June 12, 2025 • 25 mins
On this eye-opening episode of Wake Up with Marci, we sit down with Dr. Adi Jaffe—a renowned addiction expert, author, and speaker who has lived both sides of the struggle. Once deeply entrenched in drug addiction and facing time behind bars, Dr. Jaffe turned his life around and went on to earn a Ph.D. in psychology. Now, he dedicates his life to changing the way we view and treat addiction.
Together, we dive into the powerful and personal story of his journey through darkness and into purpose. Dr. Jaffe challenges the traditional, shame-based models of recovery and introduces us to a more compassionate, individualized approach—one rooted in science, empathy, and real-life experience. Whether you're personally affected by addiction or simply want to understand it better, this episode will shift your perspective, ignite hope, and inspire healing.
Connect with Dr. Adi Jaffe;
Instagram: @dradijaffe
Twitter: @DrAdiJaffe
Facebook: @dradijaffe
LinkedIn: @dradijaffe
Follow Wake Up with Marci:
Instagram: [@wakeupwithmarci]
Facebook: [Wake Up with Marci]
Website: [www.wakeupwithmarci.com]
Don’t miss this insightful conversation that could change lives! Like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring content. 💡💬
Together, we dive into the powerful and personal story of his journey through darkness and into purpose. Dr. Jaffe challenges the traditional, shame-based models of recovery and introduces us to a more compassionate, individualized approach—one rooted in science, empathy, and real-life experience. Whether you're personally affected by addiction or simply want to understand it better, this episode will shift your perspective, ignite hope, and inspire healing.
Connect with Dr. Adi Jaffe;
Instagram: @dradijaffe
Twitter: @DrAdiJaffe
Facebook: @dradijaffe
LinkedIn: @dradijaffe
Follow Wake Up with Marci:
Instagram: [@wakeupwithmarci]
Facebook: [Wake Up with Marci]
Website: [www.wakeupwithmarci.com]
Don’t miss this insightful conversation that could change lives! Like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring content. 💡💬
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
self discovery. I'm your host, Marsey Hopkins, and this is
the space where we get real about life transformation and
finding our true selves. Welcome back to wake Up with Marcy,
where real conversations spark real transformation. I'm your host, Marsey Hopkins,
(00:22):
and today we're diving deep into healing, self discovery and
breaking free from the labels in shame that so many
of us carry. Joining me is doctor Addie Jaffey, a
world renowned expert on addiction, mental health, and relationships. Once
facing addiction in prison time, doctor Jeffy completely transformed his life.
(00:44):
He went on to earn his PhD from UCLA, founded
Ignited Recovery, and is the author of the best selling
book Unhooked for Yourself from Addiction Forever. He's made it
his life's mission to destigmati addiction and educate not only
those suffering, but also their families. Whether you're personally facing challenges,
(01:08):
supporting a loved one, or simply on your own journey
of wellness and self discovery, today's conversation will bring hope, perspective,
and practical tools that you can use.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So let's dive in. Welcome to the show, doctor Addie.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Thank you so much, Marcie.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
All right, so you came from a good background, Yeah,
and then you got into some trouble and you literally
had a swat team break down your door.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So why didn't you take us back to Yeah? Why
what happened? How did you get yourself there?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Because people think that you come from a really bad background,
that's why you're going to start having these problems.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
With alcohol or drugs or such. And that was not
your case.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, and exactly.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
And even if you come from a better family, I'll say,
but you know better, I'll put in air quotes.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
But they expect that there must.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Have been, you know, abuse, there must have been something
really terrible under the surface, and there wasn't in my family.
I mean, look, my mom and my dad almost got divorced.
My dad left for a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You know. That was probably that.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
And the big move from I was born in Israel,
the big move from Israel to the United States were
probably the two most traumatic things in my life. But
the bottom line is between personality and taking things really
really really internalizing my own lack of what I would
call perfectionism and adequacy in my own mind, my dad
being a really high achiever and setting really high standards
(02:41):
that I felt like I was failing at regularly. But
then also, as I mentioned, a move, we had a
big move right into high school from Israel to the US,
totally different culture. I spoke the language and not well,
you know, there were things of that nature. But what
I talk about, and I think this is important in
the context of the book, is people think addiction is
this disease that you have a genetic predisposition for that,
(03:03):
you know, because so it runs in your family or
you you have a proclivity to fall into it from
an early age. What I found, having worked with thousands
of people at this point, is there are definitely streams
of connectivity. There are connected you know, themes between people
who struggle with addiction, but they're actually primarily more about
the internal struggle, the strife, the lack of adequacy, feeling
(03:27):
less than judging yourself against others than they really are
about the background.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And I think that's important for people to hear.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
That's why wealthy families mid you know, you know, kind
of like upper middle class, middle class families, and people
that come from abject poverty can all struggle with the
same issue. Is because the drugs the behavior is used
to cope. In my situation, it was primarily used to
cope with social anxiety and again, low feelings of self worth.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yes, so what happened when that's what team came in?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Like, why did that happen? And what was going through
your head?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah? I opened the book with the story of how
the SWAT team came in, and so I won't belabor
the point of the actual experience, but you know, the
short of it is, I was a little disenfranchised from
the culture and the family that I grew up in,
and that was self inflicted, right, that wasn't by their doing.
(04:28):
I felt like I didn't belong so I literally moved
to the other side of the country. My family was
in New York, upstate New York, and I moved out
to California.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
So I was separated.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
I was isolated from them, and in that context, my
drug use escalated and escalated unchecked. It went from smoking
weed and drinking like the vast majority of kids in
high school, into harder drugs after a breakup and depression,
and it got to meth. The last five six years
of my youth were pretty heavily involved in meth. I
was using a lot of drugs that cost a lot
(04:58):
of money. I didn't have money to use them many
of the drugs, so I started selling the drugs. And
I actually four total arrests.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
That swat team arrest was just the last one, and
they escalated right.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
It was like a traffic stop where I ended up
spending a night in jail, then another stop with more
drugs where I spent a weekend in jail. This time,
what ended up happening is somebody must.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Have given my name.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
I ended up getting in a car accident and a
motorcycle accident actually and broke my leg.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
But they also found a half a.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Pound of cocaine on me in that accident, and that
told them I was more than just a user. For
three months or so, they tried to get me to
give them other names. I wouldn't do it, so eight
o'clock in the morning they paid me the courtesy of
that swat team arrest.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
You asked what was I thinking.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
At the time, and really, honestly, the main thing that
I was thinking is I was pretty sure my way
of living up until that.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Point was done.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I had no idea what that meant, because I didn't
know any other way to live.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
But it was very clear.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
It's kind of like the universe, God, whatever you want,
kept sending me these signals. Yep, you can't keep doing
what you're doing right, little arrest, bigger, broke your leg
in a wheelchair. Now the Swath team is in your house.
It was all moving in one very clear direction. So
I knew I had to do something. Still no idea
what that was, but I knew I could change.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So there's a couple of things I want to unpack here.
And you know, I'm almost ten years sober, and I
like what you're saying. The universe kept giving you these
potential stopgates, like hey, maybe you want to like stop
what you're doing right and rethink. But I needed a
major consequence, and for me, that ended up being a
(06:34):
dui and almost losing my family, but understanding that I
did have addiction to my family, but I was coping.
I was coping with a lot of difficulty from my past.
So you knew that you needed to make a change,
And so how did that change start for you? And
(06:57):
you know, there's a lot of people out there that
maybe they're not going through the same things that we've
gone through, but they're recognizing, like, this is not beneficial
to my life, right, there's maybe some difficulties in the
relationships or work. So how can we start shifting and
(07:19):
thinking in a way that, Okay, I need to make
this change and I don't want something terrible to happen
in my life. So what can we start doing? How
can we start looking at this?
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Yeah, you know I write in the book that that
back against the.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Wall moment for you is the UI. For me, it
was a swat team arrest.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Are oftentimes the things that help us understand that there's
got to be a new path forward because we can't
head back our literally our backs against the wall, right,
we're stuck. What that is There's a lot of leeway around.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Right, So it doesn't have to be catastrophic, but.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
It does have to be a moment where you are
willing to consider that maybe the perception perspective you have
in the world I talk about that that's a whole
chapter in the book is wrong and you need to
allow a new perspective. So I'll give you my version
really quickly.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
So for me, I got arrested, I had a gun
next to me and everything like that. So I had
almost a million dollar bail. I was put in jail
because of my broken leg. They put me in the
hospital ward of the jail. It was decrepit and dirty,
and you know people that had jumped out of windows
and broken ankles and people that got shot at. We
were all in one big cell and I was coming
(08:29):
off of drug. So I actually slept for almost that
whole week, waking up to eat, sleeping on and off.
I waited about a week to get out because my
bill was so high. I didn't even want my family
to post it. I wanted to go in front of court.
So once I was done with that five days somewhat detox,
my lawyer said to me said, look, if you show
up like this to court, you keep showing up like this,
(08:50):
you're gonna end up doing ten, fifteen, twenty years in prison.
We'll fight the case, but the way you look and
with what they just found at your house, you're gonna
go away for a long time. I need you to
go to rehab and clean up, because if you don't
clean up, we're going to have a losing case. So
what my lawyer was so genius at and I think
I actually talked about this directly in the book. Is
He didn't tell me, Look, you're addicted to drugs. Your
(09:11):
life's going to go nowhere. You really need to do
something about this. He took something I cared about. I
wanted to fight this case. I didn't want to spend
fifteen to twenty years in prison. He said, if you
don't want that, you got to do this. Oftentimes we
forget because we see people drinking, we see them using drugs,
we see them engaging behavior that is.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Not helpful for them.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
We see the outcome, we know where we think they
need to go, and we want to move them in
that direction. We want to say, look, you're drinking too much.
Stop drinking. Your life will get better. But that's not
the way they understand it. That's not the way they
see it. They wake up full of anxiety, fear, self doubting,
levels of stress, shame exactly. And so the drinking actually
(09:49):
helps them. And you're looking at them saying, hey, if
you stop taking your medicine, everything will get better.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
They say, you're crazy. You don't understand me.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
He targeted the part that he knew.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I cared about.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
I didn't want to spend fifteen twenty years in prison.
He targeted that well, because I'm sure Marci, before you
got that DUI, you knew things weren't You weren't firing
on all cylinders.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
You knew things weren't working.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Well, it's just you weren't in a place where giving
up drinking was the Anglararifi.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, it's all I knew, and I was very much
a victim, and I didn't know how to not drink,
and I was putting everything off on my husband just
basically like you don't.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Know how to have fun.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And you know, so even though I knew that things
weren't good, and I came from an alcoholic mother and
I knew what it looked like, but I kept comparing
myself and I wasn't passing out every night, So you
know that that kept me continuing and on this path
(10:59):
even though you know what your gut you've been you
think about it for quite some time.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
And oftentimes decades. Yeah, yeah, long time.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Exactly exactly. And you know, for women, it's really really
hard because we have where the caretakers. We're afraid to
admit that. There's so much shame around it right to
admit that we have a problem. We think our husband's
going to leave us, the kids are gonna they're going
to take the kids. That everyone in the community or
(11:31):
wherever we are, whatever we're doing in life, we're going
to be judged.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
How do we if we are working and we're moms, Like,
how how do we get sober? How do we take
care of ourselves?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I don't know it. It just feels a lot a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Of times that that women struggle more because of the
shame around it, and we don't feel that we can
leave our situation if in fact we needed to go
two rehab.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Right, So for men, it might be I've got to
keep showing up to my job. I've got to keep
doing keeping a roof over the family's head. You're saying,
for women, it's the parenting, the taking care of the household,
et cetera, is oftentimes such a big undertaking.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Look, I mean, here's the interesting thing. There are a
ton of reasons. I mean, I talk about this again
in the book. There are a lot of logistical reasons
why getting help is hard. That's actually the good news,
and why if you seek help sooner, the help is
easier to get and it takes less time.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
The only reason some people end up having to go
to rehab is because they've been struggling for fifteen years
and they literally can't not drink for a day, so
they need a place for twenty thirty sixty days to
just rebalance. If you can handle this ten years earlier,
you probably don't need a rehab, right, Just some therapy,
reading a book, doing some groups will probably be enough
for you. And I think that's a big part of
(12:53):
the message for me in the book is if we
remove the stigma in the shame around you struggle with alcohol,
being you are an alcoholic earlier on in the process,
if some of us just sat down and said, wait,
why am I drinking every day when I get back
from work? Oh, let me break it down. It's because
of a B and C. Okay, Well, that I can
(13:14):
do something about that. I can figure out a way
to reduce my stress at work. I can go to
couple's therapy with my wife. Right, how many people do
you know who drink heavily because they're in an unhappy marriage. Yeah,
and when they get home they have to sit next
to a stranger or somebody who even is worse than
a stranger, right, is making them feel badly about themselves,
(13:35):
and in order to do that, they just have a
couple of drinks so that they don't care as much. Well,
it doesn't seem like that big of a deal early on,
because it does help you get along better ten to
fifteen years later, You've now been in a bad relationship
for fifteen years with no help. The drinking certainly didn't
make the relationship better, and now you need to drink
more in order to deal with your marriage. So the
(13:56):
issues are always there at the outset.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well. And I'll also say that.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Because I was so wounded from my past and then
I was drinking a lot, my relationship was really bad
because of my drinking and the way that I was
responding and reacting to life. And I will say that
we have ten years later. I mean, I never thought
(14:23):
about growing old with him because I didn't know what
that looked like. And today we have the best relationship possible.
So I am so grateful for recovery and then the
healing that comes after it. Right, it's not just about
putting down the drink. It's all the things that you're
talking about that we need to heal from and building
(14:44):
on that confidence and self love and self awareness. And
so let's talk about, Well, you have your program that
you've created and you talk about, you know, getting really
radically honest, and I love that.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So what do you offer through your recovery model?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
So in the book, I I kind of split up
the book into two parts. One the one that explains
why we struggle the way we struggle. The second one
I really wanted to give tangible steps for people to
follow in order to move forward. So a big part
of it is something I call the sparrow loop, and
that is something that I just want people to.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
The sparrow loop.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah, s P A r O so stimulus, perception, activation,
response outcome. And I'll explain why all those stages in
a second. But the idea was, you know, people are
so scared of things they don't understand. So even when
we're in the throes of drinking or drug use or
any addictive behavior, eating, binge, eating, everybody, wait, you know this,
(15:51):
everybody wakes up in the morning saying today, I'm I'm
gonna go beat it today to ourselves. Today, I don't
need this right, I'm gonna beat my addiction.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Today. Today, I'm not going to drink today, I'm not
going to use drugs today.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I'm not going to look at porn today, I'm not
going to eat a box of pizza.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Whatever it is.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
And then by nine am noon, three pm, seven pm midnight,
whatever it is for.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
You, you're back in it again. If we don't.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Understand why we're doing what we're doing, it's even more terrifying, right,
more shame. So the first thing is to just explain
to ourselves.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Why we do things.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Stimulus is a thing that sets the behavior in motion.
Perception is the way in which you process the stimulus.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I'll explain more about that.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Once you process the stimulus a certain way and it
creates an activation physiologically and psychologically, you have feelings somatic
like in your body or cognitive in your head. Those
feelings are the things you're trying to deal with through
the response. The response for any of us is the overeating,
the drinking, and the stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Right, the behavior that we're in trouble with.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
You drink, you overeat, you binge, you start really feeling
really sick, or you drink until you black out.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
That's the outcome.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Most people don't come for anything, but the outcome, they
just come because crap happened that they are unhappy with,
and they want to dui for you and arrest for me.
A blackout when you ended up waking up with somebody
you didn't know in bed next to you, whatever, you know,
using porn so much that your wife found it and
is now mad.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
At you and is threatening divorce.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Whatever it is, the outcome is what people care about.
But because the behavior came right before the outcome. You drank,
you blacked out, you overate, you threw up, you use
some meth and got arrested, we think the thing to
focus on is the behavior. But what I explained is
if you remove the behavior, all the coping that came before,
it still needs a place to go and you now
(17:36):
have no way of dealing with it. And so that's
why we get caught in the cycle. You stop drinking,
but then the stress and the anxiety build up. Well,
you don't have new coping strategies to deal with it,
so you at some point you say, well forget about it,
I'm going to go back to having a drink. And
that cycle is why so many of us fail.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
So number one is just explain what it is that
that that.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Goes on for all of you and then the next piece,
and that's I call it eat, the explore, ex transform cycle.
Once that outcome happens, a lot of people in our situation.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Get really afraid of failure.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
And I think that that's explained by what we talked
about earlier, right, self judgment, deprecation, feeling less than. It's
such a big part of the problem that when you fail,
you get the blackout, the dui that you throw up,
whatever it is, you feel once again like your self.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Image has been reinforced.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
But one thing that I've learned now being in this
field fifteen sixteen years is those failures are actually opportunities.
When things don't work out the way you want them to,
it's the.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Time to stop.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Understand why that's explore, sit with it, and accept it.
That's sitting with discomfort, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, understanding you're
not perfect, but you're also not broken, right, You're just
you're human, and so acceptance, explore, accept, and then once
you've finished that acceptance piece, transform. Okay, drinking doesn't lead
(18:57):
to the outcomes I want. When I feel anxious in stress,
I need something else. But I don't know what that is.
Transformation is about going out there and seeking it. So
I call it like a scavenger hunt. What can deliver
the outcome that I want? And so it's this loop
that I have people go through, and every time it
works out that we want too, we celebrate. Right, you
had a sober night, you did well, you drank the
(19:17):
two drinks you wanted to. But every time it goes
off the rails, it's time to get to work. And
that's different than what most of us do, which is
every time things go off the rails, we try to
sweep it under the rug, move forward, put on a
you know, stiff upper lip, smile through it, and.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Try to get to the other side.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
So that's the overarching idea behind the book is understand
why you act the way you act, accept what got
you to this place, but then go change it.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah. Well, like for me, I mean I have well,
I have a huge toolbox, and then for me, a
lot of it was gratitude, forgiveness and shifting my.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Energy from you know, like living in attitude is a
way of being a magnet to a beautiful life.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Right, every person listening to this right now, if they're
looking for their own path. You'll discover your own toolbox.
There are things that have worked for many many people.
Gratitude is one of the things I bring to most
of my clients right off the bat.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Because it's super easy to do. You can get it
done in five minutes a day.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
And you know, the irony is most of my clients,
if I ask them for three things they're grateful for,
they'll sit there and think.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
For a little while. Whereas once you've.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Been in once you've been in practice at this. I've
been doing this for about let's say a decade now, Yeah,
there are thousands of things I can.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Be Yeah, people have people think it's got to be
something big. It's like the car in the driveway or
the house you're living in.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
It's not about that, right.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Clean water, a roof over your head, clean air, to
be shoes that fit you. I mean, you know you breathe,
you're breathing right now, right, Yeah, I mean, like, the
number of things you have to be grateful for or
you can be grateful for is nearly endless. And the
good news, as you just point out, and this is
(21:08):
just one tool we're talking about right now. It reformulates
the way you look at the world, because once you start,
I call it, it's like these flags of gratitude that
pop up all over the world as you walk around.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And that's the real benefit.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
All Right, somebody's sitting there and they're listening and they're like, God,
my life right now. I mean, I don't know how
I can look at anything and be grateful.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I can't wait to have my next drink.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Or whatever it is. Where are they turning? What is
a first step they can make? And then tell us
a bit about your book, because unhooked, I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
That there's an answer for you.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
But yeah, yeah, So first of all, start small, number one.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Start small. Too many people they try to hit it
out the park, right off the boat. Right.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
So, if you've been drinking for fifteen years, first of all,
it could be literally medically dangerous or you to just
stop drinking without medical supervision. So don't get some support.
And that's support sounds dangerous or risky for a lot
of people because normally support only came when we screwed up.
Support only came when we failed and other people made
us accountable. The kind of accountability I'm talking about is different.
(22:17):
It's reaching out to people that you trust and love
and say, Okay, I don't want to live this way anymore.
I'm willing to start considering some change. Let's start working.
So that's number one. Find a comfortable environment to do
that in a lot of people try to do it alone.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Shame is a huge player in that.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I say, just find it doesn't matter what group, it
doesn't matter who is part of that.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Find a group of people. You can do it.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
It helps a ton to be able to do that.
And then a couple of quick tips from the book.
Number one, this is hard, but you want the fastest route,
stop lying, stop lying to yourself, and stop lying to
other people. Radical transparency will be really, really uncomfortable for
a short period of time. It will be your quickest
path to get where you're going. And that brings me
(23:02):
to the second part of this, which is in order
to get better in life, and I'm not talking about recovery,
I'm talking about life in general. You have to get
comfortable being uncomfortable, and that is something you have to
train yourself in because, and I'm no judgment I did
this for fifteen years of my own life. One of
the reasons we use so much is to escape discomfort.
(23:23):
Escaping discomfort is the most sure way to bring destruction
into your life. You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.
So those are kind of the big pieces. Stop lying,
get some accountability and support with a group of people.
It could just be one person for now that you
trust and has your best interest at heart, and then
start getting comfortable being uncomfortable. You mentioned the book, and
on our last couple of minutes here I have a
(23:43):
website called read unhooked dot com. You can look at
a bunch of little pieces there when you buy the book.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
We also have resources.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
On the web page in order to support you with
additional work on top of the book. But this book
is my way of trying to give people something really,
really actionable. And we've heard from a lot of the
readers saying, the first half got me to understand why
I'm struggling. The second half gave me the actual tools
to do something about it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
And that's it, right, And this is what you talk
about getting educated, right. We need to be educated those
that are involved. I mean, it's a family sickness, so
we all need to get educated, and we all play
different roles, and then we need to use the tools.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
We need to learn them and use them.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I always got to use the tool right. Just learning
about the tools is not going to help you all
that much.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You've got to take the action, and that's so so important.
So I'm so grateful that you joined us today.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Thank you for.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Being here sharing your story, and you know just all
that you do. No matter where you are in your journey,
it's never too late to wake up and rewrite your story.
I will see you next week, and thank you again,
doctor Jeffy for being here.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Thank you, Marci, thank you everybody.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Bye bye,
Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
self discovery. I'm your host, Marsey Hopkins, and this is
the space where we get real about life transformation and
finding our true selves. Welcome back to wake Up with Marcy,
where real conversations spark real transformation. I'm your host, Marsey Hopkins,
(00:22):
and today we're diving deep into healing, self discovery and
breaking free from the labels in shame that so many
of us carry. Joining me is doctor Addie Jaffey, a
world renowned expert on addiction, mental health, and relationships. Once
facing addiction in prison time, doctor Jeffy completely transformed his life.
(00:44):
He went on to earn his PhD from UCLA, founded
Ignited Recovery, and is the author of the best selling
book Unhooked for Yourself from Addiction Forever. He's made it
his life's mission to destigmati addiction and educate not only
those suffering, but also their families. Whether you're personally facing challenges,
(01:08):
supporting a loved one, or simply on your own journey
of wellness and self discovery, today's conversation will bring hope, perspective,
and practical tools that you can use.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So let's dive in. Welcome to the show, doctor Addie.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Thank you so much, Marcie.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
All right, so you came from a good background, Yeah,
and then you got into some trouble and you literally
had a swat team break down your door.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So why didn't you take us back to Yeah? Why
what happened? How did you get yourself there?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Because people think that you come from a really bad background,
that's why you're going to start having these problems.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
With alcohol or drugs or such. And that was not
your case.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, and exactly.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
And even if you come from a better family, I'll say,
but you know better, I'll put in air quotes.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
But they expect that there must.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Have been, you know, abuse, there must have been something
really terrible under the surface, and there wasn't in my family.
I mean, look, my mom and my dad almost got divorced.
My dad left for a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You know. That was probably that.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
And the big move from I was born in Israel,
the big move from Israel to the United States were
probably the two most traumatic things in my life. But
the bottom line is between personality and taking things really
really really internalizing my own lack of what I would
call perfectionism and adequacy in my own mind, my dad
being a really high achiever and setting really high standards
(02:41):
that I felt like I was failing at regularly. But
then also, as I mentioned, a move, we had a
big move right into high school from Israel to the US,
totally different culture. I spoke the language and not well,
you know, there were things of that nature. But what
I talk about, and I think this is important in
the context of the book, is people think addiction is
this disease that you have a genetic predisposition for that,
(03:03):
you know, because so it runs in your family or
you you have a proclivity to fall into it from
an early age. What I found, having worked with thousands
of people at this point, is there are definitely streams
of connectivity. There are connected you know, themes between people
who struggle with addiction, but they're actually primarily more about
the internal struggle, the strife, the lack of adequacy, feeling
(03:27):
less than judging yourself against others than they really are
about the background.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And I think that's important for people to hear.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
That's why wealthy families mid you know, you know, kind
of like upper middle class, middle class families, and people
that come from abject poverty can all struggle with the
same issue. Is because the drugs the behavior is used
to cope. In my situation, it was primarily used to
cope with social anxiety and again, low feelings of self worth.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yes, so what happened when that's what team came in?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Like, why did that happen? And what was going through
your head?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah? I opened the book with the story of how
the SWAT team came in, and so I won't belabor
the point of the actual experience, but you know, the
short of it is, I was a little disenfranchised from
the culture and the family that I grew up in,
and that was self inflicted, right, that wasn't by their doing.
(04:28):
I felt like I didn't belong so I literally moved
to the other side of the country. My family was
in New York, upstate New York, and I moved out
to California.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
So I was separated.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
I was isolated from them, and in that context, my
drug use escalated and escalated unchecked. It went from smoking
weed and drinking like the vast majority of kids in
high school, into harder drugs after a breakup and depression,
and it got to meth. The last five six years
of my youth were pretty heavily involved in meth. I
was using a lot of drugs that cost a lot
(04:58):
of money. I didn't have money to use them many
of the drugs, so I started selling the drugs. And
I actually four total arrests.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
That swat team arrest was just the last one, and
they escalated right.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
It was like a traffic stop where I ended up
spending a night in jail, then another stop with more
drugs where I spent a weekend in jail. This time,
what ended up happening is somebody must.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Have given my name.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
I ended up getting in a car accident and a
motorcycle accident actually and broke my leg.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
But they also found a half a.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Pound of cocaine on me in that accident, and that
told them I was more than just a user. For
three months or so, they tried to get me to
give them other names. I wouldn't do it, so eight
o'clock in the morning they paid me the courtesy of
that swat team arrest.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
You asked what was I thinking.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
At the time, and really, honestly, the main thing that
I was thinking is I was pretty sure my way
of living up until that.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Point was done.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I had no idea what that meant, because I didn't
know any other way to live.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
But it was very clear.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
It's kind of like the universe, God, whatever you want,
kept sending me these signals. Yep, you can't keep doing
what you're doing right, little arrest, bigger, broke your leg
in a wheelchair. Now the Swath team is in your house.
It was all moving in one very clear direction. So
I knew I had to do something. Still no idea
what that was, but I knew I could change.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So there's a couple of things I want to unpack here.
And you know, I'm almost ten years sober, and I
like what you're saying. The universe kept giving you these
potential stopgates, like hey, maybe you want to like stop
what you're doing right and rethink. But I needed a
major consequence, and for me, that ended up being a
(06:34):
dui and almost losing my family, but understanding that I
did have addiction to my family, but I was coping.
I was coping with a lot of difficulty from my past.
So you knew that you needed to make a change,
And so how did that change start for you? And
(06:57):
you know, there's a lot of people out there that
maybe they're not going through the same things that we've
gone through, but they're recognizing, like, this is not beneficial
to my life, right, there's maybe some difficulties in the
relationships or work. So how can we start shifting and
(07:19):
thinking in a way that, Okay, I need to make
this change and I don't want something terrible to happen
in my life. So what can we start doing? How
can we start looking at this?
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Yeah, you know I write in the book that that
back against the.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Wall moment for you is the UI. For me, it
was a swat team arrest.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Are oftentimes the things that help us understand that there's
got to be a new path forward because we can't
head back our literally our backs against the wall, right,
we're stuck. What that is There's a lot of leeway around.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Right, So it doesn't have to be catastrophic, but.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
It does have to be a moment where you are
willing to consider that maybe the perception perspective you have
in the world I talk about that that's a whole
chapter in the book is wrong and you need to
allow a new perspective. So I'll give you my version
really quickly.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
So for me, I got arrested, I had a gun
next to me and everything like that. So I had
almost a million dollar bail. I was put in jail
because of my broken leg. They put me in the
hospital ward of the jail. It was decrepit and dirty,
and you know people that had jumped out of windows
and broken ankles and people that got shot at. We
were all in one big cell and I was coming
(08:29):
off of drug. So I actually slept for almost that
whole week, waking up to eat, sleeping on and off.
I waited about a week to get out because my
bill was so high. I didn't even want my family
to post it. I wanted to go in front of court.
So once I was done with that five days somewhat detox,
my lawyer said to me said, look, if you show
up like this to court, you keep showing up like this,
(08:50):
you're gonna end up doing ten, fifteen, twenty years in prison.
We'll fight the case, but the way you look and
with what they just found at your house, you're gonna
go away for a long time. I need you to
go to rehab and clean up, because if you don't
clean up, we're going to have a losing case. So
what my lawyer was so genius at and I think
I actually talked about this directly in the book. Is
He didn't tell me, Look, you're addicted to drugs. Your
(09:11):
life's going to go nowhere. You really need to do
something about this. He took something I cared about. I
wanted to fight this case. I didn't want to spend
fifteen to twenty years in prison. He said, if you
don't want that, you got to do this. Oftentimes we
forget because we see people drinking, we see them using drugs,
we see them engaging behavior that is.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Not helpful for them.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
We see the outcome, we know where we think they
need to go, and we want to move them in
that direction. We want to say, look, you're drinking too much.
Stop drinking. Your life will get better. But that's not
the way they understand it. That's not the way they
see it. They wake up full of anxiety, fear, self doubting,
levels of stress, shame exactly. And so the drinking actually
(09:49):
helps them. And you're looking at them saying, hey, if
you stop taking your medicine, everything will get better.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
They say, you're crazy. You don't understand me.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
He targeted the part that he knew.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I cared about.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
I didn't want to spend fifteen twenty years in prison.
He targeted that well, because I'm sure Marci, before you
got that DUI, you knew things weren't You weren't firing
on all cylinders.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
You knew things weren't working.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Well, it's just you weren't in a place where giving
up drinking was the Anglararifi.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, it's all I knew, and I was very much
a victim, and I didn't know how to not drink,
and I was putting everything off on my husband just
basically like you don't.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Know how to have fun.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And you know, so even though I knew that things
weren't good, and I came from an alcoholic mother and
I knew what it looked like, but I kept comparing
myself and I wasn't passing out every night, So you
know that that kept me continuing and on this path
(10:59):
even though you know what your gut you've been you
think about it for quite some time.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
And oftentimes decades. Yeah, yeah, long time.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Exactly exactly. And you know, for women, it's really really
hard because we have where the caretakers. We're afraid to
admit that. There's so much shame around it right to
admit that we have a problem. We think our husband's
going to leave us, the kids are gonna they're going
to take the kids. That everyone in the community or
(11:31):
wherever we are, whatever we're doing in life, we're going
to be judged.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
How do we if we are working and we're moms, Like,
how how do we get sober? How do we take
care of ourselves?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I don't know it. It just feels a lot a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Of times that that women struggle more because of the
shame around it, and we don't feel that we can
leave our situation if in fact we needed to go
two rehab.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Right, So for men, it might be I've got to
keep showing up to my job. I've got to keep
doing keeping a roof over the family's head. You're saying,
for women, it's the parenting, the taking care of the household,
et cetera, is oftentimes such a big undertaking.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Look, I mean, here's the interesting thing. There are a
ton of reasons. I mean, I talk about this again
in the book. There are a lot of logistical reasons
why getting help is hard. That's actually the good news,
and why if you seek help sooner, the help is
easier to get and it takes less time.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
The only reason some people end up having to go
to rehab is because they've been struggling for fifteen years
and they literally can't not drink for a day, so
they need a place for twenty thirty sixty days to
just rebalance. If you can handle this ten years earlier,
you probably don't need a rehab, right, Just some therapy,
reading a book, doing some groups will probably be enough
for you. And I think that's a big part of
(12:53):
the message for me in the book is if we
remove the stigma in the shame around you struggle with alcohol,
being you are an alcoholic earlier on in the process,
if some of us just sat down and said, wait,
why am I drinking every day when I get back
from work? Oh, let me break it down. It's because
of a B and C. Okay, Well, that I can
(13:14):
do something about that. I can figure out a way
to reduce my stress at work. I can go to
couple's therapy with my wife. Right, how many people do
you know who drink heavily because they're in an unhappy marriage. Yeah,
and when they get home they have to sit next
to a stranger or somebody who even is worse than
a stranger, right, is making them feel badly about themselves,
(13:35):
and in order to do that, they just have a
couple of drinks so that they don't care as much. Well,
it doesn't seem like that big of a deal early on,
because it does help you get along better ten to
fifteen years later, You've now been in a bad relationship
for fifteen years with no help. The drinking certainly didn't
make the relationship better, and now you need to drink
more in order to deal with your marriage. So the
(13:56):
issues are always there at the outset.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well. And I'll also say that.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Because I was so wounded from my past and then
I was drinking a lot, my relationship was really bad
because of my drinking and the way that I was
responding and reacting to life. And I will say that
we have ten years later. I mean, I never thought
(14:23):
about growing old with him because I didn't know what
that looked like. And today we have the best relationship possible.
So I am so grateful for recovery and then the
healing that comes after it. Right, it's not just about
putting down the drink. It's all the things that you're
talking about that we need to heal from and building
(14:44):
on that confidence and self love and self awareness. And
so let's talk about, Well, you have your program that
you've created and you talk about, you know, getting really
radically honest, and I love that.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So what do you offer through your recovery model?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
So in the book, I I kind of split up
the book into two parts. One the one that explains
why we struggle the way we struggle. The second one
I really wanted to give tangible steps for people to
follow in order to move forward. So a big part
of it is something I call the sparrow loop, and
that is something that I just want people to.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
The sparrow loop.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah, s P A r O so stimulus, perception, activation,
response outcome. And I'll explain why all those stages in
a second. But the idea was, you know, people are
so scared of things they don't understand. So even when
we're in the throes of drinking or drug use or
any addictive behavior, eating, binge, eating, everybody, wait, you know this,
(15:51):
everybody wakes up in the morning saying today, I'm I'm
gonna go beat it today to ourselves. Today, I don't
need this right, I'm gonna beat my addiction.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Today. Today, I'm not going to drink today, I'm not
going to use drugs today.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I'm not going to look at porn today, I'm not
going to eat a box of pizza.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Whatever it is.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
And then by nine am noon, three pm, seven pm midnight,
whatever it is for.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
You, you're back in it again. If we don't.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Understand why we're doing what we're doing, it's even more terrifying, right,
more shame. So the first thing is to just explain
to ourselves.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Why we do things.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Stimulus is a thing that sets the behavior in motion.
Perception is the way in which you process the stimulus.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I'll explain more about that.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Once you process the stimulus a certain way and it
creates an activation physiologically and psychologically, you have feelings somatic
like in your body or cognitive in your head. Those
feelings are the things you're trying to deal with through
the response. The response for any of us is the overeating,
the drinking, and the stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Right, the behavior that we're in trouble with.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
You drink, you overeat, you binge, you start really feeling
really sick, or you drink until you black out.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
That's the outcome.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Most people don't come for anything, but the outcome, they
just come because crap happened that they are unhappy with,
and they want to dui for you and arrest for me.
A blackout when you ended up waking up with somebody
you didn't know in bed next to you, whatever, you know,
using porn so much that your wife found it and
is now mad.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
At you and is threatening divorce.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Whatever it is, the outcome is what people care about.
But because the behavior came right before the outcome. You drank,
you blacked out, you overate, you threw up, you use
some meth and got arrested, we think the thing to
focus on is the behavior. But what I explained is
if you remove the behavior, all the coping that came before,
it still needs a place to go and you now
(17:36):
have no way of dealing with it. And so that's
why we get caught in the cycle. You stop drinking,
but then the stress and the anxiety build up. Well,
you don't have new coping strategies to deal with it,
so you at some point you say, well forget about it,
I'm going to go back to having a drink. And
that cycle is why so many of us fail.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
So number one is just explain what it is that
that that.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Goes on for all of you and then the next piece,
and that's I call it eat, the explore, ex transform cycle.
Once that outcome happens, a lot of people in our situation.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Get really afraid of failure.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
And I think that that's explained by what we talked
about earlier, right, self judgment, deprecation, feeling less than. It's
such a big part of the problem that when you fail,
you get the blackout, the dui that you throw up,
whatever it is, you feel once again like your self.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Image has been reinforced.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
But one thing that I've learned now being in this
field fifteen sixteen years is those failures are actually opportunities.
When things don't work out the way you want them to,
it's the.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Time to stop.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Understand why that's explore, sit with it, and accept it.
That's sitting with discomfort, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, understanding you're
not perfect, but you're also not broken, right, You're just
you're human, and so acceptance, explore, accept, and then once
you've finished that acceptance piece, transform. Okay, drinking doesn't lead
(18:57):
to the outcomes I want. When I feel anxious in stress,
I need something else. But I don't know what that is.
Transformation is about going out there and seeking it. So
I call it like a scavenger hunt. What can deliver
the outcome that I want? And so it's this loop
that I have people go through, and every time it
works out that we want too, we celebrate. Right, you
had a sober night, you did well, you drank the
(19:17):
two drinks you wanted to. But every time it goes
off the rails, it's time to get to work. And
that's different than what most of us do, which is
every time things go off the rails, we try to
sweep it under the rug, move forward, put on a
you know, stiff upper lip, smile through it, and.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Try to get to the other side.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
So that's the overarching idea behind the book is understand
why you act the way you act, accept what got
you to this place, but then go change it.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah. Well, like for me, I mean I have well,
I have a huge toolbox, and then for me, a
lot of it was gratitude, forgiveness and shifting my.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Energy from you know, like living in attitude is a
way of being a magnet to a beautiful life.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Right, every person listening to this right now, if they're
looking for their own path. You'll discover your own toolbox.
There are things that have worked for many many people.
Gratitude is one of the things I bring to most
of my clients right off the bat.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Because it's super easy to do. You can get it
done in five minutes a day.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
And you know, the irony is most of my clients,
if I ask them for three things they're grateful for,
they'll sit there and think.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
For a little while. Whereas once you've.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Been in once you've been in practice at this. I've
been doing this for about let's say a decade now, Yeah,
there are thousands of things I can.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Be Yeah, people have people think it's got to be
something big. It's like the car in the driveway or
the house you're living in.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
It's not about that, right.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Clean water, a roof over your head, clean air, to
be shoes that fit you. I mean, you know you breathe,
you're breathing right now, right, Yeah, I mean, like, the
number of things you have to be grateful for or
you can be grateful for is nearly endless. And the
good news, as you just point out, and this is
(21:08):
just one tool we're talking about right now. It reformulates
the way you look at the world, because once you start,
I call it, it's like these flags of gratitude that
pop up all over the world as you walk around.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And that's the real benefit.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
All Right, somebody's sitting there and they're listening and they're like, God,
my life right now. I mean, I don't know how
I can look at anything and be grateful.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I can't wait to have my next drink.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Or whatever it is. Where are they turning? What is
a first step they can make? And then tell us
a bit about your book, because unhooked, I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
That there's an answer for you.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
But yeah, yeah, So first of all, start small, number one.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Start small. Too many people they try to hit it
out the park, right off the boat. Right.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
So, if you've been drinking for fifteen years, first of all,
it could be literally medically dangerous or you to just
stop drinking without medical supervision. So don't get some support.
And that's support sounds dangerous or risky for a lot
of people because normally support only came when we screwed up.
Support only came when we failed and other people made
us accountable. The kind of accountability I'm talking about is different.
(22:17):
It's reaching out to people that you trust and love
and say, Okay, I don't want to live this way anymore.
I'm willing to start considering some change. Let's start working.
So that's number one. Find a comfortable environment to do
that in a lot of people try to do it alone.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Shame is a huge player in that.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I say, just find it doesn't matter what group, it
doesn't matter who is part of that.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Find a group of people. You can do it.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
It helps a ton to be able to do that.
And then a couple of quick tips from the book.
Number one, this is hard, but you want the fastest route,
stop lying, stop lying to yourself, and stop lying to
other people. Radical transparency will be really, really uncomfortable for
a short period of time. It will be your quickest
path to get where you're going. And that brings me
(23:02):
to the second part of this, which is in order
to get better in life, and I'm not talking about recovery,
I'm talking about life in general. You have to get
comfortable being uncomfortable, and that is something you have to
train yourself in because, and I'm no judgment I did
this for fifteen years of my own life. One of
the reasons we use so much is to escape discomfort.
(23:23):
Escaping discomfort is the most sure way to bring destruction
into your life. You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.
So those are kind of the big pieces. Stop lying,
get some accountability and support with a group of people.
It could just be one person for now that you
trust and has your best interest at heart, and then
start getting comfortable being uncomfortable. You mentioned the book, and
on our last couple of minutes here I have a
(23:43):
website called read unhooked dot com. You can look at
a bunch of little pieces there when you buy the book.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
We also have resources.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
On the web page in order to support you with
additional work on top of the book. But this book
is my way of trying to give people something really,
really actionable. And we've heard from a lot of the
readers saying, the first half got me to understand why
I'm struggling. The second half gave me the actual tools
to do something about it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
And that's it, right, And this is what you talk
about getting educated, right. We need to be educated those
that are involved. I mean, it's a family sickness, so
we all need to get educated, and we all play
different roles, and then we need to use the tools.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
We need to learn them and use them.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I always got to use the tool right. Just learning
about the tools is not going to help you all
that much.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You've got to take the action, and that's so so important.
So I'm so grateful that you joined us today.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Thank you for.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Being here sharing your story, and you know just all
that you do. No matter where you are in your journey,
it's never too late to wake up and rewrite your story.
I will see you next week, and thank you again,
doctor Jeffy for being here.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Thank you, Marci, thank you everybody.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Bye bye,
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