June 19, 2025 • 24 mins
In this deeply honest episode of Wake Up With Marci, we sit down with Azadeh Atzberger—a woman whose journey through addiction, emotional trauma, and healing is both heart-wrenching and powerfully inspiring.
Azadeh opens up about the hidden drivers of her addiction—not the substances themselves, but the emotional pain, unmet childhood needs, and toxic relationship patterns that led her to self-medicate. At the heart of her story lies a truth many don’t talk about: sometimes, the one who hurts you the most is the one you crave. That’s trauma bonding—and Azadeh lived it.
She speaks openly about the shame, silence, and confusion she carried for years, and the life-changing moment when she decided to break free and choose herself.
Follow Azadeh;
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/breakfree_riseandrebuild/
Follow Wake Up with Marci:
Instagram: [@wakeupwithmarci]
Facebook: [Wake Up with Marci]
Website: [www.wakeupwithmarci.com]
Don’t miss this insightful conversation that could change lives! Like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring content. 💡💬
Azadeh opens up about the hidden drivers of her addiction—not the substances themselves, but the emotional pain, unmet childhood needs, and toxic relationship patterns that led her to self-medicate. At the heart of her story lies a truth many don’t talk about: sometimes, the one who hurts you the most is the one you crave. That’s trauma bonding—and Azadeh lived it.
She speaks openly about the shame, silence, and confusion she carried for years, and the life-changing moment when she decided to break free and choose herself.
Follow Azadeh;
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/breakfree_riseandrebuild/
Follow Wake Up with Marci:
Instagram: [@wakeupwithmarci]
Facebook: [Wake Up with Marci]
Website: [www.wakeupwithmarci.com]
Don’t miss this insightful conversation that could change lives! Like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring content. 💡💬
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
self discovery. I'm your host, Marcy Hopkins, and this is
the space where we get real about life, transformation and
finding our true selves. Welcome back to Wake Up with Marcy,
where real conversations spark real transformation. I'm your host, Marcy Hopkins,
(00:20):
and this show is a deep dive into self discovery
because healing begins when.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
We wake up to the truth of who we really are.
And today's episode is raw, honest, and so important. We're
talking about what happens when trauma goes unhealed, how it
can lead to negative coping like addiction, codependency, or emotional isolation,
(00:48):
and what it's like to lose yourself in a narcissistic relationship.
If you've ever felt unseen, unheard, manipulated, or like you're
constantly walking on eggshells, this conversation is for you. My guest.
Azeta Atsberger is a three time best selling author, trauma survivor,
(01:10):
addiction recovery expert, and the creator of the Twelve Steps
for Narcissistic Abuse Recovery. She's lived this journey and now
helps others break free from toxic cycles and reclaim their voice.
If you're searching for clarity, healing, or way out, then
stay with us. It's time to dive in. Welcome to
(01:33):
the show, Azeida.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Thank you so much Marcy for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you, it's amazing to have you so you have
lived through so much and now you're giving back. But
tell us what didn addiction look like in your life
and what was the breaking point for you that changed everything?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Thank you, Marcy.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
I I'm gonna go back to the last drink and
drug addicted to four to five substances meth pills, alcohol,
marijuana with a narcissistic boyfriend. It eventually hit the end
of that discycle when he broke a beer bottle in
(02:22):
my face. Oh god, and like windshield wipers wiping off
the blood off my face. I thought, how did I
get here on the streets, in and out of jail,
hotel rooms with this abusive man addicted to him and
(02:43):
the drugs.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It was too much. I couldn't even think about what
to undo.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
First, everything was glaring, everything was uprooted, the internal pain
and remember just getting a glimpse of my inner pain
and saying, I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I don't even know what to do?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, what did you do?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I God led me to a place called Casa del Sero,
which was twenty three years ago, which back then insurances
did not categorize alcoholism and addiction as a diagnosis that
insurance would pay. So I found a free place and
I got away from family, streets him and lived there
(03:32):
for ninety days with other addicts, trying to get sober.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
That's what I did.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, And at that time, it's just crazy. We've come
so far when it comes to mental health and addiction
and the help that's available, Thank God. But did you
have a lot of abuse or trauma growing up?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I did.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I grew up. I'm a Persian woman.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I was born in Iran to two Persian parents, and
I was born into the revolution. I was born into
a war zone, literally outside Marci. I could hear the
riots and the screaming and the yelling.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I could hear it.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
And my mom was like, it's a party, just relaxed,
but she was trying to.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Not have me. You know, I was only like five
years old.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Just yes, absolutely, she was protecting you. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
And raised by a narcissistic father and culture. Yeah, I
was this was my familiar, this was my relational template.
This is what I was attracted to, This is what
I went to.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Now you went obviously, I I get that. As far
as like going into difficult, bad relationships not knowing how
to be treated in a way that you should be treated,
I too did the same. I had a difficult upbringing
and I had a lot of difficulty in relationships and
(05:17):
knowing what good behavior was like For me, it was
just like, as long as someone was validating me and
loved me or I thought love me, I somehow was validated. Really, right,
So and you're not really being loved, you're being used
and being harmed. But it was better than nothing. It
(05:40):
was better than being alone because I didn't know how
to be alone. So when did you start with the
negative coping? And there was also other abuse that you
endured growing up? Yeah, so like I had sexual abuse,
I had abandonment, right, And so here here we are
(06:01):
these young girls and and and I feel like like
I lost that little girl. I just became like a
shell of a person just surviving, right, would you say
you were doing the same. And then and that's when
I found alcohol.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Absolutely same, Absolutely I resonate and relate to your story.
That is still the thing, Marcy that I have to
really work on is validating myself because I was groomed
for others focused not yet focused, Yeah, others focused. If
(06:43):
you like me, and if you approve of me, then
I must be doing something right.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
But then when you walk away.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Right, yeah, you're like a chameleon, like whatever you want
me to be, like, just whatever you like. I don't
even know what I like.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
So yeah, just all, I must be doing it right.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
But then, because follow me, and I hope your listeners
hear this. This is so it still rings in my ear.
And I heard this just last week. When I build
my home and someone else and they walk away, they
leave me homeless.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh my god, that's powerful.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I just did this on a podcast last week and
I can't stop thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
That really hits home. That's like, that's a great analogy
of that, right, absolutely. Yeah, So let's talk about when
you started escaping, right, Like, so we're not facing the
real problem, right, we don't even know. We just start coping.
(07:53):
So when did you start really escaping yourself with drugs
and alcohol?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
High school?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I was drinking whiskey before eight am English class, before
my English teachers, my English class, I was drinking whiskey,
and if I couldn't get whiskey, I was getting cough
medicine Robott.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Oh and are you in the United States at that time?
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Yes, yes, we moved when I was about six and
a half years old. So okay, yes, I started. I
was being bullied in high school by a girl big time,
and I was drinking and I was, oh my god.
I don't know if you ever had this experience, but
we were also doing huffing. Huffing where you are inhaling
(08:43):
paint or liquid paper.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Okay, I've heard about that, absolutely, I've heard about it.
I thought it was I may have heard it by
a different name, but yeah, yeah, yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
That's what we were doing. That's what I was doing
in high school.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I was being bullied and hit on by my English
teacher and so and so and so drinking, and then
I found meth with a bunch of girls in high school,
and then it was off, off and.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Writing right one hundred percent. Now, tell us you were
in high school, and it sounds when did you find
this narcissistic boyfriend and end up on the streets.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
This was after high school he was after high school
and I was already addicted to drugs and alcohol and
I found him. He was a drug dealer and I
found him through drug addict in those homes where we
all go and die. Yeah, that's how I found him.
(09:46):
And I remember thinking, Marci, this is not my kind
of guy. This is not something I'm attracted to. I
don't I think he's repulsive. Actually right, Yeah, roomed me in, Marcie.
He groomed me in. From that moment that he was
able to jump from the guitar to the piano to singing,
I was like, and because everybody else wanted, everybody else
(10:09):
was in awe of him, so he must be the thing.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, he was the prize, right, Like that was one
of the things Like if I could, that's like a
way I had control, Like I would entice a man
that I thought or a boy that I thought others wanted,
and if I ended up winning the boy, I won
the prize. Yeah, and when it was that person was
never really the prize. So I totally I can totally
(10:37):
relate to that. Really, So once you got out of
this program, what was it like for you to remain
did you remain sober?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
I've been sober since I was thirty years old and
I'm fifty three.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, incredible. So what has helped you to sustain that sobriety?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Support, God, the twelve Steps, recovery circles.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And just I'm not gonna lose.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
There's a fight in me. There's a fighter in me.
I'm not gonna pick up. I'm not gonna give my
power away. I rather be on the ground, like in
a fetal position, crying my guts out than pick up.
I'm not gonna do it. I'm not giving myself.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
We learned to.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Live in the disease and feel the emotions. And one
of the things that we talked we touched on was
that that self love, right, So that is what I
have found through my healing is reconnecting to that little girl,
finding the love for myself and who I am, prioritizing myself,
(11:53):
finding confidence, setting my boundaries, finding my voice right, and
living in gratitude and for me, God too, is a
huge part of remaining sober.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah. And like I was sharing with you, I'm almost
ten years sober. So let's talk about the women that
are listening, right, Maybe they're still numbing and maybe it's
not even drugs, but it's wine, it's work, it's people
pleasing food, you know, just staying on that hamster will
(12:29):
just to never face anything. What would you say to them.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
You think what you're doing is helping, You think numbing
is supporting. But if you could see the other side
of the rainbow of your true self, you would not
touch any of those things. But you've got to give
(12:55):
yourself the time and that wake up call.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Wake up with Marcy.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
You've got to give yourself that wake up call, because
here's what we don't know is that there is a
rainbow on the other side.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
It is more delicious.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It is more delicious on the other side, it is fulfilling,
it is rewarding.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
It is what we're looking for in all of these
false powers, these false gods. Yeah, but you're gonna sit
with the pain. There's gonna be pain of letting go
and grieving what you use.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
As a crutch.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
But if you sit, and if you sit and go
through the pain, you'll get to the other side of
this human being that God created that's magnificent and brilliant
and has greatness.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yes, that's greatness. You created the twelve Steps for Narcissistic
Abuse Recovery, and I know you have other books. Also,
let's talk about a narcissistic relationship because it's very confusing,
extremely damp the jane. So what are some of the
(14:02):
early signs someone may even be in one.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Somebody that literally it's stages. So the early stages is
this person is gonna show up in your life, whether
it's a girlfriend, somebody on social media, a parent, romantic.
I work with a lot of women in romantic but
a lot with girlfriends too.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It can be any anybody.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
They could be anybody.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
It could be a little lady in the in the
grocery store. But they they somehow can smell maybe for
like you and I talked about, are wound of not
being of needing that validation. They're gonna smell that wound,
and they're gonna go love it. They're gonna oint it.
They're gonna love it, and so you're gonna think, this
(14:50):
is the person that has the answer for me, or
this is my soulmate. So they show up super fast,
super intense, and very intoxicating.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, but it feels magical because it's like.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
In the beginning.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
In the beginning, those things that they loved about you.
Slowly they turn on you. Those things that they loved
about you. Now they can't stand and that confusion and
that cognitive dissonance is going to make you work harder
and overfunction and overdo to go back to that original stage.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
So early stages, Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Now. They always make you feel wrong, right, they make
you feel exactly something, they turn it back on you.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yes, And that's the emotional abuse, the emotional manipulation that
they make you feel like you did something wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
It's your fault. It's always your fault.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And so you're always because you're in emotional pain. You
want to go back, you want to fix it, you
want to go back. Let's what do I need to do?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
What do I?
Speaker 4 (15:59):
And so you were function and your overfunction.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Now they have they have you all of you.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, yeah, like you love me so much? Why don't
you love me anymore? What did I do?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Why is it so hard to leave or even recognize
that this is abuse?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Because the thing called trauma bond A trauma bond is
is the addiction to a human being, and they create
that create addiction because in the beginning, there's just like
a drug there they feel so good and loving and
soft and safe and beautiful and magical, and then when
(16:40):
it turns on you, when they turn on you, then
you are now becoming addicted to them, and now everything
in you that you needed for yourself is in their
hands and in their power, and you can't leave.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
You just can't leave.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
No, no, you do, you completely lose yourself? Really, you do?
You do? Would you say that addiction and narcissism, Like
maybe you didn't even have a problem, but then you
start self medicating when you're in a relationship like this.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I work with women that come to me after nine, ten,
twelve years of sobriety relapse because of the relationship, and
that's what's so undiagnosed. There's a huge link that I'm
starting to do more work and research on. There's a
huge link between relapse and relational trauma. And so they
(17:41):
either pick up or they relapse. Why because the mental
anguish and the emotional dependency and pain. They're in constant
pain and don't understand because they've been groomed to think
it's their fault. So they need something to numb out,
They need something to come back to life needs it,
but they don't understand it.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
They don't see it.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So how do you leave a narcissist?
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Yeah, strategically, strategic.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I feel like they wouldn't let you leave.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
No, they wouldn't, and in fact, in fact, they escalate
their abuse when they find out that you're leaving.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
So you have to do it strategically. You take a
step back.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
This is I'm gonna say it in a super fast way.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
There's so much more in depth.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
But you start to work with someone that you that
teaches you and guides you to strategically plan a life
on the side, whether it's like give cards, money, something
where they can't trace. Now I'm talking right now, only romantic.
There's other approaches with other like boss girlfriends, tribes that
(18:52):
are all you know. So you strategically leave, build a
life on the side. This is for the romantic one.
You build a life on the side. So when you leave,
its smooth. You get the support, you get the money,
you get the strength. But by leaving out of anger
and rage, you're.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Going to go back.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
It doesn't work. You have to do it strategically and
know what you're facing.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Have a plan, have a plan. Yeah, yeah, and like
you're talking about, like have those money cards on the
side and instead of putting money to the side, so
they don't know and you have money and you're not
just leaving like you're saying in anger. So like for you,
your life looks so different now, right, and you know
(19:42):
you're helping others. You've gotten out of it, you've lived it,
you're now like helping others. So what's possible for others
on the other side of addiction and trauma? Like someone
that's listening that feels like they're never going to get out.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
I would say, get the support, get the friends that
will validate your truth. Don't go to therapists or counselors
or anybody that's not versed in these dynamics because they
will gaslight you into staying. And because you've lost yourself
(20:20):
so much that you're going to think you should believe
a therapist or a doctor when they don't even know
what these dynamics are, right, So find the support that
is versed in these dynamics. And you're right, you can't
leave unless you have the support and the language and
(20:41):
the validation from someone that's walked out of it.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, that makes complete sense. Like you, so can you
tell us more about your book and how you're helping
through the twelve Steps of Recovery from narcissistic abuse.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Absolutely, that book.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Is literally a navigation of my own internal healing, internal wounds, internal,
it's it's all me.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
There's no AI in it. Yeah, it's all me.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
And yeah, and being in a circle of twelve step
recovery myself in multiple ones.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, with God.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
I literally sat down and created it for people that
cannot get out, can't afford therapists, can't afford whatever they
can at home, take themselves through this workbook and awaken
to whatever they're meant to awaken to. I mean literally,
(22:00):
this is therapy in a work book as best as
it can come because it does guide.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
It guides you from the beginning to the end.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
So I do give you.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That blueprint that you need to help yourself to get
through this and know it's possible. And I just want
to thank you so much for sharing your story, your
message of hope and for anyone out there, I mean,
you can do this. You can do this, and thank
you for sharing your heart and your truth. And all
(22:37):
of your information is going to be listed to below,
But just tell us what's the one place you spend
most time. Where should people go?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
You could go to Instagram or YouTube.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
I'm starting to really grow on YouTube, putting a lot
of content out there, so break free, underscore, rise and rebuild.
So literally, it's for your addiction narcissistic abuse you can
break for and my YouTube is the same.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yes, yes, fantastic. So to everyone out there listen, if
you've been struggling guilt, shame, trauma, or self doubt, I
want you to hear this that you're not alone, your
past does not defined you, and it's never too late
to start again. And Isaeta you are living proof of that.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I am thank you, Thank you, Marcy, thank you so.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Much, been beautiful. And to everyone out there, if this
episode moved you, please take a moment to like, comment, share,
or leave a review, because that's how these messages get spread.
This life changing message for others that need to hear it,
And if you want to go deeper in your healing journey,
you can always connect with me at Wakeupwithmarcy dot com.
(23:53):
And thank you all again for tuning in, listening, watching,
and we'll see you next time week. Have a great one.
Bye mm hmm
Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
self discovery. I'm your host, Marcy Hopkins, and this is
the space where we get real about life, transformation and
finding our true selves. Welcome back to Wake Up with Marcy,
where real conversations spark real transformation. I'm your host, Marcy Hopkins,
(00:20):
and this show is a deep dive into self discovery
because healing begins when.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
We wake up to the truth of who we really are.
And today's episode is raw, honest, and so important. We're
talking about what happens when trauma goes unhealed, how it
can lead to negative coping like addiction, codependency, or emotional isolation,
(00:48):
and what it's like to lose yourself in a narcissistic relationship.
If you've ever felt unseen, unheard, manipulated, or like you're
constantly walking on eggshells, this conversation is for you. My guest.
Azeta Atsberger is a three time best selling author, trauma survivor,
(01:10):
addiction recovery expert, and the creator of the Twelve Steps
for Narcissistic Abuse Recovery. She's lived this journey and now
helps others break free from toxic cycles and reclaim their voice.
If you're searching for clarity, healing, or way out, then
stay with us. It's time to dive in. Welcome to
(01:33):
the show, Azeida.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Thank you so much Marcy for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you, it's amazing to have you so you have
lived through so much and now you're giving back. But
tell us what didn addiction look like in your life
and what was the breaking point for you that changed everything?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Thank you, Marcy.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
I I'm gonna go back to the last drink and
drug addicted to four to five substances meth pills, alcohol,
marijuana with a narcissistic boyfriend. It eventually hit the end
of that discycle when he broke a beer bottle in
(02:22):
my face. Oh god, and like windshield wipers wiping off
the blood off my face. I thought, how did I
get here on the streets, in and out of jail,
hotel rooms with this abusive man addicted to him and
(02:43):
the drugs.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It was too much. I couldn't even think about what
to undo.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
First, everything was glaring, everything was uprooted, the internal pain
and remember just getting a glimpse of my inner pain
and saying, I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I don't even know what to do?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, what did you do?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I God led me to a place called Casa del Sero,
which was twenty three years ago, which back then insurances
did not categorize alcoholism and addiction as a diagnosis that
insurance would pay. So I found a free place and
I got away from family, streets him and lived there
(03:32):
for ninety days with other addicts, trying to get sober.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
That's what I did.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, And at that time, it's just crazy. We've come
so far when it comes to mental health and addiction
and the help that's available, Thank God. But did you
have a lot of abuse or trauma growing up?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I did.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I grew up. I'm a Persian woman.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I was born in Iran to two Persian parents, and
I was born into the revolution. I was born into
a war zone, literally outside Marci. I could hear the
riots and the screaming and the yelling.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I could hear it.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
And my mom was like, it's a party, just relaxed,
but she was trying to.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Not have me. You know, I was only like five
years old.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Just yes, absolutely, she was protecting you. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
And raised by a narcissistic father and culture. Yeah, I
was this was my familiar, this was my relational template.
This is what I was attracted to, This is what
I went to.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Now you went obviously, I I get that. As far
as like going into difficult, bad relationships not knowing how
to be treated in a way that you should be treated,
I too did the same. I had a difficult upbringing
and I had a lot of difficulty in relationships and
(05:17):
knowing what good behavior was like For me, it was
just like, as long as someone was validating me and
loved me or I thought love me, I somehow was validated. Really, right,
So and you're not really being loved, you're being used
and being harmed. But it was better than nothing. It
(05:40):
was better than being alone because I didn't know how
to be alone. So when did you start with the
negative coping? And there was also other abuse that you
endured growing up? Yeah, so like I had sexual abuse,
I had abandonment, right, And so here here we are
(06:01):
these young girls and and and I feel like like
I lost that little girl. I just became like a
shell of a person just surviving, right, would you say
you were doing the same. And then and that's when
I found alcohol.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Absolutely same, Absolutely I resonate and relate to your story.
That is still the thing, Marcy that I have to
really work on is validating myself because I was groomed
for others focused not yet focused, Yeah, others focused. If
(06:43):
you like me, and if you approve of me, then
I must be doing something right.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
But then when you walk away.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Right, yeah, you're like a chameleon, like whatever you want
me to be, like, just whatever you like. I don't
even know what I like.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
So yeah, just all, I must be doing it right.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
But then, because follow me, and I hope your listeners
hear this. This is so it still rings in my ear.
And I heard this just last week. When I build
my home and someone else and they walk away, they
leave me homeless.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh my god, that's powerful.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I just did this on a podcast last week and
I can't stop thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
That really hits home. That's like, that's a great analogy
of that, right, absolutely. Yeah, So let's talk about when
you started escaping, right, Like, so we're not facing the
real problem, right, we don't even know. We just start coping.
(07:53):
So when did you start really escaping yourself with drugs
and alcohol?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
High school?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I was drinking whiskey before eight am English class, before
my English teachers, my English class, I was drinking whiskey,
and if I couldn't get whiskey, I was getting cough
medicine Robott.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Oh and are you in the United States at that time?
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Yes, yes, we moved when I was about six and
a half years old. So okay, yes, I started. I
was being bullied in high school by a girl big time,
and I was drinking and I was, oh my god.
I don't know if you ever had this experience, but
we were also doing huffing. Huffing where you are inhaling
(08:43):
paint or liquid paper.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Okay, I've heard about that, absolutely, I've heard about it.
I thought it was I may have heard it by
a different name, but yeah, yeah, yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
That's what we were doing. That's what I was doing
in high school.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I was being bullied and hit on by my English
teacher and so and so and so drinking, and then
I found meth with a bunch of girls in high school,
and then it was off, off and.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Writing right one hundred percent. Now, tell us you were
in high school, and it sounds when did you find
this narcissistic boyfriend and end up on the streets.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
This was after high school he was after high school
and I was already addicted to drugs and alcohol and
I found him. He was a drug dealer and I
found him through drug addict in those homes where we
all go and die. Yeah, that's how I found him.
(09:46):
And I remember thinking, Marci, this is not my kind
of guy. This is not something I'm attracted to. I
don't I think he's repulsive. Actually right, Yeah, roomed me in, Marcie.
He groomed me in. From that moment that he was
able to jump from the guitar to the piano to singing,
I was like, and because everybody else wanted, everybody else
(10:09):
was in awe of him, so he must be the thing.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, he was the prize, right, Like that was one
of the things Like if I could, that's like a
way I had control, Like I would entice a man
that I thought or a boy that I thought others wanted,
and if I ended up winning the boy, I won
the prize. Yeah, and when it was that person was
never really the prize. So I totally I can totally
(10:37):
relate to that. Really, So once you got out of
this program, what was it like for you to remain
did you remain sober?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
I've been sober since I was thirty years old and
I'm fifty three.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, incredible. So what has helped you to sustain that sobriety?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Support, God, the twelve Steps, recovery circles.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And just I'm not gonna lose.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
There's a fight in me. There's a fighter in me.
I'm not gonna pick up. I'm not gonna give my
power away. I rather be on the ground, like in
a fetal position, crying my guts out than pick up.
I'm not gonna do it. I'm not giving myself.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
We learned to.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Live in the disease and feel the emotions. And one
of the things that we talked we touched on was
that that self love, right, So that is what I
have found through my healing is reconnecting to that little girl,
finding the love for myself and who I am, prioritizing myself,
(11:53):
finding confidence, setting my boundaries, finding my voice right, and
living in gratitude and for me, God too, is a
huge part of remaining sober.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah. And like I was sharing with you, I'm almost
ten years sober. So let's talk about the women that
are listening, right, Maybe they're still numbing and maybe it's
not even drugs, but it's wine, it's work, it's people
pleasing food, you know, just staying on that hamster will
(12:29):
just to never face anything. What would you say to them.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
You think what you're doing is helping, You think numbing
is supporting. But if you could see the other side
of the rainbow of your true self, you would not
touch any of those things. But you've got to give
(12:55):
yourself the time and that wake up call.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Wake up with Marcy.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
You've got to give yourself that wake up call, because
here's what we don't know is that there is a
rainbow on the other side.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
It is more delicious.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It is more delicious on the other side, it is fulfilling,
it is rewarding.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
It is what we're looking for in all of these
false powers, these false gods. Yeah, but you're gonna sit
with the pain. There's gonna be pain of letting go
and grieving what you use.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
As a crutch.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
But if you sit, and if you sit and go
through the pain, you'll get to the other side of
this human being that God created that's magnificent and brilliant
and has greatness.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yes, that's greatness. You created the twelve Steps for Narcissistic
Abuse Recovery, and I know you have other books. Also,
let's talk about a narcissistic relationship because it's very confusing,
extremely damp the jane. So what are some of the
(14:02):
early signs someone may even be in one.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Somebody that literally it's stages. So the early stages is
this person is gonna show up in your life, whether
it's a girlfriend, somebody on social media, a parent, romantic.
I work with a lot of women in romantic but
a lot with girlfriends too.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It can be any anybody.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
They could be anybody.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
It could be a little lady in the in the
grocery store. But they they somehow can smell maybe for
like you and I talked about, are wound of not
being of needing that validation. They're gonna smell that wound,
and they're gonna go love it. They're gonna oint it.
They're gonna love it, and so you're gonna think, this
(14:50):
is the person that has the answer for me, or
this is my soulmate. So they show up super fast,
super intense, and very intoxicating.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, but it feels magical because it's like.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
In the beginning.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
In the beginning, those things that they loved about you.
Slowly they turn on you. Those things that they loved
about you. Now they can't stand and that confusion and
that cognitive dissonance is going to make you work harder
and overfunction and overdo to go back to that original stage.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
So early stages, Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Now. They always make you feel wrong, right, they make
you feel exactly something, they turn it back on you.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yes, And that's the emotional abuse, the emotional manipulation that
they make you feel like you did something wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
It's your fault. It's always your fault.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And so you're always because you're in emotional pain. You
want to go back, you want to fix it, you
want to go back. Let's what do I need to do?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
What do I?
Speaker 4 (15:59):
And so you were function and your overfunction.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Now they have they have you all of you.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, yeah, like you love me so much? Why don't
you love me anymore? What did I do?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Why is it so hard to leave or even recognize
that this is abuse?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Because the thing called trauma bond A trauma bond is
is the addiction to a human being, and they create
that create addiction because in the beginning, there's just like
a drug there they feel so good and loving and
soft and safe and beautiful and magical, and then when
(16:40):
it turns on you, when they turn on you, then
you are now becoming addicted to them, and now everything
in you that you needed for yourself is in their
hands and in their power, and you can't leave.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
You just can't leave.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
No, no, you do, you completely lose yourself? Really, you do?
You do? Would you say that addiction and narcissism, Like
maybe you didn't even have a problem, but then you
start self medicating when you're in a relationship like this.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I work with women that come to me after nine, ten,
twelve years of sobriety relapse because of the relationship, and
that's what's so undiagnosed. There's a huge link that I'm
starting to do more work and research on. There's a
huge link between relapse and relational trauma. And so they
(17:41):
either pick up or they relapse. Why because the mental
anguish and the emotional dependency and pain. They're in constant
pain and don't understand because they've been groomed to think
it's their fault. So they need something to numb out,
They need something to come back to life needs it,
but they don't understand it.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
They don't see it.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So how do you leave a narcissist?
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Yeah, strategically, strategic.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I feel like they wouldn't let you leave.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
No, they wouldn't, and in fact, in fact, they escalate
their abuse when they find out that you're leaving.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
So you have to do it strategically. You take a
step back.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
This is I'm gonna say it in a super fast way.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
There's so much more in depth.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
But you start to work with someone that you that
teaches you and guides you to strategically plan a life
on the side, whether it's like give cards, money, something
where they can't trace. Now I'm talking right now, only romantic.
There's other approaches with other like boss girlfriends, tribes that
(18:52):
are all you know. So you strategically leave, build a
life on the side. This is for the romantic one.
You build a life on the side. So when you leave,
its smooth. You get the support, you get the money,
you get the strength. But by leaving out of anger
and rage, you're.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Going to go back.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
It doesn't work. You have to do it strategically and
know what you're facing.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Have a plan, have a plan. Yeah, yeah, and like
you're talking about, like have those money cards on the
side and instead of putting money to the side, so
they don't know and you have money and you're not
just leaving like you're saying in anger. So like for you,
your life looks so different now, right, and you know
(19:42):
you're helping others. You've gotten out of it, you've lived it,
you're now like helping others. So what's possible for others
on the other side of addiction and trauma? Like someone
that's listening that feels like they're never going to get out.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
I would say, get the support, get the friends that
will validate your truth. Don't go to therapists or counselors
or anybody that's not versed in these dynamics because they
will gaslight you into staying. And because you've lost yourself
(20:20):
so much that you're going to think you should believe
a therapist or a doctor when they don't even know
what these dynamics are, right, So find the support that
is versed in these dynamics. And you're right, you can't
leave unless you have the support and the language and
(20:41):
the validation from someone that's walked out of it.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, that makes complete sense. Like you, so can you
tell us more about your book and how you're helping
through the twelve Steps of Recovery from narcissistic abuse.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Absolutely, that book.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Is literally a navigation of my own internal healing, internal wounds, internal,
it's it's all me.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
There's no AI in it. Yeah, it's all me.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
And yeah, and being in a circle of twelve step
recovery myself in multiple ones.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, with God.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
I literally sat down and created it for people that
cannot get out, can't afford therapists, can't afford whatever they
can at home, take themselves through this workbook and awaken
to whatever they're meant to awaken to. I mean literally,
(22:00):
this is therapy in a work book as best as
it can come because it does guide.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
It guides you from the beginning to the end.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
So I do give you.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That blueprint that you need to help yourself to get
through this and know it's possible. And I just want
to thank you so much for sharing your story, your
message of hope and for anyone out there, I mean,
you can do this. You can do this, and thank
you for sharing your heart and your truth. And all
(22:37):
of your information is going to be listed to below,
But just tell us what's the one place you spend
most time. Where should people go?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
You could go to Instagram or YouTube.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
I'm starting to really grow on YouTube, putting a lot
of content out there, so break free, underscore, rise and rebuild.
So literally, it's for your addiction narcissistic abuse you can
break for and my YouTube is the same.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yes, yes, fantastic. So to everyone out there listen, if
you've been struggling guilt, shame, trauma, or self doubt, I
want you to hear this that you're not alone, your
past does not defined you, and it's never too late
to start again. And Isaeta you are living proof of that.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I am thank you, Thank you, Marcy, thank you so.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Much, been beautiful. And to everyone out there, if this
episode moved you, please take a moment to like, comment, share,
or leave a review, because that's how these messages get spread.
This life changing message for others that need to hear it,
And if you want to go deeper in your healing journey,
you can always connect with me at Wakeupwithmarcy dot com.
(23:53):
And thank you all again for tuning in, listening, watching,
and we'll see you next time week. Have a great one.
Bye mm hmm
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