July 17, 2025 • 29 mins
In this week’s episode of Wake Up with Marci, attorney Kathy Boufford joins the conversation to talk about one of life’s most challenging decisions—divorce. Kathy shares how she supports her clients in gaining clarity, confidence, and emotional strength when deciding whether to stay in or leave a marriage.
With practical tools and heartfelt guidance, Kathy empowers women to move forward with purpose and peace, no matter what they choose. A must-listen for anyone facing relationship uncertainty or supporting someone who is.
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Don’t miss this insightful conversation that could change lives! Like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring content. 💡💬
With practical tools and heartfelt guidance, Kathy empowers women to move forward with purpose and peace, no matter what they choose. A must-listen for anyone facing relationship uncertainty or supporting someone who is.
Social Media Handles:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bbesq.law/
Follow Wake Up with Marci:
Instagram: [@wakeupwithmarci]
Facebook: [Wake Up with Marci]
Website: [www.wakeupwithmarci.com]
Don’t miss this insightful conversation that could change lives! Like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring content. 💡💬
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
self discovery. I'm your host, Marty Hopkins, and this is
the space where we get real about life, transformation and
finding our true selves. Oh all, and welcome back to
Wake Up with Marcy, where we have real, raw conversations,
explore radical healing, and wake up to our worth. I'm
(00:23):
Marcy Hopkins, and I'm so grateful that you are here
with us today. We are going to be diving into
one of life's hardest but most often very transformative transitions, and.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
That is divorce.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Whether you're navigating it now, se healing, or supporting someone
going through it, this episode is for you. Divorce doesn't
just end a marriage. It can feel like it's unraveling
your identity, your future, and even.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Your self worth. But what if through the pain there's
also a path to power.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Today I'm joined by Kathy Beaufford, a seasoned family law
attorney with over thirty years of experience and the author
of Divorce Matters, a practical and empowering guide for navigating
divorce without losing yourself in the process. She has helped
countless clients move from heartbreak to healing, and she's here
(01:19):
to help us better understand what to expect, how to
protect ourselves legally and emotionally, and how to reclaim our futures.
So welcome Kathy to wake up.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, great to have you.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So wow, I mean, divorce, it's frightening, it's overwhelming, it's
a tragedy in so many.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Of our lives.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
But can you share with us one of like, what
are the biggest misconceptions that people have going into divorce?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Wow, there's a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So first, like for timeframes, people it's either one end
of the spectrum or the other. So people who have
agreements are approaching the manner amicably with their spouse, which
is always, if possible, the better way to go. They're
actually surprised at how fast the process can be. In fact,
(02:21):
in some states, including Connecticut where I work, if you
have a full agreement, it's quite possible to get divorce
and you never have to step foot in the courtroom
at all. So they're very surprised by that because they
just assume that it's going to be a long drawn
out event. On the flip side, that's a happy outcome
for them.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
On the flip side.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
There are many people who are of course, they're frustrated.
They're at the end of their marriage and they want
to be done yesterday, and they think it's going to
move quicker than it does, and they're just surprised at
how long the process takes. And one of the biggest
frustrations is that period that we call discovery process where
(03:03):
attorneys have to exchange certain financial information at a minimum
in order for us to do our due diligence to
make sure that everything kind of matches up, that nothing
there's no red flags, everything looks okay, in order to
get an idea of the financial history and be confident
that where we are in the present we're okay with
(03:25):
we know what we're talking about with the numbers, we
don't have to worry about maybe chasing anything that looks
funny or maybe something that happened in the past that
we have to deal with, and then we can move
forward and start talking about settlement with our clients and
then also negotiating it with the attorney. That process of
information gathering takes a long time, and there's a lot
(03:49):
of frustration that comes with that. So getting people, you know,
acclimated to the timeline, and there's lots of other things
that have to take place before you can reach either
an agreement.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Even in a.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Contested case, we try to reach an agreement or you
get to trial. So one of the things that I
try to explain, and I've tried to explain in the
book is to kind of take people through that process
so that they understand all the different elements and if
they can be prepared for that, then that's one frustration
that they shouldn't have to worry about because they can
(04:24):
expect it, they can plan for it. I give people
a lot of tips on how to you know, what's
probably going to be expected of them, what's going to
be asked of them, so that they can.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Start gathering that information early.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
People sometimes also, you know, they underestimate sometimes the adversity
that they may face going through divorce. I mean, some
people know well in advance that it's going to be
a hard road, but some people are either you know,
either either hopefully optimistic or they've been tricked into thinking
(04:57):
that this was going to be an easy process and
then they are surprised by there's a lot of roadblocks
that a spouse can place. And again, one of those things.
Dealing with a discovery process is not producing information or
withholding information from the other party. So again, if you
(05:18):
can kind of preemptively grab that stuff ahead of time,
that's just one more a way that the process might
be easier for you and less expensive for you because
you've kind of bypassed those roadblocks that may arise and
often arise in contentious cases.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So would these be things that you're gathering? So you've
written a book Divorce Matters, and I know that you're
helping people through the process, But is this something that
let's say you're thinking about divorce or you know, maybe
it's imminent or your husband's like maybe getting signs, or
(05:59):
is this early planning, like something that you can do
before it the papers are actually served. And then would
this help you to navigate this emotionally?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Also?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yes, yes, the book was certainly written in mind for
people looking for divorce when they're in the pre divorce stages.
There were a lot of people over the years, there
are a lot of people that had called me up,
you know, and they said they weren't ready yet or
they didn't know if they were going to get a divorce,
but they were trying to somehow get a hold of
(06:36):
what they can expect, what they might be able to
do ahead of time, to prepare. A lot of people
didn't even know this was an option to kind of
pre prepare. And sometimes when they called, if they sounded
a little ambivalent or you know it, quite frequently people
would call me and they don't even know what to ask,
but they but they but they've called me, right, they've
they've they've contacted me. So then I'd say, Okay, then
(06:59):
I'd start asking the questions, and if they felt like
they were unsure they didn't know. I found that giving
people kind of the lay of the land, like a
brief overview of what they can expect or what information
they may need to gather, things they might have to
look out for, depending on what they were telling me.
Just that little bit of information over the years over
(07:22):
the phone. You know that that safety net kind of
thing meant so much to people to be able to
just reach out and get that information.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
That information is power, right, and especially in such a difficult,
difficult time, even the thought of navigating a divorce and
moving forward with that, and especially for women that have
been in relationships for so long, I mean, their everything
has been, you know, their marriage and their children and
(07:57):
now to think that that's going to be lost. And
so many of the clients that you've had, they lose
themselves in their marriage. I mean, and that's normal. I mean,
there's so many of us that do it. I could
say that myself. So what are some of the emotional
patterns that you see as they.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Start to discover who they are?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I mean it, I would think and help me along
with this because I've not gone through divorce. I've gone
through difficult times in my marriage, but I've not gone
through divorce.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I would think.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
That that you are in such turmoil before this even starts,
and so emotionally you are navigating so many different emotions.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Through this process.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
But one of the things that you talk about is
rediscovering who you are. So how can you help someone
to start navigating all of these emotions that they are
dealing with and starting to to have to rediscover themselves
because they're no longer going to be with that person
(09:12):
that they've immersed themselves into and their lives into.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Sure, well, it's a process, like like most things, right,
So when when people first come to me, their their
emotions are very heightened and they're all over the place,
and understandably, you know, they have they have fear. They
some people have guilt, some people have regret, some people
have anger, despair.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
They come with a whole bunch of emotions.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
And although I always say I'm not a therapist, I
talk through all of that with them because what I
can offer them is, you know, some comfort knowing that
you know, we I've gone through this, This is you know,
many people have gone through this. What they're feeling is
just kind of acknowledging what they're feeling is normal is
very helpful to people, right and letting them know that,
(10:05):
you know, thousands of people have gone through this process
and they're okay, you know it's not I don't try
to sugarcoat it. I don't say it's going to be easy,
but I do tell them that there are things that
they can do to.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Make it easier.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And even knowing what the hard parts are, you know,
or what may come to be, that in and of
itself is comforting and I can and they can kind
of prepare themselves for that, so as we go through
the process, when they get that initial information, that kind
of lowers their anxiety a little bit. As we go
(10:39):
through it, We take.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Care of like some immediate.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Concerns that they have, and then we kind of start
to work on their future, their post divorce life. And
we start to talk about that early on because I
sit down and again, right now their mind is on
the here and now understandably, like.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
What's going to happen to me? What's going to happen
to me? Kids? Where am I going to live? You know?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
But we as we start to talk about what they think,
you know, their their like say like if they have kids,
We start to talk about what parenting plan might work
for them in their in their family, and it forces
them to think about, you know, and again the initial
response will be all the things that aren't going to
(11:24):
be the same. So when I talk about holidays, you know,
they think about everything that we won't be doing this,
we won't be doing that. So I break it down
and I say, well, what, you know, people usually have
certain patterns. Where do you usually spend Thanksgiving? Where would
you normally what would you normally do for for Easter?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
What would you normally do for Mother's Day?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And then we kind of take that and figure out, well,
what parts can we hang on to, you know, Obviously
it's not going to be exactly the same, but it
doesn't have to be completely different. When they talk through that,
sometimes they do want to really change something. Sometimes they
do want to do something out of the box, and
we kind of think about it in terms of, you know,
(12:04):
change doesn't have to be bad, right, So if we're
going to change something, let's do something maybe that you've
always wanted to do, or is there something that you know,
just because of tradition, you never got an opportunity to
do that you might have liked to do, or that
the kids might have liked to do. And it starts
to get them thinking about like life on the other side,
(12:26):
so to speak, and they start to think about what
they want, you know, and what the kids want as
opposed to what was what they did as a family.
So it starts to awaken, At least from my perspective,
it starts to kind of awaken.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
There's a self awareness.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
That becomes a parent and sometimes oftentimes women will vocalize
that to me, sometimes men too, but more often women
will say, wow, like I haven't thought about that in years,
or wow, I forgot that I used to have that hobby,
or gee, together with an old friends because because now
they had some downtime.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
So again, it's a mind I always say it's a
mind shift. It's it's really which you know, it's it's you.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
You have to you have that thought from within, and
it can change your entire outlook. So at first, it's
I'm not gonna see my kids, I'm not going to
have my kids this Friday, or I'm not gonna have
my kids this weekend, and it's all about boss and
it is a loss. It's it is a loss. I
don't and again I don't sugar quote things. I don't
(13:32):
say a well, don't worry about it. But again, you
can sit there and you can be upset the whole
time they're gone, and you can make yourself feel miserable,
and you can make your kids feel guilty knowingly or
unknowingly they know how you feel. Or you could say,
all right, you know they're fine, they're gonna be away
for me, they're going to have some time with with
(13:53):
with my soon to be spouse or my spouse. Now
what am I going to do with myself? So I
have time now to maybe go back to something I like.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So exactly rediscovering yourself yes, So what is a good
way to not put a lot of guilt on your
children and and talk with them through this process because
it got to be so hard.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
It is hard. It's hard.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
It's you can't mask your feelings totally right and you're
in your kids know, they know that.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
You know. Obviously different ages, no different things.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
But kids are very they're very intuitive as to what's
going on when things aren't right. So to try to
pretend that everything is fine and you know, and that
nothing will change is probably not the best idea, even
though that may seem like almost like an overprotective.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Thing to do.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
But at the same time, you just can't dump all
your emotions on your kids, even older kids. That's something
that I've through talking with a lot of family therapists
and even you know, some feedback from children themselves, as
older children sometimes tend to take the brunt of you know,
being the shoulder to Lena for their the parents think
(15:17):
that they're old enough to take to do it, and
they really aren't. They're still children. So it's like part
of my education is just reminding parents, you know, it's
okay to you have to talk to your kids, and
you have to talk to them at their different you know,
age levels, and sometimes that requires different conversations with different children, right,
(15:38):
not all together all the time, but they have to
make sure to find those boundaries. And when you have
those days that are really bad or something, you know
there's going to be a trigger coming up that's going
to make you. If you know that, you're going to
have a hard time, try to be aware of that
and try to you know, kind of separate yourself, like
(15:59):
go often do something yourself or have your you know,
we all need our pity parties, right, our own pity
perce do and it's okay, but but do it. You know,
we all have our anger times. You know, go punch
your pillow or you know, take it out, go to
the gym. Being aware is the best thing. So when
people are aware, everyone wants to be the best parent.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
So being aware is so much because then we can
make a choice and say, okay, I'm not you know,
this probably wouldn't be a good time to have a
conversation with my child or you know, but certainly don't
share share.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Things, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Sometimes again, parents have a tendency to tell children because
I think they're feeling vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
You know we're going to court.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Today or we're going to try to work something out,
you know, and it's it's not healthy for kids to
know that because then they worry, you know, and they
worry a lot. And sometimes I think people maybe do
it to try to get the spouse to agree because
they know that the kids know. There's all different kinds
of of things that our brains tell us to do.
Is and as part of it is protection self protection.
(17:04):
But we really have to take a step back when
involving your kids and try as much as possible not
to share, you know, anything with them.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
And they're truly affected.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yes yeah from family therapists will constantly say, no matter what,
you just tell the kids that everything's going to be okay.
That's what you keep telling them. Yes, we're going through
a divorce. Yes things are going to change, Yes things
might not look the same. Yes, we're going to be
angry at each other. That's all okay, you know, Yes
(17:35):
mommy's her or daddy's her. Yeah, that's fine, we're gonna
be sad once in a while, but that they're going
to be okay. That's what you need to keep telling.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Them that I love that and and make them not
feel like they're at fault in some way because of
what is happening.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Absolutely, they tend to take on kill with adults would
understand would never be the reason for the breakdown, but
children obviously internalize things differently, and they do think that,
you know, they're the center of the universe, which in
some ways they are. They actually often even older children
(18:16):
often think if I just did this better, if I
didn't do that better, or maybe if I act better now,
that they'll.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Come back together. They harbor that that hope.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
So, you know, so again you don't want to you
don't want to pretend it's not happening, because they will
fuel you know, it's like a it's like a it's
a hard balancing act because you don't want to have
them think that things are going to get better, meaning
that you'll get back together, because that's not healthy. They
need to learn that that's going to be you know,
(18:47):
they have to deal with their own loss, but it's
very important to let them know that it has absolutely
nothing to do with them, that they're still going to
be loved by both parents, that they're going to be
taking care of and everyone is going to be okay.
So that they don't have to worry about mom, they
don't have to worry about dad because they do a
lot of worrying they do.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So let's talk about negative ways that women start coping,
whether it's taking prescription medications or they start drinking excessively.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
What are some positive.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Ways to deal with this very difficult time instead of
turning to these negative ways of coping. Because listen, you're
going to have difficulties sleeping, You're going to have difficulty
navigating this. The way that you're feeling, You're distraught, right,
you feel depleted.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
You can't even imagine life on the other side.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So what are some positive ways that someone can stay
grounded and help them navigate this very difficult time.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I think with women as especially who you know, I
think women in general have time taking have a hard
time taking care of themselves and setting up boundaries.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
We do, that's what we do.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
And in fact, when things go downhill such as this,
we tend to take on more. You know, you know,
we can. We're going to fix the world. We're gonna
there's just give me enough duct.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Tape and we're going to fix it.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
And and.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
You know, like you said, even if you have to
employ means that aren't healthy. That's what they'll do. So
they will, you know, they'll they'll turn to substances, although
they'll they'll not sleep, you know, they'll burn the candle
at both ends. So really, especially with women, you've got
(20:48):
to recognize again, it comes with awareness, right, recognize it.
Stop and think if you you know, if you are
not healthy yourself, you're not going to be of any
use to anybody else. If you're overtired, if you're irritable,
it's going to make the whole process that much harder
because it takes a lot of mental stamina to get
(21:10):
through a divorce, especially even in an in an uncontented
what we call an uncontested divorce, it's still going to
take a lot of mental stamina because again, it's a
breakdown of the marriage, it's a change. You still have
to talk with your attorney, deal with the court. You
have to make decisions, you have to listen to what
the attorney is telling you, all of which is like
you know, legal jargon. And even though we try to
(21:32):
make it as easy as possible, we know it's hard.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
You know, like you're you're already because of the stress.
It's hard for you to understand and focus on things.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Especially things that are new, when you have so many working,
changing parts in your life.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
It's not just one little change, it's like a big change.
It's everything. So you actually need to be healthier. You know,
you have to be more arrested in order to and.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I tell people not only to take care of yourself,
that you could be a bit better parent because you know,
we all know your patience is tested when you're over
tired and stressed. Right, So in order to you know,
you want to you want to be there for you, you
have to be there more for your kids. You've got
to be able to have the patience to do that.
And you in order for that, you have to have
(22:20):
health and you have to have your rest.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
You don't want to have more guilt and shame through
this process.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Correct, It's like it's just a flippery slope. You know.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
You you go, you get up and you're tired, and
then you yell at the kids and then you you know,
you kick the dog.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
On your way out. Not you, Yeah, you mess up
that work.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
You know, you make the wrong decision or you just
tell the attorney just do whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I don't want to I don't want to deal with it.
I can't deal with it.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
And then later, you know, you look back and go, oh, geezu,
this was not very good.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
So I tell people all the time and it's really
really hard.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
So get a lot of sleep. I mean it sounds basic,
but it's it's hard. You know, you get a lot
of sleep. Get that frustration. So if it's taking a walk,
if it's going to the gym, if it's doing you know,
doing the meditation is really good and it's so easy.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
There's so many apps.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Out there that just you know, for ten minutes or
fifteen minutes, if you can wind down, or just any
time of the day if you need it, that's really good.
Worst case scenario, you know, a last minute is just
that quick easy five deepress in, five deepress out. You know,
if you're especially if you're transitioning, So what are we doing?
(23:30):
And again it's not just women, but often women. We're
be bopping all around, right, We're going from home to
the kids, to the work to that that's that's that all.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Over the place.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
So make that transition time, that a little bit of
meditation time. If you've got the app, maybe just do
five minutes before you get out of the car, you know,
just a breathing, breathing before So before you get out
of the car from work and into the house when
you have to start your next five jobs, Yeah, take
(24:02):
five minutes get to work. And if you have time
allows you know, if you're working outside of the home,
after you get there, take five minutes before you get
out of your car. If you work from home, that's
sometimes harder because now we have no boundaries, right, we
already have no boundaries, but now we have right boundaries.
So a lot of people say, well from home, but
(24:24):
they have no boundaries whatsoever at all. So make those boundaries.
Have a dedicated workspace, and before you go into that
work space, still do.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
That little bit of exercise.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
It could be a prayer, you know, Yeah, say a
quick prayer before you go in.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
The reality is we are our nervous system. Our nervous
system is on overload. And all of these solutions that
you're giving us are to calm our nervous system, to reset,
to help us to think better. And the apps are great.
I just want you to know that I get my
meditations on YouTube and there's so many that help with
(25:09):
calming the nervous system kind of takes you through five, ten,
fifteen minutes and it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
So let's just talk about your book.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So hopeful, even though we're talking about something that's so painful.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
We need the help, we need the resources.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So what message would you like to give the reader
and the listeners about your book Divorce Matters?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
What would you like them to take with them.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
I'd like them to know that there's a lot of
information that will help them no matter what stage they
are in. I also like to think that it helps,
and I've been told that it helps people who aren't
going through the divorce process themselves but are helping someone
go through the divorce process. Most people will thankfully have
(26:01):
someone that they can lean on, Like you know, so
instead of talking to their children, they have maybe a sibling,
maybe it's a parent, maybe it's just a close friend,
and those support people. Having the book, knowing what the
process is going to be like, having heard a lot
of the legal terms explained helps them when they're the
(26:25):
person that they're helping starts talking about the process. So
if they're talking about a deposition, or they're talking about
the discovery process, or they're talking about negotiations. They have
a basic understanding of that because they you know, I
tried to and I've tried to write it in very
simplistic terms, you know, only because not because I think
that the reader is not intelligent enough, but because I've
(26:46):
tried to make it access, you know, to relate to
a non attorney, so that even when you're talking with
your attorney, some of this stuff will sound familiar. Or
if your attorney tells you something, you can go back
and then re kind of rego over it and not
being charged by the attorney to repeat themselves, but to
(27:07):
go over to read it at your leisure and to
take notes. So I just so many people the feedback
I get is that there and this is why I
wrote the book. So many people used to say, I
wish I had this information ahead of time. I wish
I had known this ahead of time. I wish I
had talked to you before, and and it just makes
them feel better. When you feel better and you know
(27:29):
you could make better decisions for yourself. Another you know,
big part of this is telling you how to find
the right attorney for yourself. People don't know. They often
just go to the one first person, or they don't
know that they have a choice, they don't know questions
to ask the attorney. There's a whole chapter devoting to
me how to find someone that you feel comfortable with
(27:51):
and what questions because you really should be interviewing the
attorney find out because, like you said, since stress is
such a high part of it, if you're not confident
in your attorney, which sometimes happens, people come to me
later and say, it's it's really bad, you know, Whereas
if you know at least someone's you know, got your
(28:12):
back and they you know, and.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
You developed that working partnership.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
And I tell you how to do that in the book,
how you can work with your attorney that lowers the
stress level very very much. So that's going to help
you as well well.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I absolutely love it, Kathy, and I just want to
thank you so much for taking the time to be
with us today and you know, speak on something.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
That God, it's it's it's so overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
I just hear all of the stories and just to
be informed is so helpful. And for everyone out there
that's listening or if you're you're watching, know that the
information is below for Kathy's book, Divorce Matters There's a
link below where you can find the book, and you
(29:04):
can find it anywhere books are sold. And I just
want you to know, for those that are listening, if
you're walking through a breakup, a divorce, or even just
a season of rediscovery, I want you to.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Remember that you're not broken, and you.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Are being rebuilt into someone wiser, stronger, and more whole
than you ever were before, and you get to be
whoever it is that you want to be on the
other side of this. So I want to thank you
all for joining us on Wake Up with Marcy. Until
next time, keep waking up to your worth. Kathy, thank
(29:43):
you so much for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
You're welcome, Thank you for having me all
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Right, Bye bye everyone, and I'll see you next week.
Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
self discovery. I'm your host, Marty Hopkins, and this is
the space where we get real about life, transformation and
finding our true selves. Oh all, and welcome back to
Wake Up with Marcy, where we have real, raw conversations,
explore radical healing, and wake up to our worth. I'm
(00:23):
Marcy Hopkins, and I'm so grateful that you are here
with us today. We are going to be diving into
one of life's hardest but most often very transformative transitions, and.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
That is divorce.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Whether you're navigating it now, se healing, or supporting someone
going through it, this episode is for you. Divorce doesn't
just end a marriage. It can feel like it's unraveling
your identity, your future, and even.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Your self worth. But what if through the pain there's
also a path to power.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Today I'm joined by Kathy Beaufford, a seasoned family law
attorney with over thirty years of experience and the author
of Divorce Matters, a practical and empowering guide for navigating
divorce without losing yourself in the process. She has helped
countless clients move from heartbreak to healing, and she's here
(01:19):
to help us better understand what to expect, how to
protect ourselves legally and emotionally, and how to reclaim our futures.
So welcome Kathy to wake up.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, great to have you.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So wow, I mean, divorce, it's frightening, it's overwhelming, it's
a tragedy in so many.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Of our lives.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
But can you share with us one of like, what
are the biggest misconceptions that people have going into divorce?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Wow, there's a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So first, like for timeframes, people it's either one end
of the spectrum or the other. So people who have
agreements are approaching the manner amicably with their spouse, which
is always, if possible, the better way to go. They're
actually surprised at how fast the process can be. In fact,
(02:21):
in some states, including Connecticut where I work, if you
have a full agreement, it's quite possible to get divorce
and you never have to step foot in the courtroom
at all. So they're very surprised by that because they
just assume that it's going to be a long drawn
out event. On the flip side, that's a happy outcome
for them.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
On the flip side.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
There are many people who are of course, they're frustrated.
They're at the end of their marriage and they want
to be done yesterday, and they think it's going to
move quicker than it does, and they're just surprised at
how long the process takes. And one of the biggest
frustrations is that period that we call discovery process where
(03:03):
attorneys have to exchange certain financial information at a minimum
in order for us to do our due diligence to
make sure that everything kind of matches up, that nothing
there's no red flags, everything looks okay, in order to
get an idea of the financial history and be confident
that where we are in the present we're okay with
(03:25):
we know what we're talking about with the numbers, we
don't have to worry about maybe chasing anything that looks
funny or maybe something that happened in the past that
we have to deal with, and then we can move
forward and start talking about settlement with our clients and
then also negotiating it with the attorney. That process of
information gathering takes a long time, and there's a lot
(03:49):
of frustration that comes with that. So getting people, you know,
acclimated to the timeline, and there's lots of other things
that have to take place before you can reach either
an agreement.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Even in a.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Contested case, we try to reach an agreement or you
get to trial. So one of the things that I
try to explain, and I've tried to explain in the
book is to kind of take people through that process
so that they understand all the different elements and if
they can be prepared for that, then that's one frustration
that they shouldn't have to worry about because they can
(04:24):
expect it, they can plan for it. I give people
a lot of tips on how to you know, what's
probably going to be expected of them, what's going to
be asked of them, so that they can.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Start gathering that information early.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
People sometimes also, you know, they underestimate sometimes the adversity
that they may face going through divorce. I mean, some
people know well in advance that it's going to be
a hard road, but some people are either you know,
either either hopefully optimistic or they've been tricked into thinking
(04:57):
that this was going to be an easy process and
then they are surprised by there's a lot of roadblocks
that a spouse can place. And again, one of those things.
Dealing with a discovery process is not producing information or
withholding information from the other party. So again, if you
(05:18):
can kind of preemptively grab that stuff ahead of time,
that's just one more a way that the process might
be easier for you and less expensive for you because
you've kind of bypassed those roadblocks that may arise and
often arise in contentious cases.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So would these be things that you're gathering? So you've
written a book Divorce Matters, and I know that you're
helping people through the process, But is this something that
let's say you're thinking about divorce or you know, maybe
it's imminent or your husband's like maybe getting signs, or
(05:59):
is this early planning, like something that you can do
before it the papers are actually served. And then would
this help you to navigate this emotionally?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Also?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yes, yes, the book was certainly written in mind for
people looking for divorce when they're in the pre divorce stages.
There were a lot of people over the years, there
are a lot of people that had called me up,
you know, and they said they weren't ready yet or
they didn't know if they were going to get a divorce,
but they were trying to somehow get a hold of
(06:36):
what they can expect, what they might be able to
do ahead of time, to prepare. A lot of people
didn't even know this was an option to kind of
pre prepare. And sometimes when they called, if they sounded
a little ambivalent or you know it, quite frequently people
would call me and they don't even know what to ask,
but they but they but they've called me, right, they've
they've they've contacted me. So then I'd say, Okay, then
(06:59):
I'd start asking the questions, and if they felt like
they were unsure they didn't know. I found that giving
people kind of the lay of the land, like a
brief overview of what they can expect or what information
they may need to gather, things they might have to
look out for, depending on what they were telling me.
Just that little bit of information over the years over
(07:22):
the phone. You know that that safety net kind of
thing meant so much to people to be able to
just reach out and get that information.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
That information is power, right, and especially in such a difficult,
difficult time, even the thought of navigating a divorce and
moving forward with that, and especially for women that have
been in relationships for so long, I mean, their everything
has been, you know, their marriage and their children and
(07:57):
now to think that that's going to be lost. And
so many of the clients that you've had, they lose
themselves in their marriage. I mean, and that's normal. I mean,
there's so many of us that do it. I could
say that myself. So what are some of the emotional
patterns that you see as they.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Start to discover who they are?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I mean it, I would think and help me along
with this because I've not gone through divorce. I've gone
through difficult times in my marriage, but I've not gone
through divorce.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I would think.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
That that you are in such turmoil before this even starts,
and so emotionally you are navigating so many different emotions.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Through this process.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
But one of the things that you talk about is
rediscovering who you are. So how can you help someone
to start navigating all of these emotions that they are
dealing with and starting to to have to rediscover themselves
because they're no longer going to be with that person
(09:12):
that they've immersed themselves into and their lives into.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Sure, well, it's a process, like like most things, right,
So when when people first come to me, their their
emotions are very heightened and they're all over the place,
and understandably, you know, they have they have fear. They
some people have guilt, some people have regret, some people
have anger, despair.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
They come with a whole bunch of emotions.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
And although I always say I'm not a therapist, I
talk through all of that with them because what I
can offer them is, you know, some comfort knowing that
you know, we I've gone through this, This is you know,
many people have gone through this. What they're feeling is
just kind of acknowledging what they're feeling is normal is
very helpful to people, right and letting them know that,
(10:05):
you know, thousands of people have gone through this process
and they're okay, you know it's not I don't try
to sugarcoat it. I don't say it's going to be easy,
but I do tell them that there are things that
they can do to.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Make it easier.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And even knowing what the hard parts are, you know,
or what may come to be, that in and of
itself is comforting and I can and they can kind
of prepare themselves for that, so as we go through
the process, when they get that initial information, that kind
of lowers their anxiety a little bit. As we go
(10:39):
through it, We take.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Care of like some immediate.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Concerns that they have, and then we kind of start
to work on their future, their post divorce life. And
we start to talk about that early on because I
sit down and again, right now their mind is on
the here and now understandably, like.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
What's going to happen to me? What's going to happen
to me? Kids? Where am I going to live? You know?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
But we as we start to talk about what they think,
you know, their their like say like if they have kids,
We start to talk about what parenting plan might work
for them in their in their family, and it forces
them to think about, you know, and again the initial
response will be all the things that aren't going to
(11:24):
be the same. So when I talk about holidays, you know,
they think about everything that we won't be doing this,
we won't be doing that. So I break it down
and I say, well, what, you know, people usually have
certain patterns. Where do you usually spend Thanksgiving? Where would
you normally what would you normally do for for Easter?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
What would you normally do for Mother's Day?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And then we kind of take that and figure out, well,
what parts can we hang on to, you know, Obviously
it's not going to be exactly the same, but it
doesn't have to be completely different. When they talk through that,
sometimes they do want to really change something. Sometimes they
do want to do something out of the box, and
we kind of think about it in terms of, you know,
(12:04):
change doesn't have to be bad, right, So if we're
going to change something, let's do something maybe that you've
always wanted to do, or is there something that you know,
just because of tradition, you never got an opportunity to
do that you might have liked to do, or that
the kids might have liked to do. And it starts
to get them thinking about like life on the other side,
(12:26):
so to speak, and they start to think about what
they want, you know, and what the kids want as
opposed to what was what they did as a family.
So it starts to awaken, At least from my perspective,
it starts to kind of awaken.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
There's a self awareness.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
That becomes a parent and sometimes oftentimes women will vocalize
that to me, sometimes men too, but more often women
will say, wow, like I haven't thought about that in years,
or wow, I forgot that I used to have that hobby,
or gee, together with an old friends because because now
they had some downtime.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
So again, it's a mind I always say it's a
mind shift. It's it's really which you know, it's it's you.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
You have to you have that thought from within, and
it can change your entire outlook. So at first, it's
I'm not gonna see my kids, I'm not going to
have my kids this Friday, or I'm not gonna have
my kids this weekend, and it's all about boss and
it is a loss. It's it is a loss. I
don't and again I don't sugar quote things. I don't
(13:32):
say a well, don't worry about it. But again, you
can sit there and you can be upset the whole
time they're gone, and you can make yourself feel miserable,
and you can make your kids feel guilty knowingly or
unknowingly they know how you feel. Or you could say,
all right, you know they're fine, they're gonna be away
for me, they're going to have some time with with
(13:53):
with my soon to be spouse or my spouse. Now
what am I going to do with myself? So I
have time now to maybe go back to something I like.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So exactly rediscovering yourself yes, So what is a good
way to not put a lot of guilt on your
children and and talk with them through this process because
it got to be so hard.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
It is hard. It's hard.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
It's you can't mask your feelings totally right and you're
in your kids know, they know that.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
You know. Obviously different ages, no different things.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
But kids are very they're very intuitive as to what's
going on when things aren't right. So to try to
pretend that everything is fine and you know, and that
nothing will change is probably not the best idea, even
though that may seem like almost like an overprotective.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Thing to do.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
But at the same time, you just can't dump all
your emotions on your kids, even older kids. That's something
that I've through talking with a lot of family therapists
and even you know, some feedback from children themselves, as
older children sometimes tend to take the brunt of you know,
being the shoulder to Lena for their the parents think
(15:17):
that they're old enough to take to do it, and
they really aren't. They're still children. So it's like part
of my education is just reminding parents, you know, it's
okay to you have to talk to your kids, and
you have to talk to them at their different you know,
age levels, and sometimes that requires different conversations with different children, right,
(15:38):
not all together all the time, but they have to
make sure to find those boundaries. And when you have
those days that are really bad or something, you know
there's going to be a trigger coming up that's going
to make you. If you know that, you're going to
have a hard time, try to be aware of that
and try to you know, kind of separate yourself, like
(15:59):
go often do something yourself or have your you know,
we all need our pity parties, right, our own pity
perce do and it's okay, but but do it. You know,
we all have our anger times. You know, go punch
your pillow or you know, take it out, go to
the gym. Being aware is the best thing. So when
people are aware, everyone wants to be the best parent.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
So being aware is so much because then we can
make a choice and say, okay, I'm not you know,
this probably wouldn't be a good time to have a
conversation with my child or you know, but certainly don't
share share.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Things, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Sometimes again, parents have a tendency to tell children because
I think they're feeling vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
You know we're going to court.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Today or we're going to try to work something out,
you know, and it's it's not healthy for kids to
know that because then they worry, you know, and they
worry a lot. And sometimes I think people maybe do
it to try to get the spouse to agree because
they know that the kids know. There's all different kinds
of of things that our brains tell us to do.
Is and as part of it is protection self protection.
(17:04):
But we really have to take a step back when
involving your kids and try as much as possible not
to share, you know, anything with them.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
And they're truly affected.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yes yeah from family therapists will constantly say, no matter what,
you just tell the kids that everything's going to be okay.
That's what you keep telling them. Yes, we're going through
a divorce. Yes things are going to change, Yes things
might not look the same. Yes, we're going to be
angry at each other. That's all okay, you know, Yes
(17:35):
mommy's her or daddy's her. Yeah, that's fine, we're gonna
be sad once in a while, but that they're going
to be okay. That's what you need to keep telling.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Them that I love that and and make them not
feel like they're at fault in some way because of
what is happening.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Absolutely, they tend to take on kill with adults would
understand would never be the reason for the breakdown, but
children obviously internalize things differently, and they do think that,
you know, they're the center of the universe, which in
some ways they are. They actually often even older children
(18:16):
often think if I just did this better, if I
didn't do that better, or maybe if I act better now,
that they'll.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Come back together. They harbor that that hope.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
So, you know, so again you don't want to you
don't want to pretend it's not happening, because they will
fuel you know, it's like a it's like a it's
a hard balancing act because you don't want to have
them think that things are going to get better, meaning
that you'll get back together, because that's not healthy. They
need to learn that that's going to be you know,
(18:47):
they have to deal with their own loss, but it's
very important to let them know that it has absolutely
nothing to do with them, that they're still going to
be loved by both parents, that they're going to be
taking care of and everyone is going to be okay.
So that they don't have to worry about mom, they
don't have to worry about dad because they do a
lot of worrying they do.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So let's talk about negative ways that women start coping,
whether it's taking prescription medications or they start drinking excessively.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
What are some positive.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Ways to deal with this very difficult time instead of
turning to these negative ways of coping. Because listen, you're
going to have difficulties sleeping, You're going to have difficulty
navigating this. The way that you're feeling, You're distraught, right,
you feel depleted.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
You can't even imagine life on the other side.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So what are some positive ways that someone can stay
grounded and help them navigate this very difficult time.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I think with women as especially who you know, I
think women in general have time taking have a hard
time taking care of themselves and setting up boundaries.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
We do, that's what we do.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
And in fact, when things go downhill such as this,
we tend to take on more. You know, you know,
we can. We're going to fix the world. We're gonna
there's just give me enough duct.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Tape and we're going to fix it.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
And and.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
You know, like you said, even if you have to
employ means that aren't healthy. That's what they'll do. So
they will, you know, they'll they'll turn to substances, although
they'll they'll not sleep, you know, they'll burn the candle
at both ends. So really, especially with women, you've got
(20:48):
to recognize again, it comes with awareness, right, recognize it.
Stop and think if you you know, if you are
not healthy yourself, you're not going to be of any
use to anybody else. If you're overtired, if you're irritable,
it's going to make the whole process that much harder
because it takes a lot of mental stamina to get
(21:10):
through a divorce, especially even in an in an uncontented
what we call an uncontested divorce, it's still going to
take a lot of mental stamina because again, it's a
breakdown of the marriage, it's a change. You still have
to talk with your attorney, deal with the court. You
have to make decisions, you have to listen to what
the attorney is telling you, all of which is like
you know, legal jargon. And even though we try to
(21:32):
make it as easy as possible, we know it's hard.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
You know, like you're you're already because of the stress.
It's hard for you to understand and focus on things.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Especially things that are new, when you have so many working,
changing parts in your life.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
It's not just one little change, it's like a big change.
It's everything. So you actually need to be healthier. You know,
you have to be more arrested in order to and.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I tell people not only to take care of yourself,
that you could be a bit better parent because you know,
we all know your patience is tested when you're over
tired and stressed. Right, So in order to you know,
you want to you want to be there for you, you
have to be there more for your kids. You've got
to be able to have the patience to do that.
And you in order for that, you have to have
(22:20):
health and you have to have your rest.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
You don't want to have more guilt and shame through
this process.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Correct, It's like it's just a flippery slope. You know.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
You you go, you get up and you're tired, and
then you yell at the kids and then you you know,
you kick the dog.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
On your way out. Not you, Yeah, you mess up
that work.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
You know, you make the wrong decision or you just
tell the attorney just do whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I don't want to I don't want to deal with it.
I can't deal with it.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
And then later, you know, you look back and go, oh, geezu,
this was not very good.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
So I tell people all the time and it's really
really hard.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
So get a lot of sleep. I mean it sounds basic,
but it's it's hard. You know, you get a lot
of sleep. Get that frustration. So if it's taking a walk,
if it's going to the gym, if it's doing you know,
doing the meditation is really good and it's so easy.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
There's so many apps.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Out there that just you know, for ten minutes or
fifteen minutes, if you can wind down, or just any
time of the day if you need it, that's really good.
Worst case scenario, you know, a last minute is just
that quick easy five deepress in, five deepress out. You know,
if you're especially if you're transitioning, So what are we doing?
(23:30):
And again it's not just women, but often women. We're
be bopping all around, right, We're going from home to
the kids, to the work to that that's that's that all.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Over the place.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
So make that transition time, that a little bit of
meditation time. If you've got the app, maybe just do
five minutes before you get out of the car, you know,
just a breathing, breathing before So before you get out
of the car from work and into the house when
you have to start your next five jobs, Yeah, take
(24:02):
five minutes get to work. And if you have time
allows you know, if you're working outside of the home,
after you get there, take five minutes before you get
out of your car. If you work from home, that's
sometimes harder because now we have no boundaries, right, we
already have no boundaries, but now we have right boundaries.
So a lot of people say, well from home, but
(24:24):
they have no boundaries whatsoever at all. So make those boundaries.
Have a dedicated workspace, and before you go into that
work space, still do.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
That little bit of exercise.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
It could be a prayer, you know, Yeah, say a
quick prayer before you go in.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
The reality is we are our nervous system. Our nervous
system is on overload. And all of these solutions that
you're giving us are to calm our nervous system, to reset,
to help us to think better. And the apps are great.
I just want you to know that I get my
meditations on YouTube and there's so many that help with
(25:09):
calming the nervous system kind of takes you through five, ten,
fifteen minutes and it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
So let's just talk about your book.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So hopeful, even though we're talking about something that's so painful.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
We need the help, we need the resources.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So what message would you like to give the reader
and the listeners about your book Divorce Matters?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
What would you like them to take with them.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
I'd like them to know that there's a lot of
information that will help them no matter what stage they
are in. I also like to think that it helps,
and I've been told that it helps people who aren't
going through the divorce process themselves but are helping someone
go through the divorce process. Most people will thankfully have
(26:01):
someone that they can lean on, Like you know, so
instead of talking to their children, they have maybe a sibling,
maybe it's a parent, maybe it's just a close friend,
and those support people. Having the book, knowing what the
process is going to be like, having heard a lot
of the legal terms explained helps them when they're the
(26:25):
person that they're helping starts talking about the process. So
if they're talking about a deposition, or they're talking about
the discovery process, or they're talking about negotiations. They have
a basic understanding of that because they you know, I
tried to and I've tried to write it in very
simplistic terms, you know, only because not because I think
that the reader is not intelligent enough, but because I've
(26:46):
tried to make it access, you know, to relate to
a non attorney, so that even when you're talking with
your attorney, some of this stuff will sound familiar. Or
if your attorney tells you something, you can go back
and then re kind of rego over it and not
being charged by the attorney to repeat themselves, but to
(27:07):
go over to read it at your leisure and to
take notes. So I just so many people the feedback
I get is that there and this is why I
wrote the book. So many people used to say, I
wish I had this information ahead of time. I wish
I had known this ahead of time. I wish I
had talked to you before, and and it just makes
them feel better. When you feel better and you know
(27:29):
you could make better decisions for yourself. Another you know,
big part of this is telling you how to find
the right attorney for yourself. People don't know. They often
just go to the one first person, or they don't
know that they have a choice, they don't know questions
to ask the attorney. There's a whole chapter devoting to
me how to find someone that you feel comfortable with
(27:51):
and what questions because you really should be interviewing the
attorney find out because, like you said, since stress is
such a high part of it, if you're not confident
in your attorney, which sometimes happens, people come to me
later and say, it's it's really bad, you know, Whereas
if you know at least someone's you know, got your
(28:12):
back and they you know, and.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
You developed that working partnership.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
And I tell you how to do that in the book,
how you can work with your attorney that lowers the
stress level very very much. So that's going to help
you as well well.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I absolutely love it, Kathy, and I just want to
thank you so much for taking the time to be
with us today and you know, speak on something.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
That God, it's it's it's so overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
I just hear all of the stories and just to
be informed is so helpful. And for everyone out there
that's listening or if you're you're watching, know that the
information is below for Kathy's book, Divorce Matters There's a
link below where you can find the book, and you
(29:04):
can find it anywhere books are sold. And I just
want you to know, for those that are listening, if
you're walking through a breakup, a divorce, or even just
a season of rediscovery, I want you to.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Remember that you're not broken, and you.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Are being rebuilt into someone wiser, stronger, and more whole
than you ever were before, and you get to be
whoever it is that you want to be on the
other side of this. So I want to thank you
all for joining us on Wake Up with Marcy. Until
next time, keep waking up to your worth. Kathy, thank
(29:43):
you so much for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
You're welcome, Thank you for having me all
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Right, Bye bye everyone, and I'll see you next week.
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