March 17, 2025 • 38 mins
Michael Judson Berry, Ryan Wilder, and Gracie take a nostalgic trip down memory lane, sharing childhood stories—including humorous tales of their betrothal and parenting. They then dive into the fascinating world of grocery stores, exploring the origins and rivalries of Aldi, Lidl, and Trader Joe’s, the lore of Two Buck Chuck wine, and the unique relationship between Trader Joe’s and Aldi. Plus, a sentimental look at Wegmans, fun grocery store history, and more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, well I lost my internet connection.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oh is that what happened? I thought minority you just quit.
You were like, I hate this. This is enough for Pole.
I'm not listening to Michael's thing. That is only funny
to Michael.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Hello, oh hello, Welcome to White Noise.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And we're joined by my oldest friend and my oldest
I mean, just the person I've known the longest, my
dear friend, Gracie. We've been friends since I think I
was five years old, and you were whatever that made you.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Because I can't do it right, yeah, pretty little.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And we're betrothed for most of our childhood.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
It's true.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
We were betrothed for a very long time.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
It's funny.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
I have this group chat going on at work, and
I don't know, it's just a lot of nonsense and
people trying to like cheer each other up during the workday,
and it somehow developed into everyone sending funny and embarrassing
childhood pictures of themselves, which was with everyone I work with.
They're all like quirky, weird artists, so you can imagine
(01:04):
there's some.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Like what do you do?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
I do marketing for the Everson Museum of Art in Syracuse,
and the picture that I shared on this group thread
was well, I shared a few, but one of them
was of Michael and I getting married when we were like,
I don't know it was I know it was a
snow day and I was in grade school, so probably
like fourth grade and sixth grade or.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Something like that.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Was this arranged by your parents?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We were neighbors growing up and after school, like because
Gracie's mom didn't work, so she was like the ultimate
stay at home mom. I will say your mom was
like when you picture like the greatest stay at home mom,
it is Laura McDermott and so Elson and I my
sister and I would go to Gracie's house after school,
and yeah, we would do things like this, like we
did a full wedding. Remember then we made cookies and
(01:55):
decorated the wedding cookies and we smushed them in our
faces like it was wedding cake.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Yeah, a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
But our families were so intertwined. It was like, oh, well,
Michael and Gracie will get married and then we'll actually
be family.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, I didn't go.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So well, are your parents close? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Our families were basically like one big family.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
I think what they meant was Michael and Gracie our
soulmates and they will be together the rest of their lives.
And to that, I say, that's that's accurate, that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Is true, and you just welcome to baby.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
We're just joking that my husband's family is from the Midwest,
and so they say Eleanor, like Eleanor, Oh, I might
have freethought the name.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I hope your parents, your husband's parents, don't listen.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
You're gonna get a phone call.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
The moment this comes out, they're like, Okay, so Eleanor,
how is she?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
It's charming, that's fine, We're all fine.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Keep saying it.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
That was actually surprising because Syracuse accents are also not
like the most melodious accents ever, so like, but that's
really funny that the Midwestern one just takes it one
step further. They're like, I see your Eleanor and just
raise you Eleanor.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I was going to say, your marriage story just kind
of quickly reminded me of I had an awkward girlfriend
when I was probably in like fourth or fifth grade,
and it was the girl who lived next door to
my grandparents and my parents and my grandparents did not
like this girl because it was kind of it was
(03:39):
kind of trailer park esque, if you will, and like
she wasn't fitting of somebody who could hang out with me,
and we always got into trouble when we were together,
and she was like the first person where I was like,
I was like a wee boyfriend and girlfriend and she's like, yeah,
we're going to get married. And I was like, Okay,
that sounds good to me. And I was like do
we kiss? And we were both like I don't think
(03:59):
we need to do that, right, No, we don't need
to do that. So we were meant to be betrothed,
at least in our minds, and it would have you know,
our families would have never never let it happen.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Where is she now? Do we know?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
She works at the Dollar General in Stanton?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Okay, listen, she's employed. And that's more than a lot
of us can say right now.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Yeah, so you know, as a married person, I can
vouch for the kissing's overrated.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Don't need to do a whole lot of it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
All right, Well, would you like to know today's topic, Grace,
because I know you listened to the show, so you
know the general gist.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I'm very excited.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
Yeah, and I get to talk on whatever criteria I
deem a criteria.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Double yes, that word.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I have a feeling you've already decided. You probably already
know who's going first, and you probably already have your
next topic. Am I right?
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Well, I kind of forgot that I choose the person
that goes first by do have a topic? I thought
long about it, And by that I mean, you know,
I woke up and was like, that sounds good. Okay,
I'm gonna say, Ryan, you go first. I feel like
that's the preferred I don't know, we'll tee you what.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Michael great?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I love it. Well, actually, I'm very so. Our topic
today is grocery stores.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
Oh you know, I forget how topics work. I listened
to I think your most recent.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Podcast, But you were expressing social nudity, weren't you. Well
you can listen on Monday. Get a download on that one.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Man. Okay, fine, grocery Actually, now.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
That I think about it, you would have been great
for social nudity because of skinny dipping up at the
river dipping.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, hey, dipping is dipping dipping because Gracie's family is
a beautiful house up at the Saint Lawrence River and
on the water, and so there's there's been you know,
morning evening skinny dipping moments.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
An interesting choice of words. We just jacked it up
so it wouldn't fall in the rivers.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Yeah, but yeah, grocery stores are equally exciting.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
I'm palmed.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Hit me with it.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
All, right, are we ready?
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Ye?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yes? Okay, and.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Go okay. So this ended up being a complete nerd
out for me on a topic on topics that I
actually have been quoting incorrectly for a really long time.
And as a matter of fact, Michael, we talked about
grocery stores. It wasn't in the end of the Social
Nudity podcast, but we sat and chatted about grocery stores
for like another ten to fifteen minutes afterwards.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Feel very strongly about them.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yes, we both got very excited. So I decided that
I would fully put to bed the stories of Aldi
Letal and Trader Joe's and how it all came together
and how it all works.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I'm really excited.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Now, Ryan, you just won.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I was humped to learn to like and I was like,
you know what I got. I want to understand this
because I talk about it, because I think it's interesting.
So we'll start with Aldie, because Aldi is really where
it all begins. Aldi was created by Anna Albrecht back
in nineteen thirteen, and she ran the grocery store through
(07:32):
the war, and her two sons, Carl the Younger and
Theo the Older, were both drafted into the German army
and fought in the war. That being said, I did
look into this because I wanted to be clear whether
or not it was true. They were not Nazis and
they were not associated with the with the SS. They
were just part of normal German conscription and drafting, so
(07:55):
were required to fight in the war. Carl was wounded
and a captured pow. Theo, while he saw no compact
combat compact combat, was part of the army and occupied
northern Africa. But when they returned back from the war,
they realized that they had an incredible opportunity to expand
(08:20):
their mother's grocery business and a very needy and very
destroyed Germany. So in nineteen forty six the brothers took
over the business and by nineteen fifty they had thirteen stores,
and by the nineteen sixties they had well over one
hundred plus stores. But in the nineteen sixties is where
it starts to get interesting, because the brothers had a
(08:42):
giant rift over cigarettes. Now I was kind of like
I was. I went into this kind of altruistic being,
like was the rift like we shouldn't be selling cigarettes? Now?
The rift was that THEO was pro cigarettes because it
was a great opportunity to make more money, and Karl
was anti cigarettes because it would draw in shoplifters and
(09:03):
he didn't want shoplifters in his stores.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Smoky refraff over here.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I don't want any of the refraff.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Get him out of here.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
You look like a smoker.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Sorry with you, you look like a smoker. Get out
of my store.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
If we really did not use German access, we didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
We just went on time me on that one bad.
There is smoked, there's beautifullying, Get out of here.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So THEO mister pro cigarettes, set up Aldi North and
Carl Anti Cigarettes set up Ald South, and it was
literally divided in Germany by Northern Germany and Southern Germany.
Now both of these businesses grew huge. The Carl side,
(09:50):
so Audi South Aldi South is worth the family's worth
something like twenty nine billion, and THEO Ald North is
worth something like twenty billion at this point both are
dead and by the way, all the comes from the
original name of the stores, which was Albrecht Discount, so
(10:11):
it's AL for Albrecht and DII for Discounts, so all
the actually stands for all Brick Discount. They within those divisions.
They've expanded globally, so ALDI South is in the UK, Ireland,
Australia and the United States, so they do most of
the U most of the English speaking holdings, and they
(10:31):
are fully separate company. Aldi North does France, Spain, Belgium
and Netherlands, and I will talk about TJ's in a minute.
It kind of at the end, but the two are
extremely cooperative around technology and logistics for the purpose of
fighting off leedal So Legal Markets was created in the
(10:55):
nineteen seventies by Dieter Schwartz, and Dieter Schwartz chose to
expand and on his dad Joseph's wholesale grocery business. So
he's like, I have this, this access to inexpensive groceries.
The ALDI model of high quality goods at low prices
with little frills is kind of an ideal one, and
I'm set up well to go do it, So he
(11:16):
hops into it and essentially copies Aldi's business model. This
drove the brothers crazy, and actually what transpired or started
to create them working together because leadal, I'll look at that,
I put it together. Lead started to actively consume their
market share and so they're like, we have to coordinate
(11:38):
at some level to kind of fight this guy Deeter off.
So there are stories of lots of like corporate espionage
and spying and going into each other's stores, crazy price
wars where the stores operate at losses to ensure that
they force the other store out of the market that
they've moved into, and this continues. The fight kind of continues.
(11:59):
Now that being said, Letal is actually the bigger company
at this point and has I think a little bit
of a greater market share. Interesting things about Letal, so
Dietrich Schwartz is eighty years old and still has some
oversight for the company, while Ness is technically retired, but
he's a ghost like. He's extremely private. There are very
few photos of him, and the photos of them that
(12:21):
they do have for decades old at this point, and
they decided not to name it Schwartz Market because Schwartz
means black in German, so it would have been black market.
So he acquired the name Letal from a retired school
teacher for one thousand Deutsche marks, and that's how we
then got legal market. The other kind of cool thing
(12:43):
is they, like I think everyone kind of knows this
about Letal and Aldi, is that they have that center
lane in the center that has all the weird market
so like everything from cheap sandals to very expensive expression
expresso machines at deep discounts. And this is kind of
a theme in both, like you can find interesting things
or toys. And that's actually why I like the Leadle.
(13:05):
I always go down the center aisle and Leedle where
we live.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
I feel like out because I don't think I've ever
been to a Leedle.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I've never heard.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, I haven't either.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Well, so this is kind of fun. I get to
talk about my mom a little bit. So my mom
started going to the Leedle in Northern Virginia and my
mom is like, Ryan, you got to go to the Leedle.
You got to go to the Leedle. And this is
just like one of these things where I was like, okay, Mom,
like deep breath, like like it can't be that exciting.
So finally one day they build one in Eaton Town,
(13:37):
New Jersey, which is just like a hair north of
us on the shore, and I'm like, we should go
check this out. And I don't really all these not
really for me, Like it's too much stuff is prepackaged,
like it's tough to find fresher items, and so like
certain things, so we don't typically go to all the
not really my favorite.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
We'll go.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I will go to find stuff quickly though at times.
But we walk into Leedle and I was like, Okay,
this is actually kind of cool. They have a great
bakery with a lot of fresh German breads and pretzels
that are always very delicious. Leedal is also known for
having a phenomenal wine and cheese selection, and people are
like nuts about their wine and cheese selection, and some
(14:20):
of the wines that letal owns have actually beat out
more expensive, nicer wines and blind taste tests. In New
Jersey they don't sell wine, but in Northern Virginia they do,
and I have emphatically picked up they also sell wine
relatively cheap, so I've picked up very real, very good,
like docg Italian wines at very good prices in their stores.
(14:43):
But the way it's described between the two is that
Aldi is kind of like the steady, disciplined and strategic warrior,
while Leedal is your more scrappy and aggressive fighter. So
Leedle will walk into markets, make mistakes and back out,
but they will try any thing to continue to get
to gain market share. And apparently the company, like Deader,
(15:04):
is now worth something like forty billion dollars, so he's
worth essentially what the two brothers are worth combined. From
from Aldi, it's worth noting they both died the Aldie brothers,
and both the Suit and the Nord organizations are held
by family foundations and not as much family of Bonnents,
(15:27):
so all the executive management is now like formal executive
management and not run by the family. But Dieter Schwartz
apparently still has a very heavy hand in Leadle. Now
I also said I talk about Trader Joe's and you'll
hear people twenty seconds. Okay, this is actually pretty quick.
So Trader Joe's was created in nineteen sixty seven by
(15:50):
Joe Cologne, so it was actually there was actually a
Trader Joe. It was bought by Aldi family in nineteen
seventy nine very quietly, and it's fully independently from Aldi North.
So while Aldi North doesn't have a US presence, they
do because they own Trader Joe's. It's a fully wholly
(16:12):
separately operated entity. But there is apparently some coordination around
supply chain and technology because the larger Aldi family holdings
have access to all of this stuff. So Trader Joe's
is not an Aldi it is owned by the Aldi
Nord Foundation though.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
So can I share.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
The rumor that I heard that I'm going to make
fact by just saying it here.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
That's how fast it work.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
That is how fast.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
I'm just choosing to believe that it's real. So I
heard by who knows who forever.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Ago that.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
The gentleman who owned Trader Joe's he, like, in New
York State, you cannot wine in a grocery store, which
is really annoying. But when I lived in Maine, i
lived there for a couple of years, I would pick
up my wine and whatever with my groceries, and it
was wonderful because you could get bottles for like between
(17:13):
six and nine dollars and it would be pretty good wine.
It was part of my grocery shopping, and I learned
because this is fact, that the gentleman who owned Trader
Joe's went through a divorce and part of the settlement
with his wife was that she was going to get
(17:34):
the proceeds from wine sales from like boot sales, and
so he very deliberately marked it down to the cheapness
it could be to spite her so she would not
get ooh, the proceeds of the wine.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Are you checking me?
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Ryan?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
This is fact?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So I mean, like, if it's not, that's true, that's
a great story.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Like that's one way to keep prices low. Just bitterness.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
So actually, it doesn't necessarily have to do with the legend,
doesn't have to do with Trader Joe's, but it does
have to do with Charles Shaw, which is the two
buck chuck oh. In reality, Charsaws started as Napavello Wannering
nineteen seventy, focused on varieties like game. Despite early success,
including awards and features in White House Dinners, the Wine
(18:27):
faced significant challenges in the eighties. Financial typiculties compounded, and
a costly divorced from his wife's Lucy led to bankruptcy
and ninety five Charleshaw label was sold to Fred Phronsia
Bronco Wine Company YEW for twenty seven thousand dollars. The
(18:47):
affordable price of Charsow Wine and Trader Joe's affectionately dubbed
two buck Chuck stems from Bronco Bronco Wine companies cost
effective production methods. These include owning extensive venuards in California, merchandising,
harvesting and fermenting with oak chips instead of barrels, utilizing
lightweight bottles. These strittergs enable the company offer such low prices,
(19:08):
not as result of any divorce related vendetta.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Oh sorry, are you upset that I dispelled?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Did I dispelled the myth? Did I lose?
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Now?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Did I just lose?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
How dare you spread accurate information?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Ryan? Listen?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
If Gracie and I both learned something from I truly
can say this about my mother, but certain other people
it's that you never let the truth get in the.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Way of a good story.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
That is very true.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
But no, this is we should be about facts here.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
We should try That was great?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Are you ready, Michael? Sure?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
As ready as I always am.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
All Right, you know What's funny is I always say
this to you and I never have my timer hold on.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I know, same.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
It's that one thing that I always forget about where
I'm like ready to go, oh well, I'm not wait
a second, all right, ready, Yes, I have pretty strong
opinions about grocery stores. I think because they grew up
with Wegmans, and in my opinion, Wegmans is a superior
grocery store.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
It is.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And I even grew up with like the janky Wegmans
in Syracuse and my JANKI Wegmans is nicer than pretty
much every other grocery store I've ever been to. And
I think it has so much to do with the
color scheme. And I think what their color scheme is
is that it's brilliant because their floors. If you've never
been into Wegmans, they're this wonderful family owned grocery store,
Thank you, Danny Wegman. And their color scheme is orange
(20:30):
and brown, which at first doesn't sound that nice, but
I think it covers any dirt and grime so it
never looks dirty. And they have like wood paneling around
their pharmacies. The Wegman's brand stuff is always very good,
but they don't. It's not like the Whole Food's like
where they like push their brand at you, like it's
it's a solid mix of like Wegman's peanut butter and
(20:51):
like Jivvy. And then their subshop though, is where they
won me over when I was young. Wegmens subs are
so good, and I think because they're enough, they could
feed a family of six, like one sub, Like they're
one of those ones where you would go, like, my
personal order is turkey with provolone, cheese, lettuce, tomato, mayonnaise,
light on the mayonnaise, and they fill it with so
(21:15):
much Deli stuff that like you could bledge in a
small child with that sub and then like you know,
it's they're so thick and wonderful.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
That was one of the things I missed most when
I was pregnant. You can't have Deli meat, so like
anytime i'd go into Wegman's, I'd be like.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
They're so good.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And then I went to college in Boston and I
went to I don't even remember what it was, but
it's white, it looked dirty, the lighting was too bright.
It was just a really awful experience, just traumatizing truly,
I have PTSD and I'll never.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Get over it.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And I was just like, is this how other people live?
And then I learned that like other people are very
defensive of their grocery stores. Like I did a play
in Florida for six months, I in Sarasota, and the
way I feel about Wegmans is the way they feel
about public oh yeah, and public subs. And I have
(22:10):
never felt so superior in my life. I was just like,
these people think that what they have is great and
this is nothing. And to that end, like I went
to La and I would go to Trader Joe's and
again I would look down at my nose at Trader
Joe's because I do. I will give you Trader Joe's
as nice. But my issue with them is their food
goes bad so fast, Like yes, it's like supposed to
(22:30):
be all organic whatever, but I would buy a loaf
of like Trader Joe's bread and get it home and
it would be moldy, like it would be twelve minutes.
You would have to have fifteen sandwiches to like make
that bread worthwhile, like in a day. And so that's
my issue with my little gripe with Trader Joe's, as
I feel like inexplicably, their food goes bad very very quickly,
and I know people are weirdly too cheery, and there's
(22:51):
a bell that they rang, and I was like, I
don't know this, this is a bit much. There's stew Leonards.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So this was my unplanned rant about other grocery store
ste Leonards. Stew Leonards. I hate Stu Leonards. That's the
one I talked about it before, where it's like one
long aisle like Ikea, but it's like a barn and
you're like, I just wanted to buy mayonnaise and this
is now going to take me an hour, and there's
like robot cows singing at me.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
No, that makes more sense. It's like it's weird to
bump into one Leonard, let alone two.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, no, not two Leonards. It's stew Leonards. It's get
out of town Leonards. I hate that place, out of
town letters. It's a horrible place. It's where grocery dreams
go to die. And the funny thing is that I
do have really strong opinions about this, even though I'm
not a good cook, Like famously, quite literally, I have
been on TV to learn how to cook, and I'm
still not good at it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Seared your pasta's fab Michael.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
My pasta is very good, I will say, and Chef
Ane Burrell was very proud of me that I learned
how to make pasta. So where all this led me though,
because I wanted to learn about the history of Wegmans.
And so Wegmans opened in upstate New York and Rochester
in nineteen sixteen. And the interesting thing is Piggly Wiggly
claims to be the first grocery store, the first like
(24:07):
as we know grocery store, and they opened in Memphis, Tennessee,
in nineteen sixteen, and so it's interesting that they get
the mark of like first grocery store. But according to
Wegman's Like about Us history, they opened the same year.
So I did not investigate this, but I think someone
should because I have other things I need to talk about.
So just fun fact, somebody go research which one really
(24:30):
came first, Wegmans or Pigly Wiggly. I like to think
it's Pigly Wiggly because it's a funny name. So that
sent me down like fun grocery store facts. So here
are some like momentous moments in grocery store history, famously
fore Pigly Wiggly nineteen sixteen. The first grocery store carts
came out not until nineteen thirty seven, and they were
(24:50):
introduced at the Humpty Dumpty, which I did not know
was a grocery store. Why grocery stores had to have
goofy names beyond me, But Humpty Dumpty locations had the
first grocery carts in nineteen thirty seven. They were really controversial.
People didn't like them at first. They were inspired by
folding chairs. Men didn't like them because they thought they
(25:13):
were too effeminate looking, and women didn't like them because
they thought they were too closely they resembled baby strollers,
and for whatever reason that bothered them.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
The first drive in market came out in la in
the nineteen thirties, and that sort of was like the
first time we had sort of a department store style
grocery store. It was like because there were cars, that
was the first time we had grocery stores with parking lots.
That's why they called them like drive ups, because they
were like, we need parking lots, so a lot of
different vendors cobbled together next to a parking lot, and
(25:46):
that led to they called them drive in grocery stores.
I know, like you drove your car through. That's what
I was really hoping it was going to be, like
you just kind of barreled through and like yelled through
your whender. We were like, I need some I am
and it just like they threw it through your car window.
Sadly that's not the case. It's just a parking lot.
(26:07):
So that led to the first sort of like supermarket
as we know it, which came out in Queens, New York.
It's sort of inspired by this in the nineteen thirties
and it was a King Cullin and it opened in
Queens and it was very popular because that was sort
of the la idea. But the la one was outdoors
and this was they put it indoors to like, you know,
because weather happens, you know, they were like, oh, it's cold,
(26:30):
so let's enclose this. But that was still where it
was like different vendors, if you will, like a baker
and a you know, fishmonger, all you know under one
roof a fishmonger.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
How am I on time?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
By the way, oh I don't know, Oh you have
two minutes.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Okay, great. So where this all really led me? Which
is what I was why I was zipping through grocery
store moments because those are interesting to me. But what
really I was excited now is Piggly Wiggly. What the
Piggly Wiggly always makes me think of is this thing
called Punchy Players, And it's this YouTube creator. And what
he does is he takes he does impressions, and he
(27:12):
takes clips of old stars and puts them in fun places,
and then he does voiceovers. So he does like if
Audrey Hepburn was your airline hostess. He does a like
Julia Child cooking thing. But one of my favorite ones
he does Judy and Liza and they go on various adventures,
and one is Judy and Liza go to the Piggly
Wiggly and like he just uses images of them in
(27:34):
a piggly wiggly moving around and then voices it and
it came out of He did one where Judy Garland
does a c of Cream of Wheat commercial and sings
the thing in Liza is like, good morning, mama, what
are we having for breakfast? And she's like cream of wheat.
But Judy and Liza go to the Piggly Wiggly is
one of my favorites. And then Anne Miller is the
grocery store checkout girl. I will just play a little
(27:56):
bit of it for you now, just a little snow
bit of it. It is wonderful.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
Oh mamma, it's gonna be a fantastic dinner. You know
if we got the doctor.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Pepper really, because Judy spends the whole time singing jingles
as they go through, so she only will get things
that have jingles, So they only have candy bars and
like sodas.
Speaker 6 (28:15):
Whatever it is what we'll need afterwards, pop pop, fizz
fizzleh what relief it is? Oh look, mama broccoli. Oh no,
we can't get that. It doesn't have a jingle. Judy, Judy,
I can ring you up on register far and Miller.
(28:35):
What are you doing here? Jeddy? They stop making tap
dancing pictures? So I came here to pick up some hours.
Oh any do you carry Kraft Macaroni and cheese and
Jollie ranchers. Sweetie, We're running a special two for one
on raw Sauerkraft, and I tell you it's great but
(28:56):
you gotta keep the lid on it because it smells
like garbage, worse than Astir Williams swimming Pool, which.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Reminds me at the time that she and then she
goes into stories. Now, if you're an old movie nerd
like me, it's hilarious that Ann Miller we lost what
Ryan just left? My nerdiness just drove Ryan away. Well, Grace,
I think that means I won.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
And by default, okay, well I lost my internet connection.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh is that what happened? I thought, my nerdy you
just quit. You were like, I hate this. This is
enough for I'm not listening to Michael's thing. That is
only funny to Michael. Like that little clip that I
played is going to be funny to me and like
four other people. But anyway, that's what it made me
think of, is they go to the piggy wiggly punchy players.
I highly recommend. It's funnier if you see it. Anne
Miller is one of those stars from like the same
(29:48):
as Judy Garland, but she was a big tap dancer,
so she did a lot of those big like old
MGM movie musicals where they had tap dancers. But I
just love the way she goes Jey Jedi and like
in the eighties she was kind of a gay I
kunk you would wear these like massive wigs and just
became like this essential like a direct if you google,
like Ann Miller, just enjoy the wig tastic campness that
(30:09):
is this woman.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I'm assuming we're it time.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah. I was going to say, of course, the time
went when my whole internet went out, but I think
it's perfect timing. By the way, I also did go
look up what the difference between Piggly Wiggly and Weigman's.
Wigman's is in nineteen sixteen, if you'd like to know. Yes,
Piggly Wiggily was the first self service grocery store, so
it was the first one where you could walk in,
(30:32):
push a cart around, and put things in your cart
and check out. The model prior to this was you
would walk to a counter, you'd hand somebody a list,
and they would do the grocery shopping for you and
bring it back. But Weigman's in nineteen sixteen was a
push cart, so it was like, think of it like
a food truck, so somebody would push around fresh produce
(30:56):
press so it wasn't actually a grocery store.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Ok So, so Piggly Wiggly still holds it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Piggly Wiggly wins.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Good for Pickly Wiggily. And in this video that's where
Anne Miller works, and so it's a great place.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Only you can take grocery stores and somehow tie it
back to like some weird Hollywood theatrical.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I just love the idea of Judy Garland and Liza
Minelli going grocery stopping at the Pigly Wiggily and all
they buy for dinner is pepsi mounds, bars and like
just anything with a song.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Oh and Oscar Meyer.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
They go to buy Oscar Meyer Wieners at the beginning
of the video, and then Judy won't do it because
she hates Golden Mayor. She's like, Mayor, get that out
of here. And Lisa's like, one day, Mama, I want
to be an Ascarmeyer been and she's.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Like, Liz, you can be whatever you want to be.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Class anyway, it's great, Okay, Grace, you.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Know what to do.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah, now you got the hard part.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
I pick Ryan.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I was gonna say, this isn't that hard.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
There are reasons, so.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
First and foremost, you scratch that like Trader Joe's itch,
and even though you ruined my favorite Trader Joe's, I
was glad to learn about it.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
It's been a real roller coaster for me on this one.
I was like, I was out.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
I know you were out, but then you're back in
because and these are my very personal feelings about Wegments.
Even though I love Wegmans well, Like, even though I
could admit that Wegmans is a superior grocery store, it
like obviously is in a lot of respects, I am
a little frustrated with Wegmans for a few reasons. One,
(32:45):
the one most convenient to me is so big and
chaotic that it kind of like stresses me out. Honestly,
there's no like going in and out for it.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I will echo that it is. It is an undertaking.
Even if you just want to run in.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
I really like I can't. It kind of stressed me out.
I don't priority. It's also gotten stupid expensive. So it
has gotten really expensive. It's like borderline Whole Foods level,
where like one bag of groceries will cost almost two
hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It's insane, it really is. Because we shop there pretty regularly,
and like you know, I get a few things and
I throw them in a bag and I'm like, how
is this one hundred and ten bucks?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, because they're a good company. They give all their
employees health insurance.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
That is a really good thing.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
I do like appreciate that about Wegments, but I'm seeing I.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Prefer them ill with Wegments.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
I have two more okay.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
One is that I'm seeing more and more Wegmans branded
stuff and they're like they're pushing the little guys, like
those those cool different brands off the shelf. Like it's
getting harder and harder to find, like more boutique items.
It's all like everything says Wegmans. And my final gripe
(34:00):
is I do almost all my shopping on I riffed everything.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
It's a thing about me.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
I buy all my clothes on Poshmark and thread Up,
and I buy everything for our house on Facebook Marketplace.
And one of the things I went on like a
shopping mission, I think it was last summer, to pick
up something kind of big from a farmer and was
kind of talking to him about what he grows and
(34:28):
who he sells to and what it's like to be
a farmer. And he said, you know, I used to
sell to Wegmans a lot, but now you'll only find
my products and Trader Joe's is something about like the
bottom line, like Wegmans doesn't buy anymore.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, oh, after my whole spiel about how great they are,
this is the episode of just debunking myths.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Uh huh, well I do that's I was on board
with everything else, Michael, but like, I have very inflicting
feelings about Wegmans.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
So anyway, it strikes me that they've gotten They've just
gone hardcore corporate at this point, and it's all about
the bottom line. Like I do understand that, But at
the same time, I do think it's a walk away
from what the brand I think was originally intended to be.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
But yeah, I guess I'll just have to cling to
my memories and never go back because.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
It's like anti Wegmans. That's just more pro Trader Joe's
because we buy more local produce.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
So I feel like I'm supporting the little guy.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
More, gotcha.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
I don't know anyways, So Brian, congratulations, but thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
A well thought battle.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Is it? Ever?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
We have fun here though always? I mean, I just
got to say Piggly Wiggily a lot and Humpty Dumpty
grocery store.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Who knew that was the thing? So I'm thrilled.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Where is Humpty empty?
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I think it was somewhere. It was it was in
the south somewhere. I feel like I've seen it. I
feel like I've been in one, and I just can't recall.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Where.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Could you imagine buying eggs at Humpty Dumpty? I mean
they're all broken.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
If I own Humpty Dumpty, I would be like, purposely
make the floor just a little uneven so people like
fall down a lot, but make it sort of an
optical lusion. You can't see it coming, but they do.
Just trip best scrambled eggs in the market. Uh, all right,
what's what's our topic for next week?
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Okay? So your topic for next week? I was thinking
about it because I'm a new mom.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
We read stories to our little girl every night, which
is honestly more for my benefit than hers, like she's
you know, still kind of dumb and doesn't know like
what sor It's okay, she will appreciate them someday. So
your topic is fairy tales? Oh yeah, but it can
(37:02):
be awe, but there are also some really dark story
like fairy tales out there. You can take it in
a weird direction if you want it true.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I'm gonna go try and go weird.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
That doesn't surprise me. You're gonna be like I see
your grim's fairy tales and it raised you with these
like really messed up once, like there was.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Well, I was about to tell you one, but I
don't want to because what if you want to talk
about it next week?
Speaker 4 (37:26):
So I'm gonna.
Speaker 5 (37:28):
Leave it to your interpretation and discretion. It can be
ah light and airy and happy family times, or it
can be real dark and creepy and like, I don't know,
teach some really hard.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Lessons, okay, I mean fun.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Okay, great, Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
You're so welcome. Thanks for inviting me. This was fun.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Buy Bounding Building
Okay, well I lost my internet connection.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oh is that what happened? I thought minority you just quit.
You were like, I hate this. This is enough for Pole.
I'm not listening to Michael's thing. That is only funny
to Michael.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Hello, oh hello, Welcome to White Noise.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And we're joined by my oldest friend and my oldest
I mean, just the person I've known the longest, my
dear friend, Gracie. We've been friends since I think I
was five years old, and you were whatever that made you.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Because I can't do it right, yeah, pretty little.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And we're betrothed for most of our childhood.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
It's true.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
We were betrothed for a very long time.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
It's funny.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
I have this group chat going on at work, and
I don't know, it's just a lot of nonsense and
people trying to like cheer each other up during the workday,
and it somehow developed into everyone sending funny and embarrassing
childhood pictures of themselves, which was with everyone I work with.
They're all like quirky, weird artists, so you can imagine
(01:04):
there's some.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Like what do you do?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
I do marketing for the Everson Museum of Art in Syracuse,
and the picture that I shared on this group thread
was well, I shared a few, but one of them
was of Michael and I getting married when we were like,
I don't know it was I know it was a
snow day and I was in grade school, so probably
like fourth grade and sixth grade or.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Something like that.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Was this arranged by your parents?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
We were neighbors growing up and after school, like because
Gracie's mom didn't work, so she was like the ultimate
stay at home mom. I will say your mom was
like when you picture like the greatest stay at home mom,
it is Laura McDermott and so Elson and I my
sister and I would go to Gracie's house after school,
and yeah, we would do things like this, like we
did a full wedding. Remember then we made cookies and
(01:55):
decorated the wedding cookies and we smushed them in our
faces like it was wedding cake.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Yeah, a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
But our families were so intertwined. It was like, oh, well,
Michael and Gracie will get married and then we'll actually
be family.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, I didn't go.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So well, are your parents close? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Our families were basically like one big family.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
I think what they meant was Michael and Gracie our
soulmates and they will be together the rest of their lives.
And to that, I say, that's that's accurate, that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Is true, and you just welcome to baby.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
We're just joking that my husband's family is from the Midwest,
and so they say Eleanor, like Eleanor, Oh, I might
have freethought the name.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I hope your parents, your husband's parents, don't listen.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
You're gonna get a phone call.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
The moment this comes out, they're like, Okay, so Eleanor,
how is she?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
It's charming, that's fine, We're all fine.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Keep saying it.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
That was actually surprising because Syracuse accents are also not
like the most melodious accents ever, so like, but that's
really funny that the Midwestern one just takes it one
step further. They're like, I see your Eleanor and just
raise you Eleanor.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I was going to say, your marriage story just kind
of quickly reminded me of I had an awkward girlfriend
when I was probably in like fourth or fifth grade,
and it was the girl who lived next door to
my grandparents and my parents and my grandparents did not
like this girl because it was kind of it was
(03:39):
kind of trailer park esque, if you will, and like
she wasn't fitting of somebody who could hang out with me,
and we always got into trouble when we were together,
and she was like the first person where I was like,
I was like a wee boyfriend and girlfriend and she's like, yeah,
we're going to get married. And I was like, Okay,
that sounds good to me. And I was like do
we kiss? And we were both like I don't think
(03:59):
we need to do that, right, No, we don't need
to do that. So we were meant to be betrothed,
at least in our minds, and it would have you know,
our families would have never never let it happen.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Where is she now? Do we know?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
She works at the Dollar General in Stanton?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Okay, listen, she's employed. And that's more than a lot
of us can say right now.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Yeah, so you know, as a married person, I can
vouch for the kissing's overrated.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Don't need to do a whole lot of it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
All right, Well, would you like to know today's topic, Grace,
because I know you listened to the show, so you
know the general gist.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I'm very excited.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
Yeah, and I get to talk on whatever criteria I
deem a criteria.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Double yes, that word.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I have a feeling you've already decided. You probably already
know who's going first, and you probably already have your
next topic. Am I right?
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Well, I kind of forgot that I choose the person
that goes first by do have a topic? I thought
long about it, And by that I mean, you know,
I woke up and was like, that sounds good. Okay,
I'm gonna say, Ryan, you go first. I feel like
that's the preferred I don't know, we'll tee you what.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Michael great?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I love it. Well, actually, I'm very so. Our topic
today is grocery stores.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
Oh you know, I forget how topics work. I listened
to I think your most recent.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Podcast, But you were expressing social nudity, weren't you. Well
you can listen on Monday. Get a download on that one.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Man. Okay, fine, grocery Actually, now.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
That I think about it, you would have been great
for social nudity because of skinny dipping up at the
river dipping.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, hey, dipping is dipping dipping because Gracie's family is
a beautiful house up at the Saint Lawrence River and
on the water, and so there's there's been you know,
morning evening skinny dipping moments.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
An interesting choice of words. We just jacked it up
so it wouldn't fall in the rivers.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Yeah, but yeah, grocery stores are equally exciting.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
I'm palmed.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Hit me with it.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
All, right, are we ready?
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Ye?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yes? Okay, and.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Go okay. So this ended up being a complete nerd
out for me on a topic on topics that I
actually have been quoting incorrectly for a really long time.
And as a matter of fact, Michael, we talked about
grocery stores. It wasn't in the end of the Social
Nudity podcast, but we sat and chatted about grocery stores
for like another ten to fifteen minutes afterwards.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Feel very strongly about them.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yes, we both got very excited. So I decided that
I would fully put to bed the stories of Aldi
Letal and Trader Joe's and how it all came together
and how it all works.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I'm really excited.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Now, Ryan, you just won.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I was humped to learn to like and I was like,
you know what I got. I want to understand this
because I talk about it, because I think it's interesting.
So we'll start with Aldie, because Aldi is really where
it all begins. Aldi was created by Anna Albrecht back
in nineteen thirteen, and she ran the grocery store through
(07:32):
the war, and her two sons, Carl the Younger and
Theo the Older, were both drafted into the German army
and fought in the war. That being said, I did
look into this because I wanted to be clear whether
or not it was true. They were not Nazis and
they were not associated with the with the SS. They
were just part of normal German conscription and drafting, so
(07:55):
were required to fight in the war. Carl was wounded
and a captured pow. Theo, while he saw no compact
combat compact combat, was part of the army and occupied
northern Africa. But when they returned back from the war,
they realized that they had an incredible opportunity to expand
(08:20):
their mother's grocery business and a very needy and very
destroyed Germany. So in nineteen forty six the brothers took
over the business and by nineteen fifty they had thirteen stores,
and by the nineteen sixties they had well over one
hundred plus stores. But in the nineteen sixties is where
it starts to get interesting, because the brothers had a
(08:42):
giant rift over cigarettes. Now I was kind of like
I was. I went into this kind of altruistic being,
like was the rift like we shouldn't be selling cigarettes? Now?
The rift was that THEO was pro cigarettes because it
was a great opportunity to make more money, and Karl
was anti cigarettes because it would draw in shoplifters and
(09:03):
he didn't want shoplifters in his stores.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Smoky refraff over here.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I don't want any of the refraff.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Get him out of here.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
You look like a smoker.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Sorry with you, you look like a smoker. Get out
of my store.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
If we really did not use German access, we didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
We just went on time me on that one bad.
There is smoked, there's beautifullying, Get out of here.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So THEO mister pro cigarettes, set up Aldi North and
Carl Anti Cigarettes set up Ald South, and it was
literally divided in Germany by Northern Germany and Southern Germany.
Now both of these businesses grew huge. The Carl side,
(09:50):
so Audi South Aldi South is worth the family's worth
something like twenty nine billion, and THEO Ald North is
worth something like twenty billion at this point both are
dead and by the way, all the comes from the
original name of the stores, which was Albrecht Discount, so
(10:11):
it's AL for Albrecht and DII for Discounts, so all
the actually stands for all Brick Discount. They within those divisions.
They've expanded globally, so ALDI South is in the UK, Ireland,
Australia and the United States, so they do most of
the U most of the English speaking holdings, and they
(10:31):
are fully separate company. Aldi North does France, Spain, Belgium
and Netherlands, and I will talk about TJ's in a minute.
It kind of at the end, but the two are
extremely cooperative around technology and logistics for the purpose of
fighting off leedal So Legal Markets was created in the
(10:55):
nineteen seventies by Dieter Schwartz, and Dieter Schwartz chose to
expand and on his dad Joseph's wholesale grocery business. So
he's like, I have this, this access to inexpensive groceries.
The ALDI model of high quality goods at low prices
with little frills is kind of an ideal one, and
I'm set up well to go do it, So he
(11:16):
hops into it and essentially copies Aldi's business model. This
drove the brothers crazy, and actually what transpired or started
to create them working together because leadal, I'll look at that,
I put it together. Lead started to actively consume their
market share and so they're like, we have to coordinate
(11:38):
at some level to kind of fight this guy Deeter off.
So there are stories of lots of like corporate espionage
and spying and going into each other's stores, crazy price
wars where the stores operate at losses to ensure that
they force the other store out of the market that
they've moved into, and this continues. The fight kind of continues.
(11:59):
Now that being said, Letal is actually the bigger company
at this point and has I think a little bit
of a greater market share. Interesting things about Letal, so
Dietrich Schwartz is eighty years old and still has some
oversight for the company, while Ness is technically retired, but
he's a ghost like. He's extremely private. There are very
few photos of him, and the photos of them that
(12:21):
they do have for decades old at this point, and
they decided not to name it Schwartz Market because Schwartz
means black in German, so it would have been black market.
So he acquired the name Letal from a retired school
teacher for one thousand Deutsche marks, and that's how we
then got legal market. The other kind of cool thing
(12:43):
is they, like I think everyone kind of knows this
about Letal and Aldi, is that they have that center
lane in the center that has all the weird market
so like everything from cheap sandals to very expensive expression
expresso machines at deep discounts. And this is kind of
a theme in both, like you can find interesting things
or toys. And that's actually why I like the Leadle.
(13:05):
I always go down the center aisle and Leedle where
we live.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
I feel like out because I don't think I've ever
been to a Leedle.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I've never heard.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, I haven't either.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Well, so this is kind of fun. I get to
talk about my mom a little bit. So my mom
started going to the Leedle in Northern Virginia and my
mom is like, Ryan, you got to go to the Leedle.
You got to go to the Leedle. And this is
just like one of these things where I was like, okay, Mom,
like deep breath, like like it can't be that exciting.
So finally one day they build one in Eaton Town,
(13:37):
New Jersey, which is just like a hair north of
us on the shore, and I'm like, we should go
check this out. And I don't really all these not
really for me, Like it's too much stuff is prepackaged,
like it's tough to find fresher items, and so like
certain things, so we don't typically go to all the
not really my favorite.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
We'll go.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I will go to find stuff quickly though at times.
But we walk into Leedle and I was like, Okay,
this is actually kind of cool. They have a great
bakery with a lot of fresh German breads and pretzels
that are always very delicious. Leedal is also known for
having a phenomenal wine and cheese selection, and people are
like nuts about their wine and cheese selection, and some
(14:20):
of the wines that letal owns have actually beat out
more expensive, nicer wines and blind taste tests. In New
Jersey they don't sell wine, but in Northern Virginia they do,
and I have emphatically picked up they also sell wine
relatively cheap, so I've picked up very real, very good,
like docg Italian wines at very good prices in their stores.
(14:43):
But the way it's described between the two is that
Aldi is kind of like the steady, disciplined and strategic warrior,
while Leedal is your more scrappy and aggressive fighter. So
Leedle will walk into markets, make mistakes and back out,
but they will try any thing to continue to get
to gain market share. And apparently the company, like Deader,
(15:04):
is now worth something like forty billion dollars, so he's
worth essentially what the two brothers are worth combined. From
from Aldi, it's worth noting they both died the Aldie brothers,
and both the Suit and the Nord organizations are held
by family foundations and not as much family of Bonnents,
(15:27):
so all the executive management is now like formal executive
management and not run by the family. But Dieter Schwartz
apparently still has a very heavy hand in Leadle. Now
I also said I talk about Trader Joe's and you'll
hear people twenty seconds. Okay, this is actually pretty quick.
So Trader Joe's was created in nineteen sixty seven by
(15:50):
Joe Cologne, so it was actually there was actually a
Trader Joe. It was bought by Aldi family in nineteen
seventy nine very quietly, and it's fully independently from Aldi North.
So while Aldi North doesn't have a US presence, they
do because they own Trader Joe's. It's a fully wholly
(16:12):
separately operated entity. But there is apparently some coordination around
supply chain and technology because the larger Aldi family holdings
have access to all of this stuff. So Trader Joe's
is not an Aldi it is owned by the Aldi
Nord Foundation though.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
So can I share.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
The rumor that I heard that I'm going to make
fact by just saying it here.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
That's how fast it work.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
That is how fast.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
I'm just choosing to believe that it's real. So I
heard by who knows who forever.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Ago that.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
The gentleman who owned Trader Joe's he, like, in New
York State, you cannot wine in a grocery store, which
is really annoying. But when I lived in Maine, i
lived there for a couple of years, I would pick
up my wine and whatever with my groceries, and it
was wonderful because you could get bottles for like between
(17:13):
six and nine dollars and it would be pretty good wine.
It was part of my grocery shopping, and I learned
because this is fact, that the gentleman who owned Trader
Joe's went through a divorce and part of the settlement
with his wife was that she was going to get
(17:34):
the proceeds from wine sales from like boot sales, and
so he very deliberately marked it down to the cheapness
it could be to spite her so she would not
get ooh, the proceeds of the wine.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Are you checking me?
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Ryan?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
This is fact?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So I mean, like, if it's not, that's true, that's
a great story.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Like that's one way to keep prices low. Just bitterness.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
So actually, it doesn't necessarily have to do with the legend,
doesn't have to do with Trader Joe's, but it does
have to do with Charles Shaw, which is the two
buck chuck oh. In reality, Charsaws started as Napavello Wannering
nineteen seventy, focused on varieties like game. Despite early success,
including awards and features in White House Dinners, the Wine
(18:27):
faced significant challenges in the eighties. Financial typiculties compounded, and
a costly divorced from his wife's Lucy led to bankruptcy
and ninety five Charleshaw label was sold to Fred Phronsia
Bronco Wine Company YEW for twenty seven thousand dollars. The
(18:47):
affordable price of Charsow Wine and Trader Joe's affectionately dubbed
two buck Chuck stems from Bronco Bronco Wine companies cost
effective production methods. These include owning extensive venuards in California, merchandising,
harvesting and fermenting with oak chips instead of barrels, utilizing
lightweight bottles. These strittergs enable the company offer such low prices,
(19:08):
not as result of any divorce related vendetta.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Oh sorry, are you upset that I dispelled?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Did I dispelled the myth? Did I lose?
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Now?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Did I just lose?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
How dare you spread accurate information?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Ryan? Listen?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
If Gracie and I both learned something from I truly
can say this about my mother, but certain other people
it's that you never let the truth get in the.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Way of a good story.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
That is very true.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
But no, this is we should be about facts here.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
We should try That was great?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Are you ready, Michael? Sure?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
As ready as I always am.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
All Right, you know What's funny is I always say
this to you and I never have my timer hold on.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I know, same.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
It's that one thing that I always forget about where
I'm like ready to go, oh well, I'm not wait
a second, all right, ready, Yes, I have pretty strong
opinions about grocery stores. I think because they grew up
with Wegmans, and in my opinion, Wegmans is a superior
grocery store.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
It is.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And I even grew up with like the janky Wegmans
in Syracuse and my JANKI Wegmans is nicer than pretty
much every other grocery store I've ever been to. And
I think it has so much to do with the
color scheme. And I think what their color scheme is
is that it's brilliant because their floors. If you've never
been into Wegmans, they're this wonderful family owned grocery store,
Thank you, Danny Wegman. And their color scheme is orange
(20:30):
and brown, which at first doesn't sound that nice, but
I think it covers any dirt and grime so it
never looks dirty. And they have like wood paneling around
their pharmacies. The Wegman's brand stuff is always very good,
but they don't. It's not like the Whole Food's like
where they like push their brand at you, like it's
it's a solid mix of like Wegman's peanut butter and
(20:51):
like Jivvy. And then their subshop though, is where they
won me over when I was young. Wegmens subs are
so good, and I think because they're enough, they could
feed a family of six, like one sub, Like they're
one of those ones where you would go, like, my
personal order is turkey with provolone, cheese, lettuce, tomato, mayonnaise,
light on the mayonnaise, and they fill it with so
(21:15):
much Deli stuff that like you could bledge in a
small child with that sub and then like you know,
it's they're so thick and wonderful.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
That was one of the things I missed most when
I was pregnant. You can't have Deli meat, so like
anytime i'd go into Wegman's, I'd be like.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
They're so good.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And then I went to college in Boston and I
went to I don't even remember what it was, but
it's white, it looked dirty, the lighting was too bright.
It was just a really awful experience, just traumatizing truly,
I have PTSD and I'll never.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Get over it.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And I was just like, is this how other people live?
And then I learned that like other people are very
defensive of their grocery stores. Like I did a play
in Florida for six months, I in Sarasota, and the
way I feel about Wegmans is the way they feel
about public oh yeah, and public subs. And I have
(22:10):
never felt so superior in my life. I was just like,
these people think that what they have is great and
this is nothing. And to that end, like I went
to La and I would go to Trader Joe's and
again I would look down at my nose at Trader
Joe's because I do. I will give you Trader Joe's
as nice. But my issue with them is their food
goes bad so fast, Like yes, it's like supposed to
(22:30):
be all organic whatever, but I would buy a loaf
of like Trader Joe's bread and get it home and
it would be moldy, like it would be twelve minutes.
You would have to have fifteen sandwiches to like make
that bread worthwhile, like in a day. And so that's
my issue with my little gripe with Trader Joe's, as
I feel like inexplicably, their food goes bad very very quickly,
and I know people are weirdly too cheery, and there's
(22:51):
a bell that they rang, and I was like, I
don't know this, this is a bit much. There's stew Leonards.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So this was my unplanned rant about other grocery store
ste Leonards. Stew Leonards. I hate Stu Leonards. That's the
one I talked about it before, where it's like one
long aisle like Ikea, but it's like a barn and
you're like, I just wanted to buy mayonnaise and this
is now going to take me an hour, and there's
like robot cows singing at me.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
No, that makes more sense. It's like it's weird to
bump into one Leonard, let alone two.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, no, not two Leonards. It's stew Leonards. It's get
out of town Leonards. I hate that place, out of
town letters. It's a horrible place. It's where grocery dreams
go to die. And the funny thing is that I
do have really strong opinions about this, even though I'm
not a good cook, Like famously, quite literally, I have
been on TV to learn how to cook, and I'm
still not good at it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Seared your pasta's fab Michael.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
My pasta is very good, I will say, and Chef
Ane Burrell was very proud of me that I learned
how to make pasta. So where all this led me though,
because I wanted to learn about the history of Wegmans.
And so Wegmans opened in upstate New York and Rochester
in nineteen sixteen. And the interesting thing is Piggly Wiggly
claims to be the first grocery store, the first like
(24:07):
as we know grocery store, and they opened in Memphis, Tennessee,
in nineteen sixteen, and so it's interesting that they get
the mark of like first grocery store. But according to
Wegman's Like about Us history, they opened the same year.
So I did not investigate this, but I think someone
should because I have other things I need to talk about.
So just fun fact, somebody go research which one really
(24:30):
came first, Wegmans or Pigly Wiggly. I like to think
it's Pigly Wiggly because it's a funny name. So that
sent me down like fun grocery store facts. So here
are some like momentous moments in grocery store history, famously
fore Pigly Wiggly nineteen sixteen. The first grocery store carts
came out not until nineteen thirty seven, and they were
(24:50):
introduced at the Humpty Dumpty, which I did not know
was a grocery store. Why grocery stores had to have
goofy names beyond me, But Humpty Dumpty locations had the
first grocery carts in nineteen thirty seven. They were really controversial.
People didn't like them at first. They were inspired by
folding chairs. Men didn't like them because they thought they
(25:13):
were too effeminate looking, and women didn't like them because
they thought they were too closely they resembled baby strollers,
and for whatever reason that bothered them.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
The first drive in market came out in la in
the nineteen thirties, and that sort of was like the
first time we had sort of a department store style
grocery store. It was like because there were cars, that
was the first time we had grocery stores with parking lots.
That's why they called them like drive ups, because they
were like, we need parking lots, so a lot of
different vendors cobbled together next to a parking lot, and
(25:46):
that led to they called them drive in grocery stores.
I know, like you drove your car through. That's what
I was really hoping it was going to be, like
you just kind of barreled through and like yelled through
your whender. We were like, I need some I am
and it just like they threw it through your car window.
Sadly that's not the case. It's just a parking lot.
(26:07):
So that led to the first sort of like supermarket
as we know it, which came out in Queens, New York.
It's sort of inspired by this in the nineteen thirties
and it was a King Cullin and it opened in
Queens and it was very popular because that was sort
of the la idea. But the la one was outdoors
and this was they put it indoors to like, you know,
because weather happens, you know, they were like, oh, it's cold,
(26:30):
so let's enclose this. But that was still where it
was like different vendors, if you will, like a baker
and a you know, fishmonger, all you know under one
roof a fishmonger.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
How am I on time?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
By the way, oh I don't know, Oh you have
two minutes.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Okay, great. So where this all really led me? Which
is what I was why I was zipping through grocery
store moments because those are interesting to me. But what
really I was excited now is Piggly Wiggly. What the
Piggly Wiggly always makes me think of is this thing
called Punchy Players, And it's this YouTube creator. And what
he does is he takes he does impressions, and he
(27:12):
takes clips of old stars and puts them in fun places,
and then he does voiceovers. So he does like if
Audrey Hepburn was your airline hostess. He does a like
Julia Child cooking thing. But one of my favorite ones
he does Judy and Liza and they go on various adventures,
and one is Judy and Liza go to the Piggly
Wiggly and like he just uses images of them in
(27:34):
a piggly wiggly moving around and then voices it and
it came out of He did one where Judy Garland
does a c of Cream of Wheat commercial and sings
the thing in Liza is like, good morning, mama, what
are we having for breakfast? And she's like cream of wheat.
But Judy and Liza go to the Piggly Wiggly is
one of my favorites. And then Anne Miller is the
grocery store checkout girl. I will just play a little
(27:56):
bit of it for you now, just a little snow
bit of it. It is wonderful.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
Oh mamma, it's gonna be a fantastic dinner. You know
if we got the doctor.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Pepper really, because Judy spends the whole time singing jingles
as they go through, so she only will get things
that have jingles, So they only have candy bars and
like sodas.
Speaker 6 (28:15):
Whatever it is what we'll need afterwards, pop pop, fizz
fizzleh what relief it is? Oh look, mama broccoli. Oh no,
we can't get that. It doesn't have a jingle. Judy, Judy,
I can ring you up on register far and Miller.
(28:35):
What are you doing here? Jeddy? They stop making tap
dancing pictures? So I came here to pick up some hours.
Oh any do you carry Kraft Macaroni and cheese and
Jollie ranchers. Sweetie, We're running a special two for one
on raw Sauerkraft, and I tell you it's great but
(28:56):
you gotta keep the lid on it because it smells
like garbage, worse than Astir Williams swimming Pool, which.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Reminds me at the time that she and then she
goes into stories. Now, if you're an old movie nerd
like me, it's hilarious that Ann Miller we lost what
Ryan just left? My nerdiness just drove Ryan away. Well, Grace,
I think that means I won.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
And by default, okay, well I lost my internet connection.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh is that what happened? I thought, my nerdy you
just quit. You were like, I hate this. This is
enough for I'm not listening to Michael's thing. That is
only funny to Michael. Like that little clip that I
played is going to be funny to me and like
four other people. But anyway, that's what it made me
think of, is they go to the piggy wiggly punchy players.
I highly recommend. It's funnier if you see it. Anne
Miller is one of those stars from like the same
(29:48):
as Judy Garland, but she was a big tap dancer,
so she did a lot of those big like old
MGM movie musicals where they had tap dancers. But I
just love the way she goes Jey Jedi and like
in the eighties she was kind of a gay I
kunk you would wear these like massive wigs and just
became like this essential like a direct if you google,
like Ann Miller, just enjoy the wig tastic campness that
(30:09):
is this woman.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I'm assuming we're it time.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah. I was going to say, of course, the time
went when my whole internet went out, but I think
it's perfect timing. By the way, I also did go
look up what the difference between Piggly Wiggly and Weigman's.
Wigman's is in nineteen sixteen, if you'd like to know. Yes,
Piggly Wiggily was the first self service grocery store, so
it was the first one where you could walk in,
(30:32):
push a cart around, and put things in your cart
and check out. The model prior to this was you
would walk to a counter, you'd hand somebody a list,
and they would do the grocery shopping for you and
bring it back. But Weigman's in nineteen sixteen was a
push cart, so it was like, think of it like
a food truck, so somebody would push around fresh produce
(30:56):
press so it wasn't actually a grocery store.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Ok So, so Piggly Wiggly still holds it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Piggly Wiggly wins.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Good for Pickly Wiggily. And in this video that's where
Anne Miller works, and so it's a great place.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
Only you can take grocery stores and somehow tie it
back to like some weird Hollywood theatrical.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I just love the idea of Judy Garland and Liza
Minelli going grocery stopping at the Pigly Wiggily and all
they buy for dinner is pepsi mounds, bars and like
just anything with a song.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Oh and Oscar Meyer.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
They go to buy Oscar Meyer Wieners at the beginning
of the video, and then Judy won't do it because
she hates Golden Mayor. She's like, Mayor, get that out
of here. And Lisa's like, one day, Mama, I want
to be an Ascarmeyer been and she's.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Like, Liz, you can be whatever you want to be.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Class anyway, it's great, Okay, Grace, you.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Know what to do.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah, now you got the hard part.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
I pick Ryan.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I was gonna say, this isn't that hard.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
There are reasons, so.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
First and foremost, you scratch that like Trader Joe's itch,
and even though you ruined my favorite Trader Joe's, I
was glad to learn about it.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
It's been a real roller coaster for me on this one.
I was like, I was out.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
I know you were out, but then you're back in
because and these are my very personal feelings about Wegments.
Even though I love Wegmans well, Like, even though I
could admit that Wegmans is a superior grocery store, it
like obviously is in a lot of respects, I am
a little frustrated with Wegmans for a few reasons. One,
(32:45):
the one most convenient to me is so big and
chaotic that it kind of like stresses me out. Honestly,
there's no like going in and out for it.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I will echo that it is. It is an undertaking.
Even if you just want to run in.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
I really like I can't. It kind of stressed me out.
I don't priority. It's also gotten stupid expensive. So it
has gotten really expensive. It's like borderline Whole Foods level,
where like one bag of groceries will cost almost two
hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It's insane, it really is. Because we shop there pretty regularly,
and like you know, I get a few things and
I throw them in a bag and I'm like, how
is this one hundred and ten bucks?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, because they're a good company. They give all their
employees health insurance.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
That is a really good thing.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
I do like appreciate that about Wegments, but I'm seeing I.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Prefer them ill with Wegments.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
I have two more okay.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
One is that I'm seeing more and more Wegmans branded
stuff and they're like they're pushing the little guys, like
those those cool different brands off the shelf. Like it's
getting harder and harder to find, like more boutique items.
It's all like everything says Wegmans. And my final gripe
(34:00):
is I do almost all my shopping on I riffed everything.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
It's a thing about me.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
I buy all my clothes on Poshmark and thread Up,
and I buy everything for our house on Facebook Marketplace.
And one of the things I went on like a
shopping mission, I think it was last summer, to pick
up something kind of big from a farmer and was
kind of talking to him about what he grows and
(34:28):
who he sells to and what it's like to be
a farmer. And he said, you know, I used to
sell to Wegmans a lot, but now you'll only find
my products and Trader Joe's is something about like the
bottom line, like Wegmans doesn't buy anymore.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, oh, after my whole spiel about how great they are,
this is the episode of just debunking myths.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Uh huh, well I do that's I was on board
with everything else, Michael, but like, I have very inflicting
feelings about Wegmans.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
So anyway, it strikes me that they've gotten They've just
gone hardcore corporate at this point, and it's all about
the bottom line. Like I do understand that, But at
the same time, I do think it's a walk away
from what the brand I think was originally intended to be.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
But yeah, I guess I'll just have to cling to
my memories and never go back because.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
It's like anti Wegmans. That's just more pro Trader Joe's
because we buy more local produce.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
So I feel like I'm supporting the little guy.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
More, gotcha.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
I don't know anyways, So Brian, congratulations, but thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
A well thought battle.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Is it? Ever?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
We have fun here though always? I mean, I just
got to say Piggly Wiggily a lot and Humpty Dumpty
grocery store.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Who knew that was the thing? So I'm thrilled.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Where is Humpty empty?
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I think it was somewhere. It was it was in
the south somewhere. I feel like I've seen it. I
feel like I've been in one, and I just can't recall.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Where.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Could you imagine buying eggs at Humpty Dumpty? I mean
they're all broken.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
If I own Humpty Dumpty, I would be like, purposely
make the floor just a little uneven so people like
fall down a lot, but make it sort of an
optical lusion. You can't see it coming, but they do.
Just trip best scrambled eggs in the market. Uh, all right,
what's what's our topic for next week?
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Okay? So your topic for next week? I was thinking
about it because I'm a new mom.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
We read stories to our little girl every night, which
is honestly more for my benefit than hers, like she's
you know, still kind of dumb and doesn't know like
what sor It's okay, she will appreciate them someday. So
your topic is fairy tales? Oh yeah, but it can
(37:02):
be awe, but there are also some really dark story
like fairy tales out there. You can take it in
a weird direction if you want it true.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I'm gonna go try and go weird.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
That doesn't surprise me. You're gonna be like I see
your grim's fairy tales and it raised you with these
like really messed up once, like there was.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
Well, I was about to tell you one, but I
don't want to because what if you want to talk
about it next week?
Speaker 4 (37:26):
So I'm gonna.
Speaker 5 (37:28):
Leave it to your interpretation and discretion. It can be
ah light and airy and happy family times, or it
can be real dark and creepy and like, I don't know,
teach some really hard.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Lessons, okay, I mean fun.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Okay, great, Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
You're so welcome. Thanks for inviting me. This was fun.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!