April 7, 2025 • 37 mins
Michael and Ryan welcome archaeologist David Ian Howe for a deep dive into the mysteries of the Egyptian pyramids. They explore theories on their purpose, the influence of Zahi Hawass, and the intersection of archaeology, nationalism, and tourism. Plus, a look at the challenges of peer review, the connection between geology and archaeology, and humanity’s enduring fascination with ancient civilizations.
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Subscribe and Watch on YouTube
Connect with Us: Michael Judson Berry | Ryan Wilder
Theme: “Happy Dance” by Mr. Smith is licensed under Attribution 4.0 International License. “Running Fanfare” by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under Attribution 3.0 Unported.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I will tell you in reflection, I did go back
and listen to the stuff I was talking about his
day and then actually had a conversation with somebody who
does quantum computing. I definitely drew out some connections I
probably shouldn't have, hey, but whatever, I think it sounded good.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Listen, it's our show. And you used a lot of
multi Slavic words, so I was there with you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And it's not like a Ted Talk. It's more like
a Bob Talk.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Like that's true, Oh, Bob Talk.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I liked that. Welcome back to White Noise. I'm so
excited about our guest today. Ryan.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You found our special guest today, so please please do
the honors.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I will have to tell you I did give the
chat GPTs a little bit of credit here. I went
to a chattoopt and I said, hey, we need to
find somebody who's cool, who knows archaeology that would be
open to being on a podcast, and chat GPT was like,
you need to go talk to David.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So David, welcome, Hi, thanks for finding me.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I know I'm on the chat GPTs now, so I
feel cool.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I think we're all on the chat GPTs. It's over. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah, we're cooked.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
We're cooked, and they have all of us.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
They're like, you're there because there is a David Ian
Howe that they've already created.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, it's just like a little like Pokemon version of
me somewhere into the PC.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
It's like, are you actually the real David or are
you the chat GPT David?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Her virtual David is the real David.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm sorry, that's a question for my therapist, which I
will come back with.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I love that that's how this all came about. And
you're I also personally, now that I have found you,
I can't wait to dive into your podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah tell us, Well, the podcast is new and fledgling.
I'd say I had an original podcast. I did original.
I had an older podcast I did with two other
colleagues called A Life in Ruins That was what the
Archaeology Podcast Network, and we interviewed archaeologists about, you know,
their careers and like their research and whatnot, and then
(01:57):
mostly just other grad students at the time. But now
I have two pots that are my own, and one's
The David and House Show, and that is just interviewing
people I find interesting and then Ethno Sinology it's basically
my YouTube channel but like audio form, if that makes sense.
So it's supposed to be about dogs, but I do
anything from well ethno, sinology is the study of dogs
and human cultural contexts. So anything to do with archaeology
(02:19):
and dogs kind of just I lump in there. But
I have so many interests that all just kind of blend.
Most every episode's about dogs in some way.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, well, archaeology and dogs are two things that I
very much nerd out about. So that's what I mean
I'm about to do. I'm about to become your number
one fan and so okay, this is a very exciting
day for me.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah. The archaeology background is so perfect for our topic today,
which is the Pyramids. Do you know anything about them?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I'm a prehistoric archaeologist, so asking me about that would
be like asking your dentist about your ankle. But we
can talk about it if that's great. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Can you imagine if you're like, nope, I'm out go back. Well,
there's a wasp in my hoigh I have to address.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Oh right, yank you for reminding me. I forgot about that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
If David just like disappears, it's because there's a wasp
currently stalking him in his house that you've already done
battle with and you won the battle.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You're just not sure if you've won the war.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, But yeah I can. I can talk
to Pyramids great.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And the way we work too, I feel like, in
case you don't know, we'll get a topic and it
literally is just whatever it makes each of us think
of so and we each get ten minutes to riff
on that topic, and it's the It's like the least
formal ted talk you've ever seen, because we are experts
on none of these things, and so feel free to
(03:38):
chime in. And like with photosynthesis last week, I was
talking about things and our guest was fully correcting me
on certain Okay, so feel free to be like Michael,
you're a dum dum because at the end of it,
you choose a winner and whatever that means for you.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
All Right, Pyramids, which one of us would you like
to hear go first? Do you get to choose?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
You're in the center of the screen, Michael, and I've
only been staring at you, so I'm gonna let Ryan speak,
I guess for a second, so I don't just keep
my eyes in one direction.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I mean, it's fine if you just want to look
at me. I get it.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
You got a nice background every thing.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I'm not hurt.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Get my beard trimmed like two weeks ago. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You look great.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Mainly not to look at it. It's like because I
keep scratching it, which does pick up on the microphone.
But anyway, that's a difference.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Oh, it suns like a whole asmr thing. I'm sure
someone out there really appreciates the beard scratching, like both
you and Ryan have fantastic beards.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
For me, it's a tell, by the way. So like
if I start suddenly like scratching my beard, I'm usually
like ruminating on something or I don't have a good
answer for you. So I have to be really careful
about whether or not I do it at work.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You got me thinking, So keep an eye out for
that as you judge us as we give our presentations.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You're scratching your beard. You're full of shit. Yeah, but
the nice part is I am full of shit, So
it's not really a tough oh man, Okay, Ryan, are
your time? Sure? It's na. So the Great Pyramids a
little bit of background. Our host last week through this
(05:10):
out and he threw it onto the context of the
news that just recently came out where they used and
imaging a resonance imaging technology to basically observe or what
they believe they're observing. Are eight vertical shafts below the
first pyramid that goes something down over two thousand feet
with staircases that wrap around them that sit atop two cubes,
(05:34):
two cube structures that are roughly two hundred and thirty
two feet wide. So it's this like massive unexplained structure
underneath the pyramids that I think in reality, if it
is true, if they do prove it to be true,
it rewrites history a little bit and gives us a
different understanding of who we are as humans as it
(05:55):
relates to that time, and you know what the actual
technologies were where go it starts that it would be
a little bit of a Pandora's box. So in getting
into the Pyramids, I think the number one thing, or
the number one theme around all of it is that
we actually just don't know shit as it relates to
the Pyramids, and the most famous archaeologist around them is
(06:19):
doctor I think it's sahai hawaas he's like he's like
the Minister for Archaeology and like Egyptian archaeological history for
the Egyptian government, and he's like the top authority as
it relates to things. He's an interesting character because he
(06:41):
likes to pre bonk new ideas, so he's already all
over this thing saying it's bullshit. He likes to be
the guy with the final words. So there's kind of
this generic thing that if he's not in front of
the camera and his Indiana Jones hat announcing the finding
of the discovery, it's usually not true. Which, by the way,
there's receipt to show that he's done this multiple times
(07:02):
where he's been like, yeah, this is bullshit, it's not
a thing, and they have like physicists and everything come
through and they're go, no, this is this is pretty true,
and it's resulted in finding other chambers within the pyramids
that he's now like folded and said, okay, yeah, that's
that's actually there. But he's apparently a very stark nationalist,
and there's a generic concern by the Egyptians that you know,
(07:23):
they've written this whole narrative around the Pyramids and undermining
that narrative might hurt their tourism, might hurt their nationalism,
would would potentially make them look like liars, and you know, actually,
after everything I've read, they might be. But the thing is,
you know what's funny is I don't know that this
(07:43):
is a problem because if some of the discoveries that
are out there that aren't necessarily verified yet, if they
would allow them to be verified, in my opinion, would
actually draw in more tourism and would bring more people
in because it's it's pretty it's pretty interesting. There are
a whole bunch of theories around what they are. The
(08:06):
first is that they're a symbolic tomb or like a
cosmic launchpad. It's a misnomher that they're a tomb because
there's actually, which is kind of an interesting, non inscriptions
and virtually nothing attributing them to the Pharaohs that they're
believed to be attributed to. A vast majority of the
writing or hieroglyphs that tell the story of the structures
(08:28):
were written many years later than when the pyramids were
constructed and are in surrounding structures and not the actual
pyramids themselves. They believe there were places of spiritual rebirth.
So they're giant residence chambers. So they believe possibly that
the Pharaohs repurposed them, like they went into them, had
like spiritual experiences and were reborn ready to lead or
(08:51):
to bring on the next phase of whatever the society
was supposed to have at the time. And then the
really like fringe idea is that they're power plants. What's
interesting is I think these underlying structures may lend a
little bit to that concept because heavy resonance chambers, a
lot of the interior materials, especially in the places that
(09:12):
they referred to as tombs, were actually radioactive isotopes or
radioactive granite. Like I read a little bit into this
is like essentially the resonant vibration of water running underneath
of them can translate into actual energy generation through the
granite isotopes when it's isolated and consolidated at a fast level. Wow. Yeah,
(09:33):
that's you've heard, am I tracking to things?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Uh yeah, So like pyramid stuff is like just it's
news to like American archaeologists that study stone tools, like
as it is to you. Kind of how to explain this,
like I do from like the grapevine and like seeing
people share like in groups of it and stuff like that,
like when this stuff comes up, like what are your thoughts?
And like, I'm no expert on it, but I have
seen some like professional opinions like pop through and like
(09:58):
what people have been saying about it stuff. But the
interesting thing is I've seen there's a lot of pseudoscientists
that like love Egyptian stuff and they love talking about
the Great cover up and Zahi Joas, who I have
my issues with too, But like it seems the consensus
with the pseudo archaeologists and the fringe archaeologists, and like
two of my colleagues and two pseudo archaeologists went on
(10:21):
Piers Morgan the other day talking about it, and they
all agreed that, like, yeah, the power cell thing is
just like bullshit, which is like weird to have them
all agree. So that's kind of cool to me. But
the in terms of like the residence chamber and all
that that I have not the slightest clue on. I
(10:41):
just do know from most of what the archaeologists that
I've seen post about it or talk about it that
and this happens with probably most science, but archaeologists, archaeologia
all the time is like there's the baseline, here's the
study and what we found, and then like CBS or
cn IN or Fox, like they just take it and
(11:02):
the headlines go crazy and then this whole narrative gets
made of like crazy thing up ends Egyptian you know,
understanding and stuff. But like, really it's just a big
chamber beneath the pyramids that like then, and like the
the resonance imaging or like the not light ar whatever
it was they used to get down like Sea.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Star I think is what it was called, or like
I forget what though.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Okay, yeah something something. It's not as good as like
you would think it is. And like a lot of
the reconstructions that are getting put on these news outlets
make it look so much more fancy than it is.
It's just like the best way to describe it is
the opening scene of Jurassic Park. They using ground penetrating
radar to show you the velociraptor underneath the ground. There's
no even twenty five thirty years later from Jurassic Park,
(11:46):
there's no technology that you can see a full skeleton
like that underground. It would be like little It's like
you're looking at pong or like Endo sixty four under
the ground. So yeah, that that there's that. But I
will say Zahi Hawas and yeah, he's the minister of
something whatever we just pointed out, but he's like the
(12:08):
main guy for Egyptian egyptology over there. Yeah, archaeology does
have a problem with people that are like the spokespersons
for X, Y and Z, and I'm speaking as a
spokesperson for the dog aspect, but like the older crowd
has their ways and their views, and then he's probably
right about seventy to ninety percent of it, I would imagine,
(12:31):
But it's like that little bit that he's like, you know,
refuses to believe. Then let's all that other stuff creep
in where it's like, well you lie about this, and
then what else are you hiding kind of thing. And
then especially with something.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
He's a function of the government, right.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And it's a nationalistic thing.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, And I think like in other words, and I
also kind of lead into the fact that I think
their money's involved. Right, So ohay, if egypt is you know,
their per predominant way of making money is tourism, right,
they're going to do everything they can to protect Yeah.
That so I mean, I get the idea of the
(13:09):
deep protection of it in the you know, the avoiding
of other things because they don't want to rewrite the history.
And I would also tell you that I think like
there's a there's a pretty significant thing with in regionally
those cultures around being identified as a liar and protecting
the fact, protecting truth, or protecting what is perceived to
(13:32):
be truth. So I think it's all kind of like
in a related.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, and archaeology, there's so much that could go on
and talk about. But like the where it came from
was like, you know, rich British people in like the
eighteen hundreds going out and collecting curiosities and bringing it
back and then just like it was a stealing stealing
it a tool of colonialism essentially, and then from there
(13:58):
with uh you know, Captain Cook and like that was
even before that, but going around and exploring, Oh there's
a whole world out here, how do we systematically study
these peoples that are here? That's where anthropology comes from.
But then in the uh, you know, thirties, in Europe,
nationalism became a pretty big hot button issue, and archaeology
(14:21):
became a tool of like a certain country to like prove,
you know, that it was better than another. And Britain
was doing this forever too, trying to like say, like
the oldest humans are in Britain. And then the Chinese
government now is also trying to say, like the oldest
hominins are from China, and like it just becomes a
tool of the government. And it's interesting here in America
(14:44):
because it's like our history starts in fourteen ninety two here,
so like you can't claim much below that. Then, like
this whole cabal conspiracy that archaeologists are all like trying
to cover and hide the truth and stuff. It's like
I have nothing to do with that as an American archaeologist,
but I'm still in sometimes with like, well, why don't
you believe this?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
See that's you're literally leading to my final point, which is,
what are you really hiding from us?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
That's actually why you're here, And chat TBT brought you up.
The sphinx was a dog.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I was getting it.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yeah, so I hear where I was going. But it
can be used as a tool in that sense, and
especially in old world sites like that that are just
so fascinating. Oh that's where I was going. Was Egypt,
like to the Chinese, to you know, people in Peru,
to people in England, to people here in Tennessee, it's
like there's no culture on earth that ever exists. Like
(15:38):
Egypt is just so fascinating and like nothing's that similar
to it, and it's so mysterious and like even to
the Romans and the Greeks it was old, so like
it just there's such a layer of mystique to it
that like of course, like you're always going to want
to know more, and like someone's going to try to
control the narrative on it and stuff like that. And
I think Zahi has definitely or I should say doctor
(16:01):
haw Elsin never met him. He's always the guy on
History Channel like if you don't know what we're talking about,
people listening, like you've seen this guy.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
He likes to be in front of the camera.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, And I think that is problematic and it's causing
more problems than it needs to because then you get
all these great especially with Instagram and Twitter, people just
post whatever they want and say like look at this,
look at their hiding from you, and it's like dude,
that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, well this is like conceptually, I think we need
to get better as a society. Like I love I
love the word peer reviewed, peer reviewed science, right, and
so much of the shit isn't fully peer reviewed. So
this like finding right now is not fully peer reviewed.
And if you get to that full peer review and
get that full consensus, then you can feel I think,
a lot more comfortable with what's being But we're not
(16:47):
willing to wait. Come on, money can be made, No
money could be made if we don't just sensatialize it.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Exactly exactly and the money And that's the tunny thing.
Like as an archaeologist here, I don't make any money
off that stuff. And even if you are publishing something
that gets into that g like I was on a
site earlier this year or last year that was funded
by that geo and stuff like that, and like that
goes to like paying for buckets and like the excavator
(17:14):
like to come in with the track hoe to do it,
and like it doesn't really go to the arca and
it does pay like wages, but like not you're not
sitting in Scrooge picked up commounts of money, you know,
like swimming through like coins, but in egyptology you might be.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I don't know, are you ready for the next round?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Sorry, I hope that wasn't like a downer or a
head like.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
No, that was great, okay, cool, Yeah, you're go please.
I was like, keep vamping because I don't know that
I have ten minutes. I think I have like four,
but it might be a really quality for I don't know,
we'll see, okay.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
All right, ready, yees go oh key doki.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
When I thought pyramids, obviously, I thought the same thing,
you know, immediately thought of like, oh, the chambers that
they found, which I do find fascinating, and then sort
of saying what we're talking about with prebunking or whatever.
But when I actually I first saw the graphics and
I was like, that's insane. And then I saw what
they actually showed, and you're right, it doesn't. It's just
like pretty lights and you're like, how did you get
(18:27):
from that to this?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
But it's interesting. I love this idea. And I did
read that they they think it possibly could have been
from the civilization that was before the Egyptians that was
affected by the comet that hit Earth what thirteen thousand
years ago, which I did not know about.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I like read about.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I was like, oh, we did get hit with something
and it did wipe out a lot of things, and
just some fun random back towards as to like how old.
I didn't realize that mammoths and Egyptians lived at the
same time, but I do love I think it's interesting
this idea that they potentially built the pyramids on top
of an already existing thing that a previous civilization had created. Yeah,
(19:10):
I think that's cool because I think a lot of
ancient civilizations did that, where they built structures on top
of something else that was meaningful to them.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Well, they were saying that they actually think the Pharaohs
potentially just repurposed these things, like we attribute them to
the Pharaohs, but the pharaohs were like, oh, these are
pretty I like them.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well, and the idea too, that they were like whatever
civilization they they're I think looking into the idea that
they have more information about them than they think, because
the Egyptians wrote about these like previous gods and previous
kings and these like myths, and they're just like, what
if those weren't myths? What if those were real people?
And these were stories that were just sort of handed
down and by the time somebody got around to writing
them down. They were like, that's crazy, that can't be sure.
(19:50):
But it was anyway, fun little things for us all
to look up later. What my connection to this, though, was,
was the Orian correlation theory, which I did not know about,
and it turns out I have kind of a personal
connection too, so for thems who were like me up
until an hour ago. The Orian correlation theory is the
(20:14):
idea that the Pyramids are in the same line as
Orion's belt, and they just about are.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Oh. I thought this was the Ryan's correlation theory. I
thought this was about me.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And that's that every peerent wood, that's that everything was
built specifically for you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Ryan.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yes, that's they're very similar theories. We'll get into that
one another day.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
But the oh Ryan oh Oriyan's music, I do know.
I remember that commercial.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
UH correlation theory. Yeah, suits that the Egyptians built the
Pyramids purposely in the same pattern as Orion's belt, which
was a special I didn't realize. Just basically every civilization
UH latched on to that particular constellation. I think they
lashed into a lot of constellations, but that was a
big one. That's where they thought o Cyrus's soul was
(21:01):
was there, so it sort of makes sense considering he
was the god of the dead, I believe, for the
Egyptians and was the one who judged them in the afterlife,
and also the god of rebirth and you know, things
dealing with death and rebirth. And I was so excited
to see that because when I went to I went
to Egypt with my family a while ago, and you know,
(21:22):
sometimes you go to a place and you just sort
of have this feeling like that you can't expect. I'm
not a super like woo woo person, but like there
was a very like wou woo experience, Like I remember
just like going we went to the Pyramids and feeling
this just sort of like this like calm.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Were you a pharaoh in a previous life?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I think I was, or I was just like really jetlagged,
but I think I was a pharaoh. And even like
there were certain temples we went to where I just
had this this really familiar, comfortable feeling and if I
like would touch a stone, it like felt there was
just like this good positive feeling that I had that
I haven't had many other places, and especially someplace I'd
never been and I don't know why, this real strong
(22:03):
connection to it and anything especially to do with rebirth
and the dung beetle I really connected to. I ended
up getting a necklace of like a little dung beetle
because for them, they when they pushed, they believed like
a mythical dung.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Beetle like I pushed. Really you elaborate on this, yeah, No,
I have a really strong connection to pooh.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
We all do. Everybody does, Everybody plops.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
It is the one human constant we all identify with.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Listen, you quite literally get the shit out. It's very
psychologically satisfying, unless it doesn't go well and you die
like that guy in the Sopranos that I just watched
who dies having a heart attack. Anyway, I digress. No,
the dung beetle because they believed my camera that the
sun was basically like a big hot, boiling thing of
dung and there was a big beetle that like pushed
it up at the beginning of the day, and they
like so it was a really special symbol for them,
(22:52):
and I really latched onto that.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So cut to me.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
A few years later, I was doing a play in
Florida and I had this sort of like bad experience
and was sort of mentioning kind of a bad place.
And I would sit out at night after the show
on my little stoop and I looked up and the
first thing I always saw was a Ryan's belt. And
I don't know why, but seeing that constellation just sort
of made me feel better. And I can't explain it,
(23:17):
but it just was like it was reassuring. It was
almost like this little friend in the sky that was
kind of like looking out for me. Sure, as crazy
as that sounds, and even at the moment, I was like,
I am a nutbag, but like this is a thing
that is giving me comfort and I can't fully explain it,
but it is. And later my sister and I went
to get tattoos for the first time, and she was
(23:38):
getting this cool, complicated tattoo and I didn't know what
I wanted until I walked in, and I was like,
I want a Ryan's belt because it's something that makes
me feel good in there nights that I can't see
it obviously because obviously, but I would like to have it.
And so the guy, I was like, I just want
three little dots on my side, and that's my tattoo.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Hell yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
And I remember the tattoo artist was like, very seriously,
that's all you want. You want me to like connect them,
make them look like stars. I was like, no, because
I don't care if anybody else knows what this is,
I will know what this is. So I have three
little black dots. And it's also I have a bunch
of like moles too. So even I remember going back
and showing my boyfriend. I was like, look, I got
a tattoo and he was like, where, yeah, it literally
just looks like I have three moles. And even my
(24:16):
dermatologist I went at one point and I was like, so,
I have this one mole I'm concerned about, and she's
like that's fine, but these three, I'm really we should
test those. I was like, no, those are my tattoo,
and she was like she judged me so hard. She
was like, that's your tattoo. But I but I love it.
It makes me really happy and when I'm kind of stressed,
like I'll touch it and it makes me feel better.
So I was really excited when I now learned about
(24:36):
this Oriyan correlation theory that there was something about the
Pyramids maybe in line with that constellation and then also
the Pyramids in Mexico just outside Mexico City, where which
I went to and also had a really cool experience
while I was at those pyramids, and it's insing that
they are also in the same formation. So just for me,
it was this really cool thing where I was like, well,
(24:57):
this constellation that I have a very personal connection to
also could be in line with two places that I've
been to that also I'd kind of like whoo, feelings
at So I've never been one of those like aliens
did it or whatever, and I don't think aliens did it,
but it was just this whole like the fact that
their energies in the universe and stuff like that that
people talk about. It was just one of those moments
(25:17):
I was like, maybe there's more that we can't see,
feel or touch that just sort of inspires people or
touches you in a way that we're all more connected
than we think we are in a lot of those ways.
So that was just my exciting thing when I was
reading about this.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I think it is actually fact, like in other words,
of the facts on the pyramids, they are astronomically aligned,
like there's no like.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, I think there's any hiding that.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, well, because there are people when I was reading
more about the theory, there are a lot of scientists
that were like, that's not a thing. It's just a coincidence,
you know, like they didn't plan that on purpose. But
it seems pretty if it was an accident, it seems
like a pretty happy accident.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
There are a number of other mathematical constants throughout the
engineering and architecture, right, so apparently the Yeah, there's one
that's like the golden ratio and it follows the Earth's dimensions.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, like that one. I remember seeing several people like
that one gets latched onto a lot, and I've seen
people like debunk that as in like basically like whenever
people present that formula that it's like the exact circumforts
of the Earth, it's like whatever algorithm or whatever. Graham
Hancock says that it is like you can pump in
any number and plug it in and you'll get what
(26:27):
you want from it, which I that's just stuck that
I have no idea on, but I do know, yeah,
the like they are offset kind of like a Ryan's
belt in some way. I'm not sure about the ones
in Mexico. I did I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, they're they're pretty much the exact same ones too that.
Oh how do you pronounce it too? Yes, thank you
that they're they're also in the same formation.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Astrology has been like a human constant oh almost cultures.
I would say, I don't think it's I think it's
a neatly human to look at the sky and look
at constellations and feel potent. We feel comfort because it's
always there. It's reliably there, so another word, you can
always rely on it.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
I have three moles on my chest that literally are
in Orion's belt. I just remembered that, and I was like, yeah,
I'm not going to whip them out and show that's
covered in hair. But yeah, I was gonna joke that
we all are connected to it. But uh, yeah, I
think like what ry Ryan's saying, it's like obviously Napoleon
and Alexander the Great and Augustus felt the same thing
when they went to Egypt, and they were like this
(27:28):
is cool, uh, and like it's just such a unique
Like Napoleon wrote extensively about like the same thing. He
was just like this is so sick. When he gets here,
try to take Egypt. A lot of times, we you know,
as modern humans, don't really appreciate looking up as much
as like, you know, we're looking down and reading and
(27:48):
like looking at the screens and stuff. You want to
get that metaphysical with it. But like back then, like
especially if you think of like the Polynesians, they made
it all the way to Hawaii and Easter Island using stars,
so it's like the whole night sky was just completely
different to them than it is now. So it would
make sense that if you have one, if you're like
a god king or a deity, or you want to
(28:09):
get closer to the sun god, which the Estecs and
the Maya and the Egyptians had a sun god in
the sense you want to get higher to that. The
best way to get there is to stackstones systematically higher
because you can't do it straight up like we can
with steel, So you're going to get there. And then
if you're looking up and you see those constellations, I'm
pretty sure Orion is the brightest one, because growing up
(28:30):
in New York City, it's the only one I could see.
That's probably just that and to my knowledge, but whether
they were like sitting around a table contemplating the circumference
of the earth and stuff, because I think they all
knew the earth was round. Pythagoras knew that, and not Aristotle.
One of them, the one of the Ptolemy scholars knew
like basically on obelisks. They did experiments. Carl Sagan talked
(28:52):
about it. It could tell that it was the earth
was round. There's probably people that will debunk that it's
connected to you know, it's an orion's belt shape, but
it seems to look that way to me. I don't
whether that was intentional or not.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
We know consistently that a lot of things in time
have been like the way things are built, like, it
is consistent that we can find the astronomical patterns and stuff.
I think this was just an innate human behavior because
it was the only thing that was constant.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And yeah, and everyone's looking at the same sky. Yeah, yeah,
I guess different hemispheres, it's different.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But still similar exposure over time.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, you're gonna see the same Everyone sees the same
thing at some point in the year. Yeah, there's that.
And then there's the whole theory that they're all like
the megalithic structures and pyramids on Earth are on the
specific line around the Earth. That's like been debunked quite
a bit because then it's like then you're leaving out
you know, all the Mississippians, and you're leaving out stuff
that happens in like other parts of Africa.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
That's not a story. If we do that, it's not
as fun. David.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I think it's like if you go through Mexico, Egypt
and like settler an korwatt Is in Southeast Asia or
whatever those ones are, it's all like, but if you
draw a line around the world, it's a sphere. In
any direction, you're gonna hit something that's interesting. So maybe
not through the middle of the Pacific, but well, I
guess Easter Island is on that line. From when I said,
there's the whole thing about the water erosion on the
Sphinx too, and that's a big Hancock thing that he
(30:11):
talks about. And zahieav Loas is like no, and like
from nerds that I know that like study rock and
like geology and geoarchaeology is a huge aspect of understanding archaeology.
So how like a archaeological site's form and deposit and whatnot.
The Giza plateau is a very charstick environment, meaning it's
like very wet limestone that can like easily use chiseled.
(30:36):
The water makes these big like reservoirs and stuff, kind
of like in Mexico with the Maya. That's a very
carstick environment. So like the water erosion on the Sphinx
is just water erosion from the stone that was already
on there that they were then chiseling and like. So
that's what you're seeing. But also I'm not explaining that perfectly,
(30:57):
but these big chambers that are underneath the pyramids, I
would imagine this probably more because it's such a carstick
environment where there's like holes and big reservoirs under the ground,
There's gonna be a lot more of that. And now
that we have this tech that can penetrate beneath these
giant stone structures to see that, you're probably gonna find
a lot more. And maybe that's building on top of
there might have been something under there that the new
(31:17):
pharaohs and build on top of. You know.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Well, And when I was talking to my sister, I
keep bringing it up. She researches a lot. She's one
of my go to people who are like she knows
a lot more facts than I do. We were talking
about this, and her theory was that she said, they
also may have found more tunnels, almost like an ant
hill that just like keep going out into the desert
from those core pillars.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
And that would track then.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, and she was like, I wonder if it's not.
They were like, is it this? She was like, I
wonder if it's just as simple as it's hot. And
there were times of year where they just dug down
and they lived worked did things underground because it was
just more comfortable or for preservation purposes, Like it's not
anything super exciting. It was like an Egyptian shopping mall underground.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Preserve food pretty well down there too.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
She didn't put it that way. I'm putting it that way.
She was much more eloquent. I just like to imagine
that there were like there was a mall of Egypt
underneath the you know, they were like, welcome to Egyptian
Neiman Marcus.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I'm going to the mirror store right now. It was
all under there.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
You never there were a bunch of like old Egyptian
folks getting their steps in under there like powerwalking. Yeah. Anyway,
so that well, oh I am, we're way over my time.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
But actually you kind of finished right on time and
then we just had like a nice chat. Oh my god,
let us go, David, you have the hard part now,
who wont oh.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Man, I don't know if I can do that.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
You can also proclaim yourself the water that does happen.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Well, I feel weird because like I want to be
able to say like hell yeah to this stuff, but
like it just as like an archaeologist, I'm in this
weird thing of like, well, I have to be skeptical
about stuff, but then other things too. It's like I
do want to believe cool shit and like new stuff
that comes out. So I like, I didn't mean to
be like I don't know about all of this, but.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
You're pretty allowed to be.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
So oh, I appreciate that. So thank you. I guess
just based on you know, Napoleon and Alexander the Great
Field in the same way I liked your story, Michael, like.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Just saw we all kind of cheers Michael, Yeah, in.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
The ethereal way, Ryan's I think yours was more like,
you know, ruder than here's what the facts are and stuff.
So I appreciate them both. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
But oh yeah, this is also you should know I
very rarely win, so this is exciting.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I was starting to feel bad for Michael. Now I
can be back on it. Now I'm gonna get angry
if he wins again. So nice.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
As an archaeologist and like someone who was fascinated by
the past, I think something that humans always have. And
this is why again Egypt is such a worldwide, you know, phenomenon,
and like everyone wants to emulate it in some way.
People like old stuff. And I noticed like a lot
of stuff that I worked on when I was working
(33:55):
in Wyoming. You have like thirteen thousand years of history there.
You have like the Paleolithic peace that were hunting mammoths,
and then you have homesteaders with the Oregon Trail, and
then there's like modern Wyoming, and like you would see
in like little rock shelters or like caves where people
were camping for the night, I could find like thirteen
(34:15):
thousand year old tools or like maybe seven thousand year
old tools, and then like a cowboy belt buckle from
some rancher that was there, and whether they both spent
the night in that shelter at different times and they
left the tools there, or the cowboy found that and
brought it to the thing with them and just left
it there. You see that quite often. And like homesteads,
like you see a lot of people just like there's
(34:36):
probably this German family came through dougle Well had a
house there and then they moved on went to Oregon,
but they buried everything in this big well pit and
there were arrowheads in there that they clearly the kids
probably found and were like, oh, this is cool. So
like everyone has that connection to like they like old stuff,
and like Chinshi Huang and China like made a whole
(34:57):
terra cotta army of like artifacts live in the afterlofe
with So it's like we all, I don't know, we
all like that Heradicus ruttle about Egypt or ancient stuff
in ancient Greece. So we just have a connection. And
like I guess where I'm going is you're I don't
think it's that wu wu at all to say, like
you know, you you feel the gravity of the place
(35:18):
when you're there in Egypt and especially and I haven't
been to the stuff in Mexico yet. I'd love to,
but just to see because I think Tea Tea Khan
was ancient to the Aztecs when they got there, they
really was.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, so they didn't know who built it they were.
It predates them by a couple thousand years. I want
to say, I've been to the ones in Guatemala and
I assume that's the same.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Those are Mayan?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Is that Mayan? Yeah? No, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Mayans were like a five hundred six hundred years before then.
But yeah, Mayans are like the time of like the Crusades.
The Aztecs were like at their height when the Spanish
got there.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I have to tell you, I think you know you
were like, ah, you know, this is like this is
like deal a Dennis dealing with an ankle. You were
absolutely prefer thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Oh yeah, no problem. It's like what dentist does have
to go to like med school? Still, so like you
know some stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well that's true, but I mean in this scenario, you
would make a great pediatrist.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Tarantino would be proud.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Do you have a word for us? Do you have
our next word?
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Hmm? Geology, Like a geologist to talk about like the
the Giza plateau being so carstick and stuff like that,
like the something that never gets talked about, even if
it's not to do with Egypt, is just geology and
like how mountains form and how like you know, things
deposit and how like if you think of the Rockies,
it's two tectonic plates that just made a wave, and
(36:40):
then the Wyoming and Kansas are all just the ripples
of that way.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Geology is cool to me.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, geologology is. Actually I have so many things I
feel like I can go to and Well's personal stories,
So that's a good one. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, no problem a rock on.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Oh my god, Sorry, I'm gonna I'm gonna see myself
out and again.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Friends, David Howe YouTube podcast.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah, David and how go check out Instagram be the
best one to find me and see the most stuff
on I would say,
I will tell you in reflection, I did go back
and listen to the stuff I was talking about his
day and then actually had a conversation with somebody who
does quantum computing. I definitely drew out some connections I
probably shouldn't have, hey, but whatever, I think it sounded good.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Listen, it's our show. And you used a lot of
multi Slavic words, so I was there with you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And it's not like a Ted Talk. It's more like
a Bob Talk.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Like that's true, Oh, Bob Talk.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I liked that. Welcome back to White Noise. I'm so
excited about our guest today. Ryan.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You found our special guest today, so please please do
the honors.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I will have to tell you I did give the
chat GPTs a little bit of credit here. I went
to a chattoopt and I said, hey, we need to
find somebody who's cool, who knows archaeology that would be
open to being on a podcast, and chat GPT was like,
you need to go talk to David.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So David, welcome, Hi, thanks for finding me.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I know I'm on the chat GPTs now, so I
feel cool.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I think we're all on the chat GPTs. It's over. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah, we're cooked.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
We're cooked, and they have all of us.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
They're like, you're there because there is a David Ian
Howe that they've already created.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, it's just like a little like Pokemon version of
me somewhere into the PC.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
It's like, are you actually the real David or are
you the chat GPT David?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Her virtual David is the real David.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm sorry, that's a question for my therapist, which I
will come back with.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I love that that's how this all came about. And
you're I also personally, now that I have found you,
I can't wait to dive into your podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah tell us, Well, the podcast is new and fledgling.
I'd say I had an original podcast. I did original.
I had an older podcast I did with two other
colleagues called A Life in Ruins That was what the
Archaeology Podcast Network, and we interviewed archaeologists about, you know,
their careers and like their research and whatnot, and then
(01:57):
mostly just other grad students at the time. But now
I have two pots that are my own, and one's
The David and House Show, and that is just interviewing
people I find interesting and then Ethno Sinology it's basically
my YouTube channel but like audio form, if that makes sense.
So it's supposed to be about dogs, but I do
anything from well ethno, sinology is the study of dogs
and human cultural contexts. So anything to do with archaeology
(02:19):
and dogs kind of just I lump in there. But
I have so many interests that all just kind of blend.
Most every episode's about dogs in some way.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, well, archaeology and dogs are two things that I
very much nerd out about. So that's what I mean
I'm about to do. I'm about to become your number
one fan and so okay, this is a very exciting
day for me.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah. The archaeology background is so perfect for our topic today,
which is the Pyramids. Do you know anything about them?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I'm a prehistoric archaeologist, so asking me about that would
be like asking your dentist about your ankle. But we
can talk about it if that's great. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Can you imagine if you're like, nope, I'm out go back. Well,
there's a wasp in my hoigh I have to address.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Oh right, yank you for reminding me. I forgot about that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
If David just like disappears, it's because there's a wasp
currently stalking him in his house that you've already done
battle with and you won the battle.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You're just not sure if you've won the war.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, But yeah I can. I can talk
to Pyramids great.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And the way we work too, I feel like, in
case you don't know, we'll get a topic and it
literally is just whatever it makes each of us think
of so and we each get ten minutes to riff
on that topic, and it's the It's like the least
formal ted talk you've ever seen, because we are experts
on none of these things, and so feel free to
(03:38):
chime in. And like with photosynthesis last week, I was
talking about things and our guest was fully correcting me
on certain Okay, so feel free to be like Michael,
you're a dum dum because at the end of it,
you choose a winner and whatever that means for you.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
All Right, Pyramids, which one of us would you like
to hear go first? Do you get to choose?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
You're in the center of the screen, Michael, and I've
only been staring at you, so I'm gonna let Ryan speak,
I guess for a second, so I don't just keep
my eyes in one direction.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I mean, it's fine if you just want to look
at me. I get it.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
You got a nice background every thing.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I'm not hurt.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Get my beard trimmed like two weeks ago. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You look great.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Mainly not to look at it. It's like because I
keep scratching it, which does pick up on the microphone.
But anyway, that's a difference.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Oh, it suns like a whole asmr thing. I'm sure
someone out there really appreciates the beard scratching, like both
you and Ryan have fantastic beards.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
For me, it's a tell, by the way. So like
if I start suddenly like scratching my beard, I'm usually
like ruminating on something or I don't have a good
answer for you. So I have to be really careful
about whether or not I do it at work.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You got me thinking, So keep an eye out for
that as you judge us as we give our presentations.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You're scratching your beard. You're full of shit. Yeah, but
the nice part is I am full of shit, So
it's not really a tough oh man, Okay, Ryan, are
your time? Sure? It's na. So the Great Pyramids a
little bit of background. Our host last week through this
(05:10):
out and he threw it onto the context of the
news that just recently came out where they used and
imaging a resonance imaging technology to basically observe or what
they believe they're observing. Are eight vertical shafts below the
first pyramid that goes something down over two thousand feet
with staircases that wrap around them that sit atop two cubes,
(05:34):
two cube structures that are roughly two hundred and thirty
two feet wide. So it's this like massive unexplained structure
underneath the pyramids that I think in reality, if it
is true, if they do prove it to be true,
it rewrites history a little bit and gives us a
different understanding of who we are as humans as it
(05:55):
relates to that time, and you know what the actual
technologies were where go it starts that it would be
a little bit of a Pandora's box. So in getting
into the Pyramids, I think the number one thing, or
the number one theme around all of it is that
we actually just don't know shit as it relates to
the Pyramids, and the most famous archaeologist around them is
(06:19):
doctor I think it's sahai hawaas he's like he's like
the Minister for Archaeology and like Egyptian archaeological history for
the Egyptian government, and he's like the top authority as
it relates to things. He's an interesting character because he
(06:41):
likes to pre bonk new ideas, so he's already all
over this thing saying it's bullshit. He likes to be
the guy with the final words. So there's kind of
this generic thing that if he's not in front of
the camera and his Indiana Jones hat announcing the finding
of the discovery, it's usually not true. Which, by the way,
there's receipt to show that he's done this multiple times
(07:02):
where he's been like, yeah, this is bullshit, it's not
a thing, and they have like physicists and everything come
through and they're go, no, this is this is pretty true,
and it's resulted in finding other chambers within the pyramids
that he's now like folded and said, okay, yeah, that's
that's actually there. But he's apparently a very stark nationalist,
and there's a generic concern by the Egyptians that you know,
(07:23):
they've written this whole narrative around the Pyramids and undermining
that narrative might hurt their tourism, might hurt their nationalism,
would would potentially make them look like liars, and you know, actually,
after everything I've read, they might be. But the thing is,
you know what's funny is I don't know that this
(07:43):
is a problem because if some of the discoveries that
are out there that aren't necessarily verified yet, if they
would allow them to be verified, in my opinion, would
actually draw in more tourism and would bring more people
in because it's it's pretty it's pretty interesting. There are
a whole bunch of theories around what they are. The
(08:06):
first is that they're a symbolic tomb or like a
cosmic launchpad. It's a misnomher that they're a tomb because
there's actually, which is kind of an interesting, non inscriptions
and virtually nothing attributing them to the Pharaohs that they're
believed to be attributed to. A vast majority of the
writing or hieroglyphs that tell the story of the structures
(08:28):
were written many years later than when the pyramids were
constructed and are in surrounding structures and not the actual
pyramids themselves. They believe there were places of spiritual rebirth.
So they're giant residence chambers. So they believe possibly that
the Pharaohs repurposed them, like they went into them, had
like spiritual experiences and were reborn ready to lead or
(08:51):
to bring on the next phase of whatever the society
was supposed to have at the time. And then the
really like fringe idea is that they're power plants. What's
interesting is I think these underlying structures may lend a
little bit to that concept because heavy resonance chambers, a
lot of the interior materials, especially in the places that
(09:12):
they referred to as tombs, were actually radioactive isotopes or
radioactive granite. Like I read a little bit into this
is like essentially the resonant vibration of water running underneath
of them can translate into actual energy generation through the
granite isotopes when it's isolated and consolidated at a fast level. Wow. Yeah,
(09:33):
that's you've heard, am I tracking to things?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Uh yeah, So like pyramid stuff is like just it's
news to like American archaeologists that study stone tools, like
as it is to you. Kind of how to explain this,
like I do from like the grapevine and like seeing
people share like in groups of it and stuff like that,
like when this stuff comes up, like what are your thoughts?
And like, I'm no expert on it, but I have
seen some like professional opinions like pop through and like
(09:58):
what people have been saying about it stuff. But the
interesting thing is I've seen there's a lot of pseudoscientists
that like love Egyptian stuff and they love talking about
the Great cover up and Zahi Joas, who I have
my issues with too, But like it seems the consensus
with the pseudo archaeologists and the fringe archaeologists, and like
two of my colleagues and two pseudo archaeologists went on
(10:21):
Piers Morgan the other day talking about it, and they
all agreed that, like, yeah, the power cell thing is
just like bullshit, which is like weird to have them
all agree. So that's kind of cool to me. But
the in terms of like the residence chamber and all
that that I have not the slightest clue on. I
(10:41):
just do know from most of what the archaeologists that
I've seen post about it or talk about it that
and this happens with probably most science, but archaeologists, archaeologia
all the time is like there's the baseline, here's the
study and what we found, and then like CBS or
cn IN or Fox, like they just take it and
(11:02):
the headlines go crazy and then this whole narrative gets
made of like crazy thing up ends Egyptian you know,
understanding and stuff. But like, really it's just a big
chamber beneath the pyramids that like then, and like the
the resonance imaging or like the not light ar whatever
it was they used to get down like Sea.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Star I think is what it was called, or like
I forget what though.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Okay, yeah something something. It's not as good as like
you would think it is. And like a lot of
the reconstructions that are getting put on these news outlets
make it look so much more fancy than it is.
It's just like the best way to describe it is
the opening scene of Jurassic Park. They using ground penetrating
radar to show you the velociraptor underneath the ground. There's
no even twenty five thirty years later from Jurassic Park,
(11:46):
there's no technology that you can see a full skeleton
like that underground. It would be like little It's like
you're looking at pong or like Endo sixty four under
the ground. So yeah, that that there's that. But I
will say Zahi Hawas and yeah, he's the minister of
something whatever we just pointed out, but he's like the
(12:08):
main guy for Egyptian egyptology over there. Yeah, archaeology does
have a problem with people that are like the spokespersons
for X, Y and Z, and I'm speaking as a
spokesperson for the dog aspect, but like the older crowd
has their ways and their views, and then he's probably
right about seventy to ninety percent of it, I would imagine,
(12:31):
But it's like that little bit that he's like, you know,
refuses to believe. Then let's all that other stuff creep
in where it's like, well you lie about this, and
then what else are you hiding kind of thing. And
then especially with something.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
He's a function of the government, right.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And it's a nationalistic thing.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, And I think like in other words, and I
also kind of lead into the fact that I think
their money's involved. Right, So ohay, if egypt is you know,
their per predominant way of making money is tourism, right,
they're going to do everything they can to protect Yeah.
That so I mean, I get the idea of the
(13:09):
deep protection of it in the you know, the avoiding
of other things because they don't want to rewrite the history.
And I would also tell you that I think like
there's a there's a pretty significant thing with in regionally
those cultures around being identified as a liar and protecting
the fact, protecting truth, or protecting what is perceived to
(13:32):
be truth. So I think it's all kind of like
in a related.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, and archaeology, there's so much that could go on
and talk about. But like the where it came from
was like, you know, rich British people in like the
eighteen hundreds going out and collecting curiosities and bringing it
back and then just like it was a stealing stealing
it a tool of colonialism essentially, and then from there
(13:58):
with uh you know, Captain Cook and like that was
even before that, but going around and exploring, Oh there's
a whole world out here, how do we systematically study
these peoples that are here? That's where anthropology comes from.
But then in the uh, you know, thirties, in Europe,
nationalism became a pretty big hot button issue, and archaeology
(14:21):
became a tool of like a certain country to like prove,
you know, that it was better than another. And Britain
was doing this forever too, trying to like say, like
the oldest humans are in Britain. And then the Chinese
government now is also trying to say, like the oldest
hominins are from China, and like it just becomes a
tool of the government. And it's interesting here in America
(14:44):
because it's like our history starts in fourteen ninety two here,
so like you can't claim much below that. Then, like
this whole cabal conspiracy that archaeologists are all like trying
to cover and hide the truth and stuff. It's like
I have nothing to do with that as an American archaeologist,
but I'm still in sometimes with like, well, why don't
you believe this?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
See that's you're literally leading to my final point, which is,
what are you really hiding from us?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
That's actually why you're here, And chat TBT brought you up.
The sphinx was a dog.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I was getting it.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yeah, so I hear where I was going. But it
can be used as a tool in that sense, and
especially in old world sites like that that are just
so fascinating. Oh that's where I was going. Was Egypt,
like to the Chinese, to you know, people in Peru,
to people in England, to people here in Tennessee, it's
like there's no culture on earth that ever exists. Like
(15:38):
Egypt is just so fascinating and like nothing's that similar
to it, and it's so mysterious and like even to
the Romans and the Greeks it was old, so like
it just there's such a layer of mystique to it
that like of course, like you're always going to want
to know more, and like someone's going to try to
control the narrative on it and stuff like that. And
I think Zahi has definitely or I should say doctor
(16:01):
haw Elsin never met him. He's always the guy on
History Channel like if you don't know what we're talking about,
people listening, like you've seen this guy.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
He likes to be in front of the camera.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, And I think that is problematic and it's causing
more problems than it needs to because then you get
all these great especially with Instagram and Twitter, people just
post whatever they want and say like look at this,
look at their hiding from you, and it's like dude,
that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, well this is like conceptually, I think we need
to get better as a society. Like I love I
love the word peer reviewed, peer reviewed science, right, and
so much of the shit isn't fully peer reviewed. So
this like finding right now is not fully peer reviewed.
And if you get to that full peer review and
get that full consensus, then you can feel I think,
a lot more comfortable with what's being But we're not
(16:47):
willing to wait. Come on, money can be made, No
money could be made if we don't just sensatialize it.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Exactly exactly and the money And that's the tunny thing.
Like as an archaeologist here, I don't make any money
off that stuff. And even if you are publishing something
that gets into that g like I was on a
site earlier this year or last year that was funded
by that geo and stuff like that, and like that
goes to like paying for buckets and like the excavator
(17:14):
like to come in with the track hoe to do it,
and like it doesn't really go to the arca and
it does pay like wages, but like not you're not
sitting in Scrooge picked up commounts of money, you know,
like swimming through like coins, but in egyptology you might be.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I don't know, are you ready for the next round?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Sorry, I hope that wasn't like a downer or a
head like.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
No, that was great, okay, cool, Yeah, you're go please.
I was like, keep vamping because I don't know that
I have ten minutes. I think I have like four,
but it might be a really quality for I don't know,
we'll see, okay.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
All right, ready, yees go oh key doki.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
When I thought pyramids, obviously, I thought the same thing,
you know, immediately thought of like, oh, the chambers that
they found, which I do find fascinating, and then sort
of saying what we're talking about with prebunking or whatever.
But when I actually I first saw the graphics and
I was like, that's insane. And then I saw what
they actually showed, and you're right, it doesn't. It's just
like pretty lights and you're like, how did you get
(18:27):
from that to this?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
But it's interesting. I love this idea. And I did
read that they they think it possibly could have been
from the civilization that was before the Egyptians that was
affected by the comet that hit Earth what thirteen thousand
years ago, which I did not know about.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I like read about.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I was like, oh, we did get hit with something
and it did wipe out a lot of things, and
just some fun random back towards as to like how old.
I didn't realize that mammoths and Egyptians lived at the
same time, but I do love I think it's interesting
this idea that they potentially built the pyramids on top
of an already existing thing that a previous civilization had created. Yeah,
(19:10):
I think that's cool because I think a lot of
ancient civilizations did that, where they built structures on top
of something else that was meaningful to them.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Well, they were saying that they actually think the Pharaohs
potentially just repurposed these things, like we attribute them to
the Pharaohs, but the pharaohs were like, oh, these are
pretty I like them.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well, and the idea too, that they were like whatever
civilization they they're I think looking into the idea that
they have more information about them than they think, because
the Egyptians wrote about these like previous gods and previous
kings and these like myths, and they're just like, what
if those weren't myths? What if those were real people?
And these were stories that were just sort of handed
down and by the time somebody got around to writing
them down. They were like, that's crazy, that can't be sure.
(19:50):
But it was anyway, fun little things for us all
to look up later. What my connection to this, though, was,
was the Orian correlation theory, which I did not know about,
and it turns out I have kind of a personal
connection too, so for thems who were like me up
until an hour ago. The Orian correlation theory is the
(20:14):
idea that the Pyramids are in the same line as
Orion's belt, and they just about are.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Oh. I thought this was the Ryan's correlation theory. I
thought this was about me.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And that's that every peerent wood, that's that everything was
built specifically for you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Ryan.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yes, that's they're very similar theories. We'll get into that
one another day.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
But the oh Ryan oh Oriyan's music, I do know.
I remember that commercial.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
UH correlation theory. Yeah, suits that the Egyptians built the
Pyramids purposely in the same pattern as Orion's belt, which
was a special I didn't realize. Just basically every civilization
UH latched on to that particular constellation. I think they
lashed into a lot of constellations, but that was a
big one. That's where they thought o Cyrus's soul was
(21:01):
was there, so it sort of makes sense considering he
was the god of the dead, I believe, for the
Egyptians and was the one who judged them in the afterlife,
and also the god of rebirth and you know, things
dealing with death and rebirth. And I was so excited
to see that because when I went to I went
to Egypt with my family a while ago, and you know,
(21:22):
sometimes you go to a place and you just sort
of have this feeling like that you can't expect. I'm
not a super like woo woo person, but like there
was a very like wou woo experience, Like I remember
just like going we went to the Pyramids and feeling
this just sort of like this like calm.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Were you a pharaoh in a previous life?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I think I was, or I was just like really jetlagged,
but I think I was a pharaoh. And even like
there were certain temples we went to where I just
had this this really familiar, comfortable feeling and if I
like would touch a stone, it like felt there was
just like this good positive feeling that I had that
I haven't had many other places, and especially someplace I'd
never been and I don't know why, this real strong
(22:03):
connection to it and anything especially to do with rebirth
and the dung beetle I really connected to. I ended
up getting a necklace of like a little dung beetle
because for them, they when they pushed, they believed like
a mythical dung.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Beetle like I pushed. Really you elaborate on this, yeah, No,
I have a really strong connection to pooh.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
We all do. Everybody does, Everybody plops.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
It is the one human constant we all identify with.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Listen, you quite literally get the shit out. It's very
psychologically satisfying, unless it doesn't go well and you die
like that guy in the Sopranos that I just watched
who dies having a heart attack. Anyway, I digress. No,
the dung beetle because they believed my camera that the
sun was basically like a big hot, boiling thing of
dung and there was a big beetle that like pushed
it up at the beginning of the day, and they
like so it was a really special symbol for them,
(22:52):
and I really latched onto that.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So cut to me.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
A few years later, I was doing a play in
Florida and I had this sort of like bad experience
and was sort of mentioning kind of a bad place.
And I would sit out at night after the show
on my little stoop and I looked up and the
first thing I always saw was a Ryan's belt. And
I don't know why, but seeing that constellation just sort
of made me feel better. And I can't explain it,
(23:17):
but it just was like it was reassuring. It was
almost like this little friend in the sky that was
kind of like looking out for me. Sure, as crazy
as that sounds, and even at the moment, I was like,
I am a nutbag, but like this is a thing
that is giving me comfort and I can't fully explain it,
but it is. And later my sister and I went
to get tattoos for the first time, and she was
(23:38):
getting this cool, complicated tattoo and I didn't know what
I wanted until I walked in, and I was like,
I want a Ryan's belt because it's something that makes
me feel good in there nights that I can't see
it obviously because obviously, but I would like to have it.
And so the guy, I was like, I just want
three little dots on my side, and that's my tattoo.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Hell yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
And I remember the tattoo artist was like, very seriously,
that's all you want. You want me to like connect them,
make them look like stars. I was like, no, because
I don't care if anybody else knows what this is,
I will know what this is. So I have three
little black dots. And it's also I have a bunch
of like moles too. So even I remember going back
and showing my boyfriend. I was like, look, I got
a tattoo and he was like, where, yeah, it literally
just looks like I have three moles. And even my
(24:16):
dermatologist I went at one point and I was like, so,
I have this one mole I'm concerned about, and she's
like that's fine, but these three, I'm really we should
test those. I was like, no, those are my tattoo,
and she was like she judged me so hard. She
was like, that's your tattoo. But I but I love it.
It makes me really happy and when I'm kind of stressed,
like I'll touch it and it makes me feel better.
So I was really excited when I now learned about
(24:36):
this Oriyan correlation theory that there was something about the
Pyramids maybe in line with that constellation and then also
the Pyramids in Mexico just outside Mexico City, where which
I went to and also had a really cool experience
while I was at those pyramids, and it's insing that
they are also in the same formation. So just for me,
it was this really cool thing where I was like, well,
(24:57):
this constellation that I have a very personal connection to
also could be in line with two places that I've
been to that also I'd kind of like whoo, feelings
at So I've never been one of those like aliens
did it or whatever, and I don't think aliens did it,
but it was just this whole like the fact that
their energies in the universe and stuff like that that
people talk about. It was just one of those moments
(25:17):
I was like, maybe there's more that we can't see,
feel or touch that just sort of inspires people or
touches you in a way that we're all more connected
than we think we are in a lot of those ways.
So that was just my exciting thing when I was
reading about this.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I think it is actually fact, like in other words,
of the facts on the pyramids, they are astronomically aligned,
like there's no like.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, I think there's any hiding that.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, well, because there are people when I was reading
more about the theory, there are a lot of scientists
that were like, that's not a thing. It's just a coincidence,
you know, like they didn't plan that on purpose. But
it seems pretty if it was an accident, it seems
like a pretty happy accident.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
There are a number of other mathematical constants throughout the
engineering and architecture, right, so apparently the Yeah, there's one
that's like the golden ratio and it follows the Earth's dimensions.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, like that one. I remember seeing several people like
that one gets latched onto a lot, and I've seen
people like debunk that as in like basically like whenever
people present that formula that it's like the exact circumforts
of the Earth, it's like whatever algorithm or whatever. Graham
Hancock says that it is like you can pump in
any number and plug it in and you'll get what
(26:27):
you want from it, which I that's just stuck that
I have no idea on, but I do know, yeah,
the like they are offset kind of like a Ryan's
belt in some way. I'm not sure about the ones
in Mexico. I did I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, they're they're pretty much the exact same ones too that.
Oh how do you pronounce it too? Yes, thank you
that they're they're also in the same formation.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Astrology has been like a human constant oh almost cultures.
I would say, I don't think it's I think it's
a neatly human to look at the sky and look
at constellations and feel potent. We feel comfort because it's
always there. It's reliably there, so another word, you can
always rely on it.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
I have three moles on my chest that literally are
in Orion's belt. I just remembered that, and I was like, yeah,
I'm not going to whip them out and show that's
covered in hair. But yeah, I was gonna joke that
we all are connected to it. But uh, yeah, I
think like what ry Ryan's saying, it's like obviously Napoleon
and Alexander the Great and Augustus felt the same thing
when they went to Egypt, and they were like this
(27:28):
is cool, uh, and like it's just such a unique
Like Napoleon wrote extensively about like the same thing. He
was just like this is so sick. When he gets here,
try to take Egypt. A lot of times, we you know,
as modern humans, don't really appreciate looking up as much
as like, you know, we're looking down and reading and
(27:48):
like looking at the screens and stuff. You want to
get that metaphysical with it. But like back then, like
especially if you think of like the Polynesians, they made
it all the way to Hawaii and Easter Island using stars,
so it's like the whole night sky was just completely
different to them than it is now. So it would
make sense that if you have one, if you're like
a god king or a deity, or you want to
(28:09):
get closer to the sun god, which the Estecs and
the Maya and the Egyptians had a sun god in
the sense you want to get higher to that. The
best way to get there is to stackstones systematically higher
because you can't do it straight up like we can
with steel, So you're going to get there. And then
if you're looking up and you see those constellations, I'm
pretty sure Orion is the brightest one, because growing up
(28:30):
in New York City, it's the only one I could see.
That's probably just that and to my knowledge, but whether
they were like sitting around a table contemplating the circumference
of the earth and stuff, because I think they all
knew the earth was round. Pythagoras knew that, and not Aristotle.
One of them, the one of the Ptolemy scholars knew
like basically on obelisks. They did experiments. Carl Sagan talked
(28:52):
about it. It could tell that it was the earth
was round. There's probably people that will debunk that it's
connected to you know, it's an orion's belt shape, but
it seems to look that way to me. I don't
whether that was intentional or not.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
We know consistently that a lot of things in time
have been like the way things are built, like, it
is consistent that we can find the astronomical patterns and stuff.
I think this was just an innate human behavior because
it was the only thing that was constant.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And yeah, and everyone's looking at the same sky. Yeah, yeah,
I guess different hemispheres, it's different.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But still similar exposure over time.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, you're gonna see the same Everyone sees the same
thing at some point in the year. Yeah, there's that.
And then there's the whole theory that they're all like
the megalithic structures and pyramids on Earth are on the
specific line around the Earth. That's like been debunked quite
a bit because then it's like then you're leaving out
you know, all the Mississippians, and you're leaving out stuff
that happens in like other parts of Africa.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
That's not a story. If we do that, it's not
as fun. David.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I think it's like if you go through Mexico, Egypt
and like settler an korwatt Is in Southeast Asia or
whatever those ones are, it's all like, but if you
draw a line around the world, it's a sphere. In
any direction, you're gonna hit something that's interesting. So maybe
not through the middle of the Pacific, but well, I
guess Easter Island is on that line. From when I said,
there's the whole thing about the water erosion on the
Sphinx too, and that's a big Hancock thing that he
(30:11):
talks about. And zahieav Loas is like no, and like
from nerds that I know that like study rock and
like geology and geoarchaeology is a huge aspect of understanding archaeology.
So how like a archaeological site's form and deposit and whatnot.
The Giza plateau is a very charstick environment, meaning it's
like very wet limestone that can like easily use chiseled.
(30:36):
The water makes these big like reservoirs and stuff, kind
of like in Mexico with the Maya. That's a very
carstick environment. So like the water erosion on the Sphinx
is just water erosion from the stone that was already
on there that they were then chiseling and like. So
that's what you're seeing. But also I'm not explaining that perfectly,
(30:57):
but these big chambers that are underneath the pyramids, I
would imagine this probably more because it's such a carstick
environment where there's like holes and big reservoirs under the ground,
There's gonna be a lot more of that. And now
that we have this tech that can penetrate beneath these
giant stone structures to see that, you're probably gonna find
a lot more. And maybe that's building on top of
there might have been something under there that the new
(31:17):
pharaohs and build on top of. You know.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Well, And when I was talking to my sister, I
keep bringing it up. She researches a lot. She's one
of my go to people who are like she knows
a lot more facts than I do. We were talking
about this, and her theory was that she said, they
also may have found more tunnels, almost like an ant
hill that just like keep going out into the desert
from those core pillars.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
And that would track then.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, and she was like, I wonder if it's not.
They were like, is it this? She was like, I
wonder if it's just as simple as it's hot. And
there were times of year where they just dug down
and they lived worked did things underground because it was
just more comfortable or for preservation purposes, Like it's not
anything super exciting. It was like an Egyptian shopping mall underground.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Preserve food pretty well down there too.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
She didn't put it that way. I'm putting it that way.
She was much more eloquent. I just like to imagine
that there were like there was a mall of Egypt
underneath the you know, they were like, welcome to Egyptian
Neiman Marcus.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I'm going to the mirror store right now. It was
all under there.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
You never there were a bunch of like old Egyptian
folks getting their steps in under there like powerwalking. Yeah. Anyway,
so that well, oh I am, we're way over my time.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
But actually you kind of finished right on time and
then we just had like a nice chat. Oh my god,
let us go, David, you have the hard part now,
who wont oh.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Man, I don't know if I can do that.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
You can also proclaim yourself the water that does happen.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Well, I feel weird because like I want to be
able to say like hell yeah to this stuff, but
like it just as like an archaeologist, I'm in this
weird thing of like, well, I have to be skeptical
about stuff, but then other things too. It's like I
do want to believe cool shit and like new stuff
that comes out. So I like, I didn't mean to
be like I don't know about all of this, but.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
You're pretty allowed to be.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
So oh, I appreciate that. So thank you. I guess
just based on you know, Napoleon and Alexander the Great
Field in the same way I liked your story, Michael, like.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Just saw we all kind of cheers Michael, Yeah, in.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
The ethereal way, Ryan's I think yours was more like,
you know, ruder than here's what the facts are and stuff.
So I appreciate them both. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
But oh yeah, this is also you should know I
very rarely win, so this is exciting.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I was starting to feel bad for Michael. Now I
can be back on it. Now I'm gonna get angry
if he wins again. So nice.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
As an archaeologist and like someone who was fascinated by
the past, I think something that humans always have. And
this is why again Egypt is such a worldwide, you know, phenomenon,
and like everyone wants to emulate it in some way.
People like old stuff. And I noticed like a lot
of stuff that I worked on when I was working
(33:55):
in Wyoming. You have like thirteen thousand years of history there.
You have like the Paleolithic peace that were hunting mammoths,
and then you have homesteaders with the Oregon Trail, and
then there's like modern Wyoming, and like you would see
in like little rock shelters or like caves where people
were camping for the night, I could find like thirteen
(34:15):
thousand year old tools or like maybe seven thousand year
old tools, and then like a cowboy belt buckle from
some rancher that was there, and whether they both spent
the night in that shelter at different times and they
left the tools there, or the cowboy found that and
brought it to the thing with them and just left
it there. You see that quite often. And like homesteads,
like you see a lot of people just like there's
(34:36):
probably this German family came through dougle Well had a
house there and then they moved on went to Oregon,
but they buried everything in this big well pit and
there were arrowheads in there that they clearly the kids
probably found and were like, oh, this is cool. So
like everyone has that connection to like they like old stuff,
and like Chinshi Huang and China like made a whole
(34:57):
terra cotta army of like artifacts live in the afterlofe
with So it's like we all, I don't know, we
all like that Heradicus ruttle about Egypt or ancient stuff
in ancient Greece. So we just have a connection. And
like I guess where I'm going is you're I don't
think it's that wu wu at all to say, like
you know, you you feel the gravity of the place
(35:18):
when you're there in Egypt and especially and I haven't
been to the stuff in Mexico yet. I'd love to,
but just to see because I think Tea Tea Khan
was ancient to the Aztecs when they got there, they
really was.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, so they didn't know who built it they were.
It predates them by a couple thousand years. I want
to say, I've been to the ones in Guatemala and
I assume that's the same.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Those are Mayan?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Is that Mayan? Yeah? No, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Mayans were like a five hundred six hundred years before then.
But yeah, Mayans are like the time of like the Crusades.
The Aztecs were like at their height when the Spanish
got there.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I have to tell you, I think you know you
were like, ah, you know, this is like this is
like deal a Dennis dealing with an ankle. You were
absolutely prefer thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Oh yeah, no problem. It's like what dentist does have
to go to like med school? Still, so like you
know some stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well that's true, but I mean in this scenario, you
would make a great pediatrist.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Tarantino would be proud.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Do you have a word for us? Do you have
our next word?
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Hmm? Geology, Like a geologist to talk about like the
the Giza plateau being so carstick and stuff like that,
like the something that never gets talked about, even if
it's not to do with Egypt, is just geology and
like how mountains form and how like you know, things
deposit and how like if you think of the Rockies,
it's two tectonic plates that just made a wave, and
(36:40):
then the Wyoming and Kansas are all just the ripples
of that way.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Geology is cool to me.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, geologology is. Actually I have so many things I
feel like I can go to and Well's personal stories,
So that's a good one. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, no problem a rock on.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Oh my god, Sorry, I'm gonna I'm gonna see myself
out and again.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Friends, David Howe YouTube podcast.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah, David and how go check out Instagram be the
best one to find me and see the most stuff
on I would say,
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