June 2, 2025 • 40 mins
Michael and Ryan dive deep into the wild world of octopuses with molecular biologist Meg Mindlin. From RNA editing and climate change to octopus dreams, intelligence, and escape artists like Inky, they explore the science, mystery, and emotional depth of these fascinating creatures. Plus: nudibranch fun facts, octopus literature, and the surprising link between art and science.
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Connect with Us: Michael Judson Berry | Ryan Wilder
Theme: “Happy Dance” by Mr. Smith is licensed under Attribution 4.0 International License. “Running Fanfare” by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under Attribution 3.0 Unported.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Octopodies, actopodies, octopodies nuts.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
That's how the episode's over. At Meg, you won. Hello,
Welcome back to White Noise. I'm so so so excited
for today's topic. It's so excited to meet our fabulous guest,
(00:30):
Meg Minlan. Welcome, Meg, Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
You're a molecular biologist.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
I'm a molecular biologist and I study octopuses.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
RNA is written. Do you get that right?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It's like one of your focal points.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Yeah, physically study RNA. Okay, So within your body, there's
like a way that everything gets made. You start off
with your DNA, which I kind of like to think
of as the cookbook, and then you need to get
to the proteins, which ILL to think of as your
finished meal, and so your RNA is going to be
the step in between, and so I like to think
(01:05):
of it as the little recipes. So I study those
little recipes and how octopuses make changes to those little
recipes in order to change the finished meal or their proteins.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And they must be fascinating for that.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Oh yeah, I mean the reason it's so fascinating is because,
like we edit our RNA, lots of animals edit their RNA.
But octopuses do it like upwards of like six hundred
thousand sites, whereas we only have like a thousand, So
like we only do it a little bit, and they
do it a lot a bit.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I am so excited for this. So one of my
other like research items in terms of like reading about
you and your background and like what you do and
why you're cool. One of the key highlights was that
you are so good at taking complex things and explaining
them in a way that makes sense and allow you
take people along with you. You just did that whole RNA thing.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Yeah. So my masters is on NA editing, So I
study how ocean acidification affects that process and what proteins
octopusers are changing in response, and sort of the idea
is that whatever proteins they're changing in response will help
them acclimate to increase aidification. So the water's getting more
(02:18):
and more.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Acidic and they're adapting to it, because why not, they're
the smartest things they are.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I mean, my whole thing is in regards with like
climate change, and so ultimately, like climate change doesn't do
them very well, Like they don't do well in hot temperature.
They don't do well in high acidity, but they show
some like resilience to specifically acidification, so they can sort
of like you know, they'll see a spike in like
their immune response and their stress levels, but then over
(02:47):
time it goes back tow into normal, so they can
sort of just acclimate to new temperatures and new acidity.
And so I study, well, if they can do that,
maybe it's because they're editing their ARNA, and maybe we
can figure out which proteins help best do that for them.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Is there a link between this kind of like RNA
behavior and like implications for humans or adaptation for humans?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yeah, there really is. Have you ever heard of chrisperg
cast nine.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, so chrisper cast nine is a way to
edit your DNA.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh, I believe that you were saying a person's name.
Was it chrispurg cast nine. I've never heard of press,
but I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
If it was a person that is kind of a
slay name, chrisper cast nine, like you would spell it
like pass and then spell out nine like that could
be a rapper's name.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Oh my god, chrisperg cast nine. Look out, So chrisper.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Cast nine is a way to edit DNA, and we
use this for a lot of sort of medical applications
and like gene therapies, and so RNA editing instead is
another type of gene therapy that people have been looking
into where instead of making changes to your DNA that
are permanent but could you know have benefit with disease
(04:04):
and illness and all sort of genetic conditions, you can
edit your RNA because it's not permanent, those changes don't
stick like, they don't stick around. And so one of
those applications is actually non addictive alternatives to opiates. So
a lab that primarily studies RNA editing in the US
is one of the labs that was working on non
addictive alternative to opiates using RNA editing and octopuses.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Sweet, how did you get into octopuses in the and
like cephalopods in the first place? Like what do you
remember what drew you to them?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Yeah, so I have like a very specific memory of
like two thousand and six on YouTube and there was
a documentary that was Richard Hammond's Miracle of Nature and
it was where a cuttlefish camouflage itself perfectly to unnatural patterns.
So like if you've ever seen a cuttlefish in a
little checkerboard pattern and it matches, that's like all all
(05:00):
the way back from this documentary from forever ago. And
I was like seven at the time and saw that,
and I was like, say, less, this is so cool. Well, like,
I cannot see anything cooler than this right now. But
I at the time, like I I didn't go into
science until like literally my senior year of high school,
(05:20):
I thought I was going to be an artist full time.
I did like concert photography, I was making album art covers,
I was doing graphic design, and I just got burnt out.
I was doing art as like a career since I
was a child. I was like making money off of
my art and I hated it. At the end of
my senior year of high school, and so I was like, well,
(05:41):
I really like the ocean, and I really like, you know,
octopuses and supple pods, and I was really into photography,
and so I was like, I'm just gonna go and
make ocean documentaries. And so I went and didn't tell
anybody that I was applying to marine biology programs instead
of art programs, and I chose to go to UC
(06:03):
Santa Cruz and get my marine biology degree. And then
I was in my freshman year writing class and we
had to write a research paper and I chose to
write it about how climate change would affect octopuses. And
in that I found out about RNA editing, and I
was like, this is so cool. Like I don't understand
(06:23):
anything about molecular biology. I don't know what's going on,
but I know that this is cool and I want
to know more about it. And so then I switched
my majors. I got into molecular biology. I joined an
RNA lab and I just was like, I'm gonna do
this incredible.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Wow, it was really crazy.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I just I kind of had like a like a
life changing mental breakdown at one point because I was like,
if I'm not going to be a marine biologist, like
what am I going to do? And then it was like, no,
You're fine, Like chill out. Like I just thought like
my whole life was like changing, and I was and
I was like, no, you're you're literally doing like the
same thing. Just chill and it was great and I
(07:07):
don't regret any of it.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
That also explains the beautiful illustrations that you make. So
I was I was going to ask you, but you
just told me, like the incredible intersection that you have
with marine biology, molecular biology and then the beautiful illustrations.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah, I come to think of that as the reason
why I'm good at explaining complex topics and easy to way,
easy to understand ways, because I was, you know, an
our kid who got thrown into a science program and
didn't really understand any of it, and so I had
to teach myself. And I taught myself mostly like through
(07:43):
using art, and I would teach my friend groups like
when we go study, I would be the one at
the whiteboard drawing things out because I needed to draw
it out, and then I would teach it to them
because I found out that teaching was the best way
that I learned, and so then it just kind of
came together and then I was like, I'm I'm I
kind of can do this, and I really enjoyed it,
(08:04):
and so then I decided to do science communication.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Michael, I just feel like anything we're going to do
is a failure at this point, Like.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh yeah, that's why, Like you'll see when I go
to my time in is I've never been more intimidated
going in to my.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I'm just like a twenty six year old like older emo.
You don't have to be intimidated by me.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Sometimes. That's the interesting thing with this one, now that
we've moved into having people who actually know about subjects,
and we're like, let me tell you about this thing
that you know a lot about. Now is the video
I work in entertainment? Like there are very few octopuses
at the Netflix studios in Brooklyn. Well, speaking of our
(08:54):
little presentations, which one of us would you like to
go first? Now that you've gotten to know us so well,
I oh.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
My god, why is this so hard? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Uh, it's because if you don't, because Ryan will be devastated.
We engineer this tension into the.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
It's like having to pick a finger child like.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
H huh, but a child you've known for ten minutes,
so talk about like I've laughed with you.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
You are essentially kin. Okay, I think I'm gonna go
with Ryan.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Okay, your time starts now.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Okay, So I thought the first thing I would start
with is we made this mistake at the end, and
I made the mistake. If it is, it's emphatically octopuses
and not octopi, and I was going to explain why
so octopi octopus is origin is Greek, and it's only
(09:53):
Latin words that end in us that you add an
eye to, so technically the appropriate if you were going
to take the Greek pronunciation of the word or the
Greek origin of the word and make it plural, it's
I have to look at this.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Octopodes, octopities, octopodies, octopoity to.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
The best joke ever be is octo octopodes nuts.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Episodes over and Meg you, I had never heard octopodies.
That is so cool. By the way, I know it's
going to make the socials next week.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I had never heard that joke until I went onto
Science Friday and somebody came back to me in my
d MS and was like, oh, like, I'm so glad
you talked about the correct plural octopus and just so
you know, like you can always remember octopodies because octopodies nuts.
And I was like, oh, I was like, I'm so mad.
I didn't think of that first.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Oh that's great.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Well, now I just kind of have like I think
kind of fun facts and I actually I'll get to it.
But I ended up kind of focusing on chromatophores on
the octopuses because I thought it was on the autopodies
nuts a whole bunch of fun facts. They have nine brains,
so one main and then one in each tentacle, and
(11:23):
they all operate independently of each other, but check in
with each other, so like, for example, that's why one
tentacle or two tentacles could be working on unscrewing a
jar while the rest of the body is completely asleep,
which I thought was kind of cool.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Can I tell you a horribly scientific, pedantic thing, please,
it's not technical. It's arm.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Oh it is arm, yeah, octopus. The difference between m
and tentacles, Well.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
The difference is that an arm is going to have
one to two rows of suckers from like the base
to the tip, whereas a tentacle is going to be
like a long string any sort of filament that the
end has like a club foot, and then a cluster
of suckers at the end. So squid and cuddlefish only
have tentacles, and they're retractable, so a lot of times
(12:10):
they hold them in and then they shoot them out
to catch their prey. But octopuses only have arms. Oh,
I don't correct people a lot about because it feels
very like nerdy to be like, well.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Actually, no, I think that's a good to know.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
In fact, I think you should slap them whenever you
say you're like, I just use my arm to hit you,
much like an octopus would do.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
No. The New York Times wrote an article about octopus
is that I was like, very beautifully in but they
interviewed like three other octopus experts and still named their
article four hundred and eight tentacles, And we were all
like cringing.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
You know, the Times has gone downhill for real, Get
out of you where Let's see.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I was gonna talk about their eyes and how the
fact that our eyes are very similar to their eyes,
with the exception of the fact that our optic nerves
go through our ret now while there is attached in
the back, and I didn't know this. So our eyes
like optically eliminate or photoshop out that loss, like our
brains fix that lost sight, whereas they don't. They don't
(13:17):
have to edit out anything. They actually get the full
span of vision and apparently have the ability to see polarization,
which allows them to see angular light, which is kind
thought was kind of cool.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
And they also have like no blinds block so because
of that, they can see like three hundred and sixty degrees.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And they can process all of it theirs and.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
It's all like camera like image, Like it's like really detailed.
And so not only are they seeing like all the
things you're seeing in three hundred and sixty degrees, but
like they're also seeing the polarized light which we can't see,
which gives them even more information.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Wait, what do you mean by they can see polarized light?
Like Ryan when you say that?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
What? So, it's polarization happens when you filter light in
a certain way. And like if you ever notice when
you wear polarized sunglasses, you ever notice how you turn
a computer screen and you can no longer see it,
and it's because it's filtering out given ways. So, in
other words, think about it as another dimension for which
you can see light. So, in other words, as light
(14:15):
is traveling through in different directions, there's going to be
some of the light that travels in and gets faded
out because of the polarization, where other pieces will fade in.
So in other words, you're getting a whole nother dimension
or depth. If you will of light because of that polarization,
because there's things that aren't being polarized versus things that are.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
I also like to think of it as like if
you've ever been fishing and have like polarized sunglasses fishing,
So if you look at a stream without those sunglasses,
you get that clare and you can't really see the water.
With the polar sunglasses, that Claire is eliminated and you
can see all the fish in the water.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
M okay, Because I feel like I've always bought polarized
sunglasses because I was like, I don't know, otherwise like
all blind, but never really thought to know like why.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It was more just like you know, abject like self
preservation because I was like I want to you know,
I don't know the sort I'm supposed start do with this.
But also to be fare, I always buy my sunglasses
from a vendor on the street for like four dollars, so.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
That's the best way to buy sunglasses.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
All the cool kids wear polarized glasses. So I'll talk
a little bit about chromatophores. So I was totally intrigued
by the fact that they can change mimic colors, mimic
their surroundings and they do it almost well. Some take
longer than others, but there are certain ones that can
do it within milliseconds.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
And than you can blink your eye.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It's insane. So these teeny little color socks, they're balloon
like filled with pigment, and they're yellow. They tend to
be filled with yellow, red, orange, black, or brown, and
they're neuromascular. So each little sack is surrounded by teeny
as little muscles that I think the best way to
(16:03):
describe it is each one is like a pixel. Like
so right now, as we're looking at the screen, a
microprocessor is changing the pixels on the screen to manipulate
what we're seeing. Well, octopuses do that, and they do
it with every single one of these little things. And
what they do is when they want it to express
the color, they flex the muscle and it causes the
(16:25):
sac to protrude producing the color and then relax it
to let it go back, to let it go back in,
which I thought was pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
You did that wonderfully, by the way, great explanation.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Thank you. I'm You've raised the bar. I'm working hard here,
I can tell it well.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
And then I was going to say, I think the
other cool thing that plays into it. So I was
thinking about the fact that you part of the reason
that they can mimic so many things is that you
need a range of colors. So when I first read that,
I was like, oh, they only have really red, yellow, orange, black,
and brown.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But they also have ad irrid.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yes which give access to blue and green shades at
the same time. So all this and purple, So now
you have this full spectrum of light if you will.
That they can basically manipulate across their bodies, which allows
them to incredibly kind of manipulate it. And then lukophores lukophors,
(17:33):
I actually wanted to read more about them because they
apparently scatter light equally, which I was like, Oh, that's
kind of interesting. I wonder what's behind that.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
But little proteins, I believe that reflect light. So I
think they're called reflection.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
So like little mirrors.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Yeah, like little mirrors. So if you get any like
white in there, the luciophores are responsible for the white,
and then you kind of get that shimmery effect with
the lukiophores and then the ridiophores, and they're all kind
of layered on top of each other, and that's how
you get those really cool displays of color.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah, and they said almost like it also creates that
like three D.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Effect or Yeah, because they're a layer.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
There's stickers you used to you can look at like
almost holographic. That's what I was sticking for, which I
thought was the brain wave. I want to be on
your brainway I am trying right now. Well, that's it.
That was my that's my ten ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I would say.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I had something like I've looked up. I wasn't sure
if I was going to be able to do it,
so I had some other stuff on, like famous octopuses.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Wait real quick, who are some of the famous octopuses?
Speaker 4 (18:44):
I think his name is?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Was my first one.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Yeah, Like are a few games in the World Cup,
like consecutively before.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
He died eight consecutives? Yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And actually he predicted the outcomes for German. He was
a German octopus. Actually, the two octopuses that I have
are both German. There's Otto, who knew how to squirt
water to kill the lights that he didn't like shining
on him.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Because he short circuited it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
He liked to juggle hermit crabs, which I thought was
kind of interesting and learned to throw rocks at the glass.
And then the other one that I think everyone's heard of,
his inky, which is the one he was from. I
think it was a heat from the National Crime in
New Zealand in twenty sixteen. He managed to escape his
tank and managed to pick the right pipe and the
(19:42):
floor to exit the building and basically free himself into
the sea. Good for him, he's fully a Pixar film.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
He lives on in history through.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I want this movie.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yes, it's essentially finding Nemo. I mean, I don't know
if he ever successfully escapes has been It's.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Kind of like Octopus meets Shawshank Redemption. Really yeah, that's
a movie I want to see.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I don't know if I want to see that. That
sounds like it's gonna get weirdly like sexual and then
I'm gonna have more weird octopus gifts in my comments forever.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Oh yeah, well your Bvica?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Are you ready? Sure?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
All right?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Hold on, let me, I gotta get my own.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I'm never ready. Let's get the time, all right, ready set,
I'll go okay. I have always been fascinated by octopuses.
I love them so much. What really did it for me?
Though I've always thought they were just kind of cool.
But what did it for me is this book The
Soul of an Octopus.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
I've never read it, but I've read your other books
and say, is so great.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Oh you know her a little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
She is really close friends with Warren, who runs Octonation,
the world's latest octopus fan club, and he partnered with
her on her latest book, which was Secrets of the Octopus,
that came out in combination with nat Gio, so like
we know of each other.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
There were just so many little things in it because
in the book, she spends a lot of time at
the Boston Aquarium and you basically follow her on the
journey of three different octopuses and her relationship she develops
with them. And it really breaks your heart how short
they live, like it's only a few years. And pardon me,
that is like, that's the reason they're not the primary
The only reason they haven't like taken over is that
(21:38):
they can't. They don't live long enough. I feel like
I feel like once they figure out how to live,
like twenty years, we're done.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yeah, But ants has kind of taken over the world
and they don't live that long.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Ants. Oh that's true, but they're just doing it by population.
It's just a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Does that not contribute to what? How much world you
have taken over?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
That's how much true. I mean, if you think about it,
people are kind of just like, yeah, that's true. I mean,
think about us.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
We're kind of only thought about is taking over just
because we are so many.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Of us and we destroy things. I know, we're more
of like a bacteria, Like we're just not good a
plague upon earth. Yeah, we we are sort of just
like a virus on this earth.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
To be optimistic, there are things where human and nature interacting,
like I think it's in like braiding sweet grass where
they talk about how humans actually tending to sweet grass
actually made them more productive and better crops. Total plague.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Every once in a while, we do some cool stuff.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yeah, there's a little harmony.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Going on sometimes we try and balance out the plastic.
But you know, this book is is really really lovely
and the things that got me to us how emotionally
intelligent they are. I think we all know. I mean,
I actually take that for granted. A lot of people probably
don't know just how how clever they are as far
as like their use of tools, their use there, how
(22:56):
they can plan, which not that many almost no invertebrates can,
and very few vertebrates can. How I guess there's not
many that like will take a tool because they know
that they're gonna need it in the future, the way
like people do, and like otters do, like certain mammals,
certain kind of birds, like I know ravens do. But
like one example I heard about was how like that
(23:16):
famous one of the octopus taking the coconut shell and
it knew because it was going to an area where
it knew there was very little protection, and so it
needed to and it expended a lot of energy to
carry the shell around.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Locomotion, uh, where they.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Run on their little feet, where it like runs on
two little arms.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
No, that's like an actual thing where sciences are like, yeah,
two octopus arms are actually legs and.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh that's right. Yeah. So it's running its little like
octopus legs carrying its shell, which must be like exhausting.
The poor thing is like ugh, but it's like if
I don't have this, I'm gonna get eaten by a jar,
which is not good either. But I love that that
proves that they like they understand future consequence and they
plan for it. And it's like there's very few species
(24:02):
that do that.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
I think if we searched harder we could find more.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
We probably could, we just haven't. Yeah, but like whatever,
let's give it to him for the moment. Like, well, yes,
but you know, and how like playful they are with objects,
how they can open jars and get into jars. But
reading this, oh, also the random fact I learned how
they can fit into anything that's larger than their eyeball. Yes,
I read that too. Then their be cool because the
beak is the only hard thing. Oh so their eyes.
(24:27):
So I'm wrong about that.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I thought.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
So the guys are still squeezy enough, okay, because that
is nuts that they can like squeeze their body into
anything large. Oh my god, that's so cool.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
It's also like a huge problem in keeping octopuses.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I'm sure, but they well that's in this book. She
talks about one that like kept getting out and it
would get into other tanks in the aquarium and they
eat the fish that it actually liked and then go
back into its own.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah, our current lab octopus will get into the filter
system so like ump water in and out of the tank.
He likes to hide in that little pipe and then
we're like where is he? And then we like lift
up the pipe and we're like, oh, oh hey, brouh.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
How big is he? A little guy? Okay, okay, like
the size of a softball.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
He's a ruby octopus. And his name is Carmichael. All right,
we call him Kerns.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
But yeah, this book made me want to have a pet,
one because they like she talks about there's one especially
you're shaking here, but there's one. I know some people
do get them as pets, but you have to have
like a giant take and like those.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
People have a lot of money and too much time
on their hands.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah that's fair. I would really That's what I want
is to have.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Too much money, a lot of money and a lot
of time on your hands.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah exactly right now I only have the time when
I need money. But so she she talks about one
that I love that it really didn't like one of
the interns at the aquarium and it would like purposely
ambush him and it could like it figured out very
quickly who he was, and they couldn't figure out what
he did to piss it off. But something about this guy,
(25:58):
this octopus was just like I can hate you. And
it would literally it would hide and she would It
was this female octopus. She was a gipsific octa, and
she would go and she would hide up at the
top so he couldn't see her. And she learned his schedule,
so she knew when he was walking past the top
of her tank, and then she would squirt him with water.
She would like completely like jet douse this poor man
(26:20):
with water to where like he would have to like
skirt around the edge to get around her take because
she figured it out. And every time to walk by,
she would just like drench him and there was nothing
they could do. They were like, what did you do?
And he was like, I don't know, I don't know
why she hates me so much.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
We had a lab octopus that hated one of our
lab members and he would ink every single time he
came into the room. Oh really, nobody else, but only
when that man came in. And it was a pain
because when they ink, you have to get the ink out,
and so it was just like and then he would
like get the ink out and then he'd ink at
him again. And then it was just like somebody else
needs to come in here.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
You wonder it, like why, I just love how this
octopus like literally learned this sky's schedule. It was like
I know that at this time on this day, this
guy's going to roll by and I'm going to fucking
soak him because it makes him mad.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
You probably didn't even like learn the schedule, just like
learn the man's face.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Probably, And it just like waded and it was like
I see you coming, like I.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
See that man, and I got me like zip.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Up to my hiding spot. And then it also but
it became really attached to her, and she said, like
it loved like holding her, like it would love to
like like she'd put her It would like reach up
and she would put her hand in and it really
loved holding her arm and stroking her.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
That's how they get a sense of their environment. I mean,
their arms are just like giant tongues. So yeah, it
was just like tasting her.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
But apparently it really liked the taste of her. But
she said there was something about how they can literally
taste emotion because they can tell your oh the changing
chemicals on your skin. Basically, yeah, she said she says
in the bucklies that they can sort of like because
the sense resource is strong, that they could tell sort
of like where she was. So she was like, one
time she came in and she was really star us
(28:00):
out something bad. It happened on that day, I don't remember,
and then like I think, like her car barked something.
She was having a really bad day, and she reached
in and it touched her, and she was like, it
immediately sensed that something was up. And she's like, I
think I had to do with my heart rate. And
it found this spot on her the inside of her elbow,
like in the crook of her arm, and it stroked it.
(28:20):
And she looked up later that that's a pressure point
and if you're in distress, if you do touch that spot,
it lowers your heart rate. So she was like, somehow
this octopus figured out a way to soothe me very quickly.
And she was like, I think it somehow picked up
that I was upset, and it did what it could
think of to calm me.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
I think that's a little bit of anthropomicization, a little
bit of you know, making connections in your head that
maybe aren't what is actually going on, but it does
make it very cute and probably a very warm warming
story to her.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
That's why I wanted a pet one. I was like, well,
then maybe would I having a bad day, I'll just
like cuddle my octopus, don't.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
I mean most giant Pacific octopuses. Maybe, but you're not
going to have a giant Pacific octopus. You're gonna have
a different species of octopus and it's not going to
give a single Probably.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Why why the giant Pacific Why is that one special?
Speaker 4 (29:13):
A little bit more puppy dog like, Like they're a
little bit more interactive, They're a little bit more curious.
It could be because of their size, like you know,
they are so big. They're the biggest octopus species that
you know, there's less fear of predation from like a
human per se.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
But like the little also live the longest, right.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yeah, they live about three to five years five years
in captivity, shorter in the and.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Sorry I know where of a time. But I learned
recently about how they I think, and this I think
is a parallel to people. How like, excuse me, their evolution,
how originally they started with shells like five hundred million
years ago. Whenever they started they had shells at someone
they lost the shell, and so they had to become smart, Yeah,
because they have no other defense. The defense, But isn't
(29:59):
there kind of like people like we're just mushy meats acts.
We don't have good things. We don't have claws, we're
not fast, we can't breathe under water, like we can't fly,
like the only thing we have is our brains. And
in a way, like I think they're similar, but they
have evolved better than us because their whole body is
their brain basically right in a lot of ways, and
(30:21):
the fact that, like you said, like each arm can
act independently because it has its own layer of neurons,
and just they're so biologically complex in a way that
I think probably supersedes people in a way considering.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Their size, your definition, you know, Yeah, well that's true.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I guess as far as like survival goes, like we
can't see three sixty, I mean you do.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Have like sell communication throughout your whole body. That's all
that the oxytr is doing is that their communication is
like widespread, and like we have that in a lot
of ways too. It's just that ours kind of always
goes back to our central nervous system where theirs is
you know, they don't have 're distributed. Yeah, it's decentralies.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
But thank you. That's that's what they made me think of.
Was just that was when you talk about what got
you into them, that's what got me into them. And
now whenever, now I follow so many octopus accounts, like
I love it, like I love when I'm just like
or like a love YouTube rabbit hole about them, Yeah,
and just like watching videos and oh my god, watching
them dream? Oh yeah, is that true? Or is that
(31:21):
a myth? When they're like a sleep and you watch
them flashing colors and textures, is it them dreaming or
what do you think that is?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
So there's debate over that. There's some scientists who say that, yes,
this is dreaming, but there's other scientists who say, you know,
we can't be certain that that's what it is because
we're kind of still looking at it from our perspective
of dream because we only know dreaming and everything from
our perspective, and that doesn't necessarily mean that octopuses are
experiencing the same exact thing we are, Like, we don't
(31:50):
really have a great way of knowing that, but it
does look like they're dreaming.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I don't know if you guys have been reading the
news or more about sleep. And sleep's important to us
because it's essentially a form of neural cleansing.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Your brain little just a little rewiring.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Yeah, and I was wondering if, like maybe it's actually
because their brain is decentralized, it actually is a form
of neural cleansing. Anyway, random thought of the moment.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, that is a good I hadn't thought about that.
I thought about it though. That makes total sense though, Okay,
well another hard I have to pick who wins. Yeah,
(32:37):
whatever that means. This was also a unique episode because
neither because I feel like both of ours were very
much just like Mike tell us things you tea Did
I get that right? Because we bother are just like.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, okay, well I will have to say I think
Ryan is the winner. I really like, I really liked
how do you explain things? And that you really like
took the time to like teach it to yourself and
understand sort of these more like complex things that are
going on. And I think you did a really great
job at like re explaining that for a general public audience.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I was channeling you.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
So well done.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
No, I like yours to Michael. You're just a very
feely take.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And you know what, Oh thank you. Also, this was
another where we're rare one Ryan, where we had similar
things because I was going to talk about the camouflage.
Oh that's the thing I learned about was the little
color sax and the three layers of skin and how
like it's the color saxon and the reflective and stuff.
So it's just you start going and I was like, okay, cool, Well,
I'm just good to have that book.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
You have like two great, really good perspectives, like, you know,
we covered a lot of ground we got.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, No, it worked out beautifully. I am not mad
at this at all, and I fully support your decision
to choose right and I would have done the same.
All right, And so what is our topic for next week?
Speaker 4 (33:58):
New to Brinks?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I'm sorry who nud to branks.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
They are slugs. You may what, you may love them as.
If you look up nudibrink met Gala looks and you
can find a whole entire spread of new to Branks
that look like people at the met Gala.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Okay, not to be confused, with nude brinks, which is
what just came up on my Google, which is not
at all. I didn't even know that.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Was a thing, and you d I b R A
n c H.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I spelled that completely wrong.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
They have like one dramatic little beings. They are crazy looking.
There's so many different types too. They battle with their dicks.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Wait, I think I knew that about these. Now that
I see what they are, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
So they're freaky and they're fabulous, Like I think it's
a great combination.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Ah my god, who doesn't want to be freaking fabulous
at the same day.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Oh my god, I am looking at the met galic
comparisons and it's kind of insane.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Oh wait, can I ask you a question real quick
on your Instagram? Which is fabulous in Verdi babe, which
I love? You did? Which octopus are you? According to
your birth month? I did so I'm May. And this
is also what I was going to ask if we
ran out of time and you chose a Hawaiian bobtail.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
Well, I honestly, I think it became May because my
roommate picked that one.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Great.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
She put a lot more effort into the choices than
I did. I was just gonna randomize it, and she
was like, you can't do this to people. You need
to actually pick them. So she picked most of them.
But a Hawaiian bobtail is it's not a squid or
a cuttlefish or an octopus. It's like its own thing entirely.
And so they're more closely related to.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Cuttlefishes, but okay.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Their own thing. They got the cutest little rump, like
a big fat little butt, and then like huge eyes,
and then they like to bury themselves in the sand,
and so they'll take two of their arms and like
bury themselves. It's the keyest thing ever.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Okay, great, So they have big butts and they love
to cuttle I will take this. That's my birth month, octopus. Yeah,
what was fab?
Speaker 5 (36:17):
Now?
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I have to know what was fab?
Speaker 4 (36:19):
February was? Oh god, because that was my month. I
picked it.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I don't care. I got you. It's it's a vampire squid.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Yag.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Wait, and you have a vampire squid dress, as I
recall from your.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Yeah, for Halloween this year, I was a vampire squid.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
That's cool. Wait, so vampire squid, tell us a little
bit about them real quick.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
So the vampire squid is also like its own little thing.
So it's not a squid, a cuddlefish, or an octopus.
It's like completely separate, not even like it's more closely
related to octopuses. But one of the hypotheses is that
it's actually kind of like sister species to octopus and squid,
(36:56):
So like vampire squid came first and then to put
some squid. But the cool thing about them is they
live in the oxygen minimum zone in the ocean, so
they live in the deep sea, not a lot of oxygen.
They therefore don't move around a lot, and so in
order to cope with that, they have these modified tentacles
(37:16):
that are these little stringy tendrils filaments, and they catch
animal poop and they eat animal poop.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Oh, I mean it's.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Not as like could be more excited to be a
vampire squid now, no.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, okay, listen, I mean, we all can't have a
fabulous but big bright eyes would love to sleep. But
they eat so.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Spooky and goth and unique and don't.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
I'm also wearing red right now, and they're red.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I've seen a lot of videos of them, and they
are super cool to watch.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
They're very cool. I mean I chose them. They're one
of my favorites. I just tend to like, you know,
any like weirdo creepy months animal out there. I'm like,
I love you, please, You're my favorite. So I chose
vampish with And also they always get said in October
and then.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
February is like, oh that's fair like.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Love thing or like cutesy thing, and I was like, no,
February is.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
My I have to ask what dare you?
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Just to see nice on the twenty second?
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Okay, yeah, I don't know anything about are you still no?
I am an aquarius?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah it's Aquarius. Yeah, I do know.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
I'm an Aquarius Scorpio Scorpio.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Oh man, well, I'm so excited to learn more about
nude branches nudy Branches BNSS.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
There's even an entire calendar out there and Instagram you
can follow called I Love Nudies and they put out
their yearly nudy calendar.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
And they even have merch that says like I love nudies.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Amazing. They must disappoint so many people. It's fantastic, Thank you,
and remind people where they can follow you.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I am on all social media as Invertebabe Instagram. There's
just a period in between because somebody took my user
name before I could snack it. No, I literally like
changed it on all platforms, and then I was like
I'm gonna wait on Instagram, and then next day someone
took it and I was like, well, damn it, but yeah,
(39:22):
you follow me on all those places.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
And good luck with everything with your master.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Yeah yeah, I've already defended, so I passed.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
I'm getting my master's amazing. Good luck and joy coasting
and congratulations.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Yeah,
Octopodies, actopodies, octopodies nuts.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
That's how the episode's over. At Meg, you won. Hello,
Welcome back to White Noise. I'm so so so excited
for today's topic. It's so excited to meet our fabulous guest,
(00:30):
Meg Minlan. Welcome, Meg, Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
You're a molecular biologist.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
I'm a molecular biologist and I study octopuses.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
RNA is written. Do you get that right?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It's like one of your focal points.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Yeah, physically study RNA. Okay, So within your body, there's
like a way that everything gets made. You start off
with your DNA, which I kind of like to think
of as the cookbook, and then you need to get
to the proteins, which ILL to think of as your
finished meal, and so your RNA is going to be
the step in between, and so I like to think
(01:05):
of it as the little recipes. So I study those
little recipes and how octopuses make changes to those little
recipes in order to change the finished meal or their proteins.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And they must be fascinating for that.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Oh yeah, I mean the reason it's so fascinating is because,
like we edit our RNA, lots of animals edit their RNA.
But octopuses do it like upwards of like six hundred
thousand sites, whereas we only have like a thousand, So
like we only do it a little bit, and they
do it a lot a bit.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I am so excited for this. So one of my
other like research items in terms of like reading about
you and your background and like what you do and
why you're cool. One of the key highlights was that
you are so good at taking complex things and explaining
them in a way that makes sense and allow you
take people along with you. You just did that whole RNA thing.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Yeah. So my masters is on NA editing, So I
study how ocean acidification affects that process and what proteins
octopusers are changing in response, and sort of the idea
is that whatever proteins they're changing in response will help
them acclimate to increase aidification. So the water's getting more
(02:18):
and more.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Acidic and they're adapting to it, because why not, they're
the smartest things they are.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I mean, my whole thing is in regards with like
climate change, and so ultimately, like climate change doesn't do
them very well, Like they don't do well in hot temperature.
They don't do well in high acidity, but they show
some like resilience to specifically acidification, so they can sort
of like you know, they'll see a spike in like
their immune response and their stress levels, but then over
(02:47):
time it goes back tow into normal, so they can
sort of just acclimate to new temperatures and new acidity.
And so I study, well, if they can do that,
maybe it's because they're editing their ARNA, and maybe we
can figure out which proteins help best do that for them.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Is there a link between this kind of like RNA
behavior and like implications for humans or adaptation for humans?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yeah, there really is. Have you ever heard of chrisperg
cast nine.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, so chrisper cast nine is a way to
edit your DNA.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh, I believe that you were saying a person's name.
Was it chrispurg cast nine. I've never heard of press,
but I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
If it was a person that is kind of a
slay name, chrisper cast nine, like you would spell it
like pass and then spell out nine like that could
be a rapper's name.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Oh my god, chrisperg cast nine. Look out, So chrisper.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Cast nine is a way to edit DNA, and we
use this for a lot of sort of medical applications
and like gene therapies, and so RNA editing instead is
another type of gene therapy that people have been looking
into where instead of making changes to your DNA that
are permanent but could you know have benefit with disease
(04:04):
and illness and all sort of genetic conditions, you can
edit your RNA because it's not permanent, those changes don't
stick like, they don't stick around. And so one of
those applications is actually non addictive alternatives to opiates. So
a lab that primarily studies RNA editing in the US
is one of the labs that was working on non
addictive alternative to opiates using RNA editing and octopuses.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Sweet, how did you get into octopuses in the and
like cephalopods in the first place? Like what do you
remember what drew you to them?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Yeah, so I have like a very specific memory of
like two thousand and six on YouTube and there was
a documentary that was Richard Hammond's Miracle of Nature and
it was where a cuttlefish camouflage itself perfectly to unnatural patterns.
So like if you've ever seen a cuttlefish in a
little checkerboard pattern and it matches, that's like all all
(05:00):
the way back from this documentary from forever ago. And
I was like seven at the time and saw that,
and I was like, say, less, this is so cool. Well, like,
I cannot see anything cooler than this right now. But
I at the time, like I I didn't go into
science until like literally my senior year of high school,
(05:20):
I thought I was going to be an artist full time.
I did like concert photography, I was making album art covers,
I was doing graphic design, and I just got burnt out.
I was doing art as like a career since I
was a child. I was like making money off of
my art and I hated it. At the end of
my senior year of high school, and so I was like, well,
(05:41):
I really like the ocean, and I really like, you know,
octopuses and supple pods, and I was really into photography,
and so I was like, I'm just gonna go and
make ocean documentaries. And so I went and didn't tell
anybody that I was applying to marine biology programs instead
of art programs, and I chose to go to UC
(06:03):
Santa Cruz and get my marine biology degree. And then
I was in my freshman year writing class and we
had to write a research paper and I chose to
write it about how climate change would affect octopuses. And
in that I found out about RNA editing, and I
was like, this is so cool. Like I don't understand
(06:23):
anything about molecular biology. I don't know what's going on,
but I know that this is cool and I want
to know more about it. And so then I switched
my majors. I got into molecular biology. I joined an
RNA lab and I just was like, I'm gonna do
this incredible.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Wow, it was really crazy.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I just I kind of had like a like a
life changing mental breakdown at one point because I was like,
if I'm not going to be a marine biologist, like
what am I going to do? And then it was like, no,
You're fine, Like chill out. Like I just thought like
my whole life was like changing, and I was and
I was like, no, you're you're literally doing like the
same thing. Just chill and it was great and I
(07:07):
don't regret any of it.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
That also explains the beautiful illustrations that you make. So
I was I was going to ask you, but you
just told me, like the incredible intersection that you have
with marine biology, molecular biology and then the beautiful illustrations.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah, I come to think of that as the reason
why I'm good at explaining complex topics and easy to way,
easy to understand ways, because I was, you know, an
our kid who got thrown into a science program and
didn't really understand any of it, and so I had
to teach myself. And I taught myself mostly like through
(07:43):
using art, and I would teach my friend groups like
when we go study, I would be the one at
the whiteboard drawing things out because I needed to draw
it out, and then I would teach it to them
because I found out that teaching was the best way
that I learned, and so then it just kind of
came together and then I was like, I'm I'm I
kind of can do this, and I really enjoyed it,
(08:04):
and so then I decided to do science communication.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Michael, I just feel like anything we're going to do
is a failure at this point, Like.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh yeah, that's why, Like you'll see when I go
to my time in is I've never been more intimidated
going in to my.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I'm just like a twenty six year old like older emo.
You don't have to be intimidated by me.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Sometimes. That's the interesting thing with this one, now that
we've moved into having people who actually know about subjects,
and we're like, let me tell you about this thing
that you know a lot about. Now is the video
I work in entertainment? Like there are very few octopuses
at the Netflix studios in Brooklyn. Well, speaking of our
(08:54):
little presentations, which one of us would you like to
go first? Now that you've gotten to know us so well,
I oh.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
My god, why is this so hard? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Uh, it's because if you don't, because Ryan will be devastated.
We engineer this tension into the.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
It's like having to pick a finger child like.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
H huh, but a child you've known for ten minutes,
so talk about like I've laughed with you.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
You are essentially kin. Okay, I think I'm gonna go
with Ryan.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Okay, your time starts now.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Okay, So I thought the first thing I would start
with is we made this mistake at the end, and
I made the mistake. If it is, it's emphatically octopuses
and not octopi, and I was going to explain why
so octopi octopus is origin is Greek, and it's only
(09:53):
Latin words that end in us that you add an
eye to, so technically the appropriate if you were going
to take the Greek pronunciation of the word or the
Greek origin of the word and make it plural, it's
I have to look at this.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Octopodes, octopities, octopodies, octopoity to.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
The best joke ever be is octo octopodes nuts.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Episodes over and Meg you, I had never heard octopodies.
That is so cool. By the way, I know it's
going to make the socials next week.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I had never heard that joke until I went onto
Science Friday and somebody came back to me in my
d MS and was like, oh, like, I'm so glad
you talked about the correct plural octopus and just so
you know, like you can always remember octopodies because octopodies nuts.
And I was like, oh, I was like, I'm so mad.
I didn't think of that first.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Oh that's great.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Well, now I just kind of have like I think
kind of fun facts and I actually I'll get to it.
But I ended up kind of focusing on chromatophores on
the octopuses because I thought it was on the autopodies
nuts a whole bunch of fun facts. They have nine brains,
so one main and then one in each tentacle, and
(11:23):
they all operate independently of each other, but check in
with each other, so like, for example, that's why one
tentacle or two tentacles could be working on unscrewing a
jar while the rest of the body is completely asleep,
which I thought was kind of cool.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Can I tell you a horribly scientific, pedantic thing, please,
it's not technical. It's arm.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Oh it is arm, yeah, octopus. The difference between m
and tentacles, Well.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
The difference is that an arm is going to have
one to two rows of suckers from like the base
to the tip, whereas a tentacle is going to be
like a long string any sort of filament that the
end has like a club foot, and then a cluster
of suckers at the end. So squid and cuddlefish only
have tentacles, and they're retractable, so a lot of times
(12:10):
they hold them in and then they shoot them out
to catch their prey. But octopuses only have arms. Oh,
I don't correct people a lot about because it feels
very like nerdy to be like, well.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Actually, no, I think that's a good to know.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
In fact, I think you should slap them whenever you
say you're like, I just use my arm to hit you,
much like an octopus would do.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
No. The New York Times wrote an article about octopus
is that I was like, very beautifully in but they
interviewed like three other octopus experts and still named their
article four hundred and eight tentacles, And we were all
like cringing.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
You know, the Times has gone downhill for real, Get
out of you where Let's see.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I was gonna talk about their eyes and how the
fact that our eyes are very similar to their eyes,
with the exception of the fact that our optic nerves
go through our ret now while there is attached in
the back, and I didn't know this. So our eyes
like optically eliminate or photoshop out that loss, like our
brains fix that lost sight, whereas they don't. They don't
(13:17):
have to edit out anything. They actually get the full
span of vision and apparently have the ability to see polarization,
which allows them to see angular light, which is kind
thought was kind of cool.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
And they also have like no blinds block so because
of that, they can see like three hundred and sixty degrees.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And they can process all of it theirs and.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
It's all like camera like image, Like it's like really detailed.
And so not only are they seeing like all the
things you're seeing in three hundred and sixty degrees, but
like they're also seeing the polarized light which we can't see,
which gives them even more information.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Wait, what do you mean by they can see polarized light?
Like Ryan when you say that?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
What? So, it's polarization happens when you filter light in
a certain way. And like if you ever notice when
you wear polarized sunglasses, you ever notice how you turn
a computer screen and you can no longer see it,
and it's because it's filtering out given ways. So, in
other words, think about it as another dimension for which
you can see light. So, in other words, as light
(14:15):
is traveling through in different directions, there's going to be
some of the light that travels in and gets faded
out because of the polarization, where other pieces will fade in.
So in other words, you're getting a whole nother dimension
or depth. If you will of light because of that polarization,
because there's things that aren't being polarized versus things that are.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
I also like to think of it as like if
you've ever been fishing and have like polarized sunglasses fishing,
So if you look at a stream without those sunglasses,
you get that clare and you can't really see the water.
With the polar sunglasses, that Claire is eliminated and you
can see all the fish in the water.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
M okay, Because I feel like I've always bought polarized
sunglasses because I was like, I don't know, otherwise like
all blind, but never really thought to know like why.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It was more just like you know, abject like self
preservation because I was like I want to you know,
I don't know the sort I'm supposed start do with this.
But also to be fare, I always buy my sunglasses
from a vendor on the street for like four dollars, so.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
That's the best way to buy sunglasses.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
All the cool kids wear polarized glasses. So I'll talk
a little bit about chromatophores. So I was totally intrigued
by the fact that they can change mimic colors, mimic
their surroundings and they do it almost well. Some take
longer than others, but there are certain ones that can
do it within milliseconds.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
And than you can blink your eye.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It's insane. So these teeny little color socks, they're balloon
like filled with pigment, and they're yellow. They tend to
be filled with yellow, red, orange, black, or brown, and
they're neuromascular. So each little sack is surrounded by teeny
as little muscles that I think the best way to
(16:03):
describe it is each one is like a pixel. Like
so right now, as we're looking at the screen, a
microprocessor is changing the pixels on the screen to manipulate
what we're seeing. Well, octopuses do that, and they do
it with every single one of these little things. And
what they do is when they want it to express
the color, they flex the muscle and it causes the
(16:25):
sac to protrude producing the color and then relax it
to let it go back, to let it go back in,
which I thought was pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
You did that wonderfully, by the way, great explanation.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Thank you. I'm You've raised the bar. I'm working hard here,
I can tell it well.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
And then I was going to say, I think the
other cool thing that plays into it. So I was
thinking about the fact that you part of the reason
that they can mimic so many things is that you
need a range of colors. So when I first read that,
I was like, oh, they only have really red, yellow, orange, black,
and brown.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But they also have ad irrid.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yes which give access to blue and green shades at
the same time. So all this and purple, So now
you have this full spectrum of light if you will.
That they can basically manipulate across their bodies, which allows
them to incredibly kind of manipulate it. And then lukophores lukophors,
(17:33):
I actually wanted to read more about them because they
apparently scatter light equally, which I was like, Oh, that's
kind of interesting. I wonder what's behind that.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
But little proteins, I believe that reflect light. So I
think they're called reflection.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
So like little mirrors.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Yeah, like little mirrors. So if you get any like
white in there, the luciophores are responsible for the white,
and then you kind of get that shimmery effect with
the lukiophores and then the ridiophores, and they're all kind
of layered on top of each other, and that's how
you get those really cool displays of color.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah, and they said almost like it also creates that
like three D.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Effect or Yeah, because they're a layer.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
There's stickers you used to you can look at like
almost holographic. That's what I was sticking for, which I
thought was the brain wave. I want to be on
your brainway I am trying right now. Well, that's it.
That was my that's my ten ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I would say.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I had something like I've looked up. I wasn't sure
if I was going to be able to do it,
so I had some other stuff on, like famous octopuses.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Wait real quick, who are some of the famous octopuses?
Speaker 4 (18:44):
I think his name is?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Was my first one.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Yeah, Like are a few games in the World Cup,
like consecutively before.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
He died eight consecutives? Yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And actually he predicted the outcomes for German. He was
a German octopus. Actually, the two octopuses that I have
are both German. There's Otto, who knew how to squirt
water to kill the lights that he didn't like shining
on him.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Because he short circuited it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
He liked to juggle hermit crabs, which I thought was
kind of interesting and learned to throw rocks at the glass.
And then the other one that I think everyone's heard of,
his inky, which is the one he was from. I
think it was a heat from the National Crime in
New Zealand in twenty sixteen. He managed to escape his
tank and managed to pick the right pipe and the
(19:42):
floor to exit the building and basically free himself into
the sea. Good for him, he's fully a Pixar film.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
He lives on in history through.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I want this movie.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yes, it's essentially finding Nemo. I mean, I don't know
if he ever successfully escapes has been It's.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Kind of like Octopus meets Shawshank Redemption. Really yeah, that's
a movie I want to see.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I don't know if I want to see that. That
sounds like it's gonna get weirdly like sexual and then
I'm gonna have more weird octopus gifts in my comments forever.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Oh yeah, well your Bvica?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Are you ready? Sure?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
All right?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Hold on, let me, I gotta get my own.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I'm never ready. Let's get the time, all right, ready set,
I'll go okay. I have always been fascinated by octopuses.
I love them so much. What really did it for me?
Though I've always thought they were just kind of cool.
But what did it for me is this book The
Soul of an Octopus.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
I've never read it, but I've read your other books
and say, is so great.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Oh you know her a little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
She is really close friends with Warren, who runs Octonation,
the world's latest octopus fan club, and he partnered with
her on her latest book, which was Secrets of the Octopus,
that came out in combination with nat Gio, so like
we know of each other.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
There were just so many little things in it because
in the book, she spends a lot of time at
the Boston Aquarium and you basically follow her on the
journey of three different octopuses and her relationship she develops
with them. And it really breaks your heart how short
they live, like it's only a few years. And pardon me,
that is like, that's the reason they're not the primary
The only reason they haven't like taken over is that
(21:38):
they can't. They don't live long enough. I feel like
I feel like once they figure out how to live,
like twenty years, we're done.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yeah, But ants has kind of taken over the world
and they don't live that long.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Ants. Oh that's true, but they're just doing it by population.
It's just a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Does that not contribute to what? How much world you
have taken over?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
That's how much true. I mean, if you think about it,
people are kind of just like, yeah, that's true. I mean,
think about us.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
We're kind of only thought about is taking over just
because we are so many.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Of us and we destroy things. I know, we're more
of like a bacteria, Like we're just not good a
plague upon earth. Yeah, we we are sort of just
like a virus on this earth.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
To be optimistic, there are things where human and nature interacting,
like I think it's in like braiding sweet grass where
they talk about how humans actually tending to sweet grass
actually made them more productive and better crops. Total plague.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Every once in a while, we do some cool stuff.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yeah, there's a little harmony.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Going on sometimes we try and balance out the plastic.
But you know, this book is is really really lovely
and the things that got me to us how emotionally
intelligent they are. I think we all know. I mean,
I actually take that for granted. A lot of people probably
don't know just how how clever they are as far
as like their use of tools, their use there, how
(22:56):
they can plan, which not that many almost no invertebrates can,
and very few vertebrates can. How I guess there's not
many that like will take a tool because they know
that they're gonna need it in the future, the way
like people do, and like otters do, like certain mammals,
certain kind of birds, like I know ravens do. But
like one example I heard about was how like that
(23:16):
famous one of the octopus taking the coconut shell and
it knew because it was going to an area where
it knew there was very little protection, and so it
needed to and it expended a lot of energy to
carry the shell around.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Locomotion, uh, where they.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Run on their little feet, where it like runs on
two little arms.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
No, that's like an actual thing where sciences are like, yeah,
two octopus arms are actually legs and.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh that's right. Yeah. So it's running its little like
octopus legs carrying its shell, which must be like exhausting.
The poor thing is like ugh, but it's like if
I don't have this, I'm gonna get eaten by a jar,
which is not good either. But I love that that
proves that they like they understand future consequence and they
plan for it. And it's like there's very few species
(24:02):
that do that.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
I think if we searched harder we could find more.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
We probably could, we just haven't. Yeah, but like whatever,
let's give it to him for the moment. Like, well, yes,
but you know, and how like playful they are with objects,
how they can open jars and get into jars. But
reading this, oh, also the random fact I learned how
they can fit into anything that's larger than their eyeball. Yes,
I read that too. Then their be cool because the
beak is the only hard thing. Oh so their eyes.
(24:27):
So I'm wrong about that.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I thought.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
So the guys are still squeezy enough, okay, because that
is nuts that they can like squeeze their body into
anything large. Oh my god, that's so cool.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
It's also like a huge problem in keeping octopuses.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I'm sure, but they well that's in this book. She
talks about one that like kept getting out and it
would get into other tanks in the aquarium and they
eat the fish that it actually liked and then go
back into its own.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah, our current lab octopus will get into the filter
system so like ump water in and out of the tank.
He likes to hide in that little pipe and then
we're like where is he? And then we like lift
up the pipe and we're like, oh, oh hey, brouh.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
How big is he? A little guy? Okay, okay, like
the size of a softball.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
He's a ruby octopus. And his name is Carmichael. All right,
we call him Kerns.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
But yeah, this book made me want to have a pet,
one because they like she talks about there's one especially
you're shaking here, but there's one. I know some people
do get them as pets, but you have to have
like a giant take and like those.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
People have a lot of money and too much time
on their hands.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah that's fair. I would really That's what I want
is to have.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Too much money, a lot of money and a lot
of time on your hands.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah exactly right now I only have the time when
I need money. But so she she talks about one
that I love that it really didn't like one of
the interns at the aquarium and it would like purposely
ambush him and it could like it figured out very
quickly who he was, and they couldn't figure out what
he did to piss it off. But something about this guy,
(25:58):
this octopus was just like I can hate you. And
it would literally it would hide and she would It
was this female octopus. She was a gipsific octa, and
she would go and she would hide up at the
top so he couldn't see her. And she learned his schedule,
so she knew when he was walking past the top
of her tank, and then she would squirt him with water.
She would like completely like jet douse this poor man
(26:20):
with water to where like he would have to like
skirt around the edge to get around her take because
she figured it out. And every time to walk by,
she would just like drench him and there was nothing
they could do. They were like, what did you do?
And he was like, I don't know, I don't know
why she hates me so much.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
We had a lab octopus that hated one of our
lab members and he would ink every single time he
came into the room. Oh really, nobody else, but only
when that man came in. And it was a pain
because when they ink, you have to get the ink out,
and so it was just like and then he would
like get the ink out and then he'd ink at
him again. And then it was just like somebody else
needs to come in here.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
You wonder it, like why, I just love how this
octopus like literally learned this sky's schedule. It was like
I know that at this time on this day, this
guy's going to roll by and I'm going to fucking
soak him because it makes him mad.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
You probably didn't even like learn the schedule, just like
learn the man's face.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Probably, And it just like waded and it was like
I see you coming, like I.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
See that man, and I got me like zip.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Up to my hiding spot. And then it also but
it became really attached to her, and she said, like
it loved like holding her, like it would love to
like like she'd put her It would like reach up
and she would put her hand in and it really
loved holding her arm and stroking her.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
That's how they get a sense of their environment. I mean,
their arms are just like giant tongues. So yeah, it
was just like tasting her.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
But apparently it really liked the taste of her. But
she said there was something about how they can literally
taste emotion because they can tell your oh the changing
chemicals on your skin. Basically, yeah, she said she says
in the bucklies that they can sort of like because
the sense resource is strong, that they could tell sort
of like where she was. So she was like, one
time she came in and she was really star us
(28:00):
out something bad. It happened on that day, I don't remember,
and then like I think, like her car barked something.
She was having a really bad day, and she reached
in and it touched her, and she was like, it
immediately sensed that something was up. And she's like, I
think I had to do with my heart rate. And
it found this spot on her the inside of her elbow,
like in the crook of her arm, and it stroked it.
(28:20):
And she looked up later that that's a pressure point
and if you're in distress, if you do touch that spot,
it lowers your heart rate. So she was like, somehow
this octopus figured out a way to soothe me very quickly.
And she was like, I think it somehow picked up
that I was upset, and it did what it could
think of to calm me.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
I think that's a little bit of anthropomicization, a little
bit of you know, making connections in your head that
maybe aren't what is actually going on, but it does
make it very cute and probably a very warm warming
story to her.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
That's why I wanted a pet one. I was like, well,
then maybe would I having a bad day, I'll just
like cuddle my octopus, don't.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
I mean most giant Pacific octopuses. Maybe, but you're not
going to have a giant Pacific octopus. You're gonna have
a different species of octopus and it's not going to
give a single Probably.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Why why the giant Pacific Why is that one special?
Speaker 4 (29:13):
A little bit more puppy dog like, Like they're a
little bit more interactive, They're a little bit more curious.
It could be because of their size, like you know,
they are so big. They're the biggest octopus species that
you know, there's less fear of predation from like a
human per se.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
But like the little also live the longest, right.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yeah, they live about three to five years five years
in captivity, shorter in the and.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Sorry I know where of a time. But I learned
recently about how they I think, and this I think
is a parallel to people. How like, excuse me, their evolution,
how originally they started with shells like five hundred million
years ago. Whenever they started they had shells at someone
they lost the shell, and so they had to become smart, Yeah,
because they have no other defense. The defense, But isn't
(29:59):
there kind of like people like we're just mushy meats acts.
We don't have good things. We don't have claws, we're
not fast, we can't breathe under water, like we can't fly,
like the only thing we have is our brains. And
in a way, like I think they're similar, but they
have evolved better than us because their whole body is
their brain basically right in a lot of ways, and
(30:21):
the fact that, like you said, like each arm can
act independently because it has its own layer of neurons,
and just they're so biologically complex in a way that
I think probably supersedes people in a way considering.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Their size, your definition, you know, Yeah, well that's true.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I guess as far as like survival goes, like we
can't see three sixty, I mean you do.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Have like sell communication throughout your whole body. That's all
that the oxytr is doing is that their communication is
like widespread, and like we have that in a lot
of ways too. It's just that ours kind of always
goes back to our central nervous system where theirs is
you know, they don't have 're distributed. Yeah, it's decentralies.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
But thank you. That's that's what they made me think of.
Was just that was when you talk about what got
you into them, that's what got me into them. And
now whenever, now I follow so many octopus accounts, like
I love it, like I love when I'm just like
or like a love YouTube rabbit hole about them, Yeah,
and just like watching videos and oh my god, watching
them dream? Oh yeah, is that true? Or is that
(31:21):
a myth? When they're like a sleep and you watch
them flashing colors and textures, is it them dreaming or
what do you think that is?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
So there's debate over that. There's some scientists who say that, yes,
this is dreaming, but there's other scientists who say, you know,
we can't be certain that that's what it is because
we're kind of still looking at it from our perspective
of dream because we only know dreaming and everything from
our perspective, and that doesn't necessarily mean that octopuses are
experiencing the same exact thing we are, Like, we don't
(31:50):
really have a great way of knowing that, but it
does look like they're dreaming.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I don't know if you guys have been reading the
news or more about sleep. And sleep's important to us
because it's essentially a form of neural cleansing.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Your brain little just a little rewiring.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Yeah, and I was wondering if, like maybe it's actually
because their brain is decentralized, it actually is a form
of neural cleansing. Anyway, random thought of the moment.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, that is a good I hadn't thought about that.
I thought about it though. That makes total sense though, Okay,
well another hard I have to pick who wins. Yeah,
(32:37):
whatever that means. This was also a unique episode because
neither because I feel like both of ours were very
much just like Mike tell us things you tea Did
I get that right? Because we bother are just like.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, okay, well I will have to say I think
Ryan is the winner. I really like, I really liked
how do you explain things? And that you really like
took the time to like teach it to yourself and
understand sort of these more like complex things that are
going on. And I think you did a really great
job at like re explaining that for a general public audience.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I was channeling you.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
So well done.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
No, I like yours to Michael. You're just a very
feely take.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And you know what, Oh thank you. Also, this was
another where we're rare one Ryan, where we had similar
things because I was going to talk about the camouflage.
Oh that's the thing I learned about was the little
color sax and the three layers of skin and how
like it's the color saxon and the reflective and stuff.
So it's just you start going and I was like, okay, cool, Well,
I'm just good to have that book.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
You have like two great, really good perspectives, like, you know,
we covered a lot of ground we got.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, No, it worked out beautifully. I am not mad
at this at all, and I fully support your decision
to choose right and I would have done the same.
All right, And so what is our topic for next week?
Speaker 4 (33:58):
New to Brinks?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I'm sorry who nud to branks.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
They are slugs. You may what, you may love them as.
If you look up nudibrink met Gala looks and you
can find a whole entire spread of new to Branks
that look like people at the met Gala.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Okay, not to be confused, with nude brinks, which is
what just came up on my Google, which is not
at all. I didn't even know that.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Was a thing, and you d I b R A
n c H.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I spelled that completely wrong.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
They have like one dramatic little beings. They are crazy looking.
There's so many different types too. They battle with their dicks.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Wait, I think I knew that about these. Now that
I see what they are, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
So they're freaky and they're fabulous, Like I think it's
a great combination.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Ah my god, who doesn't want to be freaking fabulous
at the same day.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Oh my god, I am looking at the met galic
comparisons and it's kind of insane.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Oh wait, can I ask you a question real quick
on your Instagram? Which is fabulous in Verdi babe, which
I love? You did? Which octopus are you? According to
your birth month? I did so I'm May. And this
is also what I was going to ask if we
ran out of time and you chose a Hawaiian bobtail.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
Well, I honestly, I think it became May because my
roommate picked that one.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Great.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
She put a lot more effort into the choices than
I did. I was just gonna randomize it, and she
was like, you can't do this to people. You need
to actually pick them. So she picked most of them.
But a Hawaiian bobtail is it's not a squid or
a cuttlefish or an octopus. It's like its own thing entirely.
And so they're more closely related to.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Cuttlefishes, but okay.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Their own thing. They got the cutest little rump, like
a big fat little butt, and then like huge eyes,
and then they like to bury themselves in the sand,
and so they'll take two of their arms and like
bury themselves. It's the keyest thing ever.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Okay, great, So they have big butts and they love
to cuttle I will take this. That's my birth month, octopus. Yeah,
what was fab?
Speaker 5 (36:17):
Now?
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I have to know what was fab?
Speaker 4 (36:19):
February was? Oh god, because that was my month. I
picked it.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I don't care. I got you. It's it's a vampire squid.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Yag.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Wait, and you have a vampire squid dress, as I
recall from your.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
Yeah, for Halloween this year, I was a vampire squid.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
That's cool. Wait, so vampire squid, tell us a little
bit about them real quick.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
So the vampire squid is also like its own little thing.
So it's not a squid, a cuddlefish, or an octopus.
It's like completely separate, not even like it's more closely
related to octopuses. But one of the hypotheses is that
it's actually kind of like sister species to octopus and squid,
(36:56):
So like vampire squid came first and then to put
some squid. But the cool thing about them is they
live in the oxygen minimum zone in the ocean, so
they live in the deep sea, not a lot of oxygen.
They therefore don't move around a lot, and so in
order to cope with that, they have these modified tentacles
(37:16):
that are these little stringy tendrils filaments, and they catch
animal poop and they eat animal poop.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Oh, I mean it's.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Not as like could be more excited to be a
vampire squid now, no.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, okay, listen, I mean, we all can't have a
fabulous but big bright eyes would love to sleep. But
they eat so.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Spooky and goth and unique and don't.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
I'm also wearing red right now, and they're red.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I've seen a lot of videos of them, and they
are super cool to watch.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
They're very cool. I mean I chose them. They're one
of my favorites. I just tend to like, you know,
any like weirdo creepy months animal out there. I'm like,
I love you, please, You're my favorite. So I chose
vampish with And also they always get said in October
and then.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
February is like, oh that's fair like.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Love thing or like cutesy thing, and I was like, no,
February is.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
My I have to ask what dare you?
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Just to see nice on the twenty second?
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Okay, yeah, I don't know anything about are you still no?
I am an aquarius?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah it's Aquarius. Yeah, I do know.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
I'm an Aquarius Scorpio Scorpio.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Oh man, well, I'm so excited to learn more about
nude branches nudy Branches BNSS.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
There's even an entire calendar out there and Instagram you
can follow called I Love Nudies and they put out
their yearly nudy calendar.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
And they even have merch that says like I love nudies.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Amazing. They must disappoint so many people. It's fantastic, Thank you,
and remind people where they can follow you.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I am on all social media as Invertebabe Instagram. There's
just a period in between because somebody took my user
name before I could snack it. No, I literally like
changed it on all platforms, and then I was like
I'm gonna wait on Instagram, and then next day someone
took it and I was like, well, damn it, but yeah,
(39:22):
you follow me on all those places.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
And good luck with everything with your master.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Yeah yeah, I've already defended, so I passed.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
I'm getting my master's amazing. Good luck and joy coasting
and congratulations.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Yeah,
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