February 11, 2025 • 54 mins
Donald Trump's plan to release the files tied to the assassination of John F. Kennedy has already unearthed nearly 2,400 new documents which might shed light on the mystery of whether there was indeed a lone shooter, potentially including information on the CIA operative who knew about Lee Harvey Oswald over a month before JFK met his end in Dallas.
In late January, Trump signed an executive order authorizing the release of the remaining classified records about the 1963 shooting in one of his first acts after returning to the White House. Hy and Christopher are joined on the program by Jefferson Morley, a former Washington Post Reporter & Editor who is an expert on the assassination as well as vice president of the nonpartisan Mary Ferrell Foundation, the nation's largest source of online records of Kennedy's killing. He writes on these subjects at jfkfacts.substack.com.
In 2011, Morley sued the U.S. government for more records. As he explained, "The FBI is finally saying, 'Let's respond to the president's order,' instead of keeping the secrecy going. As the FBI has gone about reviewing about 14,000 pages of documents in response to the order, with a new set of records brought to the White House’s attention on Friday.
In late January, Trump signed an executive order authorizing the release of the remaining classified records about the 1963 shooting in one of his first acts after returning to the White House. Hy and Christopher are joined on the program by Jefferson Morley, a former Washington Post Reporter & Editor who is an expert on the assassination as well as vice president of the nonpartisan Mary Ferrell Foundation, the nation's largest source of online records of Kennedy's killing. He writes on these subjects at jfkfacts.substack.com.
In 2011, Morley sued the U.S. government for more records. As he explained, "The FBI is finally saying, 'Let's respond to the president's order,' instead of keeping the secrecy going. As the FBI has gone about reviewing about 14,000 pages of documents in response to the order, with a new set of records brought to the White House’s attention on Friday.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Bied holes, the politicians, the press, the digitators and magicians.
Who's to see the money? Then you don't. There's nothing
to fill the holes while there are feeling their high
kits tied holes, the politicians bouncing down the road, every
(00:23):
bider'sition for no more corruption and dysfunction. It's gone to
take divine its avention.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And God bless all out there. You are now listening
to the founders show the voice of the founding fathers.
You're Founding Fathers coming to you deep within the bowels
of those mystic and cryptic alligator swamps of the Baghasy,
that old Crescent City, New Orleans, Louisiana, and high up
on top of that old Liberty Cypress tree way out
(00:54):
on the Eagles Branch. This is none other. Then you
spend gary by by the republic Chaplain High Henry with.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Ever Tid Moore, You Roving a reporter, resident radical moderate
and associate editor of the Louisiana Weekly newspaper at Louisiana
Weekly dot net. And Hi, I had a special opportunity.
Some people know I do occasional tours on the New
Orleans connection to the JFK assassination.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Right, and I also do the same.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes, well, i'm a license to I am. But the
fact of the matter is I get a couple of calls,
and it is interesting because I was through a friend
who's also named Jeff. I was put I was put
in touch with Jefferson Morley to come on the tour.
And I said, wait, this name is familiar. He and
(01:41):
his wife, Jefferson Morley. Where do I know this from?
And I realized that this was the editor of jfkfax
dot org, one of the leading scholars of the JFK assassination.
So when I when I when I ran in. So
when I met Jeff Morley and his wife at the
Double Tree Hotel to tell them to or I said,
I don't know which one of us should be doing
(02:02):
this tour. You're the guru. I feel a little intimidated
coming out and giving the tour to you, of all people,
but for those that don't know. JFK Facts at org
is one of the leading websites of JFK researchers on
the assassination the related events to it. And I was
privileged to sort of give the New Orleans connection to
(02:23):
Jeff Morley and to show him sort of the connection
and role of Clay Shaw in this city. How close,
for example, Lee Harvey Oswald's uncle's bar was to the
events that were happening. How the Pickwick Club and doctor
auction Are laid in and took him down to Raleigh Foods.
And for anyone who's been interested in the JFK assassination,
of course, this has been in the news quite a
(02:44):
bit as the remaining JFK and MLK assassination files were
released by President Trump. This remains one of the great mysteries.
And of course the apex of this mystery for all
of us is New Orleans. If there was a conspiration,
it merged out of New Orleans where where Lee Harvey
Oswald was up to thirty days before the Kennedy assassination.
(03:09):
And for those that don't know, it was a New
Orleans talk show host by the name of Ed Butler
actually who actually on the radio who interviewed him. It
was Ed Butler who first put me on the radio
on WTIX six ninety am some twenty seven years ago.
And this week actually and he came in and he
(03:29):
was walking out and he saw Lee Harvey Oswald. He
was with doctor Alton Auctionner, actually and he saw Lee
Harvey Oswald on the streets passing out hands off Cuba
and immediately goes over invites him to come onto WGSO
radio and he interviews him. It becomes the Profiles and Read,
which makes Ed's career, but it also leads to a
(03:50):
lot of questions. And Jefferson Morley, you know you're excited
by this because I saw your face lighting up as
I brought you to these different places. You have dedicated
the last several decades to becoming one of the scholars
of the assassination. And what I've always admired about you
is you're not someone who jumps into conspiracy theories at all.
You're someone who very scientifically looks at the questions, what
(04:11):
questions were pressing, what questions were sort of beyond the pale,
Who was credible, who was not, and what were the relationships.
And I got to say, it was an honor to
take you on my tour because I learned as much
from you, if not more, than you ever learned from me. So,
Jefferson Morley, welcome to the Founder Show with Hi McHenry
and Christopher.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Please, Jeff Thanks for having me. Yeah, my name, my
name is. My name is Jeff Morley. I'm a journalist
in Washington, and Christopher says I've been studying the Kennedy
assassination for the past thirty years, on and off. I'm
done a lot of other things, but that's been a
mainstay a keen interest of mine. I grew up all
(04:50):
over in St. Louis, New York City, and Minneapolis. I
went to Yale College, graduated from there in nineteen eighty,
came to Washington as a young aspiring journalists, and pretty
much been here ever since. So worked for a wide
variety of publications, The Nation and the New Republic, and
(05:10):
then the Washington Post, where I was an editor and
a reporter for about fifteen years, in Washingtonpost dot com,
where I was the World News editor, and then took
a buy out and had been writing books, three books
about the CIA, which led me into the JFK story.
I came to the JFK story not through the literature
(05:32):
of conspiracy, but through reporting on the CIA in Central
America in the nineteen eighties, when that was when the
Civil Wars in Central America were a big issue in
American politics. So my interest in the CIA led me
into the JFK story, and now I run the JFK
BAX blog on some stack where you can follow the
(05:56):
latest developments in the JFK story, of which there are many.
We are in a very you know, a lot of
ferment around the last of the JFK records, President Trump's
or were this process been going on for years and
you know what's finally going to happen. That's we'll find
out in the next few days.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Well, and it's interesting because when the Warren Commission reports
were supposed to fully come out and didn't quite fully
come out. I was I remember a news crew for
CBS News called me and they were they wanted to
interview and said, would we get some some THUNDERBOWLT issues?
And I said, honestly, no, I don't think based on
(06:36):
what I have heard the sources I've talked to, that
we're going to learn a huge amount that's new, But
we will learn a few new perspectives and voices that
we haven't heard of us. What are the early indications
on the on the latest release of information? Are we
going to learn any? Is there any promise of learning
something any frightening or a new or is this going
to be kind of more of the same, A lot
(06:57):
of unsure stuff and.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Will there be a lot redacted? Was concerned about that?
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Well, I mean, if the president's order is followed, there
will be zero reactions. Right. The point is to get
rid of all the redactions. Now is that going to happen?
I don't think the president asked for a plan in
fifteen days, which is tomorrow. Okay, So I think we
might have a plan tomorrow. I doubt we'll have documents.
(07:24):
And look, the CIA has been has a consistent pattern
of behavior around assassination related records, and it's had this
pattern since the day President Kennedy died. They lie about
these records, and they've lied consistently all sixty two years.
So you know, the fact that the president has put
(07:46):
some words on paper, I don't think that that means
that the CIA is necessarily going to comply if the
past is any indication they are going to bring to
bear arguments on the president. Arguments with they brought to
bear on him in twenty seventeen, and we're say brought
to bear on President Biden. And in those cases both
(08:07):
presidents very different presidents went along with the CIA. So
if the pass is any indication, we're going to get
more foot dragon from the CIA and other agencies. Now
we're in a different political environment. The president won the election.
He won it four and scored no matter what you
think of him, and he's very clear that these documents
(08:27):
should all be released full and complete. So is there
something in these documents if we get full and complete? Absolutely,
And I'm going to tell you about two documents that
have I mean, are they a smoking gun? You know,
smoking gun? I don't care for cliche.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
And for those just joining us, Jefferson Morley, he is
the sisop, the operator, the editor of jeffkfax dot org
is joining Hi McCann and Christopher Tidmore here on the
Founder show in WR and O and WSLA. And what
are these two documents, Jeff?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
So, the first one is a personnel file of an
under cover officer named George Joannedes. He was stationed in
Miami in nineteen sixty thirty. He was the chief of
Covert Action Operations in nineteen sixty three. And we have
learned from JFK documents released since the nineteen nineties that
he was guiding and funding and monitoring the Cuban Student
(09:19):
group which publicized Lee Harvey Oswald's actions before and after
Kennedy's assassination. So the publicity about Lee Harvey Oswald before
the CIA in was generated by a CIA front group
in New Orleans in augusteen sixty three.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yes, the important for the story we tell later, folks continue.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yes, yeah, So the Cuban Student Directorate, which Joannides was
in charge of and meeting with and giving a lot
of money to, generated this propaganda. Now we didn't know
about the CIA is hidden hand in this group until
the nineteen till the late nineteen nineties. So there's a
personnel file for joann Edes which relates to his actions
(10:06):
in nineteen sixty three and sixty four, and then again
in nineteen seventy eight when Joannedes returns to the JFK file.
And this is why this document is smoking. I wouldn't
say it's a smoking gun, but it has fumes of suspicion. Okay.
Fifteen years after the assassination, Congress reopens the investigation of JFK,
(10:27):
saying there's some things we didn't know and we want
to look into this again. Joann Edes is then retired.
He's called out of retirement and sent back to be
the liaison to the congressional investigators. That is, he's the
guy who's from the CIA who's going to help them
find interview people, find relevant documents, and investigate the assassination.
(10:48):
And he does not do that. What he does is
when asked what he was doing in nineteen sixty three
when his agents were in contact with Oswald, he rise
and he said I don't know. And in fact, the
Congressional investigators asked him who was running those human students
(11:09):
in Miami in nineteen sixty three, and they never imagined
that they themselves were looking at the answer he was
the guy who was running them. He said I don't know,
and completely derailed their investigation and so they never found
out what was going on. So this is a very
suspicious incident, not only because the CIA generated propaganda about
(11:32):
Oswald before the assassination, but then they hid their hand
in it from congressional investigators in a way that frankly
was obstruction of congress, which is a felony. So that
document which contains forty four different documents, that file contains
forty four different documents about Joannidi's actions in nineteen sixty two,
(11:53):
sixty three, sixty four, and also in nineteen seventy eight
when he stonewalled Congress. When we seen that file, we
will understand the JFK assassination in a new way, I believe,
because that file will tell us that the CIA launched
an operation targeting Lee Harvey Oswald in January nineteen sixty three.
(12:17):
Now was that operation a conspiracy to kill the president?
I don't know. I haven't seen the documents, but what
everything that I'm telling you is true about the CIA
surveillance of Oswald and this file which is still.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
With Hill, and it's we have another document we need
to get to that we're looking for. We're talking about
the release at President Trump's orders of the documents remaining
for the JFK assassination files with the gentleman who's one
of the experts on it, Jefferson Morley, former Washington Post
writer and editor, and his website is jfkfax dot org.
(12:51):
He's joining Hi mc kenry Christopher timbre in the Founder
Show and we're going to talk about that because it
sort of fits in with some of the stuff I
was telling you when you were down here about ri
Oss Wall in the streets. It kind of that it
seems accidental that somebody who had this very different kind
of life was the one passing out hands off Cuba
(13:12):
on the corner at Exchange Alley, in the corner of
Canal Street. But yeah, I want to give you tease.
There were two big revelations coming out Jefferson Morley. What
is the other one?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Well, he was also the international trademark doing that. I
saw those early pamphlets by the way, I heard him
on the radio show.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
The thing to understand about that story about Joann Edes,
I mean about about Oswald fighting with the Cubans on
Canal Street and going on the radio with Ed Stuckey
and handing out pamphlets. All of that action took place
in connection with, in contact with, and at the behest
of the Cuban Student Record, which was a CIA funded
(13:49):
organization run by Joanned So there was no way to
know that at the time. But now we understand that
a CIA case officer was handling and funding this group
that was generating all this attention for Oswald. So the
natural question is what's going on, you know, and we
want to see the file, So that that's one that's
(14:11):
very obvious. A second one A second A second document
that I think has very explosive potential is you have
to if you want to understand what's going to come
out soon, you have to understand what's just come out before. Okay,
what have we learned in recent years? And I'm not
talking about Alris Stone and I'm not talking about Gerald
(14:32):
Posner whose book is thirty years old, and I'm not
talking Stone's movie is thirty years old. I'm talking about
what have we learned since all of those type those stories,
What new information have we learned? And one of the
things that we've learned in recent years is that the
story that we heard the Oswald was this lone nut
who was essentially unknown to US security forces the falls
(14:58):
that story is not true. I mean, factually it's not true.
Lee Harvey Oswell was not a lone nut. He was
a known quantity to the CIA, and not just to
random people in the CIA, but to James Angleton, one
of the most powerful men in the agency. He was
the chief of counter Intelligence, and from nineteen fifty nine
(15:19):
November nineteen fifty nine to ninth November nineteen sixty three,
she was keeping track on new Orleans favorite son, the
very obscure but seemed to be very famous Lee Harvey Oswell,
the top man in the CIA, was monitoring the president's
alleged assassin for four years. When November twenty first, when
(15:40):
President when President Kennedy leaves for Dallas, James Angleton office
is in possession of a one hundred and eighty plus
page dossier on Oswald. That fact, and it is a fact.
I have the file and we'll show it to any
reporter who is interested. That fact means that, you know,
the story of the assassination of this guy came out
(16:02):
of nowhere and killed the president. It's just not true.
A guy very well known to the top of the
CIA killed the president. If that's the story, okay, then
let's get to the bottom of that, because that's not
the story that we've been told since nineteen This.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Isn't a lunatic, a lone actor.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, he was a contract agent for the CIA.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Well, I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
No, no, no, no, no, no no no. I do
not say the Harvey Oyswell was a contract.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
But I do.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, yeah, but we don't.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Okay, Well, I know of no evidence neither to share it.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Well, no, but here's here's the thing. There's a lot,
there's a lot of things that don't add up, and
that's when we talk about.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
But there's there's so there's so much fire. The evidence
is preponderant. It's all over the place, and you know
with all that smoke, something's got to be going well.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
And that that is factual, That there's a lot more
to the story than people would have You know that
this is not a case of alone lunatic. It is
a much more difficult thing. We've got to be very
careful when when I when I give these tours, I
like to say I can only speak of things of
people that I know, in facts and documents that I've seen.
(17:08):
And so it's always one of the just because people
have said something or it seems like it might be
that way, we have to be careful.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Having said that, Christ for the House Select Committee on Assassinations,
every bit is August a body of people. As the
Warrant Commission declared that Oswald was not the loan gunment
and it was a conspiracy. In their conclusions they did
a thorough investigation on the Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Okay, here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
As an impressional record.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Well, and I know that they're a congressmen who said
that as a congressional committee. IVEN know four congressmen who
made that asert as a congressional committee. I have seen that, Jeff,
have you seen that before? I'm curious. I yesinations, just
look at But.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
The House Select Committee on assassinations did conclude that there
had been a conspiracy and said that they couldn't identify
the perpetraders that information. Okay, that's very important. But we
now have all of the records that the House Select
Committee had, so we're in a position to say much
more than they were. For example, the House Select Committee
didn't know that George Joannides was lying to them. They
(18:14):
only discovered that twenty years later.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Very good, Very good.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
So now now we got to get to the bottom
and get all that and get all of the records.
So what was you know? And I want to say that,
you know, I have a list of twelve or thirteen.
I mean, it's the list will grow. These are the
key records that we know are in the possession of
the government that should come out and that's really you know,
(18:40):
to me, this is really the acid test. We can
sit around and talk about what's your favorite theory and
all of that. The only thing that matters here is
do you want to get all of these documents are
not and that's the.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Past, and that's what we're hoping, you know. Yeah, and
Jefferson all that thought. There's an early of JFK Fax
that Org is joining Hi mckenry, Christopher Timore and the
Stition of Foundery Show on the eve of the release, hopefully,
we hope at the at the orders of President Trump,
of the remaining documents having to do with the JFFKA
assassination and also the Martin Luther King assassination. Folks, we're
(19:12):
sort of looking at what will be the missing links,
the parts that kind of indicate that the conspiracy was
much higher than people have ever thought. And yes, ladies
and gentlemen, that many of us have suspected. We'll be
back with more on this subject after these important messages.
Stay tuned more of the Founded Show here on w
R and O and WSL.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Right after this.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
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(19:57):
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(20:17):
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Speaker 2 (22:25):
Well, folks, you're listening to the Founders Show, and I
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(22:48):
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(23:11):
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Speaker 3 (23:21):
Christopher's Ed Moore and we're joined by one of the
leading scholars of JFK assassination facts figures documentation. He is
a brilliant and former Washington Post writer and editor. He's
an author of multiple books and I had the privilege
of meeting him here in New Orleans as he was
sort of trashing the trail of where Lee Harvey Oswald
(23:42):
was passing out the pamphlets, clay Shaw was walking, and
all of the different elements in the thirty days before
Kennedy and Jefferson Morley, we got so much more to
talk about.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Go ahead of One thing I'm observing just getting to
know you, Jefferson, is that it seems like you deal
strictly with all of the facts. You have to have
documented evidence, and that's great. I appreciate shape that very much.
Yet you've done a very thorough job on this. So
I value your information and insights on this, and I
have some interesting things to talk with you about if
we have time. If not, we'll do it off the air.
About what I know personally about Lee Harvan. Remember, I
(24:14):
grew up in this city when all this was happening.
I knew clay Show, I knew Irvin Times, I knew
I had contexts to Oswald, and I go on and on.
It's a long story. So I have a whole lot
of information about it. But you're bringing out the official records,
which is very important. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Go ahead. So you know, Christopher, your trip, your tour
of New Orleans and some of the sites associated with
the JFA story really bought alive to me. You know,
the immediacy of the story and and and how it
was setting where it took place. So while I'm very
familiar with these events, to actually see them and have
(24:55):
you explain the characters and the culture of New Orleans,
that really helps understand.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
And it is important because it is in New Orleans
that Oswald goes public with his support for the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee, a leftist organization that would have
been infiltrated by the CIA and FBI.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Many cases, and and and.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
And targeted for destruction, and and where his confrontations with
the Cuban Student Directorate, which which create his profile. One
important thing to understand is the whole story that Leharvy
Oswald was a pro castro, you know, assassin. That story,
(25:41):
all of the evidence that is used to advance that
story was generated by this CIA propaganda operation, the Cuban
Student Directorate Cold name am Spell, which was run by
this case officer George Joannides. So that's right at the
heart of the story. And that's why I say that
(26:03):
thing's the acid test for Trump's JFK files plan. If
we get this document, it's a serious plan. If we
don't get this document, it's not a serious plan. It's
that simple in my mind now. But that said, this
isn't like, this isn't make or break. You know, I'm
not looking for a smoking gun, right, that's a That's
why I say I don't like the cliche. JFK researchers
(26:25):
who I work with, we're looking at the fact pattern,
and so we're looking at what if we learned before,
what are the holes and what might we learn in
the future. And we're trying to put pieces together. So
we're not looking for a smoking gun. We're looking to
fill out the fact pattern. And so the fact pattern
to us is the fact pattern is that the official
story just isn't true. It's not true. It's not established,
(26:49):
it's not it's not it's not the.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Case, amen, that one guy who.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Is unknown to the CIA fired three shots that the
President's limits in two of you missed and that's the
whole of the story.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
And the magic bullet is the one that finally got them.
I mean, this is insane, Yeah, yeah, insane.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
So if that's not true, what did happen? And that's
what we're looking at. And so in my list of
important documents to come, which I fully expect we could
and should see soon, like within a month if there's
a serious disclosure process. Is not only about Joinees, but
(27:27):
also about other activities that were taking place in New Orleans.
And then we mentioned a couple of other items of
documents that are on my list. There was a CIA
project with the code name and World in nineteen sixty
three and sixty four, and there's three officers who were
associated with that program who also seem to have been
(27:49):
floating around watching knowledgeable about Oswald in New Orleans. And
those three officers are a man named Emilio Rodriguez who
is a very high regarded CIA penetration agent, Tony Schwarza
who was involved in assassination operations, and David Phillips, who
was the chief of Cuba operations in nineteen sixty three.
(28:12):
So these records about what Amerald was doing in Louisiana,
there was a CIA training military training camp there. Those
are an important part of what we could find out
about the story because you know, the CIA eyes on
Oswald in the summer of nineteen sixty three, there's a
(28:34):
lot of CIA's eyes on him, and we want to
know all of that story because that's the KEIVA understanding
how he was manipulated.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Jeff, So just give y'all a little Christopher.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
For those just Jordius Jefferson Morley is joining him Kenry
and Christopher Tidmore here in the Found show.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
My background all this as far as training goes, let's
say my background Trios Army Special Forces, So was Connor
intelligence agent for them, hold a TS SCI clearance. I've
had three combat tours and I've also worked for the
Defense Intelligence Agency as a GS thirteen, so I have
a pretty heavy background in intelligence operations either working how
(29:12):
the CIA works. We shared a safe house with them
in Afghanistan and three because SF that means Green Berets
Special for US Army Special Force, and the CIA came
out of the originally out of the same organization, the OSS,
So to this day we still work close together. But
you know what, we don't trust the CIA because we've
seen so many bad things they've done, like bringing downloading
(29:34):
tons of USAID supplies, food and medical equipment to the
terrorists down to Latin America. We have witnesses. I have
a good friend who ran over too many camps and
they were loaded with all this USA stuff. So we
don't trust the CIA and SF we got to work
with them. We don't feel safe with them.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
One of the points, Chef that I made when I
make of my tour is I said, first, remember how
geographically close Oswald was is to everything else that's going
on the Riley Food Company. Where who were who were
actually funding a lot of this operations? Hailbox's office for
the House on American Activities can be the CIA hail office,
all within about two or three blocks. Ed Butler discovers
(30:14):
Lee Harvey oswhile walking out of the Pickpit club with
doctor Auctionner, who's involved in this. I make that point,
but I also said, you know, there's one other thing
that's really important. Where was Lee Harvey Oswell passing out
these hands off Cuba in front of his uncle's bar
effectively about half a block away at Exchange Alley and
which was a front operation for the Marcello family, and
(30:35):
so also.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
The Trade Center Well, which was where clay Shaw's office, Well, yeah,
which is which is right? Every day he'd leave the
Riley Coffee walked across the street to visit Banister, a
retired CIA agent top level who is now working Uh,
I mean for the I'm sorry, it was retired at
f Big now working for the CIA every day he
was in his office. Well on multiple eyewitness accounts.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
We have eyewitness accounts, and we do we don't have
we actually don't have the fact that the papers I
agree with it actually happened to believe it. But it's
it's one of those things where we have to there's around.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
The record if they've ever interviewed any of those people,
but they would not, I.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Think, say something about the records. The records, it's unlikely
that there's anything about Guy Danis or that's going to
be released, at least in terms of it maybe interesting,
interesting what we understand the documents that are in possession
of the National Archives now.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
So I just wanted to say that.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Jefferson, so go ahead, because this is the release of
the Trump at President Trump's orders of these documents. It reads.
Is one thing that people frequently asked me this question,
and I always have to answer it and explain sort
of the history of New Orleans and what went on
in Latin America. They'll ask me the question, well, what's
(31:55):
the why keep it secret?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Now?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
After all these decades. Corlos Marcel died in nineteen ninety three,
all these things have gone on, and I basically have
to say to people, I said, look New Orleans. This
I always point out to them. A block and a
half from where we stand from the Raleigh Coffee Company
was United Fruits Office, Samson Murray. I said, this was
the center of overthrowing regimes in South America and Central
(32:17):
America for decades. And I said, and it didn't end
with the nineteen sixties. I said, some of the same
players that were involved I knew in the nineteen eighties
that were minor players in the sixties were major players
with the Caribbean Commission and the Nicaraguan contrast. And I
knew them as that was going on. And I said,
(32:40):
it continues to this day. It's not like it's an
elemental that the reason why a lot of documents were
being confidential is it didn't end, it didn't stop. It
still goes on. And I was wondering if you could
address that your long lones Cia.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
You know, one of the things that I took away
from your tour that that impressed me and I realized
it was true, was when you said, when you talked
about the trade New Orleans as a hub of for
Cuba trade, Cuba trade, trade with Havanah and Havana and
(33:16):
New Orleans were very big, and you pointed out even
bigger than the money that organized crime was making. And
I think that's a really important point. Was, Yes, we
all know the story that organized crime was very disturbed
that they'd been thrown out of Havana by the revolutionary
new government. But it wasn't just organized crime figures who
had been disrupted and dispossessed, right, It was major legitimate
(33:40):
economic interests. So you know, whether the organized crime had
influence on this situation, that's one question, but certainly major
economic trade interests that had lost, you know, a lot
of money when trade with Cuba was cut off and
the US imposed and embargo. You know, that's a big
factor in what people did. And that was something that
(34:03):
I took away from from your tour, really learned from it.
Moans as an economic hub of the Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, in the nineteen sixties. And this gets into Clay Shaw.
I mean people will often say, well, how did Clay
shop because the caricature that the JFK, you know, Oliver
Stone movie does doesn't really give him credit. I let
hi who actually did know him. I knew him secondhand
as I described him. Yeah, No, he was a friend
of my grandmother and so on and so forth. You
actually met him. But I think you'll agree with what
(34:31):
I'm about to say he was. He was a suave,
incredibly respected figure who cut across many different social and
economic grounds and organized the creation of the International Trademark
which became the World Trade Center.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
He started the first World Trade Center. News we had
the first one way before New York.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
And so the ultimate point of all of this is
who were the people he was working with. It was
it was the Bill Rileys, it was the Samson Murrays,
it was the economic councils, it was the consuls from
South America. It was the people. We remain in New
Orleans today still the Entropo for eighty percent of the
nation's coffee. We remain one of the major sugar importers
(35:10):
and exports, and so well. Coming out of Cuba alone,
literally you had a series of, for lack of a
better term, plantations. They were at this point industrial farming,
but when they were seized, they were properties of people
who lived in New Orleans. I know because six of
them were my great grandfathers. The Ultrella cigars that ended
(35:32):
up becoming If you ever had a coheba cigar, well,
I hope you enjoyed it. It's tobacco grown to my
family's lands. And the point being that I make to
people is you act like, oh, we couldn't have done this,
couldn't have overthrown. This was something that was fitting in
the New Orleans tradition, going back to Guatemala El Salvador.
This was nothing new and it was something that a
(35:53):
lot of these players were well accustomed and this was
just the next step on the process. And I really
appreciated Jeff that you Jefferson Morley's joining Hi McHenry and
Christopher ted More today on the Founder Show. He's the
editor of jfkfax dot Org from Washington Post, writer and
editor and author of many books. And the thing that
I really got was that you are an expert not
(36:15):
just in the documentation, but showing the links between one
document to another to another that creates this incredible pattern
that is kind of irrefutable, and it's something you have
spent I was talking with your wife, she said, she's
surprised you're not blind sometimes having read these documents as
closely as you do. But you really have It's it
(36:36):
for a journalist, people think. People have this impression that
we as journalist, you know, most of our life is
Woodward and Bernstein meeting with you know, deep throat in
a place. Now, I hate to tell you this, most
of his research in really dusty rooms with a lot
of seemingly useless paper, and talk about that of you, yeah,
poor lighting.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Well yeah, no, And but this this is how you
get down to the core of fact and to strip
away your own biases because we all have them. We
all have stuff we want to believe, and in the
JFK story, we're all prone to it and I'm prone
to it. So own by immersing yourself in it and
(37:21):
standing back and saying, let's keep the theories at bay
and figure out what are the logical consecutive events that
happen here, Who are the players? How do it unfold?
And because we've gotten because of the JFK Records Act
in the JFK Review Board in the nineteen nineties, we
have this much deeper historical record that was really we
(37:42):
didn't have before. It was pretty much controlled by gatekeepers
in the media and in the government, and nobody knew
for thirty years you had to take their word for it.
Now we can go back and see and we can
judge this story independently, and we see that if you
study the fact pattern really carefully, you see a story
that you know what was going on. We're getting closer
(38:04):
to understanding that something that makes more sense. So instead
of having a theory and taking the evidence and hanging
the evidence on our theory, let's look at the facts
and then take the pattern and see when the pattern
comes to us. Right, we don't take the theory and
impose it on the evidence. We take the evidence and
let it rise up to us. What is the pattern there?
(38:25):
What is the What are the facts telling us? Not
what am I telling the facts?
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Right?
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Because that's where most JFK conspiracy theories go wrong. People
say I'm going to I'm going to impose my theory
on the facts. It's too complicated. Event doesn't work that way,
and we're all your model.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
The facts have to build your model fact.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
We're all too prone to bias, and this is the
only way to get to get to get around it.
So so yeah, So I mean New Orleans as a
key part of the story where Oswald grows up Chris
Rher I was very interested in the story of Oswald's uncle,
a bookmaker. You know, so Oswald is you know, he's
(39:07):
he's got a street wise right because because he's grown
up in a mill u where you.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Know, New Orleans. Yeah, yeah, he also lived in New
York City and in Dallas. Well, but as a young
you know, teenager and all that.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
One of the things I point out on my tour
and I thought you kind of just is that b.
Harvey Oswald was a quarter rat, which is a kid
who grew up in the quarter who would have known
that passing out hands off Cuba pamphlets in front of
a mob bar was probably not the healthiest activity you
could have done.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Exactly the owner who you know, I think he did
that for protection, Chris Well, just for the same reason
he did a international trademark.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
He had protection there and so and I agree, Jeffson Mortley.
I'm going to pose a question to you that was
kind of the ultimate question that was posed by your audience.
You were kind of enough to have me, uh speak
on your podcast, and you had a wonderful audience of
people who culminated on the on the question that every
JFK researcher is afraid to answer, which is, what do
(40:12):
you really think happened? And I mean, yeah, and I was.
I was very careful about what I said in all
of this. So I'm going to ask you the same question,
the same at seat.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
Uh. You know, the official the evidence and does not
support the official theory. The president did not die because
a man unknown to the CIA, whose motives are unknown
to the world, fired three shots, two of which missed,
and killed the president.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
With a magic bullet, but the pristine magic bullet, by
the way, that's.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
What happened according to the totality of the events. So
what did happen? Well, if you look at the totality
of the evidence, I say the president was ambushed by
enemies in his own government who had the ability to
make this crime look like something else. In other words,
people skilled in covert action operations. Am I saying there
was a CIA conspiracy? I don't know. I mean that
(41:09):
it looks like it. It looks like people high in
the US government. But they could have been from the Pentagon.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
You have a very powerful motive here.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
It could have been it could have been a Pentagon
plan that was executed with c I a help. It
could have been a CIA plan that was executed with
Pentagon help. It could have been No, I don't think
the I don't think so. Uh but but anyway, so
that's what I think the evidence tells us. Now, who
(41:39):
were those enemies? There's people high in the CIA who
are you know, plausible suspects. But that's about all you
can say that. You know, you can't point a finger
and say that person is a conspirator in Kennedy's death.
Even George Joanese, a man who was very much involved
in the surveillance of Oswea, was he a conspirator in
Kennedy's death? I would say that I don't think the
(42:01):
evidence supports that. I think he was something more like
an accessory after the fact, right, somebody who knew what
had happened. He wasn't part of the crime, but he
knew of the crime. He had guilty knowledge. So that's
why we want to see these records because we can
answer these questions. And you know what, if Norley is
nuts right and there's nothing to this, then release the
(42:23):
records and prove it. You know, the CIA, you think,
if if what I'm saying is wrong, just made up
it's conspiracy theory. Another lunatic little man killed a big man.
Get over it, get lost, there's nothing here, see you later.
If that's true, then release so we can know them. Right.
(42:44):
But you know what, there's only one party in this
dispute that's afraid of full disclosure. And it's not me.
I'm not afraid of full disclosures. The CIA is afraid
of full disclosure. And to me, that tells you a lot.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Okay, but the way went withs so many things we said,
but real quickly Bogs from New Walls lived right near
where we are in fact, uh, and I knew him.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
The only one. He did not sign the warrant commission
and very conveniently died in a classic assassination operation. I
don't know that he was assassinated, but that's how. That's
one of the best ways we were trained to assassinate
people was in airplanes.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
I wish we had more time. I wish we were
time to address that.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I still thought about it.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
I wouldn't I trained.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
How did how did forty key witnesses all mysteriously disappear
doing the Garrison trial? We don't we during that one year?
How did they just all disappear.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
The questions that didn't they did know they died? No, no, no, no,
they didn't.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
People for the Garrison witnesses did not.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
They did not. They did not die.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
They did not.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
All right, but look the point to play we actually
that next time.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Jefferson Morley, we want people to actually go to your website.
It's jeffkfax dot org. And I know you updated almost dale.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
It's it's JFK facts dot sub stack dot com dot com.
If you go to JFK facts dot org, you will
eventually get there, but you're gonna have to do a
bunch of clicks get there.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I bet you're gonna have a treasure chest of information
when they finally release the file in a week or
two or whatever, it's going to be right.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
I mean that that's a big if. I don't know
when we will. I mean we might get we might
get a plan tomorrow, we might get some documents soon.
I don't think we're going to get the key documents soon.
I think we're going to see the forces that are
(44:42):
resistant disclosure. They're gonna they're going to and make themselves known,
and they're going to make their influence known. So are
they successful, you know, against the Trump people who are
trying to enforce the president's order. Will Trump make a
deal with them like he did last time? I assumption.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Yeah, let's find well jeff Jefferson Morlan when you see
the records, Gifson Morley, thank you so much for joining him. Mckenry,
Christal tidbore here at the Founder's Show. We really appreciate it.
Keep us updated. We'd love to have you back if
you can.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Thank you, Thank you, Jeffery good Bleestion, sir, great great information,
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
And we will be back folks after these important messages
with the Patriotic Hour right after this, folks. Tickets now
available to the New Orleans Operas production of Elixir of
Love seven thirty pm April fourth to thirty pm April six.
More information at New Orleans Opera dot orgy New Orleans
Opera dot org.
Speaker 7 (45:38):
Rescue, recovery, re engagement. These are not just words. These
are the action steps we at the New Orleans Mission
take to make a positive impact on the homeless problem
facing the.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Greater New Orleans area.
Speaker 7 (45:53):
We begin the rescue process by going out to the
community every day to bring food, pray, and share the
love of Jesus with the hopeless and hurting in our community.
Through the process of recovery, these individuals have the opportunity
to take time out, assess their life and begin to
make new decisions to live out their God given purpose.
(46:17):
After the healing process has begun and lives are back
on track, we walked each individual as they re engage
back into the community to be healthy, thriving and living
a life of purpose.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
So back and you're listening to the founders and this chaplain, Hi,
I makeenry. It's time for us to go into our
chaplain by bab patriotic moment. We just take a brief
moment to remind you of the biblical foundations of our country,
our Judeo Christian jurisprudence, and today, of all things, I'd
like to speak about President Kennedy, Old JFK. You know
that he had fought the deep State very aggressively in
his day. He called it the conspiracy. In fact, he
(46:58):
made a speech about it and America at American University
where he said that one of his conclusions was that
if without God we could never survive what was going
on at the time, that we needed God. Back in
America again. And you know, shortly before that he had
met with Billy Graham on the golf course, and Billy
Graham has a wonderful testimony that JFK had his epiphany
(47:18):
with the Lord Jesus right there on the golf course.
So it's very interesting to see how Kennedy knew that
God was the key to saving America. And if we
want to make America great again, we better go back
to what made America great in the beginning, and that
was God, as our finding father so repeatedly told us, folks,
we need to make God great again in America. But
(47:41):
it all starts with you. If God's not great with you,
you're not going to be able to make God great
in America again. Ever, you've got to be the key
player here. It's we the people, remember that. So how
can you do that? Well, you'll find out as we
now go into our chaplain bye. By gospel moment again,
I just take a brief moment to you how you
can know how to make God great you how you
(48:03):
can have the Lord Jesus Christ. And it kind of
goes like this. I'm gonna take you to first to
John chapter one, the Gospel of John and verse twelve,
where it says, but as many as received him, that
means the Lord Jesus. It means to receive Christ to
them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to those who believe on his name. Now, this
(48:26):
first chapter is about the how Jesus became a man
fully man, all the way, man, all the way God.
And in this passage he's called the word meaning the Bible.
It's a very powerful philosophical, kind of abstract message of
who Jesus really is and what the Bible is. And
that means when you're holding the Bible and you're holding Christ.
Now what I mean by that, it's not the paper,
(48:46):
it's not the inc and it's not the leather. It's
the message. It's the way that is in the book
that's Jesus. So what is that way? Well, the Bible
says it's a gospel. The script says a gospel is
the power of God and the salvage to who server
believeth And as I mentioned earlier, he said, as many
as received him to them gave he the power to
(49:06):
become the sons of God, even to those who believe
on his name. What does that mean, that's kind of
a little strange at least it always was for me
for many many years, and finally it came to me,
what is his name? His name is Yeseshua, or we
pronounce it Jesus. What does that mean? Well, in Hebrew,
that means God is salvation. So you see the moment
you come to that point in your life where you
(49:27):
know for certain you can't save yourself. That's called repentance,
and that only He can save you. You have just
become a child of God. God has just become great
in your life. That's how you can make God great
in your life. The scripture says, for I declariny of
the Gospel that Christ God for all of our sins.
According to scripture, that he was buried, and that he
(49:48):
rose from the dead to win for each and every
one of us that precious free gift of resurrection, ever
lasting life. To who server believeth Folks, if you've never
believed before, that's all you have to do is believe.
But it's a twofold belief. The first part is believe
you can't save yourself. That's called repentance. And the second
part is to believe that only He can that he did,
and that he will save you from a burning hell
(50:09):
and guarantee you everlasting life. If you've never done this before,
please do it now. Don't wait till it's too late,
like the old country preacher said, and like the Word
of God says. Now today is this day of salvation. Folks.
I hope you got this raight, and I hope you,
if you've never done this before, that you do it,
and you do it soon, because time's are wasting. Jesus
(50:31):
is coming back soon. And what I mean by that
is he's actually coming back to this earth. He's coming
back to this earth to create a perfect political world
which the world has never known. He's gonna rule the
entire world, and he's gonna do it with a rod
of iron, which means he's gonna the best police force
out there. Law enforcement will be the best, which means
criminals aren't gonna be committing crimes anymore. There's gonna be
(50:52):
no want, There's gonna be great prosperity, no illness when
Jesus comes back. But before that time, this great wonderful
times is gonna last for a thought and years, to
call the millennial millennium, It is going to be so
exciting and so wonderful to be on this earth at
that time. But folks, and I'll be there, even though
I be, I will have a resurrected body, I won't
be like you know, like I am now. I'll have
(51:13):
a resurrected body at that point. But there'll be plenty
of people. There's gonna be billions of people on the
earth during that time, and they're going to enjoy all
the blessings that God has always wanted to give us
over that thousand year period, folks. But before that time happens,
it's gonna get really bad around here. They're gonna be
wars and rumors of wars, conspiracies. Even the Bible even
(51:33):
calls it a conspiracy. There's gonna be international conspiracies working
for the complete destruction of this earth. And that Jesus
said if he delayed his coming, there'd be no flesh left.
That's how bad it's getting, folks, and gonna get only
worse as we cruise into the end of this thing. Now,
I know my beloved President Donald Trump is doing the
(51:54):
best he can to overcome all this evil that is
upon us. And he's already doing a remarkable job but
the problem is, sooner or later he will not be
allowed to keep doing all the great things he's doing
because God is going to let the human race have
what it wants, and that means they want a world
without God. And when God finally politely bows out, the
(52:16):
devil's going to take over, and folks, like Jesus said,
there'd be no flesh left. You know, when that prophecy
was made over two thousand years ago, do you realize
there was no way the whole world could be destroyed
at that time? It was impossible. It is impossible, kill everybody,
just impossible. It seems like an absurd prophecy. But folks,
can that happen?
Speaker 4 (52:33):
Now?
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Can it happen?
Speaker 7 (52:35):
Now?
Speaker 2 (52:35):
You know very well it can happen. Now we've got
nuclear weapons, We've got the most advanced weapons systems. All
we have to do is set off just maybe five
percent of all the nuclear weapons and that wipes out
the entire human race. Yes, it's possible for there to
be no flesh left on this earth. If you look
at the body counts in the Book of Revelation and
the other passages in the scripture, it's gonna end up
(52:56):
being with there're only gonna be somewhere between fifty to
one hundred million people left on this earth. When Jesus
finally comes back, fights a battle om again, kills all
the bad guys, throws Antichrist and the false Prophet straight
into the lake of fire, puts that the devil and
all devils, bounds them and chains and throws them in
the bottomless pit, so then he can finally recreate the
world for the beautiful world that it's going to be. Folks,
you want to be there for that, and you want
(53:16):
to be on the winning side. And the only way
you can do that is believe in Jesus. Believe that
he really did die for all your sins, was buried
and rose from the dead with child like faith. Faith
alone in Christ alone, folks. Not time for us to go?
As we close with the mont Saint Martin singing a
creole goodbye and God bless you all out?
Speaker 8 (53:34):
Does this have to be the end of the ND?
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Do I love you?
Speaker 8 (53:41):
In the pamal land, I can see across the million stars,
but I look at we can bols
Bied holes, the politicians, the press, the digitators and magicians.
Who's to see the money? Then you don't. There's nothing
to fill the holes while there are feeling their high
kits tied holes, the politicians bouncing down the road, every
(00:23):
bider'sition for no more corruption and dysfunction. It's gone to
take divine its avention.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And God bless all out there. You are now listening
to the founders show the voice of the founding fathers.
You're Founding Fathers coming to you deep within the bowels
of those mystic and cryptic alligator swamps of the Baghasy,
that old Crescent City, New Orleans, Louisiana, and high up
on top of that old Liberty Cypress tree way out
(00:54):
on the Eagles Branch. This is none other. Then you
spend gary by by the republic Chaplain High Henry with.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Ever Tid Moore, You Roving a reporter, resident radical moderate
and associate editor of the Louisiana Weekly newspaper at Louisiana
Weekly dot net. And Hi, I had a special opportunity.
Some people know I do occasional tours on the New
Orleans connection to the JFK assassination.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Right, and I also do the same.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes, well, i'm a license to I am. But the
fact of the matter is I get a couple of calls,
and it is interesting because I was through a friend
who's also named Jeff. I was put I was put
in touch with Jefferson Morley to come on the tour.
And I said, wait, this name is familiar. He and
(01:41):
his wife, Jefferson Morley. Where do I know this from?
And I realized that this was the editor of jfkfax
dot org, one of the leading scholars of the JFK assassination.
So when I when I when I ran in. So
when I met Jeff Morley and his wife at the
Double Tree Hotel to tell them to or I said,
I don't know which one of us should be doing
(02:02):
this tour. You're the guru. I feel a little intimidated
coming out and giving the tour to you, of all people,
but for those that don't know. JFK Facts at org
is one of the leading websites of JFK researchers on
the assassination the related events to it. And I was
privileged to sort of give the New Orleans connection to
(02:23):
Jeff Morley and to show him sort of the connection
and role of Clay Shaw in this city. How close,
for example, Lee Harvey Oswald's uncle's bar was to the
events that were happening. How the Pickwick Club and doctor
auction Are laid in and took him down to Raleigh Foods.
And for anyone who's been interested in the JFK assassination,
of course, this has been in the news quite a
(02:44):
bit as the remaining JFK and MLK assassination files were
released by President Trump. This remains one of the great mysteries.
And of course the apex of this mystery for all
of us is New Orleans. If there was a conspiration,
it merged out of New Orleans where where Lee Harvey
Oswald was up to thirty days before the Kennedy assassination.
(03:09):
And for those that don't know, it was a New
Orleans talk show host by the name of Ed Butler
actually who actually on the radio who interviewed him. It
was Ed Butler who first put me on the radio
on WTIX six ninety am some twenty seven years ago.
And this week actually and he came in and he
(03:29):
was walking out and he saw Lee Harvey Oswald. He
was with doctor Alton Auctionner, actually and he saw Lee
Harvey Oswald on the streets passing out hands off Cuba
and immediately goes over invites him to come onto WGSO
radio and he interviews him. It becomes the Profiles and Read,
which makes Ed's career, but it also leads to a
(03:50):
lot of questions. And Jefferson Morley, you know you're excited
by this because I saw your face lighting up as
I brought you to these different places. You have dedicated
the last several decades to becoming one of the scholars
of the assassination. And what I've always admired about you
is you're not someone who jumps into conspiracy theories at all.
You're someone who very scientifically looks at the questions, what
(04:11):
questions were pressing, what questions were sort of beyond the pale,
Who was credible, who was not, and what were the relationships.
And I got to say, it was an honor to
take you on my tour because I learned as much
from you, if not more, than you ever learned from me. So,
Jefferson Morley, welcome to the Founder Show with Hi McHenry
and Christopher.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Please, Jeff Thanks for having me. Yeah, my name, my
name is. My name is Jeff Morley. I'm a journalist
in Washington, and Christopher says I've been studying the Kennedy
assassination for the past thirty years, on and off. I'm
done a lot of other things, but that's been a
mainstay a keen interest of mine. I grew up all
(04:50):
over in St. Louis, New York City, and Minneapolis. I
went to Yale College, graduated from there in nineteen eighty,
came to Washington as a young aspiring journalists, and pretty
much been here ever since. So worked for a wide
variety of publications, The Nation and the New Republic, and
(05:10):
then the Washington Post, where I was an editor and
a reporter for about fifteen years, in Washingtonpost dot com,
where I was the World News editor, and then took
a buy out and had been writing books, three books
about the CIA, which led me into the JFK story.
I came to the JFK story not through the literature
(05:32):
of conspiracy, but through reporting on the CIA in Central
America in the nineteen eighties, when that was when the
Civil Wars in Central America were a big issue in
American politics. So my interest in the CIA led me
into the JFK story, and now I run the JFK
BAX blog on some stack where you can follow the
(05:56):
latest developments in the JFK story, of which there are many.
We are in a very you know, a lot of
ferment around the last of the JFK records, President Trump's
or were this process been going on for years and
you know what's finally going to happen. That's we'll find
out in the next few days.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Well, and it's interesting because when the Warren Commission reports
were supposed to fully come out and didn't quite fully
come out. I was I remember a news crew for
CBS News called me and they were they wanted to
interview and said, would we get some some THUNDERBOWLT issues?
And I said, honestly, no, I don't think based on
(06:36):
what I have heard the sources I've talked to, that
we're going to learn a huge amount that's new, But
we will learn a few new perspectives and voices that
we haven't heard of us. What are the early indications
on the on the latest release of information? Are we
going to learn any? Is there any promise of learning
something any frightening or a new or is this going
to be kind of more of the same, A lot
(06:57):
of unsure stuff and.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Will there be a lot redacted? Was concerned about that?
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Well, I mean, if the president's order is followed, there
will be zero reactions. Right. The point is to get
rid of all the redactions. Now is that going to happen?
I don't think the president asked for a plan in
fifteen days, which is tomorrow. Okay, So I think we
might have a plan tomorrow. I doubt we'll have documents.
(07:24):
And look, the CIA has been has a consistent pattern
of behavior around assassination related records, and it's had this
pattern since the day President Kennedy died. They lie about
these records, and they've lied consistently all sixty two years.
So you know, the fact that the president has put
(07:46):
some words on paper, I don't think that that means
that the CIA is necessarily going to comply if the
past is any indication they are going to bring to
bear arguments on the president. Arguments with they brought to
bear on him in twenty seventeen, and we're say brought
to bear on President Biden. And in those cases both
(08:07):
presidents very different presidents went along with the CIA. So
if the pass is any indication, we're going to get
more foot dragon from the CIA and other agencies. Now
we're in a different political environment. The president won the election.
He won it four and scored no matter what you
think of him, and he's very clear that these documents
(08:27):
should all be released full and complete. So is there
something in these documents if we get full and complete? Absolutely,
And I'm going to tell you about two documents that
have I mean, are they a smoking gun? You know,
smoking gun? I don't care for cliche.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
And for those just joining us, Jefferson Morley, he is
the sisop, the operator, the editor of jeffkfax dot org
is joining Hi McCann and Christopher Tidmore here on the
Founder show in WR and O and WSLA. And what
are these two documents, Jeff?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
So, the first one is a personnel file of an
under cover officer named George Joannedes. He was stationed in
Miami in nineteen sixty thirty. He was the chief of
Covert Action Operations in nineteen sixty three. And we have
learned from JFK documents released since the nineteen nineties that
he was guiding and funding and monitoring the Cuban Student
(09:19):
group which publicized Lee Harvey Oswald's actions before and after
Kennedy's assassination. So the publicity about Lee Harvey Oswald before
the CIA in was generated by a CIA front group
in New Orleans in augusteen sixty three.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yes, the important for the story we tell later, folks continue.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yes, yeah, So the Cuban Student Directorate, which Joannides was
in charge of and meeting with and giving a lot
of money to, generated this propaganda. Now we didn't know
about the CIA is hidden hand in this group until
the nineteen till the late nineteen nineties. So there's a
personnel file for joann Edes which relates to his actions
(10:06):
in nineteen sixty three and sixty four, and then again
in nineteen seventy eight when Joannedes returns to the JFK file.
And this is why this document is smoking. I wouldn't
say it's a smoking gun, but it has fumes of suspicion. Okay.
Fifteen years after the assassination, Congress reopens the investigation of JFK,
(10:27):
saying there's some things we didn't know and we want
to look into this again. Joann Edes is then retired.
He's called out of retirement and sent back to be
the liaison to the congressional investigators. That is, he's the
guy who's from the CIA who's going to help them
find interview people, find relevant documents, and investigate the assassination.
(10:48):
And he does not do that. What he does is
when asked what he was doing in nineteen sixty three
when his agents were in contact with Oswald, he rise
and he said I don't know. And in fact, the
Congressional investigators asked him who was running those human students
(11:09):
in Miami in nineteen sixty three, and they never imagined
that they themselves were looking at the answer he was
the guy who was running them. He said I don't know,
and completely derailed their investigation and so they never found
out what was going on. So this is a very
suspicious incident, not only because the CIA generated propaganda about
(11:32):
Oswald before the assassination, but then they hid their hand
in it from congressional investigators in a way that frankly
was obstruction of congress, which is a felony. So that
document which contains forty four different documents, that file contains
forty four different documents about Joannidi's actions in nineteen sixty two,
(11:53):
sixty three, sixty four, and also in nineteen seventy eight
when he stonewalled Congress. When we seen that file, we
will understand the JFK assassination in a new way, I believe,
because that file will tell us that the CIA launched
an operation targeting Lee Harvey Oswald in January nineteen sixty three.
(12:17):
Now was that operation a conspiracy to kill the president?
I don't know. I haven't seen the documents, but what
everything that I'm telling you is true about the CIA
surveillance of Oswald and this file which is still.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
With Hill, and it's we have another document we need
to get to that we're looking for. We're talking about
the release at President Trump's orders of the documents remaining
for the JFK assassination files with the gentleman who's one
of the experts on it, Jefferson Morley, former Washington Post
writer and editor, and his website is jfkfax dot org.
(12:51):
He's joining Hi mc kenry Christopher timbre in the Founder
Show and we're going to talk about that because it
sort of fits in with some of the stuff I
was telling you when you were down here about ri
Oss Wall in the streets. It kind of that it
seems accidental that somebody who had this very different kind
of life was the one passing out hands off Cuba
(13:12):
on the corner at Exchange Alley, in the corner of
Canal Street. But yeah, I want to give you tease.
There were two big revelations coming out Jefferson Morley. What
is the other one?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Well, he was also the international trademark doing that. I
saw those early pamphlets by the way, I heard him
on the radio show.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
The thing to understand about that story about Joann Edes,
I mean about about Oswald fighting with the Cubans on
Canal Street and going on the radio with Ed Stuckey
and handing out pamphlets. All of that action took place
in connection with, in contact with, and at the behest
of the Cuban Student Record, which was a CIA funded
(13:49):
organization run by Joanned So there was no way to
know that at the time. But now we understand that
a CIA case officer was handling and funding this group
that was generating all this attention for Oswald. So the
natural question is what's going on, you know, and we
want to see the file, So that that's one that's
(14:11):
very obvious. A second one A second A second document
that I think has very explosive potential is you have
to if you want to understand what's going to come
out soon, you have to understand what's just come out before. Okay,
what have we learned in recent years? And I'm not
talking about Alris Stone and I'm not talking about Gerald
(14:32):
Posner whose book is thirty years old, and I'm not
talking Stone's movie is thirty years old. I'm talking about
what have we learned since all of those type those stories,
What new information have we learned? And one of the
things that we've learned in recent years is that the
story that we heard the Oswald was this lone nut
who was essentially unknown to US security forces the falls
(14:58):
that story is not true. I mean, factually it's not true.
Lee Harvey Oswell was not a lone nut. He was
a known quantity to the CIA, and not just to
random people in the CIA, but to James Angleton, one
of the most powerful men in the agency. He was
the chief of counter Intelligence, and from nineteen fifty nine
(15:19):
November nineteen fifty nine to ninth November nineteen sixty three,
she was keeping track on new Orleans favorite son, the
very obscure but seemed to be very famous Lee Harvey Oswell,
the top man in the CIA, was monitoring the president's
alleged assassin for four years. When November twenty first, when
(15:40):
President when President Kennedy leaves for Dallas, James Angleton office
is in possession of a one hundred and eighty plus
page dossier on Oswald. That fact, and it is a fact.
I have the file and we'll show it to any
reporter who is interested. That fact means that, you know,
the story of the assassination of this guy came out
(16:02):
of nowhere and killed the president. It's just not true.
A guy very well known to the top of the
CIA killed the president. If that's the story, okay, then
let's get to the bottom of that, because that's not
the story that we've been told since nineteen This.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Isn't a lunatic, a lone actor.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, he was a contract agent for the CIA.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Well, I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
No, no, no, no, no, no no no. I do
not say the Harvey Oyswell was a contract.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
But I do.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, yeah, but we don't.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Okay, Well, I know of no evidence neither to share it.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Well, no, but here's here's the thing. There's a lot,
there's a lot of things that don't add up, and
that's when we talk about.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
But there's there's so there's so much fire. The evidence
is preponderant. It's all over the place, and you know
with all that smoke, something's got to be going well.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
And that that is factual, That there's a lot more
to the story than people would have You know that
this is not a case of alone lunatic. It is
a much more difficult thing. We've got to be very
careful when when I when I give these tours, I
like to say I can only speak of things of
people that I know, in facts and documents that I've seen.
(17:08):
And so it's always one of the just because people
have said something or it seems like it might be
that way, we have to be careful.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Having said that, Christ for the House Select Committee on Assassinations,
every bit is August a body of people. As the
Warrant Commission declared that Oswald was not the loan gunment
and it was a conspiracy. In their conclusions they did
a thorough investigation on the Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Okay, here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
As an impressional record.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Well, and I know that they're a congressmen who said
that as a congressional committee. IVEN know four congressmen who
made that asert as a congressional committee. I have seen that, Jeff,
have you seen that before? I'm curious. I yesinations, just
look at But.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
The House Select Committee on assassinations did conclude that there
had been a conspiracy and said that they couldn't identify
the perpetraders that information. Okay, that's very important. But we
now have all of the records that the House Select
Committee had, so we're in a position to say much
more than they were. For example, the House Select Committee
didn't know that George Joannides was lying to them. They
(18:14):
only discovered that twenty years later.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Very good, Very good.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
So now now we got to get to the bottom
and get all that and get all of the records.
So what was you know? And I want to say that,
you know, I have a list of twelve or thirteen.
I mean, it's the list will grow. These are the
key records that we know are in the possession of
the government that should come out and that's really you know,
(18:40):
to me, this is really the acid test. We can
sit around and talk about what's your favorite theory and
all of that. The only thing that matters here is
do you want to get all of these documents are
not and that's the.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Past, and that's what we're hoping, you know. Yeah, and
Jefferson all that thought. There's an early of JFK Fax
that Org is joining Hi mckenry, Christopher Timore and the
Stition of Foundery Show on the eve of the release, hopefully,
we hope at the at the orders of President Trump,
of the remaining documents having to do with the JFFKA
assassination and also the Martin Luther King assassination. Folks, we're
(19:12):
sort of looking at what will be the missing links,
the parts that kind of indicate that the conspiracy was
much higher than people have ever thought. And yes, ladies
and gentlemen, that many of us have suspected. We'll be
back with more on this subject after these important messages.
Stay tuned more of the Founded Show here on w
R and O and WSL.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Right after this.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Folks, did you know that cowboys come from Louisiana? That's true.
The first cowboys were Cajuns. On the missing they were
saying that on the prairies and the ladies and gentleman
the nineteenth century, and the New Orleans Opera is actually
recognizing that. On April fourth and sixth, a new opera
Exlixir of Love, Donzetti's classic Elixir of Love will be
(19:57):
set in West the Western Louisiana Prayer, where the love
story of what is true in this great town will
come down to great Cajun's and ladies and gentlemen for
those that go to April fourth performance. Afterwards, Amanda Shaw
will be leading off a Cajun Fato Doo to close
out the evening April fourth and April sixth at the
(20:17):
Mahay Jackson Theater. More information at New Orleans Opera dot org.
That's New Orleans Opera dot o RG to get your
tickets to Alixir Love April fourth and sixth at the
Mahey Jackson Theater, New Orleans Opera dot org.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
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(20:52):
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(21:14):
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Speaker 3 (21:29):
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Speaker 2 (22:09):
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Speaker 3 (22:19):
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Speaker 2 (22:25):
Well, folks, you're listening to the Founders Show, and I
want you to know we're the number one rated weekend
show on wrn O. That's one of the top talk
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(22:48):
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(23:11):
interests are. And you can also get us on our website,
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thank you very much. It's Chaplin, Hi mcgenry.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Christopher's Ed Moore and we're joined by one of the
leading scholars of JFK assassination facts figures documentation. He is
a brilliant and former Washington Post writer and editor. He's
an author of multiple books and I had the privilege
of meeting him here in New Orleans as he was
sort of trashing the trail of where Lee Harvey Oswald
(23:42):
was passing out the pamphlets, clay Shaw was walking, and
all of the different elements in the thirty days before
Kennedy and Jefferson Morley, we got so much more to
talk about.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Go ahead of One thing I'm observing just getting to
know you, Jefferson, is that it seems like you deal
strictly with all of the facts. You have to have
documented evidence, and that's great. I appreciate shape that very much.
Yet you've done a very thorough job on this. So
I value your information and insights on this, and I
have some interesting things to talk with you about if
we have time. If not, we'll do it off the air.
About what I know personally about Lee Harvan. Remember, I
(24:14):
grew up in this city when all this was happening.
I knew clay Show, I knew Irvin Times, I knew
I had contexts to Oswald, and I go on and on.
It's a long story. So I have a whole lot
of information about it. But you're bringing out the official records,
which is very important. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Go ahead. So you know, Christopher, your trip, your tour
of New Orleans and some of the sites associated with
the JFA story really bought alive to me. You know,
the immediacy of the story and and and how it
was setting where it took place. So while I'm very
familiar with these events, to actually see them and have
(24:55):
you explain the characters and the culture of New Orleans,
that really helps understand.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
And it is important because it is in New Orleans
that Oswald goes public with his support for the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee, a leftist organization that would have
been infiltrated by the CIA and FBI.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Many cases, and and and.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
And targeted for destruction, and and where his confrontations with
the Cuban Student Directorate, which which create his profile. One
important thing to understand is the whole story that Leharvy
Oswald was a pro castro, you know, assassin. That story,
(25:41):
all of the evidence that is used to advance that
story was generated by this CIA propaganda operation, the Cuban
Student Directorate Cold name am Spell, which was run by
this case officer George Joannides. So that's right at the
heart of the story. And that's why I say that
(26:03):
thing's the acid test for Trump's JFK files plan. If
we get this document, it's a serious plan. If we
don't get this document, it's not a serious plan. It's
that simple in my mind now. But that said, this
isn't like, this isn't make or break. You know, I'm
not looking for a smoking gun, right, that's a That's
why I say I don't like the cliche. JFK researchers
(26:25):
who I work with, we're looking at the fact pattern,
and so we're looking at what if we learned before,
what are the holes and what might we learn in
the future. And we're trying to put pieces together. So
we're not looking for a smoking gun. We're looking to
fill out the fact pattern. And so the fact pattern
to us is the fact pattern is that the official
story just isn't true. It's not true. It's not established,
(26:49):
it's not it's not it's not the.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Case, amen, that one guy who.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Is unknown to the CIA fired three shots that the
President's limits in two of you missed and that's the
whole of the story.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
And the magic bullet is the one that finally got them.
I mean, this is insane, Yeah, yeah, insane.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
So if that's not true, what did happen? And that's
what we're looking at. And so in my list of
important documents to come, which I fully expect we could
and should see soon, like within a month if there's
a serious disclosure process. Is not only about Joinees, but
(27:27):
also about other activities that were taking place in New Orleans.
And then we mentioned a couple of other items of
documents that are on my list. There was a CIA
project with the code name and World in nineteen sixty
three and sixty four, and there's three officers who were
associated with that program who also seem to have been
(27:49):
floating around watching knowledgeable about Oswald in New Orleans. And
those three officers are a man named Emilio Rodriguez who
is a very high regarded CIA penetration agent, Tony Schwarza
who was involved in assassination operations, and David Phillips, who
was the chief of Cuba operations in nineteen sixty three.
(28:12):
So these records about what Amerald was doing in Louisiana,
there was a CIA training military training camp there. Those
are an important part of what we could find out
about the story because you know, the CIA eyes on
Oswald in the summer of nineteen sixty three, there's a
(28:34):
lot of CIA's eyes on him, and we want to
know all of that story because that's the KEIVA understanding
how he was manipulated.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Jeff, So just give y'all a little Christopher.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
For those just Jordius Jefferson Morley is joining him Kenry
and Christopher Tidmore here in the Found show.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
My background all this as far as training goes, let's
say my background Trios Army Special Forces, So was Connor
intelligence agent for them, hold a TS SCI clearance. I've
had three combat tours and I've also worked for the
Defense Intelligence Agency as a GS thirteen, so I have
a pretty heavy background in intelligence operations either working how
(29:12):
the CIA works. We shared a safe house with them
in Afghanistan and three because SF that means Green Berets
Special for US Army Special Force, and the CIA came
out of the originally out of the same organization, the OSS,
So to this day we still work close together. But
you know what, we don't trust the CIA because we've
seen so many bad things they've done, like bringing downloading
(29:34):
tons of USAID supplies, food and medical equipment to the
terrorists down to Latin America. We have witnesses. I have
a good friend who ran over too many camps and
they were loaded with all this USA stuff. So we
don't trust the CIA and SF we got to work
with them. We don't feel safe with them.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
One of the points, Chef that I made when I
make of my tour is I said, first, remember how
geographically close Oswald was is to everything else that's going
on the Riley Food Company. Where who were who were
actually funding a lot of this operations? Hailbox's office for
the House on American Activities can be the CIA hail office,
all within about two or three blocks. Ed Butler discovers
(30:14):
Lee Harvey oswhile walking out of the Pickpit club with
doctor Auctionner, who's involved in this. I make that point,
but I also said, you know, there's one other thing
that's really important. Where was Lee Harvey Oswell passing out
these hands off Cuba in front of his uncle's bar
effectively about half a block away at Exchange Alley and
which was a front operation for the Marcello family, and
(30:35):
so also.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
The Trade Center Well, which was where clay Shaw's office, Well, yeah,
which is which is right? Every day he'd leave the
Riley Coffee walked across the street to visit Banister, a
retired CIA agent top level who is now working Uh,
I mean for the I'm sorry, it was retired at
f Big now working for the CIA every day he
was in his office. Well on multiple eyewitness accounts.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
We have eyewitness accounts, and we do we don't have
we actually don't have the fact that the papers I
agree with it actually happened to believe it. But it's
it's one of those things where we have to there's around.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
The record if they've ever interviewed any of those people,
but they would not, I.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Think, say something about the records. The records, it's unlikely
that there's anything about Guy Danis or that's going to
be released, at least in terms of it maybe interesting,
interesting what we understand the documents that are in possession
of the National Archives now.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
So I just wanted to say that.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Jefferson, so go ahead, because this is the release of
the Trump at President Trump's orders of these documents. It reads.
Is one thing that people frequently asked me this question,
and I always have to answer it and explain sort
of the history of New Orleans and what went on
in Latin America. They'll ask me the question, well, what's
(31:55):
the why keep it secret?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Now?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
After all these decades. Corlos Marcel died in nineteen ninety three,
all these things have gone on, and I basically have
to say to people, I said, look New Orleans. This
I always point out to them. A block and a
half from where we stand from the Raleigh Coffee Company
was United Fruits Office, Samson Murray. I said, this was
the center of overthrowing regimes in South America and Central
(32:17):
America for decades. And I said, and it didn't end
with the nineteen sixties. I said, some of the same
players that were involved I knew in the nineteen eighties
that were minor players in the sixties were major players
with the Caribbean Commission and the Nicaraguan contrast. And I
knew them as that was going on. And I said,
(32:40):
it continues to this day. It's not like it's an
elemental that the reason why a lot of documents were
being confidential is it didn't end, it didn't stop. It
still goes on. And I was wondering if you could
address that your long lones Cia.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
You know, one of the things that I took away
from your tour that that impressed me and I realized
it was true, was when you said, when you talked
about the trade New Orleans as a hub of for
Cuba trade, Cuba trade, trade with Havanah and Havana and
(33:16):
New Orleans were very big, and you pointed out even
bigger than the money that organized crime was making. And
I think that's a really important point. Was, Yes, we
all know the story that organized crime was very disturbed
that they'd been thrown out of Havana by the revolutionary
new government. But it wasn't just organized crime figures who
had been disrupted and dispossessed, right, It was major legitimate
(33:40):
economic interests. So you know, whether the organized crime had
influence on this situation, that's one question, but certainly major
economic trade interests that had lost, you know, a lot
of money when trade with Cuba was cut off and
the US imposed and embargo. You know, that's a big
factor in what people did. And that was something that
(34:03):
I took away from from your tour, really learned from it.
Moans as an economic hub of the Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, in the nineteen sixties. And this gets into Clay Shaw.
I mean people will often say, well, how did Clay
shop because the caricature that the JFK, you know, Oliver
Stone movie does doesn't really give him credit. I let
hi who actually did know him. I knew him secondhand
as I described him. Yeah, No, he was a friend
of my grandmother and so on and so forth. You
actually met him. But I think you'll agree with what
(34:31):
I'm about to say he was. He was a suave,
incredibly respected figure who cut across many different social and
economic grounds and organized the creation of the International Trademark
which became the World Trade Center.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
He started the first World Trade Center. News we had
the first one way before New York.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
And so the ultimate point of all of this is
who were the people he was working with. It was
it was the Bill Rileys, it was the Samson Murrays,
it was the economic councils, it was the consuls from
South America. It was the people. We remain in New
Orleans today still the Entropo for eighty percent of the
nation's coffee. We remain one of the major sugar importers
(35:10):
and exports, and so well. Coming out of Cuba alone,
literally you had a series of, for lack of a
better term, plantations. They were at this point industrial farming,
but when they were seized, they were properties of people
who lived in New Orleans. I know because six of
them were my great grandfathers. The Ultrella cigars that ended
(35:32):
up becoming If you ever had a coheba cigar, well,
I hope you enjoyed it. It's tobacco grown to my
family's lands. And the point being that I make to
people is you act like, oh, we couldn't have done this,
couldn't have overthrown. This was something that was fitting in
the New Orleans tradition, going back to Guatemala El Salvador.
This was nothing new and it was something that a
(35:53):
lot of these players were well accustomed and this was
just the next step on the process. And I really
appreciated Jeff that you Jefferson Morley's joining Hi McHenry and
Christopher ted More today on the Founder Show. He's the
editor of jfkfax dot Org from Washington Post, writer and
editor and author of many books. And the thing that
I really got was that you are an expert not
(36:15):
just in the documentation, but showing the links between one
document to another to another that creates this incredible pattern
that is kind of irrefutable, and it's something you have
spent I was talking with your wife, she said, she's
surprised you're not blind sometimes having read these documents as
closely as you do. But you really have It's it
(36:36):
for a journalist, people think. People have this impression that
we as journalist, you know, most of our life is
Woodward and Bernstein meeting with you know, deep throat in
a place. Now, I hate to tell you this, most
of his research in really dusty rooms with a lot
of seemingly useless paper, and talk about that of you, yeah,
poor lighting.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Well yeah, no, And but this this is how you
get down to the core of fact and to strip
away your own biases because we all have them. We
all have stuff we want to believe, and in the
JFK story, we're all prone to it and I'm prone
to it. So own by immersing yourself in it and
(37:21):
standing back and saying, let's keep the theories at bay
and figure out what are the logical consecutive events that
happen here, Who are the players? How do it unfold?
And because we've gotten because of the JFK Records Act
in the JFK Review Board in the nineteen nineties, we
have this much deeper historical record that was really we
(37:42):
didn't have before. It was pretty much controlled by gatekeepers
in the media and in the government, and nobody knew
for thirty years you had to take their word for it.
Now we can go back and see and we can
judge this story independently, and we see that if you
study the fact pattern really carefully, you see a story
that you know what was going on. We're getting closer
(38:04):
to understanding that something that makes more sense. So instead
of having a theory and taking the evidence and hanging
the evidence on our theory, let's look at the facts
and then take the pattern and see when the pattern
comes to us. Right, we don't take the theory and
impose it on the evidence. We take the evidence and
let it rise up to us. What is the pattern there?
(38:25):
What is the What are the facts telling us? Not
what am I telling the facts?
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Right?
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Because that's where most JFK conspiracy theories go wrong. People
say I'm going to I'm going to impose my theory
on the facts. It's too complicated. Event doesn't work that way,
and we're all your model.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
The facts have to build your model fact.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
We're all too prone to bias, and this is the
only way to get to get to get around it.
So so yeah, So I mean New Orleans as a
key part of the story where Oswald grows up Chris
Rher I was very interested in the story of Oswald's uncle,
a bookmaker. You know, so Oswald is you know, he's
(39:07):
he's got a street wise right because because he's grown
up in a mill u where you.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Know, New Orleans. Yeah, yeah, he also lived in New
York City and in Dallas. Well, but as a young
you know, teenager and all that.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
One of the things I point out on my tour
and I thought you kind of just is that b.
Harvey Oswald was a quarter rat, which is a kid
who grew up in the quarter who would have known
that passing out hands off Cuba pamphlets in front of
a mob bar was probably not the healthiest activity you
could have done.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Exactly the owner who you know, I think he did
that for protection, Chris Well, just for the same reason
he did a international trademark.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
He had protection there and so and I agree, Jeffson Mortley.
I'm going to pose a question to you that was
kind of the ultimate question that was posed by your audience.
You were kind of enough to have me, uh speak
on your podcast, and you had a wonderful audience of
people who culminated on the on the question that every
JFK researcher is afraid to answer, which is, what do
(40:12):
you really think happened? And I mean, yeah, and I was.
I was very careful about what I said in all
of this. So I'm going to ask you the same question,
the same at seat.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
Uh. You know, the official the evidence and does not
support the official theory. The president did not die because
a man unknown to the CIA, whose motives are unknown
to the world, fired three shots, two of which missed,
and killed the president.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
With a magic bullet, but the pristine magic bullet, by
the way, that's.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
What happened according to the totality of the events. So
what did happen? Well, if you look at the totality
of the evidence, I say the president was ambushed by
enemies in his own government who had the ability to
make this crime look like something else. In other words,
people skilled in covert action operations. Am I saying there
was a CIA conspiracy? I don't know. I mean that
(41:09):
it looks like it. It looks like people high in
the US government. But they could have been from the Pentagon.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
You have a very powerful motive here.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
It could have been it could have been a Pentagon
plan that was executed with c I a help. It
could have been a CIA plan that was executed with
Pentagon help. It could have been No, I don't think
the I don't think so. Uh but but anyway, so
that's what I think the evidence tells us. Now, who
(41:39):
were those enemies? There's people high in the CIA who
are you know, plausible suspects. But that's about all you
can say that. You know, you can't point a finger
and say that person is a conspirator in Kennedy's death.
Even George Joanese, a man who was very much involved
in the surveillance of Oswea, was he a conspirator in
Kennedy's death? I would say that I don't think the
(42:01):
evidence supports that. I think he was something more like
an accessory after the fact, right, somebody who knew what
had happened. He wasn't part of the crime, but he
knew of the crime. He had guilty knowledge. So that's
why we want to see these records because we can
answer these questions. And you know what, if Norley is
nuts right and there's nothing to this, then release the
(42:23):
records and prove it. You know, the CIA, you think,
if if what I'm saying is wrong, just made up
it's conspiracy theory. Another lunatic little man killed a big man.
Get over it, get lost, there's nothing here, see you later.
If that's true, then release so we can know them. Right.
(42:44):
But you know what, there's only one party in this
dispute that's afraid of full disclosure. And it's not me.
I'm not afraid of full disclosures. The CIA is afraid
of full disclosure. And to me, that tells you a lot.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Okay, but the way went withs so many things we said,
but real quickly Bogs from New Walls lived right near
where we are in fact, uh, and I knew him.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
The only one. He did not sign the warrant commission
and very conveniently died in a classic assassination operation. I
don't know that he was assassinated, but that's how. That's
one of the best ways we were trained to assassinate
people was in airplanes.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
I wish we had more time. I wish we were
time to address that.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I still thought about it.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
I wouldn't I trained.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
How did how did forty key witnesses all mysteriously disappear
doing the Garrison trial? We don't we during that one year?
How did they just all disappear.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
The questions that didn't they did know they died? No, no, no, no,
they didn't.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
People for the Garrison witnesses did not.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
They did not. They did not die.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
They did not.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
All right, but look the point to play we actually
that next time.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Jefferson Morley, we want people to actually go to your website.
It's jeffkfax dot org. And I know you updated almost dale.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
It's it's JFK facts dot sub stack dot com dot com.
If you go to JFK facts dot org, you will
eventually get there, but you're gonna have to do a
bunch of clicks get there.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I bet you're gonna have a treasure chest of information
when they finally release the file in a week or
two or whatever, it's going to be right.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
I mean that that's a big if. I don't know
when we will. I mean we might get we might
get a plan tomorrow, we might get some documents soon.
I don't think we're going to get the key documents soon.
I think we're going to see the forces that are
(44:42):
resistant disclosure. They're gonna they're going to and make themselves known,
and they're going to make their influence known. So are
they successful, you know, against the Trump people who are
trying to enforce the president's order. Will Trump make a
deal with them like he did last time? I assumption.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Yeah, let's find well jeff Jefferson Morlan when you see
the records, Gifson Morley, thank you so much for joining him. Mckenry,
Christal tidbore here at the Founder's Show. We really appreciate it.
Keep us updated. We'd love to have you back if
you can.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Thank you, Thank you, Jeffery good Bleestion, sir, great great information,
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
And we will be back folks after these important messages
with the Patriotic Hour right after this, folks. Tickets now
available to the New Orleans Operas production of Elixir of
Love seven thirty pm April fourth to thirty pm April six.
More information at New Orleans Opera dot orgy New Orleans
Opera dot org.
Speaker 7 (45:38):
Rescue, recovery, re engagement. These are not just words. These
are the action steps we at the New Orleans Mission
take to make a positive impact on the homeless problem
facing the.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Greater New Orleans area.
Speaker 7 (45:53):
We begin the rescue process by going out to the
community every day to bring food, pray, and share the
love of Jesus with the hopeless and hurting in our community.
Through the process of recovery, these individuals have the opportunity
to take time out, assess their life and begin to
make new decisions to live out their God given purpose.
(46:17):
After the healing process has begun and lives are back
on track, we walked each individual as they re engage
back into the community to be healthy, thriving and living
a life of purpose.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
So back and you're listening to the founders and this chaplain, Hi,
I makeenry. It's time for us to go into our
chaplain by bab patriotic moment. We just take a brief
moment to remind you of the biblical foundations of our country,
our Judeo Christian jurisprudence, and today, of all things, I'd
like to speak about President Kennedy, Old JFK. You know
that he had fought the deep State very aggressively in
his day. He called it the conspiracy. In fact, he
(46:58):
made a speech about it and America at American University
where he said that one of his conclusions was that
if without God we could never survive what was going
on at the time, that we needed God. Back in
America again. And you know, shortly before that he had
met with Billy Graham on the golf course, and Billy
Graham has a wonderful testimony that JFK had his epiphany
(47:18):
with the Lord Jesus right there on the golf course.
So it's very interesting to see how Kennedy knew that
God was the key to saving America. And if we
want to make America great again, we better go back
to what made America great in the beginning, and that
was God, as our finding father so repeatedly told us, folks,
we need to make God great again in America. But
(47:41):
it all starts with you. If God's not great with you,
you're not going to be able to make God great
in America again. Ever, you've got to be the key
player here. It's we the people, remember that. So how
can you do that? Well, you'll find out as we
now go into our chaplain bye. By gospel moment again,
I just take a brief moment to you how you
can know how to make God great you how you
(48:03):
can have the Lord Jesus Christ. And it kind of
goes like this. I'm gonna take you to first to
John chapter one, the Gospel of John and verse twelve,
where it says, but as many as received him, that
means the Lord Jesus. It means to receive Christ to
them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to those who believe on his name. Now, this
(48:26):
first chapter is about the how Jesus became a man
fully man, all the way, man, all the way God.
And in this passage he's called the word meaning the Bible.
It's a very powerful philosophical, kind of abstract message of
who Jesus really is and what the Bible is. And
that means when you're holding the Bible and you're holding Christ.
Now what I mean by that, it's not the paper,
(48:46):
it's not the inc and it's not the leather. It's
the message. It's the way that is in the book
that's Jesus. So what is that way? Well, the Bible
says it's a gospel. The script says a gospel is
the power of God and the salvage to who server
believeth And as I mentioned earlier, he said, as many
as received him to them gave he the power to
(49:06):
become the sons of God, even to those who believe
on his name. What does that mean, that's kind of
a little strange at least it always was for me
for many many years, and finally it came to me,
what is his name? His name is Yeseshua, or we
pronounce it Jesus. What does that mean? Well, in Hebrew,
that means God is salvation. So you see the moment
you come to that point in your life where you
(49:27):
know for certain you can't save yourself. That's called repentance,
and that only He can save you. You have just
become a child of God. God has just become great
in your life. That's how you can make God great
in your life. The scripture says, for I declariny of
the Gospel that Christ God for all of our sins.
According to scripture, that he was buried, and that he
(49:48):
rose from the dead to win for each and every
one of us that precious free gift of resurrection, ever
lasting life. To who server believeth Folks, if you've never
believed before, that's all you have to do is believe.
But it's a twofold belief. The first part is believe
you can't save yourself. That's called repentance. And the second
part is to believe that only He can that he did,
and that he will save you from a burning hell
(50:09):
and guarantee you everlasting life. If you've never done this before,
please do it now. Don't wait till it's too late,
like the old country preacher said, and like the Word
of God says. Now today is this day of salvation. Folks.
I hope you got this raight, and I hope you,
if you've never done this before, that you do it,
and you do it soon, because time's are wasting. Jesus
(50:31):
is coming back soon. And what I mean by that
is he's actually coming back to this earth. He's coming
back to this earth to create a perfect political world
which the world has never known. He's gonna rule the
entire world, and he's gonna do it with a rod
of iron, which means he's gonna the best police force
out there. Law enforcement will be the best, which means
criminals aren't gonna be committing crimes anymore. There's gonna be
(50:52):
no want, There's gonna be great prosperity, no illness when
Jesus comes back. But before that time, this great wonderful
times is gonna last for a thought and years, to
call the millennial millennium, It is going to be so
exciting and so wonderful to be on this earth at
that time. But folks, and I'll be there, even though
I be, I will have a resurrected body, I won't
be like you know, like I am now. I'll have
(51:13):
a resurrected body at that point. But there'll be plenty
of people. There's gonna be billions of people on the
earth during that time, and they're going to enjoy all
the blessings that God has always wanted to give us
over that thousand year period, folks. But before that time happens,
it's gonna get really bad around here. They're gonna be
wars and rumors of wars, conspiracies. Even the Bible even
(51:33):
calls it a conspiracy. There's gonna be international conspiracies working
for the complete destruction of this earth. And that Jesus
said if he delayed his coming, there'd be no flesh left.
That's how bad it's getting, folks, and gonna get only
worse as we cruise into the end of this thing. Now,
I know my beloved President Donald Trump is doing the
(51:54):
best he can to overcome all this evil that is
upon us. And he's already doing a remarkable job but
the problem is, sooner or later he will not be
allowed to keep doing all the great things he's doing
because God is going to let the human race have
what it wants, and that means they want a world
without God. And when God finally politely bows out, the
(52:16):
devil's going to take over, and folks, like Jesus said,
there'd be no flesh left. You know, when that prophecy
was made over two thousand years ago, do you realize
there was no way the whole world could be destroyed
at that time? It was impossible. It is impossible, kill everybody,
just impossible. It seems like an absurd prophecy. But folks,
can that happen?
Speaker 4 (52:33):
Now?
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Can it happen?
Speaker 7 (52:35):
Now?
Speaker 2 (52:35):
You know very well it can happen. Now we've got
nuclear weapons, We've got the most advanced weapons systems. All
we have to do is set off just maybe five
percent of all the nuclear weapons and that wipes out
the entire human race. Yes, it's possible for there to
be no flesh left on this earth. If you look
at the body counts in the Book of Revelation and
the other passages in the scripture, it's gonna end up
(52:56):
being with there're only gonna be somewhere between fifty to
one hundred million people left on this earth. When Jesus
finally comes back, fights a battle om again, kills all
the bad guys, throws Antichrist and the false Prophet straight
into the lake of fire, puts that the devil and
all devils, bounds them and chains and throws them in
the bottomless pit, so then he can finally recreate the
world for the beautiful world that it's going to be. Folks,
you want to be there for that, and you want
(53:16):
to be on the winning side. And the only way
you can do that is believe in Jesus. Believe that
he really did die for all your sins, was buried
and rose from the dead with child like faith. Faith
alone in Christ alone, folks. Not time for us to go?
As we close with the mont Saint Martin singing a
creole goodbye and God bless you all out?
Speaker 8 (53:34):
Does this have to be the end of the ND?
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Do I love you?
Speaker 8 (53:41):
In the pamal land, I can see across the million stars,
but I look at we can bols
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