Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the most wonderful time of.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The we think it's jingle belling and everyone telling.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
You be your good year.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's the most wonderful time.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Of the It's the havel heavy seas and of you
with those holiday greetings and gay happy meetings with friends.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Come to gold. It's the havel aby sees of all.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It'll be pleased for hosting marshmallows for toasting.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
And caroling out in the snow.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
They'll be scary go stories, tales of the gorys Christmases
long long ago.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
It's the most wonderful time, are they.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
There will be much missile towing and hearts will be
glowing with loved one's.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's the most wonderful time.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Holy and how can you not beat an entrance to
Christmas time, folks with the victory bells. You're listening to
the Founder's Show here on wr and O ninety nine
to five FM and WSLA fifteen sixty AM as always
on Christopher Tidmore.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
And Javon Haim Agenry. He has been Gary Bubba of
the Republic and a ho ho, ho ho ho for
this wonderful time on Christmas. And we got a great show.
This is a Christmas Show. We're not going to politics today, folks.
We're not swimming swimming in that septic tank. We're gonna
enjoy the Christmas Chair. And what a starter, What magnificent
tunes and sounds we just heard from the Victory Bells.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
But we have to enter into the great Christmas plug,
a wonderful tradition going in the Victory Bells. Ladies and gentlemen,
of course, perform at BB's stage or cantina at the
National World War Team Museum. And I have to say
I'm a regular inhabitant, basically pest of these ladies. You would, Mandy,
why don't you start off?
Speaker 6 (02:11):
But most people don't know is that all of the
Christmas favorites that you're hearing on the radio, most of
them were written in the nineteen forties.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Most people think of the World War Two Museum and
they think of the history and what brings, and they
don't realize what a performance jewel we have in the
stage door cantina. Aren't in the three of you from
these Victory bells?
Speaker 5 (02:28):
That's right, you just heard it, folks. Here on the
Founders Show, go to the World War Two Museum and
it's one of the top rated museums. I believe the
number three rated museum in America. But don't miss the entertainment.
It will bring you back to that period when your
fathers or your grandfather and grandmothers were Rosie the Riveter
or hitting the beaches at Normandy or whatever. It'll bring
(02:51):
you back to that time to sit in these shows
and hear these beautiful women sing and the fine men
that also sing. So listen now, y'all are listening to
the founder, so the voice of the founding fathers. And
again this Chapana mcgnry. You're Chaplain Baba of the Republic.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Of course, Christopher Timer. Here we come to you live
of course on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and WSLA fifteen
sixty am from eight to nine am and on Sunday
mornings our main airing in ninety nine to five WRO
And this is of course our new Breakfast with the
arts segment. But it's never new that we had the
victory bells here. We've we've dragged them into studio year
after year after year to the point where I'm sure
they're sick of it. But and just as a plug
(03:29):
coming up after the victory bells, a little later in
the show, John McGill, a former chief archivist of the
Historic New Orleans Collection and expert the author of the
book Christmas in New Orleans, is coming in to talk
about how long the Christmas season could go. But before
we get to that, we have to get to this.
I believe, ladies, it's time to take a sleigh ride.
If that works for you. All right, ladies and gentlemen,
(03:50):
a sleigh ride here in the Founder's show.
Speaker 7 (03:53):
Just see the.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Same ratings to.
Speaker 8 (03:57):
Come on, say the boy right together with you, I'll
say the story smalling and friends are calling you. Come on,
it's lovely by the boys you right together with you.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Giddy up, giddy up, giddy up, let's go.
Speaker 9 (04:15):
Let's look at the show. We are running in a
wonder leader snow. Giddy up, giddie up, getting up, biskir,
just holding your hand. We're rinning out along with the
song of a winter Fai.
Speaker 10 (04:29):
That aren't chick saying my son, Rosie and comfy cousy
are we We're snuggled up together like birds of a
feather would be. Let's take the bear force and sing
of course or too.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Come on, it's lovely, run together with you.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
That was fabulous. I want you to know something. I
sang that song in Afghanistan twenty ten. I'd just been
to Counter Sertaincy Academy with my Crystal's Connor Certainty Academy,
and I met some other guys there start a major
colonel and a major and we were all singers, and.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
We did this for the troops, and that leads us
sort of to going into our third song. And I
think we close here in the Founder's Show, not for
the whole show, but for the segment with the victory
bells from the stage door canteen who so graciously agreed
to come in. It's time for a little center. Baby,
you are listening to the Founder Show.
Speaker 11 (05:23):
Santa Baby, just stay the sable under the tree for me.
Been a awful good girls, Santa Baby, So hurry down
the chimney to night, Santa Baby a fifty four CONVERBLESO label.
(05:45):
I'll wait up for you, Dear Santa Baby, So hid
down the chimney to night.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Think of all the five miss think of.
Speaker 11 (05:58):
All the fells I haven't kissed.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Next year, I could be just as good if you
check off.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
My Christmas list, Santa Baby. I want a yard and
really that's not alone.
Speaker 11 (06:18):
Been an angel all year, Santa Baby, So hurry down
my chimney, ton.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Santa Handy, one little thing.
Speaker 11 (06:31):
I really need the date to a platinum mine, Santa Honey.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So have down my chimney to.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Night, Santa Cuti, and fill my starting with the due
plagues and checks. Sign your ex on a line, Santa Cuti,
and hurry down the chimney to night. Come and trim
(07:01):
my Christmas tree with some decorations but simphonies.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I really do believe in you. That's see. You believe
in me.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Sands a baby for goods to mention one little thing, hurray,
We don't mean on the phone, Sands a Baby, So
hurry is on the ymney.
Speaker 11 (07:30):
Too, Lie hurries on the chimney toon night.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Hurry soon night, ladies and gentlemen. The victory bells there
at the National World War Two Museum stage door canteen.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
What were those kind of voices? And I was saying,
I'd be blessing on.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It, Harry, Christmas and ladies and gentlemen. Back after this
brief commercial break with John Miguel, the author of the
book Christmas in New Orleans, to talk about some creole
Christmas traditions here in the Crescent City.
Speaker 12 (08:07):
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And you get to put your perfect imprint on that
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Speaker 5 (08:46):
Hey, folks, this is Trappenheim McHenry and I'm here to
tell you about our ministry, LAMB Ministries. We're an inner
city ministry with an inner city formula and focus for
inner city folks.
Speaker 12 (08:57):
And with New Year's coming up, folks, it is a
perfect time to buy flower arrangement for someone you love
and plan to kiss at midnight. That of course, can
be done at Villari's Florist at one eight hundred VI
L L E E or villariesflorest dot com for all
of your floral needs and tell them you heard it
here in The Founder Show.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
And welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. You're listening to the
Christmas edition of The Founder's Show here in News Talk
ninety nine to five WRN O and WSLA fifteen sixty
A m as always here on the program. I'm Christopher
Tidmore and Japlin Hi mcginry, and this is the Founder's Show,
the Voice so the Founding Fathers.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
And again this is your Chaplin II mcenry. You're Biggar
about all the Republican We've got a very exciting Christmas
show today, as you've already heard some of it. Some
of the greatest music I don't like in America today
the Victory Bells over at the World Wars Museum. They
came in the studio today and gave us a fabulous
Christmas performance.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
You might find you might find out before the end
of the show.
Speaker 13 (09:54):
High that Christmas today is kind of a more solemn festival,
believe it or not. Then it actually was in the
nineteenth century in New Orleans and even earlier. And to
explain that truth to us is the man who's forgotten
more about Christmas in New Orleans than anyone of does.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
He with Peggy scott Land Board co wrote the definitive book,
which is of course entitled Christmas in New Orleans. John McGill,
former chief artivist for the Historic New Orleans Collection, is
joining us here in the studio. And John, is Christmas
today more solemn than it was in the past in
New Orleans?
Speaker 14 (10:29):
It really is. You know, you go back to the
nineteenth century, Christmas was pretty wild and pretty raucous in
New Orleans. It would generally start right on Christmas Eve,
and people sometimes got paid on that day and they
would hit the street shopping and stores would stay open
on Christmas Eve until Christmas morning, three in the morning,
three or four in the morning. Then they close and
(10:49):
reopen at about maybe eight the next morning on Christmas morning.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Say, it was very busy, very busy.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Sand it didn't exist.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
But what happened, Papa Noel, what happened?
Speaker 4 (10:59):
He didn't exist. Let John tell you know.
Speaker 14 (11:03):
What.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
And while we were doing all that down here in
New England they outlawed.
Speaker 14 (11:08):
Christmas was a law in New England. The Puritans outlawed
it because they felt Christmas in England and Scotland had
become so wild and so rocked, so there was nothing
what one great, big, huge party that started on Christmas
even went right through Twelfth Night. The Puritans banded, and
in England Oliver Cromwell banded it was against the law
to even make a plump pudding, but he'd mince meat pie.
(11:31):
In Scotland it was banned for many years, and in
New England it just followed suit. And in New England
what turned into the holiday by the nineteenth century was
more Thanksgiving in New Year's and you didn't start seeing
Christmas making it comeback until around the middle nineteenth century,
after Christmas had sort of been evolving into a family
period of time, and you know, little women brought up,
(11:53):
you know, it took place. I think in Maine has
a Christmas theme to it that wasn't until about eighteen
sixty something when that was written. Prior to that, though,
Christmas was really looked down upon because for those who
are religious felt that it had become so rough and
so rowdy and so raucous that it was basically this
service to the birth of Christ. It was very irreligious.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Now we talk about Santa Claus and Father Christmas as
if they're the same person, but they're not, not really.
Speaker 14 (12:21):
Well, the history of Santa Claus goes back, of course,
a long way. It really starts with Saint Nicholas, who
was a bishop of Amyra, and he supposedly, you know,
he looked after children. There was a one story about
him finding out about three girls whose father had sold
them into some sort of servitude, and in order to
(12:43):
get them released, he gave them each one a bag
of gold which they could use as a dowry. And
you know they were young women, so you know this
was something looking after young people. Another tale tells of
them giving money to children in presents to children, and
by the twelve hundreds he was around in the three
hundreds by the twelve By the twelve hundreds he was
(13:04):
regarded as a patron saint of children. And on November
the sixth, excuse me, December the sixth, he would give
out presents.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Saint Nicholas.
Speaker 14 (13:15):
The first time you find Saint Nicholas giving toys out
on December the twenty night of December twenty four to
twenty fifth was in Clement Moore's a Visit from Saint Nicholas,
which we all call it Night Before Christmas. But that's
when Santa Claus was really beginning to make in appearance.
Father Christmas, who is the English Father Christmas, actually looks
after partiers. He was he would protect them from getting
(13:39):
too drunk, protect them from partying too much. It was
not a he was not a children's guy at all.
He was someone who looked after adults in their partying.
Santa Claus came along in the eighteen twenties in the
United States, and he's pretty much all American from the beginning.
And he was created by and the children to listen
(14:00):
to this. He was created by the Knickerbocker Club in
New York. Knickerbocker was based on a book by Washington
Irving called The Knickerbocker History of New York. And they
were trying to regenerate Christmas to make it more of
a family festival. And you know, this was the Romantic
Age too, you know, people looking back to sort of
the German roots of Christmas, where Christmas had remained very
(14:22):
very popular for a long time. But they came up
with an idea of this gift giver named Santa Claus.
The name was based on Center Claus, and they said
that well, because New York was once a Dutch colony, well,
Center Claus would have been traditioned. Well, no, not really,
because Center Claus came along a little bit later. He
was a Dutch Protestant version of Saint Nicholas who continued
(14:44):
to deliver giasts and today continues to deliver gifts to
Dutch children. On December the sixth, but Santa Claus kind
of coincided with a visit from Saint Nicholas Clement Moore's book.
Clement Moore was also a member of the Knickerbocker Club,
and he was the one who turned Santa into a
little elf riding a sleigh. All those reindeer names Donner
(15:06):
and Donder I think it's the actual name Donder, and
Blitzen and so on and so forth, they were given
by Clement Moore. Santa Claus became a huge hit overnight
in York can spread to the rest of the country
very quickly, and then as Santa Claus became popular here,
he kind of jumped back across the Atlantic and Father
Christmas evolved more and more into a Santa Claus. The
(15:28):
French did not historically have a Santa Claus or a
Pair Noel or a Papa Noel, it was believed, and
this was true in New Orleans as well. The gifts
given Christmas Eve were given by the Baby Jesus. And
you know, the Baby Jesus did not give big gift.
You would usually get something and this isn't getting like
an orange or a comb or something, you know, to
(15:49):
something befitting the christ shot to give. The big Christmas
gifts amongst French would be given out either on New
Year's Day or Twelfth Night, but New Year's Day became the.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Joining us here in studio is John mcguil. He's former
archivist of the Historic New Orleans Collection. He's the author
of many books, but his the one we bring him
here today is is most Beloved to Christmas in New Orleans,
which he wrote with co wrote with Peggy Scott.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
The Board and he's currently the historian for the Round
Table Club, so he's still active in his historical pursuits.
He gave us a great lecture on this just the
other night. And John, I have a couple of points
to make questions.
Speaker 15 (16:25):
You all hear Santa Claus, Klaus Klaus in Santa Klaus,
and that comes from the centerve means saints, and then
Klaus is where they took an I off of Nicholas.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
All you end up with is Claus. And that's why
it's Santa Claus. It could be Santa Nicholaws, but it's
Santa Claus. And anyway, one of the I understanding. He
was also a patron saint of bankers. Can you help
us understand that? And I love the three balls on
pawn shops.
Speaker 14 (16:56):
Oh well, Saint Nicholas was the patron saint of a
lot of things, but he became then saint of bankers.
And I think I mentioned earlier that he when he
got those three girls released from their servitude, he gave
them three bags of gold each one for a dowry.
And that's where the three balls came from. Supposed supposedly,
and much of that based on legend, But bankers and
(17:16):
money lenders would use the three balls, and of course
as time went on, pawnbrokers would use the three balls
representing that. But also he was a patron saint of
mariners in the Mediterranean, he's regarded as a patron saint.
And also, you know when Scandinavia became began Christianizing, the Viking,
shall we say, took on, took him on as their
(17:38):
patron saint.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Well, they were great mariners, yes, and so that's that's
how it ended up in the northern regions of Europe.
Fascinating and then they turned him into a Norseman type
with the fur and all that and the reindeer. But
he was a Greek saint. And by the way, a
lot of people don't know this. He was a bishop,
and he was a brilliant theologian, and he gave one
of the greatest defenses for the the Hippostatic Union of
(18:01):
Christ at the Consul of Montcea with Constantine presiding, and
it was one of the swaying arguments that saved the
Church from the Armenian heresy at the time. So he
was a fascinating fella. He was born to great wealth.
He ended up giving all of his money away in
his lifetime, helping the poor and looking after kids.
Speaker 14 (18:23):
He's a multitasker.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
He was Renaissance man.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Speaking of multitasking, John micguil Let's bring it back towards
New Orleans and the evolution of Christmas. But I have
to say I have a vested interest in this topic.
What is mister Bingle, Mister Bengal.
Speaker 14 (18:40):
Mister Bengal is in reality, he's actually an advertising tool,
but he's very beloved. He's become an iconic part of
Christmas in New Orleans. And mister Bingle, he's a baby boomer.
He was born in nineteen forty seven. And there was
a man named Emil Ellon who worked as a He
was basically a decorator and a buyer from Maxon Blanche,
(19:01):
which was whether it's Carlton Hotel is today on Canal Street,
a big department store, and he went on a business
trip to New York to get some ideas for advertised
Excuse me, he didn't go to New York, went to Chicago.
He had some business ideas for Mason Blanche. And when
he was there he went to Marshall Fields which is
now Macy's on State Street and discovered this character named
(19:22):
Uncle Missletoe. And Missletoe was sort of a very dickensie
and you know, a portly fellow, and he would wear
Missletoe and he's hat and such, and there would be
window displays with him. But then he found another one
at Montgomery Ward and Monkey Ward as people called it
back in the forties and fifties, and Rudolph the Red
Nose reindeer, who was about to become a really big hit. Well,
(19:45):
he thought these were, you know, wonderful ideas. So he
was going to come back to New Orleans and devise
something for Mason blansh and Be and he dreamed up
what he called a snow doll. And this was a
snow man with legs and arms, and you know, a
movable snowman. And he wore an ice cream cone hat
and had a bow, and wore some missile toe. And
(20:07):
I think his wings were holly or something.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
No, I like his wings were missiletoe. His wings were missiletoe.
I know this from experience having worn that.
Speaker 14 (20:16):
Okay, yeah, so the missiletoe is for the wings. And
they had a contest in the store to come up
with what would be the name of this snow doll,
and the winner was mister Bingle. And it worked very
well because apparently mister Bingle was a novel at Christmas
novel in nineteen fifteen, but also the initials are the
(20:37):
same as Maison Blanche mb so it fits very very well,
and a jingle was made up in that. But there
were there was a puppeteer on Bourbon Street and his
name was Oscar Eisentraut and it was a strip tease
show of marionettes and marionettes. Of course, for people wo
don't know, a puppet is a hand puppet that you
put on your hand. Marionettes are held up by strings.
(20:59):
And he was very very he was considered a very
fine marionettast I guess that's the word. But he also
had two assistants as well, and they started setting mister
Bingle up in one of the big show windows on
Canal Street, and people just really, you know, piled in
to see this, you know, sort of like Santa Claus
became an instant success nationally in the eighteen twenties and thirties, well,
(21:20):
mister Bingle became a big success in New Orleans in
the nineteen forties.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
And he was still around because I saw him last week.
He is still sat in all of his icy, snowy glory.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I I have to confess I
became a Snowman last week pictures. You know, it was
really funny.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
He was a fun happy little guy. You couldn't help the.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Love God well, and it was a part of New
Orleans tradition. Yeah, we had pictures of Santa Claus. But
pretty much anyone who is older than I, you knows
my age and older, our major Christmas memory besides Christmas Morning,
is going down to Canal Street and getting pictures with
mister Bingle. And so, you know, we did this and
(21:59):
the kids loved it, but they basically had no idea
what who this really scary snowman was. It's and even
with mister Bingle remaining in celebration the Oaks the original
one and part of it, it's not as much as
it's a part of the consciousness that it was for anyone.
Speaker 14 (22:16):
Bingle he was. He was cuddly. Department stores across the
country had these, of course, you know, Montgomery Ward had
Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer who went on to international thing.
I was brought up in the Bay Area, and the
White House had a character named Happy Holly.
Speaker 16 (22:31):
Uh.
Speaker 14 (22:31):
You know, Holly isn't very cuddly, but you know, yes,
but while a snowman could be kind of cold. But
you know, mister Bingle cuddly.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
And there was a song written for mister Bingle, was there.
Speaker 14 (22:43):
Not, Yes, it's called Here comes mister Bingle. A terrible voice,
but we'll go ahead and see you want to be.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
A victory belly.
Speaker 14 (22:52):
Okay, here goes.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Voice.
Speaker 14 (22:57):
I was singing a regular voice. I do the okay, and.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
I do this if I can do that, Here comes
mister Bingle.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Jingle jingle, jangle jingle.
Speaker 14 (23:08):
Here comes mister Bingle with another message from Chris Kringle.
Time to launcher Christmas. Christmas season. Maison Blanche makes Christmas please,
and gifts for you, gifts galore for you to see
each a gym from MB.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
So of course you know he was an advertiser, and
it's it's it's funny because he's so embraced as this
key part of New Orleans history. But then again, so
is Mason Blanche. Yeah, which is lost now, so it is.
Speaker 14 (23:34):
But you know, I can walk in the Rith Carlton
Hotel today and still walk around and there say, this
doesn't feel like a hotel. This felt like she used
to be a hotel. But it feels like a department store.
You know, the ceilings are kind of low in places
like Okay, shoes used to be over here. Here, record
department was up here. You need the escalators and you
can feel mister Bingle in the air well. You can
see him out at the you know, celebration the.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Oh and it's actually still one of the most popular
things to go get a picture taken with mister Bingle.
And mister Bingle are still made and soul still.
Speaker 14 (24:01):
Made and sold. He was badly injured in you know,
the flooding from Katrina, but they got him up and
you know, send him off to the hospital and got
him fixed up.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
So well, I mean we went back in a date
phrase put the snow together.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Well, we think about New Orleans, of course, you know
in recent decades with mister Bingle. But Christmas in New
Orleans and particularly the Creole Christmases that began, have a
much older tradition. But they were a very abbreviated holiday,
weren't they. It's not what we think of today, it.
Speaker 14 (24:30):
Really was because historically the parameters of Christmas were Christmas
Eve to twelfth Night, which is you know, twelfth night
is when the magi went to Bethlehem and to see
the Christ Child. And also the French tended to divide
the secular and the spiritual very much. In two Christmas
(24:52):
was regarded as a very religious day. It was the
birth of Christ. People would fast during Christmas Eve, they
would go to midnight Mass, which usually beginning in about
eleven the French. Yes, And as the nineteenth century wore on,
as Christmas itself became more and more of a family gathering,
(25:15):
entire families would go out and numbers of Catholic churches
in New Orleans would have midnight masses and it was
really the thing to do. It was the place to go.
And also these masses were also music recitals as well.
It could go well into the night, and these would
even be reviewed in the newspaper. As you know, which
(25:36):
sure the cathedral or which church would have provided the
finest musical musical entertainment. I suppose you could say. Then
the family would go home together where they would have
a revenon. The Christmas revean was very small and revenon
does not have to be Christmas. I've got to get
into the definition that does not have to be Christmas.
(25:56):
You can go to the opera, you can go to
a movie. And if you go to the French market
and have coffee and donuts afterwards, that's a revenon. The
word means reawakening or awakening. After you go somewhere, you
want to go somewhere and have a light meal. The
Christmas reveant was very small. About the grandest thing that
would be served would be griods and grits, different types
(26:19):
of breads, fruits. There was not a lot of drinking.
Probably the most that anyone would consume would be eggnog.
Then as soon as Christmas was well Christmas Day, of
course children would go and visit their grandparents and their
aunts and their uncles. And the gifts they received were
of course very small at that time because as I
said earlier, the baby Jesus was the gift giver at
(26:42):
that time, and so you'd have a small gift. But
the children dress up go visit their families. Then they
would go to church again, and often they would go
visit numerous churches, because the Crash was very much a
part of each Catholic church, and.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
The so Holloids almost seems like the tradition that exists
to day of going to different Saint Joseph Alders. So
you know you have church to church.
Speaker 14 (27:04):
Yes, and you go from and the churches would be
I must say mobbed because these crash were so lavish
in many cases that not just Catholics but Protestants, non
Christians would go and visit them. Masses would be conducted
all day long in the churches and they were a
magnificent There were more music recitals. But once Christmas ended,
(27:28):
then you would start getting to sort of what we
regard as the secular side of Christmas. This is when
the Christmas gifts would be considered and nobody brought the gifts.
You know in the earlier days they came from mom
on pop on, grand Mama and so on. They weren't
given by a particular gift giver. And stores would advertise
(27:49):
in New Orleans and gifts were available for both Christmas
and New Year's. New Year's Day for the Creoles was
the big gift giving day. That's when you got the fancy,
expensive presence. That's when you had a big revel which
would be near the end of the day. That's when
the roast turkey would come out.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
That's the that's.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
The big Christmas party that we think of not just
immediate family, but friends and extended relationship.
Speaker 5 (28:15):
One of the largest revenants. And this is even before
the Marti Gras season, before the Twelfth Night begins. In
Marti girl sitty, that's the night the Three Kings came
and that ends, so the twelve days of Christmas and
then Marti Gras begins and also trim. But wait, the
big Marti Grass celebrate, I mean the big New Year's
Eve celebration that happened back in the eighteen seventies was
(28:37):
when Momas paraded and had their Big Ball, which was
six days before Marty Gral started. So it was that
big of a thing to have a big blowout on
New Year's Day.
Speaker 14 (28:45):
And you also had the Twelfth Night revelers on Twelfth Night,
which started in eighteen six days later in eighteen seventy.
So but even then, even in the nineteenth century, Twelfth
Night was still regarded not so much as the beginning
of Marti Gras, but as the end of Christmas.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
City that was almost becoming even by the late nineteenth
century unique to New Orleans.
Speaker 14 (29:03):
Was it in fact that in the United States it
was considered very unique to New Orleans because when Twelfth
Night Revelers started in eighteen seventy. They actually said this
was a tradition that had not come to the United
States from Europe. Twelfth Night was a pretty rowdy celebration too,
and it had even gone out of favor in France
because it had become so rowdy, but New Orleans sort
of held on to it. And then when the Twelfth
(29:24):
Night Revelers started, one of the newspapers said that this
was bringing back an old tradition that you know, celebrating
the visitation of the magi, and not only ending the
Christmas season, but also beginning a new Carnival season. So
by this time we were already beginning to look at
Twelfth Night ushering in Marti Gras, although as late as
(29:47):
nineteen oh five, I think it was nineteen oh five
there was an article in the Daily Piao about what
a Twelfth Night party should be like, and it included
a big cake and whoever got the bean from the
cake would be the king of that party, and then
of course they would have to buy the next cake,
so you're getting into, you know, the king cake. But
they the cake was to have been decorated in red
(30:09):
and green like Christmas. The room decorated in red and green,
and people were supposed to start taking the Christmas decorations down,
so you were ending Christmas to begin Carnival. But you know,
the first invitation of Twelfth Night Revelers looks like a
Christmas card.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
John McGill, the author of the book Christmas in New Orleans,
is joining us for the hour here after coming off
a wonderful rendition from the Victory of Bells. If you
missed any part of the show, I want to hear
the whole thing. You can always go to the on
demand section of WRNO dot com, look for the Founder's
Show and look for this sweek show. It is posted
at wr dot com. Also, you can always check us
out at our website, The Foundershow dot net. The foundershow
(30:47):
dot net. You're listening to it. We come on live
every Monday, Wednesday and Friday from eight to nine am
in Morning Drive and then on Sunday mornings from eight
to nine am on WR nine ninety five FM.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
And John.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
When it comes down to this, the idea of the
creole Christmas comes through, is that kind of a nineteenth
century construct?
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Really?
Speaker 4 (31:10):
I mean, we look at it and I have to
give a plug for the Friends of the Cabildo, which
does a wonderful creole Christmas basically the week adapt Christmas,
and I heard encourage you to find out more by
going online looking for Friends of the Cabildo. But we
act like it's an early you know, colonial tradition. It's not.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Oh the way, also, Laura Plantation has a great career Christmas.
Speaker 14 (31:31):
Yeah, it's really not an early Colonial it's very nineteenth century,
very Victorian, very bourgeois, very middle class. Also at a
time when children were becoming more revered in a family.
You can go back to the seventeenth and eighteenth century,
children were just considered part of the family and that
was about it. But by the time you got into
the nineteenth century, children were because, you know, partly because
(31:53):
of the age of Romanticism and for want of a
better term, you know, Victorian attitudes towards the ideal child,
who the idea lifestyle. Children becoming more and more a
part of Christmas, and of course it seems logical since
it celebrates the birth of a baby, children should be
a very important part of it. But that's when you
started seeing more and more gift giving for children, children
being included as part of the holiday spirit, as part
(32:16):
of the Christmas spirit as well, and gifts for children,
and the rise of what we consider so much a
part of Christmas today, the Christmas Tree, which really wasn't
a part of life outside of Germany until the nineteenth century.
Christmas carols. Of course, there are old Christmas carols and
(32:37):
old Christmas songs that go back a long way, but
surprisingly many of them had been lost by the early
nineteenth century and sort of musicologists, archaeology, musicologists were going
out and finding them in Britain, they were finding them
in places like West England and Wales. Even the French
were going out.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
You have had again the Celtic fringe. Save civilization.
Speaker 14 (32:59):
It did sayation, yes, and you know in France to
most people don't realize this. During the French Revolutionary period,
organized religion was frowned upon. Christmas was sort of put
on the back burner, so.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
They tried to completely destroy religion. Yeah, they created a
new religion. It was the state, and their goddess was
a prostitute that they brought in a Notre Dame cathedral
to worship. That was their concept, the only concept of
religion they would allow. If you challenge that you lost
your head.
Speaker 14 (33:29):
Yeah, and there there was no Paranoel. There was no
Papa Noel. Paranoel and Papa Noel came along later in
the nineteenth century, and guess who they were based on?
Good old American Santa Claus. You know, Saint Nicholas started
in Europe, the whole idea that jumped the Atlantic eventually,
and then in New York Santa Claus came out, and
then the idea of Santa Claus began spreading around the world.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
And you know, it's interesting even to this generation it
spread because when I was a little boy and a
good be in England, it was still was a little
bit of Father Christmas, but you started seeing Santa Claus
more and more. Now no one uses Father Christmas in Britain.
Speaker 17 (34:06):
I mean it's just it's literally it's Santa Claus, the
al starter.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
What's in the whole?
Speaker 14 (34:10):
Yeah, okay, you.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
To answer the question, but Father Christmas, because I've always
been fascinating with this. In the Christmas carol about Dickens,
when you have the fella of Christmas Past, he always
made me think of Father Christmas. Was that who he
really represents?
Speaker 14 (34:24):
I think that's what he was trying to represent, well,
at least the artist was trying to represent. It was
around that time that the gift giving for children was
becoming more and more a part of Europe as well,
not just the United States. And Father Christmas was certainly
the logical person to evolve into into the gift giver.
(34:46):
But yeah, you're correct when you say that Father Christmas
has been pretty much replaced. My mother was a New
Zealander and Father christ she born in nineteen nineteen and
she was brought up with Father Christmas.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Well.
Speaker 14 (35:00):
On the front of a department store in on Queen
Street in Auckland, there is a huge Santa Claus put
up all in the red, all in the fur, all
in the cap, all in the boots, all with the
big white beard. He looks just like Santa Claus here
and that's the Southern Hemisphere. He must be melting.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
Yeah Christmas. Three christmases ago, I spent Christmas in Hobart, Tasmania,
and they had it. The entire main drag.
Speaker 17 (35:26):
Was chrisp was was reindeer Santa Claus Collie, which is
about as far away from from from Hobart in December
as you could possibly do.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
The Vikings realize the influence of.
Speaker 14 (35:38):
Right and then nobody knows it.
Speaker 17 (35:40):
And for the fun.
Speaker 14 (35:40):
This morning, I was just doing a web search, looking,
you know, for shopping center department stores around the world.
I found this big shopping center near Copenhagen called Fields
or something like that, full of big stores and expensive stores.
And I found the English version and it said, have
you sent your letter to Santa Claus yet?
Speaker 7 (35:58):
Well?
Speaker 4 (35:59):
The best part, of course, it comes down to it
is when I was a few years ago, maybe about
ten or twelve years ago, I drove up the Fiords
and through Norway and crossed over to Finland at the
nor Cap and right past the nor Cap in Finland,
what is there.
Speaker 17 (36:14):
But Santa's Village at the North Pole. And I mean
it might as well be the Santa Claus movie. I mean,
it's the elves. It's every cliche that came up in America.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Down there down Under, they were calling for the South Pole,
not the Pole. Yeah, possibility.
Speaker 14 (36:32):
What's interesting that so much of especially our secular Christmas
has come along. As soon as something new comes in,
it is automatically popular.
Speaker 17 (36:41):
You know.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
You look at the.
Speaker 14 (36:41):
History of the Christmas Tree, which dates back to the
time of the really, at the time of the Pagans,
holly ivy fir trees, they were all green during the winter,
so it represented that, you know, during these very cold,
very dark days, there was still life in the world.
But then as time went on, in Germany particularly, they
began using more and more of the firs. You know
(37:01):
the story about the fir tree hanging upside down from
the ceiling and which I think they probably just hung
in their rafters. But you know, there are stories about
how the modern Christmas tree evolved, and nobody really quite knows,
but there's one about you know, Martin Luther walking on
a snowy evening but with a lot of stars out
and the ground was covered with snow, and he saw
(37:22):
stars shining through a through a fir tree and it
was well, it was Christmas Eve, and he thought, you know,
this is something that would be representative of the birth
of Christ. Whether that's true or not. By fifteen thirty
one they were already selling what we regard as modern
fir trees in Germany, and one of the Christmas but it.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Was Queen Victoria and Prince Albert.
Speaker 14 (37:42):
Well, it actually was when you get out to that
because the German. It was the German Protestants, because while
we had early German settlers in Louisiana as early as
the seventeen twenties, they were from Catholic Germany. They didn't
they brought maybe the tradition of greenery with them. They
didn't bring the illuminated Christmas tree that pretty I stayed
with Germany. Now Germans who came to the United States,
(38:05):
well what became the United States in Pennsylvania Northeast, they
did bring the Christmas tree with them. I understand. The
story was that when Washington crossed the Delaware, the Hessians,
who were fighting for the British at the times, who
were Germans, were celebrating around a Christmas tree. I don't
know what Washington and his crew might have thought of
the Christmas tree when they got there, and German settlers
(38:28):
in New Orleans, immigrants to New Orleans and say the
eighteen thirties and eighteen forties, were already putting up Christmas trees,
but it hadn't spread to the rest of the public
until Prince Albert, who was German and Queen Victoria set
up a little table Christmas tree at Windsor Castle. It
was illustrated in the Illustrated London News and then God's
(38:50):
Ladies Book in the United States picked the same picture
up the next year, and they redrew it a little bit.
Speaker 15 (38:56):
You know.
Speaker 14 (38:57):
They took the crown off Queen Victoria, they took the
sash off off Prince Albert. But here was this, you know,
middle class, and that was a lot of their attitude.
Middle class, This middle class family with their kids around them,
ogling this Christmas tree. It took off like gangbusters. The
(39:17):
first Christmas tree lot in the United States, reputed and
it probably was, was on Fifth Avenue in New York
in eighteen fifty one way out on Fifth Avenue was
out in the country in New Orleans. People picked up
the Christmas tree. But we don't have fir trees. So
what did they do here? They dragged something off the porch.
Eliza Ripley, who wrote in nineteen twelve a memoir of
her life as a girl in the eighteen thirties and
(39:39):
eighteen forties and fifties, talks about how they were visiting
a plantation and someone suggested a Christmas tree, which she
had never seen before. So they dragged an outtha plant
off the porch. And put it up in the house
and decorated with presents and cut out things. Man named
sn Moody, he was an Englishman, owned a very very
(39:59):
successful men's or on Canal Street. He had one of
the mansions on canw Stry. It's still standing today. You'd
hardly see it as a house. But he dragged a
well he didn't. He probably had someone drag in a
sixteen foot Japanese plum tree to put and put it
under the arch between the two parlors of his house.
This is the way people decorated Christmas trees in the
(40:19):
norths and you'll see it at the Herman Grima House
where they use a you know, something that would grow
in a pot. In New Orleans, it wasn't until about
the eighteen eighties the tree fir trees. When the railroads
came in, the fir trees were really being shipped south.
But the first fir tree to be exhibited in New
Orleans was in eighteen fifty five and it was the
(40:39):
Ladies of Saint Paul's Episcopal Church, which was on Camp
Street under where the Expressway is today. A fir tree
was brought into New Orleans and they decorated it as
a Masonic hall on Saint Charles, and there were newspaper
articles about it. People some of the writers said, these
are the kinds of things our German friends put up
in New Orleans. We've never really seen one before, but
the ladies put it up in order to try to
(41:01):
raise money for to decorate the church, which was new
at that time. But by the eighteen eighties she began
to see real Christmas trees.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
John John mcguille, the author of Christmas in New Orleans,
is joining us. The book is available Christmas in New
Orleans on Amazon dot Com.
Speaker 14 (41:15):
If I'm a mistaken yes, Also, the Historic New Orleans
Collection has it in their shop. I saw it the
other day. They've got a few copies.
Speaker 5 (41:23):
We understand that Santa Claus is a patron saint also
of bankers. He was patron sating several things. And I'm
beginning to tie thinking about England and how they went
from Father Christmas to Santa Claus. Is it because of
the possibly because of the huge banking operations in England,
the famous Life Child family in their dynasty.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
So mister Ingle is a advertising Santa Claus is a
banker's how shall we say promotional vehicle, and so.
Speaker 5 (41:48):
You know, way wait wait, and also also how did
he become the patron Santa Bankers St. Nicholas St. Nicholas.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yes, of course, you know, I.
Speaker 14 (41:55):
Really don't know how that came about. He was a
very wealthy individual.
Speaker 5 (41:58):
Could have been this because the people, the poor people
would get in debt to the bankers, and then he
would relieve them of their debt to save their children.
And so maybe some kind of way that tied him
into the bankers posophostically. This is just my best guests, folks.
Speaker 14 (42:14):
So you know, this is something I do want to mention.
You know, we have the bonfires in Louisiana, which are
you know, really internationally noted as something very pretty unique
to hear, but this is probably a Celtic had Celtic
roots as well, and for those of.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Them are saying that these are bonfires that go basically
from Gramercy to Sorrento and a bit beyond that, all
along the levee and the river. But they're not something
that's been going they build it. This has been going
on since the seventeen hundreds. That's not exactly true.
Speaker 14 (42:41):
Well, there is indication that they were probably bonfires built
as early as the seventeen twenties, but they were not
there to leave Papa Noel end because there's no Papa
Noel at the time. It's something they brought from Europe
with them that has ancient roots, ancient pagan roots really.
Speaker 5 (42:55):
And those were probably Germans doing it right, oh, the German.
Speaker 14 (42:58):
Coast, considering what Germans would have done it. Yeah, yeah,
certainly are the Germans here. And you know, it's just
to light the dark sky and to you know, produce
some warmth during the winter period, you know you're getting
into the heights, so yeah, right, and and it was
just an old traditions. There are stories of fires being
(43:20):
bonfires in northeastern was now northeastern Canada, and people would
build these in their fireplaces and succeed in burning their
houses down, so you know, they would move it out
to community bonfires. A lot of it also evolved around Halloween,
and in some parts of the United States you still
have bonfires at Halloween, whereas here became more Christmas. And
(43:42):
part of that belief is that if you're celebrating the
birth of Christ, you don't want to have devils and
demons around. So it was felt that the more fire
you had, the more fireworks you shot off, the more
guns you shot off, the more noise you made, the
more drums you beaten, the more horns you blew, the
greater you I've these bad things away on what is
(44:03):
you know, one of the holier nights of the year,
And of course that was brought to New Orleans in
the nineteenth century. It was pretty raucous, but I won't
go into that. That pretty much died out with World
War One. But no, the bonfires were not there to
lead Papa Noel down. That came a lot later on.
But it's a nice, you know, twentieth century story.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
And if you've never done it, folks, it makes for
a fantastic, fantastic Christmas Eve. But on that note, John Miguil,
of course, former archivist of the Historic New Orleans Collection,
now authored many books, but Christmas and New Orleans. It
is available at Amazon dot com and of course at
the Historic New Orleans Collections bookstore, Ladies and Gentlemen, and
several other sources. I've actually seen it many places around
(44:44):
the city, so go look for it. John. Thank you
for coming honest and keeping the idea of Christmas and
New Orleans alive both in history and reality. So ladies
and gentlemen, it comes back when we come back the
Chaplain Babba moment. Here the founders.
Speaker 18 (45:00):
Show rescue, recovery, re engagement. These are not just words.
These are the action steps we at the New Orleans
Mission take to make a positive impact on the homeless
problem facing the greater New Orleans area. Partner with us today.
(45:22):
Go to www dot New Orleansmission dot org or make
a difference by texting to seven seven nine four eight.
Speaker 19 (45:33):
Folks, just tapping on a garry. I'm here to tell
you about our ministry alam In ministries. We're in an
city master avul in Acry focused and Formula four inner
city folks. We need all the help we get, folks.
We need volunteers, we need find support, we need prayer warriors.
It's a very challenging ministry with great results. We've seen
wonderful things happen over the past twenty eight years. If
(45:53):
you're interested, please contact us.
Speaker 16 (45:55):
You can call me at Eric got five zero four
seven two three six million, or you can get our
Websitelliam dot com.
Speaker 7 (46:04):
It's lamb in La dot com. Folks. Is very challenging
and we need all the help. We're dealing with.
Speaker 16 (46:10):
All the struggles and problems with the inner city. You ye,
please get in touch with and thank you so very
very much.
Speaker 17 (46:16):
Folks.
Speaker 5 (46:19):
We're back on the Finder Show, the Voice of the
funding Fathers, and this is yours truer Chaplain High Majederary.
You just be geared by all the Republic and we're
having a great Christmas show. And so today as we
talk about going to our chaplain by by patriotic moments,
to take a brief moment remind you the biblical foundations
of America, our Judeo Christian jurisprudence, history of this country.
Speaker 7 (46:39):
We're gonna talk about Christmas.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
So many things to talk about. Every president love and
they always had special days they appointed for Christmas and
to remember Christmas and to focus on Christmas. And so
today we're going to talk about a Christmas down here
New Walls because we love the twelve days of Christmas,
and we used to end it on twelfth Night every year.
Twelfth Night began one of the many great Margot celebrations
(47:03):
called twelfth Night Rattlers, where we bring out a king cake.
Now what is a king cake. It's a weird looking thing,
doesn't really look like a normal cake, and of course
put anything being normal down here.
Speaker 7 (47:14):
It's a circular cake.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Of what I mean by that is it looks like
a giant doughnut without any icing, although it does have
one of the things inside and outside of it. And
it's the three martgart colors green, gold, and purple, and
it represents it stands for the.
Speaker 7 (47:31):
Three kings who came to worship.
Speaker 5 (47:34):
The Christ shown and nobody knows if they were three
kings or not, but that's just a tradition. There were
kings from the East Masi pagan sorcerers who discovered the
real reason for the season. They discovered the Messiah, the
biblical Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, and they came to
worship him. And so they were kings coming to submit
(47:56):
themselves to the King of the universe, the King of
kings and Lord of lords. That's how important it was
to them. And when they were there and they came,
they didn't know where Jesus would be born. They knew
the time, but they didn't know when. So what they
did was they went to Herod, another evil king actually,
and to find out.
Speaker 7 (48:13):
Where he was.
Speaker 5 (48:14):
And Herod said, yeah, go on and find him, and
when you find him, let me know. I want to
come watch them too. Well, Herod was going to go
kill him. He didn't want he didn't like the competition.
So they went there and they had a dream where
God warns that.
Speaker 7 (48:25):
Get out of there, go all the way around.
Speaker 5 (48:27):
Jerusalem, don't go back to see Herod and escape because
this man's coming to kill the Messiah. And so they
did that. They went in a circuitous road rut. Hence
the king cake is in a circle. And inside of
the king cake you find it used to be a
bean and that represented like a little baby. But then
now we have plastic babies in there. And so whoever
(48:48):
gets the baby gets to be the gift giver because
Jesus was the greatest gift giver of all. That means
you have to give the next party. And it's a
fund one funnel of fun and wonderful tradition that Americans
down here and wants.
Speaker 7 (49:00):
That's celebrated forever well for generations.
Speaker 5 (49:04):
And so remember this. We have Christmas because Christ is
the greatest gift giver ever given. He is a gift,
He is a gift, and that's why in the queer
Old Christmas. They wouldn't make a big deal out of
how many presents you get on Christmas, because the greatest
present was already here.
Speaker 7 (49:19):
It was the Lord Jesus Christ. Well, folks, do you
have that gift?
Speaker 5 (49:23):
Do you have the Lord of Jesus? As we now
go into our chaplain by bah gospel moment, you know,
the Bible says God loves you with an everlasting love.
The Bob says, for God, so love the world. That's you,
that's everybody that he gave his only godden son. That's
the Lord Jesus Christ, perfect God, perfect man, all the way, God,
all the way. Man that who's ever believeth in him,
believe with what believe that he died for all your sins.
Was Barry Roseman. The day he died for your sins,
(49:45):
the day you're born, to day you die, you tell
you see the greatest sins. And then he rose in
the day to win for you his precious free gift
of ever the lasting line that it was overloving him
shall not perish now go to hell, but have everlasting life.
If you've never done that before, do it now?
Speaker 7 (49:58):
Do it today? As we close with handles Messiah, one.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
Of the greatest songs ever written in the history of Wall.
God bless out there, and we'll see you on the
next showing a merry, merry Christmas, hold.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
The world and and to take us out of the show,
(52:41):
have yourself a merry little Christmas by pianist and a
lot of smith Aber t Sa Bar