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April 29, 2025 56 mins

Following the 9/11 attacks, both liberal and conservative justices contributed to the rise of some authoritarian powers that the Trump administration is now wielding today.


ERRATA: Henry Blodget is no longer the CEO of Business Insider.

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5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.


Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.


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