January 15, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode, Chadwick Moore discusses his journey from being a journalist at major gay publications to coming out as a conservative, the impact of his decision on his personal and professional life, and his experiences writing a biography on Tucker Carlson. He reflects on the cultural shifts in politics, the importance of personal relationships, and offers insights into his writing process and future aspirations. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Wednesday & Friday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, and welcome back to Karl mark Worth's show on iHeartRadio.
No monologue this week as I'm traveling, but coming up
an interview with Chadwick Moore. But first, on January twenty seventh,
International Holocaust Remembrance Day, we remember the great evil of
the Holocaust, when millions of Jews were slaughtered during the
(00:25):
Nazis reign of terror. Today, the rise in global anti
Semitism and the constant attacks on Israel show us that
it's more important than ever to remember the atrocities of
the Holocaust to ensure it never happens again. That's why
I've partnered with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.
They provide food, shelter and safety to Jews in Israel
(00:50):
and around the world, including those remaining Holocaust survivors. Your
donation today will help provide food, water, medicine, and other
basic necessities to Jewish communities, and through your gift, you
will stand with the Jewish people and against this growing
anti Semitism and hatred. Give a gift to show your
(01:12):
support of the Jewish people by visiting SUPPORTIFCJ dot org.
That's one word, support IFCJ dot org or call eight
eight eight four eight eight IFCJ. That's eight eight eight
four eight eight IFCJ eight eight eight four eight eight
(01:33):
four three two five. Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz
Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Chadwickmore. Chadwick is
the author of the book Tucker, a biography of Tucker Carlson,
and has an excellent substack you can check out at
Chadwickmore dot com. Hi, Chadwick, So nice to have you on.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Hey, Carol, great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So I first heard of you, or maybe even met
you shortly after you were canceled by the left around
what was it twenty seventeen or twenty.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Eighteen, Yeah, yeah, early twenty seventeen, right after the inauguration
Trump's first inauguration.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So you were working at the Advocate and Out magazines,
which are two major gay magazines, right that correer.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah they were, Yeah, they were gay magazines. I think
they're just trans magazines now, but they were at the
time the big gay magazines in the country.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Right. So, and then you came out as a conservative.
You wrote an article saying that you were voting for Trump.
Why did you do it?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I mean, mainly it was like, I didn't think it
was in the New York Post and I got so
it was mainly watching what happened. A lot of big
building up to it. But you know Trump's inauguration. I
saw the outrage, and I saw like the Pink half
March and all this, you know, Madonna saying you want
to blow up the White House? All this stuff. I
got like, and I realized also an image in that
(03:02):
march of people were holding this these posters of like
a woman in a job, like an American flag a job.
And I'm like, I've never seen all these images and thought,
I just can't stay silent anymore because I thought, you know,
at the time, I was I've always been a journalist,
and but I didn't. I wasn't really in political journalism.
I mostly did human interest stories features things of that nature,
(03:25):
which I love and still love, but I kind of
stayed away from the politics side of it. I had
my views, I kept quiet about them, and after I
saw that, I just thought I have to say something,
not thinking it would anyone would even read it or
be attention to it.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, like you didn't think, No, I was, no, not
at all.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I was so naive. I'm still super naive, I think,
but I was really naive, and I just thought like,
I'm just going to be like, you know, I'm not
like these people, just because like I'm a gay guy.
I work at these gay publications. I also wrote for
The New York Times and Playboy and a bunch of
other places, and you know, I just thought like, I'm
going to say something just to be like I'm not
like them. I don't hate Trump. I believe in free speech.
(04:03):
I believe in something called the truth is out there,
and I think that the media and my colleagues are
behaving ridiculously. And I thought it was super innocent. I
really didn't think much had come of it, and then
to my surprise, it went totally viral, and then I
canceled and fired and all this other stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So it's funny because if I had known you before,
I'd be like, Chadwick, don't do this. You're going to
destroy your life. But obviously it was the right thing
to do. And I often ask people who do the
right thing, even though it clearly will harm them, why
they do that. And I think that, you know, has
it been a positive for you, Like, do you wish
(04:41):
you hadn't come out as a conservative.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh no, not at all. I mean it has been
a positive in the sense. I mean, I never I
guess I didn't think. I didn't think too much about
it because I've always just been the sort of person,
for better or worse, the sort of person just kind
of goes with my instincts and just says what I think,
you know, which is also got me into a lot
of trouble. Uh. You know, at first, it was really
(05:05):
difficult for sure, because I lost I didn't know what.
I didn't have any friends who were like conservative. I
wasn't like in conservative meaning I was you know, I
was very much completely on my own for a very
long time because, you know, aside from losing my jobs,
I also lost on my friends because of that silly article.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
And kind of a big deal.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, I know. So I wasn't really I was
not prepared for that at all. I was not prepared
for the reaction. I wasn't prepared for the positive reaction
that immediately came from it, which was thousands of people
reaching out to me and emailing me and sending me
messages on social media of support. I wasn't expecting the
good or the bad. Uh, And I don't even though
(05:47):
it was super hard. You know, I had money, I'm
not I had the money I was, you know, couldn't
think my rent I was getting evicted because I don't
have a job. And yeah, but during that time, I
even kept saying myself, I kept asking myself like did
I do something wrong? Or are these people right about me?
And each time I came back to it and I said, no,
I didn't do anything wrong. So even during the really
(06:09):
dark period immediately following that, I never regretted it one
bit at all. And of course, you know, life then
gradually got better, and you know, you find yourself and
your footing and you find out, you know, you find people,
genuine good people in your life, and those relationships become
more meaningful. Have any of.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Those friends come back or they were all all done?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
None of my good friends, like my core best friends,
none of them, not a peep. But I have had
some kind of acquaintances who've come back, not many, two
or three who've said, you know, I'm basically I'm sorry,
or I realized that you were right or been like
(06:56):
red built since then a former roommate, you know, asked
me up for the other day. I kind of said
that as much. So that's been interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Did you always want to be a writer?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I did, Yeah, since high school is when I kind
of fell in love with literature. I used to want
to be a fiction writer, and I went to school
for creative writing, mostly fiction and creative writing, and journalism
and English journalism sort of the fallback. I never wanted
to get into journalism. And then I spent some time
(07:29):
in book publishing, and but I sort of immediately, you know,
realized that that number one fiction writing is sort of silly,
and there's from a professional standpoint, it's very difficult to
make a living doing that. But also more than that,
I just sort of began to realize that real life
is far more interesting than fiction. I began to get
(07:50):
more interested in and then, of course, you know, this
was many years ago, but then when Donald Trump came
along and things of that nature, know, uh, the world
just became more interesting too. Politics became more interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
What do you consider your beat, Now, that's.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
A great question. I'm not really sure. I mean, I
guess it's a lot of cultural cultural commentary in politics.
I I you know, I wrote this book. You mentioned
about Tucker, and I really loved working on that because
it didn't feel like a political book. You know, I
get really bogged down with too much of the infighting
and the politics and the outrage. And I still at
(08:30):
that core. I love the human interest side of things,
and and I find people more interesting than politics. I
find uh so that that book was really wonderful to
work on because it didn't feel like a political book.
It felt like just a book about a guy, a
really interesting guy and a really important and increasingly powerful person.
(08:51):
Uh just you know, getting into his story and his
life and what he's about, what motivates him, where he
came from, his family history. I love that stuff. But
I still love that stuff. But I love sort of
that that date deeper into the I guess it's more
of the humanity side of political journalism.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Did you become friends? I feel like I always wonder
what happens with a biographer and their subject, Like what
happens at the end?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Are you guys? You know?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Do you hang out?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I know, I know everything about you, like everything about you.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, she's still you still text me and and I
think it's still the same exact relationship as we did beforehand.
Of course I know a lot more about him now
and uh yeah, yeah, we've still we still keep up
and and uh and all that. For sure.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Who would you want to write a biography about?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Next?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Like? Who? Your kind of dream?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well? I had it, and I wanted to do Malania
Trump so badly, but she just wrote her own book.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
You can still you can still do it, for sure,
And biographies are very different.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yes, this is true, This is true. But you know,
I'm kind of looking in other directions now. But but
that was for serve by next one I saw she published.
I also know people I've never met her, but people
were friends of mine, are close to her, and I
know she's very very guarded. I wouldn't want to do
a biography where I couldn't have the kind of personal
access that I did with Tuck her. I'm not sure
(10:16):
if she would give that to anyone, but that was
sort of my Before she published her own book, I
thought like, oh man, that would be so interesting because
she's such a mystery, you know, like I would still love.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
To read a biography of her where somebody does have
access to you know, she's she is so interesting and
I think that there's so many things we don't know
about her, and she's she's a very I'm Eastern European.
I get it. I get the stoicism and you know,
not letting anybody really break through. But I would love
(10:49):
to know, you know, what did she think? What did
who did she like?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
What?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
What's you know? Is she funny? All all these different
things that I think would be interesting to read about her.
So I think you should do it. But okay, so
who else I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Still have the table. I'm thinking about it. In terms
of biography, I mean after the show, you know, I know, right, yeah,
the people who I think are I think Steve Bannon
would make a fascinating one, but there's one already in
the works with him I know of, which doesn't mean
there's that room for more than one book. I think
(11:22):
he's super fascinating. You know, there's there's few There's a
lot of people out there in the political world who
I think are really important and and and and uh
and powerful. But there's there's a thing you can't really
put your finger on that I think makes it compelling
for compelling biography. For some reason, I think Melanie has
I think Steve has it. I met Steve many times.
Tucker definitely had it. I mean, there's not I wouldn't
(11:44):
want to write a biography of just some cable news hosts.
I mean, most people in cable aren't that interesting. He
certainly was, and he was a he was a a
dream subject. You really just put the recorder down in
front of him and let him talk for hours and
it's all sort of hilarious and interesting. But other than that,
I don't know. You know, I don't know what the
(12:05):
next book will be a biography because some I'm kind
of kicking around, but you know, I've been taking some
time to kind of think about what I want to do.
And you know, the political landscape of the zeitchdeaceis shifted
so much now that I just feel there's something in
the culture, especially on the right, that's looking. You know,
(12:27):
we've spent so long, we've spent the last eight years
plus just so bogged down. Even when Trump was present
the first time, we were still at war, you know,
like we were still under in the trenches because it
was just so relentless everything that you were just defending
him so much and defending ourselves so much. And now
it really feels like something's broken that like we're breathing
for the first time in eight years. Is that there's
(12:48):
an in return to normalcy. And maybe just because the
left is so quiet right now, perhaps plotting something far
more evil than we could possibly imagine, but there is
at least momentarily this sense of relief and optimism and
I and I really want to and I'm feeling it
and I want to capture that in the next subject.
I think, something looking beyond anger and defensiveness. Yeah, something deeper,
(13:10):
you know.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, it definitely feels like an optimistic moment. My co
host Mary Katherine Hamm and I on my other podcast
normally we talk about it all the time, but you know,
we refer to it as the vibe shift. There's been
this very noticeable vibe shift where everybody feels lighter and
more optimistic. And I want to say, even people on
the left that I follow on x they could still
hate him, but they are their their kind of tone
(13:34):
is different. They're definitely not as like everything is so
serious and awful and terrible. They're they they're kind of
looking at the future and thinking like maybe maybe it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Will be better for sure, And even I feel it
just in the in the streets of New York and
even in the shops and what have you, people who
you assume probably vote a Democrat feel sort of believed.
You know, I think a lot of people, like outside
the lefty influencer world and media world, I think a
lot of average Democrats are sort of relieved that he
won because they know that Daddy's Harmony's going to start
(14:06):
fixing things, like they're not so bad.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, I'm not super into the Daddy's home thing. I
don't know, I'm finding a little a little bit too much.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
But I've seen that before. Also, even before Trump. I
had a friend who, you know, was an upper middle
class lawyer during the Bush years, and when he got
re elected in two thousand and four, she was like,
I'm really happy about it, even though I voted for Kerrie, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
There's a stability and like a clear vision and there
was absolutely no clear vision or stability with the alternative
at all.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Chaos. It's been chaos. And have they even had a president.
It seems like no. And like I think that me
of maybe I was more libertarian of like ten years ago,
would have said like, oh, it'll be fine, like, but
it actually hasn't been fine, and I think things have
gotten progressively worse as we have an absent pre on
the world stage for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah yeah, and it just as you said, it's the vibe,
how that sort of infected everyone's psyche no matter how
you vote.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
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Speaker 2 (16:50):
What do you worry about? Not as much as I
used to? I can tell you that, like, not as
much as when I was a kid, for sure, you know,
I think now like a lot of things, you know.
But I think I worry about I worry about like
my parents getting older. I think a lot of people
worry about that. I think I worry about people I
know getting older. I worry about people I know, like
(17:12):
maybe dealing with loneliness or dealing with this or the other.
I don't know. I just read. I just read this
great book. It's from the seventies and I've never read
it before. But I can't even remember what drove me
to pick it up. But it's called Life After Life.
I believe it's the book from It's a very short book.
It's so uplifting and wonderful, but it's it's like it's
(17:34):
the book about near death experiences written by a doctor
or study like one hundred and fifty. Oh yeah, we
have to pick it up. It was the book that
that you know, the whole trope with the light at
the end of the tunnel. It was that book that
sparked that year, written over one hundred and fifty people
about these experiences, either when they were pronounced clinically dead
or had a near death experience, and they're almost all
(17:54):
the exact same. Uh. And so I bring that book,
you know, me thinking about, you know, meeting God, as
we should think about all the time. I think I
worry a lot about not having that answer when you
die as to you know, so, what did you do
in your life to make the world a better place?
What did you do to help people? You know? What's
(18:15):
that one thing you can point to? They worry about
not having an answer to that, that one big thing.
So I think it's probably a good thing to worry about.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You're still quite young, you have a lot of a
lot of time to.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
That's true, But you know, things should happen.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
You know, you never know is your family politically like
you or has that been difficult?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
We're split. One side of the family as conservative Republican
and one is liberal Democrat. And I'm thankful that you know,
the Democrats are the only the only ones you bring
it up, you know all the time.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, that used to being tell in New York. When
somebody didn't mention politics in the first like five minutes
of meeting them, I'd feel conservatives then, you.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Know, exactly exactly for sure, But I'm thankful that it hasn't.
Christmas is coming up, so we'll see what happens on Christmas.
But I'm thankful that it hasn't aside from maybe a
tiff here there that that there's still a lot of
love in the family and then so far choosing to
look beyond politics. But we'll see what happens at Christmas
with the Democrats.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
What advice would you give your sixteen year old self,
sixteen year old Chadwick, what would you tell him?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh? Man, you know, I've tempted to say, like, you know,
don't be such an angsty, little misanthropic Holden caw Field.
But at the same time, Like those are my favorite teenagers.
So like, you know, go ahead and be as angsty
as you want. That you should be go through that phase.
You have to for sure, like you're not you didn't
go through adolescents. If you didn't, I think he just
(19:50):
maybe I just warned him about the sort of hypocrisy
and nepotism that awaits him in the world. Uh, you know,
be wary of that and and and maybe you know,
like soaking your grandmother's more, you know, even not that
I didn't do it enough, but you know, like you're
gonna be four years old and still mishugging your grandma.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, totally grandma.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
That's a really good one because I feel like grandma's
just grandparents in general don't get the same like respect
that they used to. I don't know that, yeah for sure,
But for me, my grandma was one of my most
important people ever, and I definitely I think soaking up
your grandparents is such a good piece of advice for
young people.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Totally, Like as much time as you're spending with them,
it's not enough.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
More absolutely, But so you wouldn't tell sixteen year old
Chadwick don't come out as a conservative.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
No, I wouldn't give him any advice in that, I
think in terms of career or anything like that, or
any of the myriad of mistakes and bad shit that
I did in my life. Sorry, I'm like sorry to
mean to cuss. Uh yeah, don't do don't get blind
drunk that night, don't date that, because you got to
learn from all that stuff, you know, you gotta. Maybe
(21:03):
I would tell them to like, uh, I don't know, No,
I don't think you got to make all those mistakes
and do all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, I like that. I definitely think that. You know,
I have three kids. I want them to make their
own mistakes. It just it's so when you could see
the mistake coming, it's very hard to not say you're
doing anything about it. But it's the right move for sure.
We all, you know, grow from those mistakes and hopefully
be better.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I don't know, it's part of the adventure, you know
what I mean, Like, that's what you have to go through.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
But you're also you're you're living in New York. You're
going to stick it out in New York. Is that
like the future.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, I'm looking at I'm looking at having like one
moving towards the future where I just have one foot
in here, you know, maybe keeping a little pianotary or something.
But you know, if you want to raise a family,
don't do it here at all. It's it's child abuse
in a lot of ways. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I liked it when the kids were little. It was
just like post COVID, everybody lost their minds and everything
fell apart. But if it like I always knew it
was left, but it wasn't. I don't know it was.
It was a nice place to raise kids when they
were little, is what I would Yeah my advice.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah, I think I'd worried about them growing up
too fast once they reach middle school or high school,
everything that they're exposed to, and also not you know,
the connection with nature and the outdoors, you know, which
is something I'm absolutely yearning for, which is why I'm
looking to greener, more pastoral living more full time. But
(22:37):
you know, for yeah, it's you know this everything seems cold.
One thing that's just annoying me so much about New
York is just it's just the culture is dying. It's
just it's small businesses and the uniqueness is being suffocated
out and maybe it should be allowed to die, you know,
like yeah, I mean there's always.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, I wouldn't mind if it was just a circle
of life, you know, small business closes, small business opens, whatever.
But like I felt, you know, COVID was like it
was those businesses were murdered.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Sure, you know, back, I can't support the local businesses
that I want to because it's just ungodly. It's like
the Christmas tree at my local forest was you know,
one hundred and fifty dollars and it was sixty at
Whole Foods. Yeah, like, what are you going to do?
It's not you know, it's like just things like that,
and it's sad. At the same time, it's like, well,
they voted for it, and this is directions going and
(23:28):
it's just becoming like all the West, this kind of
just monoculture of corporate wow. You know.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, I would say, you know, there's a there's a
Miami here that is trying to fight against that a
little bit. I mean, look, we have the tech bros
and everything moving in, but there's definitely a sense in
Miami of still independent culture. And it's the only red
city I believe, in the country, the only red major
city in the country. So yeah, you don't know, Chadwick,
(23:56):
Miami might be I guess you know what, this show
is very only talking people into moving to fly.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I totally I know I've heard you, and I was
actually just thinking about that because it's been misty and
gray and forty degrees the last days and that's my
favorite weather of all time. And I'm like, I couldn't
get this, Florida. I'm so happy looking outside the window
right now at the gray well.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I have loved this conversation. You are awesome. I love
to follow you and read all your work. I just
think you're so great. And here with your best tip
for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I think that what's okay? So hmmm. For me, it's
you know, I think getting a hobby is something that's
just super nerdy and you're into, Well, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
What's your hobby? Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Mine? Yeah, fish keeping. I have fish tanks and it's
so nerdy and I'm totally into it. It's such a
it's such like an amazing stress relief, but it's creative
and because it's like aquascaping and all this stuff, that's
one of my hobbies. Guardings my other hobby.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
That there I thought fish keeping involved like catching fish
and keeping them.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
No, no, being aquarus. Having fish tanks is one thing
I has become my hobby lately. That's like my big
stress reliever minority thing and gardening. But those both kind
of relate to like taking care of things and watching
things grow and you know, which I think is a
wonderful thing. I think that that probably connects to like
the bigger piece of advice of getting outside and just
appreciating nature and the stars and other people. Getting off
(25:27):
social media, because for sure you can put some moments
in your life where you're so trapped and it destroyed.
It really does rot your brain, it really does destroy
your outlook on everything. So I think that's the best advice,
is to get outside and appreciate the movement of the
world and nature. I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Thank you so much for coming on. Check out his book, Tucker.
Check him out at Chadwickmore dot com.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Thank you so much, Jedman, Thank you such a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to Karl mark Worth's show on iHeartRadio.
No monologue this week as I'm traveling, but coming up
an interview with Chadwick Moore. But first, on January twenty seventh,
International Holocaust Remembrance Day, we remember the great evil of
the Holocaust, when millions of Jews were slaughtered during the
(00:25):
Nazis reign of terror. Today, the rise in global anti
Semitism and the constant attacks on Israel show us that
it's more important than ever to remember the atrocities of
the Holocaust to ensure it never happens again. That's why
I've partnered with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.
They provide food, shelter and safety to Jews in Israel
(00:50):
and around the world, including those remaining Holocaust survivors. Your
donation today will help provide food, water, medicine, and other
basic necessities to Jewish communities, and through your gift, you
will stand with the Jewish people and against this growing
anti Semitism and hatred. Give a gift to show your
(01:12):
support of the Jewish people by visiting SUPPORTIFCJ dot org.
That's one word, support IFCJ dot org or call eight
eight eight four eight eight IFCJ. That's eight eight eight
four eight eight IFCJ eight eight eight four eight eight
(01:33):
four three two five. Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz
Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Chadwickmore. Chadwick is
the author of the book Tucker, a biography of Tucker Carlson,
and has an excellent substack you can check out at
Chadwickmore dot com. Hi, Chadwick, So nice to have you on.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Hey, Carol, great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So I first heard of you, or maybe even met
you shortly after you were canceled by the left around
what was it twenty seventeen or twenty.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Eighteen, Yeah, yeah, early twenty seventeen, right after the inauguration
Trump's first inauguration.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So you were working at the Advocate and Out magazines,
which are two major gay magazines, right that correer.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah they were, Yeah, they were gay magazines. I think
they're just trans magazines now, but they were at the
time the big gay magazines in the country.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Right. So, and then you came out as a conservative.
You wrote an article saying that you were voting for Trump.
Why did you do it?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I mean, mainly it was like, I didn't think it
was in the New York Post and I got so
it was mainly watching what happened. A lot of big
building up to it. But you know Trump's inauguration. I
saw the outrage, and I saw like the Pink half
March and all this, you know, Madonna saying you want
to blow up the White House? All this stuff. I
got like, and I realized also an image in that
(03:02):
march of people were holding this these posters of like
a woman in a job, like an American flag a job.
And I'm like, I've never seen all these images and thought,
I just can't stay silent anymore because I thought, you know,
at the time, I was I've always been a journalist,
and but I didn't. I wasn't really in political journalism.
I mostly did human interest stories features things of that nature,
(03:25):
which I love and still love, but I kind of
stayed away from the politics side of it. I had
my views, I kept quiet about them, and after I
saw that, I just thought I have to say something,
not thinking it would anyone would even read it or
be attention to it.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, like you didn't think, No, I was, no, not
at all.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I was so naive. I'm still super naive, I think,
but I was really naive, and I just thought like,
I'm just going to be like, you know, I'm not
like these people, just because like I'm a gay guy.
I work at these gay publications. I also wrote for
The New York Times and Playboy and a bunch of
other places, and you know, I just thought like, I'm
going to say something just to be like I'm not
like them. I don't hate Trump. I believe in free speech.
(04:03):
I believe in something called the truth is out there,
and I think that the media and my colleagues are
behaving ridiculously. And I thought it was super innocent. I
really didn't think much had come of it, and then
to my surprise, it went totally viral, and then I
canceled and fired and all this other stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So it's funny because if I had known you before,
I'd be like, Chadwick, don't do this. You're going to
destroy your life. But obviously it was the right thing
to do. And I often ask people who do the
right thing, even though it clearly will harm them, why
they do that. And I think that, you know, has
it been a positive for you, Like, do you wish
(04:41):
you hadn't come out as a conservative.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh no, not at all. I mean it has been
a positive in the sense. I mean, I never I
guess I didn't think. I didn't think too much about
it because I've always just been the sort of person,
for better or worse, the sort of person just kind
of goes with my instincts and just says what I think,
you know, which is also got me into a lot
of trouble. Uh. You know, at first, it was really
(05:05):
difficult for sure, because I lost I didn't know what.
I didn't have any friends who were like conservative. I
wasn't like in conservative meaning I was you know, I
was very much completely on my own for a very
long time because, you know, aside from losing my jobs,
I also lost on my friends because of that silly article.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
And kind of a big deal.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, I know. So I wasn't really I was
not prepared for that at all. I was not prepared
for the reaction. I wasn't prepared for the positive reaction
that immediately came from it, which was thousands of people
reaching out to me and emailing me and sending me
messages on social media of support. I wasn't expecting the
good or the bad. Uh, And I don't even though
(05:47):
it was super hard. You know, I had money, I'm
not I had the money I was, you know, couldn't
think my rent I was getting evicted because I don't
have a job. And yeah, but during that time, I
even kept saying myself, I kept asking myself like did
I do something wrong? Or are these people right about me?
And each time I came back to it and I said, no,
I didn't do anything wrong. So even during the really
(06:09):
dark period immediately following that, I never regretted it one
bit at all. And of course, you know, life then
gradually got better, and you know, you find yourself and
your footing and you find out, you know, you find people,
genuine good people in your life, and those relationships become
more meaningful. Have any of.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Those friends come back or they were all all done?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
None of my good friends, like my core best friends,
none of them, not a peep. But I have had
some kind of acquaintances who've come back, not many, two
or three who've said, you know, I'm basically I'm sorry,
or I realized that you were right or been like
(06:56):
red built since then a former roommate, you know, asked
me up for the other day. I kind of said
that as much. So that's been interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Did you always want to be a writer?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I did, Yeah, since high school is when I kind
of fell in love with literature. I used to want
to be a fiction writer, and I went to school
for creative writing, mostly fiction and creative writing, and journalism
and English journalism sort of the fallback. I never wanted
to get into journalism. And then I spent some time
(07:29):
in book publishing, and but I sort of immediately, you know,
realized that that number one fiction writing is sort of silly,
and there's from a professional standpoint, it's very difficult to
make a living doing that. But also more than that,
I just sort of began to realize that real life
is far more interesting than fiction. I began to get
(07:50):
more interested in and then, of course, you know, this
was many years ago, but then when Donald Trump came
along and things of that nature, know, uh, the world
just became more interesting too. Politics became more interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
What do you consider your beat, Now, that's.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
A great question. I'm not really sure. I mean, I
guess it's a lot of cultural cultural commentary in politics.
I I you know, I wrote this book. You mentioned
about Tucker, and I really loved working on that because
it didn't feel like a political book. You know, I
get really bogged down with too much of the infighting
and the politics and the outrage. And I still at
(08:30):
that core. I love the human interest side of things,
and and I find people more interesting than politics. I
find uh so that that book was really wonderful to
work on because it didn't feel like a political book.
It felt like just a book about a guy, a
really interesting guy and a really important and increasingly powerful person.
(08:51):
Uh just you know, getting into his story and his
life and what he's about, what motivates him, where he
came from, his family history. I love that stuff. But
I still love that stuff. But I love sort of
that that date deeper into the I guess it's more
of the humanity side of political journalism.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Did you become friends? I feel like I always wonder
what happens with a biographer and their subject, Like what
happens at the end?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Are you guys? You know?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Do you hang out?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I know, I know everything about you, like everything about you.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, she's still you still text me and and I
think it's still the same exact relationship as we did beforehand.
Of course I know a lot more about him now
and uh yeah, yeah, we've still we still keep up
and and uh and all that. For sure.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Who would you want to write a biography about?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Next?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Like? Who? Your kind of dream?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well? I had it, and I wanted to do Malania
Trump so badly, but she just wrote her own book.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
You can still you can still do it, for sure,
And biographies are very different.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yes, this is true, This is true. But you know,
I'm kind of looking in other directions now. But but
that was for serve by next one I saw she published.
I also know people I've never met her, but people
were friends of mine, are close to her, and I
know she's very very guarded. I wouldn't want to do
a biography where I couldn't have the kind of personal
access that I did with Tuck her. I'm not sure
(10:16):
if she would give that to anyone, but that was
sort of my Before she published her own book, I
thought like, oh man, that would be so interesting because
she's such a mystery, you know, like I would still love.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
To read a biography of her where somebody does have
access to you know, she's she is so interesting and
I think that there's so many things we don't know
about her, and she's she's a very I'm Eastern European.
I get it. I get the stoicism and you know,
not letting anybody really break through. But I would love
(10:49):
to know, you know, what did she think? What did
who did she like?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
What?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
What's you know? Is she funny? All all these different
things that I think would be interesting to read about her.
So I think you should do it. But okay, so
who else I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Still have the table. I'm thinking about it. In terms
of biography, I mean after the show, you know, I know, right, yeah,
the people who I think are I think Steve Bannon
would make a fascinating one, but there's one already in
the works with him I know of, which doesn't mean
there's that room for more than one book. I think
(11:22):
he's super fascinating. You know, there's there's few There's a
lot of people out there in the political world who
I think are really important and and and and uh
and powerful. But there's there's a thing you can't really
put your finger on that I think makes it compelling
for compelling biography. For some reason, I think Melanie has
I think Steve has it. I met Steve many times.
Tucker definitely had it. I mean, there's not I wouldn't
(11:44):
want to write a biography of just some cable news hosts.
I mean, most people in cable aren't that interesting. He
certainly was, and he was a he was a a
dream subject. You really just put the recorder down in
front of him and let him talk for hours and
it's all sort of hilarious and interesting. But other than that,
I don't know. You know, I don't know what the
(12:05):
next book will be a biography because some I'm kind
of kicking around, but you know, I've been taking some
time to kind of think about what I want to do.
And you know, the political landscape of the zeitchdeaceis shifted
so much now that I just feel there's something in
the culture, especially on the right, that's looking. You know,
(12:27):
we've spent so long, we've spent the last eight years
plus just so bogged down. Even when Trump was present
the first time, we were still at war, you know,
like we were still under in the trenches because it
was just so relentless everything that you were just defending
him so much and defending ourselves so much. And now
it really feels like something's broken that like we're breathing
for the first time in eight years. Is that there's
(12:48):
an in return to normalcy. And maybe just because the
left is so quiet right now, perhaps plotting something far
more evil than we could possibly imagine, but there is
at least momentarily this sense of relief and optimism and
I and I really want to and I'm feeling it
and I want to capture that in the next subject.
I think, something looking beyond anger and defensiveness. Yeah, something deeper,
(13:10):
you know.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, it definitely feels like an optimistic moment. My co
host Mary Katherine Hamm and I on my other podcast
normally we talk about it all the time, but you know,
we refer to it as the vibe shift. There's been
this very noticeable vibe shift where everybody feels lighter and
more optimistic. And I want to say, even people on
the left that I follow on x they could still
hate him, but they are their their kind of tone
(13:34):
is different. They're definitely not as like everything is so
serious and awful and terrible. They're they they're kind of
looking at the future and thinking like maybe maybe it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Will be better for sure, And even I feel it
just in the in the streets of New York and
even in the shops and what have you, people who
you assume probably vote a Democrat feel sort of believed.
You know, I think a lot of people, like outside
the lefty influencer world and media world, I think a
lot of average Democrats are sort of relieved that he
won because they know that Daddy's Harmony's going to start
(14:06):
fixing things, like they're not so bad.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, I'm not super into the Daddy's home thing. I
don't know, I'm finding a little a little bit too much.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
But I've seen that before. Also, even before Trump. I
had a friend who, you know, was an upper middle
class lawyer during the Bush years, and when he got
re elected in two thousand and four, she was like,
I'm really happy about it, even though I voted for Kerrie, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
There's a stability and like a clear vision and there
was absolutely no clear vision or stability with the alternative
at all.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Chaos. It's been chaos. And have they even had a president.
It seems like no. And like I think that me
of maybe I was more libertarian of like ten years ago,
would have said like, oh, it'll be fine, like, but
it actually hasn't been fine, and I think things have
gotten progressively worse as we have an absent pre on
the world stage for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah yeah, and it just as you said, it's the vibe,
how that sort of infected everyone's psyche no matter how
you vote.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
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Speaker 2 (16:50):
What do you worry about? Not as much as I
used to? I can tell you that, like, not as
much as when I was a kid, for sure, you know,
I think now like a lot of things, you know.
But I think I worry about I worry about like
my parents getting older. I think a lot of people
worry about that. I think I worry about people I
know getting older. I worry about people I know, like
(17:12):
maybe dealing with loneliness or dealing with this or the other.
I don't know. I just read. I just read this
great book. It's from the seventies and I've never read
it before. But I can't even remember what drove me
to pick it up. But it's called Life After Life.
I believe it's the book from It's a very short book.
It's so uplifting and wonderful, but it's it's like it's
(17:34):
the book about near death experiences written by a doctor
or study like one hundred and fifty. Oh yeah, we
have to pick it up. It was the book that
that you know, the whole trope with the light at
the end of the tunnel. It was that book that
sparked that year, written over one hundred and fifty people
about these experiences, either when they were pronounced clinically dead
or had a near death experience, and they're almost all
(17:54):
the exact same. Uh. And so I bring that book,
you know, me thinking about, you know, meeting God, as
we should think about all the time. I think I
worry a lot about not having that answer when you
die as to you know, so, what did you do
in your life to make the world a better place?
What did you do to help people? You know? What's
(18:15):
that one thing you can point to? They worry about
not having an answer to that, that one big thing.
So I think it's probably a good thing to worry about.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You're still quite young, you have a lot of a
lot of time to.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
That's true, But you know, things should happen.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
You know, you never know is your family politically like
you or has that been difficult?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
We're split. One side of the family as conservative Republican
and one is liberal Democrat. And I'm thankful that you know,
the Democrats are the only the only ones you bring
it up, you know all the time.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, that used to being tell in New York. When
somebody didn't mention politics in the first like five minutes
of meeting them, I'd feel conservatives then, you.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Know, exactly exactly for sure, But I'm thankful that it hasn't.
Christmas is coming up, so we'll see what happens on Christmas.
But I'm thankful that it hasn't aside from maybe a
tiff here there that that there's still a lot of
love in the family and then so far choosing to
look beyond politics. But we'll see what happens at Christmas
with the Democrats.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
What advice would you give your sixteen year old self,
sixteen year old Chadwick, what would you tell him?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh? Man, you know, I've tempted to say, like, you know,
don't be such an angsty, little misanthropic Holden caw Field.
But at the same time, Like those are my favorite teenagers.
So like, you know, go ahead and be as angsty
as you want. That you should be go through that phase.
You have to for sure, like you're not you didn't
go through adolescents. If you didn't, I think he just
(19:50):
maybe I just warned him about the sort of hypocrisy
and nepotism that awaits him in the world. Uh, you know,
be wary of that and and and maybe you know,
like soaking your grandmother's more, you know, even not that
I didn't do it enough, but you know, like you're
gonna be four years old and still mishugging your grandma.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, totally grandma.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
That's a really good one because I feel like grandma's
just grandparents in general don't get the same like respect
that they used to. I don't know that, yeah for sure,
But for me, my grandma was one of my most
important people ever, and I definitely I think soaking up
your grandparents is such a good piece of advice for
young people.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Totally, Like as much time as you're spending with them,
it's not enough.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
More absolutely, But so you wouldn't tell sixteen year old
Chadwick don't come out as a conservative.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
No, I wouldn't give him any advice in that, I
think in terms of career or anything like that, or
any of the myriad of mistakes and bad shit that
I did in my life. Sorry, I'm like sorry to
mean to cuss. Uh yeah, don't do don't get blind
drunk that night, don't date that, because you got to
learn from all that stuff, you know, you gotta. Maybe
(21:03):
I would tell them to like, uh, I don't know, No,
I don't think you got to make all those mistakes
and do all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, I like that. I definitely think that. You know,
I have three kids. I want them to make their
own mistakes. It just it's so when you could see
the mistake coming, it's very hard to not say you're
doing anything about it. But it's the right move for sure.
We all, you know, grow from those mistakes and hopefully
be better.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I don't know, it's part of the adventure, you know
what I mean, Like, that's what you have to go through.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
But you're also you're you're living in New York. You're
going to stick it out in New York. Is that
like the future.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, I'm looking at I'm looking at having like one
moving towards the future where I just have one foot
in here, you know, maybe keeping a little pianotary or something.
But you know, if you want to raise a family,
don't do it here at all. It's it's child abuse
in a lot of ways. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I liked it when the kids were little. It was
just like post COVID, everybody lost their minds and everything
fell apart. But if it like I always knew it
was left, but it wasn't. I don't know it was.
It was a nice place to raise kids when they
were little, is what I would Yeah my advice.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah, I think I'd worried about them growing up
too fast once they reach middle school or high school,
everything that they're exposed to, and also not you know,
the connection with nature and the outdoors, you know, which
is something I'm absolutely yearning for, which is why I'm
looking to greener, more pastoral living more full time. But
(22:37):
you know, for yeah, it's you know this everything seems cold.
One thing that's just annoying me so much about New
York is just it's just the culture is dying. It's
just it's small businesses and the uniqueness is being suffocated
out and maybe it should be allowed to die, you know,
like yeah, I mean there's always.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, I wouldn't mind if it was just a circle
of life, you know, small business closes, small business opens, whatever.
But like I felt, you know, COVID was like it
was those businesses were murdered.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Sure, you know, back, I can't support the local businesses
that I want to because it's just ungodly. It's like
the Christmas tree at my local forest was you know,
one hundred and fifty dollars and it was sixty at
Whole Foods. Yeah, like, what are you going to do?
It's not you know, it's like just things like that,
and it's sad. At the same time, it's like, well,
they voted for it, and this is directions going and
(23:28):
it's just becoming like all the West, this kind of
just monoculture of corporate wow. You know.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, I would say, you know, there's a there's a
Miami here that is trying to fight against that a
little bit. I mean, look, we have the tech bros
and everything moving in, but there's definitely a sense in
Miami of still independent culture. And it's the only red
city I believe, in the country, the only red major
city in the country. So yeah, you don't know, Chadwick,
(23:56):
Miami might be I guess you know what, this show
is very only talking people into moving to fly.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I totally I know I've heard you, and I was
actually just thinking about that because it's been misty and
gray and forty degrees the last days and that's my
favorite weather of all time. And I'm like, I couldn't
get this, Florida. I'm so happy looking outside the window
right now at the gray well.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I have loved this conversation. You are awesome. I love
to follow you and read all your work. I just
think you're so great. And here with your best tip
for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I think that what's okay? So hmmm. For me, it's
you know, I think getting a hobby is something that's
just super nerdy and you're into, Well, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
What's your hobby? Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Mine? Yeah, fish keeping. I have fish tanks and it's
so nerdy and I'm totally into it. It's such a
it's such like an amazing stress relief, but it's creative
and because it's like aquascaping and all this stuff, that's
one of my hobbies. Guardings my other hobby.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
That there I thought fish keeping involved like catching fish
and keeping them.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
No, no, being aquarus. Having fish tanks is one thing
I has become my hobby lately. That's like my big
stress reliever minority thing and gardening. But those both kind
of relate to like taking care of things and watching
things grow and you know, which I think is a
wonderful thing. I think that that probably connects to like
the bigger piece of advice of getting outside and just
appreciating nature and the stars and other people. Getting off
(25:27):
social media, because for sure you can put some moments
in your life where you're so trapped and it destroyed.
It really does rot your brain, it really does destroy
your outlook on everything. So I think that's the best advice,
is to get outside and appreciate the movement of the
world and nature. I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Thank you so much for coming on. Check out his book, Tucker.
Check him out at Chadwickmore dot com.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Thank you so much, Jedman, Thank you such a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
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