Pacers/Thunder Finals Set, WNBA Heat Check and Haliburton Hate with Robin Lundberg

The Finals are set! Trysta kicks off the episode recapping the Pacers’ series-clinching win over the Knicks and the road that led to an unlikely Pacers vs. Thunder showdown. She also get's into Danny Ainge hiring his son, the Bucks looking at lottery picks and the Raptors and Suns getting active. 

Then she’s joined by broadcaster Robin Lundberg for a wide-ranging convo on the Caitlin Clark/Angel Reese discourse, team outlooks across the WNBA (Wings, Sky, Lynx), and where the W goes next under its current CBA.

They also get into NBA storylines: Haliburton’s reputation among his peers, SGA’s foul-baiting debate, and how the East stacks up vs. the West. And to wrap things up: their top 3 greatest rappers, underrated hip-hop artists, and favorite concerts they’ve ever been to.

Follow Robin here. 

Subscribe to the Heat Check YouTube and follow Trysta here. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Indiana, Oka see just what every pundit and Adam Silver
and all the casual fans were hoping for right the top,
like the bottom five markets in the United States, the
fan bases that are passionate but small and rabid, but

(00:21):
doesn't exactly draw the sexiness that say a New York
Knicks and an l a Lakers per se would draw.
But you know what, I don't give a fuck because
I'm a basketball fan and I want to see the
best basketball I can. I think we got it. A
couple of stories from around the league, and we also
have a special interview with Robin Lumberg from Sports Illustrated.
A lot happening. Drop that motherfucking beat that should be Rihanna.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
You're listening to the Hottest, the Hottest. It'd be a
podcast out here. I said what I said, it's the check.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Check to the Knicks. They get Game five right, and
they're rolling, they're high. Everybody's like, ooh, the Pacers. The
Pacers are the ones with all the pressure on them
now because if they lose at home to the Knicks
and they have to go back to MSG, YadA YadA, YadA.
And I even said it myself. Listen, you don't want

(01:16):
to go back for a game seven. That's what happened
to Reggie Miller in the nineties. He also didn't enjoy that.
So they're like, Okay, what's this going to be? Like,
the Knicks have swag, Karl Anthony Towns has unlocked something.
The Knicks defensively have figured out. The Pacers they thought,
or maybe just the Pacers rice cold hard to know unclear, right,

(01:40):
So then the Pacers go ahead and do what they
do best, slowly, methodically, before you really know it, like
a frog slowly boiling in hot water. You're down six,
and then all of a sudden it's impossible for you
to win. You're down fifteen. You make a change in

(02:02):
your rotation and they exploit it, and all of a sudden,
this night night's sleep mask, no cracks, just great defense,
timely shot making, and the team that was fifty to
one to win it all now as a chance to
make history as the longest shot in NBA history to
win a championship, and they I think they believe they

(02:26):
can win. I tell you what. I texted somebody from
the Pacers organization in the front office and I said, Yo,
I'm so happy for you. Congratulations, you get your flowers.
Love you. This is amazing all this, You know, you'd
think like, oh, trist thanks, appreciate you, blah blah blah. Yeah,
this is incredible, incredible run right. No. All I got

(02:48):
back in response was four more, four more. They think
they can win this, they think they can get OKAC,
and there are some reasons why they might not be wrong,
and we'll get into those second. While a lot of
people are up in arms about this matchup, I am stoked.
I am over the moon. I think this could be

(03:08):
one of the best basketball finals in a long time.
We're gonna see a team that's never won a title
win a title. That's pretty freaking cool. You have an
OKC team that has been great for long stretches. They
haven't been to a final since Kevin Durant and Russell
Westbrook were there. They run twelve deep, they've got two bigs,
they've got perimeter defense in spades. They've got timely shot making.

(03:34):
But guess what, Indiana also plays great for long stretches.
They also run very deep. They also can play physical,
lockdown defense. They also have a guard who has the
ability to change the dynamic and the game and put
the historyonics on it, put the extras on it, like

(03:54):
he did showing up for Game six in all black
on black on black suit to say, listen, it's time
for you to go to sleep. And that was actually
quick side road hilarious because we had Ben Stiller getting
on too social media and said he said, I'm glad
he brought his Duffel bag so that he can come

(04:14):
back to MSG something like that, travel back to MSG.
This is I'm butchering this. And then Tyrese Halliburton responded
after the game and he said, no, I brought a
Duffel bag so I could pack your ass up. Oh,
I could pack your ass up. Bars anyway. Pacers plus
five hundred to win the series. Plus five hundred is crazy,

(04:38):
very similar Oka see the last three OKC will be
favorites for the fourth straight time. How do I think
this series plays out? I just don't think Indiana's getting
the respect that they deserve. I really don't. Nobody's been
giving him a shot this entire road, this entire run.
Even very smart basketball experts were like, I just don't

(05:02):
think Indiana can get physical enough. I just don't think
Indiana can beat this Cleveland Cavaliers team. The Cleveland Cavaliers series,
I don't even remember. I was like fanost for the
Cleveland Cavalier series. I forgot until the second recounting what
was going on. I haven't even thought about the Cleveland

(05:23):
series in weeks. It's it's just Milwaukee New York for me.
That's how unbothered Indiana was with Cleveland. You've got Siakham,
You've got Hallie, you've got Turner right, and you can
sit those guys for long stretches of time and you're

(05:43):
not gonna get blown out in the way that New
York did when they sat out Brunson, when they sat
when when Minnesota sits out Aunt Edwards. They are not
reliant on their stars to score, to be even in
the game, to be impactful, to be healthy in order
for them to win game. By the way, what is
Denver without jokis nothing? Because you got TJ McConnell doing

(06:05):
his damn thing, you got Obi Toppin doing his damn thing.
You got my man, Benedict Mathern. They've proven that they
can handle big moments. Nothing is new to this team,
and they're playing a team in the finals with even
less experience. In the postseason than they have. Right, you

(06:26):
might say, oh, okay see, okay see is like a juggernaut.
Okay see has been proven, has has shown how gritty
they were. I'm sorry last year when did okay see?
Did they Did they go to the finals? No they
did not. Did they go to the Western Conference Finals?
No they did not. Did they take it to seven

(06:46):
against the Dallas Mavericks, No they did not. They absolutely
did not. And if you're an OKC fan, you gotta
be happy with a few things. When the Denver Nuggets
were up on Oka See multiple games down, they're down,
their backs are against the wall. Baby, in the fourth quarter,
the Thunder responded not once, but twice in two separate games,

(07:09):
with barrages of threes from guys that you don't expect,
like Jalen Williams, like lou Dort hitting three consecutive threes.
If lou Dort doesn't hit those three consecutive threes when
he was basically benched for a minute from Mark Dagnoll,
no shade uh. Denver's in the finals, not okay see.
So they have the ability to now pull themselves out

(07:30):
of these holes, which I'm really happy to see because
until you see it, you will not believe it. Right,
coming off of a forty two point loss against Minnesota,
they respond they are healthy. Pretty much, everyone is healthy.
That's a good thing. If the thunder though, have an
achilles heel, it's that they aren't that great. On the

(07:50):
road against Memphis, they probably should have lost. Well, they
definitely should have lost game three. They were down by
a bajillion and they could have easily lost Game four
if John Moran doesn't get hurt. Okay, so that's two
of their road wins. They lost two of three games
on the road to Denver, should have lost all three

(08:10):
again LOUDRT madness. And we're one and one on the
road against Minnesota. So although they're technically four and three,
they could have easily lost all seven of those. That
is something that Indiana is gonna keep in mind as
they go to Okac for Game one and game two,
because here's the thing, people, here's the thing. What they

(08:33):
do against Cleveland boom boom bam. Right, things are scary
already by the time you go to Indiana, Right, that's
what it is. You're the fucking favorite, and you're like, yo,
they just took two from us on the road. You serious,
we gotta fight, in Claude, just get home court back. Yeah,

(08:54):
get multiple games, just the home court. What is happening?
Then they do it again against the Knicks. It is
so difficult once you lose twice in a row your
first games to be like, I don't know what we
do now. I think Oklahoma City is more resilient than
New York. I think they're more resilient than Cleveland. But

(09:15):
don't fuck around and find out and go into an
O two hole now when OKAC is rocking. Because Indiana
is a very good road team, maybe a better road
team than a home team. So that's something Indiana is
going to be counting on. They are six and two
also at home in these playoffs. OOI. And also let's

(09:38):
give Kevin Pritchard, President of Basketball Operations, and Chad Buchanan
GM and Herb Simon the owner because he's important. Just
getting out of the way is all we want you
to do, you know, create stability is all we want
you to do. Your job as an owner is not hard.
But somehow these owners stay fucking it up right, They

(09:58):
just stay at getting in the way. They think they
know more than the people who have just dedicated their
entire lives to basketball. But hey, what do I know,
I just talk on a microphone. So Chad Buchan and
Kevin Pritchard deserve a lot of props for building this
team and changing the culture pretty much overnight when they

(10:20):
got Tyrese Haliburton. There's a long, fifteen thousand but jillion
word article in the Player's Tribune that Miles Turner just
put out that essentially states, as soon as Tyrese Haliburton
got in the door, that franchise player lifted all ships.
The rising tide that Tyrese Haliburton is instills confidence to everybody,
extract the things that those players do well and exploits

(10:44):
those is a great playmaker, has that tenacity and that
verve and that fucking swagger, and the front office trusts
him to be a partner in decisions for the roster.
He's not just a stud that can get you a
double double. He can get you when he assists, he
can get you thirty points, zero turnovers. No, he's the
kind of guy that says, yeah, I don't think we

(11:06):
should re sign so and so I don't think that
guy's worth it at all. We can spend that money
on so and so and so and so. So they
went out and got the quietest star in all of basketball,
Pascal Siakam, when they told me, hey, we just need
one more piece, and they did, just need one more piece.

(11:26):
And they just keep adding to the coffers, little draft
picks like Ben Shephard out of Belmont looking like the
Ai Jordan Poole killing it, Ben Mathing out of Arizona,
just making sure that they're a very deep team, which changes. Actually,
these teams like okay See in Indiana have shown the
new model. We've gone through these iterations. Right, it's the

(11:48):
Big two, it's the Big three. It's like these studs
that rise everybody. You need stars, but you also need
a couple of role players. Now it's like you need stars,
you need one guy I didn't get your buckets down
the stretch, but you need like ten dudes that you
can play heavy minutes because knowing that puts less pressure

(12:10):
and less strain and less mileage on your stars, so
they're fresh when they need to perform in these crucial
moments in the fourth quarter. So the deepest teams, so
deep they'll put your ass to sleep. Teams, they're the
ones that are really thriving, and that even includes the
New York next to a degree. They had like eight
guys that Tom Thibodau didn't always want to use, but

(12:34):
when he used them, then jel Alright did his thing.
Landry Shammitt did his thing. Winner of the Eastern Conference
Larry Bird Trophy Award for MVP's passouse Yakam. By the way,
he had thirty, thirty one and thirty nine in the
Eastern Conference Files. Three of the six games he put
up thirty or more. It's fucking credible. I also love

(12:54):
that Tyrese Haliburton thought that his little choke moment was
good enough for him to get the Eastern Conference File
Eastern Conference Finals MVP, No, sirs, just sit your ass
back there and give it to Pascal. They said, it's
my it's my ship now, or what is this like,
I'm the captain now? They did all those memes. Just
an awesome matchup for so many reasons, not the least

(13:16):
of which is the fact that they are two small
markets that have never won a title. And for me,
as a basketball fan, that's just really cool. We are
headed towards our seventh champion in seven years. And Adam
Silver's parody and that new CBA is here to stay,
all right. Moving on a couple of notes from around

(13:37):
the league. So, the Utah Jazz just made a higher
their new president of operations. Who could it be? Trista
Who did they go out and hand select the brain
trust over there in Utah? Who is just the shining
star of the NBA that they felt compelled they needed
to bring in to set the tone in the culture

(13:57):
operations Stan, It's it's who It's excuse me, Austin Ahe
Austin Inge, the son of Danny Ainge, the former GM
of the Boston Celtics, current CEO of the Utah Jazz.
That Austin age that Danny's oh icy got it okay,

(14:19):
and no shade right Austin's apparently because I don't know Austin.
I know nothing really about Austin except for people say
he's good at his job. Not here at a dispute
or to correct or to even validate that, because I
don't know. What I am here to say is that
when news dropped from regular newsbreakers in the league, none

(14:42):
of them reported that, Hey, Danny Ainge just hired his son.
None of them even like mentioned that it was like,
congratulations to Austin Ange, new president of basketball operations for
the Utah Jazz. It's like people think Danny Ange is
still in Boston. I think it's a pretty big story. Hey,

(15:02):
dad hire son again again. Austin has been working for
himself for the Celtics since twenty eleven, and he sees
the riding on the wrow wall. Baby, got Tatum down
with the torn Achilles, You got moves being made, new
ownership group. Things are a changing, okay, And Austin said,

(15:23):
I need to go where it is calm, stable, rebuilding
waters right. And so I went back and forth on
threads with another media person who thinks when I threaded this,
I was clickbaiting when I said, oh, he works for
his dad again, like classic American white boy dream, right,

(15:43):
you get you just you fail or things don't look great,
just fly back to the cool baby. And somebody was like, oh, well,
he's responsible for X and Y and Z, and he's
great at his job, you know what. You know what,
I don't care about that. I don't care because the
question is, is Austin Ange the head of basketball operations
If he's not Danny Ainge's son, probably not, Probably not.

(16:09):
He will rise and fall on his merits, and then
if he falls, he will rise again on the nepotism.
That's how that goes. Then this lady said, you know,
he didn't always work for his dad, right, He worked
from twenty one to twenty five for the Celtics after
his dad left. Okay, so let's do the math here.

(16:30):
Danny Ainge worked as an executive for the Celtics from
two thousand and four to twenty twenty one. He hired
his son in Boston in twenty and eleven, promoted him
multiple times, including to the head coach and later GM
of the main Red Clauser G League team, and now

(16:51):
he has hired him in Utah for the top job
next to his We're really talking about whether Austin Ange
is good at jobs or his job or whatever. Many
children of Importland, people in any field, become good at
their jobs when they're hired by their parents. But let's
not sweep it under the rug. Okay, let's not pretend

(17:14):
that's not happening here and just be like, oh, so
and so age Austin Age. It's not really telling the
whole truth, is it it's not really saying, hey, like
kid gets hired by his dad again. And I know
these newsbreakers are terrified of saying anything untour because they're
probably getting the news from Danny Aingel himself, and Danny
Ange would be fucking pissed if he points out any nepotism.
But a I have to because I don't know Danny Ainge.

(17:35):
It's ludicrous to me that this is not part of
the narrative. I'm sure Austin is smart. I'm sure he's
worked his ass off. I'm sure he put in lots
of bleary eyed one hundred hour weeks. I'm sure he
did all the unglamorous stuff that you need to do.
But I tell you what, it's a lot easier to
know what the road is to greatness when you can

(17:58):
just ring ring ring and call up the top guy
whenever you want and have turkey with them on Thanksgiving
and then see if there's coal in your stocking on
Christmas and pick his brain about how to rise to
the top. And no middle manager or executive is going
to give a guy with the last name age hell
at all. It just will not happen. You fuck up.

(18:19):
It's like, hey, you don't. Maybe you should talk to
your dad about this. So, yeah, nepotism played a role.
He may even be a Hall of Fame or someday,
I don't know. A lot of sons of NBA players
and execs are really good. Also, by the way, Michael Malone,
son of a coach, Eric uh Eric Adelman, David Adelman,
Eric Adelman's son, also son of a coach, both former

(18:43):
head coaches and a current coach of the Den Ruggets.
And you can be very successful, but we still see
the name and we know, hey, that's what happened. You
just can't pretend like someone started didn't start on third base.
We have to just like at least put it into
the footnotes. Anyway, moving forward, a couple of small morsels
of news before we get into our Robin Lundberg interview.

(19:07):
Robin Lundberg, we have confirmation that the Milwaukee Bucks are
kicking the tires on their lottery picks on lottery picks,
which I think is pretty interesting considering that this team
doesn't have a pick until the middle of the second round.
The father of a probable top ten pick said that
the Bucks called him and wanted to set up a meeting,

(19:27):
which is really interesting because if you look at their roster,
there's only one player who could command a top ten pick,
and that is yannessh It's not Portland because we have
the eleventh pick. So we know that. And today the
rumors were flying that Toronto is open to going after
Yannis Wo and Masai Yugieri. The GM of the Raptors

(19:48):
is committed to going all out the season and BI
was just the beginning, he said, BI was b I
was just the beginning. Okay, b I insert that on
James Ooh be it anyway, The Toronto Star reports that
the interest is mutual, is it? Joannis wants to go
to Toronto to that team that's drafting night. He wants

(20:10):
to go there with b I okay, the other guy
that loves to have the ball in his hand at
all times. Okay, And Scotty Barnes, the other guy that
loves to have the ball in his hands.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
And RJ.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Barrett, the guy that loves to have the ball in
his hands. Oh, I don't believe that for a second. Also, finally,
the Phoenix Suns have narrowed their head coaching search down
to one team and two coaches. Cleveland Cavaliers Zachlow said.
The funniest thing, by the way, he said, the Sun
search has basically been narrowing the list of candidates day
by day with a tweet. The Sons are looking at

(20:40):
eleven candidates. The Sons have reduced are listed to nine candidates.
There are five men in the running for the Sun's job.
Now there's two, and we finally know their names. Guess
what that is? All I wanted from the Sacramento Kings.
This is Zick. I know that the Sons are gonna
fuck about, but at least I'm a part of the narrowing.
You know. It's not like, oh, the Sons have hired

(21:02):
so and so. It's like we've got eleven. We've now
done the survivor thing. It's your time on the island
has now come to a close. Like what's put your
torch down? Unlike your torch, you know, damn it, whatever
it is. Whatever, you know what I'm saying, dem your torch,
he said, The tribe has spoken it's time for you
to go. That's less exciting than I thought it was.

(21:24):
I thought it was something about snuffing out your torch. Anyway,
we're a part of it, Okay, And now I know
it's started at eleven. There were eleven dudes, and now
there's two and those two are Johnny Bryant and Jordan Ought.
Do I know anything about them? No? Do I know
they were a part of a team that just won

(21:44):
sixty plus games? Yes? Do I know? They're also part
of the team that just lost in the second round
to the Indiana Pacers. Also, yes, they've already interviewed with
Matt Ishpia, so I'm sure that'll go great. After the break,
let's get nore in you with Robin Lundberg. It's a
great one. Welcome to the show. We got Robin Lundberg. Man,

(22:08):
it's been a minute. Robin. If you don't know him,
what are you doing really with your life? He runs
Robin Lundberg Media. He covers the NBA, covers the WNBA,
doing the Lord's work for SI. He's on Serious XM,
has his own podcast, and he is here to break
down some of this NBA playoff madness. But also I

(22:29):
want to get his thoughts on the WNBA season so
far as well. And if you're listening or watching on video,
Robin's got a brand new stash situation going on. I'm
calling it the multiverse of madness looking like Benedett Cumberbatch,
doctor Strange.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, I mean you mentioned the WNBA. Every time I
open Twitter or x and start seeing stuff about the WNBA,
sometimes I feel like I've entered the multiverse madness as well.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
You know what, That's a great point, and we'll get
to that, because I'm starting to feel like there are
certain topics I just can't talk about it on social
media anymore at all.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Well it's wild because for some of them, there's no
reason for that to be the case, right, Like it's
just like it's having I've been doing this a long time.
You mentioned, you know, I got a little gray in
the beard now right, I'm Around the Horn just went
off the air, Trista. That's where I got my start.
Like really, wow, I was an intern on Around the Horn.
I went and got Tony Reality's suit the first day

(23:31):
he went on TV because Max Kellerman couldn't make it.
I think it was a dental emergency that day. So
like that was my foray into sports media. But I've
never covered a.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Top Where did you get the suit from his apartment
in DC? You had to go from New York?

Speaker 3 (23:48):
No, No, this was all I was at University of
Maryland and around the Horn and PTI were in adjoining
offices in DC. I mean, in fact, I remember when
I started, there was a competing intern who, I all
is my competition at the time, who always wore a
Champ Bailey Jersey. We called him Champ, and you know,
I was sizing them up for a few days until
one day I saw him go into the PTI office

(24:10):
and interrupt their production meeting.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
To ask, oh, it's a rat for him.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah, he asked Tony Kornheizer how to use the copy
machine in the middle of the production meeting. So I
was like, I'm in good shape here.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
What are the dues and don'ts of interning at ESPN?

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, the dues back then, I don't know, like I
paid my dues right, I don't know if it's acceptable anymore,
because I would say, like I would actually recommend doing
what I did. I ingratiated myself because I got the
Chipotle orders right, Like every day I would go get lunch.
And this was when Chipotle was like new and not
a big chain, and it got to the point where

(24:49):
I realized what everybody wanted before they ordered it. So
I would just go and get it and bring it back,
and that, would you know, helped make me into you know,
a good space. I mean even even when I started
ESPN Radio. I remember the first day I got Stephen A.
Smith's hot dog souer kraut, no ketchup, no mustard, you know,
like getting the hot dog order right was the appropriate

(25:11):
thing at that at the time. So, I mean, I
think that the dues are show that you're willing to
pay your dues, show that you're willing to be a
go getter, and then generally the responsibility gets handed to you.
And I'll always credit around the Horn for you know,
it's kind of obnoxious because I'm sure you've seen it
throughout your career, but when you're referred to as talent

(25:32):
like you, I want to write it on my occupation
at the doctor's note sometimes talent or I used to
but you know, as a joke because I was also
a producer. But I credit around the Horn for the
producer mind that I've used throughout the rest of my
career because I started working on slugging the rundown and
picking the topics every day, and that helped me realize, Okay,

(25:52):
here's what's what's cooking, here's what's interesting. And and I
think at this point even you know, I would put
my stinks in that regard up against anybody.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Man Stephen A. Smith with the hot dog order. You know,
he's not eating those hot dogs anymore. He slimmed way down.
He's like got a trainer, he's doing MMA fighting him
and Mark Zuckerberg, I think, or like trying to get
slimmed down. Just a kind of an interesting juxtaposition thinking
about Steven A. Smith. What was he like back then?

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Oh, Stephen was always cool, you know he was, but
he was like, you know, one of those like cool
as a cucumber, kind of like too cool for school sometimes.
Always was cool to me. So don't don't get it
to it. I mean I did lose a job because
of him. Oh not not directly. It wasn't his fault.
But you know, Ryan Ruco and I were doing the
mid days on ESPN Radio and Steven A had left,

(26:46):
if you recall to go I forg He did his
own show somewhere and then he came back and they
put him on at at nights and I remember, you know,
we were in Indianapolis actually for the Super Bowl, and
one of the execs came up to it and was like, hey,
what do you guys think about doing nights? And we
were like, wait, wait a second. What We just got
moved to the Vin Dayes and you know, we had
the least leverage and whatnot. So got blown out of

(27:09):
that show. But Stephen was always cool to me. In fact,
he complimented me for a monologue I did about the
the Riley Cooper situation if you remember when, oh yeah,
when that went down. So he was always cool. But
that was an interesting dynamic because during those days the
space was occupied by ABC Radio, which very conservative talk radio,

(27:30):
and ESPN Radio. So on any given day, it was
like Keith Oberman, Sean Hannity, don Imus Warnerwolf, Stephen A. Smith,
Max Kellerman, Michael Kah, Michelle Beadle, so on and so forth,
all in the same the same roof, under the same roof.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Oh, you guys were all under the same in the
same area.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
The same studio.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Radio. You guys would be using the same like this
this room that I'm in now, it would be don
Imus would come in and then you would come in.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
There were a joining studios. There were like three or
four separate studios. Because there was also a time where
I was out of a job, but I was I
was still working there, but I didn't have a job
because I kept getting kicked off the air when I
was doing Maxim Show as a like punishment. I was
the one who got punished for some reason, like he
never got called to the principal's office. I did. So

(28:18):
there was a point in time where I was then
assigned to like help Warner Wolf out, but Warner got
in trouble for so something happened with Warner where he
wasn't there. So then I just didn't even have anything
to do. So I would go back into the back
studio and record my own stuff. But yeah, all of
it was you know, there was a studio here, studio there,
studio there, but it was all the same floor. And

(28:40):
you know, I would, you know, be sitting there eating
lunch and Rush Limbaugh, you know, is booming through the
speakers while I while I'm chowing down on I don't
think I had a hot dog. But whatever it was
underneath Madison Square Garden at the time, you know that
was the right above Penn Station.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Well you remember then when don Imus got into trouble
with his commentary about women's hoops and that that pretty
much ended his career if I remember, right, Is that
is that as close as you've seen in your career
as like the tension that we're seeing now or is

(29:15):
it totally different?

Speaker 3 (29:17):
You know, it's funny because, like you know, Barack Obama
used to be a controversy when he wore a tan suit, right,
like that was the stuff they were railing about. You
know what I mean? I guess it would you would
say it would be close if what we're seeing now
wasn't so crazy, Like don Imus, you can say whatever
you want about what he said and have the reaction
to what he said. But he said the thing, yeah,

(29:38):
like he said I think it was about Vivian Stringer
and Rutgerty.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yes it was yeah at.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
The time, and those words came out of his mouth
so like, and they were words.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
That and all the reactions that came from those words
were appropriate given that those words were being said.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yes exactly, versus nowadays you might say, hey, that was
a good three point shot, or your field goal percentage
you can stand to be better. It's like, what.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
That is what kind of feels crazy? Right? Now in
the w is is that they've turned someone's turned. I
don't think it's a systemic thing. I don't think that
there's like a like a body, like somebody like some
sort of Marvel evil villain turning Angel Reese into like
the Green Goblin and larking to like captain America. But

(30:35):
that's kind of where we're at, where there's like they're
now symbols for things. They're almost symbols for, like just
where you fall in race relations in America, even if
you don't, you are opting out I trist To Creek,
you Robin Lumberg, I'm opting out of that. I'm only

(30:55):
speaking about them on the basketball floor. But it's like
whatever words you choose are interpreted under that lens.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, it's also imaginary though too, Like so you know
it's imaginary because if you go to a game, you
don't hear that, right, Like the people who are filling
out the arena and buying all the tickets are not
people participating in that discourse. Same goes for the record
setting ratings and all that, and the people who are
hype watching the games. I think what really happened was

(31:25):
that social media is its own thing, and you have
to learn that. You know, Twitter is not real life,
which I've learned over the years, But a lot of
media outlets take things that are said on social media
and then boost them as if they are the popular opinion,
and then others who realize that they can take advantage
of it for engagement wind up boosting it. People that

(31:48):
have never seen Caitlin Clark play or have never seen
Angel Rey's place. You get like these two different dynamics
where on one side, you're like, you only like her
because she's white, and that's her popularity, and you're crapping
on the you know, the rest of the league, but
you need to before you watch a game, tell me
the roster of the Comets from nineteen ninety seven. Versus

(32:09):
the other side is like, they hate her because she's
straight and white and the lesbians and like and you
just blah blah blah blah. And people because they see
it so much and they hear it so much, they
think that's indicative of the reality where I talk to
a lot of fans and engage with a lot of
fans every single day. I was just in Indianapolis back

(32:30):
to back weekends, and that's not what it's like when
you're covering the game, watching the game, actually vibing with
the game, or what actually led to any of this
popularity stuff, Because if you watch Caitlin Clark play basketball,
she's unbelievably good at basketball. Like and you know, I
was the lebron James Stan you know, in the the
the way that uh, the you know, Twitter verse would

(32:51):
describe you for the longest time. But it you know,
it wasn't because of anything but that I was like, Oh,
this guy's really good at basketball, and I know I'm
getting to follow his entire career.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, and when you were in Indye, how many fans
that were fans of the Fever are only fans of Caitlin?
Do you think? Because I went to a bar, a
sports bar called the sports Bra in Portland and all
women's sports bar, and I sat next to a woman
who literally the entire her entire premise of watching the

(33:25):
WNBA is Caitlin. She knows nothing other than players that
are around Caitlin rivals, teammates, and that's it. And I'm
curious how often you think that translates into the arena.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Uh you know, well, I think it's a yeah, I mean,
I think it's a significant portion. But then they've become
fans of the Fever and become fans of the WNBA.
In fact, I would say, like the Caitlin Clark, then
Fever fans are now fans at large, oftentimes of the
rest of the league because they they you know, they
watched the first game, and Dja Carryington Zen are up
there like who's this, you know, and then the Angel

(34:01):
Rees obviously has their connection. But then Asia Wilson's the
m v P and the Feast of Collier is doing
what she's doing with the Lynx and so on and
so forth. So yes, I think unlike I've never seen
one player draw as much attention to a league or sport.
Maybe the best comparison people use is Tiger Woods, right
where a lot of people came into golf because of

(34:23):
Tiger Woods. So I don't really see it as a
bad thing. I mean that happens in sports all the time.
You have stan culture around various players and whatever. It's
only a bad thing when when the discourse is hijacked
or when people do it in a way that's that's
disrespectful or whatnot. But I think there, I mean, you
wouldn't be able to necessarily tell the difference because they're

(34:45):
cheering on the whole team. I mean, they're they're cheering
when a Leah Boston is brought into the starting lineup,
and Kelsey Mitchell and the Lexi hul and so on
and so forth. But I've seen it over the past,
you know, year or so where yeah, a lot of
people came in and they were just Caitlin Clark fans
or Iowa fans, and then they became Indiana Fever fans,

(35:05):
and then they became whether you want to call them
fans or not, but certainly viewers, spectators, observers, consumers of
the WNBA at large. It's kind of the rising tide
lifts all boats thing. And you know, you look at
the finals last year, right, you know, finals were up higher.
People always act like it's with Clark or without Clark,

(35:26):
rather than in conjunction with Clark. To me, I would
say it's in conjunction with Clark, where yes, the Clark
and Fever games are going to do better than other games,
but the other games are doing better than they used
to too, And you cannot tell me those two things
are not related. And it might even go onto the
women's side on NCAA as well, which where you keep
seeing this trend. The trend is anything involving Clark is

(35:50):
higher than anything else. Anything not involving Clark is much
lower than anything involving Clark, but anything not involving Clark
is much higher than it was before Clark showed up
on the scene.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, it's like a like I say, it's like before Jesus,
you know, like the like the the before Christ after
death is That's what That's what I see online. I
do think what's really interesting as I was talking to
a former WNBA player the other day and I called
Caitlin Clark the Golden Goose and and they said there

(36:27):
can be multiple golden Gooses. And I thought that was
really interesting because it shows that there's almost like a
I won't call it a willful ignorance, but I will
call it a resistance even within players to give her
the Tiger Woods treatment. I don't remember because I was

(36:51):
too young. I think we're around the same age. How
much Phil Mickelson and the rest of the golfers were like, no,
Tiger Woods is not golf. The PGA Tour is bigger
than Tiger Woods in one player. But it feels like
there is a very strong resistance aggressive even to say, no,

(37:14):
there's there's a lot of factors that are influencing the
rise of the WNBA, and that may be true, but
maybe ninety five percent of that is Kaitlin Clark or
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
No, that's definitely accurate. I've even been asked to not
ask questions about Kitlin Clark or bring Kitlin Clark up
in certain interviews or topic matter, which I wouldn't do
if it wasn't germane to the conversation, like, I'm not
just gonna be like, hey, what do you think about
Kaitlin Clark when it has nothing to do with anything,
but it was. It's relevant in a lot of conversations,

(37:46):
and that, to me is a symptom of what you
were just describing. And I've definitely seen it. It's interesting,
you know. I think part of it was there was
a little resentment. There's a little resentment around her popularity,
but also a little resentment where because at the time
there was a lot of noise of everybody only cares
about the league because of Caitlin Clark, and it was
trashed before that, and no one wants to hear that.
And the players were excellent before that, they're excellent now

(38:09):
and maybe because of this event, there can be multiple
Golden Gooses where Page Beckers is popular and Juju Watkins
is popular when she comes in and so on and
so forth. Where you know, that was the Nexus event,
the Supernova event, the you know, what does a jay
Z say on the blueprint? A Michael, Magic and Bird
all rolled in one, you know, And that's kind of

(38:30):
what Caitlyn Clark was, right, Michael, Magic and Bird all
rolled in one where Magic and Bird walked or ran
so Michael Jordan could fly and it was all be
like Mike commercials at that time, like I remember it
as a little kid and space jam and everything else,
which is probably the closest thing. We've also seen the
Tiger Woods, which exploded the NBA's popularity, because before that

(38:51):
it was on tape delay before Magic and Bird. So yeah,
there is some sort of resistance. I don't know what
it is exactly, but I to me, it always comes
back to her. You know, people make it about race
or sexuality. I think it's really about popularity, and I
think that is why you get some of that. But

(39:11):
I hope that it eases over time. And I do
think because of that, you see more like let's just
take Asia Wilson for example. It's not as if Asia
Wilson became a better basketball player. You know, well, she
did work on her game, you know, prove like everybody else.
But it's not like she became a wildly better basketball
player from two years ago to last year. But so

(39:32):
many more people know and are aware of who Asia
Wilson is or one of Kitlin Clark's teammates. A lot
of people like to say, like, you know, she gets
all the credit. How much more of a household name
or at least a well known name is Kelsey Mitchell
than she was prior to Caitlin Clark. And those are
some of the things that you get that are the
positives of that ripple effect. And yeah, you don't want

(39:56):
your league to be dependent on one player for the
rest of eternity. I mean, of course not, but I
do think you know, she You're not wrong. There's no
statistical backing or factual backing that makes your golden goose
label wrong. And because of that golden goose, maybe golden
geese can can be hacked.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, yeah, that's a really that's a really interesting point.
Did you speaking of Asia Wilson And I wasn't thinking
about bringing this up until you just mentioned her Caitlin
Clark shoe contract came up, we found out she was
gonna have a Nike signature shoe, and then Asia Wilson
tweeted about something her not having a shoe even though

(40:39):
she was in the midst of releasing one. And now
we've had like five shoe releases from Asia Wilson in
the month of May. We've had Malie Obama direct her
shoe commercial and we haven't heard not one, not one
whisper about what's going on with the Caitlin Clark's shoe

(41:01):
or even support of Caitlyn Clark from Nike. Kind of weird.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, it is a little weird. It's definitely been brought up.
You know, you would hope like if there was an
issue like she would raise it, her people would raise it.
I don't know how long it takes from inception to production,
you know, to retail for a signature shoe, but it
does make you go hmm, right, especially when you talk

(41:27):
about she's coming, you know, well, the plus side for
them is and this is the real thing is all
you gotta do is drop a link. It doesn't need
any promotion or anything. As soon as it happened, that's
that's the testament to what she's built and who she
is and maybe why they got a bargain. But it
does feel odd, especially in light of the whole Asia

(41:47):
Wilson thing when when the Clark Nike deal was announced,
because I don't think that helped the entire discourse that
we're talking about now, especially given that her shoe was
already in the works. And by the way, congratulations that
her shoe. I want everybody like as many shoes as
I want, as many scholars shoes, many sign draft, as
many people to get paid as possible. Like, It's not
like everybody in the NBA doesn't have a shoe. And

(42:10):
it's also not like, you know, certain players aren't more
popular for very they you know, are the jokices selling
like the Anthony Edwards? No, but who's a better player?
Does yok even have a shoe? I don't know. Did
Tim Duncan have a shoe? I guess he did, but
it wasn't moving like AI's joints, and Tim Duncan was
a better player than Ai.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Facts facts, Who you high on in this w NBA season,
Because for me, the team that stuck out in terms
of expectations versus what we've actually seen. There's a few
of them. Obviously, the Mercury are quite good compared to
what we thought maybe, but the Washington Mystics are fun
as fuck, Like, they're very fast, they have this running
gun offense. Sonya Sittron and Kiki Eriafin both look like

(42:51):
they could be Rookie of the Year candidates. Who for
you is like, wow, that this is a lot better
team than I expected.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Well, I think you named one of them, and if
Georgia Amore was healthy, that'd be even different. But both
the Citron and Erie Eurie Fend in particular have been
better than I thought at the pro level than what
I had seen in college. I'd say Atlanta. You know,
I was a little skeptical on Jones and Griner working
together from a spacing, but man, that's a lot of

(43:21):
size in the front court that other teams can't deal with.
And when you add in Gray and Howard and Pow
Pow and a lot of the talent that they have there,
I think Atlanta is going to be in the mix.
And I wouldn't have necessarily said that in the preseason
because if I'm sizing up the contenders, obviously a lot
of it hinges on Clark's health, but clearly New York, Minnesota,

(43:43):
Indiana if Clark is healthy, and then Atlanta has been
the next most impressive team. I think that that's who
I had slug into the top four.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
And in the disappointing space, you didn't mention the Las
Vegas Aces, who I think are fourth or tied for second,
but fourth in the odds in terms of winning title.
I also am down on them. Sounds like you are
as well, what do you what are you seeing? That
makes you? Meh?

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Twofold one. They lost a lot of their depth, right,
so they're they're really front loaded. And secondly, Kelsey Plum's
a heck of a player. You know, she's better than
Juel Lloyd is and so that was a one to
one swap in a sense, and they got the worst
end of that swap, I believe, and maybe Kelsey Plum
didn't get quite enough credit for what she actually did
for the team. You know, a really really good shot

(44:34):
creator and score and then you know there's a little
bit of attrition that comes. You see that with every
team that's gone back to back or made extended runs.
And you know, I just saw Jackie Young talking about
how her knee was hurting her last year after the
Olympics and everything, and I'm a big fan of Jackie
Young's game. And then on top of that, Chelsea Gray,
you know, and exactly a spring chicken either, Like, so,

(44:56):
you know, you go through a lot of that. A
tris so you lose bench, you go through attrition, and
you lose you know, one of your best players.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
If not Father Time starts to hit.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yeah, so I think it's a combination of those things.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
How bad is Dallas going to be? Because I think
last year, right around this time, we were like, wow,
the fever are disgusting, Like this team is awful. None
of Caitlyn's teammates can catch any of her passes. You know,
we need to get rid of this coach, which ended
up happening obviously now Stephanie White's the head coach. But

(45:31):
then they sort of found their rhythm. The players Kelsey,
Mitchell and and Caitlin and Aaliyah all started to gel.
Lexi Hull found her way and I don't. I don't
know if I feel the same way about Dallas. I
would hope that Erique and Page can figure out a
way to make it work. What are you seeing from them?

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, well, first of all, I don't know if you know,
but right before we started recording, Paigebackers went into concussion protocol.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Oh wow, No, I didn't see that.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, so she's going to be out at least two games. Page.
You know, also like she's not getting to the rimiton,
she's not shooting a lot of threes. She's you know, generally,
and I like Paige, don't get me wrong, but when
when the keyword everybody always used, I've never heard a
great player described.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
As a efficient I knew you were going to say, like,
you know, never heard that for like a truly great,
all time great player.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
And then they've got some players who I just you know,
have tunnel vision. DJA is trying to do too much
on offense. Melissa Smith was a liability for the Fever
last year, and and she's in their starting lineup. And
then the jury's out on the coach. You know, I
just keep picturing him like unrolling and eating granola.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah he's Yeah, he's he does look a little Darbnham esque.
Not not a lot of not a lot of changes
and like adjustments. And I think the thing that fans
are upset about is he's like, oh, it's a you know,
everybody has equal leadership. We need everyone to fill in

(47:15):
and everybody's our number one player. And it's like no, bro, no,
like that's not the case. We need you to settle
up this hierarchy. Arique is a bona fide star and
a dog not efficient. Nobody has ever claimed that she's efficient.
And then you got a Page who's waiting in the wings,
and all she needs is to know, hey, we need

(47:36):
you to take over these games. Don't defer to Erique.
And he's just like, oh, well they'll sort it out.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
Yeah. Well, I mean, has there ever been a bigger
change from Gino Wriema to that? Right? Like God, right,
Gino would throw Page under the bus right after the game,
like yeah, she wasn't aggressive enough. You know, I considered,
you know, he never hesitated to do that versus now,
Like I think the exact quote from last night was
they were vibing. That's what he said. The guards were

(48:03):
vibing out there.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yeah, like all the way to an l vibing to
in l the Sky finally get a win. They are
off to a very slow start. I am very excited
to see Camilla Cardoso get more touches. She could be
pretty dominant. When you watch the Sky, what are you seeing?

(48:27):
And it already kind of feels like they're setting up
to try to get Olivia Miles in the draft next year.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Well, yeah, they could really use perimeter playmaking and shock
creation and all that. I mean, Courtney Vanderslute one of
the all time great players, but obviously a little long
in the tooth there. They made the trade, and some
of those trades are gonna look questionable because of the
future draft capital they surrendered. I mean, the Lynks have
the Sky's pick in the next upcoming draft, and they

(48:56):
gave up a swap in twenty twenty seven, so they
don't really have direct control over their pick in twenty
twenty six or twenty twenty seven, so they're gonna need
a lot from Ariel Atkins. And they lost obviously Kennedy
Carter and Marina Maybray is an underrated loss, I mean,
in that trade that happened in mid season. But I
think the biggest dilemma for them is the fit between

(49:19):
Cardoso and Reese. Reese is a better passer than she.
She gets credit for a pretty hig Q high IQ
player out there. But I mean she's shooting I'm gonna say,
thirty three percent from the floor on the season, thirty
one percent somewhere in the thirty one thirty two.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
And she's not spacing the floor.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Robin, Yes, no, she's not spacing the floor, and neither
is Camilla, right like, so that to me, I just
don't know exactly. I mean, you can make it work
here and there, like Reese dumps it into her or
you know, gets a rebound and dishes it off to her.
But just on a possession by possession basis, are you
getting enough spacing and enough room to operate when one

(49:56):
of your players you're wanting to feed and the other
player or neither of them are a threat from the
outside and the other player is not, you know, it's
shooting thirty percent from within five feet.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
What do you think about these links? You think they
have enough to beat the fever. I thought, I mean,
not the fever, to beat the liberty. Excuse me, because
I thought that they probably should have won game five. Anyway,
I felt like the refs were calling some Shenanigans. Didn't
look like Stewie got fouled and it looked like she traveled.
I was in the building for that one. But boyle boy,

(50:31):
Natasha Cloud looks like a real upgrade over Salute, like
a really really big upgrade.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Oh for sure. And you know, like that Liberty have
some you know, I think Leoni Phoebitch was a slept
on thing last year. And still John Culte Jones might
not get enough credit. You know, you're telling me who's
the best player on the Liberty. I'd actually probably say
John qult Jones is the best player on the Liberty.
But yeah, that that that game five, I was there too,
and I remember like I raced to the postgame press

(51:03):
conference to get a seat for Cheryl Reef because I
knew something was coming. And then she said they stole
that shit from us. It was like, oh, that was
even better than I thought. But yeah, the links are Look,
they're writ in that mix. They can shoot, they're unselfish.
McBride just got back. Collier is clearly with Clark going down,

(51:23):
I think clearly the MVP favor now, So I would
put them right in that mix, you know, a coin
flip kind of deal.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
All right, So last question on the W, what do
you think happens with this collective bargaining agreement? Because I
spoke with David Berry, who's an economist covers a lot
of women's sports from that realm. He seems to think
that the W couldn't survive a lockout. But it feels
like a lot of W players are threatening one. They've

(51:56):
let everyone know that they're prepared to sit out, especially
now with unrivaled in the top players being able to
make a lot of money there. What do you think
happens there?

Speaker 3 (52:08):
Well, you would hope. Look, they definitely should be getting
more money. I mean, there's just a much bigger media
rights deal that came in, right, So just on the
surface of that, they should be getting more money. You
don't want them to get a little too big for
the britches either, though, you know, and this goes back
to what we talked about at the beginning, because all
of this, let's not get it twisted, right, Like, none

(52:30):
of this would even be in the zeitgeist if it
wasn't for Caitlin Clark arriving on the scene, and that
the bargaining power and the leverage that that brings off
of the last year, but before that, the NBA subsidized
and still subsidizes the WNBA, so you also have to
have realistic expectations. So I just would think, Yeah, you

(52:56):
want to negotiate, bargain as hard as you can, get
as much as you can, and I hope they get
a lot more. I mean that the salaries are not
high and the league is going higher, so they definitely
deserve a lot more. But at the same time, don't
be delusional about it, don't you know, don't get off
over your skis, because you've got to realize that the

(53:16):
time to strike is now, and if you halt that
right now, you might not ever get the momentum back.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah, let's move over to the NBA. We don't know
as of this recording what's going to happen in Game
six between the Knicks and the Pacers, so we'll just
keep the actual prediction element out of it. But what
I think is fascinating is Tyree's Halliburton as just a
guy as a player, how much GMS and coaches love

(53:45):
him and how much his peers absolutely can't stand him.
He voted most overrated by his peers and yet clearly
showing that he's one of them once. Why do you
think Tyree Halliburton is so hated by his peers when
I feel like fans, even just general casual fans also

(54:08):
love him.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Well, you know, he doesn't do any of that stuff
that that generally like wows you to the point where like,
you know, when you're like, you go, what's Tyrese Haliburton's bag,
You're not sitting there like it's the one legged fade
away or it's you know, a dream shake, or it's
even you know, anything specific. He's not posterizing people, so
he doesn't have and and players sometimes I think lean

(54:29):
toward like Carmelo Anthony, I feel like was always rated
more highly by his peers than he was by the
media and the maybe the you know, the truth is
always somewhere in the middle a little bit. So I
think it's a little bit of a lack of that obviously,
you know, they just kind of arrived on the scene
for the first time in the national realm where they're

(54:50):
getting that much attention. But yeah, otherwise I'm not really
sure what it would be as far as you know,
he's an unselfish player, clearly and clearly, you know, the
Pacers have exceeded what anybody thought they were gonna be.
But they were almost a commentary on where the league
is now because we're it's it's two sides of the

(55:11):
same coin, right, because the NBA is we're always hearing
like who's the next face of the NBA and searching
for the next face because there hasn't been the natural
heir to the lebron James Steph Curry era and there's
people like Edwards, is it this, so and so, is
it sgah, who could it be? But at the same time,
we're also in an era where I think the top

(55:33):
of your roster is less important than the bottom of
the roster.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Now.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
You know, it used to be like you could say, oh,
we're gonna get a big three and then we're gonna
go cook. Now every team that gets a big three
goes nose dive straight into the you know, the play
in or something like that, because you need the Nie
Smith's of the world and all those guys to come through.
So I feel like Halliburton is sort of symbolic of
that because he's the only guy on that you kind

(55:59):
of view a way on the pace, maybe Seakham to
a degree, but then it's the rest of the team
and he plays that way too. So he just doesn't
fit some of those prototypical you know, superstar star of
the team, face of the franchise kind of old because
he's he's playing it the way that you win it.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
And he talks hell of shit he does.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Yeah, not too. I mean he did a choke him
all right, Like people aren't gonna like that when you
do it, you know, if we're seeing him do that
for all of us to see what's he doing on
the court, you know Pops Pop's thing, you know, like
gotta be some of it rubbed off on Tyrenes.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
He did the like three thing that that Jalen Brunson does,
and I don't you know, over his face he did
the Dame time, he did the bye bye to Milwaukee.
His dad gotten into Jannie's face, which I don't know
what John Halliburton was thinking, because jannest is just not
one of those ones you want to mess around with.

(56:56):
Maybe it's just that, maybe it's just his his stealing
of iconic athlete moments at the time where it puts
salt in the wounds. I love Tyrese Halbert, I love
Jalen Brunson as well. Probably my favorite player though Robin
for the last or one of them. The last four
years has been the ascension of Shay and I felt

(57:20):
like he could be an MVP long before anyone was
wanting to give him that level of respect. Do you
think he's the kind of player that wins multiple MVPs
or is this it for him?

Speaker 3 (57:33):
I mean, look, there is a real thing as voter
fatigue where we've seen that come into play, so I
think he would have to just go bananas to win
one again in the short term, but he's certainly capable
of it. But he's also got this like free throw
stigma following him a little bit, which eventually I mean
when Doris Burke on the broadcast is saying, that's why

(57:57):
they call him the free throw merchant, you know, it's
like gotten into the general conversation a little bit, which
then gets into influencing voters and influencing out there.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
It is it mbidi free thom merchants. Okay, so Embiid
won an MVP. He's a free throw merchant, but no
one really called him that no one called Dame that
he didn't win an MVP. Of course, Harden is the
one that we use, but it's said in this disparaging way.

(58:28):
I am curious whether those on the air are using
what they see on the internet and and like that's
becoming a part of their commentary because it's almost like, well,
every great score technically has been a free throw merchant,
Kobe Bryant, Lebron, James Luca, They're all looking for fouls.

(58:49):
So it's a little interesting that this is the title
that's stuck for Shay, but it hasn't stuck for some
of the other great scores.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Yeah, I mean you kind of brought it full circle there,
a little bit to what I was talking about earlier,
where you know, the major networks program off social media,
so they're like, look at me, I'm part of NBA Twitter.
I'm saying free throw merchant, you know. Like so there
is that aspect. What bothers me though, where I would
go to the free throw. What bothers me is when
players attempt to draw the foul rather than attempting to score.

(59:19):
It's one thing when you're attempting to score and you
get fouled within the process of attempting to score. It's
another thing when you're manipulating the defenders and trying to
manipulate the rest to draw fouls. And that's not a
Shay Gildes Alexander problem. That's been i think a problem
throughout the league in recent years, with Joel Embiid flopping
to the floor and with James Harden trying to get

(59:39):
his arm up under people to draw the foul and
stuff like that. It Harden in particular, I think one
of the reads. Two of the reasons I think he
struggled in the playoffs and has the playoff failure narrative
other than failing in the playoffs is he doesn't play
very well off the ball, so he's not moving very much,
not getting open, not you know, running around, curling, coming
off you know, the and shooting. And he's also sometimes

(01:00:03):
looking to draw the foul rather than looking to score.
And when you don't get bailed out in that situation,
it hurts you. But yeah, to your point, it might
not be fair for Shay to be labeled that as
he's winning an MVP and a's sending to the NBA
Finals when he's hardly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
The first Yeah, Okay, so I do want to ask
you this before we go. Is the West as good
as we thought it was? And is the East as
bad as we thought it was? Here's the reason I
ask we Okay, see sailed to the finals, and the
two best teams in the East aren't. Neither one are

(01:00:41):
going to the finals, and neither one made it to
the Eastern Conference finals. And it looks like the team
that just went to the Western Conference Finals for the
second time in a row, the Minnesota Timberwolves, are going
to get measurably worse and they're not good enough now.
They're probably going to lose Nikaile Alexander Walker and may
maybe either Nasried or Julius Randall some version of that

(01:01:04):
is going away. And outside of the Timberwolves an aging
Nuggets team, I don't really know who stops this OKC team.
And I look at the East and I say, I
could see New York going to the finals next year.
I could see Cleveland figuring it out. I could see
Boston two years. You know, Boston's gonna have a bad year,
but maybe Tatum comes back in March and Boston makes

(01:01:29):
a run.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Oh yeah, I mean, I don't think there's much difference
at all. Yeah, I mean, look, Boston was perhaps the favorite.
Now they were going to lose I think whether Tatum
got hurt or not because of the way that that
series it went. But Indiana now is likely going to
beat the team I forgot. We can't do the predictions.
Indiana at one point in the series was up three

(01:01:51):
to one the New York Knicks. So you see, like
those two teams are pretty evenly matched. In fact, if
the Knicks hadn't, I think it, you know, Game one
was the real issue for them. What I really think
it is, Trista is the stars, the most famous players
are in the West, and that's not exactly I just
talked about how I don't think that's how championships are won.

(01:02:13):
And in the new CBA it's it's even tougher. But
if you're just like, like, who are the most famous?
Lebron and Steph are still the two most famous players.
Durant is probably next. Luca's right in that mix. Anthony
Edwards is the guy everybody's trying to annoint their.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
You know, j is the guy who say the jaw.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Yeah. So it's not necessarily the teams are any better,
but the the individual stars are more famous versus the
guys like Halliburton and Brunson. Who are you know? Brunson
has never dubbed a star. He had to make himself star.
Halliburton same thing, like has made himself into a star
rather than these guys who carry the the you know
face that that goes on the billboard.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
So awesome stuff. Love the w NBA talk. Can't wait
to have you on next, especially once these finals are set.
Maybe we can talk a little like current current events
in the W or in the in the NBA, no
doubt about it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
You said we were gonna talk rap before when we
were going back and forth, you got any quick uh
you know, hip hop take to throw at me? A
question to throw at me?

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Oh, hip hop take to throw at you? Yes, let's
let's talk top five most underrated rappers? Oh, underrated underrated
rappers you can say in your lifetime?

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Okay, underrated rappers?

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Black thought, black thought. I'll give you one big L,
big L.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Yeah, yeah, big L. Definitely a beast. See it's hard
to like what what quantifies or inspected deck?

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Inspected deck. You're a Wu Tang guy. I feel like
Wu Tang is one of the most overrated rap groups.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Oh in Ortal Enemies.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Now, yeah, you're a New York guy. Nobody's like, hey,
let me throw on some Wu Tang, Like, hey, serie
play just unless it's cream. Nobody's doing that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
It comes on. I played liquid swords, all right, you're.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
One of those one of those like you're you're a
hipster New Yorker like conscious rap guy, so you probably
are like the most most deaf tribe called quest all
all of that. You're like, oh yeah, ghost Face is
so underrated that one owul albody remembers Rizza the jizz.

(01:04:38):
You're like, so were you a big like Asian culture
samurai guy when you were growing up?

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
No, I found all that from Wu Tang and then
and then like my you know when I I remember
people talking about how Times Square used to to play
all the Kung Flu flicks. But no, it wasn't it
wasn't from that. All of my mafioso like learnings came
from rap too. I don't bob movies and they all
that stuff came from the the I just like I

(01:05:04):
like bars. I like you know, you said, tribe call requests.
I like beats rhymes in life. So liquid Swords and
thirty six Chambers some of my favorite albums, but the
three I can tell you the three greatest rappers of
all time. And I don't think this can be argued
in my opinion at this point. Jay Z Kendrick lamar
Eminem to me when you take across impact ability catalog.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
And I can't argue because neither jay Z. Yes, I
think jay Z goes on everyone's list, but Eminem's virtually unlistenable.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
I can see where. Look, I don't think a lot
of Eminem stuff is the kind of thing like where
you're like I got the aux in a you know,
I'm yea necessarily, but as far as like impact, sales ability,
like you put Eminem on a track, you know, all
of those things, even going back to eight or the
Marshall Mathers LP. I remember the Marshall Mathers LPI like

(01:06:03):
you couldn't find.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
A car that was a great I saw I heard
someone outside of my coworking space yesterday or two days
ago playing the Marshall Mathers LP and I was like, okay,
twenty twenty five, like all right, my.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
Mom asking to borrow that when I was in high school.
And then Kendrick. I've never seen you know, I was
always a fan of Kendrick, but I don't know if
I ever seen a rapper have the kind of year
that Kendrick just had.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
The last twelve months for Kendrick have put him in
terms of impacts, like he ended, He ended essentially one
of the greatest entertainer's career. He put Yeah, he's yeah,
he's ned Stark, Like Drake is ned Stark out there

(01:06:53):
and Kendrick is Jeoffrey and he's walking up. He's like
you see that guy, Like that's the guy I fucking
killed and put on a stick and he's got birds
all over him. So yeah, But I would say like
outside of this last album, Kendrick has a lot of
like that. To Pimp a Butterfly album was just I

(01:07:13):
don't I mean, what are we doing here. We're just
making music to just experiment. I don't want you experimenting
with my ears, Okay, Like this jazz hip hop thing,
it was just too much. I love the turn the
TV on. Like this new sound that we're getting from
Kendrick is like what we wanted the not like us beats,

(01:07:34):
Like this is what West because I'm West Coaster what
West Coast hip hop feels like the let's bring the
vibe up. And I think West Coast is all about
like the sunshine and the drop tops and the ladies
and the beach and the barbecues, and hip hop's like
hip hop on the East Coast. Like I'm on the train, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Called the fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
I'm struggling. I gotta go up this walk up ten
floors and someone's trying to have me on Seventh Avenue
and I got the crackhead out and that's like very
much two different worlds. And to me, my personality is
always loved the East cost hip hop. But when it's
nice out, I start to circulate over to the girls

(01:08:15):
in the in the drop tops and the barbecue.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
Your turn up, Trista, Yeah, I got you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
I mean it's like it's Snoop, It's snooping Dre, it's
crying two thousand and one, it's doggy style, it's you know,
West Coast. You know, it's it's Mac even Mac ten.
It's just the like the it's Nate Doll and Warren
g and like that's Mike.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
You can do it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
But yeah, exactly, no, exactly, And you're like, oh, yeah,
it's driving music. You guys don't have driving music because
you're not driving.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
Yeah, no, that's true. I mean though, like that's one
of the reasons I would argue jay Z is clearly
the best because he can do the stuff you were
just talking about, and he can do the stuff where
you know, the Ferrari to Jaguars swishing for a lanes,
take great money and a thing, right, like, you know,
that's that's whole. He's got every bag.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
He does, he is, he's for me, is up there.
I think we're just getting so old that people don't
want to put Biggie and Poc on their top three anymore,
and not just is disgusting to me, He's just disgusting.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
My thing with Pac has a lot of emotion, and
that brought it out, But I never I wasn't a
big fan of like his raps necessarily and Biggie. The
same thing goes for Pock.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
This is small catalog, small catalog.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
Small catalog, so event you know, like, yes, they're great catalogs,
but when you can only have.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Two thousand and four when we were making this list,
their catalog wasn't nearly as relevant. Yeah, I think you
got to put J Cole on the list.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
J Cole, Yeah, I think he took a little bit
of a hit in the Kendrick thing, and I get
the whole like, you know, boring kind of but I
like J Cole. I have no problem with you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Born Center is I think my favorite modern rap album.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
That's a hot take, but I would agree that it
is arguably his best album.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
So he crushed Magna Karta crushed it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
Magne Karta sucks though, Like relatives to the jay Z album,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
He really did fall. I mean you have to almost
stop jay Z's catalog at the Black album.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
No, no, that I disagree. American Gangster is awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
That's a decent one.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
I think is his best.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Yeah, four forty four is good, and.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
Three has You can say what you want about Blueprint three,
but it has like legendary epic bangers that you know,
Empire state of Mind and run this Town and onto
the next one or all on that that same record.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Yeah. There, it's just such an It's like this version
of what we see from Kendrick Lamar where it's like
I'm just gonna you guys want commercial ship putting out
some commercial shits. See see how you guys feel about it.
I don't know if it's a classic album. I still
think reasonable doubt this is his best album I see.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
I like. I like Volume one a whole lot. I
like the Blueprint. I like four forty four, but four
forty four is probably my favorite, you know, I guess
for I always put it like four forty four made
adult me feel like how Blueprint made college me feel.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Hmm. What's the best concert you've ever been to? Best
hip hop concert?

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
I just went to the GNX show by myself. It
met life. That was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Was that fun?

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
Yeah? It was fun. But the best one I think.
I if I it would be the jay it would
be a j show at it was called All Points
West Festival just because of the whole the whole setup
to it, Like the Beastie Boys were supposed to headline
and they dropped out unfortunately, because this is when MCA
got cancer, and that day, like it was like torrential
downpour and mud and all this. We didn't know if

(01:11:50):
the concert was even gonna happen. And then you had
this crowd that wasn't there for a jay Z concert,
right like, and they were there for a Beastie Boy,
and it just whole different crowd. And he opened with
a full on cover of No Sleep Till Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Oh that's sick.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
I had the whole crowd in the palm of his
hands the rest of the time. So I would say
it was that one I saw.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
There's two for me. I saw my first concert ever
was the No Way Out tour. So it was Little Kim,
it was it was Diddy, it was Mace, it was
Black Rob, it was one twelve, it was the Locks.
Who else was there? It was Usher. It was just

(01:12:33):
an insane tour for me at like twelve years old.
And then I saw jay Z and Beyonce on the
Run and it was at the Hollywood Bowl. No, I
think it was at the Hollywood Bowl. Maybe it was.
I forget. It was in LA And when he came
out and you could clear they it was clear they

(01:12:54):
didn't they were not fucking with each other at that moment.
They were broken up. It was a stop. It wasn't
supposed to be, but it ended up being the last
stop on their tour because she got sick or they
whatever happened, you know, And he came out to song
cry and it was she was standing on one end

(01:13:15):
of the stage sitting like sitting down. They put turn
it all black and then turned the spotlight on him
and he was sitting down and it was like maybe August,
and it started to rain right when he came out.
I can't see it coming down my eyes, but I
gotta let the song cry. And I got and I

(01:13:35):
was in the second row, got tickets like the same day,
last second, got goosebumps and I was like, oh wow,
this is this is like as spiritual as you can get. There.

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
You go there, you go start. Sorry, I didn't mean
to like, you know, do it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
No, this is awesome and extended take over the show,
Robin whenever you want. I'll let you. Just co host
Robin Lundberg. Find him everywhere serious ex m SI. He's
been He's been putting on for the w NBA for
a really long time before it got popular. Me and
you have been in these in these trenches pre COVID

(01:14:10):
so broke down some w NBA, broke down some NBA,
and broke down some rap. If you have anything to
plug Robin, now's your time, you know, just.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Follow me on on at Robin Lundberg the YouTube channel
over there too. Robin Lamberg over on YouTube as well,
and then Yeah Women's Fast Break Indiana Fever on SI.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Awesome stuff from Robin. I'll see you soon. Let's chop
it up again. That's all the time that we have
for this episode of the Heat Check. Come back Friday.
Many thanks to Robin Lundberg for coming on. Check out
the feed for past episodes that drop unexpectedly, like canceling
the main event in the UFC in Vegas, dude to
with seizure that was crazy? Do you never forget to

(01:14:50):
follow the Heat Check all playoffs long off finals long
that's where we are. That means download, subscribe, how your.

Speaker 4 (01:14:56):
Friends, even the ones that you haven't talked to in years,
and and follow us at this heat Check on TikTok at,
trist To Creek on Twitter, Instagram and threads Met his
new social media platform where I post every day.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Thank y'all for listening. Maybe we'll do a full breakdown
of this finals before Friday's episode, maybe on Thursday if
time permitted. Thank you and why thank you for everyone
for listening, and we'll see you next time.