July 9, 2024 • 19 mins
David Samson, former Marlins President and current CBS Sports host, joins Dave Softy Mahler and Dick Fain to talk about the Bronny James situation, the issues the Mariners are facing right now and where to place blame, plus Catie Griggs heading to Baltimore.
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(00:00):
Well here. He is a guythat we always love, and I mean
love having on this radio show.We always are thankful. I'm waiting for
the moment while I will text himand he will tell me to take a
hike and never come on this radioshow again. Weekly with Dan Levittard the
Nothing Personal Podcast, CBS Sports,as well our friend David Samson with us
(00:21):
on the show. David, howare you, Man? I'm doing great.
You'll never get rid of me thateasily, don't you worry? Well,
we love having you on, man, really do. And we do
a segment called fun with Audio.Nobody else in the industry does it besides
us. It's very unique. Andwe just played last segment You're back and
forth with Foxworth on the show.It was entertaining, It was it was
(00:45):
very entertaining about your take on Bronnieand lebron So kind of recap that if
you will, and maybe dive intomore about what bothers you about this story
happening in la It seems to methat I was on an island. But
it's so obvious, and I don'tknow why Foxworth doesn't get it, or
if he gets it, he justdoesn't want to acknowledge it. How can
(01:07):
anyone think that Bronnie James was nota calculated move by the Lakers through lebron
James, who basically did their coachingsearch and got them JJ Reddick basically said,
you're going to pay Bronnie after youdraft him a guaranteed amount of almost
eight million dollars when he's not wortheight dollars, and then try to take
(01:30):
a victory lap for taking under theleague max by two point seven million.
Wow, big whoop, Like it'ssuch a big sacrifice he's making for the
Lakers. I just find the wholething that they're doing from a pr standpoint
totally ridiculous. I don't mind thefun of drafting his son. As you
know, I'm a big fan ofnepotism. I'm in but stop lined everybody,
(01:53):
it's so unseemly. Yeah, hetalked about your quote unquote nepotism,
and you said you benefited from him. Maybe you can, you know,
tell us how that conversation came about. Well, the owner of the expos
was in a marriage with my mother, and I was on Wall Street back
in nineteen ninety nine, and hecalled me one day and said, would
(02:15):
you help me buy the Expos andI said, sure, here's my daily
rate that I get on Wall Street. Pay me that and I'm in.
And then he asked me to helphim run the Expos once he got the
team, and I thought it wouldbe a thirty day issue, and we
had a deal, and that thirtydays turned into eighteen years, and we
(02:36):
won a World Series. We movedthe team to sold the Exposed and bought
the Marlins. He divorced my motherin four I think, and so for
the last thirteen years I was simplyan employee. And I think that nepotism
is a great way to get inthe door, but it doesn't guarantee that
you stay inside the house. Yeah, for sure, And that's it.
(02:59):
And I assume that Bronni will getminutes on the big league roster with his
father, as he should. It'llbe on national television. I expect PNT
and ESPN to take full advantage.But if you think that Bronnie is going
to be part of the rotation,if he is, that's the end of
the Lakers. Although frankly, they'vebeen so bad for so long. I
don't think they've been above the seventhseed as long as I can remember,
(03:21):
including when they won in the Bubble. So I just think that Lebron has
taken the entire player empowerment to abrand new level. Well, David Sampson's
with us on the radio show.If I'm a president of the Marlins with
us on the air, I alwayslove having him on, And you know,
the big conversation happening here is what'sgoing on with the Mariners. Man,
they're two games up on first place. They were ten games up and
it's now two and their offense istrending towards a historically bad situation. So
(03:46):
put us in the mind of JohnStanton, the owner, Jerry Depoto,
the president of baseball operations, andhow far you think they'll go to fix
this offense to supplement that great rotationthey have. You know, you're looking
at a pitcher tonight who may bethe best pitcher in baseball. You're looking
at a team that's in first placewhen they don't necessarily deserve to be.
(04:09):
But this is the time of yearwhen you don't think about what you deserve.
You think about what you have.And they've been holding off the Astros,
who obviously started off cold. Butwe're never going to go away.
Dynasties don't die that easily or thatquickly. And you can ask Steph Curry
that in Golden State. And you'reJohn Stanton, you know that your market
has never ever gotten a ring,and you want it. You want it
(04:32):
so badly. And I think thisis a year where I don't view any
team in the American League, whetherit's the Yankees, the Orioles, any
of them as so far superior toSeattle. As a matter of fact,
you guys know this, I predictedSeattle would win the World Series this year
before the season started, and I'mnot backing off that. I still believe
(04:54):
that pitching wins rings, and Iabsolutely love their rotation. If Logan stays
he is a true true ace.And I think you have to add you
have to take advantage when you can. And this is a window for the
Mariners that I don't expect they willlet close easily. Well, you need
enough offense to get there, soyou're pitching can win in the playoffs.
(05:17):
So how would you evaluate what youhave seen offensively from the Mariners? Is
this more of a talent situation wherethese guys, a lot of these guys
other than Julio are on the backsideof thirty. They're just not going to
be the players they were when theywere twenty seven to twenty eight, twenty
nine. Or is this more ofan approach problem with Seattle that can be
fixed if the approach is fixed.So I don't want to burn any bridges
(05:42):
with any coaches, but I willsay this, coaches do not make bad
players. Good coaches can make greatplayers greater, and that is their importance.
And I'm not downplaying what they doand what their role is at all.
But when I'm evaluating my team asa team president, I'm not just
(06:03):
looking at the back of the baseballcard, nor am I looking at that
they're on the other side of thirty. I'm looking at the team and I'm
wondering, where can I reward thisclubhouse for what they've done. Where come
July thirtieth, when the trade deadlineis upon us, where they come to
work the next day and they say, this front office as our back we
(06:26):
are now going to go forward andwe are going to make them right about
their evaluation. So what I wouldadd if I'm the Mariners, I don't
need an impact bat. As amatter of fact, you're going to think
I'm crazy. I always want morepitching at the deadline. I want to
bolster my bullpen. I want toget another starter because I believe that I
(06:48):
will play in October. But toget through October, I need more pitching.
Yeah, I mean the offense mightbe beyond repair. Honestly, you
go out, David, You're notgoing to fix it with one guy.
Not. I agree. I've toldthat to Dick, that these guys want
to get it together. Then theguys here now have to start hitting the
baseball. And one of them wasHori Polonko, who was a big pick
(07:09):
up over the offseason, was hittingthird for a playoff team a year ago.
And he's a zero and they ownedfive and a half million. At
what point do they just say,hey, we're paying this guy either way,
and right now you're hurting the baseballteam. If he was making a
million dollars, he'd be benched.There's no way he'd be in the lineup.
Should they defa him and move onright now? Yeah? I think
(07:29):
he's in the lineup not because ofhis salary. I think actually, when
you trade for a player like that, you really wanted to work out because
you don't want to look bad.It's really hard to designate a free agent
you've signed or a big acquisition.For a drafted player. It's almost easier
to get rid of them because youcan just say, oh, the scouts
did it, or the player developmentpeople did it. But when you're responsible
(07:54):
for a trade or a signing,you're going to wait and wait and wait
and expect there be regression to themean. And at this instance, regression
would mean that he will at leaststart to resemble a fraction of what he
looked like in Minnesota. There areplayers that fall off a cliff, there's
no doubt about it. But Idon't see the Mariners as needing necessarily to
(08:16):
designate him right now. It's notlike they have a roster crunch, so
I would expect them not to makea move, though I would expect him
to maybe get a few more offdays as we head toward the break and
see if they start fresh. Butnothing will happen before the break, and
I would expect him to get sometime after the break before any decisions made.
(08:37):
David I was sharing these numbers earlierin the show. You may know
these runner on third less than twoouts the major League gaverage for scoring that
runner is fifty two percent. TheMariners are almost ten full percent lower than
that. They are last in baseball. They are also last in baseball runner
on second and no outscoring this guy. They seem to have zero willingness to
move runners over, hit, sack, flies, bunt, gott over.
(09:01):
Where does that edict come from?And can that change mid season? Because
when you're a team that only needsfour runs to win, you would think
that moving guys over would be moreimportant for a team like this. You're
giving me a PTSD because I hadfights with our baseball people over this very
thing. There is a rule inbaseball now. I grew up with baseball
(09:24):
when I first got into the game. Get them over, get him in.
That was our credo, get themover, get him in. Now
everyone is far more interested in don'trun into outs, no matter how big
the bags are, and the disengagementrule and all the other things that were
meant to speed up the game.Don't run into outs and wait for the
home run. There is no moresmall ball approach quote unquote, because the
(09:48):
analytics people have decided that is notthe optimal way to operate during the course
of the game. My view isthat analytics should be part of the solution,
not the entire solution. And whenyou've got a staff like the Mariners,
every run matters, yes, andyou ought to be grabbing those runs.
(10:09):
So I don't believe that Seattle willchange now. It's not a matter
of getting rid of the hitting coach. It's not a matter of doing anything
other than an entire organizational reboot abouthow to deal with the team that you
have, and the team that youhave can pitch, they're not scoring.
You've got to make the players change. But it's way harder than you think.
(10:31):
Well, you mentioned having PTSD fromyour days in baseball, and we
apologize for that. By the way, we want this to be a positive
experience for you. We want youto come back coming on the radio show,
David Sam sitting in with us onthe air. But you know the
role of the front office and theanalytics department, if you will, in
dictating to the skipper, maybe notnecessarily on game day calling the dugout,
(10:54):
for example, but an organizational philosophyto do things a certain way. How
much of that is out of Scott'sservices control, In your opinion, almost
all of it and I don't wantto downplay the role of the manager except
to tell you that when you thinkthat things have not been discussed, you're
wrong. Every scenario has been discussed, which relievers are available, when they're
(11:18):
going to be used, how they'regoing to be used. We go through
all situations before the game, wherewe are with our starting pitcher, where
we are with using the bench,where we are on defense, all the
different things that we're doing. Ofcourse, there are things that come up
during the course of a game,except those things have already been discussed.
Even in my time, there werevery few instances where something happened during a
(11:43):
game and we'd say, oh,we didn't cover that. So every time
you see a picture taken out havinggiven up no hits in the sixth inning,
or what Carlos Mendoza did the otherday, I don't know if you
saw this in New York, therewas a one hitter in the I can't
remember, after seventy five pitches orseventy seven pitches, and the picture was
(12:03):
taken out and the bullpen gave itup, and the Mets lost the game,
and everyone was saying, this isthe worst manager in the history of
the world. I've news for youthat decision was made before the first pitch
of the game, and the pictureknew it, the manager knew it,
everybody knows that. So I reallydon't blame managers when that happens, because
that's our fault in terms of wemade the wrong decision, or it's just
(12:28):
how baseball goes. Sometimes you getit right, sometimes you get it wrong.
When you have guys like Jesse Winkerwho hit until they come here,
then they don't and then they hitagain when they leave, or guys like
Korge Polanco who hit until they comehere, or guys like Jared Kellenick who
don't hit until they leave here.Like, what is the common theme?
What is wrong with either this system, this ballpark, what have you?
(12:50):
That you have that scenario in Seattle. It's such a negative thing that you're
doing right now because you have suchrecency. Biased totally understand why you're saying
that, But go look at everyteam, and every team has an example
of players where they got it wrong, or the players don't perform well for
them, but then they perform wellelsewhere, or you sign a player who
(13:11):
was good and then they stink andyou have to designate them or release them,
and then they catch on and makeit. Seattle is not the only
city, not the only team wherethis happens. But I get why it
feels that way because you're in themiddle of it. But if you sort
of zone out and look at allthirty teams, every single local media and
(13:33):
every single fan of every market cansay the same thing. Yeah, all
right, well, David, I'lltell you what. You and I and
Dick have had plenty of conversations.Well, once the show's over, I
get pissed at myself because I forgetto bring something up. I'm not doing
that now, all right, right, I'm not doing that because you worked
in a baseball front office. Youwere the president for a while with the
Marlins. Do you know the nameKatie Griggs? By the way, so
(13:56):
I had not met her, butobviously I know that. Well. She
said, it's funny. I wascovering this on nothing personal. It didn't
make the show today or yesterday,but I wanted to talk about it because
it certainly was not a coincidence thatshe left Seattle and ended up in Baltimore
within days. The interview process doesnot work that way. You do not
get hired that quickly without having metspend time. And it's a huge important
(14:22):
hire for the new owner over therein Baltimore. And I'm certainly not going
to say that anything was wrong.She wants to be on the East coast.
Maybe she wants to be closer tofamily. Maybe she doesn't get along
with the Mariners with someone she workedwith. Maybe everything is possible. The
only thing that's not possible is thatshe resigned from Seattle without knowing she had
(14:43):
the job in Baltimore, right so, and she said that that she wanted
to be closer to family. Andyou know, like when Ken Griffy Junior
left after Payne Stewart died in theplane crash, he got an epiphany,
I want to be closer to myfamily in Florida. I think his dad
was living maybe his mom too,in Cincinnati. And people kind of just,
you know, roll their eyes.I mean, do you buy that?
And it sounds like maybe you dothat. Katie Griggs just decided I
(15:05):
want to be closer to my family. Here's a job on the East coast.
I'm taking it. Listen to everyone'sdifferent and I've been criticized for this
before I moved to Florida, torun a team when my family was all
in New York. It's hard tobe and I'll admit this, it's hard
to be a good dad and agood team president. I would argue,
(15:26):
it's hard to be a good dadand really good at what you do for
a living. And of course peoplewill disagree with me and just say that
I'm bad at being a dad,But I worked really hard and I don't
regret it at all. But Iwould say that it's hard to have it
all and people make decisions, andI respect everybody's decision, but your president,
(15:48):
to the Orioles, if you're agood team president, you're not hanging
out with your family all that much, no matter where you're living and where
they're living. Now, that's whatI said, Hey, before we let
you go, give me a name. Give me a name that I can
wrap my arms around that the Marinersshould go get that would actually help this
offense to get to where you thinkthat they should go and where you thought
they'd go in the first place,which is the World Series. I'm going
(16:11):
to give you a name that youdon't want to see traded to the Mariners.
Don't if they acquire Jazz CHISLM.I can only tell you that that
will be the end of the Marinerswinning the World Series. God for the
time for good. Hope they reallydo. Because I want to play this.
We will play this on the airthe minute it happens. Kkhy,
(16:37):
Hey, you're welcome. Why isjazzism the ruincy of the Mariners? I
would just say that you have tobe very careful to deadline. You don't
want to bring any answer to thepicnic. You want to make sure when
you bring in people that they aregoing to fit both on and off the
fields. And I understand the needa second base, I do. I
understand the need for off I do, but you got to be careful what
(17:02):
you wish for. So I'll takethe fields in terms of that, and
I will bet on Jerry to identifya player and just remember this whenever you
get upset, if we have anotherminute. The Atlanta Braves at the deadline,
I guess it was two years ago. Three years ago. They acquired
Duval and Rosario and Solaire and itwas very underwhelming. Everyone thought, what
(17:23):
is Thattopolis doing. Meanwhile, thoseguys won the World Series with that,
and they did not win the deadlinewhen everyone does winners and losers, and
it turns out it doesn't matter.You don't need to win the deadline.
You don't need to win the offseason. You want to win the ring.
So just give Jerry the benefit ofanother doubt and hope and that it works.
(17:45):
But I'll tell you if he standspacked, I will be very disappointed.
Well, okay, but hang ona second before you go all right,
what is it specifically about Chisholm thatyou don't like? It is my
understanding. I'll be as diplomatic asI can. I think that there are
(18:06):
players who can really have a deleteriousimpact on the clubhouse and on the performance
of the team. And there arecertainly questions that are asked around South Florida
from within the Marlins organization about hisabilities to be a leader or to have
gotten everything he got at an agewhen he's actually done nothing, whether it's
(18:26):
being on the cover of the showor all the different things. So I
just you really don't need show.You need substance. Yeah, And that's
what you look for in players.That's what Alex and Poppolos was really good
at with Atlanta. It's still reallygood at that, and that's what you
should be looking for out of yourfront office. Wow, this is going
to be unreal, if I tellyou right now, this is amazing,
(18:49):
all right, David, great stuff. Always appreciate you doing this, The
Nothing Personal Podcast, The Dan LebertardShow, and a lot more. You
can find David on X by theway at David P. Sampson S A
M. S O. N.You're the man, great stuff and we'll
talk soon, buddy. I appreciateit and I'll always take your call.
Have a great David Samson with us. Tell me you're not hoping that tabs
(19:14):
You kidding me? Jackson flag thatif they pick him up, Good lord,
we're gonna break. Jim Bowden,the former GM of the Reds and
Nationals, What does he make ofall this? He'll join us at five
on ninety three three kJ A RFM
Well here. He is a guythat we always love, and I mean
love having on this radio show.We always are thankful. I'm waiting for
the moment while I will text himand he will tell me to take a
hike and never come on this radioshow again. Weekly with Dan Levittard the
Nothing Personal Podcast, CBS Sports,as well our friend David Samson with us
(00:21):
on the show. David, howare you, Man? I'm doing great.
You'll never get rid of me thateasily, don't you worry? Well,
we love having you on, man, really do. And we do
a segment called fun with Audio.Nobody else in the industry does it besides
us. It's very unique. Andwe just played last segment You're back and
forth with Foxworth on the show.It was entertaining, It was it was
(00:45):
very entertaining about your take on Bronnieand lebron So kind of recap that if
you will, and maybe dive intomore about what bothers you about this story
happening in la It seems to methat I was on an island. But
it's so obvious, and I don'tknow why Foxworth doesn't get it, or
if he gets it, he justdoesn't want to acknowledge it. How can
(01:07):
anyone think that Bronnie James was nota calculated move by the Lakers through lebron
James, who basically did their coachingsearch and got them JJ Reddick basically said,
you're going to pay Bronnie after youdraft him a guaranteed amount of almost
eight million dollars when he's not wortheight dollars, and then try to take
(01:30):
a victory lap for taking under theleague max by two point seven million.
Wow, big whoop, Like it'ssuch a big sacrifice he's making for the
Lakers. I just find the wholething that they're doing from a pr standpoint
totally ridiculous. I don't mind thefun of drafting his son. As you
know, I'm a big fan ofnepotism. I'm in but stop lined everybody,
(01:53):
it's so unseemly. Yeah, hetalked about your quote unquote nepotism,
and you said you benefited from him. Maybe you can, you know,
tell us how that conversation came about. Well, the owner of the expos
was in a marriage with my mother, and I was on Wall Street back
in nineteen ninety nine, and hecalled me one day and said, would
(02:15):
you help me buy the Expos andI said, sure, here's my daily
rate that I get on Wall Street. Pay me that and I'm in.
And then he asked me to helphim run the Expos once he got the
team, and I thought it wouldbe a thirty day issue, and we
had a deal, and that thirtydays turned into eighteen years, and we
(02:36):
won a World Series. We movedthe team to sold the Exposed and bought
the Marlins. He divorced my motherin four I think, and so for
the last thirteen years I was simplyan employee. And I think that nepotism
is a great way to get inthe door, but it doesn't guarantee that
you stay inside the house. Yeah, for sure, And that's it.
(02:59):
And I assume that Bronni will getminutes on the big league roster with his
father, as he should. It'llbe on national television. I expect PNT
and ESPN to take full advantage.But if you think that Bronnie is going
to be part of the rotation,if he is, that's the end of
the Lakers. Although frankly, they'vebeen so bad for so long. I
don't think they've been above the seventhseed as long as I can remember,
(03:21):
including when they won in the Bubble. So I just think that Lebron has
taken the entire player empowerment to abrand new level. Well, David Sampson's
with us on the radio show.If I'm a president of the Marlins with
us on the air, I alwayslove having him on, And you know,
the big conversation happening here is what'sgoing on with the Mariners. Man,
they're two games up on first place. They were ten games up and
it's now two and their offense istrending towards a historically bad situation. So
(03:46):
put us in the mind of JohnStanton, the owner, Jerry Depoto,
the president of baseball operations, andhow far you think they'll go to fix
this offense to supplement that great rotationthey have. You know, you're looking
at a pitcher tonight who may bethe best pitcher in baseball. You're looking
at a team that's in first placewhen they don't necessarily deserve to be.
(04:09):
But this is the time of yearwhen you don't think about what you deserve.
You think about what you have.And they've been holding off the Astros,
who obviously started off cold. Butwe're never going to go away.
Dynasties don't die that easily or thatquickly. And you can ask Steph Curry
that in Golden State. And you'reJohn Stanton, you know that your market
has never ever gotten a ring,and you want it. You want it
(04:32):
so badly. And I think thisis a year where I don't view any
team in the American League, whetherit's the Yankees, the Orioles, any
of them as so far superior toSeattle. As a matter of fact,
you guys know this, I predictedSeattle would win the World Series this year
before the season started, and I'mnot backing off that. I still believe
(04:54):
that pitching wins rings, and Iabsolutely love their rotation. If Logan stays
he is a true true ace.And I think you have to add you
have to take advantage when you can. And this is a window for the
Mariners that I don't expect they willlet close easily. Well, you need
enough offense to get there, soyou're pitching can win in the playoffs.
(05:17):
So how would you evaluate what youhave seen offensively from the Mariners? Is
this more of a talent situation wherethese guys, a lot of these guys
other than Julio are on the backsideof thirty. They're just not going to
be the players they were when theywere twenty seven to twenty eight, twenty
nine. Or is this more ofan approach problem with Seattle that can be
fixed if the approach is fixed.So I don't want to burn any bridges
(05:42):
with any coaches, but I willsay this, coaches do not make bad
players. Good coaches can make greatplayers greater, and that is their importance.
And I'm not downplaying what they doand what their role is at all.
But when I'm evaluating my team asa team president, I'm not just
(06:03):
looking at the back of the baseballcard, nor am I looking at that
they're on the other side of thirty. I'm looking at the team and I'm
wondering, where can I reward thisclubhouse for what they've done. Where come
July thirtieth, when the trade deadlineis upon us, where they come to
work the next day and they say, this front office as our back we
(06:26):
are now going to go forward andwe are going to make them right about
their evaluation. So what I wouldadd if I'm the Mariners, I don't
need an impact bat. As amatter of fact, you're going to think
I'm crazy. I always want morepitching at the deadline. I want to
bolster my bullpen. I want toget another starter because I believe that I
(06:48):
will play in October. But toget through October, I need more pitching.
Yeah, I mean the offense mightbe beyond repair. Honestly, you
go out, David, You're notgoing to fix it with one guy.
Not. I agree. I've toldthat to Dick, that these guys want
to get it together. Then theguys here now have to start hitting the
baseball. And one of them wasHori Polonko, who was a big pick
(07:09):
up over the offseason, was hittingthird for a playoff team a year ago.
And he's a zero and they ownedfive and a half million. At
what point do they just say,hey, we're paying this guy either way,
and right now you're hurting the baseballteam. If he was making a
million dollars, he'd be benched.There's no way he'd be in the lineup.
Should they defa him and move onright now? Yeah? I think
(07:29):
he's in the lineup not because ofhis salary. I think actually, when
you trade for a player like that, you really wanted to work out because
you don't want to look bad.It's really hard to designate a free agent
you've signed or a big acquisition.For a drafted player. It's almost easier
to get rid of them because youcan just say, oh, the scouts
did it, or the player developmentpeople did it. But when you're responsible
(07:54):
for a trade or a signing,you're going to wait and wait and wait
and expect there be regression to themean. And at this instance, regression
would mean that he will at leaststart to resemble a fraction of what he
looked like in Minnesota. There areplayers that fall off a cliff, there's
no doubt about it. But Idon't see the Mariners as needing necessarily to
(08:16):
designate him right now. It's notlike they have a roster crunch, so
I would expect them not to makea move, though I would expect him
to maybe get a few more offdays as we head toward the break and
see if they start fresh. Butnothing will happen before the break, and
I would expect him to get sometime after the break before any decisions made.
(08:37):
David I was sharing these numbers earlierin the show. You may know
these runner on third less than twoouts the major League gaverage for scoring that
runner is fifty two percent. TheMariners are almost ten full percent lower than
that. They are last in baseball. They are also last in baseball runner
on second and no outscoring this guy. They seem to have zero willingness to
move runners over, hit, sack, flies, bunt, gott over.
(09:01):
Where does that edict come from?And can that change mid season? Because
when you're a team that only needsfour runs to win, you would think
that moving guys over would be moreimportant for a team like this. You're
giving me a PTSD because I hadfights with our baseball people over this very
thing. There is a rule inbaseball now. I grew up with baseball
(09:24):
when I first got into the game. Get them over, get him in.
That was our credo, get themover, get him in. Now
everyone is far more interested in don'trun into outs, no matter how big
the bags are, and the disengagementrule and all the other things that were
meant to speed up the game.Don't run into outs and wait for the
home run. There is no moresmall ball approach quote unquote, because the
(09:48):
analytics people have decided that is notthe optimal way to operate during the course
of the game. My view isthat analytics should be part of the solution,
not the entire solution. And whenyou've got a staff like the Mariners,
every run matters, yes, andyou ought to be grabbing those runs.
(10:09):
So I don't believe that Seattle willchange now. It's not a matter
of getting rid of the hitting coach. It's not a matter of doing anything
other than an entire organizational reboot abouthow to deal with the team that you
have, and the team that youhave can pitch, they're not scoring.
You've got to make the players change. But it's way harder than you think.
(10:31):
Well, you mentioned having PTSD fromyour days in baseball, and we
apologize for that. By the way, we want this to be a positive
experience for you. We want youto come back coming on the radio show,
David Sam sitting in with us onthe air. But you know the
role of the front office and theanalytics department, if you will, in
dictating to the skipper, maybe notnecessarily on game day calling the dugout,
(10:54):
for example, but an organizational philosophyto do things a certain way. How
much of that is out of Scott'sservices control, In your opinion, almost
all of it and I don't wantto downplay the role of the manager except
to tell you that when you thinkthat things have not been discussed, you're
wrong. Every scenario has been discussed, which relievers are available, when they're
(11:18):
going to be used, how they'regoing to be used. We go through
all situations before the game, wherewe are with our starting pitcher, where
we are with using the bench,where we are on defense, all the
different things that we're doing. Ofcourse, there are things that come up
during the course of a game,except those things have already been discussed.
Even in my time, there werevery few instances where something happened during a
(11:43):
game and we'd say, oh,we didn't cover that. So every time
you see a picture taken out havinggiven up no hits in the sixth inning,
or what Carlos Mendoza did the otherday, I don't know if you
saw this in New York, therewas a one hitter in the I can't
remember, after seventy five pitches orseventy seven pitches, and the picture was
(12:03):
taken out and the bullpen gave itup, and the Mets lost the game,
and everyone was saying, this isthe worst manager in the history of
the world. I've news for youthat decision was made before the first pitch
of the game, and the pictureknew it, the manager knew it,
everybody knows that. So I reallydon't blame managers when that happens, because
that's our fault in terms of wemade the wrong decision, or it's just
(12:28):
how baseball goes. Sometimes you getit right, sometimes you get it wrong.
When you have guys like Jesse Winkerwho hit until they come here,
then they don't and then they hitagain when they leave, or guys like
Korge Polanco who hit until they comehere, or guys like Jared Kellenick who
don't hit until they leave here.Like, what is the common theme?
What is wrong with either this system, this ballpark, what have you?
(12:50):
That you have that scenario in Seattle. It's such a negative thing that you're
doing right now because you have suchrecency. Biased totally understand why you're saying
that, But go look at everyteam, and every team has an example
of players where they got it wrong, or the players don't perform well for
them, but then they perform wellelsewhere, or you sign a player who
(13:11):
was good and then they stink andyou have to designate them or release them,
and then they catch on and makeit. Seattle is not the only
city, not the only team wherethis happens. But I get why it
feels that way because you're in themiddle of it. But if you sort
of zone out and look at allthirty teams, every single local media and
(13:33):
every single fan of every market cansay the same thing. Yeah, all
right, well, David, I'lltell you what. You and I and
Dick have had plenty of conversations.Well, once the show's over, I
get pissed at myself because I forgetto bring something up. I'm not doing
that now, all right, right, I'm not doing that because you worked
in a baseball front office. Youwere the president for a while with the
Marlins. Do you know the nameKatie Griggs? By the way, so
(13:56):
I had not met her, butobviously I know that. Well. She
said, it's funny. I wascovering this on nothing personal. It didn't
make the show today or yesterday,but I wanted to talk about it because
it certainly was not a coincidence thatshe left Seattle and ended up in Baltimore
within days. The interview process doesnot work that way. You do not
get hired that quickly without having metspend time. And it's a huge important
(14:22):
hire for the new owner over therein Baltimore. And I'm certainly not going
to say that anything was wrong.She wants to be on the East coast.
Maybe she wants to be closer tofamily. Maybe she doesn't get along
with the Mariners with someone she workedwith. Maybe everything is possible. The
only thing that's not possible is thatshe resigned from Seattle without knowing she had
(14:43):
the job in Baltimore, right so, and she said that that she wanted
to be closer to family. Andyou know, like when Ken Griffy Junior
left after Payne Stewart died in theplane crash, he got an epiphany,
I want to be closer to myfamily in Florida. I think his dad
was living maybe his mom too,in Cincinnati. And people kind of just,
you know, roll their eyes.I mean, do you buy that?
And it sounds like maybe you dothat. Katie Griggs just decided I
(15:05):
want to be closer to my family. Here's a job on the East coast.
I'm taking it. Listen to everyone'sdifferent and I've been criticized for this
before I moved to Florida, torun a team when my family was all
in New York. It's hard tobe and I'll admit this, it's hard
to be a good dad and agood team president. I would argue,
(15:26):
it's hard to be a good dadand really good at what you do for
a living. And of course peoplewill disagree with me and just say that
I'm bad at being a dad,But I worked really hard and I don't
regret it at all. But Iwould say that it's hard to have it
all and people make decisions, andI respect everybody's decision, but your president,
(15:48):
to the Orioles, if you're agood team president, you're not hanging
out with your family all that much, no matter where you're living and where
they're living. Now, that's whatI said, Hey, before we let
you go, give me a name. Give me a name that I can
wrap my arms around that the Marinersshould go get that would actually help this
offense to get to where you thinkthat they should go and where you thought
they'd go in the first place,which is the World Series. I'm going
(16:11):
to give you a name that youdon't want to see traded to the Mariners.
Don't if they acquire Jazz CHISLM.I can only tell you that that
will be the end of the Marinerswinning the World Series. God for the
time for good. Hope they reallydo. Because I want to play this.
We will play this on the airthe minute it happens. Kkhy,
(16:37):
Hey, you're welcome. Why isjazzism the ruincy of the Mariners? I
would just say that you have tobe very careful to deadline. You don't
want to bring any answer to thepicnic. You want to make sure when
you bring in people that they aregoing to fit both on and off the
fields. And I understand the needa second base, I do. I
understand the need for off I do, but you got to be careful what
(17:02):
you wish for. So I'll takethe fields in terms of that, and
I will bet on Jerry to identifya player and just remember this whenever you
get upset, if we have anotherminute. The Atlanta Braves at the deadline,
I guess it was two years ago. Three years ago. They acquired
Duval and Rosario and Solaire and itwas very underwhelming. Everyone thought, what
(17:23):
is Thattopolis doing. Meanwhile, thoseguys won the World Series with that,
and they did not win the deadlinewhen everyone does winners and losers, and
it turns out it doesn't matter.You don't need to win the deadline.
You don't need to win the offseason. You want to win the ring.
So just give Jerry the benefit ofanother doubt and hope and that it works.
(17:45):
But I'll tell you if he standspacked, I will be very disappointed.
Well, okay, but hang ona second before you go all right,
what is it specifically about Chisholm thatyou don't like? It is my
understanding. I'll be as diplomatic asI can. I think that there are
(18:06):
players who can really have a deleteriousimpact on the clubhouse and on the performance
of the team. And there arecertainly questions that are asked around South Florida
from within the Marlins organization about hisabilities to be a leader or to have
gotten everything he got at an agewhen he's actually done nothing, whether it's
(18:26):
being on the cover of the showor all the different things. So I
just you really don't need show.You need substance. Yeah, And that's
what you look for in players.That's what Alex and Poppolos was really good
at with Atlanta. It's still reallygood at that, and that's what you
should be looking for out of yourfront office. Wow, this is going
to be unreal, if I tellyou right now, this is amazing,
(18:49):
all right, David, great stuff. Always appreciate you doing this, The
Nothing Personal Podcast, The Dan LebertardShow, and a lot more. You
can find David on X by theway at David P. Sampson S A
M. S O. N.You're the man, great stuff and we'll
talk soon, buddy. I appreciateit and I'll always take your call.
Have a great David Samson with us. Tell me you're not hoping that tabs
(19:14):
You kidding me? Jackson flag thatif they pick him up, Good lord,
we're gonna break. Jim Bowden,the former GM of the Reds and
Nationals, What does he make ofall this? He'll join us at five
on ninety three three kJ A RFM
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