Lance Zierlein on NFL Draft Next Week, Daniels, DeJean, Bowers

Lance Zierlein of the NFL Network joins Dave Softy Mahler and Dick Fain to talk about the NFL Draft next week, Jayden Daniels pushing to be the #2 pick, Iowa cornerback Cooper DeJean, Brock Bowers’ rise in mocks, the top three pass rushers, and safeties.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
As part of our exclusive in depthcoverage of the NFL, Your Home for
the twelfth Man proudly presents NFL NetworkDraft Analyst Land Surline, brought to you
by Moss Bay Hall, Queen AnneBeer Hall's sister location on the East Side
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Come check out Moss Bay Hall inthe heart of downtown Kirkland. Now with

(00:24):
Lanserline. Here's Safti and dud All. Right, here we go. We're
getting closer to the NFL Draft aweek from Thursday. Our annual mock draft
from Action Sports Bar and Grill andKent is a week from today. Joining
us right now on the radio show, Curtis of our friends at Moss Bay
Hall in Kirkland. That's the QueenAnne Beer Hall's sister location in Kirkland.

(00:45):
Our NFL Draft experts from NFL NetworkLance Zerline. Lance, How are you
fell I'm doing well. How youguys doing today? I'm good. Are
you kind of getting ready for thisthing to be over? Or if somebody
came to you and said, hey, we can give you an extra month
if you want before the draft,we can give no no, No,
I've got I've got so many interviewsnow that I've got I got a fly

(01:07):
to La on Sunday, and I'mdoing TV for six straight days. Not
to mention, I've got to rewatchthese players to remind myself who they are.
I think I told you guys thatlast week, so you know,
it's really I just got to watchtape on about I'll probably cut it to
about three hundred players over the nextUh yeah, yeah, it's gonna be
impossible. Actually still, I'm noteven sure how I'm gonna do it,

(01:29):
but uh yeah, I've got tremendousamounts of work this week, next week,
and then articles afterwards. So no, I don't want to wait another
month. Well that's why, that'swhy you get paid the big bucks pal
to join us and talk about thisstuff on the show. And Mike Florio
was with us about an hour anda half ago, and I asked him,
can we lock in the Commanders andJayden Daniels at number two in your
opinion what he's saying? He saidyes, and then he gave us like

(01:57):
fifteen different caveats and I forgot themall. Yeah, I was gonna say,
I'm not locking anybody in any otherthan one. I mean, I'm
I'm gonna keep putting them there inmy mock draft. I've done it.
I've done it in all three,so I'm not gonna change. But I
don't know that you lock anybody inright there at number two. I don't
you know. I still think JJMcCarthy is potentially in play there, So

(02:21):
I'm not I'm not locking anything injust yet. Well, the betting odds
have Jayden Daniels pulling away from fromDrake May for what for that? What's
that worth? But what about DrakeMay is scaring people off because he was
the presumptive number two for a longlong time behind Caleb Williams. I don't
know that anything's scared. You knowwhat's scaring him off? Tape ye watching

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him. I mean, the peoplewho were saying he was a presumptive number
two were just media people who'd beensaying that from the end of the season
last year, and they just neverupdated anything because they don't really have a
chance to get in and really watchit close, and so it's just easier
just say Caleb and Drake, Caleband Drake. But I remember I put
the tape on I finished watching DrakeMan, like, my goodness, there's

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some mess. It's kind of amess here in certain instances. And I
put a tweet out just saying,why is Drake May the the automatic QB
too? I said, I'm kindof curious why that is still going on?
And boy, I got killed onthat one by actually by commanders fans
because they had kind of convinced themselvesthat he was going to be the guys.
They were really selling themselves on him. Now it's now it's they've sold

(03:25):
themselves on Jayden Daniels. So Iget it. Fan bases have to be
okay with who they think their quarterbackis going to be. But listen,
Drake May is not. He doesn'tthrow a great time, he does throw
it with good touch, and rightnow I think he needs another He would
have benefited from another year in college. And I think wherever he goes,

(03:46):
sitting that first year, at leastfor most of the first year, would
be really would benefit his growth anddevelopment. Hey, let me ask you
about a guy that's kind of gettingtalked about a little bit here in Seattle.
Is it Cooper? Is it dejonAs? I hate to say his
last name. Kid from Iowa,who makes a lot of waves because he's
a white cornerback and you don't seethat very often now in the NFL.
So when you see this kid playin Iowa's defense was just nails. Obviously

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a year ago. And the Hawksmay have a need at corner depending on
what they think of Tarik willand longterm. What do you make of this
kid man? Well, you know, actually he kind of fits what the
Hawks do defensively. He's he isa tough run defender. He will come
up and hitch and tackle you.He's got linked, he's got long speed,
He's got some instincts. He canplay, you know, the type

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of cover three looks if you wantto do that. He can play cover
corners a quarter or other. Iyou know, he's okay in man,
not great. I think you know. It's it's kind of funny. You
talk to different teams, and someteams see him as a corner and you
keep them at corner, and someteams see him as a transition to safety.
I think everyone sees him as agood football player. I think he's
a good player. I don't Idon't know that I have him with the

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same great tag that some people havehim with the first round grade. I
think I think at corner he hasa chance to be pretty good. At
safety, he's got a chance tobe a lot better because I think it
allows him to play down hill alot more, playing less, you know,
reactive football, opening the hips,having to sprint, change directions,
change speeds, and coverage. I'dkind of like for him to play downhill

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physically, cover safety some, Imean, cover tight end, some,
cover slot receivers some and just youknow, troll around the line of scrimmage
and and bust up running games.So however you use him, I think
he's going to be a pretty goodplayer. But I think deciding whether he's
a corner or a safety it's goingto be important. But you know,
it's it's an interesting discussion, andit's one that NFL teams and NFL people

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will have because you know, itis a it is a rarity. Now.
The other another white corner that's inthe league now is his teammate from
Iowa, Riley Moss, who cameout last year, so you know that's
back to back years. Riley wasdrafted by didver h Cooper de John is
coming out with with a little bitmore Fanfare was a very good tester an
athlete, so you know, it'sit'll be interesting if we start seeing a

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change where for years we had youknow, black quarterbacks. Warn Moon famously
from from you dub who had togo to the Canadian League, and I
grew up with him as my favoriteplayer with the Houston Oilers. And now,
of course that that dimension has changed, It'll be interesting if teams at
youth level start saying, hey,let's not move this guy to slot receiver
or you know, tight end orwhatever or quarterback. Let's play him a

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corner. Let's let's let's let agood football player be a good football player.
And that's what Dejohn is. Weeklyconversation with Lance Zerline. Lance.
The twenty twenty one draft is thelast time we saw this quarterback top heavy
Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lancewith one, two, three, Fields
and Mac Jones were in the topfifteen. How do you like this crop
overall compared to how you like thatcrop? I actually have actually have a

(06:49):
little better grade. Well, okay, so I had a big grade on
Trevor Lawrence. I'm still waiting forthe fan out. I had a boombus
grade on zach On zach On zachWi a six point five. I got
the same six point five on DrakeMay. I had a plus grade on
Trey Lance. I really thought thathe would work out well, and I

(07:09):
think I got some pretty good intelfrom Bobby Slowik, who is his OC
or, yeah, his OC inSan Francisco now the offense coordinator of course
in Houston, who just talked aboutan injury he tried to play through that
really ended up it really ended upslowing down his progress and maybe doing some
damage to him that we'll see.We'll see how he recovers mentally from from

(07:31):
the difficulties he had. But Ididn't think that was a great class.
I thought Justin Fields was good,but I had some questions about him.
I thought mac Jones was the secondround pick. I look at this one
and I actually think this one's alittle bit deeper. To be honest with
you, I think it's I thinkthe top six in this one would have
been better than the top six inthat one. Maybe not as good at

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number one with Trevor Lawrence, butI think once you get to just the
meat of two through five, Ikind of like this as a little bit
better well, land Zerline again iswith us from the NFL Network. Curtison,
we're friends at Moss Bay Hall.And I think your your last mock
draft, you had brock Bauers goingten to the Jets. The draft you
put out before that, I thinkyou had him going to the Colts at

(08:15):
fifteen if I'm not mistaken, IfI am correct me, So you got
to move it up a little bit. But Dick and I are kind of
dreaming about him being there at sixteen, and three weeks ago you had him
at fifteen. So is brock Bauersgoing up? And should we even dream
for a second about him being thereat number sixteen? Well, like seven
weeks ago, my very first mockdraft, I had him with the Bengals

(08:35):
in like eighteen or nineteen. Wow, Okay, I wouldn't. I wouldn't
get your hopes up. He's goingup and up. You know the reason
I'm doing that. It's hard toplace a tight end in any draft.
And this is not a typical tightend in the sense that he's not six
four and a half to six six, he's not two hundred and fifty pounds.
He's pretty average as a blocker tobe honest with you. So the
size, when you see his bodycomposition, it's not that impressive. When

(09:00):
you watch him on tape, heis a tremendous run after catch threat.
He is very very stable with hishands, he's extremely competitive, and he
just makes a ton of explosive plays. And so you know, it doesn't
really fit the profile physically. Hedidn't have the physical box checking going on
for even a first round tight endtypically. But then the production, the

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production in the sec the run aftercatches is kind of special, and you
start to run through who the tightends are this year, and after last
year's incredible class, this year isa pretty soft class, and you realize,
okay, then if you really wantto get somebody who can make a
difference, he's going to have tobe the guy. I think when you
add everything up and then you lookat some of the teams like the really
the Jets have fine tuned some holesthat they had on the offensive line,

(09:46):
they could still draft tackle. ButAaron Rodgers. I tried to think like
the Jets, and I said,well, we ma only have Aaron Rodgers
one year. Let's give him everythingthat we possibly can to try to win
this year. Since we didn't gethim last year, and that would include
adding another weapon into the fold.So that's why I have a hard time.
You know, I don't know thathe gets past the Colts at fifteen.

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Who would love to have another targetand one that would be you know,
I would think he'd be a favorableone for a young quarterback like Anthony
Richardson. So I just have ahard time believing he gets to sixteen.
Lance the trio of pass rushers JaredVerus, Dallas Turner, Leaatu Latu.
Maybe compare those three and are theyway beyond what we saw last year with

(10:28):
Will Anderson and his draft? Arethey somewhat close to his talent level?
No? I think Will Anderson isahead of those guys for different for different
reasons, Will Will is so Willfrom a body type standpoint, is going
to be better than you know,He's longer than Jared Verse, he is

(10:50):
going to be He's not quite asskilled as a rusher. He's a skilled
rusher, but lat two, asI've mentioned before in this show, is
as skilled as I've seen coming outof college. But he's a better athlete.
He's more intense and physical than DallasTurner. So when you add everything
up. Will Anderson is just he'sgot production, he's got the athletic traits,
he's got the physicality, he's gotthe mentality right, and all those

(11:11):
guys. You know, I thinkJared Versus is the one who comes closest
to it. He is a dog, he's tough, he's physical, he's
explosive. He can stop you ina run game, he can attack you
in the passing game. He's justnot as slick with with finding ways to
get around offensive tackles a lot tois just not the athlete, and he's
got the you know, the injurybackground, but from a skill standpoint,
in his hands he's ridiculous, justnot quite as much juice. And then

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Dallas Turner's got all the juice inthe world. He's got length, but
he's not as physical at the pointof attack stopping to run, So there's
different. You know, Jared Versusis my favorite of that group, but
I think Dallas Turner goes first,probably just because from physical traits standpoint,
which a lot of teams look forhigh weight speed lengths. He's pretty freaky.

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What about Jonah Ellis from Utah asan edge rusher. Later on we
We saw him play against Washington andhe really didn't do anything against Washington,
but they had a great offensive linewith guys like Rosen Garden and Fatanu.
So I don't how much you judgethat game, but what are you making
the kid from Utah? Well,honestly, you just answered one of one
of the questions that I had toois well, but you know he played,

(12:18):
he played against a good offensive linelike Rosen Garden and okay, say
the last name centerl screw Troy Ftanu, but Fanu. Okay, yeah,
I don't have to Tom Troy.We know you're talking about Troy. Yeah.
Well, I'm gonna have to sayit on the TV here coming up
next week, so I gotta getit right now. Honestly, yeah,

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you mean two future NFL tackles andhe struggled. That's a concern, you
know what I mean. That's Ilike to watch those guys against their best
competition, and so anyone that playedpass rushers who played against Washington, I'm
gonna and offense interior lineman, I'mwatching him, and it bothered me that
he didn't play as well against thoseguys, because that's the level player and
even above I think rosen Gardens thelevel of player that you're going to see

(13:03):
in the NFL. So bother mea little bit, you know, talking
to teams about him. I thinkhe goes in the third. There's an
outside chance he slips to the fourth. But he is a try hard player.
He's a guy who does have somerush to him and and and I
think a lot of his with secondaryeffort and uh kind of a in anate
ability to to kind of get skinnyin certain instances and slip around the edge.

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But I don't know that he isgoing to be a good full time
starter. I think my grade onhim is low end starter to really good
rotational player as a pass rush.And then with lat two, I mean
he was once a Husky and theydidn't clear him medically neck and yeah,
so he goes to UCLA. Whyam I not hearing nearly as much about

(13:45):
Latu's injury history than I am aboutMichael Pennix's injury history when he played twenty
seven straight games with that injury atWashington twenty eight. So that well,
one guy's a quarterback obviously, soyou know quarterbacks are and one guy was
a quarterback and it was straight youknow, four straight season ending injuries with
Indiana obviously, but a quarterback isalways going to get the attention. With

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Lot two, You're right, Imean two years we didn't play at all
and had to medically retire, andthen he goes into UCLA and just absolutely
crushes two years of unbelievable production.And so I think behind the scenes,
teams are trying to do a muchbetter job of making sure injury information doesn't
leak. So teams who do havelots off the board, and there are
some, I think they don't wantthat information. I think they want to

(14:31):
kind of protect the players a littlebit. Honestly, I've not heard that
Michael Pennix is off of any boards. I don't know if he's off of
any boards. I do know alot too is off some boards from teams
who are very risk averse. SoI think one of the reasons you hear
more about it is because, look, you get the right quarterback and you
got a chance to do special things, and so everything that they do positive

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is going to be you know,hyperbole is going to be cast upon it,
and every every little concern is goingto be picked up more carefully.
And I think that's the reason whywell Land Zeroline with us from the NFL
Network courtesy of Moss Bay Hall.The Draft, thank God, is one
week from Thursday. The mock isa week from tomorrow. And by the
way, Lance Dick and I areat a bar, Jimmy's on first T

(15:15):
Mobile Park is behind us, andLuminfield is directly to the right of us.
And I look on the east orthe west wall of Luminfield and I
see Quandry Diggs face, and Isee Jamal Adams face, two guys that
as of right now do not playfor the Seahawks. The Seahawks cutting both
of their starting safeties from last yearbecause they were taking up like twenty five

(15:35):
percent of the salary cap. Sowhen it comes to safeties in the mid
to late rounds, I want youto give us your favorite on day two
and then maybe give us a littlebreakdown on Jayden Hicks, the kid from
Washington State. Yeah, Jayden Hicksis for me a later round player.
I think he's a player who hassome ability to I think he can play

(15:56):
on teams number one, which helpsyou which you're going to be a later
round player and is good in termsof getting downhill against the run solid net.
I think he's average against the pass, to be honest with you,
relative to NFL standards. A guythat you'd find, I think later in
Day three and he'd have a chanceto go on there and to pet for
a backup job. Demmerson, boy, I'm trying to remember the name from

(16:19):
Texas Tech. Dimmerson. Taylorson Taylor, Yeah, Taylor, there it is.
He is my favorite. I can'tbelieve teams are telling me put him
third or fourth round. I said, but he's a he's a really good
player. He can run, he'sgot great ball skills, he's got good
interception production, he's got instincts.Oh yeah, we love him. We

(16:41):
love him probably more like a thirdor fourth forget that, listen. He's
a second round talent. He's afuture starter. He's going to be one
of the steals at safety in thisdraft. And if you'd be lucky enough
to get him in the third roundor or even in the fourth round,
you should be jumping if you're ateam. So he's a guy that I
think is one that would be perfectrying to come in and now play the

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new look. I don't throw thename Earl Thomas round lightly certainly not that
in that category, and Earl wasan absolute you know, he's a bullet.
I mean, he would come inand smash you. But I do
think he has some of the sameinstincts and some of the same playmaking qualities
as as Earl Thomas when he's playingsingle high. So that's why I mentioned
the name. I'm not gonna I'mnot saying he's the same player, but

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he's got some of the same attributesin terms of how he plays the game.
So he's a guy that I thinkwould be great for the Hawks,
and I would say another one wouldbe beside Tyler Newban. Let's see,
boy, I've really got to thinkabout this when you caught me off guard
here with safety, it's one ofthe worst safety drafts I've had in about
probably seven years. So I'll haveto go. I gotta about about Kaylen

(17:49):
Bullock from US. See, yeah, yeah, Kayten Bullock. Well,
you know, I like Katon Bullock. The problem you're gonna have there,
it's not a problem, but I'vealready talked to two teams that are gonna
try to make him a cornerback.Wow. So because he's very fluid he's
fast. But Kayden Bullock is anotherone. You'd like for him to be
maybe just a little bit thicker andbigger in his lower body, but he's
a player that does have some ofthe same speed. I think that he's

(18:12):
a better cover man than he isa tackler, So it kind of depends
on what you want your safety todo. But if you want somebody who
can cover and maybe get in thenickel. Oh, I got another one
for you, Omar Brown from Nebraska. He is going to go probably in
the fifth round. He is reallyflying under the radar. He's got good
starting safety size and they played himin the nickel and he played, you

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know, in the slot, covereda lot from the nickel, but he's
got the ability to play anywhere youwant on the field. He's a very
aggressive tackler and somebody who I thinkis going to be a much better pro
prospect than maybe the general public.In the draft media are given him credit
for it because and I checked aroundwith teams and they like the kid too.
So he's probably fourth or fifth,but he's going to be a future

(18:55):
starter. Hey, lace, Iremember talking back in the fall at the
beginning of the year when Brayln Tricewas named a first team preseason All American
and then I saw him in topten of mock drafts back then, and
I was like, I just Ihaven't seen it. And then we saw
it. We saw it his senioryear. We saw an All American defensive
end, unblockable, unblockable area.And now I'm not seeing him anywhere near

(19:17):
the first round. So it's like, how did he fall when he actually
had by far his best season.Well, you always have to look at
translatable, translatable production and the bestway to do that. I remember,
you know, we all remember thehullabalo about Michael sam when he came out
of the draft as the first openleague gay player. But he was also

(19:38):
a lot of people looked at himand said, well, wait a minute,
why does he getting drafted this late? This guy was an All American
and he led the SEC in sacks. But then you know, when you
really got down in there and watchedthe tape, he just didn't have a
translatable game. He was not goingto be somebody who beat NFL tackles.
And I think with Brayln Trice,one of the problems he has is he

(19:59):
is a fi physical player. Nodoubt, and he will go right down
the middle on you, and he'llbully the edges as a rusher. But
I think once you're up against NFLcaliber tackles, and I think when you
look at the when you look atWashington State this year, and you look
at Oregon and you look at OregonState, and Oregon State of course had
a great right tackle, but whenyou go up and down UCLA USC,

(20:21):
there's not the great tackles this year, and not a lot of tackles are
coming out of other than your tackleand Oregon State tackle. There's not a
lot of pro tackles coming out thisyear. So I think one of the
things that he was able to dois really impose his will physically, and
that's a great trait and it's oneof the reasons I think he's he's got
a really good chance of going inthe top one hundred. I think the
problem you have is is he cleverenough to find ways to open up rush

(20:45):
path pathways? If he's got along arm tackle who's got some strengths,
you know, how does he manipulatethat tackle? How does he create it?
If he's not fast enough to beata guy off the edge, and
I'm not sure that juice up thefield is going to get a lot of
defensive tackles tilting. So what he'sgonna have to do and this is not
a big deal. I mean,this can be learned. He's got to

(21:06):
learn new methodologies for trying to openup pathways. In one way is gonna
be probably a little inside hands stabmove where where he gets somebody leaning,
you stab him, you get themoff balance, and you make an inside
move. So it's a matter ofgoing and finding new pet moves. And
that's what he's got to do.So it's not where you're drafted, it's
how you play, and then howyou play is gonna ultimately determine, you

(21:26):
know, the money you make andthe impact you're gonna have on the game.
Land Zerline, Hey, we gotour mock next week. I know
what trying work something out, tryingand to have you on next week.
If it doesn't work out and you'retoo busy for the little people, we'll
talk out of the draft. Allright. I appreciate you guys. I
have a lot of fun on thesefat man. You bet land zerr line
with us. He's awesome with us. Every Wednesday at five o'clock talking draft

(21:48):
for to see a Moss Bay Hall. That's the Queen Anne Beer Hall's sister
location where I guarantee you they havea smash burger at Moss Bay Hall.
Check it out Mossbayhall dot com.Bryce the Miller, the man of the
hour. What a performance by himagainst the Red Legs today. He will
join us next on ninety three threeKJRFL