November 22, 2024 • 11 mins
Former Mariner Steven Souza Jr. joins to talk about Cal Raleigh leaving Scott Boras and what that might mean for him staying in Seattle long term.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, joining us right now on the radio show.
(00:03):
We're bugging him on a Friday night. I feel bad.
He's about ready to go home and have dinner with
his wife and kids and maybe go out and hit
the town, tear up Everett with his boys.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
What you bug them? Buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I gave him two options and he took this one.
So here he is our our baseball insider Steven Susan.
How are you man?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Doing good? You know, just getting ready to tear up
the town and have it right after this call.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
By the way, at our age, tearing up the town
means you'll be in bed by like nine o'clock. Hey,
why would why would cal Raley fire Scott Boris? Take
us through that?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah? I think, you know, I think this kind of
started back if you look, Luke Weaver switched at of
Boris last year, and there's a little Florida state connect
there between cal and Weaver. But you know it's to me,
if if you just look at the situation and who
Boris is and who cal is, you know, it just
didn't really match up for me. Like Hal's a very
(01:03):
stay out of the spotlight, doesn't really like that kind
of wants to just you know, fly under the radar
and do what he wants to do. And what I
mean by that is like I think ultimately he wants
to play where he wants to play. I think he
wants the choice of if he wants to stay here
in Seattle, Like he wants that choice, and he doesn't
want to have to fight anyone, you know. And I
(01:25):
think if he wants to go somewhere else and sign
for ten million less and doesn't want to quote unquote
that's the market, I think he just wanted that option.
You know, he's a guy that just wants to win.
He said that in the media. He's He's articulated that
multiple times. I think his play has spoken for and
so I don't think he wants the pressure of having
to you know, like what Boris does is hold out
(01:47):
until you set the market, and if they don't give
you what you want, we go into the season. That
to me, just you know, playing with cal and knowing
him a little bit and watching him on TV, it's
like it doesn't really add up to me, Like he's
the guy that just wants to go out and play
baseball and yeah, keep it simple, and that's not what Boris.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Is about Yeah, it's just funny when you say that.
You know, cal Rawly wants to play where he wants
to play, And I can just hear people driving around
listening and going, well, wait a second, he should.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
He can.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
He holds all the cards. He's the player. But so
you're saying that Boris like dictates where his clients play
as much or more than his clients actually dictate where
they play.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
No, I'm not. I'm not saying that. I'm I'm more
saying that, you know, I heard this story. I'll never
forget this. Jared Weaver was in Anaheim and was offered
an extension there to stay there well under market after
he had had several good years and wanted to stay
in la and he was offered an extension undermarket value,
(02:48):
but just wanted to stay there, And so he had
to go to Boris's house and they got in multiple
arguments to like tell Jared Weaver, like, hey, you can
make more money. We were like, I just want to
stay here. So at the end of the day, it's
always the player's decision. But remember, like the cow doesn't
directly deal with Jerry in these negotiations, Like the middleman
(03:08):
is Scott so when the burbage is articulated to Scott
that hey, I want to play here, and Scott has
a history of saying like, you're going to hold out
here until we get the market value because you're worth
you know, let's just say twenty eight million dollars a year,
and kind of like, I don't really care. I want
to play here in Seattle, no matter if it's twenty
three million dollars a year. Well, when you have somebody
(03:29):
that doesn't agree with you and it's going to battle
and it's had a history of standing Trump, those things
don't really add up too much, which is why you
see things like Jordan Montgomery coming out or Matt Chapman
having to fit late into the year. And I don't
think Cal wanted to be a part of that.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, well, Steven Susan is with us, and Steven, I
guess the question really is this for Mariner fans with
the story that came out yesterday and Cal Scott is
is it three more years left until free agency? I
think it's three yeah. I think it's three more years left, yeah,
until he hits free agency. So the Mariners technically don't
have to do anything. I mean, they could just go
(04:03):
through the arbitration process with this guy and just be
done with it. But does cal Raley leaving Scott Boris
Steven in your opinion, improve or does it impair or
make no difference when it comes to the Mariner chances
of keeping this guy around long term?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
No, it absolutely improved. Right, Like, I think the baseball
industry understands that one thing that players don't typically do
with Scott Boris's sign extensions unless you're getting like I said,
this is Scott Morris's hanging. His calling is you will
get fair market value or set the market. And so
when you leave Scott Boris, other agents don't operate that way.
(04:44):
They want to get you what you want at a
fair market value unless you speak otherwise. Because what it
is is the agent works for the player. And so
in this situation with an extension at hand, Boris is
typically going to say, just wait, just wait for freez.
You're going to make this much in arbitration and you're
going to get that home made up at the back end.
(05:04):
That's his pitch. I've been in that room with Boris.
He's trying to convince me, and that's his pitch. And
so Cal's just saying, like, I want to actually have
a conversation where I'm not fighting you, and maybe I
do want to stay in Seattle. And I think it
rose greatly with this move right here.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Wow, why should Cal want to play here, particularly in
this park with a franchise that has shown his entire
career that they are completely unable to surround him with
offensive talent.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, I mean it's a fantastic question. And you know,
I think you got to love about this guy is
he just doesn't care about that, Like he just wants
to go play. He'll take the whole pressure on his shoulders.
We've seen him do it in multiple moments and go
out and perform. And I think he's very loved in
this city. I mean the city has just absolutely rallied
around him, and from that homery hit against Oakland and
(05:58):
sending the Mariners to the play plays to just his
personality to him speaking out saying I want to win,
Like there's so much to love about this guy that
the fans have really rallied around him, and leaving a
place like that is hard. You have to go start
over in a new place and create a new fan
base and get a whole new reputation. So on top
of that, I know that they haven't built around him
and brought in players, but Calahead has really built some
(06:20):
good relationships inside that locker room with staff and players,
and I think his voice as he gets older is
really going to grow even more and more. He's already
respected throughout the league. He's already respected in that clubhouse tremendously.
He's got a great relationship with Dan and so I
think all those play in his favor despite the marin
his inability to go out and get people to help
(06:43):
us around him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Well, Steven Susan Junior is with us on the radio show,
and look, I think a lot of people just assumed
and you kind of, you know, confirmed it that not
having Scott Borris, you know, in the in the way
improves the Marion rodds of resigning Cayle Riley. When do
you think they'll do that? Let me just get two
part question, because Dick, I think it's right that he's
Nice's got three more years left until he's a free
(07:05):
agent in twenty twenty eight, so three more years go
through the arbitration process, or they can do what the
Mariners have done before. They did it with Alex Rodriguez,
where they would just buy out years of arbitration and
sign the guy to a contract. Do we know when
the last contract offer was made by the Mariners?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
First of all, Yeah, A sources tell me that it
was in spring training of last year that was offered
a deal coming off of the thirty home run season
that he had, And I'm fairly certain that he hasn't
been offered anything since then. Now, that could have changed
over the last couple of weeks, even though the season
(07:44):
has ended. But that being said, I agree with you,
there's multiple ways to kind of extend him. You can
extend him through your arbitration years, like they're trying to say,
in which you can spread out even lee how much
he makes in each of those instead of going really
low to really high in the end if he continues
this progress or what you can do is, you know,
(08:06):
extend them beyond his arbitration years and then spread it
out even more so it's not as big of a
hit to the payroll. I think where the Mariners are
going to have to juggle is they've got Logan Gilbert
in this same ballpark. They're going to have George Kirby
in this same ballpark, and they're gonna have to pick
and choose who they want to do now. Is Cal priority? Absolutely?
They don't have anybody else this year in the top
twelve of the MVP voting and the guy that's won the
(08:28):
Platinum Glove and voted for Silver Slugger. So I think
this is a major priority to get this guy. What
he means is this game sign and the legitimate extension
offer and not kind of low ball them. But you
have two options. Either buy out those rbs like you're saying,
or extend them and try and dilute that money over
a longer period of time.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, and Steven, I think we've asked you this before,
but for those that didn't hear, I mean Cal Rawley's
going to be twenty eight on Tuesday. His birthday is
this coming Tuesday. So if he waits until he's a
free agents to hit the market, see what's out there,
get it bidding, We're going he's going to be thirty
one years old. I mean, if you're Cal Rowley, do
(09:07):
you really want to wait until you're thirty one or
do you want to get your name to paper on
as fat a contract as quickly as you can, right now.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, that's the game that you play, right, And I
think the average age for free agency is thirty one
thirty two. Players typically become free agents right around thirty
one thirty two years old. You know, you obviously have
these anomaly situations where guys are super young they've break
into the league, like Julio and Juan Soto and even
Fernando's tatists. But typically guys they view their age around
(09:40):
twenty four to twenty five years old and hit ragency
around thirty one. So, you know, I think he can
play either one, right, And what where I would say
is he's been hurt a lot, like and he's played
through some injuries. I think that he's kind of communicated,
and so it's just a matter of where he feels
like what's the risk reward here? Right? And that's the
(10:01):
game they got to play, is how much does he
mean to the Mariners? How much do I want to
risk trying to get the free agency and juggle that?
And so if you know, I can never speak for
a player in that situation. I turned down an extension
myself and it didn't work out for me. But you know,
hindsight's obviously twenty twenty. He could have three more years
of thirty and he's gonna get paid thirty million a
(10:22):
year for the next four years and make it all up.
But you know, it's just a matter of that security,
how much it's worked to you.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Finally, Steven, what's the gut tell you on timing of
free agent acquisitions and trades by this team in the offseason.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean they've been pretty you know, open that
they're not going to go get a big fish, right,
so I think they're going to try and wait for
the market and to settle in and see who's left
over and try and thread the needle. I know that
I've seen some some rumors about labor Torres and some
second base pieces, and you know, their outfields clearly said
(11:00):
their rotations clearly said you got Matt Brash coming back,
so that their bullpens pretty much set, you know, not
to sit there at a piece or two. But they've
really got like three positions that they're focused in on them.
They can go kind of, you know, hopefully spend a
little bit more to raise the market up. You know.
That being said, we know Jerry likes the trade, so
(11:22):
I wouldn't be surprised if we see some trades come
together and then he capitalizes on the market of regency,
probably somewhere close to the winter meetings.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Are after all right, go have fun and every baby
tear it up. Man, Stay safe out there. Those those
are some mean streets, Pal, all.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Right, that's right, that's right. I'll walk in the streets
of Hewett very safely before you saw me. Yeah done.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
All right, man, enjoy the weekend. We'll talk soon. Have
a good Thanksgiving Pal, appreciated, Boddy.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
All right, guys, you two take care of
All right, joining us right now on the radio show.
(00:03):
We're bugging him on a Friday night. I feel bad.
He's about ready to go home and have dinner with
his wife and kids and maybe go out and hit
the town, tear up Everett with his boys.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
What you bug them? Buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I gave him two options and he took this one.
So here he is our our baseball insider Steven Susan.
How are you man?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Doing good? You know, just getting ready to tear up
the town and have it right after this call.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
By the way, at our age, tearing up the town
means you'll be in bed by like nine o'clock. Hey,
why would why would cal Raley fire Scott Boris? Take
us through that?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah? I think, you know, I think this kind of
started back if you look, Luke Weaver switched at of
Boris last year, and there's a little Florida state connect
there between cal and Weaver. But you know it's to me,
if if you just look at the situation and who
Boris is and who cal is, you know, it just
didn't really match up for me. Like Hal's a very
(01:03):
stay out of the spotlight, doesn't really like that kind
of wants to just you know, fly under the radar
and do what he wants to do. And what I
mean by that is like I think ultimately he wants
to play where he wants to play. I think he
wants the choice of if he wants to stay here
in Seattle, Like he wants that choice, and he doesn't
want to have to fight anyone, you know. And I
(01:25):
think if he wants to go somewhere else and sign
for ten million less and doesn't want to quote unquote
that's the market, I think he just wanted that option.
You know, he's a guy that just wants to win.
He said that in the media. He's He's articulated that
multiple times. I think his play has spoken for and
so I don't think he wants the pressure of having
to you know, like what Boris does is hold out
(01:47):
until you set the market, and if they don't give
you what you want, we go into the season. That
to me, just you know, playing with cal and knowing
him a little bit and watching him on TV, it's
like it doesn't really add up to me, Like he's
the guy that just wants to go out and play
baseball and yeah, keep it simple, and that's not what Boris.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Is about Yeah, it's just funny when you say that.
You know, cal Rawly wants to play where he wants
to play, And I can just hear people driving around
listening and going, well, wait a second, he should.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
He can.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
He holds all the cards. He's the player. But so
you're saying that Boris like dictates where his clients play
as much or more than his clients actually dictate where
they play.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
No, I'm not. I'm not saying that. I'm I'm more
saying that, you know, I heard this story. I'll never
forget this. Jared Weaver was in Anaheim and was offered
an extension there to stay there well under market after
he had had several good years and wanted to stay
in la and he was offered an extension undermarket value,
(02:48):
but just wanted to stay there, And so he had
to go to Boris's house and they got in multiple
arguments to like tell Jared Weaver, like, hey, you can
make more money. We were like, I just want to
stay here. So at the end of the day, it's
always the player's decision. But remember, like the cow doesn't
directly deal with Jerry in these negotiations, Like the middleman
(03:08):
is Scott so when the burbage is articulated to Scott
that hey, I want to play here, and Scott has
a history of saying like, you're going to hold out
here until we get the market value because you're worth
you know, let's just say twenty eight million dollars a year,
and kind of like, I don't really care. I want
to play here in Seattle, no matter if it's twenty
three million dollars a year. Well, when you have somebody
(03:29):
that doesn't agree with you and it's going to battle
and it's had a history of standing Trump, those things
don't really add up too much, which is why you
see things like Jordan Montgomery coming out or Matt Chapman
having to fit late into the year. And I don't
think Cal wanted to be a part of that.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, well, Steven Susan is with us, and Steven, I
guess the question really is this for Mariner fans with
the story that came out yesterday and Cal Scott is
is it three more years left until free agency? I
think it's three yeah. I think it's three more years left, yeah,
until he hits free agency. So the Mariners technically don't
have to do anything. I mean, they could just go
(04:03):
through the arbitration process with this guy and just be
done with it. But does cal Raley leaving Scott Boris
Steven in your opinion, improve or does it impair or
make no difference when it comes to the Mariner chances
of keeping this guy around long term?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
No, it absolutely improved. Right, Like, I think the baseball
industry understands that one thing that players don't typically do
with Scott Boris's sign extensions unless you're getting like I said,
this is Scott Morris's hanging. His calling is you will
get fair market value or set the market. And so
when you leave Scott Boris, other agents don't operate that way.
(04:44):
They want to get you what you want at a
fair market value unless you speak otherwise. Because what it
is is the agent works for the player. And so
in this situation with an extension at hand, Boris is
typically going to say, just wait, just wait for freez.
You're going to make this much in arbitration and you're
going to get that home made up at the back end.
(05:04):
That's his pitch. I've been in that room with Boris.
He's trying to convince me, and that's his pitch. And
so Cal's just saying, like, I want to actually have
a conversation where I'm not fighting you, and maybe I
do want to stay in Seattle. And I think it
rose greatly with this move right here.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Wow, why should Cal want to play here, particularly in
this park with a franchise that has shown his entire
career that they are completely unable to surround him with
offensive talent.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, I mean it's a fantastic question. And you know,
I think you got to love about this guy is
he just doesn't care about that, Like he just wants
to go play. He'll take the whole pressure on his shoulders.
We've seen him do it in multiple moments and go
out and perform. And I think he's very loved in
this city. I mean the city has just absolutely rallied
around him, and from that homery hit against Oakland and
(05:58):
sending the Mariners to the play plays to just his
personality to him speaking out saying I want to win,
Like there's so much to love about this guy that
the fans have really rallied around him, and leaving a
place like that is hard. You have to go start
over in a new place and create a new fan
base and get a whole new reputation. So on top
of that, I know that they haven't built around him
and brought in players, but Calahead has really built some
(06:20):
good relationships inside that locker room with staff and players,
and I think his voice as he gets older is
really going to grow even more and more. He's already
respected throughout the league. He's already respected in that clubhouse tremendously.
He's got a great relationship with Dan and so I
think all those play in his favor despite the marin
his inability to go out and get people to help
(06:43):
us around him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Well, Steven Susan Junior is with us on the radio show,
and look, I think a lot of people just assumed
and you kind of, you know, confirmed it that not
having Scott Borris, you know, in the in the way
improves the Marion rodds of resigning Cayle Riley. When do
you think they'll do that? Let me just get two
part question, because Dick, I think it's right that he's
Nice's got three more years left until he's a free
(07:05):
agent in twenty twenty eight, so three more years go
through the arbitration process, or they can do what the
Mariners have done before. They did it with Alex Rodriguez,
where they would just buy out years of arbitration and
sign the guy to a contract. Do we know when
the last contract offer was made by the Mariners?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
First of all, Yeah, A sources tell me that it
was in spring training of last year that was offered
a deal coming off of the thirty home run season
that he had, And I'm fairly certain that he hasn't
been offered anything since then. Now, that could have changed
over the last couple of weeks, even though the season
(07:44):
has ended. But that being said, I agree with you,
there's multiple ways to kind of extend him. You can
extend him through your arbitration years, like they're trying to say,
in which you can spread out even lee how much
he makes in each of those instead of going really
low to really high in the end if he continues
this progress or what you can do is, you know,
(08:06):
extend them beyond his arbitration years and then spread it
out even more so it's not as big of a
hit to the payroll. I think where the Mariners are
going to have to juggle is they've got Logan Gilbert
in this same ballpark. They're going to have George Kirby
in this same ballpark, and they're gonna have to pick
and choose who they want to do now. Is Cal priority? Absolutely?
They don't have anybody else this year in the top
twelve of the MVP voting and the guy that's won the
(08:28):
Platinum Glove and voted for Silver Slugger. So I think
this is a major priority to get this guy. What
he means is this game sign and the legitimate extension
offer and not kind of low ball them. But you
have two options. Either buy out those rbs like you're saying,
or extend them and try and dilute that money over
a longer period of time.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, and Steven, I think we've asked you this before,
but for those that didn't hear, I mean Cal Rawley's
going to be twenty eight on Tuesday. His birthday is
this coming Tuesday. So if he waits until he's a
free agents to hit the market, see what's out there,
get it bidding, We're going he's going to be thirty
one years old. I mean, if you're Cal Rowley, do
(09:07):
you really want to wait until you're thirty one or
do you want to get your name to paper on
as fat a contract as quickly as you can, right now.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, that's the game that you play, right, And I
think the average age for free agency is thirty one
thirty two. Players typically become free agents right around thirty
one thirty two years old. You know, you obviously have
these anomaly situations where guys are super young they've break
into the league, like Julio and Juan Soto and even
Fernando's tatists. But typically guys they view their age around
(09:40):
twenty four to twenty five years old and hit ragency
around thirty one. So, you know, I think he can
play either one, right, And what where I would say
is he's been hurt a lot, like and he's played
through some injuries. I think that he's kind of communicated,
and so it's just a matter of where he feels
like what's the risk reward here? Right? And that's the
(10:01):
game they got to play, is how much does he
mean to the Mariners? How much do I want to
risk trying to get the free agency and juggle that?
And so if you know, I can never speak for
a player in that situation. I turned down an extension
myself and it didn't work out for me. But you know,
hindsight's obviously twenty twenty. He could have three more years
of thirty and he's gonna get paid thirty million a
(10:22):
year for the next four years and make it all up.
But you know, it's just a matter of that security,
how much it's worked to you.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Finally, Steven, what's the gut tell you on timing of
free agent acquisitions and trades by this team in the offseason.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean they've been pretty you know, open that
they're not going to go get a big fish, right,
so I think they're going to try and wait for
the market and to settle in and see who's left
over and try and thread the needle. I know that
I've seen some some rumors about labor Torres and some
second base pieces, and you know, their outfields clearly said
(11:00):
their rotations clearly said you got Matt Brash coming back,
so that their bullpens pretty much set, you know, not
to sit there at a piece or two. But they've
really got like three positions that they're focused in on them.
They can go kind of, you know, hopefully spend a
little bit more to raise the market up. You know.
That being said, we know Jerry likes the trade, so
(11:22):
I wouldn't be surprised if we see some trades come
together and then he capitalizes on the market of regency,
probably somewhere close to the winter meetings.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Are after all right, go have fun and every baby
tear it up. Man, Stay safe out there. Those those
are some mean streets, Pal, all.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Right, that's right, that's right. I'll walk in the streets
of Hewett very safely before you saw me. Yeah done.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
All right, man, enjoy the weekend. We'll talk soon. Have
a good Thanksgiving Pal, appreciated, Boddy.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
All right, guys, you two take care of
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.