Blake Snell and More Reaction to Suarez Trade.

Chuck Powell and Anders HIrst give an update on Shohei Ohtani, break down the latest news heading into winter meetings including the Blake Snell situation, and react more to the Eugenio Suarez trade.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Stove. What a kind of nameis that. I was like, well,
welcome to another hot, hot,hot episode of Stove. It's Chuck

(00:21):
Powell and anders Hurst with you asright, our Mariners off season podcast coming
your way again this week. Uh. Of course, last week we did
a Thanksgiving episode. Hopefully you heardthat one. But now we get to
back to podcasting. Yeah, allthe way that it was meant to be.
Yes, oh yeah, No notime restrictions, no out times or

(00:43):
anything like that. No limits.You're on a hotter, you're on a
heater. Yeah, I let yougo. Yeah, same thing with you
too. You get to keep going, keep going. It's not like we
pull you early like in today's MLB. You get to ride out your your
your stuff. If your stuff ison, you keep going. And and
this is the Winter Meetings episode ofStove. I mean it gets going really

(01:04):
Sunday night and the Monday morning.Normally in the Winter Meetings things start to
die out around Thursday. They don'teven make it to Friday anymore. But
that could be different this year becauseI have a feeling that MLB Network's not
going to go anywhere. They'll staythere till Friday night at midnight Oh,
they have to waiting on the onebig thing that we're waiting on, and

(01:27):
what is that? I forget.It's whether or not you know, Eric
Fetti oh is coming back to Americaand who he'll sign with after a year
in Korea. Okay, that's thebiggest story in like all of sports right
now. I completely agree. Let'slet's dive deep into that where his options
are, who's the most likely tosign him? Oh? Wait, I

(01:49):
think there's a Japanese player that likehas sign something to do with an Asian
culture. Okay, yeah, Okay, there we go. Yeah, so
let's let's obviously the shoo Tani's abiggest story right now. We're gonna kind
of make it a tradition, asyou mentioned before, we started recording here,
just to kick off the episode withthat, since I think that's what
most people are interested in, marinersor non mariners, and I didn't really

(02:15):
I was following pretty closely over theholiday weekend. Nothing huge happened with him.
There obviously is some speculation going on, But do you see any change
in your outlook for sho Heil Tani, whether you know it's maybe a different
type of contract, maybe another teamhas popped into the race. What are
your thoughts on the early stages hereand hopefully he's gonna sign here pretty soon.

(02:37):
I'm just not buying anything. Idon't think anybody knows anything. Okay,
and I've said this on previous podcastsbefore, but I'm gonna stand by
it because I don't. I'm notseeing anything move the needle. I'm not
getting anything attributed to an organization itselfor to Otani and his agent, and
so I think right now they're justplaying the group greatest game of Secret Secret

(03:02):
Santa. Uh. That's that's everexisted. And I think maybe the reason
that they are is that they've toldteams, if you want me, don't
say anything. That's ground we've coveredin the past, and I'll give you
example, like like the Texas Rangers. One of the stories this week is
that the text Rangers are out.Okay, they just don't want to wait

(03:22):
around anymore. So the texts Rangersare out on show a Otani. We've
also heard the Boston Red Sox areout. Well. I don't know if
they were ever in, but Ialso don't believe that they're out right,
you know, I think that areyou telling me that you know we joked
about a little bit on Chuck andBuck. I have a feeling it's sort

(03:44):
of like, okay, show a, We're gonna leave if you if you
want to come with us, letus know, playing hard to get a
little bit. I think I'm atthe doorway. Come on three seconds one,
two and a half two threeqartered,I'm kidding. I'm not kidding.

(04:08):
We're gonna leave and you can't playwith us. I'm in the car now.
You're gonna be alone. You're gonnaend up with somebody you don't want
to be with. Have a.I have a feeling that's what it is.
And then somebody else threw in thatOh, Toronto blue Jays watching the
conversation. They've entered the car,and I think I told you before we

(04:30):
started. I think that's a simplecase of hey, we haven't considered show
hey to the Blue Jays on anational level. Let's think about that for
a while. Yeah, I don'tthink anybody has any information. I think
we're gonna all learn as a collective, and I think it's gonna happen at
the Winter meetings and sooner than later. I would be surprised if we don't

(04:54):
know by Tuesday, and I thinkthat's again I'm doing a lot of just
think because that's all we have.We'll have any information. These are just
your what's your gut feel. Myimpression of him is I'm so respectful of
everything. I do want to evenbe respectful of the process. Yep.
I'm asking all of you to keepsecrets on whatever conversations that we've had with

(05:16):
you, and as a return,I'm not going to tie up your off
seasons waiting for me. So Ithink we could know by Sunday night.
Yeah, maybe it starts the WinterMeetings coverage. I think we'll know no
later than Tuesday. Wow, Ireally do what a kickoff to Winter meetings.
That would be the biggest free agentin the recent history of Major League

(05:36):
Baseball. And then you just kindof go from there. And I think
you mentioned when we were talking aboutprepping for this episode that nothing really huge
has happened, and you and yousaid that, like, I think everyone's
waiting for Showhay, and I thinkrightly. So that's that's kind of the
main piece to first Domino to fall, so to speak. So then once
that happens, everything else will startto kind of fall into place as teams

(05:58):
look into backup plans if they werehoping on signing him and kind of going
from there. So I think that'sa good inference. But yeah, that's
that's coming up soon here. I'mlooking forward to it. Well, if
it won any concrete information, Imean, if I can read into anything,
the Saint Louis Cardinals, they usuallycare a pretty high budget. Oh
yeah, they're a small to midmarket team, but they have such rabid

(06:21):
fan support and they've had it fordecades, so they have more money than
what most small market teams have towork with. And they they've signed Sonny
Gray. Yeah, so three orseventy five million dollars. If I were
to read into anything, I'm guessingthe Cardinals are out. Yeah, I
guess I'm guessing the Cardinals are notgoing to get show Aotani. So that's

(06:45):
one competitive team that probably would havebeen willing to spend the money at the
beginning of the process and then realized, nah, it's not gonna happen.
Yeah, and just looking at froma Cardinals perspective, it's probably not.
I mean, everyone would love tohave show Hay on their team, Don't
get me wrong. But they havea pretty potent offense already, and for
someone who's not going to pitch mostlikely next year, uh, they needed

(07:08):
to add to that pitching staff.So it makes sense from a Cardinals perspective
to go after you know, asurefire Ace and Sonny Gray. So I
I can totally see what you meanthere. And there's, like you said,
one last team to kind of competewith others on that. So let's
look at it from a local perspective. Now, do you think that has
anything changed in your mind about theMariner's chances of landing? Mister Shohey,

(07:32):
again, I heard the Daniel Kramerstory. I didn't read it into it
the way that other people did andjust took it as gospel truth. I
think there are a lot of jadedMariners fans and and uh and journalists frankly
in town. To me, itwas a fine piece. I don't have
any qualms with what Daniel did towrite it, but I think he was

(07:55):
just you know, rumor from thegrapevine, you know, is that it's
probably not going to happen. Well, I could have told you that.
I could have woke up, youknow, back in June. Second Yeah,
from a nap and told you that, But I don't see any concrete

(08:15):
information. I think that this thing, this entire process. You have Gray's
has signed, you have Aaron Nolathat has re signed with Philadelphia. They
have money. I wouldn't eliminate them, I guess from consideration. But clearly
we haven't even gotten started. We'renot even out of the starting blocks with
free agency. There's only been onetrade of significance, and even that the

(08:39):
biggest piece was a relief pitcher,a left handed relief pitcher and Aaron Bummer.
And so I think that I thinkthe Mariners they would be they would
have made a more aggressive move bynow if they were completely out. On
show Aotona, I completely agree.I think they're kind of just like everyone
else, waiting for that for Dominoto fall. If they if we grab

(09:01):
him, great. But there wasover the holiday weekend, if you guys
didn't catch our Thanksgiving episode, wetalked about a pretty big trade on the
Mariners side of things. The thirdbaseman almost every single game for the past
two years, a Henio Souarez isout. He is going to the Arizona
Diamondbacks, who have now like fourformer Mariners of the recent years on their

(09:22):
teams, which is pretty funny.And in return, the Mariners get Sebbi
Zavala and I forget the relief pitcher'sname, to be honest, Carlos Vargas.
Carlos Vargas. That's right, okay, but that kind of tells you
the significance of the return. Ithink most would assume it's mostly a salary

(09:43):
dump, and maybe you can takeout some strikeouts from your lineup on that
as well. At this point,what do you have you you've had some
time to digest that a Heno Suareztrade. What are your thoughts and kind
of recapping what the Mariners did there? Well, I think it's not even
you know, it is a salarydump, and so you can, as
a Mariner fan, do what youwant with that. You know, the

(10:07):
reaction can be, oh, look, they don't even want to keep the
payroll that they have. I don'tthink that's the scenario. I think this
is an organization that had made itthat feels that it did not make the
playoffs this year because they struck outtoo much, and particularly with runners in

(10:28):
scoring position. And so when you'regetting ready for the new year to commit
thirty one million dollars plus, whichis what they would have had to commit
to the two biggest culprits for strikeoutsin the middle of your order that you
had. I think it was anorganizational decision of, Hey, if we're
serious about cutting down on strikeouts,how can we justify spending thirty one million

(10:52):
dollars on four hundred plus strikeouts forthis upcoming year. And so I do
believe that it was a strategic decision. However, if they don't use the
money saved to get to now spendon the pieces that you need, because
you now are minus two thunderbats,Yeah, no, when they did make

(11:16):
contact, they created damage. Imean, Suarez damn near knocked in one
hundred runs this year, and soyou have you're gonna you already needed offense.
Now you need even more offense.So I'll go ahead and I'll go
with you, even though I thinkGeno brings more to the plate than just
baseball abilities, and they've always undervaluedthat in this organization, and I think

(11:41):
to their fault. But I'll goahead and dance with you. If you're
saying thirty one million dollars on fourhundred plus strikeouts is too much we can
spend our money better elsewhere to buildthe kind of team around Julio and our
pitching that we need to win inthe regular season and then the postseason.
So I'll dance with you on that. But now the task to add more

(12:05):
potency in the middle of the orderis heightened, and there's not a lot
of talent out there on the freeagent market. There's not a lot of
plug and play guys out there onthe free agent market that are gonna supplant
the power that you just gave up. So now it's the balls in their
court. I'll rap with this atleast this thought. Yeah, if ROAs

(12:28):
is the second baseman and Ureus isthe starting third baseman on opening day,
they failed. Yeah, okay,even if they significantly upgrade in the outfield
as well. No, that's agood point. Yeah, I mean,
you know, you get Cody Bellingerand yeah something everybody, Yeah, everybody
gets hung up on that, likepositional Like Ty France can't play first base.

(12:50):
He's got to hit more power.I yes, Corner infielders, Corner
outfielders need to hit with power unlessyou've got a second basement that hits with
power. If you get Brandon Lauefrom from Tampa. Then you can live
with Ty France hitting fifteen to twentyhome runs because now you have a second

(13:11):
baseman that's gonna hit thirty. Yeah, you know this was the San Francisco
Giants back in the Barry Bonds days. Yeah, you can live with a
gold glove first baseman and JT.Snow because Barry Bonds hits ninety home runs
a year, and your second basement, which is yeah, normally not a
power position. He's hitting thirty fivehome runs for you, So you can

(13:33):
live with that. So okay,by your question, I still would not
be happy. Yeah, if that'sthe starting second basement and the third basement
on opening day. But if showhayes the DH, I can live with
him second and third. Yeah.I think show Hay is a great equalizer
if you kind of have marginal downgradesor somewhat equal in other parts of your

(14:01):
lineup, but you end up gettingJoho Tani. I think fans would mostly
be happy about that, to behonest. And I just kind of go
into it thinking I would have rathertried to stand pat with and I get
the no strikeouts or trying to limitstrikeouts thing with your lineup. I actually
agree. I think we struck outtoo much, but I think that's more

(14:22):
of an approach thing than a playerpersonnel thing, so I think that could
have been changed a little bit.I get au Heno strikes out a lot.
I get Taoscar strikes out a lot. I think Julio's going to improve
on that big time come next year. I agree, So that'll help a
lot because he was I think secondon your team in strikeouts, so that
one of your best players is oneof the main culprits of the issue that

(14:43):
you think. So anyways, Iwould have rather stand pat at third base.
I think there's very low chance thatyou're going to get a better third
baseman than au Henho Suarez come twentytwenty four. But if you upgrade in
other parts of that that just likeyou said earlier, I love your point
on that leaves you even more offenseto get now because that makes their job
harder, and it just seems likea much simpler solution. I get,

(15:07):
like eleven million dollars for au Henowould probably not be ideal going into the
year, but you had a cluboption on him the next year that you
probably weren't gonna take. So takeone more year with Gino, Who's gonna
play great defense, He's gonna playevery single day, is a great clubhouse
presence, who's gonna probably come backto the thirty plus home run form that
he's shown. And I guess youcan try and work with Tay Oscar,

(15:33):
but I'm fine with losing that aswell. I just think that if you
kind of keep the main pieces insteadof trying to shuffle things around so much
and then upgrade those other holes inother areas, whether it's free agency or
trades from your prospect chart. SoI just think it would have been an
easier solution to kind of, insteadof trying to shuffle your main pieces from

(15:54):
offense last year, then to justkeep those in and then upgrade in like
your your other holes, to justcreate a better baseball team. But they've
created a path for themselves where it'sthey have some room to Well, here's
where our pushback, because I absolutelydon't think. I absolutely think you can't
keep them both. Really, ifyou would have kept one, fine,
if you would have gwen It pickedup the qualifying offer for Tao fine and

(16:17):
then traded Gino, or if youkept Geno at eleven million, Right,
But where are you going to cutdown on the strikeouts? Yeah? If
not in these two are with yourtwo biggest strikeout culprits. Yeah, I
mean Julio, You're not moving Julio. Jared strikes out a lot. He's
either going to be your starting corneroutfielder left or right, or he's going

(16:37):
to be a trade chip to getyou a monster, part of a package
to get you a monster. It'sone or the other. So Col's going
to strike out a lot, there'sno getting around that. I think Ty
will strike out less if he's backwith this baseball team. JP doesn't strike
out. But where are you goingto? Where are you gonna save on
strikeouts if you don't lop all thetwo biggest problems? Yeah? See,

(17:03):
I actually I would. I thinkmy ideal solution was to keep one of
them instead of both. But Iwould rather have both than neither, If
that makes sense. Well, itdepends on what they do. Yeah,
Now, well let's see what theydo if they If they don't do anything,
then we still reserve the right tocomplain. How did you not keep
at least one of those guys inthe middle of their order? But Let's

(17:26):
now see what they do with thesavings. Let's see how aggressive that they're
going to be. Because as Imentioned, there's only two of the top
twenty five free agents are off thelist, and not a single hitter.
So every single offensive player that couldcontribute and make and make this team better
is is out there and available toyou. Not to mention all the trade

(17:47):
possibilities. If I have an issuewith it is Gino had more value to
this organization than he had to anyother organization. I agree what he brings
defensively, what he brings in theclubhouse, what he brings with the fan
base. So if there's an issue, it's you just traded a guy that's

(18:11):
been a pretty significant piece of thisteam, a ninety win team and an
eighty eight win team. And lookfor whatever people think about Jerry Depoto,
he's not stupid. No, okay, he's a bright guy. He's not
going to say no, I don'twant that better offer for Suarez, I
want this crappy one. Yeah.No, he's taking the best offer.

(18:33):
So what he got for Gino Suarezwas the best offer out there. So
that shows you the value that Ginohad on the open market for other teams.
Yes, for other teams. Otherteams are like, I'm not paying
eleven million dollars for a thirty plusyear old third baseman who's got a slow
bat, has to guess to hithome runs, has to guess right to

(18:55):
hit home runs. And yeah,you proved his defense, but we don't
have Perry Hill in our organization.He could regress back to the mean.
So that's the value of Gino onan open market. But I think he
had value with us here, andso that's where I would lay my criticism

(19:15):
if anything like, there was noway you were going to get the value
that Gino brings to your baseball teamby trading him. So the only way
that they're going to get that valueis if they use that money, combined
with what they say from Tayo toget something that they might not have.
John Stanton might not have approved otherwise, Right, because every owner is going

(19:37):
to have a threshold. Right,We don't have a cap in this league,
but every owner has a cap.No one has unlimited money. Right,
Well, every owner just has acap. They just have a business
cap. And we don't know whatJohn's is. Hollander and Jerry tell us
it's not an issue. We canspend as much as we want. That's
bull crap. Yeah, but wedon't know where that is. So every

(19:57):
owners like, all right, here'swhat you gotta stay, and maybe they
can be talked into spending a littlebit more than that. But if they
went to him and he said thisis where you got to stay at one
sixty, I can't go over onesixty, then getting rid of thirty puts
you in show hate business. Yeah, puts you in a lot of other

(20:18):
players in the business for a lotof other players. So there is a
chance that we're gonna be happy withthe road that they've taken. But I'm
not gonna promise it. Yeah,you know, I'm not gonna promise that.
And they've got a lot of workto do to get us to the
Happyville. Yeah, I agree,and I just for me, it just

(20:41):
it makes like I said, itmakes our job harder. Now they have
to do that much even more becauseI think they need to upgrade on this
team already. If you kept thosetwo guys they did just from a like,
now they really do quality perspective.Yeah, and they need to even
more now because this team is notat this point in time this roster is
not as good as it was atthe end of the year. So yeah,

(21:03):
I just hope that really comes quickly. I just it's a lot of
risk to bank that into whether youthink you can pull off a trade,
or whether you think you might beable to sign show Hey or whatever.
You think. It would have beena lot safer for Bet to keep at
least one of those two guys andthen hope to maybe get an upgrade somewhere

(21:23):
else in the lineup. I completelyagree with you on the on the value
thing for Gino. He was abig piece in this team personality wise,
clubhouse wise. Before we get toour next topic, I didn't we didn't
talk about this before the episode.I did see a couple of links seeing
the Mariners being in on Matt Chapmanfree agent third baseman. If they if

(21:45):
they saved the money on Gino sothey could sign Matt Chapman, would you
be okay with that? Would yoube happy with that? I think,
okay, it's about as far asI would go. Okay. I don't
know if he's much of an upgrade. He's younger, yeah, and I
do think he has more of anupside terrific defender, so you get more

(22:10):
years with him, but you wouldhave to pay You're probably you're gonna have
to pay double the sound of christMilia for a guy that he is so
inconsistent at the plate. And atthis stage we've got a large enough sample
size. He's not going to blossominto Mike Schmidt. No, no,
it's just not going to And thosewere the thoughts with him once upon a
time, is that he's you know, he's such a great defender, and

(22:33):
he's such a ballplayer, and heshows the potential for because he will.
I mean, at the beginning oflast year it looked like he was having
his breakthrough year. Yes, hewas dreadful in the second half. So
we've got a large enough sample sizethat I think he can be a good
major league hitter with some power thathe can bring to the table. And
I think it can be a valuablecontributor to a team because he does a

(22:55):
lot of the little things that youlike. And then another big thing is
he might be the best defensive thirdbaseman in the sport. But at double
the value of that, I don'tthink he's I think he's hit the end
of the road. He's not goingto be Scott Rowland. He's going to
be a decent hitter and a greatdefender, and I don't want to spend
twenty million plus per year on aguy like that. Yeah, if you

(23:18):
gave him the choice of eleven millionfor a Heno Suarez for next year or
twenty million on Matt Chapman, I'dtake eleven mil for But that's the strange
part about all of this though,And this kind of is going to infringe
upon Chuck's choice a little bit.That's the strange part about all of this
because there's such a pressure from thefan base. They want to see the

(23:41):
money spent. Nick Fane once gothe once sat on Twitter and he got
killed for it that I think mostof you just would rather have a higher
payroll than a winning team, andhe got killed for it. I don't
think he's that far off. No, everybody is so good. They're so
angry that this organization has not spentmoney, and they haven't historically. This

(24:03):
is a cheap frickin' organization. Butthey're so tied up on that. We
lost Junior because he wouldn't spend money. We lost John Randy Johnson because he
wouldn't spend money. They're so hungup on that that there's such an emphasis
on adding to the payroll and notappreciating that we've got a really good roster

(24:25):
here that needs to be improved upon. But even without going crazy on the
free agent market and crazy with payroll, we got a really good foundation that
should win for a number of years. And you start going, so,
if you're going to start eliminating Chapman's, where are you going to add the
payroll? Yeah, I mean ifyou can't, Oh, Tony's the obvious
choice. We've talked about Bellinger inthe past. We're not that high on

(24:48):
him, not at twenty five thirtymillion. I'd take him at twenty five.
But yeah, I mean, believeme, there are a lot of
baseball people that are like, runthe other way. Really. I mean,
he had the bounce back season lastyear. Yeah, bounce think about
this, Anders, He had abounce back season last year where he was

(25:08):
back into the All Star category.He had the third lowest hard hit rate
in the entire sport. That's witha great seat, that's including people that
had crappy season. Yeah. Yeah, he had the low like the bottom
five hard hit rate in the entiresport. Yeah, I mean a in

(25:32):
an era in which we're emphasizing youknow, analytics, and we're looking for
exit velocity over batting average when weevaluate players and their upside, their potential
going forward. I mean, doyou want to spend thirty million dollars on
a soft hitter who found a bunchof gaps and holes last year? Yeah?
I mean I think more what Iwould be looking for is the upside.

(25:53):
We saw what he could do whenhe was at the Dodgers two years
in the top five MVP race,including winning one and playing elite defense and
outfield and first base, I mightadd, and he has power and as
speed exactly, so he has allthe tools. And he's still twenty seven
I think is his age at thispoint in time, but a really long
swing, yeah, which is moreprone to well, not just strikeouts but

(26:17):
just slumps. Yeah. I meanhe at won seventy three, one sixty
three just three years ago. Yeah, one sixty three. Yeah, I
mean, he's not an MVP.He's going to double a yeah, you
know, and yet uh so,I guess my point is you start going
down the list, and it's likeif you start getting nitpicky and yet you
want to add payroll. Like ifyou know, if they signed Chapman,

(26:41):
okay, yeah, okay, yeah, it's better than Ureus. Yeah,
if they signed Bellinger, he's nothigh, he's not even on my list
really, But if they sign him, Okay, I see what you're trying
to do there. Left handed bat, left handed bat, versatile, defensive,
young chixel Digham, you know thatsort of thing. So that'll sell

(27:07):
you some tickets. Yeah, andyeah, there's a lot of talent there
and and maybe he has solved itagain, but you start going down the
list and they're like, well,if you if we're gonna start nitpicking,
then how are we going to addto this payroll that's going to make everybody
happy? Yeah, I agree withthat. I think the sentiment that fans
have it's different from me because I, of course, you know, I
was a little bit younger when thewhole losing Griffy and losing Randy Johnson and

(27:33):
all that kind of started with theMariners and their reputation for being a cheap
organization started. It's more been inthe last five six years for me because
that's kind of what I've seen.Like you said, I think it makes
it more frustrating seeing how talented thiscore is and then not really taking advantage
of that. There could be twoor three years down the road where we

(27:56):
lose some of these guys to freeagency and then you're kind of back to
media because you lost a lot ofthat core that major team special. So
I think what fans, including me, would rather see is a team that
like tries and spends money and triesto take this team over the top and
fail. That's okay, at leastyou tried, versus We're not gonna take

(28:18):
any risks. We're just gonna staya eighty five to ninety win team,
hope we get into the playoffs andmaybe something special happens. I would rather
see a team try and make thosebig moves and take advantage of this core
you have in the next couple ofyears and go and go and try and
win a World Series then just youknow, not like I said, not
take any risks and hope something popsat some point in time. Well it's

(28:41):
not that they're not trying, right, I mean, they're trying to do.
Believe me, Jerry Depoto wants towin the World Series worse than you
do. What I mean is tryas in, yeah, they really thought.
Look, they really thought Coldon Wongwas gonna work last year, and
you know what pull back to curtain? So did I? Yeah, I
didn't. I mean I didn't thinkit was a great signing. I wasn't
thrilled about it, but I consideredit an upgrade. You missed the playoffs

(29:03):
by a game. Colton Wong ishalf what he was in Milwaukee. You've
made the playoffs. Unfortunately he wasa tenth And where did that come from?
I don't know. Yeah, therewere better moves, there were more
significant moves. There were better swingfor the fences kind of moves. That

(29:25):
move should have worked. That moveshould have gotten you and that should have
been the difference in one game.He should have been a one war player.
Yeah, I want to just beone game better than No, I
hear you, though, I knowI understand that. But you know,
if that move was not just anot a one war that was like a
negative three. I understand that thatwas unforeseen. Like even me who was

(29:49):
not a fan of the Culton Longsigning. But what was I most angry
about last offseason? No moves ofthe trading deadline. Ye see, I'm
not angry about the Wong signing,not even angry about the Pollock sign What
I'm angry about is your team putyou back in a position, got you
back into the playoffs despite the wrongand Pollock god awful first half, and

(30:11):
then you got to the trading deadlinein playoff position, and then you didn't
go for it. Yeah, itdoesn't have to be money for me.
I know it does for a lotof people. It doesn't have to be
money for me, but it hasto be something. It has to be
some sort of asset that you haveaccrued, whether that's prospects or whether that's

(30:32):
money that you've saved over the years. And to me, I mean,
you can't have it both ways.So you have to one way or the
other. When you've got a chanceto win, you got to go for
it. Yeah. I view ita little bit differently. I see it
more of as an offseason failure thana trading deadline failure because they had a
very successful twenty twenty two with agood young core where we all agreed they

(30:55):
needed a bat or two and youknow Tayoscar Hernandez the big upgrade, and
then you mentioned Colton Wong as well, which I viewed as a equivalent to
Adam Frasier move at the time,and he obviously was not that. But
I just I think if they hadmaybe I don't want to say take the

(31:18):
Mets approach because no one should bedoing that, but outcome wise, I
would rather have the Mets season lastyear than the Mariners, where you,
you know, take a swing onsome free agents, where you have the
upside of being the best team inbaseball and winning a World Series. But
that's never gonna happen, right,But then if not, even if it's
not to the extent of the Mets, you do this with one or two

(31:41):
guys instead of four. If atthe trading deadline you're not in the position
you want to be, if theplayers that you got are not performing to
their expectations, you trade those awayand you get something back where you can
reload for the future. So tome, it just seems way more valuable
to a franchise. What do youhave wanted? I mean, we we
got other things to discuss rather thango back through last year. But who

(32:05):
who would you have wanted? Imean, I think Trey Turner would have
been a much better YEP, andhe was never signing here. He was
already married to Philadelphia and Bryce Harpermidway through last season, this season before,
Yeah, Damsby Swanson was not cominghere, and that's who I wanted.
Yeah, that's who I wanted.And he was his wife was an
athlete in Chicago and they already gotthat plan. He was going to the

(32:29):
Chicago. So just because you wantsomebody that Carlos Correa was never coming here,
he got He's been booed every singleat bat he's ever had in Seattle.
He was not coming here. AaronJudge was never coming here. He
was either going to the Giants orhe was staying with the Yankees. So
like and and I'm not saying don'tgo after the big name free agents,

(32:53):
it's more of once the list,once the list starts to dwindle, I
don't want to be the team that'sjust spending money to spend money and reaching
on free agents that I don't putat the Trade Turner level. Yeah,
I would love to have had TradeTurner. He was never coming here.
Yeah. Now, if you wantto make an argument the off season before

(33:15):
where you should have gone further withMarcus Simeon because they were in on Marcus
Simeon. He wanted to come hereand the Rangers were willing to give him
longer years, And it sounds likethe Mariner's balked, Yeah, yeah,
I want if you wanted that.But by the way, Mark Simmons was
my pick that off season to tryand go and get. So I think

(33:36):
that's the point of what I'm tryingto say here, is that you start
going down the list and all ofa sudden, you're going to be getting
down. If I'm not that soldon Bellinger, neither one of us is
all that's sold on Chapman. Yeah, and we're just looking for hitters here.
JD. Martinez, I mean,i'd take him, but he's old.
Sol there's not coming here. Hestrikes out too much. So I

(34:00):
don't want to get to the pointwhere I'm down to the fifteenth best free
agent on the market and I haveto overspend right to make my fan base
happy. I want to be makingsmart decisions at all time. I agree.
And if you over just because youspend the money, if it's not
on the right player, I don'tthink the fan base would be happy if
you spent twenty five mil per year. Well, I spent twenty five mil

(34:22):
on Robbie Ray and people hate it. I don't get that. Personally.
I think Robbie Ray has been totallyfine. He had a good year in
twenty twenty two, just because hehad that one bad playoff appearance, which
I will argue to my death thatthat was terrible managing. When you have
Eric Swanson, who's a lefty killer, by the way, who is against

(34:44):
the left handed hitter, who hasgood splits against left hand and pitching.
No idea why you're throwing in aguy in that position AnyWho, We're not.
We're going to move past that.That was over a year and a
half ago. Well, I cantell you why they did it. We'll
do that off the air. Okay, sounds good. Anyways, I love
the Robby Ryce sending. I thinkthat was a great move and it gives
you a solid two three starter withsome upside to you know, have a

(35:10):
breakout year. I mean, I'mnot a breakout you want to sion,
but a bounce back year at somepoint. Yeah. Anyway, I don't
think it's just spending money blindly thatwill make people happy. It's it's getting
good players and if they make theright trades, like you've mentioned, then
now that'll happen. Let's let's sinceyou've kind of alluded to it a couple
of times, let's get into Chuck'schoice now, and then we can go

(35:30):
into the kind of bigger topic discussionafter that. So what you got for
me today on Chuck's Choice, well, as part of it was what we
just covered. The other part ofit, I would just say, is
this that what I do believe ifit's not Otani, and I think they're
in on Otani. Yeah, Idon't think they're going to get him,

(35:51):
No, But after that, II really like the trade idea for the
big piece this offseason, and fora lot of reasons. You know,
I know there's an argument out there, and it's a fine one. Like
when you get a free agent,you don't have to give up any prospects.
I get that, But when youtrade for a player, you are

(36:15):
trading for the whole package. Youknow exactly how many years you have him
for, for exactly the salary thatyou didn't have to negotiate, that he
doesn't even have to want to playfor you, right, you know,
you have access now to a lotmore players. We just went through a
list of guys that were never goingto consider Seattle. Now you have the

(36:35):
entire everybody that's signed the free agentmarket are the unsigned everybody else that's signed
those commodities. Now I can goout and pick and shoes. What was
a player that I really like ata salary I really like? And now
I've just got to figure out whichprospects to give up in order to get

(36:58):
him, and how many of thoseand what level of prospects I want to
go get him. The most valuablecommodity on this market, the Mariners have
young, controllable quality pitching, alot of it, a lot of it,
a ton of it, and Idon't want to give up. I

(37:19):
don't want to give up a lotof it. But I got to give
up some of it. Yeah,Yeah, you don't want eight starting pitchers.
So when Justin Hollander says you havepitching until you don't, you know
what I mean? Yeah, herealized what you mean. Trade a pitcher.
Yeah, so we can get somehitting. Yeah, because you need
hitting, and you just gave upGino Suarez and Tayo Hernandez. You need
it now more than ever. Sothey really do have something at their disposal

(37:43):
that not a lot of organization,very few have. It is in such
high demand. Every single contender wantsa good, controllable, young pitcher,
every single every single the Cincinnati Reds, for example, we think we got
the hitters, Baltimore, we needsome pitching. Baltimore is a great example
of it. And I think they'regoing to end up Dylan with Dylan Ceese

(38:06):
because of that. But you havean opportunity. There's a real chance here
for Jerry to Poto to I'm noteven sure what you could get for Brian
Wu. I'm not so sure thatif it's a Jan Soto trade that you
couldn't trade straight up right there,just one for one. I know that
sounds insane, and maybe that's insane. I don't think it's insane. But

(38:28):
when you're giving a team that needspitching, that wants to contend right now
because they're financially invested in Bogart's TatisanMachado, they have to try to win
now. They don't have any pitchingbeyond you Darvish, and he even might
be washed up then to be ableto say, Okay, you got a
cut payroll and you want pitching,and we can give you a Bryce Miller

(38:51):
and Okay, but that's all you'regetting. Yeah, you get a guy
to put that might be as readyto be a number three, number two.
We even starter, yeah, forthe San Diego Padres this year.
So we're not giving you this bigpackage. If you want a quality pitcher
who's young and controllable and cuts yourpayroll that you can use to try to
win this year, that's what you'regetting. Yeah, Because all you're giving

(39:14):
us is a guy on a oneyear salary with Scott Boris' is an agent,
and Scott Boris is not gonna lethim resign with us now. So
we're gonna get one year of Sotoand we're gonna give you all this control
for a good young pitcher who provedhe can get out major league hitting.
You're not getting any more than that. The point is that young, controllable,
quality pitching very keyword in all ofthat. Guys like Wu and Miller

(39:37):
who have proven I can win atthat level. Hancock not as much.
Right, still has great upside,though I'm not sure. I really don't
know how great a package you couldfetch for one of those guys, but
I have a feeling it's very significant. Yeah, and whether it's like doing
that multiple times, because we have, like you mentioned, we they are

(40:00):
very very deep in that the Marinersare, so you can do that twice.
You can make two big one forone trades. If you see that
coming, I'm all for that.Well. And if if Justin's really like
you have pitching until you don't,and if they're that scared to give away
too much one, okay, yeah, let's compromise on that. We're gonna

(40:21):
give up one of the guys.And we all like them, Okay,
Justin, we really like Brian Will, We really like Bryce Miller, Emerson
Hancock, Emerson Ancock. But yougot to give to get and if you
aren't gonna get Otani and free agency, then we got to get a bat.
Yes, and the way to geta bat is with one of these

(40:42):
young pitchers. So, you know, we've mentioned who you would want a
couple of times, but has therebeen any other names that have popped up
in your head recently about a possibleaddition via trade for the Mariners. I
know you want Luis Robert. What'sanother kind of thought that the Marrion could
be fetching on the on the freeor the trade market. H Well,

(41:04):
I mean Sodo. I mean I'dbe in the Sodo game for the right
price. I'm not I'm not gonnabe giving up. Would you do it
for Bryce Miller or Brian I think, well, yeah, I think I
would. I mean, right now, the mocked proposals out there are like
WU and uh class A and Millersomething else, not two of the pictures,

(41:29):
but something else. And even then, like there's a no brainer for
the Mariners, right, I'm notsure you have to give up that much,
right, So, yeah, Iwould be interested. I know he's
just a rental. It's not myfirst choice. My first choice would be
Robert and then uh. We've discussedother smaller trades, but in terms of
like just significant pieces that would beout there, that's where that's where my

(41:52):
list is going to be. GettingRobert. You know you mentioned Tatis.
That's been an intrigued Yes, that'sabsolutely I've been I've been all in on
that, and I think they're goingto keep trimming payroll. I don't think
they're going to stop it. Sodaokay, I mean their owner just passed
away. He's the one that greenlit a small market team becoming the third
largest payroll and the sport whoever inheritedthat team from him and then was shown

(42:16):
the numbers and like, here yougo, missus Sidler, this is what
you have. And she's like,we're losing that much money because of this
payroll. You got to get ridof some of this. Yeah, and
they won't get rid of all ofit, but I think that they could
go Sodo and Tatis A right,and I'm definitely interested in Tatis. Yeah,

(42:37):
so I go Robert and then Tatiswould be my top top two.
All right, I'd be in onthat as well. Let's let's trade some
of our depth. Let's do it. Yeah, Okay, we've kind of
held off on this topic till theend of the podcast here, but it's
a big one. I want totouch on a local Seattle guy who was

(42:58):
available free agent right now, whohas been in the area recently. There's
been lots of hype around him,mister Blake Snell, former So Young winner
twice actually last year and twenty nineteenwas it with the Tampa Bay Remember I
don't do as well with yeah dates, he's one two. Yeah, he's
won two of them in our lifetimeand yeah lifetime. Pretty recently I think

(43:20):
as well. Left handed pitcher hasgreat stuff. You know, had a
couple down years in between the syngs, but had a really good bounce back
year last year for the padres.Uh. Would you be interested in signing
Blake Blake Snell? How what wouldbe the number you're looking at? The
years you're looking at, and thenthat leaves you even more pitching to trade
from since you're signing a former CYYoung winner. We could have done this

(43:45):
entire podcast on justice. I'm notkidding. I could do six hours.
Yeah, on just this topic.Let's get into it. It's got so
many layers to it. Anders.Rather than to answer like, exactly the
number that I'd be looking for,because that's me operating in an area where
you know, maybe maybe I'm alittle out of my league to be discussing

(44:12):
this, I'll answer it this way. There is a price. There is
a point, whether it was PlanA or not, whether your greatest need
is offense or not. When areigning cy Young Award winner is desperate to
play for his home team, andthat's been the word that's been used,

(44:34):
and you can tell by how muchhe's been in the community in the last
couple of weeks. I mean he'sgoing to the to raise the flag at
Sea Hawk games, at the Huskygame, to ring the siren, that's
right. And he'd used every opportunityhe could to take pictures and flash the
dub the w and he's been usingevery everybody that asks, I want to

(44:55):
play for the Mayrin, he's Imean, he's doing his agent no favors
he and I think his agent isBoris if I'm not mistaken. So he's
got the wrong agent for this kindof approach. But it wouldn't have been
my plan. A. I knowit's not theirs, but Andrews, there
is a there is a spot whereit's like, we can't pass that up.

(45:21):
No, you can't. Talent istalent, and we have we clearly
have the payroll room. Everybody knowsthat. So talent is talent. So
if you know, I don't thinkhe's going to give some huge discount.
I don't think he's going to like, hey, let's go fifty years,
fifty million dollars, let's go.I don't think it's going to be some

(45:45):
huge discount. But if he's reallyas desperate and wants to play here,
I mean he grew up a Marinerfan. He knows their reputation, he
knows that he's going to have toprobably sacrifice some money in order to do
that, but he also knows howwell we develop pitching, true, and
how I pitch his ballpark as well. Yep. But if he wants a
bigger offer, it's out there forhim. So how much is he willing

(46:07):
to come down? And then whereis that number where he doesn't have to
come down so far that in twoyears he's like, damn you guys,
why did you talk me into that? Yeah, so he's got to come
down a little bit, and thenyou gotta there's a number, there's a
happy point that if he's willing tosign for that, and you're like,

(46:30):
it wasn't what we wanted to do. It wasn't what we were intending to
do, But how can we nottake this guy? He actually wants to
play here, And so there's anotherway. It gives us even more depth
in our starting rotation. Now wecan consider even bigger fish to trade or
trade two guys to get offense forthis team. So our goal, our

(46:54):
objective is to get offense, andyet there's more than one path to it.
So well, I heard from ourfriend Ryan Divish that he thinks it's
going to happen, ye, thathe's going to end up a Mariner,
And so that must be where thediscussion is right now. I think they're

(47:15):
waiting on Otani and then if theydon't get Otani, then it's okay,
Well let's go get Blake Snell andthen figure out how to get offense another
way, because that's you know,it's not as easy as everybody wants it
to be. Go get Snell andget Soto and get Otani. It's not

(47:36):
gonna happen anyway. Things don't happenthat quick. There are thirty other teams.
They're twenty nine other teams bidding forplayers that have just as much to
offer, and they are also andso you know, it's it's just not
as easy as just I want all, identifying the best people available and then
getting them all. And you know, the reputation for this organization. They're

(48:00):
not gonna take this payroll from oneforty five to three hundred. It's just
not gonna happen. So give upchasing that ghost, please. So but
but you so, this might beyour free agent nut. This might be
if you signed Blake Snell. Thenthat means, Okay, we're not getting
any hitting, not in free agencyanyway, so we're gonna need to then

(48:24):
go acquire it via trade. Andat that point you might even dangle the
Gilbert Yeah, even though I don'twant him to. No, I don't
either. Do you see any regressioncoming from Blake Snell? Like I mentioned,
he had a couple down years inbetween his two sengs, but all
signs last year showed that he wasback to his top form. He's he's

(48:45):
has the upside of any starting pitcherin the league. But do you see
any sort of possible regression coming?I think this is a lot of people
would compare it to the Robbie Raysigning left handed pitcher coming off a cyng
or season in free agency. TheMarriner's going for that, obviously. I

(49:05):
think it's a little bit different becauseit seemed like Robbie Ray's cy young year
was kind of a flash in thepan a little bit, had one really
good year in Toronto, but otherthan that he was like an above average
guy. Blake Snell has shown thathe's one of the top top guys at
his best, just hasn't been athis best like every single year the past
five years. So I'm wondering ifyou see any possible downside to it.

(49:27):
Oh, there's red flags. Okay. I mean, first of all,
he led the league in walks lastyear. Yeah, I mean think about
it. He won the National LeagueCy Young Award and led the league and
walks and led the league any eer, Yeah, those two things don't belong
in the same sentence. Now,how do you lead the league in era
and lead the league in walk Alot of strikeouts? A lot of strikeouts

(49:49):
and nobody could hit him? Yeah, which, it turns out is a
pretty good quality. That's a prettygood quality. But nobody can hit him.
Yeah. But what else goes though, Ian or Ian uh anders with
with when you are walking people?What else goes with that pressure? Well,
you're throwing a lot of pitch pitchyes, Okay, So now you're

(50:09):
a guy that leads the league inwalks is having a hard time getting through
six innings. Sometimes he's having ahard time getting through five. And this
was the issue with him in Tampa. It was I mean, he got
taken out of a playoff. Yah. There's still Tampa fans with like a
no hitter. Yeah, and it'sbecause they did not trust him after a

(50:31):
certain number of pitches. And sothere are a lot of people, I
mean, there are a lot ofpeople out there, like I don't know
how much, how long at thecontract I would give him and for how
much I would give him. Butthere's no question he's one of the best
free agents on the market and anyteam would take him, let's put it
that way. Yes. The otherred flag that I would raise, and

(50:51):
this is I don't have any insideinformation. I'm not spreading rumors. I
have no idea what's behind the scenewith Blake Snell. But it's not always
a great idea to bring a guyback to his hometown, you know.
Sometimes it's best for him to beaway from high school buddies, yeah,
and family and pressure. Yeah,you know. Alan Iverson used to talk

(51:15):
about that really, like he hadto separate himself from the people that he
kind of grew up with. Theywere too much of an influence. And
I'm not saying Blake Snell's got badinfluential people in his life. There's just
the possibility of that happening when youplaying for your hometown team. Yeah,
sometimes that just playing for the hometownteam. You got too many people in
your ear. Yeah, and sothat's also a little that's a pink flag.

(51:37):
Yeah, I'm not saying it's ared flag, but it is something
that you have to be aware of. But the truth of the matter is
there's a price. There is aprice that works for the Mariners, that
works for Snell, and you can'tturn away talent like this. And if
it works, we'll figure out away to get hitting through the trade market.

(51:59):
Yeah. I think another underrated thingabout it is, you know we
mentioned left handed hitting. Is thatwhat we need? That's what we need.
But now with Robbie Ray out forat least half of next year,
who knows what Marco's future holds.Those are your two left handed starting pitchers
at this point in time. Thiswould add another lefty to the starting rotation
that most points of the year lastyear we had all five starters were right

(52:21):
handed pitchers. I'm not saying that'sa huge deal, but it does help.
And when you're in a series tokind of switch it up versus hitters
so you can see a different kindof lineup because there are a lot of
platoon lineups nowadays with strategies. Butwe're also finding out that reverse splits,
that maybe we've put too much yesthis on that in the past, and
that there actually are Yeah. Imean, once upon a time, Tony

(52:42):
LaRussa would see a right handed hitterand he or right handed pitcher like,
oh, I can't have a righthanded hitter face him. So I'm glad
we don't operate that way anymore.Some guys from the right side or more
effect against that. I don't seeany of our top starters Castillo, Kirby
having Gilbert struggling with that. Ithink it was the main one that like

(53:05):
had Like if he faced a lefty, it was like a big difference than
if he faced already. Okay,yeah, yeah, but think about this,
This is the rotation that you couldend up with by mid season.
You could have Castillo, Snell,Kirby, Gilbert, and your number five
started Robe And that leaves you atleast at least two starters to trade for

(53:30):
some hitting, because absolutely that ifyou didn't, you would have Miller,
Wu and Hancock and Marco all available. That's nine starting pitchers that you would
be happy with in your in yourstarting rotation. At least two of those
could be going away for a bigpackage or you know a couple, you
know, medium sized ones. Absolutelyso, and that's that's got to be

(53:52):
the approach to it. And youknow, once if you added the Snell
piece, you do have to kindof consider the Gilbert or the Curb,
which is something that you may nothave wanted to consider before, because why
because that's a one for one.We're giving you an ace pitcher for a
superstar hitter, yep, And solet's make that trade. Robert for Logan

(54:16):
Gilbert, is what I'm hearing fromyou. Yeah. Oh, I think
that's perfectly. I don't think that'sout of it. You think it's trading
both ways. I mean considering Gilbert'sgot an even better contract than Robert because
he makes he's still in his he'snot even to arbitration yet, right,
So I Kirby for Robert for sure? Oh yeah, for sure. I

(54:38):
would be very, very very heavilytrying to hold on the George Kirby.
I think he's going to be asuperstar. But I do too. Yeah,
but Robert is too. Yeah.So that's just it, Like you
no longer have to think about packagingsomething together at that point, you could
do the one for one. Frankly, I'd rather package and I'll go ahead
and take the rotation with Castillo,Snell, Ray Kirby and Gilbert. I

(55:00):
think that would work out. Yeah, let's go, let's go to battle
with that. Yeah, and ofnothing else you say, yeah, yeah,
so, but yes, we alreadyI already feel like you have to
trade pitching to get hitting this offseason, so we don't need extra pitching.
But Snell does give you this flexibilitythat nobody else in the sport is gonna

(55:22):
have on the trade market. Soyeah, I mean, I'd love to
see it. I've always actually reallyliked like Snell too, even when he
was on Tampa. I was rootingfor them in that World Series. I
was a little upset when he gottaken out. I loved watching him last
year. It's unfortunate that he didn'tplay for more of a contender with the
Padres kind of not playing as wellas their expectations either. I'd love to

(55:42):
see him in the hometown colors,and it seems it seems like it's been
a while since we've had a reallygood player from Seattle on the Mariners.
That's like one of your better players, and I'm trying to remember the last
time that happened. To be honest, well, I'm not an expert in
that area, that's for sure.I'm not either since I haven't, maybe

(56:02):
the longer experience is not on myside. I mean, this is not
exactly known as a hotbed for thatsort of thing. But but so it'd
be kind of almost But this way, it's the first like big time free
agent that made it, since Felix, that made it so clear cut,

(56:22):
Yes, I want to play here. Yes, I mean I don't think
we've even Robinson Cano was we hadto overpay him in order to get him.
It wasn't like this was his firstchoice. His first choice was the
Yankees. So this is this sinceFelix is probably the first big time free
agent who's yelled from the mountaintops Iwant to play for the Mariner. Yeah,

(56:46):
and that's valuable. It's exciting too. Yeah, it's for how much
we've complained about, you know,the lack of free agent signings recently and
like, oh, no one wantsto play here, and like it's I
need to know that one of yourtargets is from here, wants to play
here as a big Mariners fan,and he would be an instant fan favorite,

(57:09):
instant fan favorite, so that wouldreplace a lot of that value that
you lost in Neo Heno Suarez.So yeah, I'm all for it.
I'd love to see him here.I think he's back to his best.
It seems like to me just fromwatching from afar. Who knows what the
in depth say, but yeah,I'd be all for it. And it

(57:30):
is Scott Boris that is his agent, by the way, So yeah,
that's a fun one. Yeah.Well, if he could prove to the
world, I mean I dictate therelationship, but usually Scott Boris's clients,
that's not the case. If yousign on with Scott Boris, it's usually
I don't want to hear from you. I'm getting you the best deal,

(57:51):
that's all. That's all. That'smy job. Yeah, And if you
don't want me as your agent toget the best deal, then find somebody
else. Yeah, so that's usuallynot his end. Yeah. He's also
Cal Rawley's agent, which makes meworry about Cal's future here. Yeah.
Well, okay, I think there'sa lot to think about. We'll touch
base with everyone next week, hopefully, you know, maybe we have some

(58:13):
Otwani news. Maybe we have aMariner's move maybe win. Yeah, well
that Winter meetings news, there's noquestion about it. I suspect the Mariners
will do something. Yeah, Ithink the next time we do the podcast,
so Tani will have a home andI wouldn't be surprised as Snell didn't
follow quickly after that. Let's goall right, that'll do it for us
this episode of Stove. Make sureyou check out Chuck and Buck Monday through

(58:36):
Friday six to ten at Sports Radioninety three point three KJRFM, and Andrews
is still doing, of course Nerveswith Durs. Yes, how often are
we doing this? Where is itavailable? It is available on anywhere you
get your podcast, iHeartRadio, ApplePodcasts, Spotify, wherever you need to
get it. All of these Stovepodcasts are actually also being uploaded onto that

(58:58):
page as well, so you'll beable to find us anywhere anywhere you listen
to baseball. Here on ninety threepoint three KJR, I still am running
the Inan for Neat show. Recently, we got lots of stuff going on
with football season, so just takea listen to the station and thank you
guys all for helping us out alittle all right, anders Hurst, Chuck
Powell will talk to you next weekon stove