January 8, 2024 • 53 mins
The Mariners (of course) made moves right after our last episodeof "Stove", so Chuck and Anders break it all down as Mitch Haniger is coming back, but the Mariners have to give up Robbie Ray to the Giants in return. The M's also add Luke Raley from the Rays in exchange for Jose Caballero.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Stove. What kind of name isthat. It's Monday, January eighth.
(00:24):
I'm going to say that because youknow when your podcast and the plan has
to do it once a week,Yes, off season Mariners podcast. You
know, trying to pick the exacttime of the week where you can maximize
the amount of your weekly podcast andkeep it fresh turns out as hard.
(00:53):
If you want a trade to godown for the Mariners, look no further
than the Stove Podcast. Always rightafter we do it. That's right.
We ignite the Stove like nobody's business. Yeah, it's it's weird that we
talked about this right before we startedrecording that it's the last three big Marritor's
moves have come at very inopportune times, shall we say, in accordance with
(01:15):
our schedule. I mean this hasto be the first topic. Andrews Hurst
Chuck Powell with you. It's ourStove podcast. So we did, I
mean we would. The idea isto do it every Thursday, right after
the radio ten thirty every Thursday.Yeah, and we got like a day
yeah, out of the podcast,not even that by the time it was
(01:38):
posted and we started promoting it.Yeah, it was the next day before
we would have Yeah, yeah,less than a day. So I take
a nap every well every day really, but every Friday I take a nap.
And then I woke up and Iget these two texts that i'd seen.
They didn't wake me up, No, okay, thank god? Yeah,
and it was do you want tore record? And I'm like,
(02:00):
oh, no, what happened?Do we have an audio failure or something?
Did it not take? What happened? And then all of a sudden,
I'm the cobwebs and starting to clearthem out of my head. I'm
like, wait a minute, becausethe other one was this happens to us
every time? And I'm like,was there a trade? I scramble to
(02:21):
find my computer because my phone's tooslow. I didn't even have the patience
for that scramble to find my computer, and not just a trade to trade?
Yeah, two big ones. Well, I was napping the day after
the last recording. Same thing happenedafter the Geno trade or before the Geno
(02:43):
raeah yeah broadcast right before and theCalnick trade. Yeah, so we are
magic for creating Jerry Depoto moves.And then the Mitch Garb one even you
could throw in there, too,not that you know, that was bad
timing. I mean, it waskind of bad timing for everyone. They
did that on Christmas Eve us,so at least it came out on Christmas
Eve. So obviously we're not goingto be recording a podcast on Christmas Eve.
We're with our families and everything.But yeah, no, the biggest
(03:07):
Mariners moves have come at the mostinopportune times for our podcast. But that's
fine. That means that they're listeningto us, and every time that we
talk about something, they're like,all right, we gotta do something else.
Maybe we get into their heads alittle bit. I don't know.
I don't know what's going on here. I really don't. Well, I
don't know how many Stove listeners are, but of the few that I believe
(03:29):
are truly dedicated, they're telling thejoke. Hey you guys, gotta you
guys. This is remarkable. You'reyou know how quickly they are making your
podcast obsolete? So who knows herewe are? I'm telling you the day
we're doing a special one on Monday. Normally do it on Thursday. We're
doing all one on Monday, Januaryeighth. So if Jerry's just locked into
(03:52):
making moves on Fridays or on ChristmasEve. Yeah, it really feels like
it's been a lot of kind ofthe news dump because us in the industry,
we kind of understand the process ofeverything. Right. When you want
to kind of hide a story,it's usually on a Friday after like it's
close to the end of the daywhen everyone goes to the weekend. You
know you're not gonna be able totalk about it very much on sports radio
(04:14):
for the rest of the week.And if you want to like make something
front and center, it's on likea Monday, so you can talk about
it all week and have it beon all the shows. Yeah, Or
do it, as you said,on a Friday on the last week of
the regular season, when you're playingfor a national championship, Yeah, on
Monday night in your town or onChristmas Eve. Then no one will ever
talk about it. Yeah, whichis kind of weird to me because you
(04:36):
know, as we look at thesedeals, we can kind of break them
down here in a second, ina vacuum. I don't really mind them.
I mean, we can talk aboutwhat this means for the Mariners,
and they're sort of upgrades. Iguess you could say, some familiar faces
both going in and coming out orcoming in and going out, I should
(04:58):
say, and we can chat about, you know, how this looks for
the Mariners going forward. So let'sjust uh for if you haven't heard.
Yeah, the first deal the Marinersmade was the marriage traded away Robbie Ray
to the San Francisco Giants, andin return they get Mitch Haniger back,
(05:18):
Anthony days Sclafani, who's a goodback end starter, and six million dollars
in cash. It's probably the mostvaluable thing that they thought they received,
to be honest. Uh So beforewe break down the second trade with the
Rays, what were your initial reactionsto getting Mitch Haniger back but then also
losing Robbie Ray in the process.Actually I want yours because I what is
(05:43):
what are your thoughts on this?I mean, I know the last couple
of years, you know, Ifound out in this podcast we seed iye
do ee on a lot more things, yeah than what I realized. Just
kind of its following you on Twitterand yeah, having you on the show
as our producer everyone in a while, I thought we would end up disagreeing
more than we actually do. Sowe're not that far off in our feelings,
(06:06):
but I know that Mitch Hanniger issuch a fan favorite. He is
and people will rally to his defenseon things, and I like him too,
don't get me wrong, but I'vebeen a little more critical than what
the fan base here wants me tobe with their guy Mitch. So what
are your thoughts on this? It'sfunny you say that, because that's basically
(06:29):
exactly how I feel about Mitch Haniger. I think he's a great dude.
Obviously, he's one of the guysin the clubhouse where he was when he
was here, and he's had acouple of big moments for the Mariners,
a couple of big years too,on twenty twenty two and in twenty seventeen.
I think his two like really reallygood years where I think you can
be better. And I was happywhen the Mariners didn't extend him and then
(06:54):
went and traded for Tasker Herdannez.I thought that was a pretty not super
signific an upgrade, but it wasa noticeable upgrade, I would say,
at least going into the the process. I think it was. Yeah,
it was mainly honestly. The mainreason is because he played every day,
so that's that's one of the biggestthings for me. I I'm not mad
(07:17):
about Mitch Hanner coming back. Ihonestly am a little more upset about losing
Robbie Ray. I think he Alot of people look at oh my gosh's
coming off Tommy John surgery like he'snot gonna be the same picture. That's
just not the way it is anymore. Everyone who comes off that surgery is
just as good. Like there's avery very high percentage of success. I
(07:41):
guess you could say with how thatprocess goes now, and some in some
cases even better. If you lookat Shoheo Toni is a great example of
that. He became a better pictureafter he got the elbow surgery. So
I was actually really looking for abounce back from him. I know you
were paying him a lot, andI know we were kind of expecting him
to be the top end of therotation ace. But when you have three
(08:03):
of them already and you have RobbieRay's your fourth starter, I was I
was totally cool with that. Ithink that's a perfect like fourth starter to
have that you know is going togive you innings. Granted he would only
have half of a year for usthis year, but we still had like
I think, three more years withhim after that, so that one is
(08:24):
kind of honestly a little bit ofa wash to me. Overall, I
think we're giving up about as muchas we're getting back. But the only
the thing that I'm a little upsetwith, and this is the kind of
Colton Wong scope that I have,is like, you know that deal itself,
Okay, fine, that's better thanwhat we had before. Like yesterday,
(08:45):
what I said on Twitter was thismakes us better than yesterday, But
I don't think it makes us betterthan last year because I would have rather,
like I said, had Tao,I think there's better outfield upgrade options,
And this tells me that they're leaningon Mitch Handiger to be a starting
outfielder for them. So if youput it in that scope, I'm not
entirely thrilled about it, But Imean, there's worse deals to have you
(09:07):
had. It's not a full onsalary dump of Robbie Ray because you're still
paying Mitchanniger fourteen million dollars next year, but you're saving some money in the
process, I guess. Yeah,So long term for sure, Yeah,
and uh and day Skofani. Younever know. It's that's some god.
They just love their starting pitching,don't they. They can't make a deal
without getting a starting pitcher back.They can't have enough of it. No,
(09:30):
what about you? Ah well,here are the two things I like
about it. At least you tradedfrom depth. Yeah, I agree to
get offense, which is what youneed. And then number two, you
did not tap into the money thatyou dumped. Right. So, in
other words, as we've discussed before, you cleared about thirty million dollars by
(09:54):
not signing Tao, by trading Gino, and by trading Jared to get rid
of Evan and Marco's contracts. Soyou created thirty million, and apparently you
created that, this is the wayI'm reading it, so that you could
spend that. We're not adding topayroll this offseason, which is a crying
shame and we all know that.But if the idea was that we can
(10:20):
spend what we just created, youdidn't dip into that at all. This
could gain more. This actually itbreaks even across the board. So Ray
was owed twenty three. And thenyou've got a no, I think you're
right. Yeah, hanneger is seventeenand Discliffani is twenty. That's right,
(10:43):
it does break even, okay,and then seventeen and then Discliffani's twelve,
so that's twenty nine, and thenGray was twenty three, and then you
get the six, so it doesbreak even. But the good news is
that you didn't dip into apparently theonly money that we have to spend the
rest of the way. But thatdoesn't do us any good if you don't
then make another move or two tospend some of that money. And by
(11:07):
the way, we're all keeping track, so you're not going to get away
with it, because frankly, whatthis looks like to me, and and
I'm sorry, I think the fanbase that they duped you because they it
looks like a magic trick. We'regoing to give you what we have.
(11:28):
We're experiencing horrible pr we're having ahard time finding offense because we're not allowed
to spend any money, and soin order to silence you a little bit,
to appease you, we're bringing backsomebody that you love and everyone knows,
even though I don't think he hasanything left. And that's that's the
(11:52):
sad part of my evaluation. Ihope he does. When Mitch and is
healthy, he can play. Weall know that. But my gosh,
I mean, he didn't have justan injury last year. He had three.
Yeah, how many games he played? Like ten sixty one? He
(12:13):
had three different injuries. His lastyear with US. He had COVID,
which kept him out over the maximumamount of time, and then he had
an ankle. He turned his ankleand missed eighty games. Missed half a
season with a turned ankle. Yeah, and so this is divish talks about
(12:35):
this a lot. Don't bag onHanneger. I mean that guy had two
really flukey injuries that messed him up. And the fact that he came back
from that and put together a careeryear, yeah, I admire it too.
But the truth of the matter iswhatever he has experienced with those two
massive injuries, I mean I thinkit's affected his ability to heal. Yeah.
(13:01):
And now he's older. I meanusually in the mid thirties you don't
get healthier. Yeah, not usually. No, So yeah, we added
some offense. If it plays,yeah, and that's my concern. Look,
I root for him because I likehim, yep, and I know
(13:22):
that the fan base likes him.And I know that when he's healthy,
he's good. But he has notbeen healthy now in three years. He's
only been healthy twice for two seasonsin his entire career. And he's thirty
three years old. Okay, sothis is not some young body. This
is a thirty three year old who'sbeen through it. Yeah, I don't
(13:43):
think he's capable of staying healthy andersYeah. I mean, so, I
don't know how anybody could like thistrade. The only way you can like
this trade is if you're getting theMitch you know and love. Yeah,
and if there's a lot of peoplethat I've talked to that are lower on
Robbie Ray than they should be.To be honest, I agree with that.
So we talked about that our lastepisode, Right, I agree with
(14:05):
that. His year that he hadin twenty twenty two, while it wasn't
cy young stuff, he's he's goingto go out every single day. He's
gonna throw you a lot of strikeouts. He's not a he's not a high
leverage lefty reliever, as we sawin the playoffs. That's not his role.
But I mean, I think that'swhat everyone kind of remembers him for.
But he had a good year.It was it was fine. He
(14:26):
was our fourth best starter. Butthat's a really good rotation. That's a
good thing to have. So yeah, I think I think the majority of
fans that I at least I've talkedto maybe I'm in different circles than you
are, is that they were lowon Robbie Ray and they love Mitch Hanniger
and they, you know, yeah, feel like that they should be happy
(14:46):
about this. Well, and Ithink that's what they And that's what they
just did to you. Yeah,Like you hate Jerry Depoto so much,
and he just duped you. Yeah, he brought back somebody you like,
he didn't add to the payroll,and and you, and and you.
This is the only move you've applaudedsome of you in years. And it's
(15:13):
bad. One of the worst onesthat he's had, I think. I
mean, if he's healthy, Iget it, and it makes sense,
and yet I just don't think it'sgonna work out. However, Like Tom
Verducci is one of my favorites.Yeah, I think he's as good as
analysis as any player out there.He really knows the game. He thinks
(15:33):
it makes the Mariners a little bitbetter. Those were his words, I
think it does make the limb alittle bit better. But then in the
same breath, they were asked,what do you think Robbie Ray can be
again after this injury, and hesaid, oh, I think he can
return to his cy Young form.So wait a minute. You think that
if Robbie Ray returns to his cyyoung form and you can get two and
(15:54):
a half years out of that forsomebody, that if he can return to
what he was, Yeah, thenyou've got a good outfielder. Yeah,
not a great one, not evena very good one, No, just
just a good one, but aboveaverage, oh certainly. Yeah, not
quite all star caliber but close.Yeah. But that's also we're two and
(16:18):
a half years removed from that player, and he's thirty three, and he's
thirty three years old, and he'sonly been healthy two times in his entire
career. Yeah, and he's comingoff three different injuries and one of those
was the low back, which hestill is not recovered from. And back
injury has really scared me. That'ssomething that lingers. Yeah, sure so,
(16:41):
I I mean, and then there'sthe other aspect. He's not a
clubhouse guy. Robbie raised more ofa clubhouse guy. Than Mitch Handier,
exactly what I was about to bringup. So, Miner is a very
likable guy everybody on the team,like Mitch Hanniger. Yeah, he was
one of those like down, headdown, go about my business, work
hard, you don't shave my head, send me out there, and I'm
(17:03):
ready to go for you. He'sthat guy, and everybody admires him for
his hard work ethic, for comingback from the injuries. But he sat
there on more than one occasion acrossfrom a table from me and told me,
flat to my face, I'm nota leader. Yeah, I'm more
of a leader by example, notto mention. That's not a bad thing.
That's not a bad thing at all. But he's for those that are
(17:25):
hung up on like leadership. Yes, and I heard a lot of comments
about, well, you got agreat leader back. No you didn't.
You didn't get a leader back.That's not what he is. Most people
kind of putting in the two likekind of same category that, oh,
if you call out ownership, thatyou're a good leader. It's like with
the police wall, the Marco Gonzalezand all those were hanneger gout, they're
(17:48):
all gone. Exactly. I mean, he fit really well with I mean,
he and Tom Murphy were buds.Yeah, gone. I and Kyle
Seegert were buds gone. Marco onye see you all gone, Kendall Graveman
gone. Those were all those guyswere all tight and they're all gone.
So he's not even gonna fit thatniche for you. So man, I
(18:15):
want to like it, and Iwant to believe, like everybody, I
like a lot of you out therelistening, that Mitch Andiger can come back
from it. But I just ifI'm being honest with you, and that's
all I can do is a talkshow Oks Andrews, I don't think he'll
ever be healthy again. Yeah,and for that now, you're paying somebody
thirty two and a half million dollarsover the next couple of years. And
(18:37):
I think, Robbie, you tradedthe guy with a better chance of being
healthy, yes, over the courseof his contract than the two that you
got back. I completely agree,And I go back to what people think.
They probably just kind of put itin perspective of he was, like,
was injured all last year and he'sgonna be gone for half of this
(19:00):
year. That means he's an injuryrisk going forward. No, that's not
how Tommy John works. It's youare back like to one hundred, like
sometimes stronger. Yeah, exactly likewhat we talked about. So I just
I think and for someone who didn'thave an injury record before Robbie Ray,
he was a guy that would throwone hundred and fifty plus innings every single
(19:21):
year, and he got I don'tknow, I just he got a guy
that hasn't been healthy in two anda half years, so or a year
and a half, I should say. And likable, no question about it.
But I mean Robbie Ray was haddeveloped into like one of Scott's top
(19:41):
I don't know what Scott did wrong. Yeah, Jerry, yeah, justin,
but they've traded away like his allhis guys, favorite players, you
know, and Robbie Ray. Yeah, both gone in one off season.
Yeah, and he's always spoke Ihave Teo as well. Uh so that
that's that's tough man. Yeah,I don't know, and especially for I'll
(20:02):
say one more thing about this,this trade, especially for a young pitching
staff as young of one as wehave, it's good to have. I
get you got Castillo, but evenhe's kind of on the just getting into
veteran status. He's still on theyounger side. I think Robbie Rays has
been there around the block and onthree different teams now for he's been in
playoff races. He's been in theplayoffs like he's he's the type of guy
(20:26):
that can lead a young pitching staffand kind of help him develop into who
they should be and teaching to bepros and everything. So and for an
organization that is so you know,committed to keeping their pitching, yes,
I mean, okay, so you'regonna start this season with five I think
excellent, excellent, excellent starters.Odds are by the All Star break you're
(20:47):
gonna lose one of those guys toan injury, yeah, or trade.
I'm gonna knock on Wood. ButI mean Castillo doesn't have a perfect injury
history, not know, and everybodyelse is young. You don't know how
there You don't know how two ofthem are going to respond to this pitching
is all four of them, howthey're going to respond the following year after
pitching the most innings of their life, particularly Brian Woo And now you would
(21:08):
have had this little ace in yourhole, literally an ace in the hole
that Robbie Ray's ready by the AllStar break and steps in if one of
those five can't make it to thebreak, and you're not just going to
some farm hand, You're going toa twenty five million dollars per year guy
that you brought in to be.I mean he was your opening day starter,
(21:30):
yeah, just two years ago,and he was the off season edition.
He's probably the marquee off season editionof the Jerry Depoto tenure, to
be honest. So yeah, Iate to be the bearer of bad news.
I mean, this isn't the firsttime I haven't seen eye to eye
with the majority of the fan base, that's for sure. Yeah. It
just does not It just does notcome off well. And I think you're
(21:53):
right. I think they put iton Friday to bury it, Yeah,
so that we wouldn't talk about it, just in case people hated it.
And it turns out people like itbecause you waived something familiar in front of
people's faces, even though no onewill acknowledge the severe limitations that Mitch Hanniger
(22:14):
has as a baseball player. Yeah, and the initial reaction that I got
from both like national analysts and theones that I trust, like around here,
were, oh, I love thistrade for the Giants. Yes.
So when that's the first reaction,it's like, Okay, I mean you
obviously thankfully it's not like you said, it's a position of depth, so
(22:36):
it's you're not really limiting yourself aton, But you could have I don't
know, you could have done somuch more with that. I feel like,
so, yeah, it's h it'stough for me. I see both
sides of it. There was alsoanother one that went down like just a
couple hours later, between the TampaBay Rays and the Seattle Mariners. Kind
(22:56):
of seemed like because the names thatwere involved, a lesser deal. But
I think you and I both agreeon this and a few others that I've
talked to as well, that thisis actually the better trade that the Mariners
made. Yeah, I actually likethis one. I do too. They
sent Jose Caberro, again fan favorite. But you know, we have lots
(23:17):
of utility men, and he hasa lot I think, probably the most
value out of all of them sincehe's the youngest. Uh. And then
we got Luke Rayley, who canplay what six different positions, who's a
left left handed bat who has hassome pop. He was kind of more
of a platoon bat for the Rayslast year, but I think he has
the ability to be an everyday starter. It can play, you know,
(23:40):
all the outfield positions. Seems likeyou can play first base as well.
You know, what are your reactionsto getting Luke Rayley for sending out Jose
Caber to the Tampa Bay Rays?Well, I like, if him the
standpoint first and foremost of you yougot something you don't have, yes,
for something you have in excess.Yes, So we had to move some
(24:03):
sort of middle infielder. I thinkit would probably be moved him to move
to move another one between now andthe start of the season, and I
think that's a real possibility. Imean, it would surprise me if Cabairo
goes to Tampa tears it up andyou know, as a fifteen forty guy,
I mean they're playing on making himthe starting shortstop. But I wasn't
(24:26):
a big fan of him here.The only I I don't have a problem
at all losing Cabaio. And Ithink Raley, although a late bloomer at
the major league level, he wasreally good last year, really good last
year. Yeah, and believe itor not, like this is a big
(24:47):
dude. There's a big looks likeI don't even know where he's from,
but he looks like a farm boy, you know, like that country strong
kind of thing where you know yousend him off the bus. He looks
like a big dude and has thatfarm boy named Yeah, but he's fast.
He cle Ohio is where he's from. Okay, Yeah, a little
(25:07):
Midwest farm boy. But he's fast. And you see him and you don't
think that that's going to be partof his repertoire. It is. He's
faster foot speed, straight ahead footspeed than Randy Rose Arena. Really wow,
That actually very much surprises me.Now, it doesn't have the burst
because he's got too much weight toget going. But once he gets going,
(25:27):
I mean, he was in doubledigits and stolen bases last year.
He was in double digits and homeruns last year. And that's playing,
as you mentioned, in a platoonrole like a lot of Tampa players get
get caught in that. I don'tknow if he'll play against all lefties this
year, but I think he'll playagainst some. And you hit it right
(25:49):
on the head. He can playbecause of that athleticism. He can play
all three of the outfield positions.So he gives you versatility, he gives
you depth, and he gives youa left handed batter, which is another
thing that you and I have wantedto add to this team, a lefty
with a power. But what ofthe cautionary signs? Well, he didn't
(26:11):
really it is stright until age twentynine. That's an even later bloomer than
Cabaero. That's an even later bloomerthan what Hanniger was. So why did
it take him so long to bea contributor to a major league team?
I mean, he'd had a cupof coffee here and there for the previous
few years, but last year wasthe first year where he really had a
(26:33):
regular role. Yeah yeah, andhe contributed well. But why did it
take him so long? Was lastyear the fluke? Where will baseball people
now have an opportunity to kind ofadjust to him after he adjusted to the
league finally, So I don't thinkthat this is a slam dunk. He's
going to be a terrific Mariner.But I do like trading from depth for
(26:55):
something that we lack. We neededan outfielders, especially a corner fielder,
and a left handed hitting corner outfielder. Yeah, I like this move,
and I like adding him to thelineup. Yeah, I completely agree.
Not that projections are everything. Idon't even know they did this, but
on Baseball Reference, I was lookingat his stats. These are what he's
projected to do in twenty twenty four. Again, they're not everything, but
(27:18):
this is what all the nerds thinkthat he might end up doing this year.
Two forty three batting average, threetwenty five on base four forty two
slugging for a seven sixty seven OPS, which would be lower than last year,
but that's still like Tao range fromthe Mariners last year. Let's see
sixteen homers. I think they're onlyprojecting him to have four hundred and ten
(27:41):
plate appearances, so more of aplatoon role. I think that this was
before he got traded to the Mariners, so maybe he gets a few more
onto that with the counting stats,but I think you'd take that at this
point with this outfield, and especiallyknowing how hitters can struggle at at T
mobile a little bit. So Ithink it's more than you're going to get
from CABIERO. Oh yeah, yeah, And and I know fifteen forty probably
(28:02):
exaggerating but I'm just saying that becausethat is not out of the realm in
possibility as a Tampa dust yet,Dude, That's what I'm saying. They
and that's why I think this isa good trade where it's a win win
for both teams. The Mariners getsomething they need, a left handed power
bat, They can play a lotof positions. Tampa loves those utility guys.
They lost their shortstop in the WanderFranco situation forever. Yeah, probably
(28:23):
forever from what I'm seeing, andthey just love those guys that you know,
run super hard around the bases,are super aggressive on the bass paths,
get on bas well. Maybe don'thave the pop of a loud tools
guy, but they just they endup loving those guys and they end up
playing really well down there. SoI would not be surprised to see Caprio
(28:44):
have a lot of success down withTampa, knowing how they develop hit.
Yeah, I do think it eliminatessome of that fantasy trade talk that we
were having on the podcast about arose arena giving back at I agree or
Brandon law or it probably limits thatequation in terms of growing this team from
this point. And and that's thenext thing that we have to discuss,
(29:07):
certainly Andrews is growing go where doyou go from here? I'm going to
be very careful that everybody understands this. I mean, Jerry basically said,
we feel good about our team ifwe took the field right now, but
we have more. We feel wehave more to do. Okay, So
glass half empty person looks at that, and here's that line. Oh they're
(29:30):
done, They're done. That's it. That's what we got, if you
and and I think Jerry's problem isthat he's too honest, you know,
and so usually he's very forthright withus, and so I'm going to take
him at his word that he isstill out there looking. And I'm going
to be highly disappointed if there aren'tmore additions, because you created money by
(29:56):
trading away you know, three orfour good players. You know, you
created that money. You have itto spend without having to add payroll.
So there's our Polanco Kepler trade fromthe Twins is still alive here, and
I would like still like to haveboth of those guys. I'll go ahead
and give up the hope of addinga star like a rose Arena, but
(30:19):
you got a chance on the chiefYou won't have to give up a Wu
or a Miller for either one ofthese guys, even if they came together.
Yeah, you don't have to giveup anything that good. But they're
out there. They're on one yeardeals and it's only ten million dollars per
year, and that's right, theamount of savings that you still haven't spent.
(30:41):
Yep. So I want both ofthem because I do not want Urius
and Rojas and anything but a platoonthis year. I agree with you.
I don't know if they agree withyou, which is unfortunate because this is
like before these two trades, youcould not get away with putting out the
(31:02):
lineup that the Mariners had and saythat you like did your job in the
offseason. You could theoretically do thatwith the players that we have now now
what I think we'd be better thanlast year. No, I still would
take last year's team over this year'steam right now, even though you significantly
significantly upgraded the DH position with MitchGarver and possibly Mitchanager depending on how much
(31:25):
he plays. So I guess youcould throw in one more outfielder for a
realistic target the Mariners are looking for, thinking that maybe Mitchanniger is not going
to play a full season. Ifthey're smart enough to realize that that's his
history, you need. You can'tbe counting on him for one hundred plus
games, so you probably need oneat least one more outfielder. I agree
(31:48):
with you. I'd love to upgradethe infield more. It just seems like
they're kind of resigned to Ureus andRojas, even though that's what they did
say this week that they're looking that'sthe latest report. Really they're in on
release and infielders. Okay, sothey they but but I think you need
an infielder and an outfield Okay,well, I mean yeah, that's why
Minnesota is just always my goat tothis offseason. And both, as you
(32:10):
know, they're both on expiring contractsfor this upcoming year. I don't care
about signing them long term. Giveme a couple guys that I don't care.
If they're even selfish, if they'rehungry about their own careers, then
that benefits the Mariners to this upcomingseason. Uh. And so if you
add this and I'm still keeping youunder what you said you were willing to
(32:30):
spend by adding twenty million dollars tothe payroll. And if that's it,
that's it. But now all ofa sudden, I got a real solution
at second base in Polonko. Ican go ahead and platoon ROAs and Urreus.
I have Kepler out and right field, you know, and it's not
(32:50):
going to be a platoon, butit's protection. Not only can I add
them to the lineup, but itprotects me if Hanneger gets hurt and then
I've got Rayleigh and I could useI could still use Dylan Moore or Haggarty
because Haggarty does still hit lefties.Yep. I could use Haggarty or Dylan
Moore in right field with Raleigh,and that gives me the outfield depth that
(33:14):
I'm looking for. And I andI would think I think the Minnesota Twins
would be interested in something a coupleof minor league prospects and Dylan Moore or
a Haggarty one or the other thatcould help them because they're a team that's
cutting payroll but still trying to wina championship this year, okay, and
(33:34):
so to get that kind of versatilepiece is something that may be a team
that thinks it's good. One ofthose little, tiny difference makers, and
I think that that would have somevalue for them. So I don't think
you have to give up your topprospects for those two. I don't think
that you have to give up anythingthat you really hold all that valuable.
And I think that those would beexcellent additions to this team. You give
(33:57):
me that and I'll be satisfied.Yeah. The thing that worries me is
that the Mariners probably think that they'rein the same situation as the Twins where
they need to cut payroll but alsothink they can win a championship. I
it would be at least the waythis is coming off to me as a
fan and someone who follows the teampretty closely, is that it's not that
they're cutting payroll to then go againand spend it just to get back to
(34:21):
where they were last year. Ithink they're cutting it to cut it and
be lower than it was last year, which would make more sense why you
traded Gino and needed to trade JKbecause well, if that's what happens,
then you know, then they getall of the ammunition they've earned it,
yeah, you know, and they'verenegged yeah on not only their promises from
(34:45):
the past. Then they've renegged withinthe reneg Yeah, because they said that
they were all they were cutting payrollso that they could spend it more effectively.
Yeah, and so if they ifthey do that twice, then they
deserve all of the criticism that theyget, even from the ones who I
feel have been unreasonable the last fewyears. Unload, because that's not what
(35:08):
we were told was going to happen. You already disappointed us, and then
you're gonna lie to us within thedisappointment. No, unacceptable, Yeah,
Yeah, it's it's really interesting.It's crazy that we keep I feel like
we said this the last three yearsthat this offseason is like the turning point
for this front office and this ownership, Like how can they, you know,
(35:32):
gain the fans favorite. It seemslike they did it two years ago
going into the twenty twenty two seasonwhen they traded for Winker, who we
all thought would work out, andand Suarez who did work out, and
then obviously brought up Julio and thenlike even more last year in my opinion,
because you had that momentum from aplayoff run and you made a slight
(35:57):
upgrade with Taoscar Hernandez, but reallynothing else to add to the team kind
of just ran it back. Andnow this year it's like, Okay,
well Wong was supposed to it.I know you never liked it. To
your defense, to your defense,you didn't like it from the outset,
and you ended up being right.But that was that was supposed to be
an upgrade, true, and Hernandezwas supposed to be an upgrade. And
(36:20):
Pollock was supposed to be able todeliver something something you know, and and
and you got not only nothing outof two of those acquisiatives, you got
negative. Yeah, from two ofthose acquisitions. I didn't see them being
that bad, that's for sure.I would say, you know, through
the history of this rebuild, Idon't think I've had a problem until the
(36:44):
trading deadline this past year. Now. I railed over the Kendall Graveman trade.
Fair enough in twenty twenty one.Yeah, but let's be can we
be honest about something. We weren'texpecting that team to be that good.
We were not. We were notexpecting that team to be a contender.
But once they had earned content andthey should have been rewarded and not punished.
(37:04):
And so that's what I railed against. Is hey, any team that
overachieves and says to you, wewant to be in the playoffs this year.
You need to reward that team.This is baseball, man, You
know, anything can happen in theplayoffs. But in terms of the development
of this team into a championship caliberteam, even last offseason, I didn't
(37:25):
love it. I didn't I didn'teven really like it. But to me,
there was enough of an effort tosay we're gonna be better this year.
Yea than we were at the endof last year. Yeah, I
agree with that. You know,there's not that right now, And there's
not that right now since the tradingdeadline until now, something's gone awry and
I don't and and and so,whatever they're doing with their finances, it's
(37:51):
a downright shame because there was alot of great work that went into this
rebuild and it was on the precipiceof a special something generating playoff appearance after
playoff appearance, and instead somebody decidedthat's not important. So and since that
time, since the trading deadline oflast year, it's been nothing but disappointment.
(38:15):
Yeah, it has been nothing butthat line of thinking of it's not
that important anymore. Yeah, thatwe finished this thing. Yeah, and
I don't think it's coming from Jerry, right, And if it is coming
from Jerry, then't get rid ofhim. Yeah, but I don't think
it's coming from Jerry, and Iknow it's not coming from Justin. Yeah,
what GM wouldn't want to make theirbaseball team better? I agree with
(38:37):
that. It's just I don't know. I honestly don't know. I wish
I could have be a fly onthe wall on those talks behind the scenes
and what's going on. But yeah, I really hope for better things for
this team. Maybe there's a magicmove coming that they've feel freed up all
the space so they could do.Maybe they're signing Blake Snow, I don't
know who the hell knows anymore.Well, if it's twenty million, then
(38:57):
they could. If and they justmake this Ray trade and you don't you
didn't knife into any of that thatyou that pool of money that you just
cut, then you could before afree agent out there, and fifteen to
twenty million dollars free agent, you'dfill a pretty big hole on this team.
So, but they need to spendit. Yeah, I get okay,
(39:22):
Fine, I'd feel good if ourteam took the field right now.
Fine, that's great that you feelthat way, but make it better.
Yeah, you could still make itbetter. And I think that's the way
I like you said. Jerry's muchtoo honest. I feel like with his
appearances, at least to the media. But the way I read what he
said is that you know, they'reprobably, like he said, satisfied with
(39:45):
what they've done, but they're gonnatry and make more moves, but not
like be desperate to go and getsomething else that they feel like they don't
need. So they're tempering expectations.Yeah, which, and then if they
end up doing something pretty neat thenpeople will be happy. Then people it
will be unexpected, Yeah, becauseI think people read that line from him
and are like, we're done.Yeah, but it's only January eighth,
(40:10):
so and and pretty much all offree agency is still That's the other things.
The Marriage have been the second mostactive team in baseball after the Dodgers
at this point in off season.Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah,
with at least how many moves they'vemade, it's not like they've been
positive and like they're going for it. But other than the second most active
(40:30):
team in baseball, which is kindof weird, by the way, and
this fits in a Mariner's podcast.They did it again, the Dodger.
Oh, I know, I wasgoing to bring it up. I was
going to bring it up. Don'tworry ta Oscar Hernandez. Sign's a one
year, twenty three and a halfmillion dollar deal, but defers nine million
of that to what has happened?Who's paying this bill in twenty thirty through
(40:55):
twenty thirty nine? I don't evenknow. Man, time they've done this,
They're they're cheating. They don't haveany choice. Baseball's like, look,
you found a loophole, now you'reabusing it. Now we got to
create a rule to close the loophole, which was perfectly fine. Been doing
this for decades now and nobody hasexploited this loophole. And now your what
(41:21):
are you doing? Who's paying thismoney in twenty thirty to twenty thirty nine?
What is your plan? No idea? I over one hundred million,
They're well over one hundred million dollarsthat they owe to to players that won't
be on their run, will beretired by then. Yes, I don't
know what. It doesn't doesn't seemright. But Taos now added to the
(41:45):
Dodgers. All right, so takeout the deferred part about it. But
would you rather have Tao for twentythree and a half million or Mitch Hannager
for nineteen tell you okay, becauseI think he'll play. Yeah, I
again, I like Mitch Hannager theplayer. I just don't trust that he
(42:07):
is ever going to be healthy.Again, I agree, And I'm not
even talking like for a full season. Anders. I don't think he can
make it through a half a season. Yeah, that's where I think he's
at right now. Now. He'sa hard worker. Yeah, I really
hope he can figure it out,you know, because he's a guy I
like. Well. I yeah,his last full season in a Mariner uniform,
(42:30):
he nearly carried the team on hisback to the playoffs. And and
he's and I like him. Ido like him. I just don't know
if he can stay healthy. Butthey've gone through all of this and they
have kept their core pitching together.They're youngsters, and it's the envy of
baseball. They're young starting pitching thatthey have, and you can use you
(42:53):
can include Castillo in that conversation.So apparently that was their objective. You
know, we'll trade away Scott Servis'sbest buddy and our biggest free agent move
since Robinson Cano for a very questionablehealth outfielder and a number six starter.
(43:16):
You know, so we'll we'll tradethat. And so you know, you
give that up rather than touch anyof your young pitchers. And here's here's
the truth. Here's your silver liningin all of this. That pitching can
carry you for one hundred and sixtytwo games. It can, and as
(43:38):
long as you're okay offensively, it'llbe in the hunt. You can be
in the hunt. And if youoverachieve even the slightest bit offensively, you're
in the playoffs. Yeah. Thislast year's team underachieved and missed the playoffs
by a game. Think about thelevels of underachievement long not contributing, the
(44:00):
Polock not contributing, the dads ofstrikeouts, the failures with runners in scoring
position, the failures with runners atthird in less than two outs, the
Tao career down here. You know, I mean, anywhere you turn you
can find like a disappointment last offseason. Then they still, because their pitching
(44:21):
is so good and Julio special,they still missed the playoffs by a game.
And I think that's the most frustratingpart about all this is they have
a good enough pitching to be oneof the best teams in baseball, and
if they just made a you don'teven have to have one of the best
offenses. You just made a reliable, solid, like three or four editions
(44:42):
where you know that they're going tocontribute and commit to them. That it
feels like we could have like somethingso so special here where instead of being
the difference between you know, howyour offense performs, between you know,
making the playoffs or not make inthe playoffs, it would be winning the
division versus being a wildcard team.I think that's the difference. And I
(45:05):
think that's what most fans and memyself, I want that. I want
us to be that team where wehave the chance to win one hundred plus
games if if the offense overachieves,but even if we underachieve, we're still
a wildcard team and we can stillmake a run in the playoffs. That's
what I want us to be.Well, that's where we all agree.
Yeah, no matter what side ofthe isle you've been on in the Depoto
wars, it's where we all agree. Is that this team with just a
(45:27):
couple of aggressive, smart, offensiveadditions could be special. I mean,
you know, text Strangers won theWorld Series with a lot of holes holes
in that lineup, and they justbeat the Mariners by two games, And
they wouldn't have beat them at allif the Mariners didn't gag on the last
week of the last couple of weeksof the year for the last ten games.
(45:51):
Yeah. Yeah, And so there'snot that much different. And the
Astros are going to be a littlebit worse again this year, yeap.
They're going to continue to come backdown to earth. Yeah, they were
worse this year, as I knowI told you, but going into the
season, they're still the team tobe, but they're not going to be
as good as what they were intheir championship years. And they were a
little bit worse, and they're goingto be a little bit worse next year.
(46:13):
Angels are going to be bad,no, Tawny. It's they're like
they're gonna be rebuilding all there.Obviously, the is that the window is
open. The window is open,but it doesn't seem like anyone wants to
walk through it at this point.So it's very and that it's extremely frustrating,
and I understand that. But asI softy text me after all these
trades went down, and I senthim my nuts thoughts not so terrific review
(46:37):
of the Hanniger trade, and thenI just put at the end a week
in pitch. Yeah, so that'sthe silver lining in it all. And
they kept it all young and old. Yeah, that's healthy at this moment.
So that's the other thing though aboutthe young pitching though, is you're
going to have to extend them eventually. So I would have thought, at
(46:58):
least for me, I would havetried to keep the guy that you have
already signed and like have through threemore years, you know. And I'm
glad you brought that. Yeah,because that needs to be pointed out in
this podcast. They have a reallyhard time and this is the tone excuse
me, the tone deafness of JerryDepoto. Not only does he just not
(47:19):
even care about clubhouse chemistry now,doesn't even register, does not give a
crap about team chemistry, doesn't careif people are angry with him, does
not care, doesn't care if hiscaptain won't even speak to him, doesn't
care. Okay, so he's tonedeaf to that he does not think it's
(47:39):
important, does not think it's valuable, And I think he really makes Scott
Servis's job one of the hardest inthe entire sport. But then then there's
another breed. I mean, he'sout there in free agency and he knows
that there aren't a lot of peoplethat want to play here because Jerry reputation,
(48:00):
because of the cold weather for thefirst half of the season, because
of the images they see on thenews of downtown Seattle, that's where I
got to play my game where allof those pickets are. Oh, you
mean that one block that was occupiedfor like a month during COVID when we
weren't going outside anyway. But peoplesee that and they have a hard enough
(48:24):
time trying to get people to comeand want to be a Mariner, not
to mention a history without a championship. Yeah, and then you got guys
like Paul Sewald and Robbie Ray whoboth want to be here. Robbie Ray
chose here. Yes, Robbie Raypulled a Felix Hernandez. He said,
(48:44):
I can go anywhere I want.I'm coming off of cy young season and
I want to play for the SeattleMariners. You can't chase off of the
guys that want to be here.I mean, Mitch was even Mitch he
said he wanted to be wanted,wrote the athletics store, Yeah, and
(49:07):
chased him off then brought him back. I mean, I just don't think
you're in a position to chase offall star caliber talent that actually wants to
be here and has found a homehere and likes it here. That's not
a great Cal Rowley wants to behere. But if you don't start changing
(49:27):
the way that you do things,he's going to demand a trade. I
know his agent, you know he'snot He's going to demand to be to
leave. This guy that goes tothe Kracking games and Kracking's out and hangs
out with Joey Decourt. He wantsto be a Seattle Mayrin. He's an
icon in this city. Honestly,he's one of the fan favorites. If
(49:50):
you were to pull like number two, yeah, after Jululjo Yeah, and
maybe like yeah. Honestly, that'sit's crazy to think about that. It
just doesn't matter to some people.That doesn't matter. It's got to matter
a little bit, and I thinkthat's I think those are the those are
the two big issues with Jerry asan executive. He doesn't he just he
(50:13):
just there's a tone deafness about him, and it's very irritating. And and
the Trader Jerry reputation is bounced back. You had a plan. It was
Robbie Ray. It was all aboutRobbie Ray, all about Robbie Ray.
And then he's gone, just likethat, and it felt like a salary
dump and people didn't really notice itbecause you got distracted by Mitch Handiger returning.
(50:38):
You know, it's a magic trick. Is I got Mitch Haniger over
here, a little sleight of hand. Meanwhile, I'm picking your pocket.
Yeah, that's what he did.So it's frustrating. But as you and
I both agree, I mean,make make one or two good smart moves.
You're a playoff team, I agree. I mean yeah, that kind
(51:00):
of wraps it up for me.I'm just h I hope they make some
more moves. I hope this isn'tit. I have a feeling it might
be it if they nothing really screamsat them, Well, it shouldn't be.
Yeah, there's no reason that itshould be. You do not have
a complete lineup, and you whodid I just compare Mitch Garver to in
our last episode. I don't rememberMitch Hanniger. Yeah, you know,
(51:23):
Mitch, the two mitches who areevery other year players. Because of injury,
you can't hopefully the two combined willgive you a full season. Yeah,
there's no chance that both of thoseguys are staying playing one hundred and
forty games. I agree healthy thisyear. So if you're counting on that,
I mean, I'm seeing these mocklineups that are being put together and
(51:45):
Garver hitting third and Hanneger hitting fifth. I mean, Mitch Garver's not hitting
you know, third. No,No, Mitch Garver should be hitting fifth.
Yeah, I agree. And thenMitch Hanniger sixth, seven, Yeah,
sixth or seventh. Yeah, that'sthat's what you need. So what
(52:06):
does that tell you we need anumber three hitter? Yeah? And maybe,
and I'm kind of giving up thehope that like a Rose Arena would
have been the choice there. Butif you can add to the depth,
if you can bring in a Keplerand or Polanco, all right, you're
fine. At least I've got onethrough nine that's a little bit better.
(52:29):
And maybe I don't need to havea classic number three hitter. Yeah,
protecting Julio. But you got tohave somebody to protect Julio. I'm with
you on that one. Yeah,all right, that'll do it for us.
Thanks for joining us, so weappreciate it. I don't know,
maybe we'll crow it again on Thursday. Yeah, of course we're gonna have
a trade here in a matter ofminutes. We've got to react to it,
right. Crazy to me, Andrew'sa chuck that a podcast might as
(52:51):
well make a move and ruin it. Uh So, hope you enjoy it.
Check out Chucking Bucks six to tenMonday through Friday, and of course,
make sure you're listening to the entiresports talk radio lineup at Sports Radio
ninety three point three k j Ar f M. We'll stove again next week
Stove. What kind of name isthat. It's Monday, January eighth.
(00:24):
I'm going to say that because youknow when your podcast and the plan has
to do it once a week,Yes, off season Mariners podcast. You
know, trying to pick the exacttime of the week where you can maximize
the amount of your weekly podcast andkeep it fresh turns out as hard.
(00:53):
If you want a trade to godown for the Mariners, look no further
than the Stove Podcast. Always rightafter we do it. That's right.
We ignite the Stove like nobody's business. Yeah, it's it's weird that we
talked about this right before we startedrecording that it's the last three big Marritor's
moves have come at very inopportune times, shall we say, in accordance with
(01:15):
our schedule. I mean this hasto be the first topic. Andrews Hurst
Chuck Powell with you. It's ourStove podcast. So we did, I
mean we would. The idea isto do it every Thursday, right after
the radio ten thirty every Thursday.Yeah, and we got like a day
yeah, out of the podcast,not even that by the time it was
(01:38):
posted and we started promoting it.Yeah, it was the next day before
we would have Yeah, yeah,less than a day. So I take
a nap every well every day really, but every Friday I take a nap.
And then I woke up and Iget these two texts that i'd seen.
They didn't wake me up, No, okay, thank god? Yeah,
and it was do you want tore record? And I'm like,
(02:00):
oh, no, what happened?Do we have an audio failure or something?
Did it not take? What happened? And then all of a sudden,
I'm the cobwebs and starting to clearthem out of my head. I'm
like, wait a minute, becausethe other one was this happens to us
every time? And I'm like,was there a trade? I scramble to
(02:21):
find my computer because my phone's tooslow. I didn't even have the patience
for that scramble to find my computer, and not just a trade to trade?
Yeah, two big ones. Well, I was napping the day after
the last recording. Same thing happenedafter the Geno trade or before the Geno
(02:43):
raeah yeah broadcast right before and theCalnick trade. Yeah, so we are
magic for creating Jerry Depoto moves.And then the Mitch Garb one even you
could throw in there, too,not that you know, that was bad
timing. I mean, it waskind of bad timing for everyone. They
did that on Christmas Eve us,so at least it came out on Christmas
Eve. So obviously we're not goingto be recording a podcast on Christmas Eve.
We're with our families and everything.But yeah, no, the biggest
(03:07):
Mariners moves have come at the mostinopportune times for our podcast. But that's
fine. That means that they're listeningto us, and every time that we
talk about something, they're like,all right, we gotta do something else.
Maybe we get into their heads alittle bit. I don't know.
I don't know what's going on here. I really don't. Well, I
don't know how many Stove listeners are, but of the few that I believe
(03:29):
are truly dedicated, they're telling thejoke. Hey you guys, gotta you
guys. This is remarkable. You'reyou know how quickly they are making your
podcast obsolete? So who knows herewe are? I'm telling you the day
we're doing a special one on Monday. Normally do it on Thursday. We're
doing all one on Monday, Januaryeighth. So if Jerry's just locked into
(03:52):
making moves on Fridays or on ChristmasEve. Yeah, it really feels like
it's been a lot of kind ofthe news dump because us in the industry,
we kind of understand the process ofeverything. Right. When you want
to kind of hide a story,it's usually on a Friday after like it's
close to the end of the daywhen everyone goes to the weekend. You
know you're not gonna be able totalk about it very much on sports radio
(04:14):
for the rest of the week.And if you want to like make something
front and center, it's on likea Monday, so you can talk about
it all week and have it beon all the shows. Yeah, Or
do it, as you said,on a Friday on the last week of
the regular season, when you're playingfor a national championship, Yeah, on
Monday night in your town or onChristmas Eve. Then no one will ever
talk about it. Yeah, whichis kind of weird to me because you
(04:36):
know, as we look at thesedeals, we can kind of break them
down here in a second, ina vacuum. I don't really mind them.
I mean, we can talk aboutwhat this means for the Mariners,
and they're sort of upgrades. Iguess you could say, some familiar faces
both going in and coming out orcoming in and going out, I should
(04:58):
say, and we can chat about, you know, how this looks for
the Mariners going forward. So let'sjust uh for if you haven't heard.
Yeah, the first deal the Marinersmade was the marriage traded away Robbie Ray
to the San Francisco Giants, andin return they get Mitch Haniger back,
(05:18):
Anthony days Sclafani, who's a goodback end starter, and six million dollars
in cash. It's probably the mostvaluable thing that they thought they received,
to be honest. Uh So beforewe break down the second trade with the
Rays, what were your initial reactionsto getting Mitch Haniger back but then also
losing Robbie Ray in the process.Actually I want yours because I what is
(05:43):
what are your thoughts on this?I mean, I know the last couple
of years, you know, Ifound out in this podcast we seed iye
do ee on a lot more things, yeah than what I realized. Just
kind of its following you on Twitterand yeah, having you on the show
as our producer everyone in a while, I thought we would end up disagreeing
more than we actually do. Sowe're not that far off in our feelings,
(06:06):
but I know that Mitch Hanniger issuch a fan favorite. He is
and people will rally to his defenseon things, and I like him too,
don't get me wrong, but I'vebeen a little more critical than what
the fan base here wants me tobe with their guy Mitch. So what
are your thoughts on this? It'sfunny you say that, because that's basically
(06:29):
exactly how I feel about Mitch Haniger. I think he's a great dude.
Obviously, he's one of the guysin the clubhouse where he was when he
was here, and he's had acouple of big moments for the Mariners,
a couple of big years too,on twenty twenty two and in twenty seventeen.
I think his two like really reallygood years where I think you can
be better. And I was happywhen the Mariners didn't extend him and then
(06:54):
went and traded for Tasker Herdannez.I thought that was a pretty not super
signific an upgrade, but it wasa noticeable upgrade, I would say,
at least going into the the process. I think it was. Yeah,
it was mainly honestly. The mainreason is because he played every day,
so that's that's one of the biggestthings for me. I I'm not mad
(07:17):
about Mitch Hanner coming back. Ihonestly am a little more upset about losing
Robbie Ray. I think he Alot of people look at oh my gosh's
coming off Tommy John surgery like he'snot gonna be the same picture. That's
just not the way it is anymore. Everyone who comes off that surgery is
just as good. Like there's avery very high percentage of success. I
(07:41):
guess you could say with how thatprocess goes now, and some in some
cases even better. If you lookat Shoheo Toni is a great example of
that. He became a better pictureafter he got the elbow surgery. So
I was actually really looking for abounce back from him. I know you
were paying him a lot, andI know we were kind of expecting him
to be the top end of therotation ace. But when you have three
(08:03):
of them already and you have RobbieRay's your fourth starter, I was I
was totally cool with that. Ithink that's a perfect like fourth starter to
have that you know is going togive you innings. Granted he would only
have half of a year for usthis year, but we still had like
I think, three more years withhim after that, so that one is
(08:24):
kind of honestly a little bit ofa wash to me. Overall, I
think we're giving up about as muchas we're getting back. But the only
the thing that I'm a little upsetwith, and this is the kind of
Colton Wong scope that I have,is like, you know that deal itself,
Okay, fine, that's better thanwhat we had before. Like yesterday,
(08:45):
what I said on Twitter was thismakes us better than yesterday, But
I don't think it makes us betterthan last year because I would have rather,
like I said, had Tao,I think there's better outfield upgrade options,
And this tells me that they're leaningon Mitch Handiger to be a starting
outfielder for them. So if youput it in that scope, I'm not
entirely thrilled about it, But Imean, there's worse deals to have you
(09:07):
had. It's not a full onsalary dump of Robbie Ray because you're still
paying Mitchanniger fourteen million dollars next year, but you're saving some money in the
process, I guess. Yeah,So long term for sure, Yeah,
and uh and day Skofani. Younever know. It's that's some god.
They just love their starting pitching,don't they. They can't make a deal
without getting a starting pitcher back.They can't have enough of it. No,
(09:30):
what about you? Ah well,here are the two things I like
about it. At least you tradedfrom depth. Yeah, I agree to
get offense, which is what youneed. And then number two, you
did not tap into the money thatyou dumped. Right. So, in
other words, as we've discussed before, you cleared about thirty million dollars by
(09:54):
not signing Tao, by trading Gino, and by trading Jared to get rid
of Evan and Marco's contracts. Soyou created thirty million, and apparently you
created that, this is the wayI'm reading it, so that you could
spend that. We're not adding topayroll this offseason, which is a crying
shame and we all know that.But if the idea was that we can
(10:20):
spend what we just created, youdidn't dip into that at all. This
could gain more. This actually itbreaks even across the board. So Ray
was owed twenty three. And thenyou've got a no, I think you're
right. Yeah, hanneger is seventeenand Discliffani is twenty. That's right,
(10:43):
it does break even, okay,and then seventeen and then Discliffani's twelve,
so that's twenty nine, and thenGray was twenty three, and then you
get the six, so it doesbreak even. But the good news is
that you didn't dip into apparently theonly money that we have to spend the
rest of the way. But thatdoesn't do us any good if you don't
then make another move or two tospend some of that money. And by
(11:07):
the way, we're all keeping track, so you're not going to get away
with it, because frankly, whatthis looks like to me, and and
I'm sorry, I think the fanbase that they duped you because they it
looks like a magic trick. We'regoing to give you what we have.
(11:28):
We're experiencing horrible pr we're having ahard time finding offense because we're not allowed
to spend any money, and soin order to silence you a little bit,
to appease you, we're bringing backsomebody that you love and everyone knows,
even though I don't think he hasanything left. And that's that's the
(11:52):
sad part of my evaluation. Ihope he does. When Mitch and is
healthy, he can play. Weall know that. But my gosh,
I mean, he didn't have justan injury last year. He had three.
Yeah, how many games he played? Like ten sixty one? He
(12:13):
had three different injuries. His lastyear with US. He had COVID,
which kept him out over the maximumamount of time, and then he had
an ankle. He turned his ankleand missed eighty games. Missed half a
season with a turned ankle. Yeah, and so this is divish talks about
(12:35):
this a lot. Don't bag onHanneger. I mean that guy had two
really flukey injuries that messed him up. And the fact that he came back
from that and put together a careeryear, yeah, I admire it too.
But the truth of the matter iswhatever he has experienced with those two
massive injuries, I mean I thinkit's affected his ability to heal. Yeah.
(13:01):
And now he's older. I meanusually in the mid thirties you don't
get healthier. Yeah, not usually. No, So yeah, we added
some offense. If it plays,yeah, and that's my concern. Look,
I root for him because I likehim, yep, and I know
(13:22):
that the fan base likes him.And I know that when he's healthy,
he's good. But he has notbeen healthy now in three years. He's
only been healthy twice for two seasonsin his entire career. And he's thirty
three years old. Okay, sothis is not some young body. This
is a thirty three year old who'sbeen through it. Yeah, I don't
(13:43):
think he's capable of staying healthy andersYeah. I mean, so, I
don't know how anybody could like thistrade. The only way you can like
this trade is if you're getting theMitch you know and love. Yeah,
and if there's a lot of peoplethat I've talked to that are lower on
Robbie Ray than they should be.To be honest, I agree with that.
So we talked about that our lastepisode, Right, I agree with
(14:05):
that. His year that he hadin twenty twenty two, while it wasn't
cy young stuff, he's he's goingto go out every single day. He's
gonna throw you a lot of strikeouts. He's not a he's not a high
leverage lefty reliever, as we sawin the playoffs. That's not his role.
But I mean, I think that'swhat everyone kind of remembers him for.
But he had a good year.It was it was fine. He
(14:26):
was our fourth best starter. Butthat's a really good rotation. That's a
good thing to have. So yeah, I think I think the majority of
fans that I at least I've talkedto maybe I'm in different circles than you
are, is that they were lowon Robbie Ray and they love Mitch Hanniger
and they, you know, yeah, feel like that they should be happy
(14:46):
about this. Well, and Ithink that's what they And that's what they
just did to you. Yeah,Like you hate Jerry Depoto so much,
and he just duped you. Yeah, he brought back somebody you like,
he didn't add to the payroll,and and you, and and you.
This is the only move you've applaudedsome of you in years. And it's
(15:13):
bad. One of the worst onesthat he's had, I think. I
mean, if he's healthy, Iget it, and it makes sense,
and yet I just don't think it'sgonna work out. However, Like Tom
Verducci is one of my favorites.Yeah, I think he's as good as
analysis as any player out there.He really knows the game. He thinks
(15:33):
it makes the Mariners a little bitbetter. Those were his words, I
think it does make the limb alittle bit better. But then in the
same breath, they were asked,what do you think Robbie Ray can be
again after this injury, and hesaid, oh, I think he can
return to his cy Young form.So wait a minute. You think that
if Robbie Ray returns to his cyyoung form and you can get two and
(15:54):
a half years out of that forsomebody, that if he can return to
what he was, Yeah, thenyou've got a good outfielder. Yeah,
not a great one, not evena very good one, No, just
just a good one, but aboveaverage, oh certainly. Yeah, not
quite all star caliber but close.Yeah. But that's also we're two and
(16:18):
a half years removed from that player, and he's thirty three, and he's
thirty three years old, and he'sonly been healthy two times in his entire
career. Yeah, and he's comingoff three different injuries and one of those
was the low back, which hestill is not recovered from. And back
injury has really scared me. That'ssomething that lingers. Yeah, sure so,
(16:41):
I I mean, and then there'sthe other aspect. He's not a
clubhouse guy. Robbie raised more ofa clubhouse guy. Than Mitch Handier,
exactly what I was about to bringup. So, Miner is a very
likable guy everybody on the team,like Mitch Hanniger. Yeah, he was
one of those like down, headdown, go about my business, work
hard, you don't shave my head, send me out there, and I'm
(17:03):
ready to go for you. He'sthat guy, and everybody admires him for
his hard work ethic, for comingback from the injuries. But he sat
there on more than one occasion acrossfrom a table from me and told me,
flat to my face, I'm nota leader. Yeah, I'm more
of a leader by example, notto mention. That's not a bad thing.
That's not a bad thing at all. But he's for those that are
(17:25):
hung up on like leadership. Yes, and I heard a lot of comments
about, well, you got agreat leader back. No you didn't.
You didn't get a leader back.That's not what he is. Most people
kind of putting in the two likekind of same category that, oh,
if you call out ownership, thatyou're a good leader. It's like with
the police wall, the Marco Gonzalezand all those were hanneger gout, they're
(17:48):
all gone. Exactly. I mean, he fit really well with I mean,
he and Tom Murphy were buds.Yeah, gone. I and Kyle
Seegert were buds gone. Marco onye see you all gone, Kendall Graveman
gone. Those were all those guyswere all tight and they're all gone.
So he's not even gonna fit thatniche for you. So man, I
(18:15):
want to like it, and Iwant to believe, like everybody, I
like a lot of you out therelistening, that Mitch Andiger can come back
from it. But I just ifI'm being honest with you, and that's
all I can do is a talkshow Oks Andrews, I don't think he'll
ever be healthy again. Yeah,and for that now, you're paying somebody
thirty two and a half million dollarsover the next couple of years. And
(18:37):
I think, Robbie, you tradedthe guy with a better chance of being
healthy, yes, over the courseof his contract than the two that you
got back. I completely agree,And I go back to what people think.
They probably just kind of put itin perspective of he was, like,
was injured all last year and he'sgonna be gone for half of this
(19:00):
year. That means he's an injuryrisk going forward. No, that's not
how Tommy John works. It's youare back like to one hundred, like
sometimes stronger. Yeah, exactly likewhat we talked about. So I just
I think and for someone who didn'thave an injury record before Robbie Ray,
he was a guy that would throwone hundred and fifty plus innings every single
(19:21):
year, and he got I don'tknow, I just he got a guy
that hasn't been healthy in two anda half years, so or a year
and a half, I should say. And likable, no question about it.
But I mean Robbie Ray was haddeveloped into like one of Scott's top
(19:41):
I don't know what Scott did wrong. Yeah, Jerry, yeah, justin,
but they've traded away like his allhis guys, favorite players, you
know, and Robbie Ray. Yeah, both gone in one off season.
Yeah, and he's always spoke Ihave Teo as well. Uh so that
that's that's tough man. Yeah,I don't know, and especially for I'll
(20:02):
say one more thing about this,this trade, especially for a young pitching
staff as young of one as wehave, it's good to have. I
get you got Castillo, but evenhe's kind of on the just getting into
veteran status. He's still on theyounger side. I think Robbie Rays has
been there around the block and onthree different teams now for he's been in
playoff races. He's been in theplayoffs like he's he's the type of guy
(20:26):
that can lead a young pitching staffand kind of help him develop into who
they should be and teaching to bepros and everything. So and for an
organization that is so you know,committed to keeping their pitching, yes,
I mean, okay, so you'regonna start this season with five I think
excellent, excellent, excellent starters.Odds are by the All Star break you're
(20:47):
gonna lose one of those guys toan injury, yeah, or trade.
I'm gonna knock on Wood. ButI mean Castillo doesn't have a perfect injury
history, not know, and everybodyelse is young. You don't know how
there You don't know how two ofthem are going to respond to this pitching
is all four of them, howthey're going to respond the following year after
pitching the most innings of their life, particularly Brian Woo And now you would
(21:08):
have had this little ace in yourhole, literally an ace in the hole
that Robbie Ray's ready by the AllStar break and steps in if one of
those five can't make it to thebreak, and you're not just going to
some farm hand, You're going toa twenty five million dollars per year guy
that you brought in to be.I mean he was your opening day starter,
(21:30):
yeah, just two years ago,and he was the off season edition.
He's probably the marquee off season editionof the Jerry Depoto tenure, to
be honest. So yeah, Iate to be the bearer of bad news.
I mean, this isn't the firsttime I haven't seen eye to eye
with the majority of the fan base, that's for sure. Yeah. It
just does not It just does notcome off well. And I think you're
(21:53):
right. I think they put iton Friday to bury it, Yeah,
so that we wouldn't talk about it, just in case people hated it.
And it turns out people like itbecause you waived something familiar in front of
people's faces, even though no onewill acknowledge the severe limitations that Mitch Hanniger
(22:14):
has as a baseball player. Yeah, and the initial reaction that I got
from both like national analysts and theones that I trust, like around here,
were, oh, I love thistrade for the Giants. Yes.
So when that's the first reaction,it's like, Okay, I mean you
obviously thankfully it's not like you said, it's a position of depth, so
(22:36):
it's you're not really limiting yourself aton, But you could have I don't
know, you could have done somuch more with that. I feel like,
so, yeah, it's h it'stough for me. I see both
sides of it. There was alsoanother one that went down like just a
couple hours later, between the TampaBay Rays and the Seattle Mariners. Kind
(22:56):
of seemed like because the names thatwere involved, a lesser deal. But
I think you and I both agreeon this and a few others that I've
talked to as well, that thisis actually the better trade that the Mariners
made. Yeah, I actually likethis one. I do too. They
sent Jose Caberro, again fan favorite. But you know, we have lots
(23:17):
of utility men, and he hasa lot I think, probably the most
value out of all of them sincehe's the youngest. Uh. And then
we got Luke Rayley, who canplay what six different positions, who's a
left left handed bat who has hassome pop. He was kind of more
of a platoon bat for the Rayslast year, but I think he has
the ability to be an everyday starter. It can play, you know,
(23:40):
all the outfield positions. Seems likeyou can play first base as well.
You know, what are your reactionsto getting Luke Rayley for sending out Jose
Caber to the Tampa Bay Rays?Well, I like, if him the
standpoint first and foremost of you yougot something you don't have, yes,
for something you have in excess.Yes, So we had to move some
(24:03):
sort of middle infielder. I thinkit would probably be moved him to move
to move another one between now andthe start of the season, and I
think that's a real possibility. Imean, it would surprise me if Cabairo
goes to Tampa tears it up andyou know, as a fifteen forty guy,
I mean they're playing on making himthe starting shortstop. But I wasn't
(24:26):
a big fan of him here.The only I I don't have a problem
at all losing Cabaio. And Ithink Raley, although a late bloomer at
the major league level, he wasreally good last year, really good last
year. Yeah, and believe itor not, like this is a big
(24:47):
dude. There's a big looks likeI don't even know where he's from,
but he looks like a farm boy, you know, like that country strong
kind of thing where you know yousend him off the bus. He looks
like a big dude and has thatfarm boy named Yeah, but he's fast.
He cle Ohio is where he's from. Okay, Yeah, a little
(25:07):
Midwest farm boy. But he's fast. And you see him and you don't
think that that's going to be partof his repertoire. It is. He's
faster foot speed, straight ahead footspeed than Randy Rose Arena. Really wow,
That actually very much surprises me.Now, it doesn't have the burst
because he's got too much weight toget going. But once he gets going,
(25:27):
I mean, he was in doubledigits and stolen bases last year.
He was in double digits and homeruns last year. And that's playing,
as you mentioned, in a platoonrole like a lot of Tampa players get
get caught in that. I don'tknow if he'll play against all lefties this
year, but I think he'll playagainst some. And you hit it right
(25:49):
on the head. He can playbecause of that athleticism. He can play
all three of the outfield positions.So he gives you versatility, he gives
you depth, and he gives youa left handed batter, which is another
thing that you and I have wantedto add to this team, a lefty
with a power. But what ofthe cautionary signs? Well, he didn't
(26:11):
really it is stright until age twentynine. That's an even later bloomer than
Cabaero. That's an even later bloomerthan what Hanniger was. So why did
it take him so long to bea contributor to a major league team?
I mean, he'd had a cupof coffee here and there for the previous
few years, but last year wasthe first year where he really had a
(26:33):
regular role. Yeah yeah, andhe contributed well. But why did it
take him so long? Was lastyear the fluke? Where will baseball people
now have an opportunity to kind ofadjust to him after he adjusted to the
league finally, So I don't thinkthat this is a slam dunk. He's
going to be a terrific Mariner.But I do like trading from depth for
(26:55):
something that we lack. We neededan outfielders, especially a corner fielder,
and a left handed hitting corner outfielder. Yeah, I like this move,
and I like adding him to thelineup. Yeah, I completely agree.
Not that projections are everything. Idon't even know they did this, but
on Baseball Reference, I was lookingat his stats. These are what he's
projected to do in twenty twenty four. Again, they're not everything, but
(27:18):
this is what all the nerds thinkthat he might end up doing this year.
Two forty three batting average, threetwenty five on base four forty two
slugging for a seven sixty seven OPS, which would be lower than last year,
but that's still like Tao range fromthe Mariners last year. Let's see
sixteen homers. I think they're onlyprojecting him to have four hundred and ten
(27:41):
plate appearances, so more of aplatoon role. I think that this was
before he got traded to the Mariners, so maybe he gets a few more
onto that with the counting stats,but I think you'd take that at this
point with this outfield, and especiallyknowing how hitters can struggle at at T
mobile a little bit. So Ithink it's more than you're going to get
from CABIERO. Oh yeah, yeah, And and I know fifteen forty probably
(28:02):
exaggerating but I'm just saying that becausethat is not out of the realm in
possibility as a Tampa dust yet,Dude, That's what I'm saying. They
and that's why I think this isa good trade where it's a win win
for both teams. The Mariners getsomething they need, a left handed power
bat, They can play a lotof positions. Tampa loves those utility guys.
They lost their shortstop in the WanderFranco situation forever. Yeah, probably
(28:23):
forever from what I'm seeing, andthey just love those guys that you know,
run super hard around the bases,are super aggressive on the bass paths,
get on bas well. Maybe don'thave the pop of a loud tools
guy, but they just they endup loving those guys and they end up
playing really well down there. SoI would not be surprised to see Caprio
(28:44):
have a lot of success down withTampa, knowing how they develop hit.
Yeah, I do think it eliminatessome of that fantasy trade talk that we
were having on the podcast about arose arena giving back at I agree or
Brandon law or it probably limits thatequation in terms of growing this team from
this point. And and that's thenext thing that we have to discuss,
(29:07):
certainly Andrews is growing go where doyou go from here? I'm going to
be very careful that everybody understands this. I mean, Jerry basically said,
we feel good about our team ifwe took the field right now, but
we have more. We feel wehave more to do. Okay, So
glass half empty person looks at that, and here's that line. Oh they're
(29:30):
done, They're done. That's it. That's what we got, if you
and and I think Jerry's problem isthat he's too honest, you know,
and so usually he's very forthright withus, and so I'm going to take
him at his word that he isstill out there looking. And I'm going
to be highly disappointed if there aren'tmore additions, because you created money by
(29:56):
trading away you know, three orfour good players. You know, you
created that money. You have itto spend without having to add payroll.
So there's our Polanco Kepler trade fromthe Twins is still alive here, and
I would like still like to haveboth of those guys. I'll go ahead
and give up the hope of addinga star like a rose Arena, but
(30:19):
you got a chance on the chiefYou won't have to give up a Wu
or a Miller for either one ofthese guys, even if they came together.
Yeah, you don't have to giveup anything that good. But they're
out there. They're on one yeardeals and it's only ten million dollars per
year, and that's right, theamount of savings that you still haven't spent.
(30:41):
Yep. So I want both ofthem because I do not want Urius
and Rojas and anything but a platoonthis year. I agree with you.
I don't know if they agree withyou, which is unfortunate because this is
like before these two trades, youcould not get away with putting out the
(31:02):
lineup that the Mariners had and saythat you like did your job in the
offseason. You could theoretically do thatwith the players that we have now now
what I think we'd be better thanlast year. No, I still would
take last year's team over this year'steam right now, even though you significantly
significantly upgraded the DH position with MitchGarver and possibly Mitchanager depending on how much
(31:25):
he plays. So I guess youcould throw in one more outfielder for a
realistic target the Mariners are looking for, thinking that maybe Mitchanniger is not going
to play a full season. Ifthey're smart enough to realize that that's his
history, you need. You can'tbe counting on him for one hundred plus
games, so you probably need oneat least one more outfielder. I agree
(31:48):
with you. I'd love to upgradethe infield more. It just seems like
they're kind of resigned to Ureus andRojas, even though that's what they did
say this week that they're looking that'sthe latest report. Really they're in on
release and infielders. Okay, sothey they but but I think you need
an infielder and an outfield Okay,well, I mean yeah, that's why
Minnesota is just always my goat tothis offseason. And both, as you
(32:10):
know, they're both on expiring contractsfor this upcoming year. I don't care
about signing them long term. Giveme a couple guys that I don't care.
If they're even selfish, if they'rehungry about their own careers, then
that benefits the Mariners to this upcomingseason. Uh. And so if you
add this and I'm still keeping youunder what you said you were willing to
(32:30):
spend by adding twenty million dollars tothe payroll. And if that's it,
that's it. But now all ofa sudden, I got a real solution
at second base in Polonko. Ican go ahead and platoon ROAs and Urreus.
I have Kepler out and right field, you know, and it's not
(32:50):
going to be a platoon, butit's protection. Not only can I add
them to the lineup, but itprotects me if Hanneger gets hurt and then
I've got Rayleigh and I could useI could still use Dylan Moore or Haggarty
because Haggarty does still hit lefties.Yep. I could use Haggarty or Dylan
Moore in right field with Raleigh,and that gives me the outfield depth that
(33:14):
I'm looking for. And I andI would think I think the Minnesota Twins
would be interested in something a coupleof minor league prospects and Dylan Moore or
a Haggarty one or the other thatcould help them because they're a team that's
cutting payroll but still trying to wina championship this year, okay, and
(33:34):
so to get that kind of versatilepiece is something that may be a team
that thinks it's good. One ofthose little, tiny difference makers, and
I think that that would have somevalue for them. So I don't think
you have to give up your topprospects for those two. I don't think
that you have to give up anythingthat you really hold all that valuable.
And I think that those would beexcellent additions to this team. You give
(33:57):
me that and I'll be satisfied.Yeah. The thing that worries me is
that the Mariners probably think that they'rein the same situation as the Twins where
they need to cut payroll but alsothink they can win a championship. I
it would be at least the waythis is coming off to me as a
fan and someone who follows the teampretty closely, is that it's not that
they're cutting payroll to then go againand spend it just to get back to
(34:21):
where they were last year. Ithink they're cutting it to cut it and
be lower than it was last year, which would make more sense why you
traded Gino and needed to trade JKbecause well, if that's what happens,
then you know, then they getall of the ammunition they've earned it,
yeah, you know, and they'verenegged yeah on not only their promises from
(34:45):
the past. Then they've renegged withinthe reneg Yeah, because they said that
they were all they were cutting payrollso that they could spend it more effectively.
Yeah, and so if they ifthey do that twice, then they
deserve all of the criticism that theyget, even from the ones who I
feel have been unreasonable the last fewyears. Unload, because that's not what
(35:08):
we were told was going to happen. You already disappointed us, and then
you're gonna lie to us within thedisappointment. No, unacceptable, Yeah,
Yeah, it's it's really interesting.It's crazy that we keep I feel like
we said this the last three yearsthat this offseason is like the turning point
for this front office and this ownership, Like how can they, you know,
(35:32):
gain the fans favorite. It seemslike they did it two years ago
going into the twenty twenty two seasonwhen they traded for Winker, who we
all thought would work out, andand Suarez who did work out, and
then obviously brought up Julio and thenlike even more last year in my opinion,
because you had that momentum from aplayoff run and you made a slight
(35:57):
upgrade with Taoscar Hernandez, but reallynothing else to add to the team kind
of just ran it back. Andnow this year it's like, Okay,
well Wong was supposed to it.I know you never liked it. To
your defense, to your defense,you didn't like it from the outset,
and you ended up being right.But that was that was supposed to be
an upgrade, true, and Hernandezwas supposed to be an upgrade. And
(36:20):
Pollock was supposed to be able todeliver something something you know, and and
and you got not only nothing outof two of those acquisiatives, you got
negative. Yeah, from two ofthose acquisitions. I didn't see them being
that bad, that's for sure.I would say, you know, through
the history of this rebuild, Idon't think I've had a problem until the
(36:44):
trading deadline this past year. Now. I railed over the Kendall Graveman trade.
Fair enough in twenty twenty one.Yeah, but let's be can we
be honest about something. We weren'texpecting that team to be that good.
We were not. We were notexpecting that team to be a contender.
But once they had earned content andthey should have been rewarded and not punished.
(37:04):
And so that's what I railed against. Is hey, any team that
overachieves and says to you, wewant to be in the playoffs this year.
You need to reward that team.This is baseball, man, You
know, anything can happen in theplayoffs. But in terms of the development
of this team into a championship caliberteam, even last offseason, I didn't
(37:25):
love it. I didn't I didn'teven really like it. But to me,
there was enough of an effort tosay we're gonna be better this year.
Yea than we were at the endof last year. Yeah, I
agree with that. You know,there's not that right now, And there's
not that right now since the tradingdeadline until now, something's gone awry and
I don't and and and so,whatever they're doing with their finances, it's
(37:51):
a downright shame because there was alot of great work that went into this
rebuild and it was on the precipiceof a special something generating playoff appearance after
playoff appearance, and instead somebody decidedthat's not important. So and since that
time, since the trading deadline oflast year, it's been nothing but disappointment.
(38:15):
Yeah, it has been nothing butthat line of thinking of it's not
that important anymore. Yeah, thatwe finished this thing. Yeah, and
I don't think it's coming from Jerry, right, And if it is coming
from Jerry, then't get rid ofhim. Yeah, but I don't think
it's coming from Jerry, and Iknow it's not coming from Justin. Yeah,
what GM wouldn't want to make theirbaseball team better? I agree with
(38:37):
that. It's just I don't know. I honestly don't know. I wish
I could have be a fly onthe wall on those talks behind the scenes
and what's going on. But yeah, I really hope for better things for
this team. Maybe there's a magicmove coming that they've feel freed up all
the space so they could do.Maybe they're signing Blake Snow, I don't
know who the hell knows anymore.Well, if it's twenty million, then
(38:57):
they could. If and they justmake this Ray trade and you don't you
didn't knife into any of that thatyou that pool of money that you just
cut, then you could before afree agent out there, and fifteen to
twenty million dollars free agent, you'dfill a pretty big hole on this team.
So, but they need to spendit. Yeah, I get okay,
(39:22):
Fine, I'd feel good if ourteam took the field right now.
Fine, that's great that you feelthat way, but make it better.
Yeah, you could still make itbetter. And I think that's the way
I like you said. Jerry's muchtoo honest. I feel like with his
appearances, at least to the media. But the way I read what he
said is that you know, they'reprobably, like he said, satisfied with
(39:45):
what they've done, but they're gonnatry and make more moves, but not
like be desperate to go and getsomething else that they feel like they don't
need. So they're tempering expectations.Yeah, which, and then if they
end up doing something pretty neat thenpeople will be happy. Then people it
will be unexpected, Yeah, becauseI think people read that line from him
and are like, we're done.Yeah, but it's only January eighth,
(40:10):
so and and pretty much all offree agency is still That's the other things.
The Marriage have been the second mostactive team in baseball after the Dodgers
at this point in off season.Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah,
with at least how many moves they'vemade, it's not like they've been
positive and like they're going for it. But other than the second most active
(40:30):
team in baseball, which is kindof weird, by the way, and
this fits in a Mariner's podcast.They did it again, the Dodger.
Oh, I know, I wasgoing to bring it up. I was
going to bring it up. Don'tworry ta Oscar Hernandez. Sign's a one
year, twenty three and a halfmillion dollar deal, but defers nine million
of that to what has happened?Who's paying this bill in twenty thirty through
(40:55):
twenty thirty nine? I don't evenknow. Man, time they've done this,
They're they're cheating. They don't haveany choice. Baseball's like, look,
you found a loophole, now you'reabusing it. Now we got to
create a rule to close the loophole, which was perfectly fine. Been doing
this for decades now and nobody hasexploited this loophole. And now your what
(41:21):
are you doing? Who's paying thismoney in twenty thirty to twenty thirty nine?
What is your plan? No idea? I over one hundred million,
They're well over one hundred million dollarsthat they owe to to players that won't
be on their run, will beretired by then. Yes, I don't
know what. It doesn't doesn't seemright. But Taos now added to the
(41:45):
Dodgers. All right, so takeout the deferred part about it. But
would you rather have Tao for twentythree and a half million or Mitch Hannager
for nineteen tell you okay, becauseI think he'll play. Yeah, I
again, I like Mitch Hannager theplayer. I just don't trust that he
(42:07):
is ever going to be healthy.Again, I agree, And I'm not
even talking like for a full season. Anders. I don't think he can
make it through a half a season. Yeah, that's where I think he's
at right now. Now. He'sa hard worker. Yeah, I really
hope he can figure it out,you know, because he's a guy I
like. Well. I yeah,his last full season in a Mariner uniform,
(42:30):
he nearly carried the team on hisback to the playoffs. And and
he's and I like him. Ido like him. I just don't know
if he can stay healthy. Butthey've gone through all of this and they
have kept their core pitching together.They're youngsters, and it's the envy of
baseball. They're young starting pitching thatthey have, and you can use you
(42:53):
can include Castillo in that conversation.So apparently that was their objective. You
know, we'll trade away Scott Servis'sbest buddy and our biggest free agent move
since Robinson Cano for a very questionablehealth outfielder and a number six starter.
(43:16):
You know, so we'll we'll tradethat. And so you know, you
give that up rather than touch anyof your young pitchers. And here's here's
the truth. Here's your silver liningin all of this. That pitching can
carry you for one hundred and sixtytwo games. It can, and as
(43:38):
long as you're okay offensively, it'llbe in the hunt. You can be
in the hunt. And if youoverachieve even the slightest bit offensively, you're
in the playoffs. Yeah. Thislast year's team underachieved and missed the playoffs
by a game. Think about thelevels of underachievement long not contributing, the
(44:00):
Polock not contributing, the dads ofstrikeouts, the failures with runners in scoring
position, the failures with runners atthird in less than two outs, the
Tao career down here. You know, I mean, anywhere you turn you
can find like a disappointment last offseason. Then they still, because their pitching
(44:21):
is so good and Julio special,they still missed the playoffs by a game.
And I think that's the most frustratingpart about all this is they have
a good enough pitching to be oneof the best teams in baseball, and
if they just made a you don'teven have to have one of the best
offenses. You just made a reliable, solid, like three or four editions
(44:42):
where you know that they're going tocontribute and commit to them. That it
feels like we could have like somethingso so special here where instead of being
the difference between you know, howyour offense performs, between you know,
making the playoffs or not make inthe playoffs, it would be winning the
division versus being a wildcard team.I think that's the difference. And I
(45:05):
think that's what most fans and memyself, I want that. I want
us to be that team where wehave the chance to win one hundred plus
games if if the offense overachieves,but even if we underachieve, we're still
a wildcard team and we can stillmake a run in the playoffs. That's
what I want us to be.Well, that's where we all agree.
Yeah, no matter what side ofthe isle you've been on in the Depoto
wars, it's where we all agree. Is that this team with just a
(45:27):
couple of aggressive, smart, offensiveadditions could be special. I mean,
you know, text Strangers won theWorld Series with a lot of holes holes
in that lineup, and they justbeat the Mariners by two games, And
they wouldn't have beat them at allif the Mariners didn't gag on the last
week of the last couple of weeksof the year for the last ten games.
(45:51):
Yeah. Yeah, And so there'snot that much different. And the
Astros are going to be a littlebit worse again this year, yeap.
They're going to continue to come backdown to earth. Yeah, they were
worse this year, as I knowI told you, but going into the
season, they're still the team tobe, but they're not going to be
as good as what they were intheir championship years. And they were a
little bit worse, and they're goingto be a little bit worse next year.
(46:13):
Angels are going to be bad,no, Tawny. It's they're like
they're gonna be rebuilding all there.Obviously, the is that the window is
open. The window is open,but it doesn't seem like anyone wants to
walk through it at this point.So it's very and that it's extremely frustrating,
and I understand that. But asI softy text me after all these
trades went down, and I senthim my nuts thoughts not so terrific review
(46:37):
of the Hanniger trade, and thenI just put at the end a week
in pitch. Yeah, so that'sthe silver lining in it all. And
they kept it all young and old. Yeah, that's healthy at this moment.
So that's the other thing though aboutthe young pitching though, is you're
going to have to extend them eventually. So I would have thought, at
(46:58):
least for me, I would havetried to keep the guy that you have
already signed and like have through threemore years, you know. And I'm
glad you brought that. Yeah,because that needs to be pointed out in
this podcast. They have a reallyhard time and this is the tone excuse
me, the tone deafness of JerryDepoto. Not only does he just not
(47:19):
even care about clubhouse chemistry now,doesn't even register, does not give a
crap about team chemistry, doesn't careif people are angry with him, does
not care, doesn't care if hiscaptain won't even speak to him, doesn't
care. Okay, so he's tonedeaf to that he does not think it's
(47:39):
important, does not think it's valuable, And I think he really makes Scott
Servis's job one of the hardest inthe entire sport. But then then there's
another breed. I mean, he'sout there in free agency and he knows
that there aren't a lot of peoplethat want to play here because Jerry reputation,
(48:00):
because of the cold weather for thefirst half of the season, because
of the images they see on thenews of downtown Seattle, that's where I
got to play my game where allof those pickets are. Oh, you
mean that one block that was occupiedfor like a month during COVID when we
weren't going outside anyway. But peoplesee that and they have a hard enough
(48:24):
time trying to get people to comeand want to be a Mariner, not
to mention a history without a championship. Yeah, and then you got guys
like Paul Sewald and Robbie Ray whoboth want to be here. Robbie Ray
chose here. Yes, Robbie Raypulled a Felix Hernandez. He said,
(48:44):
I can go anywhere I want.I'm coming off of cy young season and
I want to play for the SeattleMariners. You can't chase off of the
guys that want to be here.I mean, Mitch was even Mitch he
said he wanted to be wanted,wrote the athletics store, Yeah, and
(49:07):
chased him off then brought him back. I mean, I just don't think
you're in a position to chase offall star caliber talent that actually wants to
be here and has found a homehere and likes it here. That's not
a great Cal Rowley wants to behere. But if you don't start changing
(49:27):
the way that you do things,he's going to demand a trade. I
know his agent, you know he'snot He's going to demand to be to
leave. This guy that goes tothe Kracking games and Kracking's out and hangs
out with Joey Decourt. He wantsto be a Seattle Mayrin. He's an
icon in this city. Honestly,he's one of the fan favorites. If
(49:50):
you were to pull like number two, yeah, after Jululjo Yeah, and
maybe like yeah. Honestly, that'sit's crazy to think about that. It
just doesn't matter to some people.That doesn't matter. It's got to matter
a little bit, and I thinkthat's I think those are the those are
the two big issues with Jerry asan executive. He doesn't he just he
(50:13):
just there's a tone deafness about him, and it's very irritating. And and
the Trader Jerry reputation is bounced back. You had a plan. It was
Robbie Ray. It was all aboutRobbie Ray, all about Robbie Ray.
And then he's gone, just likethat, and it felt like a salary
dump and people didn't really notice itbecause you got distracted by Mitch Handiger returning.
(50:38):
You know, it's a magic trick. Is I got Mitch Haniger over
here, a little sleight of hand. Meanwhile, I'm picking your pocket.
Yeah, that's what he did.So it's frustrating. But as you and
I both agree, I mean,make make one or two good smart moves.
You're a playoff team, I agree. I mean yeah, that kind
(51:00):
of wraps it up for me.I'm just h I hope they make some
more moves. I hope this isn'tit. I have a feeling it might
be it if they nothing really screamsat them, Well, it shouldn't be.
Yeah, there's no reason that itshould be. You do not have
a complete lineup, and you whodid I just compare Mitch Garver to in
our last episode. I don't rememberMitch Hanniger. Yeah, you know,
(51:23):
Mitch, the two mitches who areevery other year players. Because of injury,
you can't hopefully the two combined willgive you a full season. Yeah,
there's no chance that both of thoseguys are staying playing one hundred and
forty games. I agree healthy thisyear. So if you're counting on that,
I mean, I'm seeing these mocklineups that are being put together and
(51:45):
Garver hitting third and Hanneger hitting fifth. I mean, Mitch Garver's not hitting
you know, third. No,No, Mitch Garver should be hitting fifth.
Yeah, I agree. And thenMitch Hanniger sixth, seven, Yeah,
sixth or seventh. Yeah, that'sthat's what you need. So what
(52:06):
does that tell you we need anumber three hitter? Yeah? And maybe,
and I'm kind of giving up thehope that like a Rose Arena would
have been the choice there. Butif you can add to the depth,
if you can bring in a Keplerand or Polanco, all right, you're
fine. At least I've got onethrough nine that's a little bit better.
(52:29):
And maybe I don't need to havea classic number three hitter. Yeah,
protecting Julio. But you got tohave somebody to protect Julio. I'm with
you on that one. Yeah,all right, that'll do it for us.
Thanks for joining us, so weappreciate it. I don't know,
maybe we'll crow it again on Thursday. Yeah, of course we're gonna have
a trade here in a matter ofminutes. We've got to react to it,
right. Crazy to me, Andrew'sa chuck that a podcast might as
(52:51):
well make a move and ruin it. Uh So, hope you enjoy it.
Check out Chucking Bucks six to tenMonday through Friday, and of course,
make sure you're listening to the entiresports talk radio lineup at Sports Radio
ninety three point three k j Ar f M. We'll stove again next week
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