July 30, 2021 • 16 mins
"Tim the Lawyer" Sandefur joins Jack Armstrong to talk about the falsehoods of the 1619 Project, getting vaccinated and why he hates the Olympics.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio and the George Washington
Broadcast Center. Strong, arm Strong and Jetty Show. Olympic ratings
are down quite a bit, although TV ratings are hard
(00:20):
to figure out now because um, if you if you
watch you know, when you watch a sport on your phone,
it doesn't count, and um, I don't know, it's hard
to figure out how many people actually watch stuff. I've
watched less Olympics this time around than any Olympics since
I was seven years old. I don't know if other
people are the same, but the ratings are down quite
a bit. Anyway, welcome to the program. I'm glad you hear.
(00:41):
You picked a good moment to tune in because everybody
likes Tim the lawyer. We call him Tim Sanderford. He's
the vice president of Litigation for the Goldwater Institute. He's
written a number of fantastic books. Will mention at the
end of this interview Suit that you can go by
them immediately. Tim, How you doing, dude? How are you
doing all right? I know you're an anti sports guy.
Are you anti Olympics? Yeah? I'm very much anti Olympics.
(01:01):
I cannot stand the idea that our athletes would compete
on an equal footing with enslaved children from China, and
that we would then lend the the oppressive Chinese government.
And this goes to other tyrannical governments. Also the credibility
of uh that that goes along with taking them as
an equal. It's disgraceful, disgraceful to me to see these athletes,
(01:26):
our athletes got there and worked their their whole lives
to pursue a dream on the same balance beam with
children who are forced into virtual slavery by a totalitarian
government overseas and and compelled to compete on pain of punishment,
as if that's somehow the same thing. No, I think
the Olympics should be abolished immediately. Wow, there you go, strong,
strong opinion from Tim Sanderford. I'll tell you, I'm shocked
(01:50):
that this whole because the Olympics are supposed to be
in China right after you know, next year Winter two,
So not that farman. I can't believe that that had
have been canceled, that all of the good countries of
the world haven't pulled out yet they were still acting
like that's gonna happen. Uh, Like I'm okay with the
Olympics happening in Japan right now, And uh, I get
what you just said, but um, there's no way we
(02:12):
can send an Olympic team to China and let them
have that platform to show off the city of Beijing. Yeah,
I would think. You know, the original Olympics, the whole
idea when it was recreated in the nineteenth century was
that we were going to have you know, it would
be for peace, for world peace, and everybody would drop
politics and just compete together and forget their political differences.
But the one because it's all about politics now, it's
(02:33):
just prestige competitions between governments that want to pound themselves
on the chest and say how great and bold they
are when back home they're throwing their people into concentration
camps and forcing them to make wallets for for uh
sale overseas. No, it's just just just as graceful. It
should be completely ended. Both it makes you feeling better.
Our US men's basketball team beat Iran by fifty points yesterday,
(02:56):
so you know that does make me feel better. I
kind of feel like this is well trodden ground, but
it keeps popping up, and I know it's going to
end up in schools around the country the sixteen nineteen project.
You have written eloquently on this, you've spoken uh forcefully
on this. Could you give us kind of a short
(03:18):
version for people who don't know what the sixteen nineteen
project is, because again, they might be teaching to your schools,
in your schools if your kids are allowed to go
back to school this year, which is a different topic,
but they might be teaching to your your kids this year.
What is it and what's the many flaws? Well, it's
in the same way that that critical race theory is
(03:40):
both the st project is very vague in certain crucial ways.
So it's supposed to be about trying to emphasize black
history more, to talk about the consequences of slavery, more
to talk about the ways in which the discrimination after
the Civil War perpetuated racial and inequalities, and and the
(04:00):
heroic stories of the people who triumphed over those those obstacles.
And in that sense, that's great. But then when you
start reading the text, you find that it goes further
and it makes certain claims about the nature of the
United States and says that America was founded on slavery,
that what makes America essential is the existence of slavery,
(04:23):
and that the American Revolution was fought in order to
perpetuate slavery, and that the Constitution was written in order
to protect slavery. And those are all factually false and
really dangerous propositions to be teaching children, to tell them
that they were and remain fundamentally excluded from the American Dream.
It's contrary, for one thing, it's contrary to the views
(04:45):
of those who fought for civil rights just in the
nineteen sixties, who insisted no black Americans are entitled to
participate in the American Dream. They have as much legitimate
claim to the Declaration, and the and the Constitution as
anybody else does. But the sixty nineteen project idea oology
turns that backwards and says, no, this isn't always has
been a white supremacist nation. And of course those white
(05:08):
supremacists out there they applaud that, they say, yeah, right,
you know so, I think I think in that sense
plays into the hands of the white racists who would
say that this country was and remains for whites only,
whether it's the sixteen nineteen project or a variety of
other things, that we're we're constantly talking about now and
(05:28):
and teaching in schools or you know, become the hot
topic of the day. Has has any nation ever in
its history turns so self hating as the United States has,
or at least segments of the United States, I don't
know of it. It's really weird. Well, there was the
nihilist movement in Russia in about nineteen hundred, uh, you know,
(05:50):
which set the stage for terrible things that followed. Yeah,
I think there there have been times when nations have
been this kind of self critical. But you're right that
this goes beyond self critical. This goes into genuine self hatred,
which tells people that there is no greater purpose to
the American dream. And you know, in fact, and this
(06:11):
is this is what inspired my article. Was was Nicoleheannah Jones,
who is the charlatan behind nineteen project. And charlatan is
a perfectly uh the right word to use, because they've
retracted or she's walked back a whole bunch of different
stuff from that bride winning article without admitting it, without
acknowledging it, They've erased it without saying that they've changed it,
(06:33):
which is charlatan is um And when challenged on her
historical claims, she resorts to accusing her critics of racism
instead of responding to them on the on the merits.
So that's the that's the the surefire sign of a Charlottean,
so her she said in at one point defending herself,
she said, well, this was all about about a narrative,
(06:55):
about telling a narrative about American history. This isn't supposed
to be factual. We're this is about creating a story
about America. Well we all knew that that that that's
the whole point. And what it was is it's an
alternative theory of what the American dream is, the alternative
to that which is articulated in the Declaration of Independence.
That's what it is is. It was an attempt to
(07:17):
say the Declaration of Independence is a lie and was
written by liars, and that in fact, not all men
are created equal, and that in fact, the Constitution's authors
did not really mean this. Now, as I said, they're
very vague about this. So the authors of the project
are very vague about this. So then they'll turn around
and say, no, no, we're saying that they that these
were noble ideals, but they didn't really live up to them.
(07:38):
But that's a very different thing than saying what they
actually say, which is that these ideals were were false
from the beginning, which is a quotation from the from
the project. So it's vague on purpose in order to
allow them to to make assertions about America being evil
and then when they're called on it, to dance back
across the line and say, no, no, we're just saying
(08:00):
that America was great in theory, but people fail to
live up to the noble ideals. But that's not what
they're really doing. For for so many, um, particularly academics
in this in this country, and then a lot of
the students that they're teaching the nation, were like a
human being that has gone from ignoring all our flaws
and being uh, you know, pompous and a little deluded
(08:22):
as to uh to to uh you know where we
fit in in terms of good and bad to like
all we do now is we're like a person that
only emphasizes their failures and walks around saying, nobody could
ever love me, nobody should ever love me. I'm a
bad person. It's just so weird, that's right, And there's
a rhetorical strategy behind this on the part of those
who are propagating it, and that is, if you want
(08:43):
to destroy great ideals, the first thing to do is
to destroy idealism outright, or to elevate things that are
not really ideal to the status of ideals in order
to obscure the desire, the aspiration for truth and goodness.
You tell people that there is no such thing as
truth and goodness, or that things that are not true
and are not good are really true and good, in
(09:03):
order to confuse them. And that's the strategy. That's similar
strategy is that played with with critical race theory. Critical
race theory says that there is systemic racism and that
we should pay attention to systemic racism. What but but
the ambiguity here is what do we mean by system?
What system exactly are we're talking about some If you're
talking about something like let's say the drug war, well,
(09:25):
you know there are ways in which the drug war
has racist elements to it from its history and and
the way it's enforest and so powder cocaine that, and
we can have that discussion absolutely. But if what you
mean by system is say capitalism, then we have a
very different story that capitalism is not inherently racist. Capitalism
(09:45):
is the greatest boon ever enjoyed by racial minorities in
the history of the species. So it's it's carefully designed
to be ambiguous so that when people say systemic, what
they mean is the same thing that the hippies meant
when they said the establishment right right exactly at the piece.
I like it when you mentioned the Hippies Olympics hating
(10:07):
Tim sander for on the line. Um, So if sixteen
nineteen project comes up in your school, like you find
out your kids are being taught that, I'll tell you what.
Google sixteen nineteen project and Tim Sanderford's name, and you'll
come up with some of the stuff that he has written,
and you'll have the ammunition you need to fight back
against your school board. Now, Tim, if you can hang
around for a little bit, I got a couple of
questions because you are one of the You're one of
America's leading finkers on freedom. According to George will of
(10:31):
the Washington Post, you're an American treasure. So a lot
of people out there haven't gotten the vaccine. I didn't
see that coming. I thought we were going to, you know,
race to figure out a vaccine, come up with a vaccine,
figure out how to get it out, and people got
and get vaccinated. I didn't I didn't really see this
coming that there would be a pretty big chunk of
the country that decided they didn't want to get the vaccine. Now,
(10:53):
you're your lefty media really likes to make it all
about dumb white Trump voters, and and uh and uh,
there are an awful lot of other people that aren't
getting the vaccine. Also, for instance, of New York City's
Department of Education employees aren't vaccinated. I doubt many of
those were Trump voters. And there are a lot of
(11:15):
examples of that in big cities across the country. And uh,
for instance, um, African American men are as a percentage,
they as a group of people aren't getting the vaccination
in the highest numbers. So um. So there's a lot
of talk now of forcing people to do it. You're
a libertarian with the great thinkers in America. Where do
you come down on the government forcing people to get vaccinated? Well,
(11:38):
the libertarian principle is that it should be up to
the property owner whether to require somebody to have the
vaccine before going on his property. If I'm a homeowner
and somebody didn't come and have dinner at my house,
I have the right to say you can't come over
to my house if you don't have a vaccine. Same
thing if I'm a business owner or whatever. So the
libertarian answer is that it's a question of prior at
(12:00):
property rights, and that leaves people free to decide for
themselves whether to get the vaccine and come over to
my house or not get the vaccine and not come
over to my house. So the problem that we have
is that we've reduced the rights of property and business
owners so drastically in today's world that people feel like
they have to look to the government to tell give
them guidance on on questions that ought to be individual choices. So, um, well, okay,
(12:26):
well back to their does the federal government if if
they're going to start if the government's going to start
mandating this, is this a federal government thing? Is state
government thing? Who has got the power to even do this?
It should well, As with everything having to do with
health and safety, it's primarily a state matter. And and
that's another thing where we've diverged so much from what
the Constitution actually requires by giving so much power to
(12:47):
the federal government, when in fact this should be a
question that decided at the state level. So for like
my school, everybody knows who's got kids in school. There
are a number of shots that you have to get
to attend a public school. Is that a is that
a county Bay county thing that is informed by the
federal government, or is that a federal mandate under existing law,
it's probably a thing where the the school district gets
(13:09):
funding from the Feds, and in exchange for that funding,
you have to agree to a whole bunch of things.
That's the way most federal control has expanded in the
in the twentie and early twenty one century is by
the Feds coming along and saying, well, well, we'll give
you this this grant, but you have to agree to
follow our rules if you if you receive the grant,
and of course you can't really refuse the grant because
(13:29):
that's your tax money. They've taken that money from you already,
and they say, we'll give you your tax money back
if you agree to these rules, and so you know,
you don't really have a choice about the matter. But
that's the way most federal mandates are imposed now is
I know how you feel about a lot of the
business shutdowns and school shutdowns and everything like that. But
as an individual, and you've got you know, as much
bona fights as anybody I know in America in terms
(13:50):
of libertarian freedom. You know, on my own person, the
government can't make me do things, blah blah blah. Have
you felt like the line was crossed for you personally
and wearing masks or vaccines or anything at any point
during this pandemic? Not really, No, But remember that I
I I reside in Arizona, which had a very different
restaurant to to the pandemic than California did. In California,
(14:12):
have Governor Newso basically declaring one man rule, even though
the state legislature is in session now and could make
the rules, he decides, No, No, I'm going to make
the rules for everybody unilaterally and impose those on everybody.
That was very different than the way our state did it,
which was our governor asked people to stay home for
a while and then asked them to remain safe, and
then local governments, counties I had the primary responsibility for
(14:35):
setting safety rules for how businesses should operate. So I
just have two minutes left, and this just came up
in my own real life, and I want to ask
you about this because you know a lot about the
Second Amendment. So I wanted to buy some ammunition the
other day. I already own a gun, but I wanted
to buy bullets, and I went to the local Big five,
and at least in the county in the state that
I live in, the amount of paperwork that they handed
me and the number of things that I had to
(14:56):
do to just buy some bullets was freaking unbelievable. How
expensive it is the paperwork for the basic background check
for buying bullets. Um, I have to find my birth
certificate that I've got somewhere in a box or whatever.
How does this stop violate my Second Amendment right to
keep in bear arms? Oh? Of course it violates your
Second Amendment rights. It's death by a thousand cuts, or
(15:19):
or as they say, being nibbled to death by ducks. Right.
The state biocrats know perfectly well how to make life
difficult for you. And then they can say, well, we're
not denying you, We're just saying you have to fill
out yet another form and you have to wait another
six months or we at the Goldwater Institute actually have
are suing the state of Illinois for failing to issue
people the permits to which they are legally entitled to
(15:40):
have to hold firearms. Even the state law says that
there's a deadline for the estate to decide whether to
give you or denying the permit. Instead, they just completely
ignore this deadline and take years sometimes to decide whether
or not to give you your firearms permit. Meanwhile, you
have dangerous riots in Chicago and people want firearms to
protect themselves, and the state says, oh, no, you you
(16:01):
you have to fill out yet another form and wait
another six months. Uh, you know, rely on the police.
We are unfortunately out of time. Tim, and I really
appreciate everything you had to say today. I'm gonna pump
your bucks. You want to come back and get
From the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio and the George Washington
Broadcast Center. Strong, arm Strong and Jetty Show. Olympic ratings
are down quite a bit, although TV ratings are hard
(00:20):
to figure out now because um, if you if you
watch you know, when you watch a sport on your phone,
it doesn't count, and um, I don't know, it's hard
to figure out how many people actually watch stuff. I've
watched less Olympics this time around than any Olympics since
I was seven years old. I don't know if other
people are the same, but the ratings are down quite
a bit. Anyway, welcome to the program. I'm glad you hear.
(00:41):
You picked a good moment to tune in because everybody
likes Tim the lawyer. We call him Tim Sanderford. He's
the vice president of Litigation for the Goldwater Institute. He's
written a number of fantastic books. Will mention at the
end of this interview Suit that you can go by
them immediately. Tim, How you doing, dude? How are you
doing all right? I know you're an anti sports guy.
Are you anti Olympics? Yeah? I'm very much anti Olympics.
(01:01):
I cannot stand the idea that our athletes would compete
on an equal footing with enslaved children from China, and
that we would then lend the the oppressive Chinese government.
And this goes to other tyrannical governments. Also the credibility
of uh that that goes along with taking them as
an equal. It's disgraceful, disgraceful to me to see these athletes,
(01:26):
our athletes got there and worked their their whole lives
to pursue a dream on the same balance beam with
children who are forced into virtual slavery by a totalitarian
government overseas and and compelled to compete on pain of punishment,
as if that's somehow the same thing. No, I think
the Olympics should be abolished immediately. Wow, there you go, strong,
strong opinion from Tim Sanderford. I'll tell you, I'm shocked
(01:50):
that this whole because the Olympics are supposed to be
in China right after you know, next year Winter two,
So not that farman. I can't believe that that had
have been canceled, that all of the good countries of
the world haven't pulled out yet they were still acting
like that's gonna happen. Uh, Like I'm okay with the
Olympics happening in Japan right now, And uh, I get
what you just said, but um, there's no way we
(02:12):
can send an Olympic team to China and let them
have that platform to show off the city of Beijing. Yeah,
I would think. You know, the original Olympics, the whole
idea when it was recreated in the nineteenth century was
that we were going to have you know, it would
be for peace, for world peace, and everybody would drop
politics and just compete together and forget their political differences.
But the one because it's all about politics now, it's
(02:33):
just prestige competitions between governments that want to pound themselves
on the chest and say how great and bold they
are when back home they're throwing their people into concentration
camps and forcing them to make wallets for for uh
sale overseas. No, it's just just just as graceful. It
should be completely ended. Both it makes you feeling better.
Our US men's basketball team beat Iran by fifty points yesterday,
(02:56):
so you know that does make me feel better. I
kind of feel like this is well trodden ground, but
it keeps popping up, and I know it's going to
end up in schools around the country the sixteen nineteen project.
You have written eloquently on this, you've spoken uh forcefully
on this. Could you give us kind of a short
(03:18):
version for people who don't know what the sixteen nineteen
project is, because again, they might be teaching to your schools,
in your schools if your kids are allowed to go
back to school this year, which is a different topic,
but they might be teaching to your your kids this year.
What is it and what's the many flaws? Well, it's
in the same way that that critical race theory is
(03:40):
both the st project is very vague in certain crucial ways.
So it's supposed to be about trying to emphasize black
history more, to talk about the consequences of slavery, more
to talk about the ways in which the discrimination after
the Civil War perpetuated racial and inequalities, and and the
(04:00):
heroic stories of the people who triumphed over those those obstacles.
And in that sense, that's great. But then when you
start reading the text, you find that it goes further
and it makes certain claims about the nature of the
United States and says that America was founded on slavery,
that what makes America essential is the existence of slavery,
(04:23):
and that the American Revolution was fought in order to
perpetuate slavery, and that the Constitution was written in order
to protect slavery. And those are all factually false and
really dangerous propositions to be teaching children, to tell them
that they were and remain fundamentally excluded from the American Dream.
It's contrary, for one thing, it's contrary to the views
(04:45):
of those who fought for civil rights just in the
nineteen sixties, who insisted no black Americans are entitled to
participate in the American Dream. They have as much legitimate
claim to the Declaration, and the and the Constitution as
anybody else does. But the sixty nineteen project idea oology
turns that backwards and says, no, this isn't always has
been a white supremacist nation. And of course those white
(05:08):
supremacists out there they applaud that, they say, yeah, right,
you know so, I think I think in that sense
plays into the hands of the white racists who would
say that this country was and remains for whites only,
whether it's the sixteen nineteen project or a variety of
other things, that we're we're constantly talking about now and
(05:28):
and teaching in schools or you know, become the hot
topic of the day. Has has any nation ever in
its history turns so self hating as the United States has,
or at least segments of the United States, I don't
know of it. It's really weird. Well, there was the
nihilist movement in Russia in about nineteen hundred, uh, you know,
(05:50):
which set the stage for terrible things that followed. Yeah,
I think there there have been times when nations have
been this kind of self critical. But you're right that
this goes beyond self critical. This goes into genuine self hatred,
which tells people that there is no greater purpose to
the American dream. And you know, in fact, and this
(06:11):
is this is what inspired my article. Was was Nicoleheannah Jones,
who is the charlatan behind nineteen project. And charlatan is
a perfectly uh the right word to use, because they've
retracted or she's walked back a whole bunch of different
stuff from that bride winning article without admitting it, without
acknowledging it, They've erased it without saying that they've changed it,
(06:33):
which is charlatan is um And when challenged on her
historical claims, she resorts to accusing her critics of racism
instead of responding to them on the on the merits.
So that's the that's the the surefire sign of a Charlottean,
so her she said in at one point defending herself,
she said, well, this was all about about a narrative,
(06:55):
about telling a narrative about American history. This isn't supposed
to be factual. We're this is about creating a story
about America. Well we all knew that that that that's
the whole point. And what it was is it's an
alternative theory of what the American dream is, the alternative
to that which is articulated in the Declaration of Independence.
That's what it is is. It was an attempt to
(07:17):
say the Declaration of Independence is a lie and was
written by liars, and that in fact, not all men
are created equal, and that in fact, the Constitution's authors
did not really mean this. Now, as I said, they're
very vague about this. So the authors of the project
are very vague about this. So then they'll turn around
and say, no, no, we're saying that they that these
were noble ideals, but they didn't really live up to them.
(07:38):
But that's a very different thing than saying what they
actually say, which is that these ideals were were false
from the beginning, which is a quotation from the from
the project. So it's vague on purpose in order to
allow them to to make assertions about America being evil
and then when they're called on it, to dance back
across the line and say, no, no, we're just saying
(08:00):
that America was great in theory, but people fail to
live up to the noble ideals. But that's not what
they're really doing. For for so many, um, particularly academics
in this in this country, and then a lot of
the students that they're teaching the nation, were like a
human being that has gone from ignoring all our flaws
and being uh, you know, pompous and a little deluded
(08:22):
as to uh to to uh you know where we
fit in in terms of good and bad to like
all we do now is we're like a person that
only emphasizes their failures and walks around saying, nobody could
ever love me, nobody should ever love me. I'm a
bad person. It's just so weird, that's right, And there's
a rhetorical strategy behind this on the part of those
who are propagating it, and that is, if you want
(08:43):
to destroy great ideals, the first thing to do is
to destroy idealism outright, or to elevate things that are
not really ideal to the status of ideals in order
to obscure the desire, the aspiration for truth and goodness.
You tell people that there is no such thing as
truth and goodness, or that things that are not true
and are not good are really true and good, in
(09:03):
order to confuse them. And that's the strategy. That's similar
strategy is that played with with critical race theory. Critical
race theory says that there is systemic racism and that
we should pay attention to systemic racism. What but but
the ambiguity here is what do we mean by system?
What system exactly are we're talking about some If you're
talking about something like let's say the drug war, well,
(09:25):
you know there are ways in which the drug war
has racist elements to it from its history and and
the way it's enforest and so powder cocaine that, and
we can have that discussion absolutely. But if what you
mean by system is say capitalism, then we have a
very different story that capitalism is not inherently racist. Capitalism
(09:45):
is the greatest boon ever enjoyed by racial minorities in
the history of the species. So it's it's carefully designed
to be ambiguous so that when people say systemic, what
they mean is the same thing that the hippies meant
when they said the establishment right right exactly at the piece.
I like it when you mentioned the Hippies Olympics hating
(10:07):
Tim sander for on the line. Um, So if sixteen
nineteen project comes up in your school, like you find
out your kids are being taught that, I'll tell you what.
Google sixteen nineteen project and Tim Sanderford's name, and you'll
come up with some of the stuff that he has written,
and you'll have the ammunition you need to fight back
against your school board. Now, Tim, if you can hang
around for a little bit, I got a couple of
questions because you are one of the You're one of
America's leading finkers on freedom. According to George will of
(10:31):
the Washington Post, you're an American treasure. So a lot
of people out there haven't gotten the vaccine. I didn't
see that coming. I thought we were going to, you know,
race to figure out a vaccine, come up with a vaccine,
figure out how to get it out, and people got
and get vaccinated. I didn't I didn't really see this
coming that there would be a pretty big chunk of
the country that decided they didn't want to get the vaccine. Now,
(10:53):
you're your lefty media really likes to make it all
about dumb white Trump voters, and and uh and uh,
there are an awful lot of other people that aren't
getting the vaccine. Also, for instance, of New York City's
Department of Education employees aren't vaccinated. I doubt many of
those were Trump voters. And there are a lot of
(11:15):
examples of that in big cities across the country. And uh,
for instance, um, African American men are as a percentage,
they as a group of people aren't getting the vaccination
in the highest numbers. So um. So there's a lot
of talk now of forcing people to do it. You're
a libertarian with the great thinkers in America. Where do
you come down on the government forcing people to get vaccinated? Well,
(11:38):
the libertarian principle is that it should be up to
the property owner whether to require somebody to have the
vaccine before going on his property. If I'm a homeowner
and somebody didn't come and have dinner at my house,
I have the right to say you can't come over
to my house if you don't have a vaccine. Same
thing if I'm a business owner or whatever. So the
libertarian answer is that it's a question of prior at
(12:00):
property rights, and that leaves people free to decide for
themselves whether to get the vaccine and come over to
my house or not get the vaccine and not come
over to my house. So the problem that we have
is that we've reduced the rights of property and business
owners so drastically in today's world that people feel like
they have to look to the government to tell give
them guidance on on questions that ought to be individual choices. So, um, well, okay,
(12:26):
well back to their does the federal government if if
they're going to start if the government's going to start
mandating this, is this a federal government thing? Is state
government thing? Who has got the power to even do this?
It should well, As with everything having to do with
health and safety, it's primarily a state matter. And and
that's another thing where we've diverged so much from what
the Constitution actually requires by giving so much power to
(12:47):
the federal government, when in fact this should be a
question that decided at the state level. So for like
my school, everybody knows who's got kids in school. There
are a number of shots that you have to get
to attend a public school. Is that a is that
a county Bay county thing that is informed by the
federal government, or is that a federal mandate under existing law,
it's probably a thing where the the school district gets
(13:09):
funding from the Feds, and in exchange for that funding,
you have to agree to a whole bunch of things.
That's the way most federal control has expanded in the
in the twentie and early twenty one century is by
the Feds coming along and saying, well, well, we'll give
you this this grant, but you have to agree to
follow our rules if you if you receive the grant,
and of course you can't really refuse the grant because
(13:29):
that's your tax money. They've taken that money from you already,
and they say, we'll give you your tax money back
if you agree to these rules, and so you know,
you don't really have a choice about the matter. But
that's the way most federal mandates are imposed now is
I know how you feel about a lot of the
business shutdowns and school shutdowns and everything like that. But
as an individual, and you've got you know, as much
bona fights as anybody I know in America in terms
(13:50):
of libertarian freedom. You know, on my own person, the
government can't make me do things, blah blah blah. Have
you felt like the line was crossed for you personally
and wearing masks or vaccines or anything at any point
during this pandemic? Not really, No, But remember that I
I I reside in Arizona, which had a very different
restaurant to to the pandemic than California did. In California,
(14:12):
have Governor Newso basically declaring one man rule, even though
the state legislature is in session now and could make
the rules, he decides, No, No, I'm going to make
the rules for everybody unilaterally and impose those on everybody.
That was very different than the way our state did it,
which was our governor asked people to stay home for
a while and then asked them to remain safe, and
then local governments, counties I had the primary responsibility for
(14:35):
setting safety rules for how businesses should operate. So I
just have two minutes left, and this just came up
in my own real life, and I want to ask
you about this because you know a lot about the
Second Amendment. So I wanted to buy some ammunition the
other day. I already own a gun, but I wanted
to buy bullets, and I went to the local Big five,
and at least in the county in the state that
I live in, the amount of paperwork that they handed
me and the number of things that I had to
(14:56):
do to just buy some bullets was freaking unbelievable. How
expensive it is the paperwork for the basic background check
for buying bullets. Um, I have to find my birth
certificate that I've got somewhere in a box or whatever.
How does this stop violate my Second Amendment right to
keep in bear arms? Oh? Of course it violates your
Second Amendment rights. It's death by a thousand cuts, or
(15:19):
or as they say, being nibbled to death by ducks. Right.
The state biocrats know perfectly well how to make life
difficult for you. And then they can say, well, we're
not denying you, We're just saying you have to fill
out yet another form and you have to wait another
six months or we at the Goldwater Institute actually have
are suing the state of Illinois for failing to issue
people the permits to which they are legally entitled to
(15:40):
have to hold firearms. Even the state law says that
there's a deadline for the estate to decide whether to
give you or denying the permit. Instead, they just completely
ignore this deadline and take years sometimes to decide whether
or not to give you your firearms permit. Meanwhile, you
have dangerous riots in Chicago and people want firearms to
protect themselves, and the state says, oh, no, you you
(16:01):
you have to fill out yet another form and wait
another six months. Uh, you know, rely on the police.
We are unfortunately out of time. Tim, and I really
appreciate everything you had to say today. I'm gonna pump
your bucks. You want to come back and get
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