May 31, 2024 • 13 mins
Senior Writer for The Dispatch, David Drucker, joins Jack & Joe to talk about the political ramifications of the outcome of the Trump Hush Money trial.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is
going to be No Fifth by the people, and they
know what happened here, and everybody knows what happened here.
And I think it's just a disgrace. And we'll keep fighting.
We'll fight till the end and we'll win because our
country's gone to hell.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And we will fight for our constitution. This is Lord
from overt.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is
going to be November fifth by the people, and they
know what happened here, and everybody knows what happened here. Yeah,
he's right about that. The real verdict is on election day.
And we've talked to a judge, we've talked to a lawyer.
We haven't talked to somebody whose speciality is politics. So
(00:47):
that's what we need to get into.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Who better than David Drucker, senior writer for the Dispatch.
You know him from his years as a senior correspondent
for the Washington Examiner as well. David, welcome, how.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Are you well? Good? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So we've been talking about this for hours and just anecdotally,
it seems to us text emails going through Twitter, that
sort of thing. I see a lot more energized people
who are on the fence about Trump, who want to
vote for Trump, than moving any votes for Biden. How
do you read the political fallout of what happened yesterday?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, I think it's far too early to read the
political fallout. I mean, clearly, you know, anger is always
more energizing in politics, especially when you're the out party
trying to win something back. But I wouldn't I wouldn't
make any snap decisions about how this is going to
impact things. First of all, I don't want to see
(01:43):
immediate polling. I want to see polling that's in the
field after the first ten days after the verdict. That's
number one, Because pulling in the next few days or
even the next week, I don't think it gives you
necessarily an accurate read on where people are. Second of all,
we you know, we've seen over the past ten years
in politics, particularly the Trump era, where you know, it's
(02:07):
like today, there's a crisis. Today, there's the biggest thing
to ever happen in American politics, and that's going to
change everything forever. And then it doesn't, and things just
kind of revert to whatever the normal is. We saw
that with the Access Hollywood tape in the twenty sixteen
campaign where Trump Trump's numbers take a dive and you know,
(02:28):
ten days to two weeks later, he's back to parody.
He ends up winning the election. There are going to
be a lot of intervening events. There are going to
be a lot of different ways Americans can process this,
voters can process this, And so I think that that
partisans may have their predictions and may feel strongly about them,
(02:48):
and somebody's going to turn out to be right potentially,
but we don't actually know with any educated certainty or
even educated sort of guessing, how this thing is going
to play.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, I think I coined a term earlier in the show, David,
and you, of your vast experience and savvy you can
be the judge of whether it's a legit invention. I said,
will this be an event of enduring significance or is
it a vacation tennis racket. It seemed like a great
idea to buy a tennis racket because you played a
little on vacation, but then you put it back in
the closet and you forget about it. It's no big deal, really,
(03:27):
is there an analogous term in political analysis.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I don't know, I might just steal that and say
I can't. I kind of liked it. You know, one
of my colleagues that we were discussing this at a
Dispatch editorial meeting and we have every Friday, and one
of my colleagues suggested that this can have all sorts
of indirect impacts on the campaign. You know. One indirect impact,
for instance, could be that Donald Trump becomes so consumed
(03:54):
by being you know, mistreated in this way if he
sees it that it's all he talks about, right, and
he forgets to talk about inflation and gas prices and
in crime and in foreign policy and all the things
he has going for in the border. And so that's
that's one impact. The other, you know, on a you know,
(04:14):
indirect impact could be that the Biden campaign decides they
need to talk about this at nauseum. I don't think
that would necessarily be a good look, especially since you know,
the Republicans are painting this as a sort of party
wide engineered dragnet to get Trump, and you know, the
parties these days are so weak that you know, if
(04:37):
if Joe Biden could control Alvin Bragg. I don't know
that Alvin Bragg would have ever brought this case. So
who knows how this is going to play out? I mean,
I think we do know. In the immediate it's certainly
helping Donald Trump's fundraising. It's certainly giving voters who say
they've been on the fence or unenthusiastic about supporting Trump
(05:00):
a reason to do so. And they're telling us this
is now why they're doing so. I still wonder if
these are the same voters that would have found a
way to come home to the Republican Party by November
one way or the other. But look, in politics, you
prefer not to have any guineas, right, So if you're
the Biden campaign, why have any reason for Donald Trump
(05:21):
to raise thirty five million dollars overnight or any reason
for voters claiming to be skeptical of him to decide
they're no longer skeptical of him by the same token.
You know, this could impact swing voters or independence in
a negative way. It could remind suburban women of all
the reasons why they didn't, you know, like Donald Trump,
(05:41):
or were glad to be rid of him four years ago,
even though you know, they've been unhappy with let's say,
President Biden's leadership on the economy and things like that.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So do you steal cars while you're talking to us?
Is that what's going on there?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Listen? I live in Washington, DC, and I pulled over
just to talk to you, which means you're gonna get
all sorts of around here.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Hey, he's risking a carjacking. We appreciate it. Hey, So,
speaking of things being a good look or not, what
did you think of ancient rambling Robert de Niro in
from of the courthouse the other day? Was that a
good move by the Biden people?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
You know? So look, the easy answer is, know, why
would they do that? Joe Biden supposed to be the
candidate of norms and value, you know, norms and and
and in doing things the normal way and all that stuff.
But you know, I sometimes I think we overthink this.
(06:39):
And I like to remind people that the Democratic Party
also has a base and they also like candidates who
are fighters. And they think Donald Trump has been getting
away with, you know, everything for years, and when is
somebody going to stand up to him and finally put
him in his place? So it's paulib it's sending the
(07:00):
nero there to to yip yapp made a lot of
Democrats feel like, yeah, good, somebody's sticking it to Trump.
How come it's only Republicans to get to go before
the cameras and hogg the spotlight and look again, it's
one of those things. Are people really going to go
into the voting booth or voter early and you know,
beginning in September October and said, well, you know, I
(07:23):
was going to vote for Biden. He was a normal guy.
But man, that Robert de Niro, that just that just
rounded for me. I just I just don't think it matters.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, good to see one of Joe Biden's contemporaries getting
some attention anyway, Speaking of which David, various wags and
sources and and thinkers have said the whispers have become
murmurs or even louder than that about President Biden's mental
acuity at this point, and is decline, what are you hearing?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I don't hear that from Democrats. What I hear from
Democrats is that he obviously presents physically impaired. Right. He
presents like an old man, the way he walks, the
way he shuffles around sometimes the way he turns this
way or that way, and that's why voters think that
he is too old for this job. And it's a problem.
(08:17):
I have not talked to any Democrats who have told me,
oh my god, the guy's lost it. And in fact,
if you look at how the White House is functioning,
it occurred. It would not occur to me that he's
lost it, because this is functioning exactly the way you
would expect that Joe Biden white House, you know, foreign,
domestic policy, in politics to function. Joe Biden's always trying
(08:38):
to please everybody. It's always trying to find the center
of the Democratic Party, not the center of American politics,
the center of the Democratic Party. He's always been a
left of center liberal Democrat, and the further than the
left the Democratic Party has moved in recent years. For
a guy that wants to be in the center of
that would also have moved left. I don't think that's
(09:00):
an issue.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I think I just I couldn't. I couldn't disagree more strongly.
We play a lot of audio on this show. You
listen to Joe Biden two years ago. He is a
different human being than Joe Biden twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, I don't think he's that different. I think he's older,
but I don't think he's incoherent. It sounds much different
than Joe Biden of twenty or forty years ago in
terms of the substance coming out of his mouth. He
talks a little bit more like he's an old man.
But you're asking me like, is he mentally diminished? Has
(09:36):
he lost his marble?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
No?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I think if you look at the breath of his career,
this is the Joe Biden that I would have In fact,
I would have expected Joe Biden to be further to
the left on certain issues than he is. And I
just he presents like somebody who is a lot older
than he used to be but still functioning. So, by
(10:00):
the way, I'm not saying this to say there's no problem,
this is a huge problem for him. I think it
gets in the way the way he presents and what
people think of their ability to believe he can do anything,
even things they disagree with. And I think that impacts
the polling. In other words, when Joe Biden says, look
at my economic plan compared to Trump's, I think a
(10:20):
lot of voters say, what's the point of looking at
your economic plan. You can't do anything. You're too old.
And that's a huge problem for him because if he's
going to convince people that are persuadable, hey, listen, you
might like to be better than Trump when you really
take a look at things. If their whole thing is
we just don't think you're up to this one way
or the other, that means he can't even have a
(10:42):
debate on issues, or a debate on Trump's ethical foibles
or things like that. It's like he's got to just
convince people that he can get up in the morning.
And that's a problem. But when you ask me, like,
what are the whispers about his mental acuity, I can
tell you what Democrats tell me is they recognize how
it looks, but they tell me that they don't see
(11:05):
anything in his decision making or ability to process information.
His ability to communicate is a whole different story. But
processing and deciding, they say, is still there.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Well, we've got to uh, we got to let you go.
We're big fans of the Dispatch, man. I take in
all the podcasts and read it every morning and all
that sort of stuff. So glad you're there.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Hey. I remember I don't know if it was the
day after Trump announced nine years ago, it was certainly,
And like in the first couple of days we had
you on and I remember you coming on and the
first thing you said, we introduced you and you said,
trump trump trumpety trump trump trumpety trump trump trump. It's
the only word I've heard in the last couple of days.
And it's been that way for nine years now. It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Listen. I'm in my early fifties and I'm just hoping
that before I'm dead, which I hope is not for
a long time, just to make things interesting, we get
to a day when that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, me soon would that it were.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
David Drucker, senior writer for The Dispatch, Absolutely worth a
reading to click David. Always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Thanks he got guys, take care yep.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, he's uh. He's just nuts to think that Joe
Biden isn't significantly different than he was a few years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I involve our institutions, Yeah, I don't. I don't doubt
anything he said about his processing ability at times, uh,
and his decision making and where he stands on issues
and stuff like that. But uh, what I call that?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Drucker said, Democrats tell him they don't see a difference.
I don't doubt that.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, what do his best friends say off the record?
But you know that's fine.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, well I don't
Speaker 2 (12:51):
The evidence of your eyes slash ears, amigos, amigas,
This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is
going to be No Fifth by the people, and they
know what happened here, and everybody knows what happened here.
And I think it's just a disgrace. And we'll keep fighting.
We'll fight till the end and we'll win because our
country's gone to hell.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And we will fight for our constitution. This is Lord
from overt.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is
going to be November fifth by the people, and they
know what happened here, and everybody knows what happened here. Yeah,
he's right about that. The real verdict is on election day.
And we've talked to a judge, we've talked to a lawyer.
We haven't talked to somebody whose speciality is politics. So
(00:47):
that's what we need to get into.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Who better than David Drucker, senior writer for the Dispatch.
You know him from his years as a senior correspondent
for the Washington Examiner as well. David, welcome, how.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Are you well? Good? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So we've been talking about this for hours and just anecdotally,
it seems to us text emails going through Twitter, that
sort of thing. I see a lot more energized people
who are on the fence about Trump, who want to
vote for Trump, than moving any votes for Biden. How
do you read the political fallout of what happened yesterday?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, I think it's far too early to read the
political fallout. I mean, clearly, you know, anger is always
more energizing in politics, especially when you're the out party
trying to win something back. But I wouldn't I wouldn't
make any snap decisions about how this is going to
impact things. First of all, I don't want to see
(01:43):
immediate polling. I want to see polling that's in the
field after the first ten days after the verdict. That's
number one, Because pulling in the next few days or
even the next week, I don't think it gives you
necessarily an accurate read on where people are. Second of all,
we you know, we've seen over the past ten years
in politics, particularly the Trump era, where you know, it's
(02:07):
like today, there's a crisis. Today, there's the biggest thing
to ever happen in American politics, and that's going to
change everything forever. And then it doesn't, and things just
kind of revert to whatever the normal is. We saw
that with the Access Hollywood tape in the twenty sixteen
campaign where Trump Trump's numbers take a dive and you know,
(02:28):
ten days to two weeks later, he's back to parody.
He ends up winning the election. There are going to
be a lot of intervening events. There are going to
be a lot of different ways Americans can process this,
voters can process this, And so I think that that
partisans may have their predictions and may feel strongly about them,
(02:48):
and somebody's going to turn out to be right potentially,
but we don't actually know with any educated certainty or
even educated sort of guessing, how this thing is going
to play.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, I think I coined a term earlier in the show, David,
and you, of your vast experience and savvy you can
be the judge of whether it's a legit invention. I said,
will this be an event of enduring significance or is
it a vacation tennis racket. It seemed like a great
idea to buy a tennis racket because you played a
little on vacation, but then you put it back in
the closet and you forget about it. It's no big deal, really,
(03:27):
is there an analogous term in political analysis.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I don't know, I might just steal that and say
I can't. I kind of liked it. You know, one
of my colleagues that we were discussing this at a
Dispatch editorial meeting and we have every Friday, and one
of my colleagues suggested that this can have all sorts
of indirect impacts on the campaign. You know. One indirect impact,
for instance, could be that Donald Trump becomes so consumed
(03:54):
by being you know, mistreated in this way if he
sees it that it's all he talks about, right, and
he forgets to talk about inflation and gas prices and
in crime and in foreign policy and all the things
he has going for in the border. And so that's
that's one impact. The other, you know, on a you know,
(04:14):
indirect impact could be that the Biden campaign decides they
need to talk about this at nauseum. I don't think
that would necessarily be a good look, especially since you know,
the Republicans are painting this as a sort of party
wide engineered dragnet to get Trump, and you know, the
parties these days are so weak that you know, if
(04:37):
if Joe Biden could control Alvin Bragg. I don't know
that Alvin Bragg would have ever brought this case. So
who knows how this is going to play out? I mean,
I think we do know. In the immediate it's certainly
helping Donald Trump's fundraising. It's certainly giving voters who say
they've been on the fence or unenthusiastic about supporting Trump
(05:00):
a reason to do so. And they're telling us this
is now why they're doing so. I still wonder if
these are the same voters that would have found a
way to come home to the Republican Party by November
one way or the other. But look, in politics, you
prefer not to have any guineas, right, So if you're
the Biden campaign, why have any reason for Donald Trump
(05:21):
to raise thirty five million dollars overnight or any reason
for voters claiming to be skeptical of him to decide
they're no longer skeptical of him by the same token.
You know, this could impact swing voters or independence in
a negative way. It could remind suburban women of all
the reasons why they didn't, you know, like Donald Trump,
(05:41):
or were glad to be rid of him four years ago,
even though you know, they've been unhappy with let's say,
President Biden's leadership on the economy and things like that.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So do you steal cars while you're talking to us?
Is that what's going on there?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Listen? I live in Washington, DC, and I pulled over
just to talk to you, which means you're gonna get
all sorts of around here.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Hey, he's risking a carjacking. We appreciate it. Hey, So,
speaking of things being a good look or not, what
did you think of ancient rambling Robert de Niro in
from of the courthouse the other day? Was that a
good move by the Biden people?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
You know? So look, the easy answer is, know, why
would they do that? Joe Biden supposed to be the
candidate of norms and value, you know, norms and and
and in doing things the normal way and all that stuff.
But you know, I sometimes I think we overthink this.
(06:39):
And I like to remind people that the Democratic Party
also has a base and they also like candidates who
are fighters. And they think Donald Trump has been getting
away with, you know, everything for years, and when is
somebody going to stand up to him and finally put
him in his place? So it's paulib it's sending the
(07:00):
nero there to to yip yapp made a lot of
Democrats feel like, yeah, good, somebody's sticking it to Trump.
How come it's only Republicans to get to go before
the cameras and hogg the spotlight and look again, it's
one of those things. Are people really going to go
into the voting booth or voter early and you know,
beginning in September October and said, well, you know, I
(07:23):
was going to vote for Biden. He was a normal guy.
But man, that Robert de Niro, that just that just
rounded for me. I just I just don't think it matters.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, good to see one of Joe Biden's contemporaries getting
some attention anyway, Speaking of which David, various wags and
sources and and thinkers have said the whispers have become
murmurs or even louder than that about President Biden's mental
acuity at this point, and is decline, what are you hearing?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I don't hear that from Democrats. What I hear from
Democrats is that he obviously presents physically impaired. Right. He
presents like an old man, the way he walks, the
way he shuffles around sometimes the way he turns this
way or that way, and that's why voters think that
he is too old for this job. And it's a problem.
(08:17):
I have not talked to any Democrats who have told me,
oh my god, the guy's lost it. And in fact,
if you look at how the White House is functioning,
it occurred. It would not occur to me that he's
lost it, because this is functioning exactly the way you
would expect that Joe Biden white House, you know, foreign,
domestic policy, in politics to function. Joe Biden's always trying
(08:38):
to please everybody. It's always trying to find the center
of the Democratic Party, not the center of American politics,
the center of the Democratic Party. He's always been a
left of center liberal Democrat, and the further than the
left the Democratic Party has moved in recent years. For
a guy that wants to be in the center of
that would also have moved left. I don't think that's
(09:00):
an issue.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I think I just I couldn't. I couldn't disagree more strongly.
We play a lot of audio on this show. You
listen to Joe Biden two years ago. He is a
different human being than Joe Biden twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, I don't think he's that different. I think he's older,
but I don't think he's incoherent. It sounds much different
than Joe Biden of twenty or forty years ago in
terms of the substance coming out of his mouth. He
talks a little bit more like he's an old man.
But you're asking me like, is he mentally diminished? Has
(09:36):
he lost his marble?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
No?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I think if you look at the breath of his career,
this is the Joe Biden that I would have In fact,
I would have expected Joe Biden to be further to
the left on certain issues than he is. And I
just he presents like somebody who is a lot older
than he used to be but still functioning. So, by
(10:00):
the way, I'm not saying this to say there's no problem,
this is a huge problem for him. I think it
gets in the way the way he presents and what
people think of their ability to believe he can do anything,
even things they disagree with. And I think that impacts
the polling. In other words, when Joe Biden says, look
at my economic plan compared to Trump's, I think a
(10:20):
lot of voters say, what's the point of looking at
your economic plan. You can't do anything. You're too old.
And that's a huge problem for him because if he's
going to convince people that are persuadable, hey, listen, you
might like to be better than Trump when you really
take a look at things. If their whole thing is
we just don't think you're up to this one way
or the other, that means he can't even have a
(10:42):
debate on issues, or a debate on Trump's ethical foibles
or things like that. It's like he's got to just
convince people that he can get up in the morning.
And that's a problem. But when you ask me, like,
what are the whispers about his mental acuity, I can
tell you what Democrats tell me is they recognize how
it looks, but they tell me that they don't see
(11:05):
anything in his decision making or ability to process information.
His ability to communicate is a whole different story. But
processing and deciding, they say, is still there.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Well, we've got to uh, we got to let you go.
We're big fans of the Dispatch, man. I take in
all the podcasts and read it every morning and all
that sort of stuff. So glad you're there.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Hey. I remember I don't know if it was the
day after Trump announced nine years ago, it was certainly,
And like in the first couple of days we had
you on and I remember you coming on and the
first thing you said, we introduced you and you said,
trump trump trumpety trump trump trumpety trump trump trump. It's
the only word I've heard in the last couple of days.
And it's been that way for nine years now. It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Listen. I'm in my early fifties and I'm just hoping
that before I'm dead, which I hope is not for
a long time, just to make things interesting, we get
to a day when that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, me soon would that it were.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
David Drucker, senior writer for The Dispatch, Absolutely worth a
reading to click David. Always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Thanks he got guys, take care yep.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, he's uh. He's just nuts to think that Joe
Biden isn't significantly different than he was a few years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I involve our institutions, Yeah, I don't. I don't doubt
anything he said about his processing ability at times, uh,
and his decision making and where he stands on issues
and stuff like that. But uh, what I call that?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Drucker said, Democrats tell him they don't see a difference.
I don't doubt that.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, what do his best friends say off the record?
But you know that's fine.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, well I don't
Speaker 2 (12:51):
The evidence of your eyes slash ears, amigos, amigas,
Hosts And Creators
Joe Getty
Jack Armstrong
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com