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May 31, 2024 11 mins

Criminal defense & civil trial lawyer Andrew Cherkasky joins Jack and Joe to talk about the verdict in the Trump Hush Money trial.  

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He thinks this is a tough guy look that will
work for him.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Presumably he also kind of has to lean into it, right.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
You can't pretend not to be a criminal while you're
a criminal defendant. We've been holding our breath as a
country for a long time, waiting for the cavalry to
arrive in the form of the rule of law, and
it did arrive today, and it's a majestic day.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
I wanted to be able to see this moment with
my own eyes. In about three weeks from today, I
will have been covering Donald Trump for nine years. There
will not have been a day in the past nine years,
I think where I have not mentioned his name or
at least thought a thought about Donald Trump.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
His whole dream was to be respected in Manhattan, and
it was in Manhattan where he was brought low. I
think there's something interesting and poetic about that, mister Stenglass.
I think some of you probably saw him speak well a.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Little bit the other day, so he's done his job.

Speaker 4 (00:54):
It was very satisfying to finally see this guy get them,
come up and thank you so much. Anything going on today,
a lot of glee from a lot of different people
on the left over the verdict yesterday. I mean the
reporter who has the been following Trump, as you heard
her say there since he came down the elevator for NBC,

(01:17):
just beaming with excitement that she got to be there
for when he finally got his come up.

Speaker 5 (01:22):
Ands So, Donald Trump convicted of all thirty four strange
and convoluted felony charges. To discuss the outcome and what
comes next, We've delighted to have Andrew Gerkawski, criminal defense
and civil trial lawyer. You've seen him on all the
big cable news channels and major newspapers and websites. Andrew,
how are you. It's a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, good morning. How are you? Guys?

Speaker 5 (01:45):
We're terrific. Thank you. So I had in real life
friends calling me last night because they know I follow
this stuff. Say, dude, is what happened? What does this mean?
So I will hit you with the same question, what happened?
What does this mean?

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, I think the jury got it wrong. I'll tell
you why. The whole case was about a very basic
idea that when he paid Michael Cone the money to
pay back essentially for what Michael Cone put out for
Stormy Daniels for that hush money agreement. That was a
legal thing to do to pay off that hush money agreement.
The idea that, the most basic idea is that he

(02:19):
put in his accounting books that that was a legal expense,
and that's what the jury fundamentally had to decide was wrong.
We never got any evidence about that, And frankly, as
a business owner, as an attorney myself, I don't know
what you put in your accounting books as that payment
if not legal expense. Now, if he had put in
their charity or construction costs and paid it in cash,

(02:44):
everybody in the country would know that that's a fraud,
that's a crime, that's wrong to do. But he put
legal expense. He put it in at ninety nine, he
put it in his ethics forms that he had paid
this money. And so I just fundamentally disagree with the
idea that that arching a business person for putting that
on that line item is wrong. And then all of

(03:05):
the Michael Cohene and Stormy Daniels, I think that was
the defense getting caught up in the mud of what
the prosecution essentially did, which was a lot of mudslinging.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
I thought in my Quicken program there's a category for
trollop silencing.

Speaker 5 (03:19):
There's not.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Just click on that week.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
We need to make sure that QuickBooks adds a Stormy
Daniels hush money payment line item for folks just so
they don't get in trouble.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
So I don't what I think this matters, because the
part of the claim that I heard a lot yesterday
was the election wouldn't have been this close if people
had known about his payment to Stormy Daniels. Would we
even have known if he filed it the way they
say he needed to file it, I mean, because it
was in October before a November election, I'm not sure

(03:56):
would we even have found out anyway.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, the reporting timeline for a campaign contribution would have
been after the election in that case. And so I
think people really have to focus in on if you're
going to allow this conviction to sway you or to
have some influence, what is it that upsets you about it?
And are you honest about what you're being upset by
or are you just part of the Trump derangement syndrome

(04:20):
type circumstances here because you really I mean, I guess
some people might be offended by the idea of putting
legal expenses in there. If that's what gets you angry,
if that's what is going to cause you not to
vote for Donald Trump, then you probably weren't going to
vote for him all along. But if you're kind of
on the fence here and you just want to say, well,
he was convicted and so I can't vote for him,
I think that's foolish and shortsighted because you really have

(04:43):
to any crime, you have to get to the heart
of what upsets you, and I just don't see what's
upsetting about this.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
So we are both intrigued by the politics of if
I am especially interested in how this might go in
the appeal, but I think the fundamental question really is
important question is.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
What sort of charge is this?

Speaker 5 (05:06):
A local prosecutor contorting a state law into enforcing federal
election law, and how dangerous is this? Andrew going forward
to the Republic.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, it's called law fare. So you turn the law,
the criminal law, into a wildly mishmashed of difficult to
understand legal charging scheme in order to advance your political ideas.
And that's how I see it. I know people may
see it a different way, but you have to really

(05:38):
look at what the basics are here. The idea of
politics and for campaigns is to promote certain ideas that
they think are beneficial and to try to quash stories
that are detrimental to the campaign. It's gone on for
as long as the country has been around. We could
point to dozens of examples of leaders on both sides
in every degree of campaign that occurs, from you know,

(06:01):
school boards and county clerks all the way up to
the president of the United States. And so we really
have to look at what we're doing in terms of
the future. Is this really what we want to see
happen to other candidates, because now the gloves are off,
and I can't imagine that the Republicans would hold back
on their desires to prosecute their political enemies. Of course,

(06:23):
remember Donald Trump, although he ran on lock her up
to Hillary Clinton, never pursued additional criminal charges and he
could have against her.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
M boy, that's a good point in the future. If
we keep going down this road, candidates will do that.
So the likelihood of him going to jail, I keep
heering over and over again. It's very unlikely, but very
unlikely means there is some likelihood, And you've got a
defendant who convicted on thirty four felonies, who his bad

(06:54):
mouth the judge, the process, and the jury, and has
shown no contrition whatsoever. Is there a chance he spends
any time in jail in your mind? And a judge
that has made it pretty clear that he doesn't like Trump.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
You gave all the reasons why I think that there's
a chance that that jail time could be issued here now,
if you look at the New York standards and the
law that is currently in place, especially in light of
all of the justice reform that has been pushed forward
by the Democrats, this would fall outside of a jail
time sentence. And that's specifically because it's a first time offense,
it's non violent, and there are alternate ways essentially to

(07:30):
go about doing this. There's other mitigating factors as well,
to include his age and its prior foremant of public
dutys and services for the country.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
And of course, Andrew, I must jump in here and
point out Donald Trump as a man of color, that
color being orange.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
I'm sure you know. They also ask him during his
probation interview if he is employed or if he's applying
for any new job. So I suppose he can right
in there that he's applying for the President of the
United States.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
I'm lying for leader of the Free world.

Speaker 5 (08:02):
So Andrew and I know this is difficult to predict,
but were the judge to say, now, we can't let
this sort of thing go, I'm sentencing you to sixty days,
which happens to cover the Republican Convention and an important
part of the campaign. Where does it go from there?
Is it conceivable the Supreme Court would hold an emergency

(08:25):
hearing or anything like that, or would he just go
to jail?

Speaker 2 (08:29):
So there are appeal options. He's certainly going to appeal,
and notice of appeal is due within thirty days of
the actual sentence, which is scheduled for July eleventh. Now
there are earlier opportunities that they can essentially motion for
the appellate Court to stay or pause any sentencing proceedings
or at least the execution of a sentence. So if

(08:52):
jail were to be issued while it's not appeal, they
don't actually have him serve his time. They instead hear
the appeal first, which is likely to take many months
or a year or more in fact, And so I
think it crawls for that system. I think the appellate court,
even if they don't ultimately give him relief, although I
think that there's a very good chance and we'd have
round two of this trial. I would find it hard

(09:15):
to believe that the appellate court would allow him to
be locked up at this point. But there is no
kind of like silver bullet here to make sure that
that doesn't happen. This is all just hoping and praying
with the democratic justices that are both at the trial
level and then of course at the appellate levels.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
You know, and orange guy in an orange jumpsuit would
really look like an OPA lumpa.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
It could be read advertising for his campaign. I suppose
you know those pictures of his oh yeah, of his
mugshot really sold well.

Speaker 5 (09:44):
That's true, Andrew Tcherkowski, criminal defense and civil trial lawyer.
Really enlightening, Andrew. We thank you for the time.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
So that theme kind of seemed to grow throughout the
day that you know, people needed this in from to
know how to vote. There are voters out there who
would have said, first of all, as you heard there,
the filing information wouldn't have gotten to us before the election.
I don't think anyway. But and was there anybody who

(10:16):
didn't think, oh my god, he is a man who
lays down with fallen women. I mean, does that person
exist anywhere? No?

Speaker 5 (10:26):
I think at best this is a wash in terms
of motivating voters. And I would suggest, because I'm feeling
it in my own ticker, this will invigorate marginally Trump
supporting conservatives and Republicans to think, Look, I don't like
the Orange guy. I think he's a prick or he's irresponsible.

(10:49):
I wouldn't go that far. You know all of the
complaints about Trump, we know what they are. And yet
I can't reward this sort of lawfair and this this
new road we're going down. We've got to stop it.
I'm holding my nose and voting for Trump. I think
you will see a significant surge of enthusiasm among Republicans.

(11:11):
We got a lot more on this and other stuff,
and we'd like to hear from you. Our text line
is four one five two nine five KFTC
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