September 12, 2024 • 12 mins
A question--who is going to pay for that orchestra? And why?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You should press your face against a hot stove. It's
one more thing.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I look forward to, whatever that is. But before we
get to it, I was listening to NPR driving to
work today. What does it always say about listening to NPR.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I do that to punish myself for the bad things
I've done.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's like, whatever the devout Catholics are who whip themselves
with the beads to make themselves guys. Yeah, yeah, that's what.
That's what listening to NPR is if you don't like it.
But anyway, they were doing a story about how orchestras,
classical music orchestras are struggling all around the country in
(00:45):
various cities. Are just people Millennials are killing orchestras like
millennials killed China and bedspreads. People just aren't as interests.
People just aren't as interested in going to see live
classical music at their local venue anymore. And they talked
on NPR as if this is something that needs to
(01:05):
always exist. Of course, so let's just get to the
how do we support it? Part? And I was thinking,
and the reason I wanted to ask joke is because
Joe's actually a classical music fan. I am not. Do
you think it's something that needs to continue or is
it like any other music it comes and goes. I mean,
I'm a big fan of jazz, but like going back
(01:27):
to the early twentieth century, ragtime was the biggest thing
in the country for like thirty years. I mean, it
was the number one music absolutely everywhere. Then it disappeared.
I mean, things come and go. Is now classical music
has been around for much longer than thirty years. But
is this a crisis if people just aren't interested in
(01:47):
hearing classical music from their local orchestra.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, I'll tell you what, boy, the thing I teased
will do another day, because you have opened a can
of verms, okay, which is almost classical music.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Joke there.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Wow, that is a great, great question. We were recording
this shortly after we wrapped up the radio show for
the day, in which we were discussing Chesterton's fence, the
idea that you don't remove a fence until you know
one why that fence was there. It's one of the
tenets of conservatism and how a lot of standards of
(02:24):
decency and manners and all sorts of stuff have eroded
in society and a lot of those customs might not
have been that it wasn't clear why they were important.
But as they evaporate, you see more and more bad
behavior of all sorts of kind. It's like the broken
(02:47):
windows policing. Rudy Giuliani advocated, an end of decency in
a few of these realms will usher in an end
of decency in this realm, which is not getting your
head caved in for your stuff. And it's not always
easy to draw a line how you got from one
place to another, but that's, you know, that's the principle
(03:09):
that we were discussing. I think, and I haven't really
thought about this much because it's a really good question.
I think this might be the other side of that
same coin. There is value in preserving the most important
and exquisite art forms.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Whether I can tell you exactly why or not.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Do you agree to that to the point that you
think taxpayers should keep orchestras going in cities, even if people,
even if there's not enough money in it, not enough
people are interested to go and make it self supporting.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yes, And these traxes should be taken from Rubes by
force if necessary.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
The sort of route it's going to buy the Haktua
Girl's latest album and a T shirt.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, this is why I love this question, because it's
causing me to go up against some of my beliefs
about taxation and government and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
You seem to have a comment.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Oh, classical music.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I used to listen to it when I was studying
growing up, and because I'm one of those people where
I always have music on and I because silence makes
me uncomfortable, so I always have something going on in
the background.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Do you have ADD or ADHD, either one of those. Yeah. Yeah,
So people that have that, because I've got a friend
who got their PhD has ADD, they have to have
music on in the background or they can't concentrate. I'm
the opposite most of the time. I want it silent,
fun in a concentrate, but I don't have ADD.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Ninety seven and a half percent of the time I
was studying in high school and college A had music going.
I'm one hundred percent certain I would have gotten diagnosed
in elementary school one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Anyway, getting back to the classical music thing.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I'm on an I SI classical music. By the way,
I'm just not a fan. I don't know seek it
out or listen to it regularly.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Oh sure, no, Well this is again for like the
fourth time. This is a great question that goes to
the role of government and taxation and the rest of it.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
I think if you.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Openly make that part of your platform, that if we
all kick in a tiny bit, we can have this
really great stuff because just in the current economy of
entertainment and art, it's very difficult for classical music to
be self sustaining because it is so expensive to produce live.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Oh sure, god yeah, I have never even thought about that.
If horn sections have gone away from bands over the years,
because there's no way you can have a band that
plays that pays you know, four horn players, Well then
how about one hundred people with twenty you know, violin
players or whatever. Of course that doesn't work out money.
But I'm always talking about how, you know, the the
(05:53):
generations die off, and then there won't be anybody who
even remembers the past with a variety of things. I
always talk about customer service or whatever. Well, I'll bet
a lot of your wealthy, older patrons who cared about
classical music are dying off, and your next group of
rich people they don't care about classical music, so that's
not what they're giving money.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Too, right, Yeah, yeah, and so I guess you know,
my answer would be the same as any other government
policy that costs any money, if you are open about, hey,
we're dedicating this amount of the budget to this stuff
because we think it's important for these reasons. And then
you stand for election the next time, and and or
you hear from your constituents so much this is a
(06:34):
waste of taxpayer money.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
You got to stop.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I'd rather give it to the you know, the school
lunch program or whatever. That's a legitimate function of democracy.
I would like to see it continue because I think
it is the the highest form of musical creativity. It's
and it takes effort to get it, but it's it's
(07:00):
like the difference between a mud hut.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And that was a condescending comment that insinuates that if
people don't like classical music, they're just not trying hard
enough or unwilling to put in the effort. That's what
you were saying.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
No, I wasn't not at all. No.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
No, It's like no, no, And that was an insulting,
an idiotic thing to say.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Your turn, Who.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Do you like better Batch or beef ovene.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You are a subhuman and I would like to see
you plead Batch clearly.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
No, I'm a Beethoven guy. No.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
What I was trying to say is appreciating classical music
is a lot like appreciating a skyscraper. I was about
to say, classical music is to other forms of music
as like a woodshack is to a skyscraper, in that
a guy like me has to be like led along
by an architect or an engineer to understand how astonishing
(08:00):
skyscraper is.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
It's a tall building. You just pot one floor on
top of the other. You know, I would say, because
I don't really understand that stuff. If you get a
little tutorial in classical music and learn to appreciate it,
it's amazing, but it takes effort.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I'm with lou Reed one chords, All you need two
is okay? Three year into jazz.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I will.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I've always loved that saying, and I will also for
what it's worth. Many times when I'm feeling I need
to get my rock on, I'll throw on the Sex Pistols.
Never mind the Bullocks. It's one of my favorite albums.
But you know, should should it be supported by taxpayers.
It's up to the taxpayers, clearly.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Or I guess the bigger crime question is is it
a like a real cultural crime to have it go
away because it's not as popular anymore?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
You vote, Yeah, there's there's one point so obvious. I
almost skipped over it. But the recordings exist, and the
scores exist, and the video exists, and so it's not
as good as live. But somebody could, certainly if they
were running against me, Joe the orchestra fan running for
(09:17):
mayor versus Jack, this is a waste of money fan,
you could absolutely make the case that. Look, if you're
into Beethoven, there's exquisite surround sound four K videos of
the Berlin Philharmonic playing him ten years ago. That's good enough.
We need money for other stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And then the people go to the polls and they vote.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Man, I've never been in like an orchestra with like
many violins or anything like that, but I played in
you know, like high school band sort of orchestra, and man,
you get everybody playing a piece and everything like that live,
just sitting in it as the trumpet player. It's awesome. Yeah,
I mean the way just there's no speaker system that
can replicate that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, there's some really good spatial sound production, like surround sound,
where you get a sense of all, right, this sound
is coming from that direction, this one's coming from the
other one. It's difficult to simulate what it's like to
be in a symphony hall hearing that, but.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah. I don't think it moves the air the same
way the banging a drum, a timpany or a tuba.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Or whatever, but I don't know, right, And the there's
a certain breathlessness you get when they go full pianismo,
which means the quietest quiet, when you go from Beethoven's
full bomb bast down to everybody's afraid to breathe because
(10:45):
it's one violin playing something exquisitely soft. It's incredibly dramatic.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
But again, let the taxpayers aside.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, we'll see, yes, Michael.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Now I was going to share a very special classical
piece of music. Do you remember or this?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I know where this is going? Hit it? Yeah, a
fifth of Beethoven Disco Beethoven Man, when everything had to
be disco. I like this. Oh it's cool.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So I don't believe in snobbery. I don't like snobbery.
I try never to be a snob. I might appreciate
certain things more less than you do. I try not
to be a snob. Do me a favor. If you say, hey,
Joe's coming over, why don't we put on some classical music,
and you throw on the opening movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony,
(11:50):
I'm walking out. Okay, okay, it's the You like Zeppelin.
I like Zeppelin. You know Stairway to Heaven. Yes, I know,
Staring Heaven. Yeah, they're the best band ever. Stairway to
Heaven's a great song.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I know it is. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
You say you don't like to be a snob.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, no, I would never call anybody on it. I
would not because that would be being a dick.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, I guess that's it.
You should press your face against a hot stove. It's
one more thing.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I look forward to, whatever that is. But before we
get to it, I was listening to NPR driving to
work today. What does it always say about listening to NPR.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I do that to punish myself for the bad things
I've done.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's like, whatever the devout Catholics are who whip themselves
with the beads to make themselves guys. Yeah, yeah, that's what.
That's what listening to NPR is if you don't like it.
But anyway, they were doing a story about how orchestras,
classical music orchestras are struggling all around the country in
(00:45):
various cities. Are just people Millennials are killing orchestras like
millennials killed China and bedspreads. People just aren't as interests.
People just aren't as interested in going to see live
classical music at their local venue anymore. And they talked
on NPR as if this is something that needs to
(01:05):
always exist. Of course, so let's just get to the
how do we support it? Part? And I was thinking,
and the reason I wanted to ask joke is because
Joe's actually a classical music fan. I am not. Do
you think it's something that needs to continue or is
it like any other music it comes and goes. I mean,
I'm a big fan of jazz, but like going back
(01:27):
to the early twentieth century, ragtime was the biggest thing
in the country for like thirty years. I mean, it
was the number one music absolutely everywhere. Then it disappeared.
I mean, things come and go. Is now classical music
has been around for much longer than thirty years. But
is this a crisis if people just aren't interested in
(01:47):
hearing classical music from their local orchestra.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, I'll tell you what, boy, the thing I teased
will do another day, because you have opened a can
of verms, okay, which is almost classical music.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Joke there.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Wow, that is a great, great question. We were recording
this shortly after we wrapped up the radio show for
the day, in which we were discussing Chesterton's fence, the
idea that you don't remove a fence until you know
one why that fence was there. It's one of the
tenets of conservatism and how a lot of standards of
(02:24):
decency and manners and all sorts of stuff have eroded
in society and a lot of those customs might not
have been that it wasn't clear why they were important.
But as they evaporate, you see more and more bad
behavior of all sorts of kind. It's like the broken
(02:47):
windows policing. Rudy Giuliani advocated, an end of decency in
a few of these realms will usher in an end
of decency in this realm, which is not getting your
head caved in for your stuff. And it's not always
easy to draw a line how you got from one
place to another, but that's, you know, that's the principle
(03:09):
that we were discussing. I think, and I haven't really
thought about this much because it's a really good question.
I think this might be the other side of that
same coin. There is value in preserving the most important
and exquisite art forms.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Whether I can tell you exactly why or not.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Do you agree to that to the point that you
think taxpayers should keep orchestras going in cities, even if people,
even if there's not enough money in it, not enough
people are interested to go and make it self supporting.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yes, And these traxes should be taken from Rubes by
force if necessary.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
The sort of route it's going to buy the Haktua
Girl's latest album and a T shirt.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, this is why I love this question, because it's
causing me to go up against some of my beliefs
about taxation and government and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
You seem to have a comment.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Oh, classical music.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I used to listen to it when I was studying
growing up, and because I'm one of those people where
I always have music on and I because silence makes
me uncomfortable, so I always have something going on in
the background.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Do you have ADD or ADHD, either one of those. Yeah. Yeah,
So people that have that, because I've got a friend
who got their PhD has ADD, they have to have
music on in the background or they can't concentrate. I'm
the opposite most of the time. I want it silent,
fun in a concentrate, but I don't have ADD.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Ninety seven and a half percent of the time I
was studying in high school and college A had music going.
I'm one hundred percent certain I would have gotten diagnosed
in elementary school one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Anyway, getting back to the classical music thing.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I'm on an I SI classical music. By the way,
I'm just not a fan. I don't know seek it
out or listen to it regularly.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Oh sure, no, Well this is again for like the
fourth time. This is a great question that goes to
the role of government and taxation and the rest of it.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
I think if you.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Openly make that part of your platform, that if we
all kick in a tiny bit, we can have this
really great stuff because just in the current economy of
entertainment and art, it's very difficult for classical music to
be self sustaining because it is so expensive to produce live.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Oh sure, god yeah, I have never even thought about that.
If horn sections have gone away from bands over the years,
because there's no way you can have a band that
plays that pays you know, four horn players, Well then
how about one hundred people with twenty you know, violin
players or whatever. Of course that doesn't work out money.
But I'm always talking about how, you know, the the
(05:53):
generations die off, and then there won't be anybody who
even remembers the past with a variety of things. I
always talk about customer service or whatever. Well, I'll bet
a lot of your wealthy, older patrons who cared about
classical music are dying off, and your next group of
rich people they don't care about classical music, so that's
not what they're giving money.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Too, right, Yeah, yeah, and so I guess you know,
my answer would be the same as any other government
policy that costs any money, if you are open about, hey,
we're dedicating this amount of the budget to this stuff
because we think it's important for these reasons. And then
you stand for election the next time, and and or
you hear from your constituents so much this is a
(06:34):
waste of taxpayer money.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
You got to stop.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I'd rather give it to the you know, the school
lunch program or whatever. That's a legitimate function of democracy.
I would like to see it continue because I think
it is the the highest form of musical creativity. It's
and it takes effort to get it, but it's it's
(07:00):
like the difference between a mud hut.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And that was a condescending comment that insinuates that if
people don't like classical music, they're just not trying hard
enough or unwilling to put in the effort. That's what
you were saying.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
No, I wasn't not at all. No.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
No, It's like no, no, And that was an insulting,
an idiotic thing to say.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Your turn, Who.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Do you like better Batch or beef ovene.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You are a subhuman and I would like to see
you plead Batch clearly.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
No, I'm a Beethoven guy. No.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
What I was trying to say is appreciating classical music
is a lot like appreciating a skyscraper. I was about
to say, classical music is to other forms of music
as like a woodshack is to a skyscraper, in that
a guy like me has to be like led along
by an architect or an engineer to understand how astonishing
(08:00):
skyscraper is.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
It's a tall building. You just pot one floor on
top of the other. You know, I would say, because
I don't really understand that stuff. If you get a
little tutorial in classical music and learn to appreciate it,
it's amazing, but it takes effort.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I'm with lou Reed one chords, All you need two
is okay? Three year into jazz.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I will.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I've always loved that saying, and I will also for
what it's worth. Many times when I'm feeling I need
to get my rock on, I'll throw on the Sex Pistols.
Never mind the Bullocks. It's one of my favorite albums.
But you know, should should it be supported by taxpayers.
It's up to the taxpayers, clearly.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Or I guess the bigger crime question is is it
a like a real cultural crime to have it go
away because it's not as popular anymore?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
You vote, Yeah, there's there's one point so obvious. I
almost skipped over it. But the recordings exist, and the
scores exist, and the video exists, and so it's not
as good as live. But somebody could, certainly if they
were running against me, Joe the orchestra fan running for
(09:17):
mayor versus Jack, this is a waste of money fan,
you could absolutely make the case that. Look, if you're
into Beethoven, there's exquisite surround sound four K videos of
the Berlin Philharmonic playing him ten years ago. That's good enough.
We need money for other stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And then the people go to the polls and they vote.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Man, I've never been in like an orchestra with like
many violins or anything like that, but I played in
you know, like high school band sort of orchestra, and man,
you get everybody playing a piece and everything like that live,
just sitting in it as the trumpet player. It's awesome. Yeah,
I mean the way just there's no speaker system that
can replicate that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, there's some really good spatial sound production, like surround sound,
where you get a sense of all, right, this sound
is coming from that direction, this one's coming from the
other one. It's difficult to simulate what it's like to
be in a symphony hall hearing that, but.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah. I don't think it moves the air the same
way the banging a drum, a timpany or a tuba.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Or whatever, but I don't know, right, And the there's
a certain breathlessness you get when they go full pianismo,
which means the quietest quiet, when you go from Beethoven's
full bomb bast down to everybody's afraid to breathe because
(10:45):
it's one violin playing something exquisitely soft. It's incredibly dramatic.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
But again, let the taxpayers aside.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, we'll see, yes, Michael.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Now I was going to share a very special classical
piece of music. Do you remember or this?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I know where this is going? Hit it? Yeah, a
fifth of Beethoven Disco Beethoven Man, when everything had to
be disco. I like this. Oh it's cool.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So I don't believe in snobbery. I don't like snobbery.
I try never to be a snob. I might appreciate
certain things more less than you do. I try not
to be a snob. Do me a favor. If you say, hey,
Joe's coming over, why don't we put on some classical music,
and you throw on the opening movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony,
(11:50):
I'm walking out. Okay, okay, it's the You like Zeppelin.
I like Zeppelin. You know Stairway to Heaven. Yes, I know,
Staring Heaven. Yeah, they're the best band ever. Stairway to
Heaven's a great song.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I know it is. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
You say you don't like to be a snob.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, no, I would never call anybody on it. I
would not because that would be being a dick.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, I guess that's it.
Hosts And Creators
Jack Armstrong
Joe Getty
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