May 6, 2025 • 11 mins
Today is National Teacher Day. Thank you, teachers!
Here's Bluegrass Institute President Jim Waters on the average total compensation packages for Kentucky teachers. There's a wide variance across the commonwealth.
Here's Bluegrass Institute President Jim Waters on the average total compensation packages for Kentucky teachers. There's a wide variance across the commonwealth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, I invited Jim Waters back to the studio.
(00:02):
I haven't been here in a while. Almost, good to
see you again. Good to be here, Terry from Bluegrass Institute.
But didn't I see a report recently that someone named
Caleb old Brown is now involved with the Bluegrass Institute.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yes, he's going to be starting next week with us.
So we welcome him back to the to the Bluegrass State.
And he was at this radio exactly right.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
He was a news guy here on this station. He
was the terrific employee. We really liked Caleb O.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
He's been with the Great Cato Institute for the last
eighteen years.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, and that's how long ago he was hanging around here.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
So and it's actually a return to the Bluegrass Institute
because he did our Kentucky Votes project several years ago,
if you remember, we we help people understand how their
legislators were voting. But now the Legislative Research Commission does that.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So all good tell people. The mission of the Bluegrass Institute.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's to offer free market solutions to Kentucky these greatest challenges,
so particularly in the areas of economics and education, and
to make government more transparent, more accountable. Amazing things happen
when you make government more transparent, usually costs less, and
it usually works better for the citizens.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I saw recently the National Education Association provided data on
various educator salaries and that your Bluegrass Institute had to
reply because THENEA said the Kentucky's one of the worst
in the nation, and so do you beg to differ?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well, yeah, And what their reports looked at was only salaries.
If you only look at salaries for teachers, that's not compensation.
Compensation for our teachers includes a lot more than just salaries.
It's primarily two pension benefits, health insurance benefits, life insurance benefits.
When you factor all that in, our teachers have improved
in compensation quite a bit. Fact since two thousand and six,
(02:00):
our report shows that overall teacher compensation has grown by
over ten percent when you adjust for inflation.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
That's nineteen years ago. Why did you go to the
year two thousand and six?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That was the first year that credible data was available,
And we like to base our policy solutions and analysis
on credible data. And so this report, which is on
our website at BIPs dot org you can find it today,
was posted and released you can find not only information
about teachers pay and compensation, but also how our students
(02:31):
have performed since during that same time period and how
much things have changed. So the report's really about showing
what's happening with teacher compensation when you add in insurance
and pensions, and it shows it's way more than what
the salaries are. And that's what the problem with the
National Union reports where they'll.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Talk about a total benefits package. I mean, our company
pumps that out to us all the time or quarterly
or whatever and tells us what we're going. But frankly,
if I go to the grocery store, they don't care
what my insurance benefits are. They care about what money
I have, whether I have enough to pay for the
carrots and beans I'm buying.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, but when you look at pension benefits in Kentucky,
this is what this gives teacher security. It gives them
a lot of things, and they have pretty generous benefits here,
so it gives them a lot of things that a
lot of folks in the private sector don't necessarily have.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, that's right, pensions are rarity, and what has the
state legislature done? Have they bolstered the pensions. I know
that's been in the point of contention.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
What's interesting here is if you take the average teacher's salary,
it's about fifty eight thousand dollars in Kentucky. Actually it's
up to sixty one thousand this year. But we looked
at through twenty four, two thousand and six through twenty four,
and if you add benefits, benefits have increased by sixty
one percent in adjusting for inflation during that same time,
(03:53):
just in eighteen years, from an average of fifteen thousand
dollars to over thirty five thousand dollars per teacher. That's
just benefits. And so when you put the average salary
together with the benefits, that's over ninety four thousand dollars
in the compensation package for teachers. And the interesting thing
is that our legislators what they can control, and they
(04:14):
don't control teacher salaries. Those decisions are made at the
local level. They're made by districts. Each district in Kentucky
has their own salaries schedule. Usually it's based on years
of experience and degrees. It doesn't have much to do
with performance in the classroom, but the things that legislators
can control have increased which are pensions, health insurance. And
(04:37):
you know a teacher, if they retire at fifty five
years old, that's ten years before they can go on medicare.
We provide benefits for them during that time period. So
and you multiply that times the thousands of beneficiaries and
we're doing pretty well in terms of benefit. And yeah,
you're right if you go to the grocery store, but
you've had to spend, if you've had to spend your
(04:58):
money on healthcare or on medicine, you might not have
the money. But because we provide a generous benefit, that's.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Just a different lens to look at. Look at this
whole thing. The NYA it says that the top salaries
around eighty thousand dollars for people and they're not talking
about their health.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
The top salaries, Now this is an average. We're talking
about averages in our report sokay, fifty eight thousand dollars
average salary in Kentucky. That means if you look at
Jefferson County, for example, their salary schedules are much different
than say Dawson Springs or a rural area like Breckinridge county.
So there's a difference there. But see those decisions, and
(05:33):
it's important to understand that those decisions are made at
the local level. That's why when there was all, you know,
the governor talking about he wanted to give teachers raises. Well,
that's not the governor's decision. Those decisions are made at
the local level. What legislators here did do was send
some lump some funding to local districts so they could
use those as needed. So if you needed a physics teacher,
(05:56):
or you needed something else, or you needed the capital project,
you could use those dollars as needed. Those decisions are
made at the local level. But those are averages. The
average benefit package in Kentucky for teachers is over thirty
five thousand dollars. That is pretty rich.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
A lot of people will also point to inflation and
say are there adjustments available? You know, the COLA is
a cost of living adjustment and that sort of thing
is does that apply to teachers? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
These are all inflation adjusted numbers. It's interesting if you
take away the inflation adjustment that the increase in benefit
packages was one hundred and thirty six percent during that time,
fifteen thousand to thirty five thousand, but if you apply
inflation adjusted numbers, it's sixty one percent, which is still
pretty significant. The other thing about this is the salaries
(06:44):
themselves are actually down a bit during that time, salaries
that actually declined by seven percent on average. But when
you put in the benefits and you add the benefits,
overall compensation is up almost eleven percent those that's an
eighteen percent swaying even inflation adjusted. And the other thing
is if you look at per pupil funding that trumps everything.
(07:08):
Per pupil funding in Kentucky is up by nearly forty
one percent. That's much more than the ten percent that
teachers compensation packages have increased. So the question is why
are we seeing improvement in our education.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
In the outcomes? Yeah, I've also noticed. I saw a
chart not long ago that said that the administration of
schools has seven times the number of human beings there
than they had thirty five years ago, and the population
count has only doubled of students. So why seven times
more people to run schools when you've only doubled the population.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, I want to give everybody a preview. Next Tuesday,
we're going to release another policy brief, and it's going
to deal with the increase in staffing. What percentage of
that is teachers and what are non teachers? And the
spoiler alert here, Kentucky as one of the worst teaching
the non teaching ratios in the country, and so that
(08:03):
means we've got a lot of people who are not teaching,
but they're on the payroll, they're getting benefits, and they're
not teaching. And so but then again, you look at
one in three of our kids can read proficientally do
math proficientally, and our lower income minority kids are doing
even worse than that. And the question is where's the
money going and what what what are we accomplishing with
(08:25):
all of this, these extra dollars and extra people in
the system.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
On another subject, you lost on the charter school's amendments.
It was amendment too. I think it was school choice amendments.
School choice amendment. The Lieutenant Governor Jaqueline Coleman was here.
She gave her side of the story. You were here
to give your side or no, someone else came in
to advocate anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I was here too.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I had both sides of that issue on the air.
Why do you think that was beaten so handily. Why
are people skittish afraid of charter schools?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, there were a lot of untruths and things thrown
out there by the governor. There was a lot of
fear mongering by the governor and by opponents of this,
saying it would destroy public education. And of course in
every state that has significant choice, it's done just the opposite.
It's actually improved their outcomes. But I think that message,
(09:16):
you know, I think there was some fear about that,
and then I think people, I think there were some
other reasons of people in terms of an amendment, didn't
necessarily vote for it. But you know, the upside of
this is that we had seven hundred and eight thousand
Kentuckians who did vote for school choice. And I mean
twenty years ago, twenty two years ago, when we started
the Bluegrass Institute, we couldn't get anybody to pay attention
(09:39):
to this issue, much less put it on the front page,
above the fold. The only thing that they put in
there then was spending, you know, more money for education. Now,
it was the debate of the year. So if the
cats out of the bag, it's going to be a
matter now of building on that. I think educating more people,
and we'll see what happens politically as well.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I think the Supreme Court looks like it's leaning your
way to the inference that you catch from various things
people are saying.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, also, we may have some federal legislation and school
choice and we'll see. We'll be ready, the Bluegrass Institute
will be ready to help people navigate that. And here
the Supreme Court in Kentucky still has to rule on
the charter school case. So even though that amendment failed,
you know, we may still get a win out of
our state Supreme Court which would allow public charter schools,
(10:28):
which are public schools of choice. One other quick thing
during the session the Kentucky Virtual Academy. The legislators did
a great thing in legislating against a regulation by the
state Board of Education that would have shut that school down.
And that school has eight hundred kids from Jefferson County.
They're attending this online virtual academy started by the Cloverport
(10:52):
Independent School District, one of the smallest, most rural districts
in Kentucky, and they have doubled in enrollment in the
first two years. They have three thousand kids. Now their
parents have that choice, So having having choice for parents
is extremely important.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Jim Waters Bluegrass Institute. What's the website.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Bipsips dot org.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
B I P p S. Takes care of it back
in a minute on news radio eight forty WHA s.
All right, I invited Jim Waters back to the studio.
(00:02):
I haven't been here in a while. Almost, good to
see you again. Good to be here, Terry from Bluegrass Institute.
But didn't I see a report recently that someone named
Caleb old Brown is now involved with the Bluegrass Institute.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yes, he's going to be starting next week with us.
So we welcome him back to the to the Bluegrass State.
And he was at this radio exactly right.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
He was a news guy here on this station. He
was the terrific employee. We really liked Caleb O.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
He's been with the Great Cato Institute for the last
eighteen years.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, and that's how long ago he was hanging around here.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
So and it's actually a return to the Bluegrass Institute
because he did our Kentucky Votes project several years ago,
if you remember, we we help people understand how their
legislators were voting. But now the Legislative Research Commission does that.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So all good tell people. The mission of the Bluegrass Institute.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's to offer free market solutions to Kentucky these greatest challenges,
so particularly in the areas of economics and education, and
to make government more transparent, more accountable. Amazing things happen
when you make government more transparent, usually costs less, and
it usually works better for the citizens.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I saw recently the National Education Association provided data on
various educator salaries and that your Bluegrass Institute had to
reply because THENEA said the Kentucky's one of the worst
in the nation, and so do you beg to differ?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well, yeah, And what their reports looked at was only salaries.
If you only look at salaries for teachers, that's not compensation.
Compensation for our teachers includes a lot more than just salaries.
It's primarily two pension benefits, health insurance benefits, life insurance benefits.
When you factor all that in, our teachers have improved
in compensation quite a bit. Fact since two thousand and six,
(02:00):
our report shows that overall teacher compensation has grown by
over ten percent when you adjust for inflation.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
That's nineteen years ago. Why did you go to the
year two thousand and six?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That was the first year that credible data was available,
And we like to base our policy solutions and analysis
on credible data. And so this report, which is on
our website at BIPs dot org you can find it today,
was posted and released you can find not only information
about teachers pay and compensation, but also how our students
(02:31):
have performed since during that same time period and how
much things have changed. So the report's really about showing
what's happening with teacher compensation when you add in insurance
and pensions, and it shows it's way more than what
the salaries are. And that's what the problem with the
National Union reports where they'll.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Talk about a total benefits package. I mean, our company
pumps that out to us all the time or quarterly
or whatever and tells us what we're going. But frankly,
if I go to the grocery store, they don't care
what my insurance benefits are. They care about what money
I have, whether I have enough to pay for the
carrots and beans I'm buying.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, but when you look at pension benefits in Kentucky,
this is what this gives teacher security. It gives them
a lot of things, and they have pretty generous benefits here,
so it gives them a lot of things that a
lot of folks in the private sector don't necessarily have.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, that's right, pensions are rarity, and what has the
state legislature done? Have they bolstered the pensions. I know
that's been in the point of contention.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
What's interesting here is if you take the average teacher's salary,
it's about fifty eight thousand dollars in Kentucky. Actually it's
up to sixty one thousand this year. But we looked
at through twenty four, two thousand and six through twenty four,
and if you add benefits, benefits have increased by sixty
one percent in adjusting for inflation during that same time,
(03:53):
just in eighteen years, from an average of fifteen thousand
dollars to over thirty five thousand dollars per teacher. That's
just benefits. And so when you put the average salary
together with the benefits, that's over ninety four thousand dollars
in the compensation package for teachers. And the interesting thing
is that our legislators what they can control, and they
(04:14):
don't control teacher salaries. Those decisions are made at the
local level. They're made by districts. Each district in Kentucky
has their own salaries schedule. Usually it's based on years
of experience and degrees. It doesn't have much to do
with performance in the classroom, but the things that legislators
can control have increased which are pensions, health insurance. And
(04:37):
you know a teacher, if they retire at fifty five
years old, that's ten years before they can go on medicare.
We provide benefits for them during that time period. So
and you multiply that times the thousands of beneficiaries and
we're doing pretty well in terms of benefit. And yeah,
you're right if you go to the grocery store, but
you've had to spend, if you've had to spend your
(04:58):
money on healthcare or on medicine, you might not have
the money. But because we provide a generous benefit, that's.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Just a different lens to look at. Look at this
whole thing. The NYA it says that the top salaries
around eighty thousand dollars for people and they're not talking
about their health.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
The top salaries, Now this is an average. We're talking
about averages in our report sokay, fifty eight thousand dollars
average salary in Kentucky. That means if you look at
Jefferson County, for example, their salary schedules are much different
than say Dawson Springs or a rural area like Breckinridge county.
So there's a difference there. But see those decisions, and
(05:33):
it's important to understand that those decisions are made at
the local level. That's why when there was all, you know,
the governor talking about he wanted to give teachers raises. Well,
that's not the governor's decision. Those decisions are made at
the local level. What legislators here did do was send
some lump some funding to local districts so they could
use those as needed. So if you needed a physics teacher,
(05:56):
or you needed something else, or you needed the capital project,
you could use those dollars as needed. Those decisions are
made at the local level. But those are averages. The
average benefit package in Kentucky for teachers is over thirty
five thousand dollars. That is pretty rich.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
A lot of people will also point to inflation and
say are there adjustments available? You know, the COLA is
a cost of living adjustment and that sort of thing
is does that apply to teachers? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
These are all inflation adjusted numbers. It's interesting if you
take away the inflation adjustment that the increase in benefit
packages was one hundred and thirty six percent during that time,
fifteen thousand to thirty five thousand, but if you apply
inflation adjusted numbers, it's sixty one percent, which is still
pretty significant. The other thing about this is the salaries
(06:44):
themselves are actually down a bit during that time, salaries
that actually declined by seven percent on average. But when
you put in the benefits and you add the benefits,
overall compensation is up almost eleven percent those that's an
eighteen percent swaying even inflation adjusted. And the other thing
is if you look at per pupil funding that trumps everything.
(07:08):
Per pupil funding in Kentucky is up by nearly forty
one percent. That's much more than the ten percent that
teachers compensation packages have increased. So the question is why
are we seeing improvement in our education.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
In the outcomes? Yeah, I've also noticed. I saw a
chart not long ago that said that the administration of
schools has seven times the number of human beings there
than they had thirty five years ago, and the population
count has only doubled of students. So why seven times
more people to run schools when you've only doubled the population.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, I want to give everybody a preview. Next Tuesday,
we're going to release another policy brief, and it's going
to deal with the increase in staffing. What percentage of
that is teachers and what are non teachers? And the
spoiler alert here, Kentucky as one of the worst teaching
the non teaching ratios in the country, and so that
(08:03):
means we've got a lot of people who are not teaching,
but they're on the payroll, they're getting benefits, and they're
not teaching. And so but then again, you look at
one in three of our kids can read proficientally do
math proficientally, and our lower income minority kids are doing
even worse than that. And the question is where's the
money going and what what what are we accomplishing with
(08:25):
all of this, these extra dollars and extra people in
the system.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
On another subject, you lost on the charter school's amendments.
It was amendment too. I think it was school choice amendments.
School choice amendment. The Lieutenant Governor Jaqueline Coleman was here.
She gave her side of the story. You were here
to give your side or no, someone else came in
to advocate anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I was here too.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I had both sides of that issue on the air.
Why do you think that was beaten so handily. Why
are people skittish afraid of charter schools?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, there were a lot of untruths and things thrown
out there by the governor. There was a lot of
fear mongering by the governor and by opponents of this,
saying it would destroy public education. And of course in
every state that has significant choice, it's done just the opposite.
It's actually improved their outcomes. But I think that message,
(09:16):
you know, I think there was some fear about that,
and then I think people, I think there were some
other reasons of people in terms of an amendment, didn't
necessarily vote for it. But you know, the upside of
this is that we had seven hundred and eight thousand
Kentuckians who did vote for school choice. And I mean
twenty years ago, twenty two years ago, when we started
the Bluegrass Institute, we couldn't get anybody to pay attention
(09:39):
to this issue, much less put it on the front page,
above the fold. The only thing that they put in
there then was spending, you know, more money for education. Now,
it was the debate of the year. So if the
cats out of the bag, it's going to be a
matter now of building on that. I think educating more people,
and we'll see what happens politically as well.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I think the Supreme Court looks like it's leaning your
way to the inference that you catch from various things
people are saying.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, also, we may have some federal legislation and school
choice and we'll see. We'll be ready, the Bluegrass Institute
will be ready to help people navigate that. And here
the Supreme Court in Kentucky still has to rule on
the charter school case. So even though that amendment failed,
you know, we may still get a win out of
our state Supreme Court which would allow public charter schools,
(10:28):
which are public schools of choice. One other quick thing
during the session the Kentucky Virtual Academy. The legislators did
a great thing in legislating against a regulation by the
state Board of Education that would have shut that school down.
And that school has eight hundred kids from Jefferson County.
They're attending this online virtual academy started by the Cloverport
(10:52):
Independent School District, one of the smallest, most rural districts
in Kentucky, and they have doubled in enrollment in the
first two years. They have three thousand kids. Now their
parents have that choice, So having having choice for parents
is extremely important.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Jim Waters Bluegrass Institute. What's the website.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Bipsips dot org.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
B I P p S. Takes care of it back
in a minute on news radio eight forty WHA s.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.