November 10, 2025 • 17 mins
Scott talks with attorney Steve Goodin about the Ruby restaurant Group attempting to vacate their downtown offices citing "security concerns". Can the Ruby's get out of the lease. Scott and Steve debate.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you want to be an American? I do not remember
the last time we had significant snowfall this early in November,
but we're dealing with it. We are here, Chuck Abram
is here. He's on his eighty fifth cup of coffee.
And it's pretty to look at out the window, but
not so much when you're sitting in traffic with a
lot of people are this morning. Keep you updated on
the progress here is. The storm should be done like
(00:23):
around noon or so. We'll see in the meantime. I
hope to keep you informed, entertained, and I don't know,
thought drunk, as the case may be. This is interesting
to start the day to day while the government shutdown
looks to be winding down. We'll get to that a
little bit later on, of course, we'll see. I'll believe
it when I see it. Like you this locally, though,
this is a case and the potential are to destroy
(00:43):
development downtown and undue investment in a couple areas of
downtown related to crime. Not to rehash that, but it
ties again. There's a lawsuit that's going on right now
in Cincinnati. Common inquired a great job laying this thing
out yesterday. Jeff Ruby Colner Entertainment. As you know, their
original location, the old Art Deco place on seven hundred
Wallace Street. When they moved to the new digs across
(01:04):
from Fountain Square, they turned that into the Lempeka Event
Center and they're also their corporate headquarters. And I had
an event there, a wedding not too long ago. It
was absolutely stunning. That's why I was shocked to learn
they're pulling out. So Ruby vacated the corporate offices and
that space just a few weeks ago, and the original
leases were set to expire in twenty twenty eight and
(01:25):
twenty thirty for the offices and restaurants respectively. And the
concern was over a safety downtown safety and basic security
measures were not being fulfilled allegedly by town properties, including
the security of entrances and visitor check ins and on
site security and building safety protocols. And there were bullets
and windows and unarmed robbery across the street and all
(01:46):
this noise. And they said, okay, we're out because of
the crime. And if you think about it, if the
court sides with the Rubia on this one, this is
really going to overturn. The apple Cart joined the show
this morning is longtime attorney and student. All this stuff is.
Steve Gooden joined the show this morning on seven hundred
wlw are you Steve?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm snowed in absolutely, Scott?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
How are you well that whole that whole inch of
snow has got you got your sheltered in place? Huh?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I'm overreacting purposefully to this today.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yes, shelter in place orders for the inch of snow. Yeah,
but you know it's pretty now unless you're not sitting
in it. I suppose in traffic right now than your
anger as hell, I get it.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Before we get to this, though, you lost your attempt
to win that council seat and voters choosing to keep
leadership all democratic in the city. Is it over for
balanced government? Do you think? You know?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I think it is for the time being, Scot.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I mean you know, I mean, look, we we we
had a bizarre scenario in this, you know, where we
had some polling data that showed, you know, a lot
of the challenges myself included had better name i'd than
the folks who ended up winning, which is a weird circumstance.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
We knew on the issues, you.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Know, we were right there, but at the end of
the day, it's slate voting.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
You have low.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Turnout and people who are voting one hundred percent Democrat
one hundred percent Republican. And and that's just kind of
how it is at the moment. Everything is about national politics.
Local issues don't really seem to be breaking through. All
of the messaging that we saw from the Democratic Council
(03:21):
members and the mayor was all about Donald Trump and
MAGA and so forth. And basically the message was if
you don't return a one hundred percent Democratic council, you know,
Donald Trump will win in Cincinnati, which is of course,
you know, absurd.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
You know, they ran on.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Things like snap benefits and things that were national issues
over which city hall had no control.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's kind of like what happened in New York with Mondami.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I mean, you know a lot of what he you know,
he pushed or things that are you know, whether you
agree or disagree with the policies he's presenting, they're things
that are well outside his control jurisdictionally, i legally, as
a as a mayor. I mean, you know, he's promising
things that only the federal and state government can deliver
by law. So you know it look, it's it's predictable.
(04:06):
You know, we kind of saw what was happening a
few days out. You know, it's a it's a little
bit of a better pill. Frankly, when you know that
on the issues and in terms of who you are,
you know, you know it's the right. We did the
right thing and we think by raising those issues, we
absolutely did the right thing and we certainly moved some
things in terms of the issues along, I think at
(04:28):
city Hall.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So no regrets. But uh boy, the snow is pretty.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Does Scott's The snow got to Mars that election day,
we probably have real problems the after effect.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Even the snow melts, it still scares people. Yeah, I
I you know, we I prefer a divided government. I
preferred divide of government Columbus to be quite honestly, it's
not about the GOP winning everything. It's about restoring some
sanity in our government. So hopefully better days are ahead.
It doesn't look like it right now.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Though.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Let's segue to the case at hand. If the court
sides with the Ruby in this town proper, could that
establish a precedent for commercial real estate like especially in
urban areas, And then it becomes Hey, listen, crime's killing
me right now. I'm seeing a reduction in business, or
I feel threatened, or maybe I just want to get
out of the lease. I can claim inadequate security and
get out of this thing. That that would be devastating
(05:17):
for development, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It sure would?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And frankly, I don't know what a court's going to
make of what the Ruby group is claiming here.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, they really.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And I have attacked Town Properties in their lawsuits saying, look,
we told you we were having issues here. We had
an employee who got robbed. We had a bullet, you know, fired,
you know, a stray bullet apparently, but still the idea
that there are straight bullets in the heart of downtown
business district is a horrifying thing. But one of our
windows got hit. We kept digging. We've had car break
(05:50):
ins in the lot next door with our employees, and
we've asked for beefed up security measures. You didn't provide them,
So therefore we should get out of the last four
to five of our lease. Town Properties actually has filed
a countersuit, including a claim for defamation based upon some
of the statements. Jeff Ruby's daughter Brittany Ruby Miller made
(06:11):
in a press release or a press conference about the
whole situation in which they basically said, look, you're you
know you're impugning us falsely, and you know you're saying
things about our security and about our building that just
aren't true. There's lawsuits going both ways right now. It's
kind of hard to tell from what we know so far,
(06:32):
you know who is right or who is wrong, or
whether it's some mixture. Also, what Town Property says, which
is very interesting, is they're basically saying, look, you your
events base just wasn't doing well, the business model isn't good,
and they've all but accused the Ruby Group of using
the safety concerns to get out of their lease early.
So this one's really ugly.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But you're right.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
If indeed a court rules with the Ruby Group, you
can you can start using and business owners can start
using safety protocols as a means to breach a lease prematurely.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You know that that is going to.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Be open season downtown for people who are whose businesses
are not doing well in part because of the crime.
And I will say this, I've heard from some of
my friends who are who own smaller restaurants and barbershops
and a hair salon. Some of them were down thirty
to forty percent since this rash of shooting, yeah, happened,
particularly the group on the grouping of shootings there about
(07:28):
three weeks ago on Fountain Square. So it is a
very tough time. It's not only is it not safe
at certain times, it's it's it's the perception is even worse.
So yeah, but no, you're absolutely right. If the Common
Police Court does side with Ruby, this is going to
be a could lead to an exodus of people downtown.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, And you know, it's not to say, I know
some people believe that, you know, Mexico starts south of
Red Bank Road. It's not true at all. Are plenty
of areas since an editor that are safe. It's just
a couple of neighborhoods in particular or in certain times
a day or not, and then those are exacerbated. We
talk about it, people start to fear it and it
becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Is unfortunate. But you know,
(08:08):
the way this whole thing has been handled, which is
why you ran and many others ran too, is to
reform how crime is handled in the City of Cincinnati.
And yeah, I kind of get what Ruby's doing here.
Maybe the model wasn't working because of that though, right,
because people aren't coming downtown because of what we're talking about,
so indirectly it's crime. I wonder though, too, if this
were successful, would that could this spill over to the
residential least game as well, and people are afraid of
(08:32):
I don't know, I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna break my
lease with my apartment and my condo because I don't
feel safe anymore. I would see that as an extension
here too, and then the wheels really fall off. But
in reality, Ruby says they made repeated police or security measures.
What I guess what evans would they need to prove
the town is negligent there? And outside of town's control,
(08:52):
they don't run, you know, the police department of the
City of Cincinnati. So what control really does a landlord have?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Well, and that's and I think that's part of their
legal problem, you know, factually speaking, you know, if if
the security measures aren't built explicitly into the lease, that's
you know, town property will have a pretty good defense there.
And again we haven't seen the lease the lease. These
commercial leases tend to be you know, a very very detailed,
you know, one hundred pages long and so forth. So
(09:21):
I would be a little bit surprised, if, you know,
if there's something in the lease that would really give
them these the ability to demand these security protocols that
go above and beyond.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And again, you know, the Ruby folks have had their
headquarters there and.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Have been in that building for decades so and things
have really, you know, really changed there over the years.
I mean, you beck in the early two thousands and
we had an uptake in violence like this before you know,
they were able to weather that and that was the
Town Properties building then. So I think that will come
very much into play, how the last time we had
(09:57):
an issue like this, but also what's really happening now
is unprecedented. You know, the city officials still want to
argue about the numbers, whether the crime is up or
down overall, but we know in the city but we
know it's up. It is up, particularly in the downtown
business area district, It is up in over the Rhine,
and is particularly up in northern over the Rhine. And
(10:18):
we also know the quality, not just the quality but
the quality of the incidents that have been occurring, have
been horrifying, and we've had shootings during business hours, you know,
including the one on White in front of the Ruby
restaurant at the Foundry was at you know, you know,
one was at seven pm, one was at five to
eighteen pm in front of the Federal Courthouse.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So you know, it's not like you.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Know, when I was a prosecutor twenty years ago there
were horrible shootings downtown with they tended to happen at
two three in the morning. We're talking people leaving their
offices and hearing gunfire. So it's a it's qualitatively different,
and I think that's something at court we'll have to
kind of grapple with somehow. No question from from the
record they submitted that with the lawsuit that the Ruby
(11:03):
folks were asking for additional security, No question that they
had employees who were hassled, robbed and just generally had
the cars broken into and so forth. But you know,
I could also see a court very much saying, hey,
it's not explicitly built into the least that you get
this additional security and I'm sorry you're on your own,
(11:24):
and and that the town properties folks just have no
real control over over the.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Crime Steve Good and the filing Ruby v. Tom Properties.
Ruby said they spent two hundred thousand dollars annually on
private security. Is that to help hurt that case?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
It's sort of it cuts both ways. I mean it also,
you know, it shows that they were at number one.
I mean, it shows actually that that they were doing that,
and I have no doubt. I mean I was just
not long ago at the downtown Ruby's restaurant, the main one,
and you know they had armed security out front, you know,
because you know they've apparently had some issues also at
their flagship rest in terms of violence and muggings and
(12:02):
employees being handled and so forth. But the flip side
would be like, you know, I could see count Properties
turning that around very quickly and saying, well, you've known
about these security issues for a while. You've been providing
security outside the lease on all your properties and and
frankly based upon what Jeff Ruby, Jeff Ruby Church is
for a stake, apparently they're still turning the profits.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So you know, if I was down there, it was
not a blow bill.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So you know, I'm gonna have the I'm gonna have
the Chris Collins worth top with litigation.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Thank you to a new Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,
you're the two hundred thousand security investment.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
It suggests that Ruby's had responsibility in this to some
degree too as well. And also from what I read,
was there an evidence was there any evidence that they
presented any request to uh notice a default or before
they left the premises, attempt to cure I think is
the term, in order to make sure that they asked
and said, hey, look, can you take care of the stuff,
(13:05):
and they weren't responded to. But I didn't see any
of that in here, did you?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I did not.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
And look, it's not unusual in a lawsuit like this,
you know, for those kinds of things to be provided
in discovery if the case goes along, but.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You know it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
It looks like this all came together relatively quickly, you know,
over the course of just a few weeks. Really, if
if I'm reading it correctly, it sounds like the security
concerns have been around for well over a year, but
the negotiations in the back and forth did seem to
be in a pretty tight timeframe. So no, I did
not see that, and I think those are all issues.
If that did not occur. Those are things that will
(13:40):
go into Town Properties favor from a legal standpoint, so
you know, we'll have to wait and see on that.
But no, there really isn't much of a showing that
they had a significant negotiation here over that, which is
and it's it's very typical in these large commercial leases
that you don't just you're not able just to pull out.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You know, you have to try to.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know, you have to at least give the landlord
a chance to fix things, which is the old you know,
caure provisions as they call it. So you know, well
we'll see what's there. But yeah, the lawsuit is pretty
thin on that in that department.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And not only that too. This has also reflected the
broader issues downtown is homelessness and street crime and the
changing nature of downtown alike as well, outside of the
scope of anyone except for government.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, that's and that's right. I think you're going to
hear a lot from town Properties on that on that
specific point. I mean, I mean, we know that downtown.
I mean, look, this is something not to shift back
into campaign mode. I'm trying to act like that never happened.
But we're gonna act like, uh, but the I mean,
we know the police, the sayd Tek Police Department is understaffed.
We know the understaffing is particularly fell downtown.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
It's it's it's you know, it's it's.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Very, very difficult to have true beat policing with the
staffing levels the police department has at the moment.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I mean, I mean we know that.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
You know, they have a compliment that was set in
two thousand and five, which was a radically different city
at that point in time in terms of attractions, and
I mean there was no developed over the Rhine, then
there was no TQL Stadium, then no Brady Center, then
fifteen thousand, by any estimate, fewer residents than So the
idea that we're going to take a compliment set from
(15:24):
that time frame in terms of the police department, and
it's two hundred short from that number and actually expect
to have beat policing downtown, the officers out of their
cars walking, you know, it's just not mathematically possible. The
officers we have now are by and large, you know,
dedicated to responding to emergency calls.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
That's all we have.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And if you see an officer out on the street
on Government Square, Fountain Square. Chances are they're being paid
overtime or it's a private detail for a restaurant like
and it's really not a good way to do business.
And that's where we slip into what I call this
kind of third world vibe, where it's like, if you're
a business that can afford to hire an off duty
police officer, you're in great shape.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
If you're a small business that doesn't.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Have that kind of Jeff Ruby budget, then you're in
a bad spot. And that is that is not the
way we are supposed to do things, and that's not
a sign of a healthy city.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
No only that, I mean if landlords become liable for
crime in and around the building in the city, imagine
what insurance rates would do. And there'd be properties that
are uninsurable and then the landlord has to hire security.
I'd be good lord. The rent down town would be
absolutely ridiculous. So I kind of see which way the
Court's going to lean here, But you never know he
is Steve good an attorney at law, break and hold
this whole thing down. When the quite honestly, development and
(16:40):
the progress Cincinnati's made in the last twenty plus years
is in jeopardy with the decision in this case and
whenever that comes on, but they'll probably settle as they
often do, and life will go on. He is Steve
Good and thanks again to joining body. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Have a great one anytime, Scott, Take care, take care.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
We've got to get to a news update here in
the very latest on the roadways and can you imagine
this kind of mess out there? Chuck will have that
for you, the forecast when the snow ends, and more
to follow. Slowey seven hundred WDLWT
Do you want to be an American? I do not remember
the last time we had significant snowfall this early in November,
but we're dealing with it. We are here, Chuck Abram
is here. He's on his eighty fifth cup of coffee.
And it's pretty to look at out the window, but
not so much when you're sitting in traffic with a
lot of people are this morning. Keep you updated on
the progress here is. The storm should be done like
(00:23):
around noon or so. We'll see in the meantime. I
hope to keep you informed, entertained, and I don't know,
thought drunk, as the case may be. This is interesting
to start the day to day while the government shutdown
looks to be winding down. We'll get to that a
little bit later on, of course, we'll see. I'll believe
it when I see it. Like you this locally, though,
this is a case and the potential are to destroy
(00:43):
development downtown and undue investment in a couple areas of
downtown related to crime. Not to rehash that, but it
ties again. There's a lawsuit that's going on right now
in Cincinnati. Common inquired a great job laying this thing
out yesterday. Jeff Ruby Colner Entertainment. As you know, their
original location, the old Art Deco place on seven hundred
Wallace Street. When they moved to the new digs across
(01:04):
from Fountain Square, they turned that into the Lempeka Event
Center and they're also their corporate headquarters. And I had
an event there, a wedding not too long ago. It
was absolutely stunning. That's why I was shocked to learn
they're pulling out. So Ruby vacated the corporate offices and
that space just a few weeks ago, and the original
leases were set to expire in twenty twenty eight and
(01:25):
twenty thirty for the offices and restaurants respectively. And the
concern was over a safety downtown safety and basic security
measures were not being fulfilled allegedly by town properties, including
the security of entrances and visitor check ins and on
site security and building safety protocols. And there were bullets
and windows and unarmed robbery across the street and all
(01:46):
this noise. And they said, okay, we're out because of
the crime. And if you think about it, if the
court sides with the Rubia on this one, this is
really going to overturn. The apple Cart joined the show
this morning is longtime attorney and student. All this stuff is.
Steve Gooden joined the show this morning on seven hundred
wlw are you Steve?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm snowed in absolutely, Scott?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
How are you well that whole that whole inch of
snow has got you got your sheltered in place? Huh?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I'm overreacting purposefully to this today.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yes, shelter in place orders for the inch of snow. Yeah,
but you know it's pretty now unless you're not sitting
in it. I suppose in traffic right now than your
anger as hell, I get it.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Before we get to this, though, you lost your attempt
to win that council seat and voters choosing to keep
leadership all democratic in the city. Is it over for
balanced government? Do you think? You know?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I think it is for the time being, Scot.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I mean you know, I mean, look, we we we
had a bizarre scenario in this, you know, where we
had some polling data that showed, you know, a lot
of the challenges myself included had better name i'd than
the folks who ended up winning, which is a weird circumstance.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
We knew on the issues, you.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Know, we were right there, but at the end of
the day, it's slate voting.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
You have low.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Turnout and people who are voting one hundred percent Democrat
one hundred percent Republican. And and that's just kind of
how it is at the moment. Everything is about national politics.
Local issues don't really seem to be breaking through. All
of the messaging that we saw from the Democratic Council
(03:21):
members and the mayor was all about Donald Trump and
MAGA and so forth. And basically the message was if
you don't return a one hundred percent Democratic council, you know,
Donald Trump will win in Cincinnati, which is of course,
you know, absurd.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
You know, they ran on.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Things like snap benefits and things that were national issues
over which city hall had no control.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's kind of like what happened in New York with Mondami.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I mean, you know a lot of what he you know,
he pushed or things that are you know, whether you
agree or disagree with the policies he's presenting, they're things
that are well outside his control jurisdictionally, i legally, as
a as a mayor. I mean, you know, he's promising
things that only the federal and state government can deliver
by law. So you know it look, it's it's predictable.
(04:06):
You know, we kind of saw what was happening a
few days out. You know, it's a it's a little
bit of a better pill. Frankly, when you know that
on the issues and in terms of who you are,
you know, you know it's the right. We did the
right thing and we think by raising those issues, we
absolutely did the right thing and we certainly moved some
things in terms of the issues along, I think at
(04:28):
city Hall.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So no regrets. But uh boy, the snow is pretty.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Does Scott's The snow got to Mars that election day,
we probably have real problems the after effect.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Even the snow melts, it still scares people. Yeah, I
I you know, we I prefer a divided government. I
preferred divide of government Columbus to be quite honestly, it's
not about the GOP winning everything. It's about restoring some
sanity in our government. So hopefully better days are ahead.
It doesn't look like it right now.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Though.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Let's segue to the case at hand. If the court
sides with the Ruby in this town proper, could that
establish a precedent for commercial real estate like especially in
urban areas, And then it becomes Hey, listen, crime's killing
me right now. I'm seeing a reduction in business, or
I feel threatened, or maybe I just want to get
out of the lease. I can claim inadequate security and
get out of this thing. That that would be devastating
(05:17):
for development, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It sure would?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And frankly, I don't know what a court's going to
make of what the Ruby group is claiming here.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, they really.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And I have attacked Town Properties in their lawsuits saying, look,
we told you we were having issues here. We had
an employee who got robbed. We had a bullet, you know, fired,
you know, a stray bullet apparently, but still the idea
that there are straight bullets in the heart of downtown
business district is a horrifying thing. But one of our
windows got hit. We kept digging. We've had car break
(05:50):
ins in the lot next door with our employees, and
we've asked for beefed up security measures. You didn't provide them,
So therefore we should get out of the last four
to five of our lease. Town Properties actually has filed
a countersuit, including a claim for defamation based upon some
of the statements. Jeff Ruby's daughter Brittany Ruby Miller made
(06:11):
in a press release or a press conference about the
whole situation in which they basically said, look, you're you
know you're impugning us falsely, and you know you're saying
things about our security and about our building that just
aren't true. There's lawsuits going both ways right now. It's
kind of hard to tell from what we know so far,
(06:32):
you know who is right or who is wrong, or
whether it's some mixture. Also, what Town Property says, which
is very interesting, is they're basically saying, look, you your
events base just wasn't doing well, the business model isn't good,
and they've all but accused the Ruby Group of using
the safety concerns to get out of their lease early.
So this one's really ugly.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But you're right.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
If indeed a court rules with the Ruby Group, you
can you can start using and business owners can start
using safety protocols as a means to breach a lease prematurely.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You know that that is going to.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Be open season downtown for people who are whose businesses
are not doing well in part because of the crime.
And I will say this, I've heard from some of
my friends who are who own smaller restaurants and barbershops
and a hair salon. Some of them were down thirty
to forty percent since this rash of shooting, yeah, happened,
particularly the group on the grouping of shootings there about
(07:28):
three weeks ago on Fountain Square. So it is a
very tough time. It's not only is it not safe
at certain times, it's it's it's the perception is even worse.
So yeah, but no, you're absolutely right. If the Common
Police Court does side with Ruby, this is going to
be a could lead to an exodus of people downtown.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, And you know, it's not to say, I know
some people believe that, you know, Mexico starts south of
Red Bank Road. It's not true at all. Are plenty
of areas since an editor that are safe. It's just
a couple of neighborhoods in particular or in certain times
a day or not, and then those are exacerbated. We
talk about it, people start to fear it and it
becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Is unfortunate. But you know,
(08:08):
the way this whole thing has been handled, which is
why you ran and many others ran too, is to
reform how crime is handled in the City of Cincinnati.
And yeah, I kind of get what Ruby's doing here.
Maybe the model wasn't working because of that though, right,
because people aren't coming downtown because of what we're talking about,
so indirectly it's crime. I wonder though, too, if this
were successful, would that could this spill over to the
residential least game as well, and people are afraid of
(08:32):
I don't know, I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna break my
lease with my apartment and my condo because I don't
feel safe anymore. I would see that as an extension
here too, and then the wheels really fall off. But
in reality, Ruby says they made repeated police or security measures.
What I guess what evans would they need to prove
the town is negligent there? And outside of town's control,
(08:52):
they don't run, you know, the police department of the
City of Cincinnati. So what control really does a landlord have?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Well, and that's and I think that's part of their
legal problem, you know, factually speaking, you know, if if
the security measures aren't built explicitly into the lease, that's
you know, town property will have a pretty good defense there.
And again we haven't seen the lease the lease. These
commercial leases tend to be you know, a very very detailed,
you know, one hundred pages long and so forth. So
(09:21):
I would be a little bit surprised, if, you know,
if there's something in the lease that would really give
them these the ability to demand these security protocols that
go above and beyond.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And again, you know, the Ruby folks have had their
headquarters there and.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Have been in that building for decades so and things
have really, you know, really changed there over the years.
I mean, you beck in the early two thousands and
we had an uptake in violence like this before you know,
they were able to weather that and that was the
Town Properties building then. So I think that will come
very much into play, how the last time we had
(09:57):
an issue like this, but also what's really happening now
is unprecedented. You know, the city officials still want to
argue about the numbers, whether the crime is up or
down overall, but we know in the city but we
know it's up. It is up, particularly in the downtown
business area district, It is up in over the Rhine,
and is particularly up in northern over the Rhine. And
(10:18):
we also know the quality, not just the quality but
the quality of the incidents that have been occurring, have
been horrifying, and we've had shootings during business hours, you know,
including the one on White in front of the Ruby
restaurant at the Foundry was at you know, you know,
one was at seven pm, one was at five to
eighteen pm in front of the Federal Courthouse.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So you know, it's not like you.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Know, when I was a prosecutor twenty years ago there
were horrible shootings downtown with they tended to happen at
two three in the morning. We're talking people leaving their
offices and hearing gunfire. So it's a it's qualitatively different,
and I think that's something at court we'll have to
kind of grapple with somehow. No question from from the
record they submitted that with the lawsuit that the Ruby
(11:03):
folks were asking for additional security, No question that they
had employees who were hassled, robbed and just generally had
the cars broken into and so forth. But you know,
I could also see a court very much saying, hey,
it's not explicitly built into the least that you get
this additional security and I'm sorry you're on your own,
(11:24):
and and that the town properties folks just have no
real control over over the.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Crime Steve Good and the filing Ruby v. Tom Properties.
Ruby said they spent two hundred thousand dollars annually on
private security. Is that to help hurt that case?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
It's sort of it cuts both ways. I mean it also,
you know, it shows that they were at number one.
I mean, it shows actually that that they were doing that,
and I have no doubt. I mean I was just
not long ago at the downtown Ruby's restaurant, the main one,
and you know they had armed security out front, you know,
because you know they've apparently had some issues also at
their flagship rest in terms of violence and muggings and
(12:02):
employees being handled and so forth. But the flip side
would be like, you know, I could see count Properties
turning that around very quickly and saying, well, you've known
about these security issues for a while. You've been providing
security outside the lease on all your properties and and
frankly based upon what Jeff Ruby, Jeff Ruby Church is
for a stake, apparently they're still turning the profits.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So you know, if I was down there, it was
not a blow bill.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So you know, I'm gonna have the I'm gonna have
the Chris Collins worth top with litigation.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Thank you to a new Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,
you're the two hundred thousand security investment.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
It suggests that Ruby's had responsibility in this to some
degree too as well. And also from what I read,
was there an evidence was there any evidence that they
presented any request to uh notice a default or before
they left the premises, attempt to cure I think is
the term, in order to make sure that they asked
and said, hey, look, can you take care of the stuff,
(13:05):
and they weren't responded to. But I didn't see any
of that in here, did you?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I did not.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
And look, it's not unusual in a lawsuit like this,
you know, for those kinds of things to be provided
in discovery if the case goes along, but.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You know it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
It looks like this all came together relatively quickly, you know,
over the course of just a few weeks. Really, if
if I'm reading it correctly, it sounds like the security
concerns have been around for well over a year, but
the negotiations in the back and forth did seem to
be in a pretty tight timeframe. So no, I did
not see that, and I think those are all issues.
If that did not occur. Those are things that will
(13:40):
go into Town Properties favor from a legal standpoint, so
you know, we'll have to wait and see on that.
But no, there really isn't much of a showing that
they had a significant negotiation here over that, which is
and it's it's very typical in these large commercial leases
that you don't just you're not able just to pull out.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You know, you have to try to.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know, you have to at least give the landlord
a chance to fix things, which is the old you know,
caure provisions as they call it. So you know, well
we'll see what's there. But yeah, the lawsuit is pretty
thin on that in that department.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And not only that too. This has also reflected the
broader issues downtown is homelessness and street crime and the
changing nature of downtown alike as well, outside of the
scope of anyone except for government.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, that's and that's right. I think you're going to
hear a lot from town Properties on that on that
specific point. I mean, I mean, we know that downtown.
I mean, look, this is something not to shift back
into campaign mode. I'm trying to act like that never happened.
But we're gonna act like, uh, but the I mean,
we know the police, the sayd Tek Police Department is understaffed.
We know the understaffing is particularly fell downtown.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
It's it's it's you know, it's it's.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Very, very difficult to have true beat policing with the
staffing levels the police department has at the moment.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I mean, I mean we know that.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
You know, they have a compliment that was set in
two thousand and five, which was a radically different city
at that point in time in terms of attractions, and
I mean there was no developed over the Rhine, then
there was no TQL Stadium, then no Brady Center, then
fifteen thousand, by any estimate, fewer residents than So the
idea that we're going to take a compliment set from
(15:24):
that time frame in terms of the police department, and
it's two hundred short from that number and actually expect
to have beat policing downtown, the officers out of their
cars walking, you know, it's just not mathematically possible. The
officers we have now are by and large, you know,
dedicated to responding to emergency calls.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
That's all we have.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And if you see an officer out on the street
on Government Square, Fountain Square. Chances are they're being paid
overtime or it's a private detail for a restaurant like
and it's really not a good way to do business.
And that's where we slip into what I call this
kind of third world vibe, where it's like, if you're
a business that can afford to hire an off duty
police officer, you're in great shape.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
If you're a small business that doesn't.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Have that kind of Jeff Ruby budget, then you're in
a bad spot. And that is that is not the
way we are supposed to do things, and that's not
a sign of a healthy city.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
No only that, I mean if landlords become liable for
crime in and around the building in the city, imagine
what insurance rates would do. And there'd be properties that
are uninsurable and then the landlord has to hire security.
I'd be good lord. The rent down town would be
absolutely ridiculous. So I kind of see which way the
Court's going to lean here, But you never know he
is Steve good an attorney at law, break and hold
this whole thing down. When the quite honestly, development and
(16:40):
the progress Cincinnati's made in the last twenty plus years
is in jeopardy with the decision in this case and
whenever that comes on, but they'll probably settle as they
often do, and life will go on. He is Steve
Good and thanks again to joining body. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Have a great one anytime, Scott, Take care, take care.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
We've got to get to a news update here in
the very latest on the roadways and can you imagine
this kind of mess out there? Chuck will have that
for you, the forecast when the snow ends, and more
to follow. Slowey seven hundred WDLWT
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.