August 13, 2025 • 29 mins
Alabama Educator Amy McDonald returns from her trip to holocaust remembrance sites in Europe with her experience and what she hopes to share with her students. Then Perryn Caroll from the Jimmie Hale Mission explains the challenges they face in serving the homeless in Alabama.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Educating the educator so they can provide wisdom and share
it with their students.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I'm John Mount and this is Viewpoint, Alabama on the
Alabama Radio Network. The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous has
selected twelve middle and high school teachers from five US
states to participate in its twenty twenty five European Study
program that's in the Netherlands, Germany, and Denmark. Through lectures
and visits to actual Holocaust sites, these educators gained a
more profound understanding of the complex and tragic history of
(00:29):
the Holocaust. Among the educators who participated in this highly
acclaimed program was Amy McDonald from the Alabama Holocaust Education
Center here in Birmingham. Amy joins us now, Amy, welcome
to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hi, thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, we're honored to have you. You were one of only
twelve people to receive the honor of making this trip.
What did you hope to learn when you went?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Things that I could bring back to share with, you know,
teachers in Alabama all across the state, students in Alabama,
And these were first for me done a couple of
European study programs with the JFR over the years, but
this program was a first to me. I had never been,
(01:12):
you know, to the Netherlands or Denmark, so it was
a really really exciting thing for me.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I was really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Anything obviously, you're you're well studied in the subject, but
you've not seen a lot of this firsthand. Is there
anything that surprised you, anything jumped out at you that
you didn't realize just from reading from you know, books
and that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, there were so many things that surprised me. You know,
as a history teacher, obviously, I'm always thinking historical contexts,
so historically, the things that surprised.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Me were I was not aware.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I did not know that over eighty percent of Dutch
Jews perished in the Holocaust. Okay, that was a stagger statistic.
On the flip side, I also did not know that
nearly ninety five percent of Danish Jews were saved, you know,
during the Holocaust by their nine Jewish countrymen. So there
(02:14):
were so this was just all of these were really
really I didn't know this, but so this is you know,
these were kind of oh, I don't know, this was knowledge,
These were statistics, These were important facts. But then there
were there were so many instances where things got very
(02:36):
you know personal, you know that the statistics became very
human because you know, we visited places and if you
go to Amsterdam, obviously everybody or most people that go
to Amsterdam may visit the Ann Frank House. I had
never been to the Ann Frank house. It's a museum.
(02:57):
But one thing and it was great. But one thing
that our group got to do, which was really unique
and that most groups don't get to do, is we
were actually able to go to or go to the
Frank family home, you know, their apartment in where they
lived in Amsterdam for almost eight years, you know, before
(03:22):
the story that everyone knows about Ann Frank, you know,
the being on the run and the hiding. But we
were in their actual home and it was just really
really surreal, and you know, it was just very very emotional.
It really impacted me, you know, to be there in
that authentic space.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Did you actually visit any of the actual Holocaust that
the camps like Auschwitz or Dacaut, any of those places
that we hear so much about.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
After we left Amsterdam, we drove through northern Germany on
our way to Denmark and we spent a day and
then spent a night. We visited the bergen Belsen concentration camp.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
This was also a first for me. I have visited.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I have been on other trips, you know where we
have been where I've been to Auschwitz, Berkenal or Treblinka
or doc Owl, places like that. Bergen Belsen was a first,
and it was they have an amazing you know now
it's it's a memorial site. There aren't really many there
are no remaining structures there. It's a it's a memorial site. Uh,
(04:34):
but again very moving, kind of a very kind of
somber place. And they have an incredible museum there. So
that was that was really really valuable. We then went
on into Denmark and went into Copenhagen. Beautiful, beautiful city,
(04:55):
so many stories of resistance, you know, during the Holocaust,
Danish resistance you know, against the government, the German occupation,
and then also you know, just the the rescue, the
stories of rescue from from Denmark, we traveled out from
(05:17):
Copenhagen to some of the very small like fishing villages,
the hamlets, places like Gillilet, and this is one of
the places where so many of the Danish Jews were
were you.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Know, rescued.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
They were put on boats and you know, private boats
and taken across to Sweden where they were where they
were safe. Went several of these little villages and saw
these places where Jews were hidden, where they you know,
they were hidden in churches, they were hidden in homes,
(05:54):
they were hidden in uh brick factories.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
This was one really unique story.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
You know, we walked from these places, you know, through
the trails, through the woods and out onto the beaches
where the where the boats waited for them. It was
just it was really really I just keep using the
word authentic because just each story.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Was so personal.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I can tell you you're moved by it. This is Viewpoint, Alabama.
My name is John Mouse was speaking with Amy McDonald's.
She recently returned from a trip to Europe where she
toured a lot of the most iconic sensitive Holocaust sites
as part of an education program. Amy, if you would,
can you can you explain when you because you said
some of the sites there's nothing left, they've they've been bulldozed,
(06:38):
and rightfully so. But there's some that are a little
bit more intact. Like I've heard stories of the of
the showers that were not really showers that were used
in places like Auschwitz, and how people would actually claw
at the walls as they as they were being put
to death in these showers. Can you if you were
in some of these places, what what was the feeling?
(06:58):
Can you describe what it was like to be in
the same place that eighty years ago such unspeakable whores
were happening.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I have been to other places like Auschwitz and then
Auschwitz Berkenal, you know the killing center just right down
just a couple of miles down the road. I've been
to Dochau, I've been to Treblinka, I've been to Buchenwald,
and some of these places are like Buchenwald, doc Ou, Auschwitz.
(07:26):
Some of these places are still intact, as you said,
and it's it's hard to even really describe being in
these places, to walk, you know, into some of these buildings. Auschwitz, Birkenal,
the killing center that's was in Nazi occupied Poland. Uh,
(07:49):
there are you know, some existing barracks, there are some
existing other place. You know, the the crematory and the
gas chambers were blown up by the Germans before they
before they left. But you know, just seeing the rubble,
you know, going through the barracks where people men, women
(08:10):
were just suffering unspeakable things. I mean, there's really no
way to describe what it's like to walk through those places.
I can, but I do know that after going on
trips like these are going and experiencing these things, that
just it really makes you, you know, take a step back.
(08:34):
I can remember when I was in the classroom, it
really made me evaluate, Wow, how am I going to
change the way I teach? You know, how am I
gonna How is this going to come into my classroom?
How can I use this to impact and teach students
(08:55):
about what happened? You know, what they see is ancient history.
How can I really bring this home to them? And
even now I'm not really quote in the classroom, but
I really come into contact with so many teachers and
so many students, and you know, I have the same feelings.
(09:15):
You know, how can I use these experiences to to
tell these stories and to make an impact, you know
for people who may not ever actually go to these places.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I was going to ask you, how if you've ever
seen I'm sure you have the movie Shindler's List or
read the book, how does what you experienced. How does
it dovetail with the way the story was told in
the movie or in the book.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Gosh, yes, I have seen Schendler's List.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And actually years ago.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Went to Okay, the name of the camp that was
featured in Schendler's List was called plash Off, Uh, outside
of Crackow, Poland. And we uh, there's really nothing remaining
of that. That was a labor camp. Uh, there's a
memorial that's where Oscar Schindler's factory was in Crackow. And
(10:18):
you know, I think seeing films like that, they they
they attempt and they attempt to to be as realistic
as as possible. And you know, there I think there
are because that was made what in the nineties. You know,
there were survivors that watched Schindler's List and said, nothing
(10:40):
will ever come close to what we experienced. But this
this does tell somewhat of the story of some of
the atrocities, some of the things that Jews in these
camps endured.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
As with anything, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
You have to be careful. You know, of course here
comes my teacher talk. You have to be careful about
out your audience. You know, are they what what is appropriate?
You know, for certain age groups.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Since you've been able to go see all these things,
would you recommend this, Not that it's a fun trip
like hey, let's go have a great time in Auschwitz,
but a cript for families to go on, especially with kids.
And if you do take kids, is there a certain
age which probably it would not be appropriate.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yes, I mean I definitely recommend these experiences like this.
I mean as far as ages, you know, I think
it's great if you can go with a group, it
kind of enhances the experience. And this would be for
you know, teachers or groups of people. Now, as far
as students, I used to always encourage my high school
(11:47):
students to travel. Travel every possible time you get an opportunity.
Go go to Germany, go to France, you know, go
to wherever and experience these things. Let's talk about here
in the United States, I mean as far as age appropriate,
and I think it's really We've got one of the
(12:08):
best resources, you know, in the United States, with the
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, d C. There
are so many Holocaust museums and centers across the United States.
I think it's highly appropriate to take for families to
go as far as ages, you know, even here at
(12:31):
our center in Birmingham. You know, I would think fifth
grade probably fifth grade and up, and that would depend
on their maturity level. But there are different things that
are that you can, I don't know, give different age
kids lessons on access to I think you just have
(12:56):
to be really careful, you know what I show a
fifth grader graphic, you know, images from concentration camps.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Are there times when these things can be used really
responsibly with older students, yes, you know, but you still
have to do a lot of planning. You know, there's
there's a lot that can be done, you know, without
using a whole lot of the graphic imagery. But yeah,
I highly recommend always have taken advantage of opportunities like this.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Amy.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
This trip was funded by the Jewish Foundation for the Righteous. Uh,
can you tell me a little bit about the mission
of the Jewish Foundation for the Righteous and some of
the other things they are involved in.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, this organization with has was just like was and
has been, you know, just so instrumental for me as
a as a teacher. I first became in with the JFR.
I think it was in two thy eleven, I want to.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Say, And they do a summer institute for teachers and
still do that.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
It's like a five day It used to be in
New York, it is now held in New Jersey, and
you know, it's very a very academic. You know, some
of the top scholars in the field of Holocaust education present.
And I can remember it just being really again, I
(14:36):
was just like blown away by the level of scholarships
and then how we could break that down and use
that in our classrooms. So the JFR does a lot
of teacher training.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
The back ground of the of the of the organization
is a lady named Stanley Stall, and she's was, you know,
I think the founder or the she's now the I
want to say, the executive vice president or the organization.
But the whole thing was founded to provide help and
(15:14):
assistance to people who rescued you know, Jewish Foundation for
the Righteous People who rescued Jews.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
During the Holocaust.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And they they even today, these rescuers are you know,
they're elderly, they're living in some of these maybe Eastern
European countries, uh, and they really really rely on some
of the you know, the funds that help them pay
for medicine or that help them pay for groceries, help
(15:46):
them pay for things that they need in their in
their older years. So the JFR does that, It provides
assistance to rescuers. And then you know, also one of
their main their focus is teacher training, you know, really
providing teachers with background and you know, historical backgrounds support
(16:08):
resources that they can use in the classroom.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And uh, Amy, you said you're from the Alabima Holocaust
Education Center here in Birmingham. More information on right what's
available here in Alabama, specifically in Birmingham is you've got
a website people can go to. How do people avail
themselves of your resources?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, in fact, that's a really great We're really excited
about all the things going on at our center. We're
on Highland Avenue, uh in Birmingham, and we we do
have a website that and we're really excited that our
website is getting we're kind of relaunching a new website
(16:47):
here within the next probably week or so.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
But it's just a h E c Info dot org.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
That's our website, and you, uh, there's all kinds of
you can find information on let's see teachers can find
information about professional development opportunities. We're gonna be launching an
educator toolkit soon, online resources for teachers. We have community programming.
(17:19):
We have an exhibit that focuses on twenty Alabama Holocaust
survivors that came to Birmingham or that came to Alabama
after you know, the war. We offer field trips, so
we you know, we've got a lot going on so
and and we you know, our center is is connected
(17:41):
to the j f R. You know, we are considered
a center of excellence with the Jewish Foundation for the Righteous,
So you know, I'm.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Really proud of that connection.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Both of these organizations were really really instrumental for me
as a teacher, and you.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Know that's always my viewpoint.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I'm really always looking kind of out there to teachers.
What can I do to help teachers. I've been there,
I know what it's like. I know what I need
is you know, I just hope I can in this
new role, help provide that for teachers and students. We
love seeing students bringing students in and we are also
available to go out to schools, like if you know,
(18:23):
schools need speakers, if they need resources, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Amy McDonald, thank you so much for joining us this
week on Viewpoint, and I hope you continue to educate
people because those people who are out there today who
are students, will someday be our leaders and if they
don't know their history, they might repeat it.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
That's right. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
And up next on Viewpoint, Alabama, our own JT explores
the issue of homelessness with parent Carroll from the Birmingham
based Jimmy Hale Rescue Mission.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
We're talking about what Donald Trump is doing in the
District of Columbia, DC. He's on his way to his
golf course in Virginia and he passes an encampment of
homeless people. Oh my gosh, this, We've got to do
something about this. Paren welcome in, thanks for being.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Here, glad to be here. Thank you you you know.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
I think, yeah, okay, we've got to do something about it.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
Okay, let's talk about the homeless population and you know,
the majority of them and what they are. Is it addiction,
is it mental illness, is it loss of job? Is
it physical disability? Where do most of these people fit
in these categories? You know, because it's it's it's pretty pretty.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Scattered well, and you're taking the right approach. Don't look
at the homeless population is one unit. The majority of
them now in the Birmingham area do have mental disabilities.
So mental health issues have risen a number one. Addiction
is number two and leading calls or contributing calls to homelessness.
(19:50):
Then you have physical disabilities, you.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Have mental disability.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yeah, mental disabilities is of course number one, and so
you have to address that individual's cause of how they
got where they are.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
So not everybody is an attict drunk on or taking
drugs and smoking crack and a lot of people don't
do drugs or drink out there that are homeless, that
have other issues like you know, not sure what day
of the week.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
It is.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
One of the saddest things that we see is an
adult who has a mental disability, not a mental illness,
but perhaps they were born with a mental disability, down
syndrome or other disabilities. Their parents pass away and their
left with no one to care for them, and they
end up homeless. And that's a very sad situation.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Horrible situation.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Well, with the situation that's going on in our country,
with the amount of homelessness, it's a major problem, and
it seems to be getting worse than better.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
What is the solution? I mean, there's a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
Say, well, and Mackenzie and I actually talked about this yesterday,
what if they just built a big warehouse and put
a bunch of cots in there and had running water
in a shower. Would that help the situation? And you
recently witness something just like that, tell us about that.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I did firsthand witnessed city three times the size of
Birmingham out west that has ten times the homeless problem
because their primary approach is warehousing people, not providing services,
not providing a pathway to exit homelessness, but just giving
them three hots and a cot and saying, here, go
(21:23):
into this warehouse. You'll be safe. You'll be off the
street so we don't have to look at you. But
they're not giving them a hand up. It's a handout
and they're.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Kind of like, oh, this is awesome. I don't have
to sleep under a bridge tonight. And if I just
show up I curfew. I'm going to say, what is
there time limit? Can they stay there a year?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Two years?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
They can stay there forever as long as they make
curfew every day they have a reserve bed.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
That's not fixing the problem, that's not plugging it back in.
You're right, it's a complete one hundred percent handout, not
helping them plug back in. All right, So if the
President brings you in and says, all right, Parn, I
understand you're doing great work in Birmingham, Love you heard
great things about your wonderful person. I want you to
help me fix this. What would your plan be from
in a broad stroke here, from top to bottom? If
(22:10):
you know, if it's to get people plugged back in,
surround them with the services that you know, medical professionals, psychologists,
you know, whatever people are needed, addiction specialists, where would
you start? And then let's kind of tear it down
as to how that would be, you know, applicable.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I would love to sit down with the President on this,
and I'd love to bring him to Jimmy Hill mission.
Quite frankly, it is not a one size fits all.
That's the first thing I would tell him, Because you're
dealing with individuals, and no two pathways into homelessness are
exactly the same, and no two pathways out are going
to be exactly the same. So it starts with comprehensive services,
(22:49):
not throwing people in a warehouse. I would say, bring
them in, have an intake assessment. What is the issue
here or what are the issue? And like he said
in his press conference, address the root cause of the homelessness. Okay,
not the fact that they're on the street, but.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
Why what got them there?
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Was it childhood trauma that made them turn to drugs
to escape? Is it a mental illness that's gone untreated
because we have insufficient mental illness services in our country.
What's the issue? Then address the issue now for someone
to make it in our society and be a contributing
member of society. They need skills, so they need they
(23:34):
need physical health, they need mental health, they need relationship health.
You got to get along with people both at work
and in your neighborhood. You need vocational health. Provide vocational
training and education so that someone can obtain and maintain
a living wage employment. And then quite frankly, our seekret sauces.
(23:56):
People need spiritual health as well.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
So when you look at all these services and facilities
to house them while they're going through that, it costs money,
it does or a big job of volunteers. Okay, So
I would imagine, like any business now, finding good help
to fulfill what you need is tough.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
That's been a challenge for us. We are almost fully
staffed now, but for the last three years we have
not been finding licensed, certified trained counselors, finding recovery coaches,
case managers, vocational teacher employment specialists. We're very fortunate we
work with the junior college and the community college systems
(24:38):
of Alabama to provide that vocational training. And quite frankly, JT.
We're starting with literacy with some of our clients. They
don't know how to read and write.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Is this feasible in a big picture?
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (24:52):
What's stopping it?
Speaker 6 (24:53):
Why isn't it happening in all these cities that are
covered with homeless encampments?
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Well, I think part of it is the these approach.
Are they using a warehousing approach or are they using
a hand up approach?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (25:06):
Yeah, So you make great points here, and when you
talk about these services, when you go look for these people,
are these different than normal run of the mill people
that are.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
In these professions?
Speaker 6 (25:20):
For instance, if you need a psychologist to come in
and talk about maybe the mental problems or issues they're having,
are these types of people that you're looking for have
a different mindset when it comes to helping the community on.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
A pro bono.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
Set up versus well, I make two hundred thousand dollars
in my practice, it's going to be tough for me
to come in here and do this. Are those people
tough to find because they're different?
Speaker 5 (25:46):
We are different?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah, I had that situation. I left a very lucrative
law practice because this is what I felt called to do.
I've never felt richer in my life.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (25:57):
Well, I mean this is a juggernaut. There's, like you said,
no one big answer here. But are we making progress?
Do you see in the Birmingham area for instances.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yes, our number of individuals who entered homelessness for the
first time dropped from last year to this year, and
the number that are exiting homeless business is increasing. So
the hard work is paying off, all right.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
When you talk about the homeless people and what majority
of the homeless people out there, do you believe that
if they were offered these services and a place to go,
would say great, let's go.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
How many want to stay on the street.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
There is a population within the homeless sector that don't
want the help. Now what are the reasons for that.
We see a lot of the veterans that have claustrophobic issues,
being close around people issues, noise issues really calls them
severe mental anxiety. So while they say they don't want it,
(27:03):
if their conditions, if the underlying condition, the root cause,
is treated, I do believe that we can bring a
very high percentage of people out of encampments and on
the street.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
What's the rectivism rate at Jimmy Hall. Somebody comes in
there and they leave. How many stay out and plug
back in versus end up back in the same cycle.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Well, for us, it's very low because we're investing in
a longer runway for those people to ensure or to
increase the likelihood of long term success. You start with
the sixteen week program, Phase one, Phase two, you're going
back to work, but you're continuing to receive services and
have structure. Phase two and then phase three and after
(27:46):
care where you have access to a case manager for
the first year that you're out back in the community.
Because you're going to hit you're going to hit turbulence,
You're gonna hit situations that could get you back off track,
back into what cause you to become homeless the first time,
So we want to provide that support. You have to
build resiliency. You have to build those muscles to react properly,
(28:10):
properly to situations to stay on track.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
How do you feel about forced entrance if people don't
want to come off the street, and you can guarantee
an eighty percent success rate that you know at some point, Look,
you're out here, you're taking money from people, You've been
arrest a few times, you're still on drugs.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
We're going to place you in here.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't
make them drink.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You can't.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Someone has to want it, and we do say if
we at Jimmy Hall Mission are working harder to help
you escape homelessness or addiction, then you're working. Then there's
a problem. So they have to want it and they
have to be willing to put in the work. Now
that being said, anytime you have someone who is either
(28:54):
a danger to themselves or a danger to others, that
presents a different situation and they do need protection as
well as community needs protection.
Speaker 6 (29:05):
Well, I really appreciate your insight and you've got I
think you know a great program with Jimmy Hell you've
got an incredible success rate. And the faith based part
of it is certainly critical in all of this as well.
But I like your plan for the president to lay
it out there, and I like your design of the
structure and how to get it done. And the proof's
in the putting. It's working for you, guys, So thank
(29:27):
you for sharing with us.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Hey, if anybody can get a sit in set up
with a president, let me know.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
Let me call them real quick. Here we see we
can get you. That'd be awesome. Parent. Thank you. Good
to see you too, Good to see you.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Take thank you.
Speaker 6 (29:37):
You've been listening to Viewpoint Alabama, a public affairs program
from the Alabama Radio Network. The opinions expressed on Viewpoint
Alabama are not necessarily those of the staff, management, or
advertisers of this station.
Educating the educator so they can provide wisdom and share
it with their students.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I'm John Mount and this is Viewpoint, Alabama on the
Alabama Radio Network. The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous has
selected twelve middle and high school teachers from five US
states to participate in its twenty twenty five European Study
program that's in the Netherlands, Germany, and Denmark. Through lectures
and visits to actual Holocaust sites, these educators gained a
more profound understanding of the complex and tragic history of
(00:29):
the Holocaust. Among the educators who participated in this highly
acclaimed program was Amy McDonald from the Alabama Holocaust Education
Center here in Birmingham. Amy joins us now, Amy, welcome
to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hi, thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, we're honored to have you. You were one of only
twelve people to receive the honor of making this trip.
What did you hope to learn when you went?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Things that I could bring back to share with, you know,
teachers in Alabama all across the state, students in Alabama,
And these were first for me done a couple of
European study programs with the JFR over the years, but
this program was a first to me. I had never been,
(01:12):
you know, to the Netherlands or Denmark, so it was
a really really exciting thing for me.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I was really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Anything obviously, you're you're well studied in the subject, but
you've not seen a lot of this firsthand. Is there
anything that surprised you, anything jumped out at you that
you didn't realize just from reading from you know, books
and that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, there were so many things that surprised me. You know,
as a history teacher, obviously, I'm always thinking historical contexts,
so historically, the things that surprised.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Me were I was not aware.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I did not know that over eighty percent of Dutch
Jews perished in the Holocaust. Okay, that was a stagger statistic.
On the flip side, I also did not know that
nearly ninety five percent of Danish Jews were saved, you know,
during the Holocaust by their nine Jewish countrymen. So there
(02:14):
were so this was just all of these were really
really I didn't know this, but so this is you know,
these were kind of oh, I don't know, this was knowledge,
These were statistics, These were important facts. But then there
were there were so many instances where things got very
(02:36):
you know personal, you know that the statistics became very
human because you know, we visited places and if you
go to Amsterdam, obviously everybody or most people that go
to Amsterdam may visit the Ann Frank House. I had
never been to the Ann Frank house. It's a museum.
(02:57):
But one thing and it was great. But one thing
that our group got to do, which was really unique
and that most groups don't get to do, is we
were actually able to go to or go to the
Frank family home, you know, their apartment in where they
lived in Amsterdam for almost eight years, you know, before
(03:22):
the story that everyone knows about Ann Frank, you know,
the being on the run and the hiding. But we
were in their actual home and it was just really
really surreal, and you know, it was just very very emotional.
It really impacted me, you know, to be there in
that authentic space.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Did you actually visit any of the actual Holocaust that
the camps like Auschwitz or Dacaut, any of those places
that we hear so much about.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
After we left Amsterdam, we drove through northern Germany on
our way to Denmark and we spent a day and
then spent a night. We visited the bergen Belsen concentration camp.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
This was also a first for me. I have visited.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I have been on other trips, you know where we
have been where I've been to Auschwitz, Berkenal or Treblinka
or doc Owl, places like that. Bergen Belsen was a first,
and it was they have an amazing you know now
it's it's a memorial site. There aren't really many there
are no remaining structures there. It's a it's a memorial site. Uh,
(04:34):
but again very moving, kind of a very kind of
somber place. And they have an incredible museum there. So
that was that was really really valuable. We then went
on into Denmark and went into Copenhagen. Beautiful, beautiful city,
(04:55):
so many stories of resistance, you know, during the Holocaust,
Danish resistance you know, against the government, the German occupation,
and then also you know, just the the rescue, the
stories of rescue from from Denmark, we traveled out from
(05:17):
Copenhagen to some of the very small like fishing villages,
the hamlets, places like Gillilet, and this is one of
the places where so many of the Danish Jews were
were you.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Know, rescued.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
They were put on boats and you know, private boats
and taken across to Sweden where they were where they
were safe. Went several of these little villages and saw
these places where Jews were hidden, where they you know,
they were hidden in churches, they were hidden in homes,
(05:54):
they were hidden in uh brick factories.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
This was one really unique story.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
You know, we walked from these places, you know, through
the trails, through the woods and out onto the beaches
where the where the boats waited for them. It was
just it was really really I just keep using the
word authentic because just each story.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Was so personal.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I can tell you you're moved by it. This is Viewpoint, Alabama.
My name is John Mouse was speaking with Amy McDonald's.
She recently returned from a trip to Europe where she
toured a lot of the most iconic sensitive Holocaust sites
as part of an education program. Amy, if you would,
can you can you explain when you because you said
some of the sites there's nothing left, they've they've been bulldozed,
(06:38):
and rightfully so. But there's some that are a little
bit more intact. Like I've heard stories of the of
the showers that were not really showers that were used
in places like Auschwitz, and how people would actually claw
at the walls as they as they were being put
to death in these showers. Can you if you were
in some of these places, what what was the feeling?
(06:58):
Can you describe what it was like to be in
the same place that eighty years ago such unspeakable whores
were happening.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I have been to other places like Auschwitz and then
Auschwitz Berkenal, you know the killing center just right down
just a couple of miles down the road. I've been
to Dochau, I've been to Treblinka, I've been to Buchenwald,
and some of these places are like Buchenwald, doc Ou, Auschwitz.
(07:26):
Some of these places are still intact, as you said,
and it's it's hard to even really describe being in
these places, to walk, you know, into some of these buildings. Auschwitz, Birkenal,
the killing center that's was in Nazi occupied Poland. Uh,
(07:49):
there are you know, some existing barracks, there are some
existing other place. You know, the the crematory and the
gas chambers were blown up by the Germans before they
before they left. But you know, just seeing the rubble,
you know, going through the barracks where people men, women
(08:10):
were just suffering unspeakable things. I mean, there's really no
way to describe what it's like to walk through those places.
I can, but I do know that after going on
trips like these are going and experiencing these things, that
just it really makes you, you know, take a step back.
(08:34):
I can remember when I was in the classroom, it
really made me evaluate, Wow, how am I going to
change the way I teach? You know, how am I
gonna How is this going to come into my classroom?
How can I use this to impact and teach students
(08:55):
about what happened? You know, what they see is ancient history.
How can I really bring this home to them? And
even now I'm not really quote in the classroom, but
I really come into contact with so many teachers and
so many students, and you know, I have the same feelings.
(09:15):
You know, how can I use these experiences to to
tell these stories and to make an impact, you know
for people who may not ever actually go to these places.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I was going to ask you, how if you've ever
seen I'm sure you have the movie Shindler's List or
read the book, how does what you experienced. How does
it dovetail with the way the story was told in
the movie or in the book.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Gosh, yes, I have seen Schendler's List.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And actually years ago.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Went to Okay, the name of the camp that was
featured in Schendler's List was called plash Off, Uh, outside
of Crackow, Poland. And we uh, there's really nothing remaining
of that. That was a labor camp. Uh, there's a
memorial that's where Oscar Schindler's factory was in Crackow. And
(10:18):
you know, I think seeing films like that, they they
they attempt and they attempt to to be as realistic
as as possible. And you know, there I think there
are because that was made what in the nineties. You know,
there were survivors that watched Schindler's List and said, nothing
(10:40):
will ever come close to what we experienced. But this
this does tell somewhat of the story of some of
the atrocities, some of the things that Jews in these
camps endured.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
As with anything, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
You have to be careful. You know, of course here
comes my teacher talk. You have to be careful about
out your audience. You know, are they what what is appropriate?
You know, for certain age groups.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Since you've been able to go see all these things,
would you recommend this, Not that it's a fun trip
like hey, let's go have a great time in Auschwitz,
but a cript for families to go on, especially with kids.
And if you do take kids, is there a certain
age which probably it would not be appropriate.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yes, I mean I definitely recommend these experiences like this.
I mean as far as ages, you know, I think
it's great if you can go with a group, it
kind of enhances the experience. And this would be for
you know, teachers or groups of people. Now, as far
as students, I used to always encourage my high school
(11:47):
students to travel. Travel every possible time you get an opportunity.
Go go to Germany, go to France, you know, go
to wherever and experience these things. Let's talk about here
in the United States, I mean as far as age appropriate,
and I think it's really We've got one of the
(12:08):
best resources, you know, in the United States, with the
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, d C. There
are so many Holocaust museums and centers across the United States.
I think it's highly appropriate to take for families to
go as far as ages, you know, even here at
(12:31):
our center in Birmingham. You know, I would think fifth
grade probably fifth grade and up, and that would depend
on their maturity level. But there are different things that
are that you can, I don't know, give different age
kids lessons on access to I think you just have
(12:56):
to be really careful, you know what I show a
fifth grader graphic, you know, images from concentration camps.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Are there times when these things can be used really
responsibly with older students, yes, you know, but you still
have to do a lot of planning. You know, there's
there's a lot that can be done, you know, without
using a whole lot of the graphic imagery. But yeah,
I highly recommend always have taken advantage of opportunities like this.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Amy.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
This trip was funded by the Jewish Foundation for the Righteous. Uh,
can you tell me a little bit about the mission
of the Jewish Foundation for the Righteous and some of
the other things they are involved in.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, this organization with has was just like was and
has been, you know, just so instrumental for me as
a as a teacher. I first became in with the JFR.
I think it was in two thy eleven, I want to.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Say, And they do a summer institute for teachers and
still do that.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
It's like a five day It used to be in
New York, it is now held in New Jersey, and
you know, it's very a very academic. You know, some
of the top scholars in the field of Holocaust education present.
And I can remember it just being really again, I
(14:36):
was just like blown away by the level of scholarships
and then how we could break that down and use
that in our classrooms. So the JFR does a lot
of teacher training.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
The back ground of the of the of the organization
is a lady named Stanley Stall, and she's was, you know,
I think the founder or the she's now the I
want to say, the executive vice president or the organization.
But the whole thing was founded to provide help and
(15:14):
assistance to people who rescued you know, Jewish Foundation for
the Righteous People who rescued Jews.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
During the Holocaust.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And they they even today, these rescuers are you know,
they're elderly, they're living in some of these maybe Eastern
European countries, uh, and they really really rely on some
of the you know, the funds that help them pay
for medicine or that help them pay for groceries, help
(15:46):
them pay for things that they need in their in
their older years. So the JFR does that, It provides
assistance to rescuers. And then you know, also one of
their main their focus is teacher training, you know, really
providing teachers with background and you know, historical backgrounds support
(16:08):
resources that they can use in the classroom.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And uh, Amy, you said you're from the Alabima Holocaust
Education Center here in Birmingham. More information on right what's
available here in Alabama, specifically in Birmingham is you've got
a website people can go to. How do people avail
themselves of your resources?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, in fact, that's a really great We're really excited
about all the things going on at our center. We're
on Highland Avenue, uh in Birmingham, and we we do
have a website that and we're really excited that our
website is getting we're kind of relaunching a new website
(16:47):
here within the next probably week or so.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
But it's just a h E c Info dot org.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
That's our website, and you, uh, there's all kinds of
you can find information on let's see teachers can find
information about professional development opportunities. We're gonna be launching an
educator toolkit soon, online resources for teachers. We have community programming.
(17:19):
We have an exhibit that focuses on twenty Alabama Holocaust
survivors that came to Birmingham or that came to Alabama
after you know, the war. We offer field trips, so
we you know, we've got a lot going on so
and and we you know, our center is is connected
(17:41):
to the j f R. You know, we are considered
a center of excellence with the Jewish Foundation for the Righteous,
So you know, I'm.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Really proud of that connection.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Both of these organizations were really really instrumental for me
as a teacher, and you.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Know that's always my viewpoint.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I'm really always looking kind of out there to teachers.
What can I do to help teachers. I've been there,
I know what it's like. I know what I need
is you know, I just hope I can in this
new role, help provide that for teachers and students. We
love seeing students bringing students in and we are also
available to go out to schools, like if you know,
(18:23):
schools need speakers, if they need resources, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Amy McDonald, thank you so much for joining us this
week on Viewpoint, and I hope you continue to educate
people because those people who are out there today who
are students, will someday be our leaders and if they
don't know their history, they might repeat it.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
That's right. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
And up next on Viewpoint, Alabama, our own JT explores
the issue of homelessness with parent Carroll from the Birmingham
based Jimmy Hale Rescue Mission.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
We're talking about what Donald Trump is doing in the
District of Columbia, DC. He's on his way to his
golf course in Virginia and he passes an encampment of
homeless people. Oh my gosh, this, We've got to do
something about this. Paren welcome in, thanks for being.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Here, glad to be here. Thank you you you know.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
I think, yeah, okay, we've got to do something about it.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
Okay, let's talk about the homeless population and you know,
the majority of them and what they are. Is it addiction,
is it mental illness, is it loss of job? Is
it physical disability? Where do most of these people fit
in these categories? You know, because it's it's it's pretty pretty.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Scattered well, and you're taking the right approach. Don't look
at the homeless population is one unit. The majority of
them now in the Birmingham area do have mental disabilities.
So mental health issues have risen a number one. Addiction
is number two and leading calls or contributing calls to homelessness.
(19:50):
Then you have physical disabilities, you.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Have mental disability.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yeah, mental disabilities is of course number one, and so
you have to address that individual's cause of how they
got where they are.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
So not everybody is an attict drunk on or taking
drugs and smoking crack and a lot of people don't
do drugs or drink out there that are homeless, that
have other issues like you know, not sure what day
of the week.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
It is.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
One of the saddest things that we see is an
adult who has a mental disability, not a mental illness,
but perhaps they were born with a mental disability, down
syndrome or other disabilities. Their parents pass away and their
left with no one to care for them, and they
end up homeless. And that's a very sad situation.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Horrible situation.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Well, with the situation that's going on in our country,
with the amount of homelessness, it's a major problem, and
it seems to be getting worse than better.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
What is the solution? I mean, there's a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
Say, well, and Mackenzie and I actually talked about this yesterday,
what if they just built a big warehouse and put
a bunch of cots in there and had running water
in a shower. Would that help the situation? And you
recently witness something just like that, tell us about that.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I did firsthand witnessed city three times the size of
Birmingham out west that has ten times the homeless problem
because their primary approach is warehousing people, not providing services,
not providing a pathway to exit homelessness, but just giving
them three hots and a cot and saying, here, go
(21:23):
into this warehouse. You'll be safe. You'll be off the
street so we don't have to look at you. But
they're not giving them a hand up. It's a handout
and they're.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Kind of like, oh, this is awesome. I don't have
to sleep under a bridge tonight. And if I just
show up I curfew. I'm going to say, what is
there time limit? Can they stay there a year?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Two years?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
They can stay there forever as long as they make
curfew every day they have a reserve bed.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
That's not fixing the problem, that's not plugging it back in.
You're right, it's a complete one hundred percent handout, not
helping them plug back in. All right, So if the
President brings you in and says, all right, Parn, I
understand you're doing great work in Birmingham, Love you heard
great things about your wonderful person. I want you to
help me fix this. What would your plan be from
in a broad stroke here, from top to bottom? If
(22:10):
you know, if it's to get people plugged back in,
surround them with the services that you know, medical professionals, psychologists,
you know, whatever people are needed, addiction specialists, where would
you start? And then let's kind of tear it down
as to how that would be, you know, applicable.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I would love to sit down with the President on this,
and I'd love to bring him to Jimmy Hill mission.
Quite frankly, it is not a one size fits all.
That's the first thing I would tell him, Because you're
dealing with individuals, and no two pathways into homelessness are
exactly the same, and no two pathways out are going
to be exactly the same. So it starts with comprehensive services,
(22:49):
not throwing people in a warehouse. I would say, bring
them in, have an intake assessment. What is the issue
here or what are the issue? And like he said
in his press conference, address the root cause of the homelessness. Okay,
not the fact that they're on the street, but.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
Why what got them there?
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Was it childhood trauma that made them turn to drugs
to escape? Is it a mental illness that's gone untreated
because we have insufficient mental illness services in our country.
What's the issue? Then address the issue now for someone
to make it in our society and be a contributing
member of society. They need skills, so they need they
(23:34):
need physical health, they need mental health, they need relationship health.
You got to get along with people both at work
and in your neighborhood. You need vocational health. Provide vocational
training and education so that someone can obtain and maintain
a living wage employment. And then quite frankly, our seekret sauces.
(23:56):
People need spiritual health as well.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
So when you look at all these services and facilities
to house them while they're going through that, it costs money,
it does or a big job of volunteers. Okay, So
I would imagine, like any business now, finding good help
to fulfill what you need is tough.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
That's been a challenge for us. We are almost fully
staffed now, but for the last three years we have
not been finding licensed, certified trained counselors, finding recovery coaches,
case managers, vocational teacher employment specialists. We're very fortunate we
work with the junior college and the community college systems
(24:38):
of Alabama to provide that vocational training. And quite frankly, JT.
We're starting with literacy with some of our clients. They
don't know how to read and write.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Is this feasible in a big picture?
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (24:52):
What's stopping it?
Speaker 6 (24:53):
Why isn't it happening in all these cities that are
covered with homeless encampments?
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Well, I think part of it is the these approach.
Are they using a warehousing approach or are they using
a hand up approach?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (25:06):
Yeah, So you make great points here, and when you
talk about these services, when you go look for these people,
are these different than normal run of the mill people
that are.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
In these professions?
Speaker 6 (25:20):
For instance, if you need a psychologist to come in
and talk about maybe the mental problems or issues they're having,
are these types of people that you're looking for have
a different mindset when it comes to helping the community on.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
A pro bono.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
Set up versus well, I make two hundred thousand dollars
in my practice, it's going to be tough for me
to come in here and do this. Are those people
tough to find because they're different?
Speaker 5 (25:46):
We are different?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah, I had that situation. I left a very lucrative
law practice because this is what I felt called to do.
I've never felt richer in my life.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (25:57):
Well, I mean this is a juggernaut. There's, like you said,
no one big answer here. But are we making progress?
Do you see in the Birmingham area for instances.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yes, our number of individuals who entered homelessness for the
first time dropped from last year to this year, and
the number that are exiting homeless business is increasing. So
the hard work is paying off, all right.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
When you talk about the homeless people and what majority
of the homeless people out there, do you believe that
if they were offered these services and a place to go,
would say great, let's go.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
How many want to stay on the street.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
There is a population within the homeless sector that don't
want the help. Now what are the reasons for that.
We see a lot of the veterans that have claustrophobic issues,
being close around people issues, noise issues really calls them
severe mental anxiety. So while they say they don't want it,
(27:03):
if their conditions, if the underlying condition, the root cause,
is treated, I do believe that we can bring a
very high percentage of people out of encampments and on
the street.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
What's the rectivism rate at Jimmy Hall. Somebody comes in
there and they leave. How many stay out and plug
back in versus end up back in the same cycle.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Well, for us, it's very low because we're investing in
a longer runway for those people to ensure or to
increase the likelihood of long term success. You start with
the sixteen week program, Phase one, Phase two, you're going
back to work, but you're continuing to receive services and
have structure. Phase two and then phase three and after
(27:46):
care where you have access to a case manager for
the first year that you're out back in the community.
Because you're going to hit you're going to hit turbulence,
You're gonna hit situations that could get you back off track,
back into what cause you to become homeless the first time,
So we want to provide that support. You have to
build resiliency. You have to build those muscles to react properly,
(28:10):
properly to situations to stay on track.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
How do you feel about forced entrance if people don't
want to come off the street, and you can guarantee
an eighty percent success rate that you know at some point, Look,
you're out here, you're taking money from people, You've been
arrest a few times, you're still on drugs.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
We're going to place you in here.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't
make them drink.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You can't.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Someone has to want it, and we do say if
we at Jimmy Hall Mission are working harder to help
you escape homelessness or addiction, then you're working. Then there's
a problem. So they have to want it and they
have to be willing to put in the work. Now
that being said, anytime you have someone who is either
(28:54):
a danger to themselves or a danger to others, that
presents a different situation and they do need protection as
well as community needs protection.
Speaker 6 (29:05):
Well, I really appreciate your insight and you've got I
think you know a great program with Jimmy Hell you've
got an incredible success rate. And the faith based part
of it is certainly critical in all of this as well.
But I like your plan for the president to lay
it out there, and I like your design of the
structure and how to get it done. And the proof's
in the putting. It's working for you, guys, So thank
(29:27):
you for sharing with us.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Hey, if anybody can get a sit in set up
with a president, let me know.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
Let me call them real quick. Here we see we
can get you. That'd be awesome. Parent. Thank you. Good
to see you too, Good to see you.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Take thank you.
Speaker 6 (29:37):
You've been listening to Viewpoint Alabama, a public affairs program
from the Alabama Radio Network. The opinions expressed on Viewpoint
Alabama are not necessarily those of the staff, management, or
advertisers of this station.
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