November 13, 2025 • 19 mins
Dr. Mishel Rych talks about her book, Chasing Rescue: Surviving Narcissistic Abuse
https://doctormishel.com/mybook/
https://doctormishel.com/mybook/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
That says the Uncle Henry Show here on news radio
seventy ten WNTM. And in this half hour of show,
we're going to learn together about narcissism, yes, and about
surviving narcissistic abuse. We have a local author that we're
going to talk to who's written a book about narcissistic
(00:37):
abuse and surviving it. Her name is doctor Michelle Rich.
Well doctor, Now should I call you doctor Michelle or
doctor rich or doctor Michelle Rich.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Doctor Michelle is really what everybody knows me by.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, So doctor Michelle, thank you for talking to me
here on the Uncle Emery Show about your book. Before
we get into your book, how can people find you
on line?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So I am on all of the socials and you
can find me at doctor Michelle. And that's spelled out
so Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, it's spelled d O C T
O R M I S H E L. And then
I also have my website with information which is www
(01:22):
dot doctor Michelle, all spelled out dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Okay, So, doctor Michelle, your book is Chasing Rescue Surviving
Narcissistic Abuse, and I want this opportunity for me and
the radio listener to learn about narcissism because it's thrown
around now, it gets mentioned all the time, and I
don't know if people are substituting that for just a
(01:47):
rude person or something like that. So can you explain
to the listener and to me what is narcissism? What
is a narcissist?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So I love that that you're giving me this opportunity.
Need to do this because I agree with you. So
many people believe that narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder is
just basically it's become just what you what people start
calling someone they don't like, right, right, so they are
you know, oh someone's rude, they must be a narcissist.
(02:17):
Or someone talked about themselves, they must be a narcissist.
But actually, to be considered a narcissist, it's not just
about whether somebody is rude or somebody talks about themselves
a lot. It's not just a me monster like I
call them, you know, the people who love to talk
about themselves or love attention. It's really you need several
(02:40):
criteria and it's actually it's the person's way of being
in the world. So a narcissist is someone who has
this sense of grandiosity about themselves, and they think that
they're very self very like, they have a high level
of self importance. They think that they're the smartest person
in the room. They tend to exaggerate everything about themselves,
(03:03):
they minimize everything about other people. They tend to be
preoccupied with how successful and importance they are, and they
have this great need for admiration. And this isn't just
in a way that can be annoying to other people, right,
(03:24):
Like we've all been around those people who just talk
about themselves at a party and we're just you know,
people roll their eyes and walk away. These are people
who actually intend to do harm to other people. So
a narcissist is someone who is their behavior is actually
impacting others around them, whether it's at work, whether it's
(03:48):
in interpersonal relationships, because it's a pattern that has existed
basically their whole life, and it's just how they are
in the world. They are very inflexible about their beliefs,
they don't care about other people. They have very low,
if any empathy. They are always it's a it's it's
(04:13):
something that is always how they are. And a lot
of times the way that you can really tell if
somebody is a narcissist, is are they causing harm to
other people? And is this something where they can be
very charming on the outside, but behind closed doors they're
super different. And that's really one of the characteristics that
(04:33):
really will clue me in initially for someone is are
they super different behind closed doors than they are in public,
because it really, it really is something that's very damaging
to the people around them. Again, somebody can be annoying
and talk about themselves a lot, that's fine, that doesn't
necessarily harm other people. A narcissist behavior harms other people.
(04:57):
And they're all about how in control and image. So
a narcissist will do whatever they have to do to
keep up their image because they care more about what
the outside world that doesn't know them thinks about them
than they actually care about people who are close to them,
and so they're all about image and they will use
(05:17):
whatever it takes to keep power and control in someone
else's life. So it's basically a harmful set of personality
traits that exists across their lifespan that harms the other
people in their lives and actually impacts the narcissist as well.
Oftentimes they will lose jobs, they will lose relationships, but
(05:37):
they will always be blaming other people for that. They
will never take accountability for their actions, which is another
another kind of characteristic of a narcissist.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well, when you told me that one of the signs
that you would pick up on is acting differently in
public versus behind closed doors, the thing that tips me off.
And I'm only yes, I'm not trained like you are
or educated like you are. But the difference I've found
between narcissists and people who are just simply selfish and
(06:10):
really love themselves is the lack of empathy.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Thing.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I've encountered people that seem to not be able to
feel empathy or had to try and mimic it from
other people. Yes, is that a major component of this
is the inability to feel empathy for others and put
yourself in somebody else's shoes.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
That is a huge aspect of narcissism, because some narcissists
can sometimes feel empathy, but a narcissist doesn't actually have
Like when they've done brain science or brain studies they've done,
you know, the neuroscience behind it, They've actually found that
the area in the brain of a healthy person compared
(06:52):
to a narcissist or a psychopath sociopath. The brain, the
center of the brain that has empathy in it, is
actually much smaller in the brains that they've studied the
scans of a narcissist and associate path psychopath, and so
exactly what you said, they don't. They can fake empathy,
(07:13):
but it's very transactional. It's not oh my gosh, tell
me how you're feeling. Are you okay? What can I do?
It's oh, okay, well back to me, now, on to
what I need you to do. And they're very critical
of other people when other people have big feelings because
it makes them uncomfortable because they can't be bothered with
thinking of how other people feel, because they don't think
(07:35):
when they see other people. They don't think, wow, that
person is just like me. They think they're so much
better than anybody else, so they can't relate to other people.
So if somebody else has an emotion, it just becomes
an annoyance to the narcissist, and so they don't even
really attempt to connect on that level because they're not interested.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Okay, if you just tuned in, you're listening to doctor
Michelle Rich and you can find her online. And the
website is the website doctor Michelle dot com.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It is yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
All spelled out and it's m I, S H E.
L for Michelle Doctormichelle dot com. Now our time is
limited in the interview, so I want to make sure
that we get to the topic of your book. The
title of your book is Chasing Rescue Surviving Narcissistic Abuse,
And I want to ask you how do narcissists treat
(08:30):
their children? Because you can see a narcissist all the
way you've described narcissists, you could you can imagine them
abusing their children, but at the same time they may
see their children as an extension of their selves and
want to use the child to to increase their status.
(08:52):
Could you explain that how do narcissists treat their children?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It sounds like you've done your research yet.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well no, no, no, no research, just knowing other people
who I think have have been raised on narcissists.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, yes, and I feel like you know one of
the to kind of go on a little sibu tangent here.
One of the hardest things and one of the most
damaging things about people calling everyone a narcissist. It really
damages and downplays the impact that that true narcissists have
on their victims. And so we need to really better
(09:25):
understand narcissistic abuse because it is abuse. It actually is
trauma that changes the brain and it changes people's lives.
And so when we go, you know, to go to
having a parent as a narcissist, Narcissistic parents very much
see their children as an extension of themselves, and they
see they see their children as pawns to be able
(09:48):
to just utilize and use as tools to get what
they want and to reflect you know that, oh my gosh,
they're a great parent, or look at how successful my
child is, because it makes them look better. And oftentimes
what I see when I work with children of narcissists
is children don't recognize that that's what's actually happening. Because
(10:10):
when the parent doesn't show love and safety, security, attention
affection to the child, the child doesn't stop loving the parent.
The child stops loving themselves, and so they believe all
of these things that, oh my gosh, if my parent
doesn't care about me, and a parent is supposed to
love their child then conditionally then how unlovable must I be?
(10:31):
And so then they start to live a life based
on that and that narrative in their head, and the
narcissistic parent will be super terming to out in public
at school, functions, with friends in the neighborhood, and then
behind closed doors they become this monster and the child
(10:51):
then becomes even as adult children, they get gas lit
because everybody else who knows the narcissist sick parent on
like a service level, we'll say, oh my gosh, are
you sure your parent, like, they're so nice to me,
They're so funny. They always you know, you guys are
the They're the kool Aid mom or the kool Aid dad.
You guys have all the parties. They're so funny. They
(11:13):
always show up for PTO meetings, they're super successful in
the you know, in the community. They always let us
come over, and you know, they're just so fun and
funny and you know, full of life. And then the
child of the narcissist continues then to have that narrative of,
oh my gosh, it must be me because everybody else
seems to love my parents, and I'm the only one
(11:34):
that seems to have an issue with them, so what's
wrong with me? So that's really I always tell my
clients that have narcissistic parents that it's really the most
unfair relationship to be in for any human is to
have the parent that is a narcissist, because it affects
how you see the world. It affects how you and
(11:56):
how you interpret how the world sees you. It affects
how you see your self. It affects how confident you are,
how lovable you think you are. Because our parents, and
you know, those caregivers are our first lens into ourselves
and into the world, and narcissistic parents just eradicate any
positive things that that a child can have about themselves
(12:17):
and they, you know, they move on like it's no
big deal. Meanwhile, the child is there having to deal
with the trauma on the abuse.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So I'm going to assume that surviving narcissistic abuse and
your that's your book, Chasing Rescue, Surviving Narcissistic Abuse. The
abuse can come from a parent, or it could I'm
going to guess it could come from a spouse, someone
close like that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yes, it can come from anyone. It can come from
you know, friends, co workers, bosses, siblings, your own children,
and narcissists can really can be anyone. The most commonly
discussed role that narcissists are in tends to be what
(13:00):
tends to be talked about the most is when narcissists
are in the role of spouse, because those are the
people you know by the time you get to be
an adult and you see behind closed doors. Those are
where people are more able to see the behaviors of
the narcissists behind closed doors and actually feel like they
can talk about it and recognize it. And a child
(13:21):
growing up, it is often hard for the child to
recognize it that's what's going on, because again they blame themselves.
But also adult spouses blame themselves because behind closed doors
they kind of think the same thing, right, like, my
spouse is loved by everybody else, or nobody else seems
to have trouble with my spouse, or my spouse tells
me that I'm the you know the problem, and so
(13:43):
you know, you get conditioned over years and years and years,
even sometimes just months or even weeks. This conditioning can
happen to where it really starts to be something that
changes how we think about ourselves. And the narrative we
have going through our minds. And then the longer that happens,
the more we actually see the trauma change is actual
(14:05):
physical changes in the brain. And the more we start
to have what's what's called the trauma bond with the
other person, with the narcissist, and then we start to
lose ourselves and are the only voice in our head
then starts to become that voice of that critical narcissist.
But oftentimes what it has talked about most of the time,
if people are looking on you know, TikTok or YouTube
(14:27):
or Instagram or whatever, it's a lot of times it's
about with the narcissist being in that spouse role. But
it really can be any role, right.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So in our limited time, doctor Michelle, your book is
about surviving narcissistic abuse. What can you tell the listener
about surviving this? Tell us a little bit about what
is in your book that can help someone.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So the book is wonderful. It's written with my co
author Tommy McBain, and she writes very candidly about her
journey with getting away from her narcissistic spouse and how
she turned to turn to scripture and turned to God
and her face and also to taking better care of
(15:12):
herself to be able to heal after she you know,
it takes a while sometimes even recognize that you're in
this kind of abusive relationship, and so the book goes
through her story and then my part of the book
is about, you know, the clinical part of it where
talking about like what it looks like, kind of describing
the different the different angles of what it does to you,
(15:35):
and then different strategies that survivors, even if they're still
in a relationship, that survivors can use starting today to
help themselves start to heal and actually break free from
the trauma bonds the control the impacts of the trauma,
and so there's strategies in there, there's resources in the book. Tanya,
(15:58):
my co author, of course, talks about the things that
she did that helped her on her journey, and there
are different different parts of different chapters that go into
more in depth of like creating a safety plan to
make sure that when you leave, if you know, if
that's something that you want to do, that you can
leave in the safest way possible. And it walks through
(16:20):
how to create a safety plan and what should be
included in that there are different resources in there as
far as domestic violence related. And the biggest thing I
think that most people get wrong actually when trying to
heal after narcissistic abuse is they just try to keep
(16:41):
learning more and more and more about narcissism. And the
information is not what's going to change somebody's life and
heal them. It has to be transformation, which is taking
what you know that you need in your life. And
instead of looking externally at understanding the narcissist, the survivors
need to look internally and find out what they need instead,
(17:05):
and what we often need is we need to retrain
our nervous system to what safety actually feels like, because
one of the biggest things that narcissistic abuse does is
it puts our nervous system in this constant state of
fight or flight, and we don't know how to calm
down and feel safe anymore. And so until we're able
(17:25):
to reteach and have our nervous system relearn how to
be safe and what safe feels like, we're not going
to really fully be able to start healing and learning
just more information about what a narcissist might look like
or might do doesn't really help once you get to
a certain point. Of course, in the beginning, it's helpful
because you want to make you know, you want to validate.
Oh my gosh, yeah, that is really what I went through.
(17:47):
But then once you feel like you know enough, you
can only know, you know, you can only learn so much, right,
and then you've become saturated with just the same knowledge
over and over. And then the next step is then
taking that knowledge and look inward to see, Okay, what
has it done to me? What do I need to heal?
Do I need to be around just myself for a while.
(18:08):
Do I need to be you know, making sure I'm
just even eating right and drinking enough water during the day.
Do I need to find something that is soothing to me,
whether it's yoga or you know, going out with friends
is it? Do I need to journal? Do I need
to join a support group? Do I need to go
to therapy with somebody who actually understands narcissistic abuse and trauma?
(18:30):
And so it's really turning it inward to heal instead
of just looking outward to try to understand the person
standing in front of them.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
All right, we are out of time, doctor Michelle. So
Please tell the listener where they can find your book.
Where can they get a.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Copy, So you can get Chasing Rescue on online anywhere
books are sold, Amazon, of course, Barnes and Noble, Target, Walmart.
You can get it anywhere online anywhere books are sold.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Okay, so listener, it is called Chasing Rescues Surviving Narcissistic Abuse.
And doctor Michelle, your website is doctor. The word doctor
spelled out in Michelle m I S H E L.
Doctor Michelle dot com. Thank you, doctor.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Michelle correct, thank you so much. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
And I appreciate you listening to the Uncle Henry Show.
As they say in Sarahland, have a good one, and
as they say in Theodore, take it easy
Speaker 2 (19:26):
All right later
That says the Uncle Henry Show here on news radio
seventy ten WNTM. And in this half hour of show,
we're going to learn together about narcissism, yes, and about
surviving narcissistic abuse. We have a local author that we're
going to talk to who's written a book about narcissistic
(00:37):
abuse and surviving it. Her name is doctor Michelle Rich.
Well doctor, Now should I call you doctor Michelle or
doctor rich or doctor Michelle Rich.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Doctor Michelle is really what everybody knows me by.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, So doctor Michelle, thank you for talking to me
here on the Uncle Emery Show about your book. Before
we get into your book, how can people find you
on line?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So I am on all of the socials and you
can find me at doctor Michelle. And that's spelled out
so Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, it's spelled d O C T
O R M I S H E L. And then
I also have my website with information which is www
(01:22):
dot doctor Michelle, all spelled out dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Okay, So, doctor Michelle, your book is Chasing Rescue Surviving
Narcissistic Abuse, and I want this opportunity for me and
the radio listener to learn about narcissism because it's thrown
around now, it gets mentioned all the time, and I
don't know if people are substituting that for just a
(01:47):
rude person or something like that. So can you explain
to the listener and to me what is narcissism? What
is a narcissist?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So I love that that you're giving me this opportunity.
Need to do this because I agree with you. So
many people believe that narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder is
just basically it's become just what you what people start
calling someone they don't like, right, right, so they are
you know, oh someone's rude, they must be a narcissist.
(02:17):
Or someone talked about themselves, they must be a narcissist.
But actually, to be considered a narcissist, it's not just
about whether somebody is rude or somebody talks about themselves
a lot. It's not just a me monster like I
call them, you know, the people who love to talk
about themselves or love attention. It's really you need several
(02:40):
criteria and it's actually it's the person's way of being
in the world. So a narcissist is someone who has
this sense of grandiosity about themselves, and they think that
they're very self very like, they have a high level
of self importance. They think that they're the smartest person
in the room. They tend to exaggerate everything about themselves,
(03:03):
they minimize everything about other people. They tend to be
preoccupied with how successful and importance they are, and they
have this great need for admiration. And this isn't just
in a way that can be annoying to other people, right,
(03:24):
Like we've all been around those people who just talk
about themselves at a party and we're just you know,
people roll their eyes and walk away. These are people
who actually intend to do harm to other people. So
a narcissist is someone who is their behavior is actually
impacting others around them, whether it's at work, whether it's
(03:48):
in interpersonal relationships, because it's a pattern that has existed
basically their whole life, and it's just how they are
in the world. They are very inflexible about their beliefs,
they don't care about other people. They have very low,
if any empathy. They are always it's a it's it's
(04:13):
something that is always how they are. And a lot
of times the way that you can really tell if
somebody is a narcissist, is are they causing harm to
other people? And is this something where they can be
very charming on the outside, but behind closed doors they're
super different. And that's really one of the characteristics that
(04:33):
really will clue me in initially for someone is are
they super different behind closed doors than they are in public,
because it really, it really is something that's very damaging
to the people around them. Again, somebody can be annoying
and talk about themselves a lot, that's fine, that doesn't
necessarily harm other people. A narcissist behavior harms other people.
(04:57):
And they're all about how in control and image. So
a narcissist will do whatever they have to do to
keep up their image because they care more about what
the outside world that doesn't know them thinks about them
than they actually care about people who are close to them,
and so they're all about image and they will use
(05:17):
whatever it takes to keep power and control in someone
else's life. So it's basically a harmful set of personality
traits that exists across their lifespan that harms the other
people in their lives and actually impacts the narcissist as well.
Oftentimes they will lose jobs, they will lose relationships, but
(05:37):
they will always be blaming other people for that. They
will never take accountability for their actions, which is another
another kind of characteristic of a narcissist.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well, when you told me that one of the signs
that you would pick up on is acting differently in
public versus behind closed doors, the thing that tips me off.
And I'm only yes, I'm not trained like you are
or educated like you are. But the difference I've found
between narcissists and people who are just simply selfish and
(06:10):
really love themselves is the lack of empathy.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Thing.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I've encountered people that seem to not be able to
feel empathy or had to try and mimic it from
other people. Yes, is that a major component of this
is the inability to feel empathy for others and put
yourself in somebody else's shoes.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
That is a huge aspect of narcissism, because some narcissists
can sometimes feel empathy, but a narcissist doesn't actually have
Like when they've done brain science or brain studies they've done,
you know, the neuroscience behind it, They've actually found that
the area in the brain of a healthy person compared
(06:52):
to a narcissist or a psychopath sociopath. The brain, the
center of the brain that has empathy in it, is
actually much smaller in the brains that they've studied the
scans of a narcissist and associate path psychopath, and so
exactly what you said, they don't. They can fake empathy,
(07:13):
but it's very transactional. It's not oh my gosh, tell
me how you're feeling. Are you okay? What can I do?
It's oh, okay, well back to me, now, on to
what I need you to do. And they're very critical
of other people when other people have big feelings because
it makes them uncomfortable because they can't be bothered with
thinking of how other people feel, because they don't think
(07:35):
when they see other people. They don't think, wow, that
person is just like me. They think they're so much
better than anybody else, so they can't relate to other people.
So if somebody else has an emotion, it just becomes
an annoyance to the narcissist, and so they don't even
really attempt to connect on that level because they're not interested.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Okay, if you just tuned in, you're listening to doctor
Michelle Rich and you can find her online. And the
website is the website doctor Michelle dot com.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It is yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
All spelled out and it's m I, S H E.
L for Michelle Doctormichelle dot com. Now our time is
limited in the interview, so I want to make sure
that we get to the topic of your book. The
title of your book is Chasing Rescue Surviving Narcissistic Abuse,
And I want to ask you how do narcissists treat
(08:30):
their children? Because you can see a narcissist all the
way you've described narcissists, you could you can imagine them
abusing their children, but at the same time they may
see their children as an extension of their selves and
want to use the child to to increase their status.
(08:52):
Could you explain that how do narcissists treat their children?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It sounds like you've done your research yet.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well no, no, no, no research, just knowing other people
who I think have have been raised on narcissists.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, yes, and I feel like you know one of
the to kind of go on a little sibu tangent here.
One of the hardest things and one of the most
damaging things about people calling everyone a narcissist. It really
damages and downplays the impact that that true narcissists have
on their victims. And so we need to really better
(09:25):
understand narcissistic abuse because it is abuse. It actually is
trauma that changes the brain and it changes people's lives.
And so when we go, you know, to go to
having a parent as a narcissist, Narcissistic parents very much
see their children as an extension of themselves, and they
see they see their children as pawns to be able
(09:48):
to just utilize and use as tools to get what
they want and to reflect you know that, oh my gosh,
they're a great parent, or look at how successful my
child is, because it makes them look better. And oftentimes
what I see when I work with children of narcissists
is children don't recognize that that's what's actually happening. Because
(10:10):
when the parent doesn't show love and safety, security, attention
affection to the child, the child doesn't stop loving the parent.
The child stops loving themselves, and so they believe all
of these things that, oh my gosh, if my parent
doesn't care about me, and a parent is supposed to
love their child then conditionally then how unlovable must I be?
(10:31):
And so then they start to live a life based
on that and that narrative in their head, and the
narcissistic parent will be super terming to out in public
at school, functions, with friends in the neighborhood, and then
behind closed doors they become this monster and the child
(10:51):
then becomes even as adult children, they get gas lit
because everybody else who knows the narcissist sick parent on
like a service level, we'll say, oh my gosh, are
you sure your parent, like, they're so nice to me,
They're so funny. They always you know, you guys are
the They're the kool Aid mom or the kool Aid dad.
You guys have all the parties. They're so funny. They
(11:13):
always show up for PTO meetings, they're super successful in
the you know, in the community. They always let us
come over, and you know, they're just so fun and
funny and you know, full of life. And then the
child of the narcissist continues then to have that narrative of,
oh my gosh, it must be me because everybody else
seems to love my parents, and I'm the only one
(11:34):
that seems to have an issue with them, so what's
wrong with me? So that's really I always tell my
clients that have narcissistic parents that it's really the most
unfair relationship to be in for any human is to
have the parent that is a narcissist, because it affects
how you see the world. It affects how you and
(11:56):
how you interpret how the world sees you. It affects
how you see your self. It affects how confident you are,
how lovable you think you are. Because our parents, and
you know, those caregivers are our first lens into ourselves
and into the world, and narcissistic parents just eradicate any
positive things that that a child can have about themselves
(12:17):
and they, you know, they move on like it's no
big deal. Meanwhile, the child is there having to deal
with the trauma on the abuse.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So I'm going to assume that surviving narcissistic abuse and
your that's your book, Chasing Rescue, Surviving Narcissistic Abuse. The
abuse can come from a parent, or it could I'm
going to guess it could come from a spouse, someone
close like that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yes, it can come from anyone. It can come from
you know, friends, co workers, bosses, siblings, your own children,
and narcissists can really can be anyone. The most commonly
discussed role that narcissists are in tends to be what
(13:00):
tends to be talked about the most is when narcissists
are in the role of spouse, because those are the
people you know by the time you get to be
an adult and you see behind closed doors. Those are
where people are more able to see the behaviors of
the narcissists behind closed doors and actually feel like they
can talk about it and recognize it. And a child
(13:21):
growing up, it is often hard for the child to
recognize it that's what's going on, because again they blame themselves.
But also adult spouses blame themselves because behind closed doors
they kind of think the same thing, right, like, my
spouse is loved by everybody else, or nobody else seems
to have trouble with my spouse, or my spouse tells
me that I'm the you know the problem, and so
(13:43):
you know, you get conditioned over years and years and years,
even sometimes just months or even weeks. This conditioning can
happen to where it really starts to be something that
changes how we think about ourselves. And the narrative we
have going through our minds. And then the longer that happens,
the more we actually see the trauma change is actual
(14:05):
physical changes in the brain. And the more we start
to have what's what's called the trauma bond with the
other person, with the narcissist, and then we start to
lose ourselves and are the only voice in our head
then starts to become that voice of that critical narcissist.
But oftentimes what it has talked about most of the time,
if people are looking on you know, TikTok or YouTube
(14:27):
or Instagram or whatever, it's a lot of times it's
about with the narcissist being in that spouse role. But
it really can be any role, right.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So in our limited time, doctor Michelle, your book is
about surviving narcissistic abuse. What can you tell the listener
about surviving this? Tell us a little bit about what
is in your book that can help someone.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So the book is wonderful. It's written with my co
author Tommy McBain, and she writes very candidly about her
journey with getting away from her narcissistic spouse and how
she turned to turn to scripture and turned to God
and her face and also to taking better care of
(15:12):
herself to be able to heal after she you know,
it takes a while sometimes even recognize that you're in
this kind of abusive relationship, and so the book goes
through her story and then my part of the book
is about, you know, the clinical part of it where
talking about like what it looks like, kind of describing
the different the different angles of what it does to you,
(15:35):
and then different strategies that survivors, even if they're still
in a relationship, that survivors can use starting today to
help themselves start to heal and actually break free from
the trauma bonds the control the impacts of the trauma,
and so there's strategies in there, there's resources in the book. Tanya,
(15:58):
my co author, of course, talks about the things that
she did that helped her on her journey, and there
are different different parts of different chapters that go into
more in depth of like creating a safety plan to
make sure that when you leave, if you know, if
that's something that you want to do, that you can
leave in the safest way possible. And it walks through
(16:20):
how to create a safety plan and what should be
included in that there are different resources in there as
far as domestic violence related. And the biggest thing I
think that most people get wrong actually when trying to
heal after narcissistic abuse is they just try to keep
(16:41):
learning more and more and more about narcissism. And the
information is not what's going to change somebody's life and
heal them. It has to be transformation, which is taking
what you know that you need in your life. And
instead of looking externally at understanding the narcissist, the survivors
need to look internally and find out what they need instead,
(17:05):
and what we often need is we need to retrain
our nervous system to what safety actually feels like, because
one of the biggest things that narcissistic abuse does is
it puts our nervous system in this constant state of
fight or flight, and we don't know how to calm
down and feel safe anymore. And so until we're able
(17:25):
to reteach and have our nervous system relearn how to
be safe and what safe feels like, we're not going
to really fully be able to start healing and learning
just more information about what a narcissist might look like
or might do doesn't really help once you get to
a certain point. Of course, in the beginning, it's helpful
because you want to make you know, you want to validate.
Oh my gosh, yeah, that is really what I went through.
(17:47):
But then once you feel like you know enough, you
can only know, you know, you can only learn so much, right,
and then you've become saturated with just the same knowledge
over and over. And then the next step is then
taking that knowledge and look inward to see, Okay, what
has it done to me? What do I need to heal?
Do I need to be around just myself for a while.
(18:08):
Do I need to be you know, making sure I'm
just even eating right and drinking enough water during the day.
Do I need to find something that is soothing to me,
whether it's yoga or you know, going out with friends
is it? Do I need to journal? Do I need
to join a support group? Do I need to go
to therapy with somebody who actually understands narcissistic abuse and trauma?
(18:30):
And so it's really turning it inward to heal instead
of just looking outward to try to understand the person
standing in front of them.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
All right, we are out of time, doctor Michelle. So
Please tell the listener where they can find your book.
Where can they get a.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Copy, So you can get Chasing Rescue on online anywhere
books are sold, Amazon, of course, Barnes and Noble, Target, Walmart.
You can get it anywhere online anywhere books are sold.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Okay, so listener, it is called Chasing Rescues Surviving Narcissistic Abuse.
And doctor Michelle, your website is doctor. The word doctor
spelled out in Michelle m I S H E L.
Doctor Michelle dot com. Thank you, doctor.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Michelle correct, thank you so much. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
And I appreciate you listening to the Uncle Henry Show.
As they say in Sarahland, have a good one, and
as they say in Theodore, take it easy
Speaker 2 (19:26):
All right later
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