AFP - Greg Landsman and House Bill 503

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Our power coming up the beginning at eight h five
with Congressman Thomas Massey, and we'll talk a little Epstein
files among other topics with Massi. One hour from now,
Judge n of Poulaitano and what the founders feared. We'll
hear from g Van Fleet, author of Maus America. She
fled the Chinese Communist Party and says we got a
real problem on our hands brewing here in the United

(00:23):
States of America, based upon her life experiences. That'll be
at eight to forty five with an empower you Summinar
tonight at seven pm log in from home. It's going
to be a fascinating conversation without further ado, always a
fascinating conversation, and appreciate what Americans for Prosperity does each
and every day helping you get involved. Every little bit counts,
so nobody knows that more than Donovan and Neil. Welcome back,
my friend. It's always great having you on the program

(00:44):
this time of week, Brian.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Always a pleasure to be with you midweek.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thanks for having me and I didn't realize that this
double taxation thing was actually going on. My impression has
been has always been and obviously needs to be corrected
that if I work, like here in the city of Cincinnati,
charge you in income tax, but if my local municipality
was also charging a tax, because I would be getting
taxed in both municipalities, that I would be able to

(01:09):
write off or reduce my local level taxation based upon
what I paid in the city. That's kind of normal,
isn't it, Donovan? Or isn't it Why do we need
House Bill five oh three?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, it was normal up until it seems like recent
last couple of years, maybe a couple months, what we're finding, right, Yeah,
you're right, you work in a city. The norm here
in Ohio has been at the city you work in
is the place where you pay your income tax, right,
and then the community you live in or if you
also live in a city, they oftentimes will give you
a reciprocal credit, and most of the time those would

(01:45):
even out.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
So if it was a two percent income tax and
the time you worked in and a two percent in
the time you lived in, you'd only paid two percent
of your income for municipal services. But cities were not
bound to that, and so what they found the bill
sponsors Rome or Heidi Workmen have found is that they
have constituents reaching out saying that their taxes are going up,

(02:05):
and their cities, their councils are voting to increase. Remove
that reciprocity, I should say, And so you're finding a
situation where Ohioans who work in one town live in
another are being double taxed. To the point, Brian, because
we're now a flat tax state at two point seventy
five percent, people are paying more in local municipal income

(02:26):
taxes than they are to the state of Ohio for services.
It's ludicrous, and House both five H three stops that practice.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Puts the brakes on it.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Puts the brakes on it. We'll talk about the details
in that in just a minute. But did this spring
from COVID. I know, we had a real problem with
the City of Cincinnati. They continue to withhold taxes from
folks who were working at home, working at home not
within the City of Cincinnati limits, which meant under the
prior structure, or at least I mean even the then
existing structure, that the city was not allowed to collect

(02:55):
those taxes even though it continued to do so while
people were working at home. Problem for me, I mean
ethically I thought that was wrong, But I don't know
whether the city ultimately had to refund the taxes they
took out, but that was inconsistent with with that law.
Did did municipalities change this taxation structure to the point

(03:16):
where we need House fill five o three to deal
with it because of that type of situation with COVID?

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, I think what I've understood from reading from bill
sponsor or opponents of this legislation is that cities are
feeling the pinch. They feel like they need more funds,
and they are, you know, they're using this tactic as
a way to raise tack, to collect more tax revenue
without having to go to the voters and ask for it.

(03:41):
So I think that's the largest drivers They're saying, where
can we get more money from our citizens? Well, we're
gonna we're gonna remove this reciprocity credit so that we
can you know, get that get those moneys from them.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
There's never enough, is there, Donovan? There's just never never enough? Well, pause,
we'll bring back, bring back Donovan talk about the details
on this and which I think, as my understand the
House bill, it'll give you a say and whether or
not you want that to happen. Question, We do vote
for a higher income tax k SE detalk station Brian
Thomas with Americans for Prosperities, Donald and Hil segment. We

(04:14):
do every week. They are really working hard for Ohio.
And the bottom line is the bottom line on this one.
HB five oh three. If a city wants a double
tax you, they got to ask you first. And this
of course springs from the reality of it. And I
did not realize and according to your notes, and I
know AFP is always right on these things. Ohio has
some of the highest municipal income tax rates in the

(04:35):
entire country, the sixth most, sixth most local taxing jurisdictions,
and of course, eliminating reciprocity, meaning your local jurisdiction can
charge you income tax along with the city where you work.
That's going to really increase your taxes. And of course
that's happening to people right now. Now. House Bill five
oh three provides some relief on this. Now is this

(04:55):
unusual requiring voter approval for reciprocity, because that's what this
calls for if they want to, if they want to
take away reciprocity waivers, and we at least get a
say over it where we live.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Well, I don't think that's necessarily required right now. I'm
sure a city could if they wanted to write be
good governance, put that in front of their voters and
give them the choice. But right now they can do
that unilaterally. This bill would require that they go to
the citizens, as well as give the citizens an ability
to go out circulate a petition and change that reciprocity

(05:30):
rate themselves if their council is unwilling to do so.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Okay, I understand the petition idea. We've seen that quite
a bit lately. But I'm wondering whether there would there
be a legal challenge to this, Like, is this violating
some sort of home rule right that municipalities have to
set their own tax rates? Is this going to be
ultimately challenged in court? I don't know that you necessarily

(05:54):
know that, but I understand how municipalities might find this
to be a rather touchy subject.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, I'm not quite sure exactly what the legal challenges
might get presented there, But I think at the end
of the day, right we want to be putting right now,
from property taxes to income taxes, the balance of power
exists with the bureaucrats with the governments, right, and what
bills like this and many of the bills that'll be

(06:22):
passed later today on property tax reform. What these bills
do is put the tax payer, the citizen, back in
the driver's seat of having final stay on their local taxation.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
And I think that's the important part here. You said
the property x former bills are going to pass today.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
That's hopeful fingers crossed, Brian, I hope I don't jinx it.
But there are four bills that the Senate I've already
been passed out the House, the Senate committee has and
the ideas they've been vetted, They've been heard opponents, proponents,
interested parties alike, and the goal I think we'll see
if it happens this afternoon through one of these marathon session,

(07:00):
they can move these bills to the governor's desk.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
What of House Bill five O three in terms of
its passage or in terms of your tea leaf predicting
on whether or not this has the support to pass.
I would imagine that it would enjoy bipartisan support. But
then again, we're talking about the state of Ohio and Columbus.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Well, yeah, municipalities have been tricked. I mean any local
government because we have the sixth most political subdivisions in
the country, right, cities, townships, villages, schools, counties, special districts, Brian,
you name them. They get a slice of your pocketbook
and wallet every month. The likelihood of this passing, I
think is pretty good. We're still early phase. We're going
in as proponents today for the third hearing supporting this legislation.

(07:46):
Chairman Bill Romer is really effective at what he does.
He's why he's somebody AFP has long time supported and
still alongside fights for the taxpayers. We'll see what happens,
but I think this is an important one. It's got
to be pretty universally accepted Ry Brian that if Yeah,
the voters should have the final say on their taxes,
especially at a local level.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, it's as a matter of fairness as well. I
just when you when you start considering where you might
live and work, I mean, people might factor this into
the equation. If you're going to get tax where you
live and tax where you work, you might gravitate away
from even entering into that possibility.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, you know Southwest Ohio better than me, but you
know you could I looked at the rates, you could
live in the city of Norwood. That'd be a reasonable
place to live in southwest Ohio, right, Norwood, all right.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
And work in the st It is still somewhat affordable.
I think that's like your next Oakley or you know, which,
which used to be kind of like Norwood in terms
of perception. Now it's more like Hyde Park, which is
a very affluent neighborhood. You know, give it time, all
the neighborhoods, we'll transform into something rather than I've always
had real positive hope for Norwood as one of those
neighborhoods who is just going to continue to be more

(08:54):
and more successful and affluent. But I could have it wrong.
But my point is.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
You could live in Norwood, work in Cincinnati, and you're
gonna pay right now three point eight percent. Now, they
may the reciprocity credit in those in Norwood may already
be in place. So I don't want your listeners to
go with pitchforks and torches to city Hall. But if
this bill doesn't pass and the City of Norwood would
remove any reciprocity credits it may or may not provide

(09:21):
right now, you could realistically pay living in that city.
Working in Cincinnati, three point eight percent of your income
just to local municipalities.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Both where you live and work.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's far less than the two point seven percent you're
going to pay to the state, and h just seems
unreasonable in many ways.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
I couldn't agree with you more. Donovan and Neil rarely
have a disagreement with you. Sir, Hey, real quick, I
don't want to put you on the spot. The property
tax reform bills that we're going to see today, let's
assume they pass real quick. What kind of relief is
this going to provide us, Donovan, if if you don't
mind recapping that before we before we part company this morning.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah. So, in short, one of the things that's going
to do is provide more local control by empowering these
county budget commissions to look at unnecessary or excessive and
they define what unnecessary and excessive is in the bill,
so that if you have a local political subdivision that's
just pulling too much money in this county budget commission

(10:17):
can be a check and balance on behalf of the
taxpayer to say you don't actually need that new tax revenue,
how about you give it back to your constituents. So
that's a direct relief that folks will receive. The other
piece that I think is key here is the unvoted
tax increases. They're capping those to inflation. And that's where
you see right where property valuations with what twenty thirty
forty percent and the local subdivisions would be able to

(10:40):
enjoy all of that increase in revenue without any vote
by the taxpayer. They're going to cap that to inflation
so that we don't see these massive spikes like we
saw coming out of the COVID years.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Ever, again, it's.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
The most significant property tax reform in the last since
the nineteen seventies. And there's another piece where they're going
to believe they will will provide a credit based on
updated valuations, so there's some money that will also go
back into people's pockets. So structurally changing the system as
well as giving some folks some relief across the state of.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Awios steps in the right direction. Obviously an effort because
it's needed, but also in an effort to maybe head
off eradication of property tax a petition that's circulating. They
do need to get ahead of that. Do you expect
more property tax reform between now and sometime before next
year's election. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
I mean this stuff they're doing is pretty significant and
it tackles a lot of the things that the governor
had vetoed. We could have been crazy. Thing is, Brian,
we could have been already had this done back in
the summer.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
But here we are.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
It's going to get done today, we hope. Well, yeah,
and I think there's going to need to be more
on this issue. I think we'll get through this sort
of see where the opportunities lie. But from municipal tax
collection to property taxes. Our problem at the heart of
this all, Brian, is the amount of government we have
at that local level. It's burdensome, it's holding people back,

(12:02):
and it's robbing our pocketbooks, starving our pocketbooks.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Understand. We had a conversation about that not too long ago.
Within the last week or two, Donald and NEI Americans
for Prosperity Call to Action planned. We need people to
get in touch with their elected officials to tell them
to push forward with HB five thirty or five oh
three rather Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yep, HB five oh three. Go to Buckeye Blueprint dot
com sign up if you want to join us take action.
You can join a chapter. Will we bring it folks
to the Statehouse on issues like this, and we'd love
to have your listeners take part in it.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Don Renio, thank you so much for making it easy
for our listeners to get engaged and involved in keeping
us up to speed on what's going on legislatively and Columbus.
I appreciate all that. I appreciate you coming on the
show every week. I'll look forward to next week with
another update.