January 9, 2025 • 24 mins
Award-winning Documentary Filmmaker Adam Schomer discusses his new docu-series, "Selling Superman," -- currently available to stream on Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV, Google Play, and YouTube.l
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This groundbreaking docu-series follows a man's mental health journey as he inherits over 300,000 comics, including a rare $3M Superman #1. Beneath the surface, the story reveals the burden of perfectionism, family secrets, and the transformative struggle to find self-worth in the shadow of a shocking inheritance.
You can monetarily support The Jan Price Show by becoming a patron and making a tax-deductible donation to The Jan Price Show. For an even larger impact, sign up for a monthly recurring donation! Click on the link below for the details: https://creative-visions.networkforgood.com/projects/236266-the-jan-price-show-s-fundraiser
We are on Bluesky! Click here to follow us: https://bsky.app/profile/thejanpriceshow.bsky.social
This groundbreaking docu-series follows a man's mental health journey as he inherits over 300,000 comics, including a rare $3M Superman #1. Beneath the surface, the story reveals the burden of perfectionism, family secrets, and the transformative struggle to find self-worth in the shadow of a shocking inheritance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Jam Brice Show, All about Movies.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
You're listening to The Jam Price Show, All about Movies,
and today my guest is award winning documentary filmmaker Adam Schomer,
and we're going to talk about this really fascinating documentary
entitled Selling Superman.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Welcome to the show, Adam.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thanks Jim, it is interesting. Thanks for having me on
the show.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Well, you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is a four part documentary and there's a lot
to it. To put that have four parts to a documentary,
there's obviously a lot to it. So I just want
our audience to know when we get before we get started,
what Selling Superman is all about, and then we'll go
into it at a more deep level.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, the hook, the premise, right, what got me was
that there's this forty year family secret, which itself you know,
who keeps a secret for forty years? But it's a
hidden comic book collection three hundred thousand comics and ends
up Superman number one is part of it from nineteen
thirty nine, and that book itself worth in the grate
it is probably three four million dollars. And then the
(01:00):
question becomes, you know, would you sell it? And as
we look into that would you sell. We start to unbox,
you know, metaphorically and figure real. We unbox all the comics,
the family portrait, and a lot of the trauma and
pain that the comic book collection costs. So that might
skew you know, would you keep this heirloom that has
a lot of pain around it? And it makes it unravels?
(01:21):
As a documentary filmmaker, it unraveled as we were making it,
and I got to know the family more and more,
and things just kept happening.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
How did this documentary come about?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I knew Darren, Darren's the main character. I knew him
in high school, so I actually knew his father and
the family. We played soccer together. I was a couple
of years older. Didn't know, you know, that his dad
A had Aspergers, which now is on the ASD autism spectrum.
I did not know his dad was had five rooms
full of comics under sheets and boxes. Darren kept it
a secret, as did the family. And so years later
(01:49):
we're adults. We had been in touch about other business
stuff and then he just he told me, he goes
by the way. I know you make documentaries and I
trust you now, but you know, would this be a
good story. This is what's going on. This is about
a year after his father passed, and I said, well,
let me come, let me come visit. You all see
the old house before it sells. That becomes episode A
lot of Episode one in the old home where you
see the marks and the carpet and vera ta style.
(02:11):
Me just really with Darren, his mom and his brother
recounting some of the collection and the old home history.
Once I saw them on camera and experienced it for myself,
the old house and the level of hoarding, I was like, wow,
this is this is something else, and it just fascinated me,
maybe like your audience, like, how can a comic book
be three million dollars? How do we get to that
(02:34):
point in life?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It's amazing, really is amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I mean, but the fact that they had well over
three hundred thousand comic books that summit, you know, never
been opened really or touched. You know that he collected
that his sons didn't really know either, correct, They didn't
know an idea.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Oh yeah, they didn't know what was in the collection,
but they knew obviously it was happening. They knew his
father had a Superman one. They hadn't and they didn't
know the level of which and his father really didn't
know how good the Superman one was because he never
got it created by the authorities. It was too paranoid.
But yeah, so they knew. I mean, when your whole
basement's a fill of boxes and covered with a sheet,
you know something's in there. When two other rooms are
(03:13):
the same, you know, And when your father's saying, don't
tell anybody about the collection. What collection? Yeah, exactly, the
collection does not exist. So they knew it was there,
but they didn't know what was in it because he
never yeh, like you said, he never really opened them
and read them with the kids. And because of that,
they're in pristine condition, which makes it a world class collection.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You go through a lot of layers in this film,
as far as psychologically the relationship of the two sons
with their father. We see you interview their father's former wife,
their mother in this documentary and why their marriage ended.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
But their pain.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
There was a lot of pain involved with this, which
is very go into this, youd think, no, we're going
to have, you know, a documentary that's you know, then
you get into family drama and psychological pain and emotional
pain talk about that, because I'm sure when you started
this that wasn't.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
A thought that you were going to go in that direction.
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah. I was more in the direction of how do
we get to this level of value? Value interests me
a lot, meaning interests me a lot. Why society places
so much on heroes. Why a comic book, even if
rare would be three million dollars, it still doesn't compute
with me. And I really was interested in who are
the people that would pay it? Who are the people
that are so into Superman that would put that kind
(04:29):
of money. It's a lot of investment. Turns out a
lot of those people don't even want to be known,
you know that that would spend the money on that.
So yet, so it shifted from that to then as
I saw more and learn more about my friend's family
and his mom and the divorce and why she divorced him,
to understanding like, wow, this collection was really a totem,
(04:50):
if you will, of the greater problems that were happening
in the family of paying more attention to the books,
or hoarding and one's obsession and fix station than realizing
like your family's having issues here or neglecting the emotions
of the family, and that can happen, you know, with
the condition of Asperger, it's harder to recognize emotion when
(05:11):
someone's maybe uncomfortable. But his diagnosis went largely undiagnosed for
a lot of their childhood, and even when he did
more or less told that he had the diagnosis, he
kind of sleft it off. You know, everyone else is
a little crazy, so that that can be off putting
too to the family, Like, you know there's an issue,
but you're not really willing to improve on yourself. Everyone's
telling you know, everyone else is crazy, not you when
(05:32):
you know. In episode three, Darren recounts that I think
it was episode three, I should know, but that when
his mother, when they got divorced, she goes into the
bank and the bank tellers congratulated her right and to
that level where like strangers are congratulating because they knew
how difficult of a person he was, and he was
verbally incredibly acute, very smart man. It could argue to
(05:52):
to death, so to speak. I know that, you know,
getting back to the psychological part in train Darin to
be very smart, to be very very over prepared, but
also knowing like, father's a perfectionist. I got to be
over prepared. It's a little bit stressful. I'm not getting
the love and appreciation. It's all about achievement. Those things
start to wire in and I think it's very clear
(06:13):
that that's the case, and a lot of us can
relate to that and relate to the stress that comes
with that constant way of thought instead of really like
maybe just appreciating yourself or your flaws and being a
little kinder to yourself. And it's hard when you're not
given that model from your parents. So it becomes i think,
pretty apparent and no pun intended to conditioning, but to
the depths of it. We get to keep on unboxing
(06:35):
it and thank thank you to Darren and his family
for letting us in. It's not a comfortable place. As
you know, the film Fault starts off with them not
really wanting.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
To do it exactly and thought it was a very
successful attorney and you know, very successful. So you're right
when you know, thank you for verbally was very acute
and you know, right in there. But he also used
that same kind of what he used in the courtroom.
It appears that he used with his also to criticize them,
and especially Darren's the oldest, and Darren always felt inadequate,
(07:06):
and also he didn't feel like he really had a
relationship with his father. I don't think that's unusual with
a particular generation. I think there are many many fathers
of a certain of a certain period who were never
really taught, you know, how to be a parent, you know,
how to be emotional, how to connect with with your
children necessarily, and so their their job was the bread winner.
(07:27):
You go out make the money, and you know, then
the rest is just going to be fine. And and
what happened is the next generation that the children of
that generation became generally, you know, more a better parent,
you know, wanting to be better parents to their children.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And that's the case with Darren and his children.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You know how he relates to them and how he
wants to relate to them, because he definitely doesn't want
to be like his father was. But here you go,
you have a relationship with your father that's very estranged,
you know, you weren't particularly close. Then he dies, and
then you discover this treasure troves of comic books that
are worth millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
One as you stated, is worth close to four million
dollars just one two for five or four million dollars
for one comic, and he has over three hundred thousand,
and now what do with them?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And Darren obviously is very, very, very smart. His father
put it down, he didn't complete college, which you know,
I don't believe everybody should go to college. But he
went on his own and brilliant and formed his own
career and was highly successful and had his own money.
So now he's now got to the possibility even making
more money. But what the dilemma is, what do you
(08:38):
do with it? Do you really want to sell it?
Do you want to keep it? Is it a keepsake
with all of the ins and outs? So that's the
intrigue of this documentary. Do you want to comment a
little bit more about that, because it really is underneath
it all, you know, the foundation of this film is
the emotional impact of keeping or not keeping?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
What do you do? And how do you do it?
That's the other thing. How do you do.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, that's like a big you know in the film world,
a big act too. How do you go about when
you've made a decision? But yet, yeah, it's much more
interesting than a lottery or treasure documentary, you know, or
even like a spelling bead leading up to the end
of you know, all the characters coming together. This is
more has more depth and conflict to it because it's
it is a gray space. It is a family heirloom.
(09:24):
What would Okay, most of us say, we'd be like, yes,
sell and use it for something you love. Okay, cool,
me too, yeah, And in fact, but then it's like, oh,
it's my father's favorite character, and it's something my father
obsessed on. Okay, it's a family heirloom, all right, And
it's a pop culture airlom in. You know, it's a
top three in the world of Superman number one. So
this is crazy that a film my lap as a
documentary filmmaker, it's my friend. And then you go, but
(09:46):
that same heirloom is the source of so much pain?
Why would you want to keep that around you? And
then and then the heroic I would the stronger, more
challenging thing to do is say, well, can I rewrite
that story? Can I change this heirloom into something good?
Bring my friends in and take a journey and partner
with people and make it kind of what I wish
I would have had with my dad. You know that
that to me is that it's something worth watching. Let's
(10:08):
take on that mantle or take on the ring. As
you know, I create it to the ring and the
lord of the rings? Can you turn it to good?
And I think that's a real challenge that Darren took
because he's, well, he's an integral guy. He's a carrying guy,
he's a smart guy and doesn't want to just give
it all to someone without having looked through it himself
(10:29):
and made decisions and get him to know it. And
he's smart and he wants to understand things. I think
that's a real big part of it and would love
to see I think the personal connection of the books
getting in the right hands. And of course people are
going to you know, you're going to learn along the way.
But it's hard for someone that's kind of in the
perfection model to recognize and just make some mistakes along
(10:49):
the way because we're no one's really done it before,
you know, right, There's been collections, but not in this way.
And so you know, kudos to Darren for letting us
watch his process that act to of how do you
do it? Because he did decide I want these to
get in the right hands. I'm not just gonna sell
it off for eight million, even though it could be
(11:10):
worth twenty, you know, and just take the money and
run out. I want to do something cool with it.
And along the way it becomes very challenging, becomes really
you're not only the emotions, but then having a camera
on you while you're going through your emotions, and then
you know people Comic book World, as one of the
guys says in the film, Chuck Rozanski, the owner of
Mile High Comics, the biggest store in the world, says,
(11:32):
you know, it's full contact capitalism. You know, it's great
and people are nice, and it's a wonderful hobby, but
it's also full contact capitalism, and you better have your
eyes wide open, he said, because people will come for
you and they'll try and take advantage. So, you know,
kudos to Darren for going for it. I think there's
a to me, it's a pilgrimage. He chose to go
(11:54):
on a pilgrimage. Whether or not he knows it or not,
you know, he making that choice to do the right
thing with it puts in action a lot of other
things to unfold and a lot of challenges to happen
and force one to look deep within, or you just
sell the whole thing walk away and you never have
to really deal with it, which maybe in retrospect he
might have wished to see would have done, because it
(12:15):
is still really challenging on him, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
How many just keep that.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I don't know the exact number, but he a lot.
Most of the best stuff is still there, but they're
definitely selling, and they've sold, and they've moved a lot
through dealers, small dealers and more regional dealers and even
have their own website now where they you know, they
do sell the collection parts of it. But I was
(12:43):
just talking to him yesterday on the comic book side
and some of the real nicest copies of the biggest books,
the Keys as they would call it, the Key Books,
still has all of those. So there's millions and millions
of dollars not yet actualized.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Has Superman one?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
He does? He does? You know? Spoil spoiler alert, spoiler
alert to everyone. You know what, I don't think it.
I don't think it. You know, it is the big
hook of the series. Would you sell it or not?
But it ends up becoming less important by the end
and more like why you're doing what you're doing, So
I don't feel like it ruins it. But there is
a big sale in the series, as you know, of
(13:23):
a big book, and it causes a lot of issues,
and part of that I think informs him of why
in the at least in the end of the movie
he didn't sell Superman. It might happen in the next months.
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
You start off this film and a number of the
different chapters with this text messaging back in between you
and Darren, and he is constantly saying, I wish I
didn't do this documentary basically, I mean, I'll just spoil
it down in the conversation. Can that go throughout the
(13:58):
entire document if you pass that, you know it started
reading that he was doing this.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
It started at the exact moment that we The film
starts with that, just so people know. It starts with that.
We're hearing press coming about because he's selling a big book,
and so press and the internet starts picking it up.
We had already been filming for almost a year, about
a year at that point, and then this big sale happens,
(14:27):
and it was at that point, and I even turned
to my camera and I'm like, it was a great shoot,
but we don't really have an ending. But I think
the universe knows better than us what the ending will be.
And thirty seconds later Darren text me what you see,
like stop the press? What is And so I'm like,
ha ha. He's like, you think I'm kidding and then
went on to say everything on the phone that you
hear about wanting to get out of this is why
am I showing the world how messed up I am.
(14:48):
So from that point on, so that's about a year
into shooting, there was kind of a lot of back
and forth of wait, what did I get myself into?
And we were really pretty far in in that point.
It was hard to turn hard to turn back. And thankfully,
as you see, you know, Darren's dealing with a lot
of trolls and people coming at him and saying bad
(15:10):
stuff and and has to fight through that and understand
why is he really doing what he's doing. So it
was tough throughout the prible it's still kind of ongoing,
to be honest, it doesn't exactly resolve. It's not like
he's like, oh no, I'm happy. We did the film.
It's still difficult because people are still Yeah, I just
(15:30):
want to say, like maybe I'm sure people realize it,
but it can be tough if you're the guy in
the film. People might think this is your life, that
that three hours, you know, those four forty five minute pieces,
that's your whole life, and even furthermore that even around
this one moment in life, that that's everything that happened,
and it's not. You know, we have hundreds of hours
(15:51):
of footage and many angles we could have taken, and
you share what you can share, and I share what
I think's interesting, but that can be tough for the person.
One thing we did do, of course, just you know,
as we're not exploitive as documentary filmmakers, at least myself,
I'm not. I can't speak to every reality show that is,
(16:11):
but we make sure like we review things with the subject,
with the character and say is this too much? Are
we pushing too far? You can tell us if something's
too sensitive for the family. So it's not like they
have any creative control, but they have the right to
say i'd rather us not talk about that. That's too hard.
You have to be like that nowadays because people are humans,
(16:35):
you know, They're not just for our entertainment. It's just
not how it is.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So, you know, Adam, it was surprising how many people,
you know, the trolls and what they had to say negative.
I mean, this is what's going on in social media,
as we all know, but it was surprising and chocking
to see this kind of environment, how many people were
so negative about about darn and what he was.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Doing in his family, and is like.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
That is you know, I think that's that's my own personal.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I agree, it's kind of it's kind of disgusting. People
just love to haul off without having seen the film.
People were doing that seen a trailer and him selling
one book. You know, that becomes again in the beginning
of the film. We've come back to an end of
episode three and beginning of episode four. It is it's amazing,
with such little knowledge, how people are so dogmatic about things.
(17:32):
Really fascinating to watch it was, It really was.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
It was interesting to see that for sure. How many months,
how many years? How long did it take you to
make this document?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, from the moment I first went to test shoot,
so to speak, on that Thanksgiving, which became a lot
of episode one that was November twenty one, so to
let's say November twenty four, that's three years until release. Now,
you know, from that first shoot, we weren't full on shooting.
We were just picking up some zooms and audio calls
along the way. And then in May of twenty two
(18:04):
we really started filming, and I would say about a
year of shooting till May of twenty three, and then
a year of post to May of twenty four. While
we were also during post, you're still following what's going on,
because that's the kind of docs I like, where we're
following it. It's not a biopic, you know, this is
real life happening.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
The fact that I mean, I don't know if Darren
didn't have the money to do what he did, because
he went and got a warehouse, had made sure it
was the right temperature, got the right you know. I mean,
it was amazing when he went through the heat and
preserve these comic books with extraordinary on its own, and
then to fly all over.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
The country to go to these different places.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I mean, if you didn't have any money, you wouldn't
be able to do any of that, you know, and
to get these comics that accredited there. You know, they
go through this whole process to note credit, give them
a number of credit, grade them, and you know, to
be able to do that, and he blew down there
a few times too to have you know, these books graded.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So that's something that's pretty amazing also.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
But the fact that what I loved about this is
he brought in his friends that he's had from kindergarten,
one of them and many of us that he brought
these people that he have been deep caring friends throughout
his life, who knew his father, knew his mother, you know,
knew all about this, but he brought them all in
and gave them jobs and got them involved. But also
(19:35):
when he goes to comic Con and is deciding which
dealers he wants to work with, my heart just opened
up so much when he went to that young man.
And why don't you expound on that a little bit
because I thought that's a whole lot about Darren and
his character.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So for all of those trolls out there who you know,
want to be.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Negative, look at his heart, because his heart comes through
in this film and that's who he is.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yes, so let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, I think his heart does come through his generosity
comes through, and like if I was to maybe even
look at Darren when he was born, you know, the
heart and generosity and the caringness is there. And then
you pick up some other things from your parents along
the way. We all do. We all do, and we
take some life to sort through those and come back
to the heart side of ourselves hopefully. And Darren really
(20:21):
has an affinity for the underdog that's a parent. His
brother has some special needs. He grew up you know,
helping his brother. He still helps take care of his brother.
I think when he met Josh in episode two, the
hatchback kid who had a smaller booth and was just
really trying to bootstrap and make a name for himself,
he took well to him and he wanted to partner
with him, especially on you know, books of a smaller
nature from one hundred to four hundred dollars. And even
(20:44):
that's kind of like the fact that a book is
four hundred dollars is still amazing. But he brought Josh
in and brought his dad in, and the kind of
eeriness of that, the fact, you know, around his dad.
I won't spoil that for people, but there is a
coincidence nature to that that is very sweet, and especially
the father son that Josh and his dad did the
comics together and Darren didn't have. That I think was
very sweet for Darren to watch and maybe also very painful,
(21:07):
but I think more more sweet than not to be
able to see that. Other like Eric the artist who
has about ten percent of his movement in his hands
but still can draw art and did some special things
for the collection. Darren I think does a great job
of just working with sincere people.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yes, and that's it's really it's really a really very
fascinating and documentary on so many different levels, and so
even if you're not a comic book aficionado, this is
more than that. It's a deeper story on so many levels,
and again about our relationships with our parents and our
brothers and our sisters and our friends. You know, it's
(21:46):
about all of that. So please seek it out. Where
is it playing at him? It's a lot of places that.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, the people can purchase it at Apple, at Amazon
Prime and Google Play A four episodes. You can watch
one episode if you want, or you can buy the
you know, the whole for I guarantee you once you're
one in you'll want to keep going. It's structured that
way and you feel quite connected to the family. So yeah,
we would appreciate it. People go, you know, by it.
It's not made by the big streamer, so it's an
indie four part doc, but everyone that's seen it is like,
(22:14):
oh my gosh, it should be there. You know, this
is so well made. The storytelling is quite gripping, and
you know, Darren put himself out there, and like you said,
its way beyond comics. I think it's cool for people
that are earning comics to see the underbelly of a
subculture and be like, oh wow, this is what why
collecting means so much to people and the downsides to it,
the addiction side and the upsides of the camaraderie, but
(22:35):
then also being able to reveal some of the family
conditioning and the conflict we all have with choices, and
oh yeah, I can even throw in you know, a
little bit of Nietzsche and philosophy in there at the
end episode.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, Suber mentioned all of that. Adam, thank you so
much for being on the show. I know you have
a new documentary called Finding Keith. It's something that's titled
Coming Out in twenty twenty five. I wish we had
more time to talk about that, but I'd love to
have you back on the show to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So that's great, absolutely, absolutely, And then Aaron's Law. We're
in development from Aaron's Law documentary as well.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Oh great, great, I would love to have you back
on the show for those or thanks Jan all right
being there For all of the people who love what's
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You can make it make a one time donation, but
you can do it monthly if you'd like. Also, by
supporting the Jam Price Show, you are also supporting independent
and documentary filmmakers because a portion of the money goes
to independent and documentary filmmaker.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So it's a win win for everyone.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You get a tax deduction reporting the show, so I
can continue to give a voice independent documentary filmmakers, and
documentary filmmakers and independent filmmakers can continue to thank you,
so much as for your support and Adam again, thank
you so much on the show.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
It was my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Thanks Jan, thanks for doing what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
The jam Bright Show All about movies.
The Jam Brice Show, All about Movies.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
You're listening to The Jam Price Show, All about Movies,
and today my guest is award winning documentary filmmaker Adam Schomer,
and we're going to talk about this really fascinating documentary
entitled Selling Superman.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Welcome to the show, Adam.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thanks Jim, it is interesting. Thanks for having me on
the show.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Well, you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is a four part documentary and there's a lot
to it. To put that have four parts to a documentary,
there's obviously a lot to it. So I just want
our audience to know when we get before we get started,
what Selling Superman is all about, and then we'll go
into it at a more deep level.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, the hook, the premise, right, what got me was
that there's this forty year family secret, which itself you know,
who keeps a secret for forty years? But it's a
hidden comic book collection three hundred thousand comics and ends
up Superman number one is part of it from nineteen
thirty nine, and that book itself worth in the grate
it is probably three four million dollars. And then the
(01:00):
question becomes, you know, would you sell it? And as
we look into that would you sell. We start to unbox,
you know, metaphorically and figure real. We unbox all the comics,
the family portrait, and a lot of the trauma and
pain that the comic book collection costs. So that might
skew you know, would you keep this heirloom that has
a lot of pain around it? And it makes it unravels?
(01:21):
As a documentary filmmaker, it unraveled as we were making it,
and I got to know the family more and more,
and things just kept happening.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
How did this documentary come about?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I knew Darren, Darren's the main character. I knew him
in high school, so I actually knew his father and
the family. We played soccer together. I was a couple
of years older. Didn't know, you know, that his dad
A had Aspergers, which now is on the ASD autism spectrum.
I did not know his dad was had five rooms
full of comics under sheets and boxes. Darren kept it
a secret, as did the family. And so years later
(01:49):
we're adults. We had been in touch about other business
stuff and then he just he told me, he goes
by the way. I know you make documentaries and I
trust you now, but you know, would this be a
good story. This is what's going on. This is about
a year after his father passed, and I said, well,
let me come, let me come visit. You all see
the old house before it sells. That becomes episode A
lot of Episode one in the old home where you
see the marks and the carpet and vera ta style.
(02:11):
Me just really with Darren, his mom and his brother
recounting some of the collection and the old home history.
Once I saw them on camera and experienced it for myself,
the old house and the level of hoarding, I was like, wow,
this is this is something else, and it just fascinated me,
maybe like your audience, like, how can a comic book
be three million dollars? How do we get to that
(02:34):
point in life?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It's amazing, really is amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I mean, but the fact that they had well over
three hundred thousand comic books that summit, you know, never
been opened really or touched. You know that he collected
that his sons didn't really know either, correct, They didn't
know an idea.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Oh yeah, they didn't know what was in the collection,
but they knew obviously it was happening. They knew his
father had a Superman one. They hadn't and they didn't
know the level of which and his father really didn't
know how good the Superman one was because he never
got it created by the authorities. It was too paranoid.
But yeah, so they knew. I mean, when your whole
basement's a fill of boxes and covered with a sheet,
you know something's in there. When two other rooms are
(03:13):
the same, you know, And when your father's saying, don't
tell anybody about the collection. What collection? Yeah, exactly, the
collection does not exist. So they knew it was there,
but they didn't know what was in it because he
never yeh, like you said, he never really opened them
and read them with the kids. And because of that,
they're in pristine condition, which makes it a world class collection.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You go through a lot of layers in this film,
as far as psychologically the relationship of the two sons
with their father. We see you interview their father's former wife,
their mother in this documentary and why their marriage ended.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
But their pain.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
There was a lot of pain involved with this, which
is very go into this, youd think, no, we're going
to have, you know, a documentary that's you know, then
you get into family drama and psychological pain and emotional
pain talk about that, because I'm sure when you started
this that wasn't.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
A thought that you were going to go in that direction.
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah. I was more in the direction of how do
we get to this level of value? Value interests me
a lot, meaning interests me a lot. Why society places
so much on heroes. Why a comic book, even if
rare would be three million dollars, it still doesn't compute
with me. And I really was interested in who are
the people that would pay it? Who are the people
that are so into Superman that would put that kind
(04:29):
of money. It's a lot of investment. Turns out a
lot of those people don't even want to be known,
you know that that would spend the money on that.
So yet, so it shifted from that to then as
I saw more and learn more about my friend's family
and his mom and the divorce and why she divorced him,
to understanding like, wow, this collection was really a totem,
(04:50):
if you will, of the greater problems that were happening
in the family of paying more attention to the books,
or hoarding and one's obsession and fix station than realizing
like your family's having issues here or neglecting the emotions
of the family, and that can happen, you know, with
the condition of Asperger, it's harder to recognize emotion when
(05:11):
someone's maybe uncomfortable. But his diagnosis went largely undiagnosed for
a lot of their childhood, and even when he did
more or less told that he had the diagnosis, he
kind of sleft it off. You know, everyone else is
a little crazy, so that that can be off putting
too to the family, Like, you know there's an issue,
but you're not really willing to improve on yourself. Everyone's
telling you know, everyone else is crazy, not you when
(05:32):
you know. In episode three, Darren recounts that I think
it was episode three, I should know, but that when
his mother, when they got divorced, she goes into the
bank and the bank tellers congratulated her right and to
that level where like strangers are congratulating because they knew
how difficult of a person he was, and he was
verbally incredibly acute, very smart man. It could argue to
(05:52):
to death, so to speak. I know that, you know,
getting back to the psychological part in train Darin to
be very smart, to be very very over prepared, but
also knowing like, father's a perfectionist. I got to be
over prepared. It's a little bit stressful. I'm not getting
the love and appreciation. It's all about achievement. Those things
start to wire in and I think it's very clear
(06:13):
that that's the case, and a lot of us can
relate to that and relate to the stress that comes
with that constant way of thought instead of really like
maybe just appreciating yourself or your flaws and being a
little kinder to yourself. And it's hard when you're not
given that model from your parents. So it becomes i think,
pretty apparent and no pun intended to conditioning, but to
the depths of it. We get to keep on unboxing
(06:35):
it and thank thank you to Darren and his family
for letting us in. It's not a comfortable place. As
you know, the film Fault starts off with them not
really wanting.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
To do it exactly and thought it was a very
successful attorney and you know, very successful. So you're right
when you know, thank you for verbally was very acute
and you know, right in there. But he also used
that same kind of what he used in the courtroom.
It appears that he used with his also to criticize them,
and especially Darren's the oldest, and Darren always felt inadequate,
(07:06):
and also he didn't feel like he really had a
relationship with his father. I don't think that's unusual with
a particular generation. I think there are many many fathers
of a certain of a certain period who were never
really taught, you know, how to be a parent, you know,
how to be emotional, how to connect with with your
children necessarily, and so their their job was the bread winner.
(07:27):
You go out make the money, and you know, then
the rest is just going to be fine. And and
what happened is the next generation that the children of
that generation became generally, you know, more a better parent,
you know, wanting to be better parents to their children.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And that's the case with Darren and his children.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You know how he relates to them and how he
wants to relate to them, because he definitely doesn't want
to be like his father was. But here you go,
you have a relationship with your father that's very estranged,
you know, you weren't particularly close. Then he dies, and
then you discover this treasure troves of comic books that
are worth millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
One as you stated, is worth close to four million
dollars just one two for five or four million dollars
for one comic, and he has over three hundred thousand,
and now what do with them?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And Darren obviously is very, very, very smart. His father
put it down, he didn't complete college, which you know,
I don't believe everybody should go to college. But he
went on his own and brilliant and formed his own
career and was highly successful and had his own money.
So now he's now got to the possibility even making
more money. But what the dilemma is, what do you
(08:38):
do with it? Do you really want to sell it?
Do you want to keep it? Is it a keepsake
with all of the ins and outs? So that's the
intrigue of this documentary. Do you want to comment a
little bit more about that, because it really is underneath
it all, you know, the foundation of this film is
the emotional impact of keeping or not keeping?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
What do you do? And how do you do it?
That's the other thing. How do you do.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, that's like a big you know in the film world,
a big act too. How do you go about when
you've made a decision? But yet, yeah, it's much more
interesting than a lottery or treasure documentary, you know, or
even like a spelling bead leading up to the end
of you know, all the characters coming together. This is
more has more depth and conflict to it because it's
it is a gray space. It is a family heirloom.
(09:24):
What would Okay, most of us say, we'd be like, yes,
sell and use it for something you love. Okay, cool,
me too, yeah, And in fact, but then it's like, oh,
it's my father's favorite character, and it's something my father
obsessed on. Okay, it's a family heirloom, all right, And
it's a pop culture airlom in. You know, it's a
top three in the world of Superman number one. So
this is crazy that a film my lap as a
documentary filmmaker, it's my friend. And then you go, but
(09:46):
that same heirloom is the source of so much pain?
Why would you want to keep that around you? And
then and then the heroic I would the stronger, more
challenging thing to do is say, well, can I rewrite
that story? Can I change this heirloom into something good?
Bring my friends in and take a journey and partner
with people and make it kind of what I wish
I would have had with my dad. You know that
that to me is that it's something worth watching. Let's
(10:08):
take on that mantle or take on the ring. As
you know, I create it to the ring and the
lord of the rings? Can you turn it to good?
And I think that's a real challenge that Darren took
because he's, well, he's an integral guy. He's a carrying guy,
he's a smart guy and doesn't want to just give
it all to someone without having looked through it himself
(10:29):
and made decisions and get him to know it. And
he's smart and he wants to understand things. I think
that's a real big part of it and would love
to see I think the personal connection of the books
getting in the right hands. And of course people are
going to you know, you're going to learn along the way.
But it's hard for someone that's kind of in the
perfection model to recognize and just make some mistakes along
(10:49):
the way because we're no one's really done it before,
you know, right, There's been collections, but not in this way.
And so you know, kudos to Darren for letting us
watch his process that act to of how do you
do it? Because he did decide I want these to
get in the right hands. I'm not just gonna sell
it off for eight million, even though it could be
(11:10):
worth twenty, you know, and just take the money and
run out. I want to do something cool with it.
And along the way it becomes very challenging, becomes really
you're not only the emotions, but then having a camera
on you while you're going through your emotions, and then
you know people Comic book World, as one of the
guys says in the film, Chuck Rozanski, the owner of
Mile High Comics, the biggest store in the world, says,
(11:32):
you know, it's full contact capitalism. You know, it's great
and people are nice, and it's a wonderful hobby, but
it's also full contact capitalism, and you better have your
eyes wide open, he said, because people will come for
you and they'll try and take advantage. So, you know,
kudos to Darren for going for it. I think there's
a to me, it's a pilgrimage. He chose to go
(11:54):
on a pilgrimage. Whether or not he knows it or not,
you know, he making that choice to do the right
thing with it puts in action a lot of other
things to unfold and a lot of challenges to happen
and force one to look deep within, or you just
sell the whole thing walk away and you never have
to really deal with it, which maybe in retrospect he
might have wished to see would have done, because it
(12:15):
is still really challenging on him, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
How many just keep that.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I don't know the exact number, but he a lot.
Most of the best stuff is still there, but they're
definitely selling, and they've sold, and they've moved a lot
through dealers, small dealers and more regional dealers and even
have their own website now where they you know, they
do sell the collection parts of it. But I was
(12:43):
just talking to him yesterday on the comic book side
and some of the real nicest copies of the biggest books,
the Keys as they would call it, the Key Books,
still has all of those. So there's millions and millions
of dollars not yet actualized.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Has Superman one?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
He does? He does? You know? Spoil spoiler alert, spoiler
alert to everyone. You know what, I don't think it.
I don't think it. You know, it is the big
hook of the series. Would you sell it or not?
But it ends up becoming less important by the end
and more like why you're doing what you're doing, So
I don't feel like it ruins it. But there is
a big sale in the series, as you know, of
(13:23):
a big book, and it causes a lot of issues,
and part of that I think informs him of why
in the at least in the end of the movie
he didn't sell Superman. It might happen in the next months.
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
You start off this film and a number of the
different chapters with this text messaging back in between you
and Darren, and he is constantly saying, I wish I
didn't do this documentary basically, I mean, I'll just spoil
it down in the conversation. Can that go throughout the
(13:58):
entire document if you pass that, you know it started
reading that he was doing this.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
It started at the exact moment that we The film
starts with that, just so people know. It starts with that.
We're hearing press coming about because he's selling a big book,
and so press and the internet starts picking it up.
We had already been filming for almost a year, about
a year at that point, and then this big sale happens,
(14:27):
and it was at that point, and I even turned
to my camera and I'm like, it was a great shoot,
but we don't really have an ending. But I think
the universe knows better than us what the ending will be.
And thirty seconds later Darren text me what you see,
like stop the press? What is And so I'm like,
ha ha. He's like, you think I'm kidding and then
went on to say everything on the phone that you
hear about wanting to get out of this is why
am I showing the world how messed up I am.
(14:48):
So from that point on, so that's about a year
into shooting, there was kind of a lot of back
and forth of wait, what did I get myself into?
And we were really pretty far in in that point.
It was hard to turn hard to turn back. And thankfully,
as you see, you know, Darren's dealing with a lot
of trolls and people coming at him and saying bad
(15:10):
stuff and and has to fight through that and understand
why is he really doing what he's doing. So it
was tough throughout the prible it's still kind of ongoing,
to be honest, it doesn't exactly resolve. It's not like
he's like, oh no, I'm happy. We did the film.
It's still difficult because people are still Yeah, I just
(15:30):
want to say, like maybe I'm sure people realize it,
but it can be tough if you're the guy in
the film. People might think this is your life, that
that three hours, you know, those four forty five minute pieces,
that's your whole life, and even furthermore that even around
this one moment in life, that that's everything that happened,
and it's not. You know, we have hundreds of hours
(15:51):
of footage and many angles we could have taken, and
you share what you can share, and I share what
I think's interesting, but that can be tough for the person.
One thing we did do, of course, just you know,
as we're not exploitive as documentary filmmakers, at least myself,
I'm not. I can't speak to every reality show that is,
(16:11):
but we make sure like we review things with the subject,
with the character and say is this too much? Are
we pushing too far? You can tell us if something's
too sensitive for the family. So it's not like they
have any creative control, but they have the right to
say i'd rather us not talk about that. That's too hard.
You have to be like that nowadays because people are humans,
(16:35):
you know, They're not just for our entertainment. It's just
not how it is.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So, you know, Adam, it was surprising how many people,
you know, the trolls and what they had to say negative.
I mean, this is what's going on in social media,
as we all know, but it was surprising and chocking
to see this kind of environment, how many people were
so negative about about darn and what he was.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Doing in his family, and is like.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
That is you know, I think that's that's my own personal.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I agree, it's kind of it's kind of disgusting. People
just love to haul off without having seen the film.
People were doing that seen a trailer and him selling
one book. You know, that becomes again in the beginning
of the film. We've come back to an end of
episode three and beginning of episode four. It is it's amazing,
with such little knowledge, how people are so dogmatic about things.
(17:32):
Really fascinating to watch it was, It really was.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
It was interesting to see that for sure. How many months,
how many years? How long did it take you to
make this document?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, from the moment I first went to test shoot,
so to speak, on that Thanksgiving, which became a lot
of episode one that was November twenty one, so to
let's say November twenty four, that's three years until release. Now,
you know, from that first shoot, we weren't full on shooting.
We were just picking up some zooms and audio calls
along the way. And then in May of twenty two
(18:04):
we really started filming, and I would say about a
year of shooting till May of twenty three, and then
a year of post to May of twenty four. While
we were also during post, you're still following what's going on,
because that's the kind of docs I like, where we're
following it. It's not a biopic, you know, this is
real life happening.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
The fact that I mean, I don't know if Darren
didn't have the money to do what he did, because
he went and got a warehouse, had made sure it
was the right temperature, got the right you know. I mean,
it was amazing when he went through the heat and
preserve these comic books with extraordinary on its own, and
then to fly all over.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
The country to go to these different places.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I mean, if you didn't have any money, you wouldn't
be able to do any of that, you know, and
to get these comics that accredited there. You know, they
go through this whole process to note credit, give them
a number of credit, grade them, and you know, to
be able to do that, and he blew down there
a few times too to have you know, these books graded.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So that's something that's pretty amazing also.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
But the fact that what I loved about this is
he brought in his friends that he's had from kindergarten,
one of them and many of us that he brought
these people that he have been deep caring friends throughout
his life, who knew his father, knew his mother, you know,
knew all about this, but he brought them all in
and gave them jobs and got them involved. But also
(19:35):
when he goes to comic Con and is deciding which
dealers he wants to work with, my heart just opened
up so much when he went to that young man.
And why don't you expound on that a little bit
because I thought that's a whole lot about Darren and
his character.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So for all of those trolls out there who you know,
want to be.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Negative, look at his heart, because his heart comes through
in this film and that's who he is.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yes, so let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, I think his heart does come through his generosity
comes through, and like if I was to maybe even
look at Darren when he was born, you know, the
heart and generosity and the caringness is there. And then
you pick up some other things from your parents along
the way. We all do. We all do, and we
take some life to sort through those and come back
to the heart side of ourselves hopefully. And Darren really
(20:21):
has an affinity for the underdog that's a parent. His
brother has some special needs. He grew up you know,
helping his brother. He still helps take care of his brother.
I think when he met Josh in episode two, the
hatchback kid who had a smaller booth and was just
really trying to bootstrap and make a name for himself,
he took well to him and he wanted to partner
with him, especially on you know, books of a smaller
nature from one hundred to four hundred dollars. And even
(20:44):
that's kind of like the fact that a book is
four hundred dollars is still amazing. But he brought Josh
in and brought his dad in, and the kind of
eeriness of that, the fact, you know, around his dad.
I won't spoil that for people, but there is a
coincidence nature to that that is very sweet, and especially
the father son that Josh and his dad did the
comics together and Darren didn't have. That I think was
very sweet for Darren to watch and maybe also very painful,
(21:07):
but I think more more sweet than not to be
able to see that. Other like Eric the artist who
has about ten percent of his movement in his hands
but still can draw art and did some special things
for the collection. Darren I think does a great job
of just working with sincere people.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yes, and that's it's really it's really a really very
fascinating and documentary on so many different levels, and so
even if you're not a comic book aficionado, this is
more than that. It's a deeper story on so many levels,
and again about our relationships with our parents and our
brothers and our sisters and our friends. You know, it's
(21:46):
about all of that. So please seek it out. Where
is it playing at him? It's a lot of places that.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, the people can purchase it at Apple, at Amazon
Prime and Google Play A four episodes. You can watch
one episode if you want, or you can buy the
you know, the whole for I guarantee you once you're
one in you'll want to keep going. It's structured that
way and you feel quite connected to the family. So yeah,
we would appreciate it. People go, you know, by it.
It's not made by the big streamer, so it's an
indie four part doc, but everyone that's seen it is like,
(22:14):
oh my gosh, it should be there. You know, this
is so well made. The storytelling is quite gripping, and
you know, Darren put himself out there, and like you said,
its way beyond comics. I think it's cool for people
that are earning comics to see the underbelly of a
subculture and be like, oh wow, this is what why
collecting means so much to people and the downsides to it,
the addiction side and the upsides of the camaraderie, but
(22:35):
then also being able to reveal some of the family
conditioning and the conflict we all have with choices, and
oh yeah, I can even throw in you know, a
little bit of Nietzsche and philosophy in there at the
end episode.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, Suber mentioned all of that. Adam, thank you so
much for being on the show. I know you have
a new documentary called Finding Keith. It's something that's titled
Coming Out in twenty twenty five. I wish we had
more time to talk about that, but I'd love to
have you back on the show to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So that's great, absolutely, absolutely, And then Aaron's Law. We're
in development from Aaron's Law documentary as well.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Oh great, great, I would love to have you back
on the show for those or thanks Jan all right
being there For all of the people who love what's
the jam Fry Show all about?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
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You can make it make a one time donation, but
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you so much on the show.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
It was my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Thanks Jan, thanks for doing what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
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