June 1, 2025 • 15 mins
Original Air Date: June 1, 2025
Garland Jeffreys is a Brooklyn-born singer/songwriter who was way ahead of his time. Now in the late staged of Alzheimer’s Disease, his wife and partner of 40 plus years is out with a love letter to him with the doc “The King Of In Between”.
Garland Jeffreys is a Brooklyn-born singer/songwriter who was way ahead of his time. Now in the late staged of Alzheimer’s Disease, his wife and partner of 40 plus years is out with a love letter to him with the doc “The King Of In Between”.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Grasie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I want to introduce you to Claire Jeffries. She is
the wife and forty year partner of Garland Jeffries, a
name that most people know, some people know very well
because they have been listening to his music for years.
(00:31):
I knew the name, but I think I knew it
from maybe Bruce Springsteen, maybe even Van Zandt, who is
one of the executive producers of this incredible documentary. But
I was not intimately acquainted with Garland Jeffries' music, but
(00:54):
I knew who he was. And it dawned on me,
Claire after watching this film, which who was just wonderful
and extraordinary and the music, oh my goodness. But what
struck me and I was watching with my husband, is
that Garland Jeffries was so ahead of his time, both
(01:16):
the music, the look everything. He was just a beat
ahead of his time.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
You know, I tend to agree. And back in twenty ten,
there was an article in the Wall Street Journal that
was sort of a kickstarter to his return, and in
the article, he said he was sort of born out
(01:50):
of time, like if he were a young artist just
starting out, he would have been more successful, partly because
it was more common or more accepted for artists to
play around with different genres, which Garland was always doing.
(02:14):
And I think he suffered because of that, because, as
it talks about in the film, in the olden days
of radio and the record biz, if you didn't have
a category where you could neatly fit, it was much
harder for the label or radio to to sell you.
(02:37):
And you know, I think he never settled into one
a label or genre that is actually a bad pun
label or record label. But you know, and I think,
you know, he was sort of ahead of the game
(02:58):
with reggae, and you know, he was prancing around with
dreadlocks back before anyone else was accept that Jamaican's and
as it saysn't the film, which I thought was so funny,
was Garland was telling people he was from Jamaica because
(03:19):
it sounded cool, and his friend was like, what do
you say, and you're from brook You're from Brooklyn, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Straight out of Brooklyn. And the movie, by the way,
is The King of in Between. It is opening this
coming Friday at the IFC Claire, Jeffries explained the title
the King of in Between.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Okay, well, in twenty eleven, that was the title of
his album, that was the first album that we self released,
and it was really sort of his phrase that kind
of was trying to get at the idea that he
(04:02):
was between the races, between the genres, between the and
as he had a little poem it said something about
between the between the mansions and the cracks, between the
some and no, between the mansions and the shacks, the
King of in Between. And I think the use of
(04:25):
the word king was to sort of say, well, I
may be all those things that don't advance me, but
I'm still pretty great. And I think that was the
meaning of that phrase. And he at the time when
we were beginning the film, he was still cognizant of
(04:49):
what was happening, and he kind of signed off on
the title, even though I was hesitant about the title
because it had already been used for the album, but
we went with it.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And sadly, he's suffering from Alzheimer's disease. Yes, he's in
the very late stages where he's I mean, he's still
able to eat and chew. But that's about it. I mean,
he really is not aware of anything. And you know,
(05:28):
sometimes I'll speak to him and I sense that he's understanding,
but he doesn't have the wherewithal of the neurons to respond,
and so I have to sort of content myself with thinking, well,
(05:48):
maybe he got that, or maybe he heard that, and yeah,
so it's really bad. It's so hard on you and
your daughter. I'm so sorry that that has to be
really a struggle. But this movie is such a tribute
to Garland Jeffries, and most of it is him telling
(06:09):
his story. Yes, I mean you made this at the
right time.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
You're not kidding. I mean we had started filming some
stuff right in the apartment and I thought to myself, well,
you know, this is all good, but I wasn't sure
how much we were going to use of that footage.
But as he advanced and as the years rolled by,
(06:37):
it took so long to finish this film, partly because
it was self funded, partly because of the pandemic, partly
because of what was happening with him. Partly I just
think it's the nature of documentary filmmaking that it sort
of fits and starts you get a little funding and
you do something. But anyway, we we shot him and
(07:04):
then I found a lot of archival stuff where he
was filling in the blanks of his own story and
we were able to sort of piece it together, even
though towards the end he wasn't able to articulate much.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I'm speaking with Claire Jeffries. She is the wife and
forty year partner of Garland Jeffries. The King of in
Between is the documentary. You can see it at the
IFC starting this coming Friday. Some of the other things
that hit me Claire as I was watching the movie,
and this is something I believe in, and sometimes some
(07:43):
of the worst things that happened to you in life
lead to some of the best things that happened to you.
For example, when his wallet was stolen with two thousand
dollars inside when he was taking off his clothes, you know,
to get a better weight, you know, for a check up.
So explain what that led to after that.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I think what he would do is he would go
to Jamaica and there was, unbeknownst to me, a hospital
where you could weigh yourself on this scale, and then
he would think, well, I'm going to lose x amount
of pounds while I'm on this trip, I mean. And
so he took his wallet out to lighten himself while
(08:28):
he weighed himself, which I would have done.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And me too.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
He put it on the counter and then he walked away, thinking, oh,
I'm not so heavy, and then he realized he lost
his wallet. He went back and it was gone, and
he apparently sat down not long after and wrote this
song called Matador, which was a large success for him
(08:59):
in Yoururope Only and it continues to sort of throw
off royalties to this day. And that was in I
want to say nineteen seventy nine or something. So he
was very happy about that incident leading to something that
(09:20):
was better in the end.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And then there was an incident at a ballgame. Oh yes,
he was at Shea stadium and he was I don't
know who he was with.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I was not there, and he stood up with excitement
to something in the game, and someone yelled out behind him,
hey buckwheat shoes shuit the hoof down. And he was
apparently very shaken by this moment because it was it
(09:55):
had probably been a while since he had been called
a racial epithet in public, like that and he apparently
that became that phrase became the springboard for the for
the album because he thought, well, don't call me Buckwheat.
(10:16):
You know, I and Buckwheat is such a weird racial epithet.
I mean it's not even used that often. But you know,
whoever this guy was. And needless to say, Garland, didn't
you confront the guy? He was probably huge? But so
he then embarked on this sort of long, long process
(10:40):
of writing this record. And he's always been I wouldn't
say preoccupied, but but but somewhat preoccupied with racial identity,
racial ambiguity, racial mixed being of mixed race and the
nuances of that. And he wrote this entire album about it.
(11:03):
And he was going up to the Schomberg Center, he
was reading James Weldon Johnson. There was a lot of
research that he was doing that was kind of to
support his idea. But I think in the end he
had enough life experience to write that album. Anyway.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
What was his connection to Bruce? How did that begin?
Bruce Springsteen and Stephen van Zant, Well, you know what
happened in making the film. I came across something in
a Dave Marsh book where He said that Bruce's first
performance in New York City was at Cafe O Go
(11:51):
Go because John Hammond was interested in signing Bruce but
wanted to see if he could pull off the songs live,
so he threw them on this bill with Garland and
Charlie Musselwhite. Now, prior to reading that, I had no
idea that they had met way back then. I want
(12:12):
to say, nineteen seventy two, seventeen. That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
It was crazy, And if I hadn't stumbled across that,
because Garland had no memory of that, but that must
have been when they first met. And I know they
were friendly. And I remember back in eighty one or
eighty two, I was with Garland in the power station.
(12:38):
He was recording, and Bruce popped up and he said
something like, oh, this is the Jersey tomato you've been
telling me about or because I'm from Jersey, And I thought,
was that sex sis or was that really jeering? I
wasn't sure, But anyway, they were friendly for a long
(12:58):
time and and Bruce would often, not often, but sometimes
invite Garland to join him on stage at some huge shows.
And I think that's something about Bruce where he He's
incredibly loyal, and he remembers the people from way back when.
(13:24):
And I think in Garland's case, you know, they were
singer songwriters sort of kicking around at the same time,
and obviously the trajectory of their careers was so radically different.
And you know, one that's one of the themes of
(13:47):
the film that I really tried to get at, which
is that success on any level is not to be
taken for granted, and that people have massive success or
what we in this culture consider success, meaning status, accolades, fame, riches,
(14:13):
huge audiences. And I think Garland for many years sort
of suffered from feeling like, well, I didn't get what
I deserved or what I thought I deserved. And it
was only pretty late in life that he began to say, well,
(14:35):
it's pretty amazing that I did what I did and
made all these records. And I would say to him, sometimes,
you have not worked a straight job since you were
like twenty four, I mean, and I would try to
remind him of that. And Stevie ben Zan, I guess
(14:55):
they I don't know when they met, but they were friendly.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Obviously very friendly because Stephen van Zand is a co
executive producer along with Maureen, his wife. Do yourself a favor,
especially if you are not familiar with the great music
Garland Jeffries has made. Go to the IFC Center starting
this coming Friday, and do see the movie The King
of in Between. And thank you so much, Claire Jeffries
(15:25):
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You've been listening to Sunsteen sessions on iHeartRadio, a production
of New York's classic rock Q one O four point
three
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Grasie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I want to introduce you to Claire Jeffries. She is
the wife and forty year partner of Garland Jeffries, a
name that most people know, some people know very well
because they have been listening to his music for years.
(00:31):
I knew the name, but I think I knew it
from maybe Bruce Springsteen, maybe even Van Zandt, who is
one of the executive producers of this incredible documentary. But
I was not intimately acquainted with Garland Jeffries' music, but
(00:54):
I knew who he was. And it dawned on me,
Claire after watching this film, which who was just wonderful
and extraordinary and the music, oh my goodness. But what
struck me and I was watching with my husband, is
that Garland Jeffries was so ahead of his time, both
(01:16):
the music, the look everything. He was just a beat
ahead of his time.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
You know, I tend to agree. And back in twenty ten,
there was an article in the Wall Street Journal that
was sort of a kickstarter to his return, and in
the article, he said he was sort of born out
(01:50):
of time, like if he were a young artist just
starting out, he would have been more successful, partly because
it was more common or more accepted for artists to
play around with different genres, which Garland was always doing.
(02:14):
And I think he suffered because of that, because, as
it talks about in the film, in the olden days
of radio and the record biz, if you didn't have
a category where you could neatly fit, it was much
harder for the label or radio to to sell you.
(02:37):
And you know, I think he never settled into one
a label or genre that is actually a bad pun
label or record label. But you know, and I think,
you know, he was sort of ahead of the game
(02:58):
with reggae, and you know, he was prancing around with
dreadlocks back before anyone else was accept that Jamaican's and
as it saysn't the film, which I thought was so funny,
was Garland was telling people he was from Jamaica because
(03:19):
it sounded cool, and his friend was like, what do
you say, and you're from brook You're from Brooklyn, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Straight out of Brooklyn. And the movie, by the way,
is The King of in Between. It is opening this
coming Friday at the IFC Claire, Jeffries explained the title
the King of in Between.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Okay, well, in twenty eleven, that was the title of
his album, that was the first album that we self released,
and it was really sort of his phrase that kind
of was trying to get at the idea that he
(04:02):
was between the races, between the genres, between the and
as he had a little poem it said something about
between the between the mansions and the cracks, between the
some and no, between the mansions and the shacks, the
King of in Between. And I think the use of
(04:25):
the word king was to sort of say, well, I
may be all those things that don't advance me, but
I'm still pretty great. And I think that was the
meaning of that phrase. And he at the time when
we were beginning the film, he was still cognizant of
(04:49):
what was happening, and he kind of signed off on
the title, even though I was hesitant about the title
because it had already been used for the album, but
we went with it.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And sadly, he's suffering from Alzheimer's disease. Yes, he's in
the very late stages where he's I mean, he's still
able to eat and chew. But that's about it. I mean,
he really is not aware of anything. And you know,
(05:28):
sometimes I'll speak to him and I sense that he's understanding,
but he doesn't have the wherewithal of the neurons to respond,
and so I have to sort of content myself with thinking, well,
(05:48):
maybe he got that, or maybe he heard that, and yeah,
so it's really bad. It's so hard on you and
your daughter. I'm so sorry that that has to be
really a struggle. But this movie is such a tribute
to Garland Jeffries, and most of it is him telling
(06:09):
his story. Yes, I mean you made this at the
right time.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
You're not kidding. I mean we had started filming some
stuff right in the apartment and I thought to myself, well,
you know, this is all good, but I wasn't sure
how much we were going to use of that footage.
But as he advanced and as the years rolled by,
(06:37):
it took so long to finish this film, partly because
it was self funded, partly because of the pandemic, partly
because of what was happening with him. Partly I just
think it's the nature of documentary filmmaking that it sort
of fits and starts you get a little funding and
you do something. But anyway, we we shot him and
(07:04):
then I found a lot of archival stuff where he
was filling in the blanks of his own story and
we were able to sort of piece it together, even
though towards the end he wasn't able to articulate much.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I'm speaking with Claire Jeffries. She is the wife and
forty year partner of Garland Jeffries. The King of in
Between is the documentary. You can see it at the
IFC starting this coming Friday. Some of the other things
that hit me Claire as I was watching the movie,
and this is something I believe in, and sometimes some
(07:43):
of the worst things that happened to you in life
lead to some of the best things that happened to you.
For example, when his wallet was stolen with two thousand
dollars inside when he was taking off his clothes, you know,
to get a better weight, you know, for a check up.
So explain what that led to after that.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I think what he would do is he would go
to Jamaica and there was, unbeknownst to me, a hospital
where you could weigh yourself on this scale, and then
he would think, well, I'm going to lose x amount
of pounds while I'm on this trip, I mean. And
so he took his wallet out to lighten himself while
(08:28):
he weighed himself, which I would have done.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And me too.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
He put it on the counter and then he walked away, thinking, oh,
I'm not so heavy, and then he realized he lost
his wallet. He went back and it was gone, and
he apparently sat down not long after and wrote this
song called Matador, which was a large success for him
(08:59):
in Yoururope Only and it continues to sort of throw
off royalties to this day. And that was in I
want to say nineteen seventy nine or something. So he
was very happy about that incident leading to something that
(09:20):
was better in the end.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And then there was an incident at a ballgame. Oh yes,
he was at Shea stadium and he was I don't
know who he was with.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I was not there, and he stood up with excitement
to something in the game, and someone yelled out behind him,
hey buckwheat shoes shuit the hoof down. And he was
apparently very shaken by this moment because it was it
(09:55):
had probably been a while since he had been called
a racial epithet in public, like that and he apparently
that became that phrase became the springboard for the for
the album because he thought, well, don't call me Buckwheat.
(10:16):
You know, I and Buckwheat is such a weird racial epithet.
I mean it's not even used that often. But you know,
whoever this guy was. And needless to say, Garland, didn't
you confront the guy? He was probably huge? But so
he then embarked on this sort of long, long process
(10:40):
of writing this record. And he's always been I wouldn't
say preoccupied, but but but somewhat preoccupied with racial identity,
racial ambiguity, racial mixed being of mixed race and the
nuances of that. And he wrote this entire album about it.
(11:03):
And he was going up to the Schomberg Center, he
was reading James Weldon Johnson. There was a lot of
research that he was doing that was kind of to
support his idea. But I think in the end he
had enough life experience to write that album. Anyway.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
What was his connection to Bruce? How did that begin?
Bruce Springsteen and Stephen van Zant, Well, you know what
happened in making the film. I came across something in
a Dave Marsh book where He said that Bruce's first
performance in New York City was at Cafe O Go
(11:51):
Go because John Hammond was interested in signing Bruce but
wanted to see if he could pull off the songs live,
so he threw them on this bill with Garland and
Charlie Musselwhite. Now, prior to reading that, I had no
idea that they had met way back then. I want
(12:12):
to say, nineteen seventy two, seventeen. That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
It was crazy, And if I hadn't stumbled across that,
because Garland had no memory of that, but that must
have been when they first met. And I know they
were friendly. And I remember back in eighty one or
eighty two, I was with Garland in the power station.
(12:38):
He was recording, and Bruce popped up and he said
something like, oh, this is the Jersey tomato you've been
telling me about or because I'm from Jersey, And I thought,
was that sex sis or was that really jeering? I
wasn't sure, But anyway, they were friendly for a long
(12:58):
time and and Bruce would often, not often, but sometimes
invite Garland to join him on stage at some huge shows.
And I think that's something about Bruce where he He's
incredibly loyal, and he remembers the people from way back when.
(13:24):
And I think in Garland's case, you know, they were
singer songwriters sort of kicking around at the same time,
and obviously the trajectory of their careers was so radically different.
And you know, one that's one of the themes of
(13:47):
the film that I really tried to get at, which
is that success on any level is not to be
taken for granted, and that people have massive success or
what we in this culture consider success, meaning status, accolades, fame, riches,
(14:13):
huge audiences. And I think Garland for many years sort
of suffered from feeling like, well, I didn't get what
I deserved or what I thought I deserved. And it
was only pretty late in life that he began to say, well,
(14:35):
it's pretty amazing that I did what I did and
made all these records. And I would say to him, sometimes,
you have not worked a straight job since you were
like twenty four, I mean, and I would try to
remind him of that. And Stevie ben Zan, I guess
(14:55):
they I don't know when they met, but they were friendly.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Obviously very friendly because Stephen van Zand is a co
executive producer along with Maureen, his wife. Do yourself a favor,
especially if you are not familiar with the great music
Garland Jeffries has made. Go to the IFC Center starting
this coming Friday, and do see the movie The King
of in Between. And thank you so much, Claire Jeffries
(15:25):
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You've been listening to Sunsteen sessions on iHeartRadio, a production
of New York's classic rock Q one O four point
three
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