06-11-25 - *FULL SHOW* WY Gov Mark Gordon; Leland Vittert got married; ICE protests - The Ross Kaminsky Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I didn't pay a ton of attention, but I did
pay a little attention to the protests in Denver last
night against ice, and I just want to talk about
it a little bit. The most recent data point that
I have as far as arrests comes from the Denver Post,
who says they arrested seventeen people, and seven of those
people were obstruction of streets and failure to obey a

(00:25):
lawful order, which presumably means the cops said, hey, get
out of the road, you're blocking traffic.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
And then they didn't.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Three people on suspicion of graffiti, two people on, two
more people on obstruction of streets and failure to obey
an order, but also for those two adding something called
interference with police authority, two people of second degree assault
to a police officer, and then a few.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Other people on some other things, including.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
A second degree assault charge or suspicion of second degree assault.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
So I'd say overall.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Given some of the history in Denver in relatively recent years,
like during the George Floyd in Summer of Love, stuff
not bad.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Not a bad night for Denver.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Lots of protesters, hundreds at least of protesters, maybe a
small number of thousands started outside the state capitol around
five point thirty yesterday and they took off on their march,
and I think they split into two groups, walked down
a couple of roads, blocked some roads, and you know,

(01:30):
it's it's fine. It's fine for a little while. It's
part of the American tradition. You go protest, you go march.
I don't like it when they're blocking roads. I also
don't think it's the end of the world if they know,
do that for a little while and then they get
out of the road.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
So it's fine. It could have been worse.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
And I also think it's it's good that the Denver
police were able to get out of the night without
having a lot of let's say, controversy, such as during
the George Floyd stuff, after which, well, after which there
were lawsuits and the Denver police ended up having to

(02:08):
settle for millions of dollars for the use of excessive force.
It was reported that some people were throwing rocks and
bottles at police officers. Some people claimed, well, officers used
smoke and pepper balls, but they said they did not
use tear gas.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
So that's fine.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
And yeah, so it's what you expect these days in
a city in America. Protest didn't get too out of hand,
and I think we basically did fine. Marty did a
poll this morning, but who do you blame for these protests?
And around seventy eight percent said they blame the protesters
around I'm not looking at it right now, but I

(02:48):
think it was fifteen percent said they blamed the protesters
and Ice, and maybe it was a little less than
fifteen percent, and somewhere around ten percent blamed just Ice somebody.
It was seventy four, not seventy eight who blamed just
the protesters. I don't entirely understand blaming Ice. And I'm
gonna get a little.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Technical here, right.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I suppose if you think, and we will talk about
this more later in the show, but if you think
that the that's what's really bothering you, is not not
the fact that there are any deportations. I'm sure there
are some people who are against all deportations, but I
don't care about those people. But maybe you're against a
certain kind of deportation, like you know, going into a

(03:36):
store where or a business of some kind where some
illegal immigrants have been working for ten years and just
you know, doing their jobs and so on, and picking
up those people when you've said that, really who you're
going after are kind of hardened criminals.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
And I get that. I get that.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
I understand being some people saying, you know, this is
not where our priority should be, and I actually agree
with that, it's not where our priorities should be. I
know there are people, including plenty of people who listen
to the show, who say that at any point when
ICE encounters an illegal immigrant, that person should be deported.
It's also not an insane argument, but I just don't

(04:15):
think that should be the priority, right. The priority should
be what the federal government said their priority is, and
that is getting rid of the criminals.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I also think, and I.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Mentioned this briefly yesterday in some of the bigger protests
when we did see this in Denver, also a lot
of people waving Mexican.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Flags, and I think that's a very tricky thing. If
this were.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Cinco de Mayo, if it were a day where we
were celebrating Mexican culture, then waving around Mexican flags is fine,
just like people might wave Italian flags on Columbus Day.
But when you're protesting against the country, that you're in

(05:02):
that presumably you want to stay in, and presumably you
want to stay here because it offers some combination of
whatever it might be, some combination of opportunity, safety, education,
quality of healthcare, whatever the things are that make you
want to be in the United States. When you're waving

(05:27):
around the flag of another country. Again not this is
not an all the time thing, but in this very
specific kind of circumstance where you're protesting against the country
that you want to be in, that doesn't strike me
as very smart.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
I heard a funny line.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
I don't know, I don't know who said it, but
yesterday on television they said that flag should be the
equivalent of a self addressed stamped envelope, right for ice.
Oh look, there's a guy with our gal with a
Mexican flag. Go get them, wrap them up in the
Mexican flag and send them back home.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
If they're illegal aliens.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
But it's not just that, And I did think, and
I just to be fair about this, there were people
waving American flags in those protests as well.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
There are also people.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Waving upside down American flags, which is a sign of distress.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
But I think, I think.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
When you are doing something that is some kind of
protest against an action of the United States government. I
think it's beyond and appropriate to go around waving the
flag of another country. It's very much the wrong message.
And again, I'm not against the Mexican flag. You know,
I love going to Mexico, Mexican people, Mexican food, the
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I don't need to explain myself.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
And I would be fine with people waving the Mexican
flag in any situation where waving the flag for another
country would be appropriate.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
That isn't. And I also think, and.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
I mentioned this briefly yesterday, that that's a significant political
loser for the Democrats because again, the vast majority of
Americans I believe, share the view that I just expressed, right,
either feel neutral or positive about Mexico Mexicans, right all that,

(07:15):
most of us have no no negative bias there.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
But when you're.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Rioting, throwing things at police, causing all kinds of chaos,
and weaving the flag of that other country, now what
you're going to do is you're going to start turning
people who are normally sympathetic to you into people who
aren't sympathetic to you anymore. And like I said, I
think that is a huge mistake in in a quarter

(07:47):
let's call it.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Wyoming Governor Mark.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Gordon is going to join us, a very very smart
and interesting guy for conversation. I think you're going to enjoy,
even if you don't live in Wyoming. And an hour
after that eleven oh three issue, Leland Vittert will join
us again. Leland Viverter of News Nation, formerly of Fox
regular guest on the show, and we will ask Leland

(08:10):
why he is talking to us rather than being on
his honeymoon since he got married on Saturday. We will
talk about lots of other things as well. You probably
heard about this guy, Terry Moran. Terry Moran, his title
is or was, Senior national correspondent for ABC News. He

(08:30):
has been fairly overtly anti Trump for quite a few
years now, but he took it to a whole new
level with a long tweet about Trump's senior advisor, Steven Miller,
and a little bit about Trump himself. Let me just
quote a bit. The thing about Steven Miller is not

(08:52):
that he is the brains behind trump Ism. Yes, he's
one of the people who conceptualizes the impulses of the
trumpst movement and translates them in policy. But that's not
what's interesting about Miller. It's not brains, it's bile. Miller
is a man who is ritually endowed with the capacity
for hatred.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
He is a world class hater.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
You can see this by looking at him, because you
can see that his hatreds are his spiritual nourishment.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
He eats his hate.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
And he went on to talk a little bit about
Donald Trump, also in uncomplimentary terms, although not as aggressive
as that stuff. So I have two things to say
about this. First, I mostly agree with Terry Moran about
Stephen Miller. Don't like him at all. Think he's a
really bad guy. Second, I'm an opinion host. Terry Moran

(09:42):
is supposed to be a straight news journalist for a
major news outlet. I realize it's legacy media and they're
not quite what they were, but still ABC News is
a big deal. ABC News has a long history, a
tradition of great journalists, right, David Brinkley, even Peter Jennings
was quite good and so on. Right, And this guy

(10:03):
is not an opinion person for ABC. His senior national correspondent.
You if you have opinions like that about the government
that you're supposed to be covering as a reporter, not
as an editorial writer. First of all, if you have

(10:25):
opinions like that, you probably.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Shouldn't even be in that job.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
But if you have opinions like that and you are
in that job, you absolutely positively have to keep those
opinions to yourself. They should not be expressed directly as
opinions or indirectly within so called news coverage that obviously
contains a lot of opinions as well. But what he
said there was on it was on Twitter, and it

(10:50):
was not intended to be any part of a news conversation.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Was just his opinion.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
So the other thing you need to understand, and why
this was so particularly stupid by Terry Moran, is you
got to understand the time in which we're living.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
This is not one or two years ago.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Has he not been paying attention to the millions of
dollars being paid to Donald Trump or to organizations associated
with Donald Trump buy news networks? In fact, I think
ABC had to also on the George Stephanopolis thing, paying
millions of dollars directly or indirectly to Trump six million.

(11:31):
You think Shen's fifteen million fifteen million, fifteen.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Million there, and that's not the only one.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
There's something going on with CBS right now about their
what he claims is their deceptive editing of the sixteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Interview with Kamala Harris.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
And if I read this correctly, it is about a
week ago. Now. I believe CBS offered Trump fifteen million
dollars in settlement and Trump said, no.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Not enough.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Few wants twenty five. So this is the world we
live in now. These organizations are very afraid of being
on the wrong side of Donald Trump. They're coughing up
millions of dollars. This guy works not only for that
type of organization, but for one that already lost a
bunch of money with, you know, with that kind of stuff.

(12:23):
And so Terry Moran was immediately suspended, almost immediately suspended
after he said maybe a couple days after he said
it was he was suspended. And then the news that
I wanted to share with you now, the newer news
from yesterday is and I'm going to paraphrase here rather
than quote, is that Terry Moran was near the end

(12:45):
of his current contract. So what ABC has said they're
going to do is not renew his contract, and he's gone.
So he's he already was off the air because he
was suspended, and he'll never be back on the air
with ABC because his suspension won't end before his contract
ends or not giving another cause.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
So he's he's gone.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
So and again, I don't care what Terry Moran believes.
And more important than that, even if I kind of
sort of share that share that belief, here's here's the problem.
And I think I don't need to put it. I
don't think I even could put it more succinctly than this.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
It's not just that I don't.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Care what Terry Moran believes. It's that I shouldn't know.
Legacy Media Network's paying Trump some some money. Right, So
one one person says those were rank shakedowns that the
media cave too. Actually it's the same person is saying
something else about CBS fearing the trumpel block of merger

(13:48):
if they if they don't pay him, So I'll just
stick with.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
The first ones. This is the same person.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Uh, those were ranked shakedowns that the media cave two
a little a little, And and I guess if I
were a big company in the United States of America
and facing a president who did seem like the kind
of guy who would use the power of government to
hurt individual businesses. Right, look how he said, although he
backed down like his first reaction when Elon Musk got

(14:15):
crossways with him about the so called Big Beautiful Bill
was to tweet that he was going to cancel Elon
Musk's contracts. And I wouldn't want to be on the
wrong side of a guy like that either. And I'm
you know, somebody who does that kind of thing probably
shouldn't be president, or at least at least a person
who was president shouldn't do that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
But but it's not true that this.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Is just a shakedown, right, These networks did this stuff.
Right Stephanoppolis repeatedly called Trump a convicted rapist, and he's not.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
And you know, you can decide.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
You can decide whether you think that at sixty Minutes
intentionally edited the Kamala Harris interview to make her look
less stupid. I think they did, so I don't think
it's just a shakedown. There's some aspects of shakedown there.
There's some aspect of I'm gonna put the fear of
God in you people. So that you treat me better,

(15:18):
or you know, the usual trumpy kind of stuff. But
it's not just that. It really isn't. So I think
we need to be really careful in general. Right, So
many people, Okay, there are people who think that Trump
is never wrong, right, and there are people who think

(15:41):
that Trump is never right. And what you have to
keep in mind is that Trump can be, let's say,
half wrong about something, but it doesn't mean that the
other side is fine.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
I'm probably not wording that.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Very well, but you get the idea, right, Even if
Trump is a little bit wrong in his reason for
going after these legacy news outlets for cash, it doesn't
mean those guys didn't.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Do anything wrong. It really doesn't.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
And I think it's I think it's important that we
that we keep that in mind.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
I want to actually let me do this thing.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
So I didn't talk about it on the show because
a little bit, a little bit too people magazine kind
of thing. But I just want to follow up a
little here. You're probably aware of the blow up between
Simone Biles, one of the greatest gymnasts, maybe the greatest
gymnast of all time, and Riley Gaines. Riley Gaines' former

(16:46):
collegiate swimmer lost a championship to a man who was
swimming as a woman, and who was His name is
Will Thomas, but he was swimming as Leah Thomas.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
And I don't want to be too ue kind about that.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
I mean, if Leah Thomas wants to live as she
as Leah Thomas, then go for it. Just don't compete
against women in sports anyway. Riley Gaines, along with Jennifer
Say have probably become the two most outspoken voices against
biological men competing against women in sports. And there was
I think it was a softball tournament at some point

(17:23):
recently and the pitcher for the winning teams a biological male,
and Riley Gaines sent out some kind of tweet saying
that's not okay, and.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
And and that's true, it's not okay.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
And Simone Biles came out with a pretty aggressive tweet
against Simone Biles, I'm sorry against Riley Gaines, saying stuff
like you should lift up the trans community and you
should pick on someone your own size, which ironically would
be a man. Now, I think what's important to keep

(18:07):
one of the things that's important to keep in mind
here to the extent that you care about this at all?
Is that in twenty seventeen, Simone Biles herself sent out
a tweet that says, ah, good thing guys don't compete
against girls, or he'd take all the gold medals.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
In twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
So then when Riley Gaines is saying the same thing,
Simone Biles goes crazy. The world turned, not not the
whole world, but Simone Biles got an immense amount of pushback,
and this morning published something something of an apology, and

(18:52):
I'm not gonna share all of it with you, but
she says, I've always believed competitive equity and inclusivity are
both essential in sport. See I don't even know what
that means. What does that mean competitive equity and inclusivity?
I mean, the only thing I can think of that
that might mean is if you go back seventy or

(19:13):
one hundred years, and even that wouldn't really be true,
but in some situations where it would be difficult for
let's say, a black athlete to get on a team.
But of course you go back to Jesse Owens in
the nineteen thirty four Olympics, and you know, so I'm
not sure what she's talking about with competitive equity and inclusivity.

(19:35):
We've had competitive equity and inclusivity in.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
This country for as long as I've been alive, so.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
I And so she goes on to say, well, she
was just mad at Riley Gaines for singling out that
one athlete, but that one athlete.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Is a symbol of everybody who's doing that.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
And how are you not going to tell the story
of the harm to all of these girls by having
to compete against a much stronger boy. How are you
gonna do that without showing an example of how they're
being harmed? And so then later to later this morning, No,

(20:14):
I take it back, it was it was late yet
later yesterday. Simone Ville's apology came out yesterday late morning,
and then Riley Gaines.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Sent this after that.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I accept Simone's apology for the personal attacks, including the
ones where she body shamed me.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I know she knows what.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
This feels like. She's still the greatest female gymnast of
all time. Riley says sports are inclusive by nature. Anyone
can and everyone should play sports. Competition, on the other hand,
and by definition, is exclusive, So the idea of competitive
equity is nonsensical.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Hallelujah. That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Secondly, the boys are publicly humiliating the girls. To suggest
that women and girls must be silent or ignore a
boy who is publicly hurting or humiliating them is wrong.
You can't have any empathy and compassion for the girls
if you're ignoring when young men are harming or abusing them.
And I'm not ashamed to be a voice for the voiceless. Lastly,

(21:17):
she's saying to Simone Biles, I agree with you that
the blame is on the lawmakers and the leaders at
the top. Precisely why I'm suing the NCAA and support
candidates who vowed to stand with women. That's why I
joined Donald Trump at the signing of his executive order.
I didn't see you there or championing this effort with
your platform. Women's sports can't be used as an excuse

(21:39):
for girls to center the feelings and validation of men
and boys. I welcome you to the fight to support
fair sports and a future for female athletes. Little girls
deserve the same shot to achieve that you had. That's
great and clearly Riley Gains beat Simone Biles on that one.

(22:05):
Simone Biles made a huge mistake by jumping in. Actually,
that's probably really bad for her brand. She is a brand.
I don't know what if she's on Wheati's boxes or whatever,
but she is a brand, and you know, for whatever
she advertises, I bet that the company that company companies

(22:25):
that hire her to endorse their stuff would not be
happy when she comes out with a tweet that kind
of support sort of supports men in women's sports boys
in girls' sports, which is something like an eighty twenty
issue the other way, eighty twenty issue, no no men
in boys in women's sports. They're probably pretty pretty disappointed

(22:48):
that she came out with that. So all right, there's that.
What else we got here? Oh, I've had this story
for a couple of days. It's not very important, but
it's just kind of fun. And this is from the
Denver Post. Is a coffee kiosk a restaurant in Aurora.
A judge must decide, so this let me see where
this place is two one nine two five East Quincy

(23:16):
Avenue in Aurora.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
So there's a.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
There's a plan to build a coffee kiosk for a
company called seven, the number seven Brew Coffee five hundred
and seventy five square foot drive through only with no food,
no tables, no chairs, no waitresses, just to drive through
and you pick up your drink. And the reason this

(23:45):
is in the law or I'm sorry, in the news,
and I'll quote from the Denver post. The dispute between
two different developers, the developer who I guess has a
right to build in that parking lot, and the developer
who has the rights to everything else around there.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I finders stay and it right.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
The dispute dates to December of twenty twenty three, when
one of the developers got word of the proposed coffee kiosk.
They made clear to the build to the developer who
want to build it that they believe the kiosk violates
the subdivisions governing documents. Both sides agree that restaurants are
not allowed, the only exception being a carve out for

(24:23):
an existing eatery known as the Taco Bell Exclusive. In
early twenty four, Armstrong that's the group that doesn't want
the that doesn't want this thing built, demanded that Alberta
stop development of the kiosk. They filed an objection with
the city. The city opted not to weigh in. They
approved the plan. So now it's in court, and now

(24:46):
the bottom line is a judge is going to have
to decide whether a drive through coffee Kiosk counts as
a restaurant, because if it does, then it wouldn't be allowed,
and if it doesn't count as a restaurant, then it
would be allowed. To me, this is kind of like
the question is uh is a hot dog a sandwich?
Or is Diehard a Christmas movie? These are things that

(25:09):
they're just right. These these these are fighting words and
questions that nobody really has an answer to. So let
me go back to some of the stuff going on
with all the all the protests. So Gavin Newsom came
out last night and made some statements and it was funny,

(25:30):
actually it was almost ironic.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
He came on, but.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
His audio wasn't working, so they had to cut it off,
and then he talked for a while and then the
whole field, the whole feed failed and then it was
it was typical. It was just it was yeah, it
was perfect, it was it was perfect.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
So but anyway, I just wanted to share with you
a couple of.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Things that he that he had said last night. He's
he's almost entirely wrong. He's he's not entirely wrong, but
he's almost entirely wrong. I want to share a little
this with you, and we'll talk about it a bit.
And I also want you to keep in mind that
Gavin Newsom is certainly running for president, that's why he's

(26:12):
doing all this. And here's the other thing though, I
want you to keep in mind, this a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Subtle, and that is that.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
At this point, people who are thinking of running for
president on either side, since Donald Trump can't run again,
will be focused almost entirely on the primary elections, not
the general election. Right, you can't become president of the

(26:45):
United States unless you win the Democratic or Republican nomination
to become.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
President of the United States.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
And of course i'm leaving out third parties, but they
don't seem very close to winning right now.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Do they.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
So you've got to win the primary first. And obviously
the primary is against people in your own party. And
therefore all these every move that anybody who's even thinking
of running for president is making, even though that election

(27:18):
is not for another three years and several months, everything
they're gonna be doing is going to be about trying
to appeal to the base of their party. So you
shouldn't hear how these people talk and think, gosh, that's
gonna turn off a lot of moderates, or that's gonna

(27:39):
or you shouldn't hear how a Democrat talks and say
that's gonna turn off a lot of you know, potentially
swing voters in the Republican who lean Republican. That's not
their goal. They're not trying to win the general election
right now. They're just trying to get their own parties nomination.
So keep that in mind. Here's a little bit of
Gavin Newsom from last night.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Any of you are feeling deep anxiety, stress and fear,
but I want you to know that you are the
antidote to that fear and that anxiety.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
What Donald Trump.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
Wants most is your fealty, your silence to be complicit
in this moment.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Do not give in to him. So there he is,
there he.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Is, And look, this is, like I say, it's just politics, and.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
You have to judge it on that scale.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Right, is it effective for him is a more important
question for him then whether it's true, whether it's right,
whether it's good for the country. So here's another example
of Newsom from yesterday, Trump.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
He's not opposed to lawlessness and violence as long as
it serves him. What more evidence do we need than
January sixth. I ask everyone time reflect on this perilous moment.
A president who wants to be bound by no law
or constitution perpetuating a unified assault on American traditions.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
That's a more interesting one because I think that's I think.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's basically right.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
I think a lot of people, again, if you took
off your partisan hat, I think a lot of people
would listen to that and say, you know that that
does have a grain of truth in it, that does
have a ring of truth about it. Right. Donald Trump
didn't do anything to stop the rioting on January sixth.
He let it go, even when members of his family
and Sean Hannity and his chief of staff and everybody

(29:40):
came to him and said, please go on TV, go
on Twitter, and tell these people to stop, and he wouldn't.
So when Gavin Newsom says that there are only certain
kinds of political violence that Trump is against, I actually
think that's I think he's right.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
I think he's right.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
But the problem is that, being Gavin Newsom, he can't help.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
But go to f are. So he continues with this
kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Democracy is under assault before our eyes. This moment we
have feared has arrived. He's taking a wrecking ball, a
wrecking ball to our founding father's historic project, three co
equal branches of independent government.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
They're no longer any checks and balances. Congress is nowhere
to be found.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Speaker Johnson has completely abdicated that responsibility. The rule of
law has increasingly been given way to the rule of
down the founding fathers they didn't lift and died. See
this kind of moment, It's time for all of.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Us to stand up here. Here's the problem with that.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
And again there's a lot to that that's not entirely wrong.
But the overall line of Trump is a threat to
democracy is just worn out. It's tired, and it's a
high minded thing that very much matters. Okay, it does matter,
and I do care, and I do think there are

(31:03):
things that have been going on in our government, not
just under Trump. Yeah, Trump's part of it, but Biden too,
and Obama two and George W.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Bush too. All.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
I do think there are actual threats to the I
wouldn't quite say.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
To democracy, but to.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
The supremacy of the American Constitution over the operations of
government and to the proper checks and balances. That's where
Gavin Newsom has it right. And he also has it right.
This is not just on Mike Johnson, but Congress is
absolutely supine. One Congress after another has just been letting
the president accumulate more power. We talked about this yesterday

(31:41):
with former Congressman Francis Rooney. I think part of the
problem for Newsom, though, is that he's Gavin Newsom. When
you when I see Gavin Newsom, or even think of
Gavin Newsom, the.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
First war that comes to mind for me is smarmy.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
He's just the slick back hair and all the poll
tested talking points and all the telling everybody that they
have to stay in their homes during COVID and then
go into French laundry with his friends. Everything about the
guy is just everything you want to hate in a politician.

(32:28):
That's how I see him. So now he is governor
of California, and so this is very relevant to him now,
and so that's why he can say this stuff and
make it sound like he's doing it as governor rather
than as a presidential candidate. But I promise you he's
doing it as a presidential candidate. All right, moving on,
although speaking sticking with something related to Donald Trump. This morning,

(32:48):
President Trump sent out a message on truth social and
I will read it to you. Our deal with China
is done, subject to final approval with President She and me.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Full magnets and.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Any necessary rare earth will be supplied up front by China. Likewise,
we will provide to China what was agreed to, including
Chinese students using our colleges and universities, which has always
been good with me. We are getting a total of
fifty five percent tariffs, China is getting ten percent. Relationship
is excellent. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

(33:20):
So let's talk about this a little bit.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
First.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
I suspect that this is not really a comprehensive sort
of deal because it happened pretty fast, and trade deals,
usually serious trade deals take a year, two years, three years.
So this is probably a thing where they just addressed
a few bullet points that each country cares about most.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
And that's fine.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
I just do want people if this is very unlikely
to be a comprehensive deal. Now, Also, based on what
President Trump said right there, that I shared with you,
you get a sense of what both countries seem to
care most about. So what Trump cared most about, and
he's right to put this add or near the very

(34:03):
very top of his list, is access to rare earths.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
So rare earths are not really all that rare.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
They're found in a lot of places, but they're found
in low concentrations. So typically you have to take an
immense amount of stuff out of the ground and process
it in order to get a relatively small amount of
these rare earths. But they are available, We've got him.
In the US, they are used to make primarily to

(34:33):
make powerful, small permanent magnets.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
They're used for other things as well.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
What's basically happened since some of the renewable energy industry,
particularly the wind part, and also electric vehicles, are absolutely
reliant on these kinds of magnets, and these are both
huge industries, especially electric vehicles. Hopefully the wind industry won't

(35:02):
be that big for that much longer, because it's a
huge waste of time in most places. But in any case,
I mean, I don't want industries to fail. I shouldn't
put it like that. I don't I'm not cheering for
that industry to be smaller. I'm cheering for that industry
to be absolutely as big as it can.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Be without government subsidies. Right. If it's economic and it
makes sense and the people want it, go for it.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
And I wish them all the success in the world,
just not with my children's future earnings. But in any case,
these magnets are critical. You cannot make these wind turbines,
you cannot make electric vehicles without them. And the entire
world has let itself become dependent on China, not just
for the material but for the processing. In other words,

(35:44):
even if we had the ore and the mining to
create the raw material in the United States, we don't
have the facilities to turn.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
It into magnets.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
We need that, And regardless of whatever has happened in
this deal, the industrialized world needs to eliminate our dependence
on China for rare earth materials. The other thing, though,
is the other thing that he mentioned is that what
China wanted was Chinese students coming into American colleges. We

(36:16):
need to be really careful with this too, You know what,
this deserves a little more time. I'm going to take
a quick break and I'll follow up. Right after this,
I had made some content well. I played some audio
of California Governor Gavin Newsom saying that it's not that
President Trump doesn't like political violence, it's just that he
doesn't like political violence that doesn't support him. So he
was talking about January sixth, and he said President Trump

(36:38):
seemed fine with that.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
He's not fine with the.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Riots that are opposing or the yeah, protest slash riots
that are opposing him. So he's not really anti violence,
he's just against his certain violence. And then I got
two different listener texts, and one listener said, yeah, said
it seems like the January sixth stuff is just being
swept under the rug, and some people are trying to
talk about it as if it's not a big deal.

(37:00):
And clearly that listener thinks January sixth is a big deal.
I think it's a fairly big deal too. And then
another listener says, January sixth.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Was completely staged.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
And then this listener remembers my talking with my friend
Lenina about it, and and Lenina made some comment about
how she thought some part of it was staged, and
she was there that day. She wasn't at the she
wasn't at the Capitol building, but she was nearby at
the first part of the protest, and I said, well,
just because she's my friend doesn't mean she's right, but
it is. It is kind of funny how within literally

(37:30):
just a few seconds of each other, two different texts,
one from a listener who is saying that January sixth
is not being focused on enough, and another person who
is saying that January sixth really shouldn't be focused on
at all. So that but that's that's the world we
live in. It's okay, it's all right, So Chinese students.
President Trump sent out a message this morning on truth

(37:52):
Social and I'll just read it again in case you're
just joining the show. Our deal with China is done,
subject to final approval with President She and me. Full
magnets and any necessary rare earths will be supplied up
front by China. I don't even know what upfront means, right,
they make them, they sell them, they send them.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Are they supposed to send ten years of magnets up front?
We don't. We're not gonna buy them that way. Whatever
up Likewise, we will provide to China what.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Was agreed to, including Chinese students using our colleges and universities,
which has always been good with me.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
He says, we.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Are getting a total of fifty five percent tariffs, China
is getting ten percent. Relationship is excellent. Thank you for
your attention to this matter. All right, So I spent
some time in the previous segment talking about.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
The rare earths. I'm not going to go back to
that now. Clearly that was what.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
The President was focused on, and as I said before,
that's a good thing to be focused on because we
got to have them.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Now. It's very interesting that the only.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Negotiating demand, I'm not saying the only one the Chinese had,
but the only one of the Chinese negotiating demands that
Trump decided to mention Chinese students using American universe, using
is his word, attending American colleges and universities. And I
think this is a very difficult question because I don't

(39:15):
know what the percentage is, but it's a lot more
than zero of Chinese students who either are when they
get here or will be after a while. Chinese agents
and spies, either they are recruited that way and sent

(39:37):
here for college or graduate school with a.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Plan at the very beginning.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
You're going to work your way into this and you're
going to start learning about this or that kind of
science and particular engineering, and you're going to send that
information to us in China. And so some of those
kids are there, and other people will be ones who
never had any contact with the Chinese government before going

(40:02):
to some of the best schools in America, never had
any connection at all. And maybe the government didn't necessarily
think that that kid would get very deep into some
place that had a lot of information that the Chinese
government would want.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
But once that kid gets.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
There and is now in an MIT physics lab where
they're working on a next generation weapon, somebody from the
Chinese government in the United States will bump into that
student at a coffee.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Shop, say we should talk. You know that.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Little sister you have over in Shenzhen or Guangzhou or Beijing.
You know that little sister of yours over there. Gosh,
it would be a shame if anything happened to her,
wouldn't it, Or it might not even be that quite
that aggressive.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
How about this.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
You've got a little sister over there in China, and
we know that her plan is to come to the
United States of America, like you to get a great
education and to give herself the best possible future in life.
And if you want her to have that same opportunity
to come to the United States, if you want her

(41:16):
to be granted that visa, we need something from you.
We need a little thumb drive with some information from
your lab.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
This is this whole thing with China. Ooh, breaking news.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Cale mccarr wins Noris Trophy, awesome, fabulous best Defenseman.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, he deserves it. He absolutely deserves it.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
So China is a very tricky situation, unlike every other
trading partner we have, unlike any other country that Trump
will be negotiating with, because they're huge. There are a
lot of big trading partners, but China is among the biggest.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
They're huge.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
But also they're an adversary and they cheat and lie
and steal and spy. And it should tell Trump something
and it does tell me something that.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
For the Chinese, being.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Able to have their people come to our universities was
as important to them as having access to rare earth
materials was to Donald Trump. With no havings, having no
access to rare earth materials would shut down the production
of electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles in the United States

(42:42):
of America, as well as shutting down wind turbines and
many other things. That sounds like a big deal to
shut down a large or multiple large, entire industries. And
it sounds like for the Chinese, having their students come
to our schools of that level of importance to them.
And I think it's of that level importance to them,

(43:04):
because they cheat and lie and steal and turn not
just students but professors too, into bought and paid for
or extorted and blackmailed spies. And we need to be
very very careful with China. I might get to talking
about the terrorist later, maybe not. Other stuff to do.
Keep it here on, Koa, let me share kind of

(43:26):
a wacky story with you. It's sort of a cringe
kind of local story. And if I have time, I'll
squeeze two local stories in here. But I want to
make sure i'm on time with the governor. So a
guy named Miles Hartford Miles no, no tea, I'm sorry,
Miles Harford. Miles Harford ran a company called Apollo Apollo Funeral.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
And let's see what's the whole name. Hold on, here
we go, on.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Sorry, this is Apollo Funeral and Cremation Services. There we go,
Apollo Funeral and Cremation Services. So here's what happened. This
dude got evicted from his home, or from the home
he was renting. Rather, he got evicted and the property
owner was cleaning out the place after this guy had

(44:22):
moved out. But I guess the car was still in
front of the house and he called the city. I
guess he called the police and said there's a suspicious occurrence.
And so the property owner was searching through the house
that he had rented to this guy Harford and found

(44:43):
twenty nine earns of cremated remains, right, twenty nine earns
of ashes.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Right.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
So, and I'm quoting from the Denver actually Denver Gazette,
not Denver Post, Denver Gazette on this one.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Make sure I've got that right. Yes, Denver is head.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
And investigators got to the home and started searching the property,
and they found the body of a woman named Christina
Rosales covered in rugs in the back seat of this
guy's broken down hearse the long white vehicle was parked
in a side driveway at his Denver home. Oh my gosh, seriously,

(45:27):
so that turned out to be just the beginning of
the story.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
This is pretty crazy. Let me go back to the
beginning of the article.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
The former Denver funeral director, who admitted to abusing court
corpses after the police found about thirty cremated remains and
a corpse that had been in his hearse for months
at his home last year, will spend more than a
year in prison.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
I wonder.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
I mean, I guess when somebody gets financially, you know, struggling,
they might they might do anything. And I try to
put myself in a position like that, I'm thinking, I'm
you know, I've got responsibilities to these families, these loved ones.
They've n trusted me with the mortal remains of their

(46:22):
of their loved one. They've en trusted me to, you know,
do the right thing, take care of it.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
And then they go on and do this. Oh my gosh.
Rosales that the person whose.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Body was found had been picked up in late twenty
twenty two. Harford was then turned down by crematorities done
to an ongoing debt bill, so instead he covered the
body and left it in the car until it was
discovered during eviction.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
So miss Rosales was married. Her husband's name is George.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
He said for eighteen months he left her in that
car and the heat of the summer and the cold
of the winter. I can't understand how he can treat
her body that way. He truly was a monster, isn't that?
I don't even know what word.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
To apply to that.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Actually, what's what's the right word for that story? What's
the right word for that person? And again, part of
me thinks, part of me thinks, you know, the hammer
should come down on this guy really hard. I wonder
if you know, eighteen months in prison and then another

(47:35):
year of parole is enough.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Maybe that's about right. He didn't kill anybody.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
And part of me thinks when people get desperate, they
do desperate things.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
That doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished. I'm not saying
he shouldn't be punished.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
You just wonder what it is that drives someone to
end up in that position. All right, I'll tell you what.
I want to be on time with the Governor. So
I'm gonna take you quick break here. When we come back,
the Governor of Wyoming, Mark Gordon, joins the show. We're
going to talk about energy, oil, nuclear education, stable coins,

(48:10):
believe it or not, and so many things that I
think you're gonna be you're gonna find fascinating.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
I think you're gonna be as.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Impressed with Governor Gordon as I was the first time
I spoke with him. I had a chance a few
weeks ago to attend an event that was primarily about
energy over at the Common Sense Institute, where I am
a proud fellow the Mike a Loprino Free Enterprise fellow,
and one of the key speakers that evening was the

(48:37):
Governor of Wyoming, Mark Gordon, and I was just very
impressed with the guy. He was on top of so
many details, technical details, energy related stuff, and I learned
that he has worked in the energy industry, but he
also has has worked at the Federal Reserve and other
such things. And there are just so many things going

(48:59):
on in Wyoming that he talked about that I thought
were fascinating that could be great lessons for Colorado, for
the rest of the country, and also for me. There's
just such a massive contrast in the fact that there's
a state right above us that I know this is
going to sound dumb, but it's even like the same
shape as Colorado. It's right next to us. The line

(49:23):
dividing us is invisible. And yet on one side of
the line, which is to say, the side of the
line I live on, there is an ongoing, aggressive, persistent
erosion and attack on freedom and fiscal sanity. And on
the other side of the line, where Mark Gordon is
running the place, and where they've got smarter voters who

(49:45):
elect someone like Mark Gordon, it's going the other way.
A lot of good policy, no state income tax, energy development,
and on and on. So I asked the governor if
he would join us on the show, and he kindly
agreed to do so. Mark Gordon, Welcome to Koway. I
know we got my own listeners on Kowa. Thanks for
being here.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Ross.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
It's wonderful to be here, and you're very kind. Let
me put it that way. We have a great state.
We're always happy when Colorado shows up on the weekends
to enjoy recreation here. But most importantly, we're a great
region and we have tremendous amounts of resources.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
We should unleash them and we should help our economy grow.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Okay, so I'm gonna warn you and me at the
same time. You and I are both nerds who have
the tendency to get deep into detail.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
But we only have about sixteen minutes, so let's.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Exactly so let's try to keep it kind of sort
of high level so we can get through some things,
and then when we need to get through more things,
I'll have you back.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
But let's start with.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
What you were talking about when you and I first met,
which was energy, and I would like to just start
with what you guys are doing with nuclear energy.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
Sure, sure, well it was exciting. A couple of years ago.

Speaker 5 (51:07):
We were approached to host a new type of technology,
the NATREM reactor, also known as terror Power. It is
jointly funded by Bill Gates and the Department of Energy.
It's a sodium cool passively shut down modular design. It's

(51:29):
not a small modular nuclear reactor. It's sort of a
medium about three hundred megawatts, and it is being built
right now in Western Wyoming. It's got a new type
of fuel system that produces about seventy percent less waste.

(51:51):
It's a phenomenal thing and we're very excited about that.
But we've also looked at small modular nuclear reactors. We've
got two companies in Wyoming, Babcock and Wilcox, who is
now bw X t UH does all a lot of
the reactors for our nuclear fleet. They're looking at small

(52:13):
reactors both of military application, but also if you're a
remote village, let's say somewhere in a Alaska or something,
this can power you. Otherwise you're dependent on uh, you know,
having to have fuel transported to you. If you're let's
say a data center, this can also power your data

(52:34):
center before the before the meter. So that's another application.
And then we've got really small micro reactors that have
specific applications elsewhere.

Speaker 4 (52:45):
And that's more of a movable kind of.

Speaker 5 (52:48):
Very small reactor that can that can go you know,
on site a couple of places. They go to almost
any size.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
I mean, do you think that if nuclear power got
enough foothold in Wyoming that you could drive the cost
of electricity in Wyoming down so much that you could
attract energy intensive manufacturing businesses to Wyoming.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
And is that part of your goal?

Speaker 4 (53:15):
Yeah, that is part of the goal.

Speaker 5 (53:16):
The other is that you know, this new combinatory being modular,
it can benefit from mass production, so you know, like
we do with cars and other things, not everything is customized,
which will reduce the costs, and so we're really looking
at being able to drive energy intensive manufacturing, advanced manufacturing

(53:40):
around US, to be able to export this technology really
across the country for lots of different applications.

Speaker 6 (53:48):
It is interesting because you hear, you.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
Know, broadly now about all these old sort of mossball
plants by three Mile Island being restarted. That's really old technology.
It's kind of great that they're coming back online. But
we're really looking at safer, smaller, more economic types of
technology that can be built going forward.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
One very important question before we do more on energy,
are you going to come to Colorado on September twentieth
when the Cowboys are going to be playing the Buffalos
in Boulder.

Speaker 5 (54:27):
I always I always like to go cheer my cowboys on.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
You know, that's always fun. That's always fun.

Speaker 5 (54:36):
So you say, it's the Rams versus the Cowboys, that's
our old rivalry.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
But you know it'd be it'd be good to see
coach Prime.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
So I mentioned this morning that President Trump had an
announcement about a deal with China, and in that deal
he talked about China's going to resume deliveries of rare
earth materials and magnets. And what I said to my
audience is that's fine, but at this point, we have
major American and non American industries that are utterly dependent

(55:10):
on China, not just for the raw material but for
the processing as well. And I said, we've got the
stuff in the United States. We don't have the processing
right now, but these materials are available in the United States.
And I know you're thinking about rare salt in Wyoming.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
You bet.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
We've got three major fines in Wyoming. And really what's exciting,
we're turning on a new type of separation technology, so
processing in Upton, Wyoming. It's a place called Rare Element
Resources RR, and it's a phenomenal find up in the

(55:52):
Bear Launch District.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
It's kind of fun to hear. Internationally.

Speaker 5 (55:56):
We just were on a trade mission in Japan and Taiwan.
Both of them had already heard about rare as element resources,
and what they were excited about was that they see
the advent of US production of critical and rare minerals
as a sort of a lifeline for the chokehold that

(56:19):
China has.

Speaker 4 (56:20):
Put on all of those resources. So right here in Wyoming,
we're not only.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
Have those rare earths, but we're also looking at the
processes that can drive them better, more environmentally, sound, more
economically in a more.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
Modern fashion than what we traditionally do.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Now.

Speaker 5 (56:39):
It's very exciting, and we're General Dynamics has been partnering
with a couple of these corporations. I think we're looking
at Chris right, Secondary of Energy coming out to visit
some of them, So we're right.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
At the beginning of that process.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
My fear with this stuff, although it seems like Trump
administration is already aware of all this and already trying
to get ahead of it, is radical environmentalists abusing NEPA
and other such laws to try to stop any kind of.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Work like this.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
And I know there was an executive order already to
try to throttle that back a little bit.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
But what are what are.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Your thoughts and I think this would apply to.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Nuclear as well to some degree.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
What are your thoughts at how you get around these
these often well funded gad flies who try to stop everything.

Speaker 4 (57:30):
Yeah, No, I think that's that's one of the big challenges.

Speaker 5 (57:33):
I'm actually working on an editorial at this point to
talk about. You know, NEPA was not a bad lag
when it first came out, but it's been corrupted over
the years with all the court cases and everything else,
to where it's become as you say, this, this this
process by which you can stop anything for whatever reason.

(57:53):
It needs to get back to those really critical, most important,
substantial issues defined, and.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
I think we've had this administration really anxious to do that.

Speaker 5 (58:05):
So Lee Zelden new Secretary or administrator for the EPA
Secretary Burgham, actually Secretary Bergham, and I've worked on this
issue for a number of years. It's really frustrating because
what we've done is we've hamstrong ourselves from being able
to advance the sorts of technologies that we've really.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
Been able to do in this country, where we mind better,
we do.

Speaker 5 (58:33):
It more environmentally sounded, better labor conditions. We do all
of this in America, and yet we stop ourselves constantly.
I made that joke the other day at the Institute,
where I was saying, you know, we've got a developer

(58:55):
here in Wyoming that has been twelve years, twelve years
just getting the permits to be able to.

Speaker 4 (59:02):
Provide energy to southern California.

Speaker 5 (59:07):
That's all the things that they would want. He worked
on it for twelve years to get that done.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Unbelievable. Well, I shouldn't say it's unbelievable. It's believable.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
It's been It's terrible, but it's believable because it's been
going on.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
For so long.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
We are talking with Governor Mark Gordon of Wyoming. A
bunch of listeners have noted and I want to verify
if this is true, even though of course everything in
Wikipedia is by definition true just by being there. But
are you related by marriage to George Patten?

Speaker 4 (59:39):
Yeah, yeah, I am. That was so.

Speaker 5 (59:44):
My great grandmother was the sister of George Patten's wife.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
So is there any part of you that, like, do
you like to walk around with Ivory handled pistols and
emulate emulate George Patten?

Speaker 5 (01:00:01):
I like my guns, but I don't have Ivory handled pistols.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
So that's a fine answer for a Wyoming governor.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
All right, let's just because there's so many things to
talk about, let's let's move away from energy for now.
And you mentioned something when you were here at CSI
about the Wyoming Innovation Partnership, and I thought this was
just one of the most interesting things I've heard in

(01:00:31):
a long time related to education and new ways to
think about education. And I was telling one of your
folks who I was talking with today. You know, you
guys in conservative results oriented states tend to judge government
project based on the results in the ROI. In places

(01:00:51):
like where I live now, just to the south of you,
they tend to be judged just simply based on how
much money is being spent. The more money is being spent,
the better the project must be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
I like your way. Better tell me about WIP.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Yeah, well, thank you for that.

Speaker 5 (01:01:07):
Wyoming has somewhat limited resources for everything, and being a conservative,
if you want to make sure that the investment that
you make pay back.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
So we suggested a few years ago.

Speaker 5 (01:01:19):
As part of a total rebuild and why I was
a little bit different than Caldwell, a little bit different,
a lot different than Colorado. But we have one university
and we have few community colleges. We wanted to be
able to make sure that they were all aligned. That
was sort of the formation of the WHIP analysis. We

(01:01:39):
started from the bottom. We talked about what's relevant, what's important,
what are the emerging industries, how can we engage the
private sector to be partners in that effort? And then
most importantly, and I think what you're talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Okay, so we've made these investments, how are they paying back?
What are the.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
Metrics that we're using are there? You know, are are
people getting jobs? Are they of value? Do people find
value in what we're accomplishing with that? So we've actually,
for the first time looked at what that cost is.
Of course, there's going to be people that say, well,
you didn't look at this, you didn't look at that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
But we've made it open source.

Speaker 5 (01:02:19):
So if you've got better ideas on how we can
measure this, we want to hear about it because it
really is about how we should be funding education going forward.
Is it relevant, is it valuable? Does it move us
forward as opposed to we've always done it before and
we just need to do more.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
All right, So give me just thirty seconds on this
next part because then I want to do one last
topic with you, and don't worry about the WIP metrics.
I was just saying, I'm glad you are measuring them,
but just quickly, what exactly does WIP do.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
Well. What it did is it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:57):
Stood up a program which allows for the private sector
to come in. So one example of this is our
tourism industry, and they are funding the culinary arts uh
and and all the hospitality.

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
Piece that goes with that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
Then not only that, but then they're tracking how those
graduates are performing in the industries.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Because we love.

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
Wyoming, we also want to know if they're staying here,
so there's a piece of that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
And then we're also asking them to give back to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
So it's to me, it sounds something like a very
advanced public private partnership of highly focused trade schools, or
are having some part of an educational system be something
like trade schools, but the public private partnership make sure
that the things that are being taught are the things

(01:03:56):
that there's actual demand for in the economy right now.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Is that close? That is?

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
That is absolutely it?

Speaker 5 (01:04:03):
And then the other piece of it is that we've
freed up the instructors so that they don't have to
meet some sort of matrix or rutbric, but they can
actually teach what's valuable and it's almost an immediate feedback.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
A listener says, I'm supposed to say to you Powder
River letter Buck, and he said, that's what you would say.
I have no idea what that means, all right, where
do you keep going You can't tell me later.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Okay. One of your.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Staffers just told me about this this morning and I
had missed it, and it's just fascinating. And we only
have three minutes right now, so we'll have to have
you or one of your people back.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
But tell me about the Wyoming Stable Token.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
So the Wyoming Stable Token is the first connected to
a state government digital coin. It is fully backed, it's
going to be backed by US treasuries. It's completely in
the open and transparent. It has a two percent over

(01:05:08):
it so that we can always meet the requirements. You're
going to be able to redeem it at one hundred
percent of what you paid into it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
You can look at what we've done to back it
over time.

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
And the reason we did it at the state is
because the federal government is mucking about with our financial
system in such a way that we felt it was
important that people could say, here's the asset, this is
what it's worth. Not only that, but we're bringing back
a lot of that foreign investment of our treasuries back

(01:05:40):
into the country. So it's making our country stronger, making
our system of finances much more transparent and clear, and
it kind of gets rid of all the mucking about
that our federal government does with federal funding.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Again, this probably requires a lot more time or urban
or both, but I don't But and again, just dumb
it down for me here, governor.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
So, how how does a stable coin that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Is backed with US dollar US federal.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Government assets do anything to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Protect anybody from risks to the US dollar or treasuries
or anything or is that not really the goal?

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
Yeah? No, No, I think.

Speaker 5 (01:06:28):
The goal is to say we have one hundred you know,
if you're buying a US treasury, it's redeemable at one
hundred percent of what it is right back, Yeah, to
add par so, this is all short term. We're not
trying to invest, We're not trying to make a bunch
of money.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
We just want to make.

Speaker 5 (01:06:43):
Sure that we have an item that can be used
for a settlement that is not volatile, that is.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
Absolutely predictable and visible.

Speaker 5 (01:06:54):
And we know, and this has been one of the
big frustrations going back to Obama, we know that digital
assets are going to have a role in our economy
going forward. There is a piece of it that is
about speculation. We don't want the Wyoming stable token to
be anything about speculation. We want it to be a

(01:07:15):
predictable form of settlement something and I'll.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
Make this very clear, something that are small community.

Speaker 5 (01:07:22):
Banks can take advantage of and not be pushed out
of the market by our larger banks.

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):
We need all the banks that we have, but we
want to.

Speaker 5 (01:07:31):
Make sure that this becomes a particularly valuable asset for
small community banks that are kind of shut out of
some of the stuff right now by all the federal regulation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Well, I wish I had another hour with you, but
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
And for listeners, I think you understand why I was
so impressed with Mark Gordon the first time I had
a chance to speak with him. Right so, just now,
he's talking about technical details of stable coins, of public
private partnerships, and education, of the mining and process of
rare earth minerals, and of nuclear power. And that's just

(01:08:04):
all we had time for. But I'm sure he knows
an immense amount about so many other topics.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
Marcus is very good.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
To have you here. I know you're a busy guy.
Thank you so much for spending some time with us.
I'd love to have you back, and you know, maybe
if you come down in a few months for the
football game, I'll see you then.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
That'd be great.

Speaker 5 (01:08:23):
Ross, thanks so much, and thanks for everybody on your
listener online too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Thanks so much. That's Governor Mark Gordon of Wyoming. Really
interesting guy. I wish we had.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Let me let me be clear about this. Jared Poulis
is also a very very.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Very smart guy. These guys are both really really smart.
But look at what Gordon is doing. What Mark Gordon
is doing in Wyoming, promoting nuclear power, doing all this
fabulous public private partnership stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Just not only is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
It significant out of the box thinking, and Polus is
capable of that, but significant out of the box thinking
always keeping the tax payer in mind, with a lot
of things that could be lessons for the whole country.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
And in fact, let me put it to you this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Way, can you tell me one thing that Colorado was
doing that you think, Yeah, that's a great idea, and
every other state, or at least many other states should
emulate us. I can't think of it, but there's a
bunch going on in the state just to our north.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Beach Boys have been around a long time. The Beach
Boys are older as a band.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
I don't know about the individual band members, but the
Beach Boys are older as a band than almost any
other band you can think of, right that. The Beach
Boys were formed in nineteen sixty one, and so you
know what you were the Beatles formed, Actually I should

(01:09:53):
know that, but nineteen sixty okay, so they are only
they're only one year newer than the Beatle, and they've
been around longer than, for example, to Who and the
Rolling Stones and some of these other classic bands. So
when you hear that somebody like Brian Wilson has has
passed away, I guess it shouldn't be all that surprising.

(01:10:13):
But boy, we all grew up with that stuff. I'm
impressed how how a Rod seems to have been be
affected by that news, even though you're a little young
for the Beach Boys.

Speaker 7 (01:10:24):
I've told you over and over, and I will tell
you most right now on this day. I was raised
right most importantly musically, Yeah, Beach Boys were.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
One of my favorite groups growing up. They were right there.

Speaker 7 (01:10:35):
The Beatles from me are still number one, always will be,
always have been. Beach Boys are right there, right there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
That one hurts. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
I know your mom at least often listens to the show.
I don't know if your dad does. But a dad
is where the music really came from.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
But so I will say to whichever parents or parents
are listening right now, to A Rod's parents specifically and generally,
to parents who use A Rod's phrasing, raised your kids
right when it comes to music, Very well done. That's
some good parenting. And I will I will pat myself
on the back slightly in that one of my great
moments as a parent, A Rod. One of my great

(01:11:13):
moments was maybe five years ago, I took one of
my kids to see Steve Miller band at Red Rocks
and my kid was probably fourteen at the time, something
around there, and my kid could sing a lot of
the songs, and I thought, all right, that's some good parenting,
just like your parents with the Beatles and the Beach

(01:11:33):
Boys and and all the other stuff. Is it because
of your parents and being raised that way regarding music
that you got into a singing or is that sort
of coincidentally?

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
You think it's exactly right.

Speaker 7 (01:11:46):
We would have jam sessions in our basements growing up
as kids with my dad, so in honor of the
Beach Boys. Wouldn't it be nice if so many others
did the same growing up with their kiddos.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Is either of your parents a singer or musician? Yeah,
my dad was using multiple bands growing up.

Speaker 7 (01:12:06):
Oh yeah, yeah, two really good ones at one point
in time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
I would. I would do backup vocals and bass.

Speaker 7 (01:12:13):
To him in our little jam sessions, and eventually I
would grow to having.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
My own lead in the songs. Wow. Oh yeah, very cool.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:12:23):
We were big on the Spinal Tap guys, those movies
Christopher Gaston Company, all of the all of those, all
the beat every single Beatles song, all the Beatles movies,
absolutely everything, everything that was just good music and all
the different movies and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Everything everything growing up. That explains a lot. You're welcome,
You welcome, Okay, all right, let's wear switch gears for
a second.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
I would do a Colorado political story, but I'm gonna
do it quickly because one of the names in here
is somebody who's just not worth much time, and that's
Hope Sheppelman.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Hope Sheffelman was.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
I think she was vice chair maybe of the Colorado
Republican Party in recent years when Dave Williams was chair
of the party, and she, like all the other people
who kind of stuck with Dave Williams are odd, insane,
grifty people who shouldn't be anywhere near any political office ever.

(01:13:26):
And the reason I mentioned her to you is that
she has announced that she is going to challenge Representative
Jeff Heard, Colorado's third congressional district in the Republican primary
coming up the next time around. I guess that'll be
next year, actually, and I don't think she's gonna make

(01:13:47):
any progress. I don't think she's going to beat Jeff
Heard in the primary. But what I would say to
Jeff Heard, who is a friend of mine, I haven't
talked to him about this because this news just came out.
What I would say to Jeff Heard is, don't take
every opponent, even one as ridiculous as Hope Sheppelman. Take

(01:14:11):
them at least a little bit seriously, don't ignore them.
It's a bad look to ignore them, and bad things
can happen when you ignore them. And I don't think
Jeff Heard would make this mistake anyway. But remember the
guy who AOC beat was actually quite a senior member

(01:14:34):
of Congress and had been talked about as a potential.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
Speaker of the House.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
And I don't even remember his name, but you know
what he did in that primary race against AOC in
whatever year that was six or eight years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Remember what he did.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
No, of course you don't remember what he did because
he didn't do anything, and he lost. And so I
would just tell Jeff heard as worthless and pointless. And
it's actually not fair to worthless people to call Hope
Sheppelman worthless because she's much worse than that. But take
it at least slightly seriously, do what you need to

(01:15:12):
do to make sure that you win that primary and
that she never pokes her nasty little head up again
to run for office in the future. I want to
spend just a couple minutes here because the next segment
of the show we're gonna have Leland Vorton. I'm very
excited for that. I want to spend a couple of
minutes here sharing with you some audio from our reporter
on the street yesterday, Tony Maynis, who was out out

(01:15:34):
and about amongst the protesters and did an interview with
a young woman. And let's just listen to a little.
I may jump in and interject from time to.

Speaker 8 (01:15:42):
Time, telling me your name, my name is Eliza Lucero.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
Tell me about the organization you're with, you're wearing red shirts.

Speaker 4 (01:15:52):
What is the name? Tell us about the organization.

Speaker 9 (01:15:55):
Yeah, so with the Party for Socialism and Liberation. We
are a political already Aggrassmooth political party in Denver.

Speaker 8 (01:16:02):
We're a community organizing group.

Speaker 4 (01:16:04):
Tell me about what's going on here today. Why are
you here?

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
What do you hope to accomplish?

Speaker 8 (01:16:10):
We are here today because.

Speaker 9 (01:16:14):
Of the escalated violence that has come about in Los
Angeles with Trump's sending of the National Guard to put
down the protests that are happening of the immigrants.

Speaker 8 (01:16:25):
Rights movement there. You know, we're.

Speaker 9 (01:16:27):
Seeing Trump promised that he was going to be targeting
violent criminals with his deportations, and while you know, we
really reject the narrative that immigrants are criminals at all,
and we're also seeing just a flagrant violation of immigration
laws happening all across the country. So we're we're here
today to say that immigrants are welcome in our state,

(01:16:50):
immigrants are not criminals, and to condemn this this repression
that we're seeing from the National Guard in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
All right, I'm gonna I'm going to jump in here.
There there was a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
So, first of all, she's a socialist so, all right,
nice to know there's a well we already knew they
were there, but a whole socialist party here in Denver.
She she talked about Trump wanting to put down the protests. Trump,
first of all, he never Trump doesn't want to put
down protests. Trump wants to stop violence. There's a there's

(01:17:25):
a very different Those are very different things. And almost
everybody in America except somebody who is of the mindset
to join an organization called the Party of Socialism and
whatever the rest of her party's name was, and liberation, right, liberation.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Give me a break.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
So, but somebody like that might live in this world where,
you know, illegal aliens.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Can't be criminals.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
I wasn't even sure what she meant when she was
saying that, but I think she's trying to say that
there's no such thing as an ill alien, but obviously
there is. That's not the same thing as saying that
every illegal alien is a criminal in the sense of
a crime committed while in the country, separate from crossing
the border illegally. But I do think there is one

(01:18:17):
point that she made that I want to re emphasize
that I kind of sort of agree with where I
think Trump needs to be careful and that is and
I'll probably talk about this more tomorrow rather than today,
but this is where is the Trump administration going to
look for illegal aliens to deport? And when they start

(01:18:48):
doing workplace enforcement and I mentioned this briefly earlier, but
when they start doing workplace enforcement, this is where I
think things get very tricky. Let me give you a
quote from Nick Gillespie, who's a hardcore libertarian, is at
Reason magazine. That means he is whatever. The opposite of
a hawk is a dove on illegal aliens, on immigration generally.

(01:19:14):
And here's what he said. Because I think he's right,
and I think that crazy socialist is right about this.
Arresting nail salon workers, people in clothing wholesalers, and day
laborers is where Trump's immigration mania goes to die. Immigrations
want criminals deported, not hardworking immigrants cutting lawns, tending children,
delivering food.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
I think that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
I know that within my listening audience there are people
who are yelling at the radio right now saying no,
if you're here in the country illegally, you should go.
That is not where most Americans are and as a
political matter, Trump needs to be very careful in that
Republicans only have a few seat majority in the House
and if they lose that and history.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
Would suggest that they will. But if they do, Trump
is not going to get anything.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
Else done as far as legislation, anything he cares about,
at least for the rest of his time in office,
and perhaps the next Republican running for president will lose
as well. Americans do not want to see ice rating businesses.
Where as Nick puts it, hard working immigrants are delivering

(01:20:24):
food or cutting laws or doing whatever else they're doing.
People who maybe have worked in these businesses for years
never committed a crime actually paying payroll taxes because they're
using someone else's Social Security number, which is not great.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
What we need to do is, rather than get rid.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
Of these people, come up with a program that makes
sense where they can have a work visa where they
pay taxes.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
But are not on a path to citizenship.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
So not a kind of visa that puts you on
a path to a Green Carter citizenship.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
This is what we need.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
I think Trump knows it, but it's not going to
be easy for him because his hardcore magabase doesn't think
that way. I'm so happy to welcome Leland Venter back
to the show. Leland is so dedicated to joining the
Ross Kaminski Show that he's he's decided to be here
today with us instead of on his honeymoon, and that

(01:21:24):
I appreciate very very much.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Leland.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Congratulations and uh yeah, your weddings and People magazine.

Speaker 10 (01:21:34):
Well we know it's not not in People magazine because
of how I look.

Speaker 6 (01:21:38):
How about that.

Speaker 10 (01:21:39):
Well the hair, Yeah, well you're you're you're very kind
ros to just remember, real friends show up, That's what
That's why I'm here for you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
Uh huh uh huh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
And but seriously, congratulations, what a fabulous thing. And uh,
You've told me quite a bit about Rachel, but I
haven't met her yet and I can't wait to meet
her in person. But really, just tell us a little
bit about your wedding. And I want to know about
the ring bearer. Oh, the ring bear.

Speaker 6 (01:22:06):
The ring bear is Dutch, who was our is our
black lab And I'll put it this way.

Speaker 10 (01:22:12):
I think after his performance it's one of those one
and done things. There wasn't a lot of people who
are now grappling for his.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Services to elaborate a little bit to paint a picture.

Speaker 10 (01:22:27):
He just you know, running running down the aisle back
and forth.

Speaker 6 (01:22:31):
He probably did not they're there.

Speaker 10 (01:22:34):
They're Perhaps ring bearers were slightly more dedicated to their
job than to getting pets from everybody along.

Speaker 6 (01:22:40):
The aisle than he was.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
That's really funny.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
So whose idea was it for your wedding to get
into People magazine?

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
How did that happen? I don't.

Speaker 10 (01:22:52):
I don't know these things, Ross, They just happened in
the night. They just these things happened to me. Definitely
not my idea.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
So so you are even a little bit older than
I was when I got married. We're both fairly fairly
old at getting at getting married some years ago. Let's say,
when you got to your mid thirties, did you did
you expect to get married or were you thinking you
were going to live life as a happy bachelor forever
or like, was this kind of a surprise for you?

Speaker 10 (01:23:21):
You know, Ross, I didn't know that there was a
Relationship Hour on koa Wednesday afternoon.

Speaker 6 (01:23:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:23:32):
So I will say this in my defense, I spent
four years overseas, and I feel like when you're overseas,
those years.

Speaker 6 (01:23:39):
Don't really count in your life. So I'm really like
thirty eight getting married.

Speaker 10 (01:23:43):
So I yeah, I think I said this at the
wedding to both my id to the to the assembled
group that in in that room we had of sixty people,
we had a thousand combined years of marriage.

Speaker 6 (01:24:05):
So my parents were married fifty three years. Actually yesterday
was their anniversary.

Speaker 10 (01:24:09):
So I told Rachel we have nineteen thousand, three hundred
and fifty three days to go, and her parents have
been married forty plus years. And I think what was
interesting when both Rachel and I met, because we were
both older and had never been married, is we both
discussed how we really waited until we found a relationship

(01:24:30):
that was going to be like the one our parents
had and worthy of that kind of commitment.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
That's a great answer, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
I don't think I properly introduced Leland. I just started
talking to him like we showed up to have a
beer together.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
So this is Leland Vindert.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
He hosts on Balance on News Nation at seven pm.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
And ten pm Mountain time.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
He also puts out every day every day that he
has a show and a daily email. It actually comes
in the aff noon, which I think is great because
I get bombarded with all kinds of stuff in the morning,
and I end up not paying that much attention to it.
But his daily email is called war Notes. You can
go to warnoes dot com. You can sign up for free,
and you should as Leland. As Leland says, with not

(01:25:15):
too much humility, you will be much smarter if you
read his daily email. So I will say you will
be much smarter if you if you read his daily
his daily email. I love your story and I'm just
I'm about to do that's right. Well, I don't know.
I played an interview earlier with a with a girl
who's a member of the party, the Socialist Party for

(01:25:36):
Liberation here in Denver. I don't think she cares to
be smarter, but most most people do. Last thing on
the whole relationship our thing. I love that. So if
you take out your four years in the Middle East,
then you and I were with the same age when
we got married, and also first marriage for both of us.
But what I liked about your story that isn't the
same for my story, although would apply to my wife

(01:25:58):
but not to me, is you had your parents as
role models for a great, long lasting marriage, and I didn't.
Kristin did, But I love that both of you have
parents were still together after all these years, and just
you know, modeling that to use an overused phraseology.

Speaker 10 (01:26:21):
Yeah, it's been very important in both hers and my life.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
All right, let's move away from the relationship hour, which
you probably will you apparently didn't expect, but you should have.
So I want to talk a little bit about all
this stuff going on with the ice protests and whether
you think it's as as odd a choice as I
think it is for people to be waving Mexican flags

(01:26:46):
in these protests.

Speaker 10 (01:26:50):
Well, I think it's an odd choice if you, like me,
loves America and thinks that while it is still imperfect,
it is on its way as it always has been,
to being a more perfect union, and that America is
still the last best hope in the world. I don't
think these folks do, and I don't think these folks

(01:27:12):
who are waving Mexican flags and throwing molotov cocktails at
police believe that being an American comes with rights and responsibilities,
and that we are all to be citizens requires us

(01:27:33):
to be sacrificial, and that what makes America great, no
pun intended, is the hard work of its citizens and.

Speaker 6 (01:27:44):
The sacrifice of its citizens. That does not seem to
be values that.

Speaker 10 (01:27:49):
The people waving Mexican flags, throwing molotov cocktails, throwing.

Speaker 6 (01:27:54):
Large pieces of concrete at police.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
Embody two thirds of your show last night, and you
had a lady on who I think she's a member. Oh,
you sent me a text member of con representative. Okay,
I actually saw it.

Speaker 6 (01:28:11):
The congresswoman from California.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
Okay, so you just texted me this thing. But I
want you to know I actually did see it on
your show last night. I was watching and I thought
her answers I found.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
Surprising.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
Maybe I shouldn't, but it's surprising in the sense of
won't they ever learn, Like I've heard this so many
times before, these same lines, and they keep losing with it.

Speaker 4 (01:28:37):
Well.

Speaker 10 (01:28:37):
What was surprising to me about her as a member
of Congress that was she could not answer really basic questions,
really basic questions about you know, connect the dots for
me from how we went from peaceful protests against immigration.

Speaker 6 (01:28:54):
Raids to looting the apples store.

Speaker 10 (01:28:57):
Explain to me how the National Guard is is escalating things?
How are they the problem? People can go watch the
interview for themselves.

Speaker 6 (01:29:09):
It's on my Twitter account. I'm sure to be on
yours as well.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
Ross.

Speaker 10 (01:29:12):
But I think what it shows is that Democrats at
all have no plan other than to be against Donald Trump.
And that's really what this is exposed. And we saw
it last night when Gavin Newsom spoke, We've seen it
today that there is there is no plan other than

(01:29:34):
whatever Trump is for whatever Trump is doing, we're against
because it's awful.

Speaker 6 (01:29:40):
Trump could come out.

Speaker 10 (01:29:41):
And say we're going to cure cancer and the Democrats
would say, see, you're just trying to get more money
in the pharmaceutical companies.

Speaker 6 (01:29:50):
So that really now in twenty twenty, that kind of worked.
But I think what we're seeing.

Speaker 10 (01:30:00):
Is the end effect of Donald Trump's ability to sort
of break the minds of his political opponents, which he
has effectively done, I think fully with Democrats.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
So again go back to something I said a moment ago.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
It's I understand that Trump can cause people to lose
their minds. What what surprises me still even understanding that,
is how some of these folks can lose an election, lose,
lose House seats, lose Senate seats, and frankly lose to
Donald Trump, who was not a strong candidate by making

(01:30:38):
these arguments and statements like these, you know, demonizing ice
rather than illegal alien criminals and so on, and yet
they don't stop. It's the it's the why don't they
ever learn? Part that really has me a little bit mystified.

Speaker 10 (01:30:56):
I think it's a fair question. Learning's hard, and I
think to be fair when you have someone who you
find so offensive. And remember what the Democratic Party really,
starting with Obama, but sort of with Obama as president,

(01:31:16):
not Obama as candidates, has become.

Speaker 6 (01:31:20):
The party of progressivism.

Speaker 10 (01:31:23):
Now you can argue exactly what their policies are, but
their their worldview has become more and more anti American,
in that America is not exceptional. America is racist, America
is transphobic, America is broken the neo Marxist worldview that

(01:31:45):
there are the oppressed and the oppressors based solely on outcomes,
and therefore the only way for America to realize its
greatness is to institute some type of Marxist.

Speaker 6 (01:31:56):
Like ideas that's effectively and I.

Speaker 10 (01:31:59):
Mean a little bit pejorative of what the Democratic Party is.
And Donald Trump, in his also very imperfect.

Speaker 6 (01:32:08):
Way, came in and said, no.

Speaker 10 (01:32:11):
America is America, and we saw an election in twenty sixteen,
we saw an election in twenty twenty four that that
sided with For as much as people didn't like and
don't like Donald Trump, they like less democratic policies and progressivism.

Speaker 6 (01:32:31):
And so for Democrats.

Speaker 10 (01:32:33):
Giving up this sincerely held belief that Donald Trump is
the devil's politician is something that's really hard, and he
just effectively breaks their breaks any sense of normalcy.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
You know what.

Speaker 10 (01:32:52):
The one person who seems to be able to speak
as mine is John Fetterman from Pennsylvania and he's been
ostracized by the Democratic Party.

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
Sticking still with this for one more minute and then
we'll switch gears. I actually laughed out loud, and you
probably did too when the camera wasn't on you for
a moment when Gavin Newsom started his thing and the
audio feed failed, and then later I think the whole
feed failed. It was I don't know there was there
was something poetic about that. But when I see Gavin

(01:33:26):
Newsom or think of Gavin Newsom, the word smarmy always
comes into my mind. Just too slick, too polished, two
pole tested, too hipocritical to everything. But the dude is
clearly running for president, right, Yeah, it kind.

Speaker 10 (01:33:43):
Of reminded me of Ron DeSantis' campaign launch.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 10 (01:33:49):
Remember when he launched on Twitter because he was going
to be all new age and cool, and then the
stream failed and nothing worked and it was a complete mass.

Speaker 2 (01:33:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:33:58):
I think that's a great look.

Speaker 10 (01:34:00):
Everyone says they want politicians to be authentic, and somehow
that has come to mean people trying to mimic Donald
Trump's approach. Donald Trump isn't authentic because he's arrogant and bombastic.
Donald Trump is arrogant and bombastic and acts that way
as a politician, and.

Speaker 6 (01:34:21):
Therefore is authentic.

Speaker 10 (01:34:25):
Unfortunately, I think for Gavin Newsom, everyone is getting to
see the real Gavin Newsom in the same way everybody
in Iowa and New Hampshire got to see the real
Ron DeSantis. Nothing kills a bad product faster than good advertising.

Speaker 6 (01:34:45):
And there's no there's no surprise the.

Speaker 10 (01:34:48):
Gavin Newsom wanted to do his speech at six point
thirty Pacific time. Why because all of the stations.

Speaker 6 (01:34:57):
In we're in local news.

Speaker 10 (01:35:01):
Therefore they took the six thirty You know, they were
in their six thirty local newscast, so therefore they took
Gavenue some speech.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
I'll I'll just add that what you said. You know
what kills a bad brand is good advertising. That's exactly
also what happened to Kamala Harris. Right, the more people
got to know her, the more the more her numbers dropped.
All right, we have just a couple of minutes left.
We're talking with Leland Vedder Leland Vetter from News Nation.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
His show was called On Balance.

Speaker 1 (01:35:27):
It is the show that Kristin and I watch every
night or record and watch later if we can't watch
it that moment seven pm Mountain Time. Replay at ten
pm Mountain Time. We watched the earlier one. What are
you working on for tonight's show? That doesn't have anything
to do with protests or immigration.

Speaker 6 (01:35:46):
Nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:35:48):
It's that dominant a story.

Speaker 10 (01:35:49):
Huh well, oh, actually you know what, I take that back.

Speaker 6 (01:35:55):
I just had to look at our rundown.

Speaker 10 (01:35:56):
Yes, it is that dominant of a story because I think,
as you point out, it defines the political conversation of
our time, and it becomes a.

Speaker 6 (01:36:08):
Proxy for it.

Speaker 10 (01:36:08):
For example, you know the mayor of Chicago now saying
Donald Trump is a tyrant.

Speaker 6 (01:36:12):
Okay, there are.

Speaker 10 (01:36:13):
Multiple kids, There are multiple schools in Chicago where there's
not a single kid who can read it grade level.
And the mayor of Chicago's worried about Donald Trump. So
that tells you what's going on.

Speaker 6 (01:36:28):
One thing we are working on.

Speaker 10 (01:36:29):
Brian Enton, a great reporter, has some exclusive reporting about
the attempted Chinese takeover by purchase of the waters supply
for much.

Speaker 6 (01:36:41):
Of New Hampshire. Wow by a Chinese company.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
All right, got to see that, folks.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
You got to check out News Nation, set your DVR,
watch it every night at six pm, or if you're
a later person than I am, at ten pm.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
It's the best show on cable news.

Speaker 1 (01:36:58):
Go to war notes dot com, w A R n
O t e s Warnoes dot com and sign up
for Leland's free daily email.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
You will be smarter, Leland.

Speaker 1 (01:37:08):
My friend, Congratulations, it looks like seriously, it looks like
it was a beautiful and meaningful wedding despite the ring
bearer and uh and I look forward to toasting with
you in person one day soon.

Speaker 6 (01:37:22):
It's gonna be a lot of fun. Ross.

Speaker 10 (01:37:24):
I was just honored to be the most important guest
at Rachel Putnam's wedding.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
And you always will be thank you. Thank you all right,
that's uh, that's great. So yeah, oh my gosh, my
friend got married. How crazy is that?

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
Uh? So let me just follow up.

Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
Actually I've only got about a minute left, so let
me just follow up on that. How was That's a
very interesting analysis, right. So normally when you're gonna do
a radio show or a TV show, you you work
in a lot of stuff. You work in a lot
of different topics. I work in. I try to work
a lot of topics in on the show, and I
noticed even for myself for today, I actually went back

(01:38:06):
to the topic of the immigration protests more than the
enforcement but that's a small part of the conversation. But
the protests, I talked about it on a national scale.
I talked about the la stuff. I played audio from
Tony Maynus's interview with a socialist at the protests here
in Denver. We talked a little about how the Denver

(01:38:26):
stuff didn't get too out of hand, which was great
and for me coming back to a topic that many
times in my own show, because usually I only cover
a topic once or at the most twice, but I
think I did three or four times on that, So
actually I wasn't all that. Surprised when Leland said that
the immigration stuff and the protests and all that is

(01:38:48):
his only topic.

Speaker 2 (01:38:49):
Turns out he has one more. But I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:52):
This is what's going on in America right now, and
it it impacts, It touches on so many different aspects
of our politics.

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
The tribalism is certainly part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
The protests, the question of illegal immigrants and then separately
illegal immigrant criminals. How Democrats talk about it, how Republicans
talk about it, and who wins and loses elections on
the issue, it's all really important. It all is really fascinating,
and for the moment, it really is the issue that

(01:39:29):
is capturing the zeitgeist of this time in American politics.
All right, that's all I've got for you today. I will,
of course be back tomorrow. Tomorrow I'm going to do
my show plus an extra half an hour, the first
half hour of what would be Mandy's show, because there's
an early baseball game, an early Rockies game, tomorrow. So

(01:39:49):
enjoy the rest of your Wednesday, and I'll talk with
you in twenty one hours.

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