Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am very pleased to welcome to the show Phil Wiser,
who is a friend of mine and the Attorney General
of the state of Colorado and also a candidate for governor.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And we're going to talk about all that.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
But just one thing I'm gonna tell listeners and just
Phil so he knows it's in my brain, is we're
going to kind of have two separate conversations, and I'm
going to really keep his The AG conversation will do first,
and then candidate conversation will we'll do second, And we're
going to kind of keep those things separate. So first
(00:39):
before we jump into ag issues, Phil, you mentioned to
me before we started talking that you're doing a law
enforcement appreciation a day or event at your offices, and.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I wonder if you just tell us a little about that.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thanks Ross.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
We every year on January ninth, celebrate Law Enforcement Appreciation Day,
and when you think about the sacrifices that law enforcement makes,
this is an important opportunity. We try to do this
every week because we're in the business here of encouraging
the recruitment or the training and the excellence of law enforcement.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
But we make a point of having a ceremony and
this year. It's unique, Russ. You may remember January first,
a year ago.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Our building was attacked. It was a totally random thing.
People thought it might have had some political motivation.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It didn't.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
It was someone who was high end math who've gotten
a car accident, had a gun, came in, went to
the seventy four of our building and started lighting fires,
which triggered the sprinklers. It did a lot of damage.
The Denver Police State Patrols showed up and they managed
to apprehend the perpetrator without any harm to anybody. We're
honoring those officers today who showed up and who protected
(01:52):
our building and us. And that is a unique situation
for me as Attorney General to actually be in the
position of being a victim of a crime, to have
law enforcement responding work nauseum.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Today. There'll be some coverage of it, certainly, we will
put it up.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And I just want to start by acknowledging this important
day and the officers who came and served so honorably
and effectively.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, thank you for that, for the day and for
the message. Let me just actually ask you one follow up.
This is sort of a macro kind of question.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Uh. Several years ago across.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
The whole country after the George Floyd stuff, and there
was a mood that was it was it was difficult
for law enforcement officers, and it also hurt recruiting at
law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I realized, you're not police, right, You're.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Part of the justice system, but you are not part
of the police department, but you interact with them every day.
And I'm I'm kind of curious, how would you how
would you describe any change in tone, any change in
in in vibe to use an overword, overused word these
days about law enforcement generally from your perspective.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
This is an important point to touch on in the
sad and painful reality and ross here in the world
where you see this. Nobody covers the plane that lands safely.
And so I mentioned something which we shouldn't take for granted. Right,
we had someone with a gun causing damage. Nobody was hurt,
(03:28):
the perpetrator was apprehended. No law enforcement was a hurt.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That didn't get coverage.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
The attack and the building got coverage, but the effectiveness
of law enforcement was kind of glossed over. But then
you have something like what happened to Christian Glass, which
was a tragedy and obviously a learning opportunity. He was
someone who's Menaleel who ended up dead in an interaction
with law enforcement that gets huge coverage, and so part
of what happened after George Floyd was a huge microscope
(03:56):
on law enforcement and failings. And the challenge that this poses,
and you put it well, is the narrative can sometimes
paint all police officers as if they are you know,
Derek Chauvin, and nothing is further from the truth. I
work regularly with law enforcement officers who have the highest
integrity and commitment to service, and what we have had
(04:20):
a challenge to do, as you put it well, is
to counter the narrative of those bad apples. And what
we did in ouric department, we have this Peace Officer
Standards and training program.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
We did a My Why series.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
It didn't quite go viral that we hoped, but we
talked to law enforcement officers why are you serving? Why
are you risking your life to serve the public, To
try to get out a more positive narrative. I think
the narrative is switching. We've had a number of episodes
we saw this on January sixth at the Capitol where
we've been able to celebrate some law enforcement to change
(04:52):
the narrative away from what you might look as a
need deer around Derek Chauvin.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And that's something we're going to keep working on.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Which is celebrating lawnface worseman, making sure people know we
need people in this profession, and so much support of victims,
so much of port of public safety is because of
law enforcement officers.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay, one more on this, as long as you got me,
got me talking and thinking about some of some of
this stuff, and and kind of and kind of following
up on your point about you know, the dog that
didn't bark in the wheel that didn't squeak, and right,
and so all the good stuff that happens all the
time doesn't get any news coverage. Uh So, for some
(05:29):
years in Colorado's third largest city of Aurora, there have
been some policing difficulties and part of that resulted in
something called the Consent Decree, if I understand correctly, and
you were involved with much of that, and I haven't
heard very much about it lately. And there is a
new chief in Aurora right now, who I think came
(05:50):
from LAPD if I remember right, I could be wrong
on that and so is there anything you want to update,
you know, either with sort of data points or with
just how you're feeling about policing and Aurora and whatever
is required of them being in communication with your office.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I had my hearing yesterday with the Joint Session of
the House and Sentenorcial committees, and we.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Talked about this issue.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
The point I'd start with, and this is something Aurora
has embraced in the conversation we've had with them. They
need community trust, they need trust in law enforcement to
be able to provide for a public safety and.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
That has been greatly strained.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And the police chief who's currently there, is very much
committed to the consent decree ass the city manager as
a way to build committee trust.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
And what this.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Consentum has required is a number of steps improving things.
For example, like when you have an officer involved shooting
or another incident, what's the incident review process look like?
Is it one of genuine continuous improvement, How do we
learn from the experience or is it more Hey, we're
just going to ignore it and go on and basically
pretend it didn't happen. And we've seen improvements that are
(07:08):
happening and there's a monitor who does public.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Reports that are available for people to look at.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
One point I've made which is worth noting here, Unlike
our largest city, Denver, Aurora doesn't have any form of
an ongoing monitor that I believe can be valuable in
ensuring continued and increasing confidence in policing and Aurora. And
that's something that the city manager and the police chief
is embraced as well. We want to keep the trend line.
(07:34):
If you will, going keep the work of continuous improving
police and going.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
The content at some point will come to an end.
The question is what will happen next.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
All right, let's switch gears, but still sticking with AG stuff.
You put out a statement a couple of days ago
on an issue that I've actually spoken with listeners about
some weeks ago, regarding the use by large landlords of
software that it is at least alleged allows landlords to
(08:07):
sort of with a wink and a nod, I guess
kalude will probably be the word you'll use, but I
don't want to put words in your mouth, but allows
what apparently you and the federal government are claiming might
be illegal activity when it comes to how rents get
set Can you elaborate on the lawsuit in Colorado's place?
Speaker 4 (08:28):
In it Ross? You set it up very well. This
is the way the anti trust law works. If you're
competing with the arrival, you both offer, you know, apartments
for rent. You are not allowed to sit down with
your rival and say, hey, if you raise your rents
and I raise mind, we're both gonna do better. So
(08:48):
instead of competing with one another, how about we fix
prices together. That is what anti trust lawyers call her
say illegal, it is not allowed. We didn't have that happen,
but we had what I might call the digital version
of price fixing. Both landlords use the same software program.
(09:09):
Both put in their private price the information into the
software program, and the software program not only told them
to raise prices, but it told them in some cases
not to rent out inventory at all because that would
further jack up prices. There was a study done of
Denver and the result was one hundred and thirty six
dollars a month more being charged for tenants.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
By companies who use the software. And then I want
to make one critical point.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
There are a lot of landlers out there who aren't
using this software, who are not colluding I don't want
those folks to be unfairly disadvantaged in the marketplace because
they're following the rules, while these other companies are breaking
the rules, colluding using this non public information to set
prices in.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Conjunction with one another in the way their hurts tenants.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Just to clarify something, you say both landlords. I believe
the federal lawsuit has six defendants. So are there two
who were particularly doing this in Colorado?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Which is why you said both?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Now?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I said both because I was using it as an example.
You are correct.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
We named six different companies. That was a national effort.
Gray Star is the number one landlord who uses this
I think in Colorado. There are a few others who
are operating in Colorado as well. Our lawsuit is part
of a multi state lawsuit, which I should say is bipartisan.
And these are major corporate landlerds who've used this software
(10:39):
program Real Page, and I don't have the exact number,
but it's substantial.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
In Denver.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
The total number of apartments that are using this software
program a real Page in Denver is a substantial amount.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So it can have an influence in the.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Marketplace, and it is depriving tenants of competition.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Is this a federal lawsuit that you're joining in or
is it multiple state lawsuits?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
What is it or both?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
The Federal Department of Justice is leading this lawsuit. Colorado,
Tennessee and a number of other states are arm in
arm with the Feds. And one of the instant questions
will be with a new administration coming out in Washington.
We very much hope that the incoming Department of Justice
will keep this lawsuit going forward, but if they weren't,
we're committed to this in Colorado. So is the multi
state coalition.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
One narrow question of law? And I think I know
the answer, but I'm going to ask you anyway you.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Described a landlord saying, in order to try to get
rents a little higher, I'm going to just you know,
we are going to, as a group, based on the software,
maybe not rent out some apartments and diminished supply, and
that will cause prices to go up.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
If it were just one landlord only managing.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
His own properties, not talking with anyone, and not using
any software that talks with anyone, that behavior of saying,
you know what, I'm just not going to rent something
out right now is perfectly legal, right So the issue
we're dealing with here is is the collusion.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
You've answered your own questions very well on the anti
trust laws. Say, if you're acting on your own and
you decide not to rent something, or you decide.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
What price is to set, that's all good.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
But you can't sit down with the rival and say
we're both going withhold supply and have the purpose of
raising prices. Because when one landlord acting on your own
withhold supply, they're giving up money on the table. That
is often viewed as economically irrational. But if you know
you can do it in coordination with others to jack
up prices, what would have been irrational acting on your
(12:38):
own becomes a very effective business strategy.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
That's praying on consumers.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
And that's why we call this type of joint conduct predatory,
because companies are praying on consumers through collusion. That is
a core violation of the any trust laws. That's the
issue in this case.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Okay, I let's do one more minute on this and
then we're going to switch to political stuff. But one
more minute on this. I'm gonna play the other guy's attorney.
I'm gonna play I'm gonna play Gray Starr. Badly, of course,
But I'll do this, mister Attorney General.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I haven't spoken to anybody. I have never spoken to.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
An executive or an employee of any of these other
firms that are mentioned in this lawsuit. They happen to
be in the same business that I'm in, and I'm
just using software as a tool, just like any other
business might use software as a tool to help me
manage inventory.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
The evidence in this case is quite clear.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
The companies like Gray Starr know that what they're getting
with Real Page is non public information and a program
that is giving it guidance based on non public information
that has both the purpose and the effect of coordinating
price setting. And to make matters worse, Real Page got
(13:54):
together these corporate landlords on a regular basis for calls
with one another where they discussed how they might coordinate pricing.
Everything about this scheme smacks of collusion. And just because
you didn't sit down together in the same room and
set prices and instead use the software program to achieve
(14:15):
the same effect doesn't get you off the hook.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Well, that's an example of the kind of stuff that'll
be going.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
On in the court room.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So if this goes to court, a lot of these
things get settled. I wouldn't be very surprised if this
one doesn't get settled. I would not be surprised to
see this one actually end up in court. But you're
more expert on that than I am. All right, let's
switch gears. We got a few minutes left. And as
I mentioned the listeners at the beginning of the conversation,
I wanted to have a very hard demarcation for more
(14:41):
Fulfill's benefit than mine. I don't really care, but just
to keep Fill on the right side of the law
and all that stuff, because I wouldn't want him to
have to prosecute himself. Now we're going to switch to
talking politics and move away from He's going to take
off his AG hat and put on the hat of
a guy who announced recently that he's running for governor. So,
mister candidate Phil Wiser, why do you want to be
(15:03):
governor of Colorado?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Ross? It's pretty simple.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I love Colorado, and I care about serving the people
of Colorado.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
The work I'm doing is AG We've been talking about it.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Protecting tenants in the housing situation, stopping the corner Albertson's merger,
worried about food prices, worried about affordability, We talked about
protecting public safety. We could talk about protecting our land,
air and water. And I'd love to get in a
word about youth mental health. These are issues I am
passionate about serving, and in my life there's nothing that's
been more meaningful than being able to serve the people
of Colorado.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I'm able to go across our great.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
State, listen to communities about issues of concern, like the
opioid crisis, and then get to work.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
To deliver results. That's the leadership I've brought as Attorney General.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
We've talked about the opiate crisis and bringing it back
eight hundred million dollars by holding big Pharmato account, setting
up a nationally recognized framework to support more drug treatment
recovery services all across our state. And I know there's
a lot more work to do on all these fronts,
and as governor, I can continue working on behalf of
the people of Colorado, taking on big fights and delivering results.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
About a week ago, which was probably after roughly the
first week of your being a candidate, you put out
press release. I'm reading the headline Wiser for Governor campaign
raises one hundred and fifty seven six hundred and fifty
seven dollars in the first day, so maybe that was
right after the first day and announces key endorsements, being
as objective as you can right now, and with the
(16:31):
understanding that I am not that well tied into democratic
politics here, how how is the reaction to your candidacy
so far?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Russ.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I've said a few metaphors on this. When you're in
the bottle charge to eat the label or we're in
either hurricane, it's totally hard to see everything, so I
have limited visibility. But from what I have I have
gotten such wonderful support. You mentioned key endorsers. One of
them is Governor Roy Romer, who I could talk about
(17:01):
all day as a role model, as a mentor, as
a friend, and then Congressman at pro Mutter and that
to me is important because when you have people of
that stature who get behind my candidacy and who provide
the mentorship and support.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
It's meaningful.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
And obviously the financial contributions are assigned. I think we're
already over a thousand people sign up right away to
say we want to contribute to support you. It's a
weird thing in politics when you put yourself out there
and then you don't know what's going to happen. And
for the first week, I can say I am feeling
a lot of great support, So I'm very encouraged.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
We're clearly a blue state.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
There's no Republican elected statewide in this state, and I
doubt there will be very soon. On the other hand,
like many other places, we drifted a little bit to
the right, maybe less than.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Some others, we drifted a little bit to the right
in the last election.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Does anything about the overall political mood of the country
or the state, or maybe a little less disire for
some of that far left stuff that we've seen from
many corners change how you think about how you would govern.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I got into running for office because I wanted to serve,
and I started with the premise that I was going
to be true to myself. I was going to be
intellectually honest about things, and I was going to make
a point of listening to everybody.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
One of the most meaningful signs.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
That that path is working was when Senator Cleeve Simpson,
who is a Republican from the Stanley's Valley, talked about
my candidacy. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here. I believe
Phil generally cares about Colorado. He shows up in the
valley with an amut of votes because he wants to
serve in a composite difference.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
That's the message I want.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
I don't want people to see me as a candidate
of one segment, but I want people to see me
as someone who cares about everybody, who is committed to
listening and dialogue. And as my campaign goes forward, I
believe we'll demonstrate that. If you look at the whole
steering committee we re leased of endorsements. It's not everyone
who's necessarily supporting me, but it's a representative list from
across the whole state. John Stop from Southeast Colorado, who's
(19:08):
taught me a lot about water, or Barbara McLoughlin from
Durango and Bernie Busher from Grand Junction. They're all on
the team, along with ROHYI, Roamer at promoter and others.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Okay, I just have about forty seconds left, but I
think I would like to end by asking you to
elaborate on something that you said you would like to
talk about for a moment, which is youth mental health.
I know this is a thing you have paid close
attention to. We've talked about safety tell on the show,
probably at least twice. I just have a few seconds,
but say whatever you want to say about that issue.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I appreciate that we've got a crisis on our hands. Ross.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
You and I are both parents of people who are
young people, and the level of loneliness, the level of
people hooked into their phones, the impact of social media,
the lack of trusted adults who are in relationship with
young people, all are deep concerns that I have. I'm
working hard on this as Attorney General, where we're going
to give out money that we got by suing Jewel
(20:02):
to make a difference building school community partnerships.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
There is so much more than needs to be done
on this.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I'm also proposing a voluntary youth service Corps for people
that graduate high school or college to give young people
more meeting and purpose. This is part of what I
want to accomplish. It's a great concern to me as
a parent, attorney general and as a public servant.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Phil Wiser is Attorney General of the State of Colorado
and an announced candidate for governor of the State of Colorado.
Thank you for your time and the in depth conversation
today Phil always appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Likewise, Ross, thank you all right,
I am very pleased to welcome to the show Phil Wiser,
who is a friend of mine and the Attorney General
of the state of Colorado and also a candidate for governor.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And we're going to talk about all that.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
But just one thing I'm gonna tell listeners and just
Phil so he knows it's in my brain, is we're
going to kind of have two separate conversations, and I'm
going to really keep his The AG conversation will do first,
and then candidate conversation will we'll do second, And we're
going to kind of keep those things separate. So first
(00:39):
before we jump into ag issues, Phil, you mentioned to
me before we started talking that you're doing a law
enforcement appreciation a day or event at your offices, and.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I wonder if you just tell us a little about that.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thanks Ross.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
We every year on January ninth, celebrate Law Enforcement Appreciation Day,
and when you think about the sacrifices that law enforcement makes,
this is an important opportunity. We try to do this
every week because we're in the business here of encouraging
the recruitment or the training and the excellence of law enforcement.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
But we make a point of having a ceremony and
this year. It's unique, Russ. You may remember January first,
a year ago.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Our building was attacked. It was a totally random thing.
People thought it might have had some political motivation.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It didn't.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
It was someone who was high end math who've gotten
a car accident, had a gun, came in, went to
the seventy four of our building and started lighting fires,
which triggered the sprinklers. It did a lot of damage.
The Denver Police State Patrols showed up and they managed
to apprehend the perpetrator without any harm to anybody. We're
honoring those officers today who showed up and who protected
(01:52):
our building and us. And that is a unique situation
for me as Attorney General to actually be in the
position of being a victim of a crime, to have
law enforcement responding work nauseum.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Today. There'll be some coverage of it, certainly, we will
put it up.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And I just want to start by acknowledging this important
day and the officers who came and served so honorably
and effectively.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, thank you for that, for the day and for
the message. Let me just actually ask you one follow up.
This is sort of a macro kind of question.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Uh. Several years ago across.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
The whole country after the George Floyd stuff, and there
was a mood that was it was it was difficult
for law enforcement officers, and it also hurt recruiting at
law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I realized, you're not police, right, You're.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Part of the justice system, but you are not part
of the police department, but you interact with them every day.
And I'm I'm kind of curious, how would you how
would you describe any change in tone, any change in
in in vibe to use an overword, overused word these
days about law enforcement generally from your perspective.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
This is an important point to touch on in the
sad and painful reality and ross here in the world
where you see this. Nobody covers the plane that lands safely.
And so I mentioned something which we shouldn't take for granted. Right,
we had someone with a gun causing damage. Nobody was hurt,
(03:28):
the perpetrator was apprehended. No law enforcement was a hurt.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That didn't get coverage.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
The attack and the building got coverage, but the effectiveness
of law enforcement was kind of glossed over. But then
you have something like what happened to Christian Glass, which
was a tragedy and obviously a learning opportunity. He was
someone who's Menaleel who ended up dead in an interaction
with law enforcement that gets huge coverage, and so part
of what happened after George Floyd was a huge microscope
(03:56):
on law enforcement and failings. And the challenge that this poses,
and you put it well, is the narrative can sometimes
paint all police officers as if they are you know,
Derek Chauvin, and nothing is further from the truth. I
work regularly with law enforcement officers who have the highest
integrity and commitment to service, and what we have had
(04:20):
a challenge to do, as you put it well, is
to counter the narrative of those bad apples. And what
we did in ouric department, we have this Peace Officer
Standards and training program.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
We did a My Why series.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
It didn't quite go viral that we hoped, but we
talked to law enforcement officers why are you serving? Why
are you risking your life to serve the public, To
try to get out a more positive narrative. I think
the narrative is switching. We've had a number of episodes
we saw this on January sixth at the Capitol where
we've been able to celebrate some law enforcement to change
(04:52):
the narrative away from what you might look as a
need deer around Derek Chauvin.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And that's something we're going to keep working on.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Which is celebrating lawnface worseman, making sure people know we
need people in this profession, and so much support of victims,
so much of port of public safety is because of
law enforcement officers.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay, one more on this, as long as you got me,
got me talking and thinking about some of some of
this stuff, and and kind of and kind of following
up on your point about you know, the dog that
didn't bark in the wheel that didn't squeak, and right,
and so all the good stuff that happens all the
time doesn't get any news coverage. Uh So, for some
(05:29):
years in Colorado's third largest city of Aurora, there have
been some policing difficulties and part of that resulted in
something called the Consent Decree, if I understand correctly, and
you were involved with much of that, and I haven't
heard very much about it lately. And there is a
new chief in Aurora right now, who I think came
(05:50):
from LAPD if I remember right, I could be wrong
on that and so is there anything you want to update,
you know, either with sort of data points or with
just how you're feeling about policing and Aurora and whatever
is required of them being in communication with your office.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I had my hearing yesterday with the Joint Session of
the House and Sentenorcial committees, and we.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Talked about this issue.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
The point I'd start with, and this is something Aurora
has embraced in the conversation we've had with them. They
need community trust, they need trust in law enforcement to
be able to provide for a public safety and.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
That has been greatly strained.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And the police chief who's currently there, is very much
committed to the consent decree ass the city manager as
a way to build committee trust.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
And what this.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Consentum has required is a number of steps improving things.
For example, like when you have an officer involved shooting
or another incident, what's the incident review process look like?
Is it one of genuine continuous improvement, How do we
learn from the experience or is it more Hey, we're
just going to ignore it and go on and basically
pretend it didn't happen. And we've seen improvements that are
(07:08):
happening and there's a monitor who does public.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Reports that are available for people to look at.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
One point I've made which is worth noting here, Unlike
our largest city, Denver, Aurora doesn't have any form of
an ongoing monitor that I believe can be valuable in
ensuring continued and increasing confidence in policing and Aurora. And
that's something that the city manager and the police chief
is embraced as well. We want to keep the trend line.
(07:34):
If you will, going keep the work of continuous improving
police and going.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
The content at some point will come to an end.
The question is what will happen next.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
All right, let's switch gears, but still sticking with AG stuff.
You put out a statement a couple of days ago
on an issue that I've actually spoken with listeners about
some weeks ago, regarding the use by large landlords of
software that it is at least alleged allows landlords to
(08:07):
sort of with a wink and a nod, I guess
kalude will probably be the word you'll use, but I
don't want to put words in your mouth, but allows
what apparently you and the federal government are claiming might
be illegal activity when it comes to how rents get
set Can you elaborate on the lawsuit in Colorado's place?
Speaker 4 (08:28):
In it Ross? You set it up very well. This
is the way the anti trust law works. If you're
competing with the arrival, you both offer, you know, apartments
for rent. You are not allowed to sit down with
your rival and say, hey, if you raise your rents
and I raise mind, we're both gonna do better. So
(08:48):
instead of competing with one another, how about we fix
prices together. That is what anti trust lawyers call her
say illegal, it is not allowed. We didn't have that happen,
but we had what I might call the digital version
of price fixing. Both landlords use the same software program.
(09:09):
Both put in their private price the information into the
software program, and the software program not only told them
to raise prices, but it told them in some cases
not to rent out inventory at all because that would
further jack up prices. There was a study done of
Denver and the result was one hundred and thirty six
dollars a month more being charged for tenants.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
By companies who use the software. And then I want
to make one critical point.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
There are a lot of landlers out there who aren't
using this software, who are not colluding I don't want
those folks to be unfairly disadvantaged in the marketplace because
they're following the rules, while these other companies are breaking
the rules, colluding using this non public information to set
prices in.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Conjunction with one another in the way their hurts tenants.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Just to clarify something, you say both landlords. I believe
the federal lawsuit has six defendants. So are there two
who were particularly doing this in Colorado?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Which is why you said both?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Now?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I said both because I was using it as an example.
You are correct.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
We named six different companies. That was a national effort.
Gray Star is the number one landlord who uses this
I think in Colorado. There are a few others who
are operating in Colorado as well. Our lawsuit is part
of a multi state lawsuit, which I should say is bipartisan.
And these are major corporate landlerds who've used this software
(10:39):
program Real Page, and I don't have the exact number,
but it's substantial.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
In Denver.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
The total number of apartments that are using this software
program a real Page in Denver is a substantial amount.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So it can have an influence in the.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Marketplace, and it is depriving tenants of competition.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Is this a federal lawsuit that you're joining in or
is it multiple state lawsuits?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
What is it or both?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
The Federal Department of Justice is leading this lawsuit. Colorado,
Tennessee and a number of other states are arm in
arm with the Feds. And one of the instant questions
will be with a new administration coming out in Washington.
We very much hope that the incoming Department of Justice
will keep this lawsuit going forward, but if they weren't,
we're committed to this in Colorado. So is the multi
state coalition.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
One narrow question of law? And I think I know
the answer, but I'm going to ask you anyway you.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Described a landlord saying, in order to try to get
rents a little higher, I'm going to just you know,
we are going to, as a group, based on the software,
maybe not rent out some apartments and diminished supply, and
that will cause prices to go up.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
If it were just one landlord only managing.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
His own properties, not talking with anyone, and not using
any software that talks with anyone, that behavior of saying,
you know what, I'm just not going to rent something
out right now is perfectly legal, right So the issue
we're dealing with here is is the collusion.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
You've answered your own questions very well on the anti
trust laws. Say, if you're acting on your own and
you decide not to rent something, or you decide.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
What price is to set, that's all good.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
But you can't sit down with the rival and say
we're both going withhold supply and have the purpose of
raising prices. Because when one landlord acting on your own
withhold supply, they're giving up money on the table. That
is often viewed as economically irrational. But if you know
you can do it in coordination with others to jack
up prices, what would have been irrational acting on your
(12:38):
own becomes a very effective business strategy.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
That's praying on consumers.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
And that's why we call this type of joint conduct predatory,
because companies are praying on consumers through collusion. That is
a core violation of the any trust laws. That's the
issue in this case.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Okay, I let's do one more minute on this and
then we're going to switch to political stuff. But one
more minute on this. I'm gonna play the other guy's attorney.
I'm gonna play I'm gonna play Gray Starr. Badly, of course,
But I'll do this, mister Attorney General.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I haven't spoken to anybody. I have never spoken to.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
An executive or an employee of any of these other
firms that are mentioned in this lawsuit. They happen to
be in the same business that I'm in, and I'm
just using software as a tool, just like any other
business might use software as a tool to help me
manage inventory.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
The evidence in this case is quite clear.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
The companies like Gray Starr know that what they're getting
with Real Page is non public information and a program
that is giving it guidance based on non public information
that has both the purpose and the effect of coordinating
price setting. And to make matters worse, Real Page got
(13:54):
together these corporate landlords on a regular basis for calls
with one another where they discussed how they might coordinate pricing.
Everything about this scheme smacks of collusion. And just because
you didn't sit down together in the same room and
set prices and instead use the software program to achieve
(14:15):
the same effect doesn't get you off the hook.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Well, that's an example of the kind of stuff that'll
be going.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
On in the court room.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So if this goes to court, a lot of these
things get settled. I wouldn't be very surprised if this
one doesn't get settled. I would not be surprised to
see this one actually end up in court. But you're
more expert on that than I am. All right, let's
switch gears. We got a few minutes left. And as
I mentioned the listeners at the beginning of the conversation,
I wanted to have a very hard demarcation for more
(14:41):
Fulfill's benefit than mine. I don't really care, but just
to keep Fill on the right side of the law
and all that stuff, because I wouldn't want him to
have to prosecute himself. Now we're going to switch to
talking politics and move away from He's going to take
off his AG hat and put on the hat of
a guy who announced recently that he's running for governor. So,
mister candidate Phil Wiser, why do you want to be
(15:03):
governor of Colorado?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Ross? It's pretty simple.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I love Colorado, and I care about serving the people
of Colorado.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
The work I'm doing is AG We've been talking about it.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Protecting tenants in the housing situation, stopping the corner Albertson's merger,
worried about food prices, worried about affordability, We talked about
protecting public safety. We could talk about protecting our land,
air and water. And I'd love to get in a
word about youth mental health. These are issues I am
passionate about serving, and in my life there's nothing that's
been more meaningful than being able to serve the people
of Colorado.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I'm able to go across our great.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
State, listen to communities about issues of concern, like the
opioid crisis, and then get to work.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
To deliver results. That's the leadership I've brought as Attorney General.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
We've talked about the opiate crisis and bringing it back
eight hundred million dollars by holding big Pharmato account, setting
up a nationally recognized framework to support more drug treatment
recovery services all across our state. And I know there's
a lot more work to do on all these fronts,
and as governor, I can continue working on behalf of
the people of Colorado, taking on big fights and delivering results.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
About a week ago, which was probably after roughly the
first week of your being a candidate, you put out
press release. I'm reading the headline Wiser for Governor campaign
raises one hundred and fifty seven six hundred and fifty
seven dollars in the first day, so maybe that was
right after the first day and announces key endorsements, being
as objective as you can right now, and with the
(16:31):
understanding that I am not that well tied into democratic
politics here, how how is the reaction to your candidacy
so far?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Russ.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I've said a few metaphors on this. When you're in
the bottle charge to eat the label or we're in
either hurricane, it's totally hard to see everything, so I
have limited visibility. But from what I have I have
gotten such wonderful support. You mentioned key endorsers. One of
them is Governor Roy Romer, who I could talk about
(17:01):
all day as a role model, as a mentor, as
a friend, and then Congressman at pro Mutter and that
to me is important because when you have people of
that stature who get behind my candidacy and who provide
the mentorship and support.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
It's meaningful.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
And obviously the financial contributions are assigned. I think we're
already over a thousand people sign up right away to
say we want to contribute to support you. It's a
weird thing in politics when you put yourself out there
and then you don't know what's going to happen. And
for the first week, I can say I am feeling
a lot of great support, So I'm very encouraged.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
We're clearly a blue state.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
There's no Republican elected statewide in this state, and I
doubt there will be very soon. On the other hand,
like many other places, we drifted a little bit to
the right, maybe less than.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Some others, we drifted a little bit to the right
in the last election.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Does anything about the overall political mood of the country
or the state, or maybe a little less disire for
some of that far left stuff that we've seen from
many corners change how you think about how you would govern.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I got into running for office because I wanted to serve,
and I started with the premise that I was going
to be true to myself. I was going to be
intellectually honest about things, and I was going to make
a point of listening to everybody.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
One of the most meaningful signs.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
That that path is working was when Senator Cleeve Simpson,
who is a Republican from the Stanley's Valley, talked about
my candidacy. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here. I believe
Phil generally cares about Colorado. He shows up in the
valley with an amut of votes because he wants to
serve in a composite difference.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
That's the message I want.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
I don't want people to see me as a candidate
of one segment, but I want people to see me
as someone who cares about everybody, who is committed to
listening and dialogue. And as my campaign goes forward, I
believe we'll demonstrate that. If you look at the whole
steering committee we re leased of endorsements. It's not everyone
who's necessarily supporting me, but it's a representative list from
across the whole state. John Stop from Southeast Colorado, who's
(19:08):
taught me a lot about water, or Barbara McLoughlin from
Durango and Bernie Busher from Grand Junction. They're all on
the team, along with ROHYI, Roamer at promoter and others.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Okay, I just have about forty seconds left, but I
think I would like to end by asking you to
elaborate on something that you said you would like to
talk about for a moment, which is youth mental health.
I know this is a thing you have paid close
attention to. We've talked about safety tell on the show,
probably at least twice. I just have a few seconds,
but say whatever you want to say about that issue.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I appreciate that we've got a crisis on our hands. Ross.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
You and I are both parents of people who are
young people, and the level of loneliness, the level of
people hooked into their phones, the impact of social media,
the lack of trusted adults who are in relationship with
young people, all are deep concerns that I have. I'm
working hard on this as Attorney General, where we're going
to give out money that we got by suing Jewel
(20:02):
to make a difference building school community partnerships.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
There is so much more than needs to be done
on this.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I'm also proposing a voluntary youth service Corps for people
that graduate high school or college to give young people
more meeting and purpose. This is part of what I
want to accomplish. It's a great concern to me as
a parent, attorney general and as a public servant.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Phil Wiser is Attorney General of the State of Colorado
and an announced candidate for governor of the State of Colorado.
Thank you for your time and the in depth conversation
today Phil always appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Likewise, Ross, thank you all right,
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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