Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
FBI finds secret JFK assassination records after Trump order. And
just a little bit more here to The FBI just
discovered about twenty four hundred records tied to President Kennedy's
assassination that were never provided to a board tasked with
reviewing and disclosing the documents. The still secret records are
(00:22):
contained in fourteen thousand pages of documents the FBI found
in a review triggered by President Trump's executive order demanding
the release of all JFK assassination records. So I don't
know a lot about this story, which has been the
subject of books and movies and endless conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I just don't know that much about it, and so.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I thought it would make the most sense to get somebody.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
On who knows a lot about it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
In fact, maybe to get somebody on who knows more
than almost anybody else about it. So we've got Jefferson
Morley on the show. Jeff is an author and a
journalist and the proprietor of the substack called JFK Facts.
So actually you can go to JFK Facts, fact x
(01:09):
fact s, jfkfacts dot substack dot com and see probably
some of the stuff we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Jeff, Welcome to Koway. Thanks for making time.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm sure a lot of people have been wanting to
get you on their shows, so I appreciate your being here.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, thanks for having me. Ross.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
My son and daughter in law late have been Denver,
so I especially wanted to come on the show and
say hi to them.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
All right, what are their first names? Go ahead and
say hi.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Hi, Anthony, Hi Mary.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
There you go, that's my grandson. All right.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
All right, Before we get into the details of his
twenty four hundred pages and exactly what you think about that,
I want to start with a macro kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm not a.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Person who has been obsessed with the Kennedy assassination or
even really fascinated by it. But yet as we go on,
as we go on through these years and keep passing
deadlines for presidential orders to release the information, I start
to feel more and more like the government is acting
(02:12):
like they have something to hide, and that interests me
a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Well, I mean, what we see is this extraordinary secrecy
around JFK records, and it can't be disconnected from governmental
misconduct in the assassination story.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
From the beginning.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
You know, after President Kennedy was killed, shot down in
broad daylight in front of a crowd of one hundred people,
and no one was ever brought to justice for the crime,
nor did anyone in the federal government even lose their
job the secrets. The head of the Secret Service kept
his job for the next eight years. So this crime
was never well accounted for. It was the first explanation
(02:52):
of the government by the Warrant Commission that one man
did this alone for no reason. That story has fallen
apart over the years now, so we don't know what happened,
but we do know that that didn't happen. Lee Harvey
Oswell was not the intellectual author of President Kennedy's death.
He might have fired a gun that day, but he
was not. That's not what caused President Kennedy's death. So
we're left with this mystery.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Now.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Everything was supposed to be revealed to the JFK Review Board,
which existed in the nineteen nineties and went to government
agencies and said.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Let's see your records.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
The fact that the FBI had twenty four hundred records
and didn't share them with the review board, that's gross
non compliance with the laws, so that needs to be explained.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
The other part is, so what's in there. Well, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
People say a bunch of things about these JFK records
that are actually not true. One is, oh, anything incriminating
would have been destroyed long ago.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
That's not true. From experience, we.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Know that yes, lots of incriminating information was destroyed, but
lots of incriminating information also survived. So the possibility that
there's incriminating information in the FBI files, I think it's
quite possible. Because the other thing that we've learned about
JFK files in recent years, especially in the last five
to ten years, is that the CIA surveillance of the
(04:08):
man who supposedly killed the president was far far more
intense than anybody knew.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
He was not a low nut in.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
The eyes of the CIA, he was a known quantity
and top CIA officials had a big dossier on him
on their desk in the final days of Kennedy's presidency.
So we do have a strong presidential order. That's a
good thing from President Trump. This is it's high time
that we got all these records out, But we've seen
these agencies delay before, so that could also happen. So
(04:39):
it's a promising start, but we need to We actually
need to see the records.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
One of the things that I wonder about when it
comes to this idea of there may be incriminating information
in there, it is that if there's incriminating information about somebody, whoever,
that somebody is like, the youngest they could possibly be
at this point would be early.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Eighties, and more likely ninety or one hundred are dead.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So even if there is incriminating information, who cares.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Unless it's incriminating the CIA.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
CIA cares.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
The CIA cares because you know, damaging revelations about the
JFK story. Could you know, CIA would have to come
up and explain itself in hearings on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
They might get their budget cut.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yes, people involved are dead long ago, but agency reputations
live on. So yes, there is not true national security
information in these files. It's information that's embarrassing the CIA
and FBI, but the release of it will not endanger
the national security of Americans. That's you know, that's a
bogus argument, And eight years after the congressional deadline, it's
(05:57):
just it doesn't hold any weight anymore. We need to
see all the records now, and if we don't, then
we understand that they don't want to tell the truth
about the Kennedy assassination, which you know, draw your own conclusions.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So you made it clear a moment ago that you
don't believe that that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone wolf.
And I have no opinion about this. I haven't studied
it enough to have an opinion. Clearly you have, and
I'm curious at this point, what do you think are
the top two, maybe three best theories that could explain
(06:37):
the JFK assassination other than Lee Harvey Oswald being a
lone wolf, which you say is almost certainly not true.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
You know, I don't like to talk about theories. I
don't have a JFK theory. I'm not a prosecutor. I'm
not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not trying to, you know,
charge somebody with a criminal conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I'm a writer, reporter.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
I talked to a lot of people, I read a
lot of records, so I'm not looking for a smoking gun.
I'm not retailing conspiracy theory. But the way to the
evidence tells me the official story is not true, and
that the official story of a lone gunman was really
a cover story to hide CI a surveillance and manipulation
of Lee Harvey Oswell.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And what we're going to.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Learn in the months to come is a continuation of
what we've learned in recent years, which is this surveillance
of Oswald by top CIA officials was very intensive and
it intensified as the President prepared to go to Dallas.
So we need an explanation of that, and we need
all the records that are related to that. To me,
(07:42):
those records tell us the president was killed by enemies
in his own government, enemies of his policies in Vietnam,
in Cuba and with the Soviet Union who regarded Kennedy
as a threat, and you know, and and and wanted
to end his policies, and the assassination did and those
policies and resulted in different policies pursued by Lyndon Johnson.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So that's why it's important.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
And you know, we have learned a lot in recent
years about it's not well reported by by mainstream news organizations,
which are still weed to this old story which is
now just factually kind of defunct. It doesn't hang together,
it doesn't have credibility, So we need a better JFK story,
and we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
We're talking with Jefferson Morley. Jeff is an author a
journalist and you should check out his substack at j
f K Facts Facts dot substack dot com. JFK Facts
dot substack dot com. Now, I mentioned to you, Jeff,
just before we went on the air, that I had.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Paul Morrow on recently, And of course you know, Paul.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Is a former NYPD inspector and lieutenant and NYPD intelligence
guy as well, so he's had his brain in his
professional career very much involved with dealing with the Mob,
and he's he's convinced that the Mob had something to
do with this.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And again, I don't know much about this.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
If it were true that the CIA were involved in
the killing of Kennedy, I guess it's potentially true that
they could have worked through the Mob to get it done.
I don't know what do you have to say. Again,
I'm not trying to ask you for conspiracy theories, and
I very much appreciate that you don't do that.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It could there be a tie to the Mob.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
If it is true that the CIA was the prime
mover behind the killing of Kennedy.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
We know that there was an organized crime dimension to
the events of November nineteen sixty three because Lee Harvey Oswald,
the suspected assassin who denied killing Kennedy, was killed in
police custody by Jack Ruby, a Dallas nightclub owner who
associated with organized crime figures. The initial investigation of the
assassination totally ignored Ruby's many connections to organized crime. They
(09:59):
just didn't look at it, okay, But organized crime figures
have come forward and said we were asked to get
rid of Oswald, So that's their part in the Kennedy
assassination story. They got rid of the chief witness. Now,
who were the movers and shakers of what seems to
have been a very sophisticated ambush of the president. That's
(10:23):
very hard to tell because this operation was conceived in secrecy,
and no rational conspirator would put anything down on paper.
So we're looking for traces of hidden activity, and we
see that all over. We see that they're still hiding
all these records, So that's most likely where the story is.
(10:43):
The rest of the story is about how the CIA
monitored and manipulated Lee Harvey Oswell.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
A listener would like to know what you think.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
The probability is that LBJ either helped orchestrate the killing,
or or at least knew about it in advance.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I don't think there's any evidence that he knew about
it in advance. There's lots of evidence that he understood
right away that he could not afford an investigation of
what actually happened. And so within forty eight hours of
Kennedy's murder, Johnson is telling his aides, we have to
convince the public that Oswald acted alone. And this is
written down on a letter in a memo that has
(11:26):
been public for a long time.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So we know that's the answer Johnson demanded right away.
Why would you demand that?
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Because he did not want an investigation of the CIA
and Oswald that would have torn his government apart, and
so that was buried right from the start.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That's an interesting and important distinction, right that.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Johnson knew believed that.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
In essence his own government, the American government, caused Johnson
to be installed as present by murdering the previous president,
and therefore if the public found out, it would make
Johnson's presidency. I don't know if you'd quite call it invalid.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, suspect at least that.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
But the nuance that you're putting in there is that
doesn't mean we should assume that Johnson was involved with
the planning of it.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I mean, because there's no evidence to that effect.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Now upon, Johnson was capable of many things, and the
more I learn about him, the more I understand that.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
But what's important for people to understand.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Whatever you think about Ndon Johnson privately, he did not
believe the loan gunman theory. He did not believe the
Warrant Commission, which he appointed, and he said at least
three times between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen seventy one
that he believed that more people were involved and that
Kennedy was killed by enemies of his policies.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
So that's President Johnson himself, to.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Which when people say, well, Jeff, you knows, what's your
alternative to the loan gun to theory, I say, if
Lyndon Johnson.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Didn't believe the warrant Commission, why should I.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
There's no reason, you know, Lyndon Johnson didn't believe it
because it actually doesn't hang together. So we are going
to make some progress, though, I think that's what is
needs emphasizing in this moment rus is you know we're
gonna have hearings. There's some real momentum, some uh you know, finally,
these agencies may have to, you know, go along and
(13:26):
cough this stuff up. Even when they do, we will
learn significant important information about the causes of the assassination.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Of that, I have little doubt.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay, My last question for you is kind of a
follow up on that. Do you think we will ever
Do you think we will ever get to a place
where Jeff Morley says, I believe with very high confidence
now that I understand the Kennedy assassination, well.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I mean, I think the weight of the evidence right
now is very wrong.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
That the president was killed by his enemies who had
the ability to make the crime look like something else.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Who exactly that was, you know, that's very difficult to discern.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
There's a few men who you could describe as plausible
suspects who had knowledge of Oswald, who had knowledge of
assassination on operations, who had control of secrecy channels, had
control of eavesdropping operations, all of those things. But I
wouldn't say it beyond that, And I don't offer a
theory about which.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
One of them is most plausible. But that's what I believe.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
And I think what we will alle, what we will
learn in weeks and months shadow and follow Oswald and
blame him for the assassination that was actually perpetrated by
other people.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I think that's what you know, we will learn. Will
I be satisfied? Will people be satisfied?
Speaker 4 (14:50):
You know, people are going to think what they think,
And I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. I'm just
telling you what the what the known facts are, and
I think the more known facts that.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Come out of the CIA surveillance of.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Oswald, the more we'll understand that the president's death was caused.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
By his enemies.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Jefferson Morley is an author a journalist. His really interesting
substack is JFK Facts, So you can go to jfkfacts
dot substack dot com to read more of Jess's work
about this. Obviously, there's a lot more news on this
story since the presidential election, since this most recent presidential election,
(15:28):
and with Trump's executive order and now with this revelation
about the previously undisclosed documents, so that there's a lot
to write about and hopefully we'll be learning more Jeff,
thank you so much for your time. We'll definitely have
you back when we do learn more.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Ross, thanks for having me and I look forward to.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Doing that, all right, glad to do it.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
And Hi again to jess kids and grandkids here in
the Denver area.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
All right, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you.
FBI finds secret JFK assassination records after Trump order. And
just a little bit more here to The FBI just
discovered about twenty four hundred records tied to President Kennedy's
assassination that were never provided to a board tasked with
reviewing and disclosing the documents. The still secret records are
(00:22):
contained in fourteen thousand pages of documents the FBI found
in a review triggered by President Trump's executive order demanding
the release of all JFK assassination records. So I don't
know a lot about this story, which has been the
subject of books and movies and endless conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I just don't know that much about it, and so.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I thought it would make the most sense to get somebody.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
On who knows a lot about it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
In fact, maybe to get somebody on who knows more
than almost anybody else about it. So we've got Jefferson
Morley on the show. Jeff is an author and a
journalist and the proprietor of the substack called JFK Facts.
So actually you can go to JFK Facts, fact x
(01:09):
fact s, jfkfacts dot substack dot com and see probably
some of the stuff we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Jeff, Welcome to Koway. Thanks for making time.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm sure a lot of people have been wanting to
get you on their shows, so I appreciate your being here.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, thanks for having me. Ross.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
My son and daughter in law late have been Denver,
so I especially wanted to come on the show and
say hi to them.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
All right, what are their first names? Go ahead and
say hi.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Hi, Anthony, Hi Mary.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
There you go, that's my grandson. All right.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
All right, Before we get into the details of his
twenty four hundred pages and exactly what you think about that,
I want to start with a macro kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm not a.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Person who has been obsessed with the Kennedy assassination or
even really fascinated by it. But yet as we go on,
as we go on through these years and keep passing
deadlines for presidential orders to release the information, I start
to feel more and more like the government is acting
(02:12):
like they have something to hide, and that interests me
a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Well, I mean, what we see is this extraordinary secrecy
around JFK records, and it can't be disconnected from governmental
misconduct in the assassination story.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
From the beginning.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
You know, after President Kennedy was killed, shot down in
broad daylight in front of a crowd of one hundred people,
and no one was ever brought to justice for the crime,
nor did anyone in the federal government even lose their
job the secrets. The head of the Secret Service kept
his job for the next eight years. So this crime
was never well accounted for. It was the first explanation
(02:52):
of the government by the Warrant Commission that one man
did this alone for no reason. That story has fallen
apart over the years now, so we don't know what happened,
but we do know that that didn't happen. Lee Harvey
Oswell was not the intellectual author of President Kennedy's death.
He might have fired a gun that day, but he
was not. That's not what caused President Kennedy's death. So
we're left with this mystery.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Now.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Everything was supposed to be revealed to the JFK Review Board,
which existed in the nineteen nineties and went to government
agencies and said.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Let's see your records.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
The fact that the FBI had twenty four hundred records
and didn't share them with the review board, that's gross
non compliance with the laws, so that needs to be explained.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
The other part is, so what's in there. Well, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
People say a bunch of things about these JFK records
that are actually not true. One is, oh, anything incriminating
would have been destroyed long ago.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
That's not true. From experience, we.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Know that yes, lots of incriminating information was destroyed, but
lots of incriminating information also survived. So the possibility that
there's incriminating information in the FBI files, I think it's
quite possible. Because the other thing that we've learned about
JFK files in recent years, especially in the last five
to ten years, is that the CIA surveillance of the
(04:08):
man who supposedly killed the president was far far more
intense than anybody knew.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
He was not a low nut in.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
The eyes of the CIA, he was a known quantity
and top CIA officials had a big dossier on him
on their desk in the final days of Kennedy's presidency.
So we do have a strong presidential order. That's a
good thing from President Trump. This is it's high time
that we got all these records out, But we've seen
these agencies delay before, so that could also happen. So
(04:39):
it's a promising start, but we need to We actually
need to see the records.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
One of the things that I wonder about when it
comes to this idea of there may be incriminating information
in there, it is that if there's incriminating information about somebody, whoever,
that somebody is like, the youngest they could possibly be
at this point would be early.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Eighties, and more likely ninety or one hundred are dead.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So even if there is incriminating information, who cares.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Unless it's incriminating the CIA.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
CIA cares.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
The CIA cares because you know, damaging revelations about the
JFK story. Could you know, CIA would have to come
up and explain itself in hearings on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
They might get their budget cut.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yes, people involved are dead long ago, but agency reputations
live on. So yes, there is not true national security
information in these files. It's information that's embarrassing the CIA
and FBI, but the release of it will not endanger
the national security of Americans. That's you know, that's a
bogus argument, And eight years after the congressional deadline, it's
(05:57):
just it doesn't hold any weight anymore. We need to
see all the records now, and if we don't, then
we understand that they don't want to tell the truth
about the Kennedy assassination, which you know, draw your own conclusions.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So you made it clear a moment ago that you
don't believe that that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone wolf.
And I have no opinion about this. I haven't studied
it enough to have an opinion. Clearly you have, and
I'm curious at this point, what do you think are
the top two, maybe three best theories that could explain
(06:37):
the JFK assassination other than Lee Harvey Oswald being a
lone wolf, which you say is almost certainly not true.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
You know, I don't like to talk about theories. I
don't have a JFK theory. I'm not a prosecutor. I'm
not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not trying to, you know,
charge somebody with a criminal conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I'm a writer, reporter.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
I talked to a lot of people, I read a
lot of records, so I'm not looking for a smoking gun.
I'm not retailing conspiracy theory. But the way to the
evidence tells me the official story is not true, and
that the official story of a lone gunman was really
a cover story to hide CI a surveillance and manipulation
of Lee Harvey Oswell.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And what we're going to.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Learn in the months to come is a continuation of
what we've learned in recent years, which is this surveillance
of Oswald by top CIA officials was very intensive and
it intensified as the President prepared to go to Dallas.
So we need an explanation of that, and we need
all the records that are related to that. To me,
(07:42):
those records tell us the president was killed by enemies
in his own government, enemies of his policies in Vietnam,
in Cuba and with the Soviet Union who regarded Kennedy
as a threat, and you know, and and and wanted
to end his policies, and the assassination did and those
policies and resulted in different policies pursued by Lyndon Johnson.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So that's why it's important.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
And you know, we have learned a lot in recent
years about it's not well reported by by mainstream news organizations,
which are still weed to this old story which is
now just factually kind of defunct. It doesn't hang together,
it doesn't have credibility, So we need a better JFK story,
and we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
We're talking with Jefferson Morley. Jeff is an author a
journalist and you should check out his substack at j
f K Facts Facts dot substack dot com. JFK Facts
dot substack dot com. Now, I mentioned to you, Jeff,
just before we went on the air, that I had.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Paul Morrow on recently, And of course you know, Paul.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Is a former NYPD inspector and lieutenant and NYPD intelligence
guy as well, so he's had his brain in his
professional career very much involved with dealing with the Mob,
and he's he's convinced that the Mob had something to
do with this.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And again, I don't know much about this.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
If it were true that the CIA were involved in
the killing of Kennedy, I guess it's potentially true that
they could have worked through the Mob to get it done.
I don't know what do you have to say. Again,
I'm not trying to ask you for conspiracy theories, and
I very much appreciate that you don't do that.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It could there be a tie to the Mob.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
If it is true that the CIA was the prime
mover behind the killing of Kennedy.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
We know that there was an organized crime dimension to
the events of November nineteen sixty three because Lee Harvey Oswald,
the suspected assassin who denied killing Kennedy, was killed in
police custody by Jack Ruby, a Dallas nightclub owner who
associated with organized crime figures. The initial investigation of the
assassination totally ignored Ruby's many connections to organized crime. They
(09:59):
just didn't look at it, okay, But organized crime figures
have come forward and said we were asked to get
rid of Oswald, So that's their part in the Kennedy
assassination story. They got rid of the chief witness. Now,
who were the movers and shakers of what seems to
have been a very sophisticated ambush of the president. That's
(10:23):
very hard to tell because this operation was conceived in secrecy,
and no rational conspirator would put anything down on paper.
So we're looking for traces of hidden activity, and we
see that all over. We see that they're still hiding
all these records, So that's most likely where the story is.
(10:43):
The rest of the story is about how the CIA
monitored and manipulated Lee Harvey Oswell.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
A listener would like to know what you think.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
The probability is that LBJ either helped orchestrate the killing,
or or at least knew about it in advance.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I don't think there's any evidence that he knew about
it in advance. There's lots of evidence that he understood
right away that he could not afford an investigation of
what actually happened. And so within forty eight hours of
Kennedy's murder, Johnson is telling his aides, we have to
convince the public that Oswald acted alone. And this is
written down on a letter in a memo that has
(11:26):
been public for a long time.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So we know that's the answer Johnson demanded right away.
Why would you demand that?
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Because he did not want an investigation of the CIA
and Oswald that would have torn his government apart, and
so that was buried right from the start.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That's an interesting and important distinction, right that.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Johnson knew believed that.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
In essence his own government, the American government, caused Johnson
to be installed as present by murdering the previous president,
and therefore if the public found out, it would make
Johnson's presidency. I don't know if you'd quite call it invalid.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, suspect at least that.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
But the nuance that you're putting in there is that
doesn't mean we should assume that Johnson was involved with
the planning of it.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I mean, because there's no evidence to that effect.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Now upon, Johnson was capable of many things, and the
more I learn about him, the more I understand that.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
But what's important for people to understand.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Whatever you think about Ndon Johnson privately, he did not
believe the loan gunman theory. He did not believe the
Warrant Commission, which he appointed, and he said at least
three times between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen seventy one
that he believed that more people were involved and that
Kennedy was killed by enemies of his policies.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
So that's President Johnson himself, to.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Which when people say, well, Jeff, you knows, what's your
alternative to the loan gun to theory, I say, if
Lyndon Johnson.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Didn't believe the warrant Commission, why should I.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
There's no reason, you know, Lyndon Johnson didn't believe it
because it actually doesn't hang together. So we are going
to make some progress, though, I think that's what is
needs emphasizing in this moment rus is you know we're
gonna have hearings. There's some real momentum, some uh you know, finally,
these agencies may have to, you know, go along and
(13:26):
cough this stuff up. Even when they do, we will
learn significant important information about the causes of the assassination.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Of that, I have little doubt.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay, My last question for you is kind of a
follow up on that. Do you think we will ever
Do you think we will ever get to a place
where Jeff Morley says, I believe with very high confidence
now that I understand the Kennedy assassination, well.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I mean, I think the weight of the evidence right
now is very wrong.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
That the president was killed by his enemies who had
the ability to make the crime look like something else.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Who exactly that was, you know, that's very difficult to discern.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
There's a few men who you could describe as plausible
suspects who had knowledge of Oswald, who had knowledge of
assassination on operations, who had control of secrecy channels, had
control of eavesdropping operations, all of those things. But I
wouldn't say it beyond that, And I don't offer a
theory about which.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
One of them is most plausible. But that's what I believe.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
And I think what we will alle, what we will
learn in weeks and months shadow and follow Oswald and
blame him for the assassination that was actually perpetrated by
other people.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I think that's what you know, we will learn. Will
I be satisfied? Will people be satisfied?
Speaker 4 (14:50):
You know, people are going to think what they think,
And I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. I'm just
telling you what the what the known facts are, and
I think the more known facts that.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Come out of the CIA surveillance of.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Oswald, the more we'll understand that the president's death was caused.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
By his enemies.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Jefferson Morley is an author a journalist. His really interesting
substack is JFK Facts, So you can go to jfkfacts
dot substack dot com to read more of Jess's work
about this. Obviously, there's a lot more news on this
story since the presidential election, since this most recent presidential election,
(15:28):
and with Trump's executive order and now with this revelation
about the previously undisclosed documents, so that there's a lot
to write about and hopefully we'll be learning more Jeff,
thank you so much for your time. We'll definitely have
you back when we do learn more.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Ross, thanks for having me and I look forward to.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Doing that, all right, glad to do it.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
And Hi again to jess kids and grandkids here in
the Denver area.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
All right, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you.
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