November 13, 2025 • 7 mins
Dr. Jared Pincin of Cedarville U. explains why sports betting has gotten so out of control to the point where it has been diagnosed as a substance abuse problem
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I do want to continue to talk about sports, but
(00:01):
from a different angle. I want to talk about sports
gambling and how it's not only it's changing the game,
it's also changing how people view sports. All Right, So
you had these sports scandals right the Major League Baseball
with the Cleveland Guardians and Immanuel class A, Luis Ortiz.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
They've been indicted.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
By federal prosecutors for rigging, you know, the pitches, manipulating
specific in game pitches. The NBA story from a couple
of weeks ago a little different there because you had
a poker rigged poker game. But the other one with
Terry Rozier even he basically took himself out of his
get out of the game and people were betting on him.
So let's get some perspective from doctor Jared Pinson on
(00:42):
the Legacy Retirement Group dot com phone line. Doctor Pinson
with Cedarville University Associate professor of economics, Jared, this is interesting.
It's not like back in the day when you would
shake your buddy's hand and say, I bet you five bucks,
my team's gonna beat your team, and then you watch
the game and then somebody he forks over a fiver.
This is this is way different now with these with
(01:03):
these prop bets and being able to make bets on
your phone.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, and thanks for having me on. Good morning to everybody.
It is absolutely very different because of how ubiquitous it
is and how easy it is used to hit. In
the past, you had to go to Vegas to make
a legal sports bet, or you knew your local boo
key which was illegal but people were doing it, or
just amongst friends. Now you pull out your phone. And
by the way, ninety five percent of all sports wagering,
(01:29):
it's one hundred and fifty billion dollar business. Ninety five
percent is done on your mobile device, and so people
take out the phone. It looks like a game sort
of click click, and betting goes and you can bet
on so many different things. Today people think it's just
about a game like winner and loser. No, No, it's
about whether someone's going to hit a three pointer in
the second quarter. You can make hundreds of bets during
(01:52):
one individual game, and.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's I think that's really what has started to cause
some problems here. It's not just your betting on the
game out winner, loser, even the points spreader, the over under,
those are all bets that have been around for a
long time. But now when you're giving individual players the
power to may not affect the outcome of the game,
but it certainly affects the outcome of your bet. If,
(02:16):
like in the situation with the Guardians, you know, a
single pitch probably not going to decide the game, but
people you know, win or lose, you know, tens of
thousands of dollars. That to me is really what's at
the issue here is the in game betting and the
individual prop bets.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, and then combining that with with parlays. So if
people aren't familiar, parlay is just a series of bets
that you have to win all of them, might be
three or five or seven to get it. And those
include parlays, sorry, those include prop bets, game winners, and
all of this actually puts players in danger. So imagine
you have a running back who's you know, game is late.
(02:53):
He's running towards the end zone. He slides down because
he wants to, you know, keep time on the clock.
Someone's going to get angry at him because he didn't
score a touchdown they lost their prop bet. Someone's going
to get angry at him because you know he should
have stayed down or whatever. Your players cannot win with
the way that this betting is structured, and that's dangerous
(03:14):
for them because they're getting threats. And social media just
adds accelerant to all this.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Sure, and then that's what you know, if I can
take the other side for a minute, and I know
a lot of people who who bet on games and
are very into this, that's what makes it exciting. I mean,
it's that's it makes it. It makes it otherwise boring
game or a game that you don't have any skin in,
meaning you're not a fan of either team, it makes
(03:39):
that game way more interesting to watch if you've got
some money.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
In on it.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah. Well that's also what makes sports betting different from
other types of betting. So if you're if you're going
to the casino and you're playing poker, it's probably because
you like poker, not necessarily because you like gambling. There
might be an overlap. But with sports betting, it's it's
combining something that people really like. People love sports. I
love sports. It's great to watch, it's great to participate in,
(04:05):
and they're adding something else to it. So when you
look at the literature on sort of gambling addictions. Sports
betting is treated differently because it is different from other
types of gambling, and again that's what makes it dangerous
to the individual.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Speaking with doctor Jared Pinson from Cedarville University on sports
gambling sort of changing the game.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You mentioned the addiction, the addictive nature to it.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You know, I know guys that they'll place these It's
not about the money necessarily, they'll pacet you know, five
ten dollars bets they can afford to lose them, and
then a five dollars bet to win, you know, fifteen
or twenty dollars. It's not about the money, it's about
the dopamine hit of actually winning the bet, and that's
what leads to the addiction.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah. Absolutely, And that's why the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
of Mental Health changed the way that they look at
gambling addiction in general. They used to consider it what
we'd call it impulse control disorders, so you just couldn't
kind of control yourself, think of like a pyromaniac, you know,
obviously quite rare. They changed this to gambling addiction, to
(05:12):
their first recognized behavioral addiction. They actually consider it the
same as a substance abuse problem. So the way we
think of alcoholism is the way that mental health professionals
think of sports gambling. Now there's a scale as to
where you are. There's a series of questions that they
would work through as to sort of what your addiction
level is. But that's how they treat it. They treat
(05:34):
it like a substance abuse problem.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And they should, I mean, because it's there are some
people that can get way in over their head and
yet it is not going to go away, Jared, because
of the money involved. And I saw a stat I
mean the Ohio Casino Control Commission more than a billion
a billion with a B and tax revenue since the
legalization of sports betting in the state of Ohio.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So there's a lot of money here.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
So then again you start to talk about ethics, you know,
state governments profiting from people's addictions.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, and I have the Ohio numbers in front of me.
At least up through August just this year, the state
of Ohio has made one hundred and nineteen million dollars
on about six billion dollars of bets, not just through August.
Of course, it does include the NFL season, So it's
going to be a larger number. So, yeah, you've got
state governments profiting, You've got obviously sports books profiting, you
have leagues profiting. Who's not profiting? Is the average better?
(06:26):
The average better loses most of the time. In fact,
about ninety five percent of your average betters are going
to lose. And so everybody is winning except the person
laying the bet. And that's the problem with this whole system.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, and then you get these all these promotions for
free bets and easy, easy wins, and then it gives you, oh,
I got this, you know, I double my bet for
the same amount of money, and that kind of keeps
people coming back to the apps on their phones. I
don't know what the solution is, doctor Pinson. I think
the toothpaste is out of the tube. I mean, the
state's aren't going to change. There's too much money involved.
And if you ask a run in the mill, you know,
(07:04):
every day gambler, who's you know, spending maybe you know,
fifty hundred and fifty bucks a weekend on a couple
of different bets.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
It's too much fun for them. I don't know where
you go from here.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I think there's some things that you can do that
you don't have actually ban it, but you could limit advertising,
I mean every thirteen seconds when you're watching a sports
game roughly as an advertisement. True, we do this for
we do this for alcohol. There's limits on alcohol advertising.
There limits on nicotine and smoking. You can also limit
(07:35):
these free compliment bets that you get, so again, it
just changes the dynamic rather than actually banning it outright,
because I don't think you'd be able to do that
with where we are, but we can work at the
margins to help, specifically those who are vulnerable and falling
into this repetitive cycle.
I do want to continue to talk about sports, but
(00:01):
from a different angle. I want to talk about sports
gambling and how it's not only it's changing the game,
it's also changing how people view sports. All Right, So
you had these sports scandals right the Major League Baseball
with the Cleveland Guardians and Immanuel class A, Luis Ortiz.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
They've been indicted.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
By federal prosecutors for rigging, you know, the pitches, manipulating
specific in game pitches. The NBA story from a couple
of weeks ago a little different there because you had
a poker rigged poker game. But the other one with
Terry Rozier even he basically took himself out of his
get out of the game and people were betting on him.
So let's get some perspective from doctor Jared Pinson on
(00:42):
the Legacy Retirement Group dot com phone line. Doctor Pinson
with Cedarville University Associate professor of economics, Jared, this is interesting.
It's not like back in the day when you would
shake your buddy's hand and say, I bet you five bucks,
my team's gonna beat your team, and then you watch
the game and then somebody he forks over a fiver.
This is this is way different now with these with
(01:03):
these prop bets and being able to make bets on
your phone.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, and thanks for having me on. Good morning to everybody.
It is absolutely very different because of how ubiquitous it
is and how easy it is used to hit. In
the past, you had to go to Vegas to make
a legal sports bet, or you knew your local boo
key which was illegal but people were doing it, or
just amongst friends. Now you pull out your phone. And
by the way, ninety five percent of all sports wagering,
(01:29):
it's one hundred and fifty billion dollar business. Ninety five
percent is done on your mobile device, and so people
take out the phone. It looks like a game sort
of click click, and betting goes and you can bet
on so many different things. Today people think it's just
about a game like winner and loser. No, No, it's
about whether someone's going to hit a three pointer in
the second quarter. You can make hundreds of bets during
(01:52):
one individual game, and.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's I think that's really what has started to cause
some problems here. It's not just your betting on the
game out winner, loser, even the points spreader, the over under,
those are all bets that have been around for a
long time. But now when you're giving individual players the
power to may not affect the outcome of the game,
but it certainly affects the outcome of your bet. If,
(02:16):
like in the situation with the Guardians, you know, a
single pitch probably not going to decide the game, but
people you know, win or lose, you know, tens of
thousands of dollars. That to me is really what's at
the issue here is the in game betting and the
individual prop bets.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, and then combining that with with parlays. So if
people aren't familiar, parlay is just a series of bets
that you have to win all of them, might be
three or five or seven to get it. And those
include parlays, sorry, those include prop bets, game winners, and
all of this actually puts players in danger. So imagine
you have a running back who's you know, game is late.
(02:53):
He's running towards the end zone. He slides down because
he wants to, you know, keep time on the clock.
Someone's going to get angry at him because he didn't
score a touchdown they lost their prop bet. Someone's going
to get angry at him because you know he should
have stayed down or whatever. Your players cannot win with
the way that this betting is structured, and that's dangerous
(03:14):
for them because they're getting threats. And social media just
adds accelerant to all this.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Sure, and then that's what you know, if I can
take the other side for a minute, and I know
a lot of people who who bet on games and
are very into this, that's what makes it exciting. I mean,
it's that's it makes it. It makes it otherwise boring
game or a game that you don't have any skin in,
meaning you're not a fan of either team, it makes
(03:39):
that game way more interesting to watch if you've got
some money.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
In on it.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah. Well that's also what makes sports betting different from
other types of betting. So if you're if you're going
to the casino and you're playing poker, it's probably because
you like poker, not necessarily because you like gambling. There
might be an overlap. But with sports betting, it's it's
combining something that people really like. People love sports. I
love sports. It's great to watch, it's great to participate in,
(04:05):
and they're adding something else to it. So when you
look at the literature on sort of gambling addictions. Sports
betting is treated differently because it is different from other
types of gambling, and again that's what makes it dangerous
to the individual.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Speaking with doctor Jared Pinson from Cedarville University on sports
gambling sort of changing the game.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You mentioned the addiction, the addictive nature to it.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You know, I know guys that they'll place these It's
not about the money necessarily, they'll pacet you know, five
ten dollars bets they can afford to lose them, and
then a five dollars bet to win, you know, fifteen
or twenty dollars. It's not about the money, it's about
the dopamine hit of actually winning the bet, and that's
what leads to the addiction.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah. Absolutely, And that's why the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
of Mental Health changed the way that they look at
gambling addiction in general. They used to consider it what
we'd call it impulse control disorders, so you just couldn't
kind of control yourself, think of like a pyromaniac, you know,
obviously quite rare. They changed this to gambling addiction, to
(05:12):
their first recognized behavioral addiction. They actually consider it the
same as a substance abuse problem. So the way we
think of alcoholism is the way that mental health professionals
think of sports gambling. Now there's a scale as to
where you are. There's a series of questions that they
would work through as to sort of what your addiction
level is. But that's how they treat it. They treat
(05:34):
it like a substance abuse problem.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And they should, I mean, because it's there are some
people that can get way in over their head and
yet it is not going to go away, Jared, because
of the money involved. And I saw a stat I
mean the Ohio Casino Control Commission more than a billion
a billion with a B and tax revenue since the
legalization of sports betting in the state of Ohio.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So there's a lot of money here.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
So then again you start to talk about ethics, you know,
state governments profiting from people's addictions.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, and I have the Ohio numbers in front of me.
At least up through August just this year, the state
of Ohio has made one hundred and nineteen million dollars
on about six billion dollars of bets, not just through August.
Of course, it does include the NFL season, So it's
going to be a larger number. So, yeah, you've got
state governments profiting, You've got obviously sports books profiting, you
have leagues profiting. Who's not profiting? Is the average better?
(06:26):
The average better loses most of the time. In fact,
about ninety five percent of your average betters are going
to lose. And so everybody is winning except the person
laying the bet. And that's the problem with this whole system.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, and then you get these all these promotions for
free bets and easy, easy wins, and then it gives you, oh,
I got this, you know, I double my bet for
the same amount of money, and that kind of keeps
people coming back to the apps on their phones. I
don't know what the solution is, doctor Pinson. I think
the toothpaste is out of the tube. I mean, the
state's aren't going to change. There's too much money involved.
And if you ask a run in the mill, you know,
(07:04):
every day gambler, who's you know, spending maybe you know,
fifty hundred and fifty bucks a weekend on a couple
of different bets.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
It's too much fun for them. I don't know where
you go from here.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I think there's some things that you can do that
you don't have actually ban it, but you could limit advertising,
I mean every thirteen seconds when you're watching a sports
game roughly as an advertisement. True, we do this for
we do this for alcohol. There's limits on alcohol advertising.
There limits on nicotine and smoking. You can also limit
(07:35):
these free compliment bets that you get, so again, it
just changes the dynamic rather than actually banning it outright,
because I don't think you'd be able to do that
with where we are, but we can work at the
margins to help, specifically those who are vulnerable and falling
into this repetitive cycle.
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