May 9, 2025 • 9 mins
Dr. Glen Duerr of Cedarville U. explains why it took so long to elect someone from the western hemisphere, and more on Pope Leo's background.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I want to jump over to the Legacy Retirement Group
(00:02):
dot com phone line. For the first time in the
two thousand year history of the Catholic Church, we have
our first American Pope, Pope Leo the fourteenth, and here
to kind of break it down and get some answers
and get some clarity and perspective. Doctor Glenn du Or,
Professor of International Studies at Cedarville University. Doctor, good morning.
(00:23):
How are you, by the.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Way, I'm doing fine. How about yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Appreciate the time. So were you a little surprised yesterday
when we see the white smoke come out of the
Sistine Chapel chimney around I don't know, twelve thirty, twelve
forty five Eastern time, and then shortly after one o'clock,
Pope Leo walks out born Robert Prevost from Chicago, Illinois,
the first American pope. For all the time that we
(00:47):
talked about this here in the last couple of days
about who we expect the next pope to be, his
name was very, very far down on the list.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Absolutely, I think it is a big surprise for many.
And even though a number of outlets had speculated about
the possibility of an American pope. Most of them, in
their conclusion simply said, well, we don't think it's very likely.
Here a number of other candidates, And to put it
into wider context, this is a two thousand year old
(01:16):
institution roughly, and this is the two hundred and sixty
seventh pope. Two hundred and seventeen of them are from Italy,
and this is only the second pope born in the
Western Hemisphere. The previous one France, is born in Argentina,
and so in historical context this is very different the
(01:38):
power basis historically Europe, but also a significant day for
the United States.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So why is that? Why do you think that? Well,
I guess it's a two part question. Why haven't we
had an American pope up until now? And what changed?
Why now is it time for a pope born in
the United States.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Cardinals are the ones that elect the pope, and historically
the vast majority have been from Europe, but Francis in
some ways expanded that pool. And even though there are limitations,
age limitations and connection limitations, the cardinals one hundred and
thirty three of them were eligible to vote, and many
(02:24):
had now come from different parts of the world, and
so I think that's one of the reasons why there's
someone different. I also think that part of this comes
down to a left right schism within the Catholic Church. Benedict,
the predecessor to Francis, was certainly on the more conservative end.
It then swung to the more liberal ends with Francis.
(02:47):
I used both those terms in the context of the
Catholic Church. But I think with Leo the fourteenth, this
is someone that was almost right down the middle politically,
and I think that's one of the reasons why he merged.
And maybe it's less so about being American and more
so about being someone that's moderate and maybe can unify
(03:08):
the church. Maybe that was the thinking of the cardinals.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
But the vote requires two thirds of.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
The electing cardinals, and each one's an individual that makes
different selections, and I think that the compromise candidate is
the one that's merged here.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Do you think what does the short conclave tell you
about the cardinals decision making process? It was a fairly
quick conclave. I believe there have only been a handful
five or fewer in modern history that have gone this quickly.
Does that tell you that they were pretty unified on
day one, and maybe just it was just a couple
of votes away from choosing Pope Leo. It was not
(03:46):
a long drawn out process this time around.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
No, the historical context to this is in twelve sixty eight.
They're going back to the thirteenth century.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
It took three years to elect Pope Gregory.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The tenth and then Gregory the tenth is implemented a
system where food was delivered to the Sistine Chapel, but
then the rations were limited, and so the push has
been to elect a pope much much quicker and to
bring it to the modern era. In the twentieth century,
(04:20):
the longest conclave lasted for five days, and since that
time we've seen it really shrink pretty quickly. To answer
your second question, I think that probably the major candidates
for the liberal wing and the conservative wing had their
opportunity on the first day at the conclave, but it
probably looked to most cardinals as if it was deadlocked,
(04:42):
and I think that's where Prevost emerged really as the
compromised candidate, and so I think the left the right,
there were probably other candidates in there, but once the
deadlock was reached, that's where we saw it swelling to
a compromise candidate.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And fairly quick speaking with doctor Glenn do Or, professor
of International Studies at Cedarville University, with some great information
this morning. So we know the decision to choose Leo
the fourteenth, and typically cardinals choose these names based on
previous popes and the way that they ruled the Catholic Church.
So what do we know about his choice to go
(05:19):
with Leo the fourteenth? How will that indicate how he
will lead the Catholic Church for the next several years.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Absolutely, it's a fascinating question. And we've seen a lot
of analysis already on Leo the thirteenth because he was
the pope at the tail end of the nineteenth century during.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
The Gilded Age, and he.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Spoke out a lot on social justice issues, working conditions
and things of that nature. But my sense is that
we'll have to wait to see what Leo the fourteenth
says about himself and the reason for the pick, because
the range.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Of other Leos as well.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Leo the First, for example, in the fifth century, faced
down at Till of the Hunt and basically diplomatically persuaded
him not to attack Rome, and so I see levels
of left and right in the selection of Leo. Leo
the tenth is also the one that infamously excommunicated Martin
(06:17):
Luther in fifteen twenty one, and so there's that element
to it as well. And in the Catholic Tours, sainthood
is an important facet. Leo the first, second, third, fourth,
and ninth we're all granted sainthood, and I think it's
a nod to some of that as well. So there's
a deep history of Leo's but I do think it's
(06:38):
for Leo the fourteenth to explain why he selected the
name and which one is particularly important. But my sense
is that it's probably a cross between Leo the First
and Leo the thirteenth.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Fascinating you mentioned his age. He's relatively young for a
pope at the age. He'll turn seventy in September of
this year, so he could rule the church for another
couple of decades into his late eighties, possibly even getting
into his nineties. I don't know what his health situation
is like, unlike Pope Francis, who did have some health issues,
(07:11):
but I mean, he did make it to eighty eight,
so there was some concern that some of the cardinals
would not want a younger pope, so they could turn
the pope over in ten twelve years. But Pope Leo
could live well on into his nineties.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Absolutely, it's an important consideration because if we go back
to nineteen seventy eight, Pope John Paul the First lasted
for about a month, he was known as the September
Pope and then died very quickly.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
That's where we have the election of.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Pope John Paul the Second, who then reigned or governance
of twenty seven years, which is one of the longest
papacies in.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
The history of the two thousand year old church.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And so in the.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Selection of prevost as Leo the teens for absolutely right
in the question.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
He could lead the Catholic Church for a couple of decades.
He probably will not get to the extent of John
Paul the Second, but at the same time, this could
be a considerable papacy in terms of its length, and
we'll see about its impact.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Glenn I. One of the big questions, and a lot
of people were asking, is is Leo a White Sox
fan or a Cubs fan, because he is from Chicago.
And he did come out and say that he is
from the South Side of Chicago, so he is a
White Sox fan. Do you think that bodes well for
the White Sox in the World Series here in the
next couple of years.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
We'll have to.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Wait and see on that one. But there's been considerable
discussion about this because initially it came out that he's
a Cubs fan, but then that was retracted and said, no,
he's from the South Side and he is a White
Sox fan. But reportedly his family is very, very split
between the Cubs and the White Sox.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So we'll see
Speaker 2 (08:56):
How it plays out, but maybe the Reds will come
through instead for us.
I want to jump over to the Legacy Retirement Group
(00:02):
dot com phone line. For the first time in the
two thousand year history of the Catholic Church, we have
our first American Pope, Pope Leo the fourteenth, and here
to kind of break it down and get some answers
and get some clarity and perspective. Doctor Glenn du Or,
Professor of International Studies at Cedarville University. Doctor, good morning.
(00:23):
How are you, by the.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Way, I'm doing fine. How about yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Appreciate the time. So were you a little surprised yesterday
when we see the white smoke come out of the
Sistine Chapel chimney around I don't know, twelve thirty, twelve
forty five Eastern time, and then shortly after one o'clock,
Pope Leo walks out born Robert Prevost from Chicago, Illinois,
the first American pope. For all the time that we
(00:47):
talked about this here in the last couple of days
about who we expect the next pope to be, his
name was very, very far down on the list.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Absolutely, I think it is a big surprise for many.
And even though a number of outlets had speculated about
the possibility of an American pope. Most of them, in
their conclusion simply said, well, we don't think it's very likely.
Here a number of other candidates, And to put it
into wider context, this is a two thousand year old
(01:16):
institution roughly, and this is the two hundred and sixty
seventh pope. Two hundred and seventeen of them are from Italy,
and this is only the second pope born in the
Western Hemisphere. The previous one France, is born in Argentina,
and so in historical context this is very different the
(01:38):
power basis historically Europe, but also a significant day for
the United States.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So why is that? Why do you think that? Well,
I guess it's a two part question. Why haven't we
had an American pope up until now? And what changed?
Why now is it time for a pope born in
the United States.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Cardinals are the ones that elect the pope, and historically
the vast majority have been from Europe, but Francis in
some ways expanded that pool. And even though there are limitations,
age limitations and connection limitations, the cardinals one hundred and
thirty three of them were eligible to vote, and many
(02:24):
had now come from different parts of the world, and
so I think that's one of the reasons why there's
someone different. I also think that part of this comes
down to a left right schism within the Catholic Church. Benedict,
the predecessor to Francis, was certainly on the more conservative end.
It then swung to the more liberal ends with Francis.
(02:47):
I used both those terms in the context of the
Catholic Church. But I think with Leo the fourteenth, this
is someone that was almost right down the middle politically,
and I think that's one of the reasons why he merged.
And maybe it's less so about being American and more
so about being someone that's moderate and maybe can unify
(03:08):
the church. Maybe that was the thinking of the cardinals.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
But the vote requires two thirds of.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
The electing cardinals, and each one's an individual that makes
different selections, and I think that the compromise candidate is
the one that's merged here.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Do you think what does the short conclave tell you
about the cardinals decision making process? It was a fairly
quick conclave. I believe there have only been a handful
five or fewer in modern history that have gone this quickly.
Does that tell you that they were pretty unified on
day one, and maybe just it was just a couple
of votes away from choosing Pope Leo. It was not
(03:46):
a long drawn out process this time around.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
No, the historical context to this is in twelve sixty eight.
They're going back to the thirteenth century.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
It took three years to elect Pope Gregory.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The tenth and then Gregory the tenth is implemented a
system where food was delivered to the Sistine Chapel, but
then the rations were limited, and so the push has
been to elect a pope much much quicker and to
bring it to the modern era. In the twentieth century,
(04:20):
the longest conclave lasted for five days, and since that
time we've seen it really shrink pretty quickly. To answer
your second question, I think that probably the major candidates
for the liberal wing and the conservative wing had their
opportunity on the first day at the conclave, but it
probably looked to most cardinals as if it was deadlocked,
(04:42):
and I think that's where Prevost emerged really as the
compromised candidate, and so I think the left the right,
there were probably other candidates in there, but once the
deadlock was reached, that's where we saw it swelling to
a compromise candidate.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And fairly quick speaking with doctor Glenn do Or, professor
of International Studies at Cedarville University, with some great information
this morning. So we know the decision to choose Leo
the fourteenth, and typically cardinals choose these names based on
previous popes and the way that they ruled the Catholic Church.
So what do we know about his choice to go
(05:19):
with Leo the fourteenth? How will that indicate how he
will lead the Catholic Church for the next several years.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Absolutely, it's a fascinating question. And we've seen a lot
of analysis already on Leo the thirteenth because he was
the pope at the tail end of the nineteenth century during.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
The Gilded Age, and he.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Spoke out a lot on social justice issues, working conditions
and things of that nature. But my sense is that
we'll have to wait to see what Leo the fourteenth
says about himself and the reason for the pick, because
the range.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Of other Leos as well.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Leo the First, for example, in the fifth century, faced
down at Till of the Hunt and basically diplomatically persuaded
him not to attack Rome, and so I see levels
of left and right in the selection of Leo. Leo
the tenth is also the one that infamously excommunicated Martin
(06:17):
Luther in fifteen twenty one, and so there's that element
to it as well. And in the Catholic Tours, sainthood
is an important facet. Leo the first, second, third, fourth,
and ninth we're all granted sainthood, and I think it's
a nod to some of that as well. So there's
a deep history of Leo's but I do think it's
(06:38):
for Leo the fourteenth to explain why he selected the
name and which one is particularly important. But my sense
is that it's probably a cross between Leo the First
and Leo the thirteenth.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Fascinating you mentioned his age. He's relatively young for a
pope at the age. He'll turn seventy in September of
this year, so he could rule the church for another
couple of decades into his late eighties, possibly even getting
into his nineties. I don't know what his health situation
is like, unlike Pope Francis, who did have some health issues,
(07:11):
but I mean, he did make it to eighty eight,
so there was some concern that some of the cardinals
would not want a younger pope, so they could turn
the pope over in ten twelve years. But Pope Leo
could live well on into his nineties.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Absolutely, it's an important consideration because if we go back
to nineteen seventy eight, Pope John Paul the First lasted
for about a month, he was known as the September
Pope and then died very quickly.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
That's where we have the election of.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Pope John Paul the Second, who then reigned or governance
of twenty seven years, which is one of the longest
papacies in.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
The history of the two thousand year old church.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And so in the.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Selection of prevost as Leo the teens for absolutely right
in the question.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
He could lead the Catholic Church for a couple of decades.
He probably will not get to the extent of John
Paul the Second, but at the same time, this could
be a considerable papacy in terms of its length, and
we'll see about its impact.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Glenn I. One of the big questions, and a lot
of people were asking, is is Leo a White Sox
fan or a Cubs fan, because he is from Chicago.
And he did come out and say that he is
from the South Side of Chicago, so he is a
White Sox fan. Do you think that bodes well for
the White Sox in the World Series here in the
next couple of years.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
We'll have to.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Wait and see on that one. But there's been considerable
discussion about this because initially it came out that he's
a Cubs fan, but then that was retracted and said, no,
he's from the South Side and he is a White
Sox fan. But reportedly his family is very, very split
between the Cubs and the White Sox.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So we'll see
Speaker 2 (08:56):
How it plays out, but maybe the Reds will come
through instead for us.
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