Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to our number two. I dislike saying that
John number two.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Our number hour number. There you get jour number two
on Target.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We actually we're going to call this hour on Target
Law and Order because that is kind of the emphasis
of a lot of what we're going to be talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
This next hour.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
But first, but first, Paul, Paul during the break reminded
me he got a little bit jipped on this Christmas list.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So I got four is yours.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
And the reason why is that I want to get
this out because I have to leave.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And why do you have to leave? Because I have
things I have to get done? Like this is your
normal time for the show. I mean this is when
I normally leave. Okay, real quick.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
The bayonet that's on that table for forty nine ninety nine, Yes,
has a little thing over the tip of it. Yes,
I like to have that, like to have a cleaning kit.
When we first opened the store, I brought a big
case of my cleaning stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, something like this. Yep.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I gave all my cleaning stuff to the store. I
have nothing, all right, Wait a minute, I go on
and I sorted t shirts um here on sale for
I think fifteen dollars now, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You stole a double x.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Uh yeah, okay, that's all I got.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
That's all you got. Now.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I don't want to and I don't know this to
be fat so I don't want to put rumors out there.
But that bayonet you're looking at, I thought that's the
one you gave me to sell from yours.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Could have been you never will he wantsn't back.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
You know what's sad though, is that we used to
go to gun shows and we would look at bay
nets like that and they.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Were eight dollars.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, I mean they were cheap, and I bought a
bunch of them.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, we did, you know, we did in the years.
And then I gave Narya yep, all of them, a
lot of them. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Is that it? Are you done? Hey? I'm done? All right?
The first hour we probably got the best rating.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Okay, have a great comparison. So let's let's hear it
for Paul Paul.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Today, right, okay, and Papa, where can they drop off gifts?
Right here at the station, at the station. We're at
your seat.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Okay, all right, thanks to Paul Paul. There, guys, Before
we get into something, I want to talk about about
truck drivers. One piece of news I thought was awful interesting.
You know, we had we I'll just tell you quickly.
Several years ago, I think it was twenty sixteen seventeen,
a individual walked into our store. His name was Andy
and he was actually the owner of a firearms company
(02:33):
called Theory on Defense, and his his their claim to
fame with the kind of pistol caliber car beings. They
were very well made. They broke apart nicely, but they
had him in every caliber you can imagine, and so
it was just a fluke that he walked in. We
happened to be doing a show, a local show that night.
I asked him if he wanted to set up with us,
and he did so. It was a great It was
(02:55):
the beginning of a little bit of a relationship. We
purchased some guns here, We sold some. We purchaed one
for the range, actually a short barrel one that has
a suppressor and actually still here today is actually out
for sale. And I had purchased forty five in their things.
So they were good solid firearms. I had one of
our listeners email me this week and said, did you
(03:17):
ever hear what happened to that company because I thought
that they might have went out of business. Well, not
only did they go out of business, jac tell us
a little bit about what happened to Andy.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, he was.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Approached at a gun show by an individual from Australia.
His last name was Monroe, and he convinced Andy to
perhaps send some firearms or gun parts and have them
shipped to Australia.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Australia, they're not known for no, they're not being gun
allowed to be there.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And so I said, you know, how do you do this?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You just sell them to me.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
We'll put them in this crate that I have with
all the section machine. We have a false bottom. So
he was sending them. He was selling them to this
gentleman for about a thousand apiece and the gentleman was
selling them in Australia for five thousand apiece.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And so but is that wrong? Is that right?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I mean, apparently to the gentleman in Australia turned out
to be a little wrong because one that he sold
was to an undercover agent in Australia, and the undercover
agent sou and he was sentenced in Australia that gentleman
to ten years in prison. Well, the information goes back
to the FBI atf and they paid a visit to
Andy or your friend Andy, and he was sentenced I
(04:40):
think twenty years to life something like that because it
was it turns out it was a terrorist organization. He's
applying arms terrorists in violation of like everything you could
think of from a a gun dealer.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And what I read to JC, which is kind of
who had the nail on the coffin, is not only
was he shipping them over there, they had developed some
crate that had a false bottom to it.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Had automatic parked in the bottom.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And so so if you're looking to own a part
of history, we have one of the pistols here that
was on the range with an AR pistol shot browed
rifle with suppressor on.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Have a one of Indies guns. Well, should be totally
legal for you. Yes, goodbye here, So.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So I thought that was kind of tidbit. Thanks for
the gentleman. I think Matt, I think it was his
name for writing in this week.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Guys. Let's sift here a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
And we were trying to have a caller call in,
actually an acquaintance who was a truck driver to talk.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
About this shifting gears a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
That that was okay, shifting gears.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Something that he brought up this week which I had
never thought of, John, is that with the rise and
crime across the country, especially property crimes, they are targeting
our truck drivers and I didn't realize how much they're
being targeted. Let me let me throw out some status
here for you. Cargo theft. Now, this is a report
that was done here recently. Cargo theft in North America
(06:06):
has increased by forty nine percent in twenty twenty four,
with major freight hubs bringing the primary targets. A pool
of truck drivers, they did a poll on them about
how many times they've been the victim of a crime
over the.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Last couple of years. And this pool now is a
couple of years old.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
They said forty percent of truck drivers have been victimized
by crime on the road, and the vast majority of
that was violent in nature. Listen to what some of
the respondents said about the crimes against them. These are
our truck drivers who are moving the product across the country.
Here this one said, I had a fractured skull and
(06:46):
smashed left shoulder by a guy with a baseball bat
trying to rob me at a truck stop. Someone shot
through my passenger door of my semi going down the road.
I was robbed at gunpoint at a truck stop. I
had objects thrown at my truck that caused damage. While
traveling down the interstate, my truck was shot up, shot
up while driving, A brick was thrown through the front windshield.
(07:09):
Two people tried to get in to my truck. I
was assaulted in my truck. I was raped in my truck,
shot at. It goes on and on. Robbery at knife
point in San Francisco. I woke up today at a
truck stop, poked my head through my curtain, came face
to face with the barrel of a pistol. And when
we talked to our friend about this, he says, it
(07:30):
is not uncommon now for you to be parked on
the side of the road and wake up and someone
has tried to get into the back. And the point
of all of this is that many of these truck drivers,
the laws are such a patchwork of laws that they
can't legally carry often and if they can have a gun,
it has to be locked up in them, you know,
(07:52):
locked here and stuff, and his point was, we need
to look at either the reciprocity the nationwide restler property
for CCW. This individual has his we need to look
at that. And he's hoping that this new administration will
take this up again because before when President Trump was
in there, I guess it was a topic.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
But it's something we hadn't thought about previously.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Jaz No, No, it's it's it's exactly right when you
think about it, My goodness. I often thought about you know,
you see what happened in in overseas where every time
we set helicopters out or something, a twelve year old
kid with a phone sitting there calling in, going, hey,
you know this convoy's going out. This is going out?
Why everyone knows where the ammunition is being made? And
(08:36):
I always just you know, surmise that there's somebody watching
the trucks and just tell me that you couldn't if
you got a load of ammunition, if you could somehow
stop that truck. As my understanding is, as they don't
go with security cars with them, et cetera, which I
thought would be very practical. But there's some I mean,
when you think of the goods that get transferred and
where they come from. And and you know, firearms of.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Not just that.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I mean you could rob a truck from anything.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
There's just they call everything that we right.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Remember we did a story while back about the train
cars in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
They were breaking open and they think that was an
inside job. They're breaking open train cars and stealing hundreds
of firearms out of the out of the cars.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
It just it amazes me.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Again it goes to what's logical and what makes sense
and what's right and to limit these these truck drivers
who are across our roads all the time, who are
who we see have had an uptakeing crime and violence
against them, but we tell them they can't do anything
or they make it extremely difficult to do anything excepting
that that should be discussed in the firearms community.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And it's you know where where it comes into this patchwork.
That's why I think this if there was something you know,
national where truck drivers could go through and be certified,
go through a training you know sessions. But right now, yeah,
you can carry in some states like Ohio. We you know,
we have constitutional carries. So if your truck driver Ohio, yep,
you can carry just like the rest of us can carry. Uh,
and the federal government has a couple of things that
(10:04):
that that stand out that can help.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I wouldn't go to New Jersey period. I wouldn't go
to New Jersey period. If my if I if my
wife dies, I said, I will go to your funeral
as long as it's not New Jersey.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
It's I mean, right now you could get three that's
mandatory three years in prison only being appealed to the governor. So,
I mean, there's just all this patchwork which we have.
So a lot of people think, hey, if I have
concealed carry, there are many states with a HIGO concealed carry,
you can you can, you know, go in twenty six
different states. And but as a truck driver you have
(10:40):
to you have to follow whatever the rules are of
that states.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And yep.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
So it's it's it's a it's a mess.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, definitely something we'll keep up on. Guys.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
We're gonna jump to a break on the other side
and continuing with on target Law and Order. We're gonna
talk to our good friend Lieutenant Bryan Steele have FOP
Live number nine. We're gonna talk about the Melee that
occurred after the Michigan High State game last week here
at Ohio Stadium. We're on Target broadcasting live from l
EPD Studios on Bethel Road.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
We'll be right back song.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I just wish, I just wish I could keep the
politics out of Springsteen.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, so I agree with you, guys.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Welcome back ton Target. I'm your host. Derek joined today
with JC. Had my father here for the first hour
and the donuts called his name and he's gone. He
got his Christmas list off his chest and he got.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
He did have a drill in his hand.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Guys, I wanted to bring on our next guest, our
good friend, good friend, Lieutenant Brian Steele from FOP Lodges
number nine. There was a little bit of an incident,
I guess you might say, after the High State Michigan
game last week involving some officers actually from multiple jurisdictions
right there on the field, played out right there in
front of the audience across the nation, and during that
(11:53):
some players were mased. And you know, I just all
online people calling for investigation. So I thought I'd bring
in the expert when it talk in regards to this
and who knows this stuff?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Inside and out. Our good friend, Brian, how are you doing, sir?
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Good?
Speaker 6 (12:05):
How are you? Gentlemen? Say that one more time, Brian,
how are you gentlemen?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
We are great. How you been out there? You've been
staying warm?
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Yeah, I'm actually working the street today outside. It's a
little chili, but it's a good day.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It was a little chili last week for the game
working out there.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
Oh that was freezing. I last at about one quarter
and I went home. Nothing better than my own share
and fireplace and dog to watch a game.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I know, And it was even it felt like thirty degrees.
Colter on that outbound traffic, let me tell.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
You, yeah, well I listened to you and all your guys.
You do a great job and we appreciate. It'd be
an absolute mess down there if it wasn't for you
guys out there direct the traffic. So thanks for all
you do.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Absolutely wouldn't think anything. I wouldn't think of not doing it. So, Brian,
what obviously a big thing happened after that. We're not
used to seeing and specifically mace was used during the incident.
Talk a little bit about that, talk about why it's
important to investigate that and the use of mace.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
Yeah, so listen. Some people call it a tussle, some
call it a fractice, a dust up. Bottom line, as
a law enforce an officer, it was a fight with
assaults occurring. The coaches lost control of their players, the
staff lost control of their players, and again it was
up to the men and women of Central High law
enforcement to regain control and order. Chemical spray is one
of the lowest level use of force, and officers are
(13:23):
allowed to use it to protect themselves, to protect others,
and to stop assaults. There was ongoing assaults. It's being investigated,
and this is a good thing. A notion that officers
are free to use force whenever they want without repercussions
is just false. The officers are required to report their
use of force. A supervisor, most likely a sergeant such
as yourself, will investigate that use of force and that
(13:45):
will get sent up to the chain of command and
their superior officers or commanding officers will will decide was
the force good or was it not good? What I
saw was a good use of force all day. Again,
refer that to OSU police for their investigation. But at
the end of the day, we have to support our
officers and thank them for what they did that would
have gotten more violent. Just because they're on the fifty
(14:05):
yard line doesn't make it okay, right, And you.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Know you talk about mace or OC being very low
on the continuum. I mean you're talking about something with
no residual effects. It's you know, it gets the message
across at that time. But it's an effective tool that
law enforcement has used for a long time. And I know,
I mean to your point, we have to investigate it.
You have to look, you got to make sure our
(14:30):
men and women are within the bounds. But in this
case where you have such a you know, a kind
of an uncontrolled scenario, the I mean there was an
OSU officer I believe that was actually injured fairly bad
out of.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
This serious serious injury, serious head injury. Officers spent about
a day and a half in the hospital. Is home
recover not back to work yet. And that's being investigated too,
and possibly criminally. We support these investigations right anytime you
support it's an important check and balances to investigate officers.
If the officers are found outside the policy, they will
(15:04):
be held accountable. But for what I saw within policy,
all day long, and just the only thing lower than
mace on a totem pole would be to physically place
someone to the ground, arm bar, joint control, leg sweep,
good luck taken you know, a six five eighty pounds
d one athlete by the way, and take it him
to the ground. Mace was the right thing.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
To do, right, And talk a little bit too about
what in what circumstances have you seen in your career
where mace where you might not be authorized to use mace.
I mean you can't use it in any scenario. I
mean you can't just simply because someone doesn't want to
sign a.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Citation use mace.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I mean there's there's some scenarios where it's not okay
to do that.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
Sure, So in the city of Columbus, now we won't
use it against you know, a passive protester, peaceful protester.
We won't say, you know, get out of the road
anymore and then we'll spray them. We determined that is
no longer a policy, and that's just only for most
police departments. You could use it in a case like this, again,
there's an assault occurring. You're either trying to affect, arrest
(16:07):
or stop an assault, protect yourself for others. That's what
the officers were.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Doing, right right, So hopefully that all becomes unfounded and
we can move on and stuff. But again, like you said,
I mean just having the presence there of officers. We're
thankful that they were able to move in on that
and be there and and help break it up, because
I think I think it would have gone on a
heck of a lot longer without them there on the field.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
It would.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
The police are the ones that stopped us from continue.
And I will tell you I have full faith in
Dennis Jeffries is the new chief over there, longtime CBD commander,
outstanding leader. He will continue to run an outstanding shop.
We have full the FLPs full trust and confidence in him.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Absolutely, I've heard very good things about him as well.
So what people are asking now for Brian, We're talking
to Lieutenant Brian Stale of CPD. Are you going to
be out there if a game occurs here in a
couple of weeks, another game at OSU Stadium? Are you
going to be out there directing traffic with us?
Speaker 6 (17:03):
That's a good one. That's how called it is desicated,
as you maybe at.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Least bringing us coffee or something. Yeah, I do.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
You know. I worked those teams for years, as you know.
I worked there for years directing traffic, and I worked
for bicycles and for years, and you know, I just
I got to the point of life with the kids
age that I thought, you know, I'd rather take them
down there or be home watching the game. But listen,
if you need me, you call me. I'll never let
you down. I'll be there if you're sure of guy.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
All right. You know we're right right there, laying in
old Tangent. I've that big old intersection right there, so
you got it. I love it, all right. Hey, thank you, Brian.
Be safe out there. And if we don't catch if
we don't talk to you sooner, have a great Christmas
to you and your.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Family, all right, Mary Christian Jente will be safe, Mary.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Chrismas Lieutenant Brian Stale, you know, he always has a
good perspective.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
He's been out there.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I mean he's out there in the field. I was
working now, you know, so it's always good to hear
from him and his perspective. And I you know, when
I first heard that there's allegations that mace was used
and it wasn't used right. My My initial responsor was,
come on, this is a you know it was it
was chaos, and this is very low on the use
of force. But to Brian's point, there, if there's nothing,
(18:08):
if there's nothing wrong with what you did, then you
shouldn't have a concern with them investigating it and putting
the blessing that hey, yeah, this was an effective use
of force. So yeah, except politics, except the politics right,
exact except but the new chief of os U two
is really good guy, for some really good things about him,
So we're anxious to hear that as well. To see
(18:29):
we have a couple of minutes here, let's see you
got you got anything? I know, we can talk you
know what you want to talk about the stats for
for Columbus.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
It seems like we have a lot of minutes though.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Oh yeah, wow to the bottom of the bottom.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Of the eye.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah, so let's talk about the cost of shootings
in Columbus. Did you see that report that came out
a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
This is staggering to me. I don't know, yeah, anything
that when the government puts something out, I don't know why.
I think like most of the citizens anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
We just have doubts.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
So I I find this, you know, if this was true,
it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And talk about some of the cost that and this
just put out, I think in conjunction with right here
in Colembus, the Crime Prevention Group or something like that
by the Mayor's office.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Right the National Institute for Criminal Justice Reform, and they're
in the Columbus's Office of Violence Prevention. And what this
is is cost per shooting, and they break it down
into many categories, a fatal shooting, in a non fatal shooting.
And I was, I guess what, I was amazed at
the total account because they take a look at everything
(19:39):
from at the crime scene, so when the police first
get there, then they go to the medical. Well, it's
the fatal shooting. It doesn't mean you know, obviously maybe
different than the guy's laying their dead already, but if
it's turns into a fatal one, the medical cost, the
criminal justice cost, which is the police investigation, public defender
port costs, then the corrections of the pre trial and
(19:59):
courser the prison incarceration. That's why I didn't understand, because
this was for the fatal shooting. But this is for
the guy who did the did the shooting. So so,
but they add this all up victim compensation, victim advocate.
But this came up to I'm not spoiling anything here,
but the total cost in a fatal shooting average was
(20:22):
two million, one hundred and twenty six thousand dollars, nine
hundred and thirty one dollars, two million over two million,
one hundred thousand dollars in a fatal shooting.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
And then you just I just am staggered by that way,
and you you flip it and you and you look
at the number of shootings. I don't know what we're
up to, four hundred this year or something like that.
But the cost per non fatal shooting, you're you're you're
pushing three quarters of a million dollars.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Yeah it was, Yeah, seven hundred and thirty eight thousand
and six hundred dollars is the average for a non
fatal shooting.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And John, these you know, good stats to know. But
this should empower these agencies which I would beg the question,
what has the Columbus Division of Crime Prevention or whatever
they call themselves, what have they done?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I mean, we need enough of zero. Yeah, just not.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I mean, enough of this. You know, we need to
talk to the community. We need to do something. I mean,
come on, guys, this is this is costing us. It's
costing all of us. We need to put people in
those positions who can affect change, and we just don't
seem to do that. If you look at the who
makes up that group, I guarantee you there's not one
(21:36):
pro gun person in there. There's not one person in
there who's a law and order type person. It's all
of this feel good. Let's let's talk to them. Let's
ask them why they're robbing people a gunpoint and they
can't keep their kids under control. Enough is enough, guys.
Let's let's do something to affect change. Let's put them
behind bars, open up Tico again, or whatever the juvenile
Detention center was. Let's do something to affect it. And
(22:00):
let's add people to these agencies, whether it be local
with this with this group, or national with what we
talked about last week with President Trump, the National.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Gun Violence Uh yeah, the Office, the Office of Gun
Violence or whatever. Who has zero gun people in that group.
Let's get serious and put some people in there.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Who anti gun people.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
That's what it was.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
It was all the main folks that want to take
away firearms in the United States. That's who was in
the Office of of of Violence.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So let's let's talk about how they're getting their guns.
They're they're breaking into cars. So why don't you bring
the gun stores in locally who are selling these guns
and help us to educate the new gun owners on
securing them.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Maybe instead of spending twenty.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Thousand dollars to help people in the hood with their
broken tail lights, maybe we invest that back into giving
out gun stats for your cars.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Just a novel idea.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
That's crazy, and you're absolutely correct, it's it's And I
still have that article that we didn't really talk about much,
but the Very Police magazine, which is for all police
departments all of the United States, and there head police
psychologists said that by the time they're eighteen, the average
male the dead mail had killed on the tea on
(23:17):
the screen playing video games. That's killed over one hundred
thousand people on the video game, including police officers.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah. Absolutely, and they're just so used to it, they're
nerds to doing this.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
You've got sites, you have a gun, you're appointed, and
then I get out there. I know it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
JC.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Let's jump to the bottom of the hour news and
we come back on the other side. We're going to
continue on Target law in order. We're going to talk
about Hunter Biden's pardon with Dave Deviller's former US attorney
for the Southern Discouncil. Get his take on it and
tell you why it's a bad move for the country.
We're all talking broadcasting live from the studios of LAPD
Firearms and Range. Will be back right after the news.
(23:53):
Welcome back to on Target. Let me wait till all
the studio audience gets seated back in place. Okay, they're
all seeing now start looking.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Back on Target.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I'm you hysteric doin today in the LAPD studios. JC
is sitting to my right. Popball is probably home by
now Ed is in a tree stand. Guys, last week
we learned that President Biden was going to pardon his
son Hunter for a bunch of past crimes and I
don't know how this works, but also for a bunch
of crimes that he that has not yet been determined.
I would like to get that blessing. But one that
(24:24):
really kind of has us upset is his pardon of
his gun crime. And that's where he lied on the
forty four to seventy three, which is the first line
of protection when selling firearms. He lied on that, and
the President came out and this was his quote. He says,
you know, without other aggravating factors like it being used
in the crime, or multiple purchases, or buying a weapons
(24:46):
a small purchase, people are almost never brought to trial
on felony charges solely for how they filled out a
gun form or lying on it. And I looked at
that and I said, so you're encouraging what's commonly referred
to on the street to lie and try because the
system is not perfect. And so now you're saying to
all those felons and those people who will have a
(25:08):
weapons disability, that come on and just go ahead and
try it. Well, let's test the system to see if
you can get yourself a gun.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Well that's our president, all right. Yes, when it comes
to lying, he is a master.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So absolutely so, we thought we'd bring in our good friend,
Dave Deviller's former United States Attorney for the Southern District Council,
to get his thoughts.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
How you doing, sir, good? How are you guys doing great,
it's been a minute since talking to you. It's always
good to hear your voice. So what did you think
when you heard this?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
You were involved in a lot of these cases in
the day when you were working for the US Attorney's office.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
What were your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
On the I wasn't surprised at all. I'm quite frankly,
we heard over and over and over again pre election
that there was going to be no pardon. I wasn't
even a little bit surprised. You know, I suppose he's
got that power. Other I guess I get it, but
I'm not happy with all the lives that took place,
you know, before the election.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
How about I mean, how about the pardoning specifically on
the gun part of it. You know, the President said
always wasn't involved in a crime. The darn gun ended
up in a trash can accessible anymore?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I mean, what is that?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
What precedents does that set for US law abiding gun
stores and citizens who are relying on the system to
prosecute people when they when they lie on the form.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
Yeah, why bother having informed to begin with? Right? I mean, yeah,
these are these are serious cases, and you know there
there are certain prohibitions to having possessing a firearm, which
he was. He was convicted of both lying on the
ATS form but also possessing the firearm, you know, as
someone addicted to a highly addictive drug. I think it
(26:53):
was crack cocaine as well. I think he had a
mess issue. And you are extreme statistically, you are extremely
highly more likely to commit another crime when you're addicted
to those sort of drugs. That's why it's one of
the few different prohibitions on having a fire being a
convicted fealon, you know, being convicted of a mistermeanor domestic violence,
(27:16):
adjudicated menimally ill, having a restraining order, you know, on
you for stalking. I mean, these are the sort of
things we look at common sensically and say, hey, these
people shouldn't be possessing firearms because it is highly likely
they will they will use them an offense that could
seriously injure or kill somebody.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, and the thing is, too, how do you the
next time, you know, the prosecutor's office goes and charges
someone for lying on a form, whether they be a
felon or whatever there was. I mean, I'm thinking this
is an easy, easy for the defense. Now, I mean
the president said, hey, without any other aggravating factors, you know,
no harm, no foul. You know, all we did was
(27:59):
lie on the form. I mean, how does how do
prosecutors get those successfully prosecuted going forward?
Speaker 5 (28:06):
One percent? The next time someone goes for sentencing an
on the sort of of crime, that's exactly what the
defense attorney is going to say. The defend is going
to get up in front of the judge and say,
this person should get probation or something, you know, lesser
than than than the guideline ranges. Say, because look, if
we're going to have you know, equal you know equal uh,
(28:30):
look under the law, then how come one you know,
rich from the president doing the exact same thing my
client did gets a walk and my guy at least
gets the phony conviction. He shouldn't have to go to
prison as well. And we we've had cases, I mean,
one of the cases that stick out when I always
used attorney was the horrible Date massacre where you know,
(28:50):
the guy used the gun to kill numerous people, and
we were able to trace that fire arm back to
a person who was addicted to drugs. And we're not
we didn't suggest any way that he knew this guy
was going to commit an offense, was gonna couldn't commit
these murders. He didn't, clearly he didn't. But he was
in a position himself where he went in bought gone
(29:12):
even components of guns, and then provided to this this
other guy who wasn't prohibited, but he himself, that is
the defendant that bought the gun. He was addicted to
drugs and making bad decisions and providing that gun to
this person was a bad decision. Why because he's addicted
to drugs. People got killed for us and and you
know he went to prison. I mean, he was charged
(29:34):
the exact same charge to Hunter Biden was charged with
and he was in prison and he didn't commit another
crime himself.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Well well, and you know the thing too.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And we know we've reported here over the years the
statistics from a federal level of uh, I mean, it's
pretty low unless you get into some of these extenuating
circumstances like Dayton where those those people who got caught
lying on the former actually prosecuted. But one of the
things that that we've found out within the recent couple
(30:05):
of years is that now local jurisdictions, and we've done
it here right in our store. Local jurisdictions can now
charge those individuals locally or by state statue for lying
on the federal form. So hopefully that you know, skun
stores will look at that and we'll start to get
more convictions or at least more people charged in it,
because I know it would be you know, an ominous
(30:26):
task to have all of those go through the federal system.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Well, you know, we did for a while. There's a
big push on straw purchases, and that was more of
using straw purchasers to go in and buy firearms and
just go out to the parking lot. Right, they don't
have a prior fility conviction, They're going to buy it
for someone who does. And they make money off of
selling these buying and selling these these these firearms to
(30:51):
make a profit off it. They get they get orders
for guns, and they were doing that and they were
prosecuted for that particular particular crime, mostly for giving it.
The felons are selling it. The felons. And the reason
why quite often you don't see draw purchases in cases
convicted or of case of crimes is because we need
(31:12):
them as prosecutors to testify against the other person. So
you got to cut up a deal. For example, Jonathan
Holt was the case I tried as a murder, and
you know, it was a cold case murder. We need
to find out who did it. We were able to
trace the gun back to the person who bought it,
who sold it to this guy, and you know, we
brought him into grand jury. You know, end up not
(31:35):
putting him on the grand jury, but saying, hey, there's
a body of his gun. You know, you're the last
person to purchase the gun. We knew he didn't commit
the murder because for various reasons, we knew he wasn't
the person. But yeah, we had to cut a deal
with him to testify it, tell usque he sold the
gun to, because we're able to link the shellcasing from
that gun to the crime scene, so we know that
(31:56):
was the gun that was used. But we we either
let a murderer walk or use this guy to find
out where the murderer is and testify against it. And
that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Yeah, no, no, that's exactly what happens. The systems and
plea deals. One of the first things that goes are chargers.
I mean, it just seems to be kind of across
the board.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I don't know, and I think though, and you might
say that, you know, lying on the form, what harm
is in that? But there is the system isn't perfect,
and I am sure there are cases where the system
has led stuff through for someone who is lied and
tried and it has gone through. So, you know, personally,
(32:34):
and I'm a kind of a big law and order
type of guy, I would like to think, even if
it's locally, that these gun stores have a great relationship
with their local PD and if someone gets denied, well
there's probably a good chance that they've lied on that form.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
At some point. Let's start charging them.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Let's let's make it painful for someone to consider lying
on the form, because invariably we're gonna let guns on
the street that we don't want.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
On the street at some point. So I'm all for
for cracking down on that.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
And it seems like that that's that's sicklar so like
it will go like a few years without not necessarily
trying to concentrate on that sort of thing, and then
all right, let's let's all of a sudden, you know,
for ATF is willing to and it is busy, don't
get me wrong. They're not goofing off, you know, they're like, Okay,
let's let's designate some agents to go after these people.
(33:27):
Let's dig through this stuff. Let's wait down a parking lot,
or let's find people that have been denied and maybe
multiple times, right, maybe they went to right, you know,
multiple gun stores, and let's let's let's devote resources to
prosecute them. But then that goes away. You know, that's
for you know, twelve months or eighteen months, and that's
just a you know, that's just the nature of resources
(33:50):
and law enforcements unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Right, Well, Dave, I really appreciate your time today. Always
good to talk to you, and make sure it doesn't
have this much time between the next time you jump
on with us. So have a great Christmas to you
and your family, and thanks for coming on giving your perspective.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
You two guys.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
All right, guys, that is Dave.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Deviller's former US State's Attorney still and attorney right here
in Columbus and a good guy, I mean, really a
great perspective. We've worked with him over the years, way
back when on some of the cases actually with some
of his people and stuff, and actually JC he came
up with or under Ron O'Brien, so he's turned out here,
so good friends, Yes, love resolutely, guys, Let's jump to
(34:32):
our last break when we get back with On Target,
Law and Order. I kind of like that Jac on Target,
We're gonna talk about this heinous crime in New York
City this weekend.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Maybe a little bit different perspective at least something to
think about from from our standpoint.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
So we're on Targeting broadcasting live from the studios of
LAPD Firearms and Range. We'll be back after this break. Jasey,
do you think they paid LM or today since you
had to spend two hours with us?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I don't know. Ellis you get a for today? Oh?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Okay, okay, we probably do. Oh yeah, yeah, we gotver
kudos over the year. So welcome back to On Target,
On Target, Law and Order. I'm Here's Derek joined today
with JC sitting here. We have Ella back at the
studios making it all work thanks to our good friend
Dave de Villars calling in Brian Steele. Before that, guys,
(35:24):
there was a heinous act this week in New York
City playing out before cameras. It seemed like it all
plays out before cameras. These days, and we wanted to
kind of break it down a little bit and kind
of give some thoughts and insight. We don't know anything
more than anyone else, but just kind of going talking
with others who do know.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You wanted to kind of to look at it.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And one of the things, John, when you look at
the video, it is evident that there is some type
of a suppressor on this firearms. Local news media and
national media were reporting kind of incorrectly that the gun jammed. Well,
I don't think necessarily the gun jammed.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
It was just a thing.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
You saw what happened, right, I don't know firearms, you're right.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So one of the one of the things that we
thought or we wanted to clear up is that typically
if when you have a suppressor on a pistol like that,
and if you're using subsonic ammunition, either commercially or maybe
loaded yourself, there's a chance that that firearm may not
cycle because the pressures aren't enough to cycle it. So
(36:26):
that is not totally surprising when you see what occurred
with that gentleman, and he didn't seem surprised. You see
when he fired and cycled, he seemed pretty card His
routine routine, yes, like a routine yes. So so that
that is something that that came apparent to us. And
(36:46):
the other thing too, is that if you are truly
trying to be quiet, that keeping that action closed and
not the gun not cycling. We're noise sometimes on these
books pressers, the noise of the cycling of the firearm
is what you hear, or was most prevalent. Some of
(37:06):
the old school assassin type guns weren't intended to cycle,
and so that is something else that came to mind
when we saw it.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Yeah, I mean, once a slide comes back, I mean,
anything allows the noise to escape, you want everything to
go through, and how you do that is to keep
everything closed, so until the bullet leaves and is gone,
the sound is contained suppressed. So silences aren't like you
see on TV. But you go, you know, you pull
a trigger and you don't hear any noise at all,
(37:37):
and the averager cuts it down by about thirty decibels,
which is about what hearing protection is. But in this
particular case, as soon as I saw it, I went, wow,
that's a really long suppressor that's on a handgun, I mean,
and then I started looking. I watched the video probably
a dozen times in slow motion because it's very fuzzy.
(37:58):
But what you see is after the guy takes a shot,
he calmly lowers it. You see his hand make a
twisting motion. You don't see a slide coming back. I
saw the back of his hand basically the whole time.
There was no slide coming back over and covering it.
He twisted. It seemed like he you know, pulled, And
they with the news media, Hey, you know it jammed. Well, well,
I don't think it jammed. As a matter of fact,
(38:20):
the FBI doesn't think it jamd, so they think it's
the particular.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
So talk about that, Johnny. I mean you kind of
picked up on it. And then this morning we're seeing
reports of this.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
I started trying to do some research and I had
to go to Connecticut to find a research. So a
newspaper called The Connecticut Insider. And what what the article
was is that the it said, you know, the gun
sold in Connecticut is not linked to the killing of
the United Healthcare CEO. It says, so what's going on there?
(38:53):
New York said, Hey, what's this about. Well, it turns
out that the FBI, you know, you have a lot
of arms experts out there watching what happened. They don't
want to give much away, but they had a good
idea of what the gun was and it was probably
one of one of two guns. And the one saws
for eleven thousand dollars now, so they figured that probably
(39:13):
wasn't it because it's a World War two when they
came out with this gun, it's called the well Rod.
I just I can't go into the history because I
love it, and that's why I spent a lot of
time looking at old photos from then. But that gun
was still used even in Fallusiah that they still had
had made enough of those old original guns. But a
new company had picked up on it.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
B and T.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
It's a Swiss commercial firm that makes really high end stuff.
Well they took a look at that and they came
out with their version which looks extremely similar. And B
and T started out by making suppressors, so now they
make firearms, and they said, hey, well we'll come up
with this one. They call there's this Station six, The
original one where row was called the Station nine. It
(39:59):
was a secret thing that was in London. So they
made their copy of it. And why the FBI was
there because this is a suppressed weapon and it would
be have to be registered with the federal government on
the National Firearms Act. You have to pay two hundred dollars,
you have to for a tax stamp, you have to
send it in, you have to have your fingerprints. They
(40:20):
do all that stuff before you're allowed to purchase the gun.
That had been done on a gun that was sold
in Connecticut. So they went there to see if that
person had any who bought the gun, had any connection,
and now he had the gun and he had no
connection at all. They were able to but the fact
is is they weren't telling anybody what they suspected the
gun to be. But one of the police officers of
(40:43):
a state police officer was talking to the FBI guy.
He goes, yeah, yeah, we think it's we think it's
a Station sixth that the guy used, And so that
went out to the papers. Even though everyone was saying,
don't talk about it, don't talk about at least the
FBI thought that that could be the gun. This is
not a cheap throwaway gun, right, twenty two hundred bucks
(41:04):
you know, plus tacts.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
These, but they're readily available.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I mean, I can't order one today in nine or
forty five, there mayby B and T day. And what's
unique John, and talk about you know your traditional semido
has a slide that you would you would assume that
you have to get a good grip on to racket.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
The B and T though, has it's bold action.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
It's so the bolt stays shut. But the bolt is
just a round knob, neuraled knob at the back. And
so what you see when you look at this as
the guy points it down, it doesn't eject. You do
that manually. So he turns the knob to unlock it,
pulls it back, which injects the cartridge spent spent casing
pardon me. Then you push it forward to load a
fresh cartridge, in turn it to lock it and bang,
(41:49):
fire it. And then he does it again. So he
fired three times. But you can see the guy is
so calm. You always done this before, you know that
this is what has to be. It's not like oh
my guns, jay, one my gun. You know, he just
does it boom, does it boom? Does it boom three times?
And so uh, you know, but it's a very interesting
it is.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
And if and if I mean if they do determine
or if they have an inclination that that is, I
mean that that greatly helps the investigation because it's a
suppressed it's a suppressed firearm.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
So that goes to the NFL check.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
There is a finite number of them, and guess what,
it's on a list, so they can they can go
to be and Tea and say, you know, where have
you sold these? You know, I can't imagine it's one hundreds, but.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Where have you sold these? And they can pretty easily
back into who've purchased them?
Speaker 4 (42:38):
All action single single shot does have a magazine to
three feet it but but in the cous twenty two
hundred dollars, there's just unless you they said, actually the
officer said, hey, it's either going to be you know, collector,
you know, for a collector or some some weirdo if
you didn't want to use it just for you know,
for for doing that. But it's not a throwaway gun
for most people. Twenty two hundred dollars. I used it
once and let's toss it, you know, so, uh.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
If it's a paid head, but you're gonna you talk
about a straw purchase if you if you I mean
that's a well thought out straw purchase. If you have
to go through a background check, the fingerprints, yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
You're yeah, you already turned that into the FBI already,
so they have you know, they could they could easily
trace that gun, which is what they did. The fact
that they went so quickly to find out. Hey, wonder
sult in Connecticut.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
I wonder what I mean, but I would think there's
many sold out there, so I can't. I wonder why Connecticut.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
I wonder at that price, I just I you know,
I just think it would be relatively rare. How many
people you know, now there were gonna be people who
want to buy one, going, hey, I want to have,
you know, one of these guns. I've never ever heard about.
But uh but uh yeah, I looked up the originals
are going for eleven thousand plus on on gun broker
now for the original ones that were made in World
(43:49):
War Two. But uh but yeah, so anyway, but the uh,
this one, they make them the new ones and maybe
either a nine milimeters or in forty five. The original
ones were thirty two or nine millimeter, And like you
had mentioned, usually they're sub sonic, so you don't have
the crack of the baking the you do hear that
when you break the sound barrier, that leaves the crack
(44:10):
and you so there will be see.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
I would imagine if I was that gentleman. The walls
were closing in with those pictures with the technology facial recognitions.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Unusual that he used. Uh, they recovered three casings and
then they recovered three intact cartridges and they all had
the names written on of of what happens when you
get denied by United Healthcare and he wrote all those
three so certain that those were left in particular. But
in fact they use full metal jacket because they have
(44:39):
a you know instantly.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, guys, thanks for spending the last two hours with us.
What John it was. What a great time, What a
great time. Thanks for spending the time with them. I
want to give a shout out to Ron.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
I hope he's feeling better, but we really appreciate it. Yes,
Ron Wilson giving us the slot.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Absolute guys stopped by and see it.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
We staw have a time of see didn't even talk
about today going on leftover from Black Friday on the
certain guns. There's some membership sales going on. We have
a clearance table, we have an estate sale, so much
more coming in for Christmas. Guys, be safe out there
and as always, as always, let's be careful at