Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So let's get the update on a couple of different
things that's happening now and bring in Brad Garrett, ABC
News Crime and Terrorism analyst out of Washington.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Brad, welcome to the show again.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
How are you, brother, I'm good, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
So let's start with the basis of the radicalization of
Luigi Mangioni is unclear, So give us the very latest
on this if you would please.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So if you start with looking at the documents that
the Altuna police found when they arrested him at at
the McDonald's in Altuna, you know, he basically admits what
he has done, but you know, he says it in
such a way. I mean, he talks about whacking the
CEO and that it's very clear by these writings and
(00:50):
I think others that the police may have at this
point in a notebook, that he clearly believed that killing
this healthcare CEO was a righteous thing to do. That
the healthcare industry is corrupt and you know it denies
claims to people and treats people unfairly, etc. But for
(01:11):
him to get from a person who is you know,
from an influential family super smart went to great schools,
Ivy League colleges, and then apparently in the last six months,
disappears and nobody hears from him. Now, there is a
period of time, I think even long before that, where
(01:32):
he did have a back injury and was in severe
pain I think till he had maybe a second surgery.
So how that plays into this whole thing against the
healthcare industry, obviously we don't know. But at some point
he had to started listening to or interacted with somebody
who had some really extreme ideas about how to deal
(01:56):
with the corruption perceived corruption in the health care industry,
in particularly the insurance part of it. So what happens,
I'm going to be generalized here. There's like four phases
of radicalization. One is that you start looking at and
maybe become intrigued with a particular extremist view of something.
(02:18):
Exactly the same thing happens with people who are an
Isis al Qaeda. Now I'm not comparing these, I'm just
telling you that psychologically this is what happens. And so
so you come into this and you get intrigged, or
I think he got intrigged. The stage two is where
you start believing what others are telling you and stage
(02:41):
three is you believe that violence is the only way
to address it. And stage four is you actually go
out and commit a violent act, which obviously occurred last week.
So I don't know how he got there. I just
know based on experience that he got there that through
some sort of mecha that got him to justify in
(03:02):
his own mind, that his writing support that he was
justified in doing it. And that's why, you know, he
is this sort of outburst where they're trying to get
him into the courthouse, and you know it's been You
can watch it and you know, and you can tell
that he's angry, he's righteous. You know, he feels like
he's he's the person who shouldn't be treated this way
(03:25):
because he did a quote unquote good thing.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Brad.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I don't know if you're of the belief I am.
I am kind of in shock as this story moves
on at the amount of support that he is receiving.
I feel like part of it comes from, especially when
they start breaking down who is giving the reporter, it
seems like they're spotlighting females. And when you look at him,
(03:49):
clearly he's a good looking guy. And I think I
heard one of my guests describe him as he looks
like a guy at one point who worked out eighteen
hours a day. He's all chiseled in some of those
shops with no shirt on and so on. So some
of that kind of believable or whatever. But the thing
that's a biggest head scratcher with me with this whole thing,
(04:09):
given his family background, and then the people that they
have interviewed that have been in his life previously now
I don't know if they were currently in there, and
you hear them talk about him saying, this is not
the same guy. Clearly, during this radicalization process, something was
clearly broken in his brain and he turned into such
(04:30):
a different person. It is crazy to me to think
that given the way that he was represented from people
who knew him in his life to what he is
now and how they're just going, I don't even know
this guy or whatever, it's even that more crazy to me.
And then the support publicly and they're calling it fifty
percent of the public, and I don't know what the
(04:51):
percentage is, but it's a large enough percentage for me
to cock an eyebrow at it and going, I can't
believe people are behind this guy.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I agree with that. Now, think about it in this
realm that when people become radicalized to pick something, you know,
whether it's an extremist group, domestic terrorist group, whatever it
might be, that they didn't it then becomes and this
is key for the people drawing you in, sort of
(05:22):
it becomes your identity. Now, why a kid with all
this going on would switch to that, maybe or maybe not,
we'll ever get the answers to that. But he must
have been lost in his own mind as far as
what he wanted to be, what he wanted to do,
and maybe this injury to his back sort of led
him in a direction toward the healthcare industry, and then
(05:44):
he started examining what it is or what he thinks
it is, and he found like minded people that help
him further sort of fall into this belief system. And
that's what happens it it's to the exclusion of everything
in your life. I mean, if he stopped talking to
his family for six months, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Right Brad Garrett, ABC News Crime and Terrorist analyst who
is joining us now. Brad, I want to skip to
the drone story that we know clearly has been everywhere
this week. I'm of the belief when I hear that
our White House and our Pentagon are saying they have
no idea who is responsible behind these drums. However you
(06:29):
want to quantify that, I am. I am in shock
that they would not have some sort of inclination as
to what could possibly be going on with this. But yeah,
clearly a lot of people talking about this story as well.
What do you think and what types of you know,
what types of things are you are you thinking.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
About with this?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Well, I'm not convinced that there aren't fastest of the
government that does know what it is. I don't know
that based on any information I have. I mean, if
you listen to John Kirby this afternoon, the National Security
Communityations person for the White House spokesman, he you know,
he basically said that it's a not a national security risk,
(07:12):
nor is it a foreign entity in other words, a
foreign power thing going on. Now, how does he know
that if they don't know what it is exactly right?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
It's kind of like you know, it's it's it's sort
of what you know. I use the phrase is sometimes
people don't say tell you something, so and maybe they
don't know exactly, but it doesn't seem like to me
on the surface they're worked up about it, and so
that it leads me to believe that they know what
(07:44):
it is. Now, you know, is it drones? I mean
I've heard police officers who've looked at it in the
sky in northern New Jersey say, you know, it's as
big as an suv, you know, I mean there are
bigger drones. There's commercial drones that are pretty good side,
and obviously there are military drones that are they carry payloads,
so you know, who knows. But it's it's hard for
(08:08):
me to believe that it's something a that's spine on
us or that once or wants to harm us. I mean,
are you gonna fly around with a lot of you know,
red green, white lights flashing if you want to come
and do something bad to somebody? It's it doesn't that
part doesn't make any sense either, So you know, you
kind of walk away and scratch your head and go
(08:30):
what is this? Hopefully somebody at some point will tell
us what it is.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Right, the only answer there is hiding in plain sight,
which is to your point, you're going, nah, there's no
way if it's if it's somebody who does plan to
do his harm, or they're gathering intel or they're doing
something with that, You're right, it would seem it would
they would want it more incognito.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
There's no question about that.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And then the other part that was the greatest point,
where you're going he's saying, look, it's nothing or it's not,
but we don't know what it is.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It's like, well, wait a minute, that was a really
good point.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Brad absolutely, man Absolutely, Brad Garrett, ABC News Crime and
Terrorist analytic terrorism analyst out of Washington.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Brad, thanks for spending a couple of minutes with us.
We appreciate you, man, You're welcome. We'll see it you too.
We don't know what it is, but here's what it is.
I thought that was a great point Brad just made.
It's like that makes all the.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Sense in the world official government speak. We don't know
where any of the thirteen million illegal immigrants are. We
know there are thirteen million of them, and we can
tell you what they had for dinner tonight, but we
don't know where they are. Yeah, did mangi this did
he really use the term whacked the guy?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Well, according to Brad, I did not read that. But Brad,
who's with ABC News National, would not. He wouldn't say
that if I don't believe he would just make that up.
I mean, Brad's been at it a while.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Speak any implications here, no demeaning of it. But I mean,
whacked the guy and his name is Luigi MANGIONI. I'm just,
I'm just. I was wondering how prominent and why is
his family so prominent that that's an odd term for
a young man to use. Whacked the CEO.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
They own a radio station. His family.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Did you see all this? Like, they owned a couple
of their businesses. I saw one of which was a
radio station.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
So they had a country club and a bunch of
land and healthcare facilities. And he's related to a Maryland
delegate also all that stuff. But I didn't see anything
about the radio station.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Also, I read in one of I had a big
stack of different types of angles for that that whole situation.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I was reading it yesterday. Don't have it in front
of me right this second.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
But and I'm paraphrasing, but he said his mom was
in a situation, she had an ongoing issue that she
would be treated for. She would meet her deductibles, which
I think were to the tune of around six thousand
dollars a year. She would meet her deductibles close to
the end of the year October November, and then the
(11:00):
doctor treating her, which would she would not have to,
you know, reach into her pocket any longer for the
rest of the year would then go on vacation or
be not available or be full up. His mom could
not see him again until after the first year, when
the deductibles reset, and then his mom had to start
paying out more money again because she was seeing this
(11:21):
guy on a regular basis, this guy being the doctor.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Now I paraphrase that whole thing.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I don't have the but that was the gist of
something to do with his mom was intertwined in this
in addition to his back injury, which was from a
surfing accident, which was crippling his ability to have sex
at one point.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
And you know, there's all these different things that you read.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And again I don't mean to be heartless here, but
if you're from this prominent, wealthy family, do you care
about the six grand deductible?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I mean, that's my first thought too.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
That doesn't make sense either.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, I don't know, there's a lot of stuff that
is not adding up with that.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And I even heard somebody earlier during Clay and Buck
basically send an email to Buck saying, Buck, your way off,
He's not a terrorist. And Buck was like, he absolutely
is a terrorist. When you look up the definition of terrorist,
he definitely is person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation,
especially against civilians, in the pursuit.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Of political aims. I mean, is it more. That is
the very definition of what we just witnessed.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
And this guy's trying to tell trying to tell Buck like, Buck,
sec Yeah, this guy's not a terrorist.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Your way off on this, No, he's not. He absolutely
is a terrorist. This guy by definition, if you will.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
That's a fascinating story, very sad, but also fascinating. And
then you see people putting these other signs up around
New York and they're saying, everybody better step up there
their security. Now, if you're running, you're a CEO of
different healthcare. So I was just like, oh, oh my gosh, dude,
we're living in the weirdest, craziest times.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Wait, but you know, let's not limit it to healthcare.
What about somebody out there goes. The gasoline is too
damn high. I can't afford to get back and forth
to work. What about people, because I can't afford groceries
for my family.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Any who's running and filling the blanket grocery store.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I mean, crazy people do crazy stuff. It doesn't just
have to be healthcare.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I fear that's where we're headed, and I hope we're
both wrong, clearly so
So let's get the update on a couple of different
things that's happening now and bring in Brad Garrett, ABC
News Crime and Terrorism analyst out of Washington.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Brad, welcome to the show again.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
How are you, brother, I'm good, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
So let's start with the basis of the radicalization of
Luigi Mangioni is unclear, So give us the very latest
on this if you would please.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So if you start with looking at the documents that
the Altuna police found when they arrested him at at
the McDonald's in Altuna, you know, he basically admits what
he has done, but you know, he says it in
such a way. I mean, he talks about whacking the
CEO and that it's very clear by these writings and
(00:50):
I think others that the police may have at this
point in a notebook, that he clearly believed that killing
this healthcare CEO was a righteous thing to do. That
the healthcare industry is corrupt and you know it denies
claims to people and treats people unfairly, etc. But for
(01:11):
him to get from a person who is you know,
from an influential family super smart went to great schools,
Ivy League colleges, and then apparently in the last six months,
disappears and nobody hears from him. Now, there is a
period of time, I think even long before that, where
(01:32):
he did have a back injury and was in severe
pain I think till he had maybe a second surgery.
So how that plays into this whole thing against the
healthcare industry, obviously we don't know. But at some point
he had to started listening to or interacted with somebody
who had some really extreme ideas about how to deal
(01:56):
with the corruption perceived corruption in the health care industry,
in particularly the insurance part of it. So what happens,
I'm going to be generalized here. There's like four phases
of radicalization. One is that you start looking at and
maybe become intrigued with a particular extremist view of something.
(02:18):
Exactly the same thing happens with people who are an
Isis al Qaeda. Now I'm not comparing these, I'm just
telling you that psychologically this is what happens. And so
so you come into this and you get intrigged, or
I think he got intrigged. The stage two is where
you start believing what others are telling you and stage
(02:41):
three is you believe that violence is the only way
to address it. And stage four is you actually go
out and commit a violent act, which obviously occurred last week.
So I don't know how he got there. I just
know based on experience that he got there that through
some sort of mecha that got him to justify in
(03:02):
his own mind, that his writing support that he was
justified in doing it. And that's why, you know, he
is this sort of outburst where they're trying to get
him into the courthouse, and you know it's been You
can watch it and you know, and you can tell
that he's angry, he's righteous. You know, he feels like
he's he's the person who shouldn't be treated this way
(03:25):
because he did a quote unquote good thing.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Brad.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I don't know if you're of the belief I am.
I am kind of in shock as this story moves
on at the amount of support that he is receiving.
I feel like part of it comes from, especially when
they start breaking down who is giving the reporter, it
seems like they're spotlighting females. And when you look at him,
(03:49):
clearly he's a good looking guy. And I think I
heard one of my guests describe him as he looks
like a guy at one point who worked out eighteen
hours a day. He's all chiseled in some of those
shops with no shirt on and so on. So some
of that kind of believable or whatever. But the thing
that's a biggest head scratcher with me with this whole thing,
(04:09):
given his family background, and then the people that they
have interviewed that have been in his life previously now
I don't know if they were currently in there, and
you hear them talk about him saying, this is not
the same guy. Clearly, during this radicalization process, something was
clearly broken in his brain and he turned into such
(04:30):
a different person. It is crazy to me to think
that given the way that he was represented from people
who knew him in his life to what he is
now and how they're just going, I don't even know
this guy or whatever, it's even that more crazy to me.
And then the support publicly and they're calling it fifty
percent of the public, and I don't know what the
(04:51):
percentage is, but it's a large enough percentage for me
to cock an eyebrow at it and going, I can't
believe people are behind this guy.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I agree with that. Now, think about it in this
realm that when people become radicalized to pick something, you know,
whether it's an extremist group, domestic terrorist group, whatever it
might be, that they didn't it then becomes and this
is key for the people drawing you in, sort of
(05:22):
it becomes your identity. Now, why a kid with all
this going on would switch to that, maybe or maybe not,
we'll ever get the answers to that. But he must
have been lost in his own mind as far as
what he wanted to be, what he wanted to do,
and maybe this injury to his back sort of led
him in a direction toward the healthcare industry, and then
(05:44):
he started examining what it is or what he thinks
it is, and he found like minded people that help
him further sort of fall into this belief system. And
that's what happens it it's to the exclusion of everything
in your life. I mean, if he stopped talking to
his family for six months, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Right Brad Garrett, ABC News Crime and Terrorist analyst who
is joining us now. Brad, I want to skip to
the drone story that we know clearly has been everywhere
this week. I'm of the belief when I hear that
our White House and our Pentagon are saying they have
no idea who is responsible behind these drums. However you
(06:29):
want to quantify that, I am. I am in shock
that they would not have some sort of inclination as
to what could possibly be going on with this. But yeah,
clearly a lot of people talking about this story as well.
What do you think and what types of you know,
what types of things are you are you thinking.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
About with this?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Well, I'm not convinced that there aren't fastest of the
government that does know what it is. I don't know
that based on any information I have. I mean, if
you listen to John Kirby this afternoon, the National Security
Communityations person for the White House spokesman, he you know,
he basically said that it's a not a national security risk,
(07:12):
nor is it a foreign entity in other words, a
foreign power thing going on. Now, how does he know
that if they don't know what it is exactly right?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
It's kind of like you know, it's it's it's sort
of what you know. I use the phrase is sometimes
people don't say tell you something, so and maybe they
don't know exactly, but it doesn't seem like to me
on the surface they're worked up about it, and so
that it leads me to believe that they know what
(07:44):
it is. Now, you know, is it drones? I mean
I've heard police officers who've looked at it in the
sky in northern New Jersey say, you know, it's as
big as an suv, you know, I mean there are
bigger drones. There's commercial drones that are pretty good side,
and obviously there are military drones that are they carry payloads,
so you know, who knows. But it's it's hard for
(08:08):
me to believe that it's something a that's spine on
us or that once or wants to harm us. I mean,
are you gonna fly around with a lot of you know,
red green, white lights flashing if you want to come
and do something bad to somebody? It's it doesn't that
part doesn't make any sense either, So you know, you
kind of walk away and scratch your head and go
(08:30):
what is this? Hopefully somebody at some point will tell
us what it is.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Right, the only answer there is hiding in plain sight,
which is to your point, you're going, nah, there's no
way if it's if it's somebody who does plan to
do his harm, or they're gathering intel or they're doing
something with that, You're right, it would seem it would
they would want it more incognito.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
There's no question about that.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And then the other part that was the greatest point,
where you're going he's saying, look, it's nothing or it's not,
but we don't know what it is.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It's like, well, wait a minute, that was a really
good point.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Brad absolutely, man Absolutely, Brad Garrett, ABC News Crime and
Terrorist analytic terrorism analyst out of Washington.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Brad, thanks for spending a couple of minutes with us.
We appreciate you, man, You're welcome. We'll see it you too.
We don't know what it is, but here's what it is.
I thought that was a great point Brad just made.
It's like that makes all the.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Sense in the world official government speak. We don't know
where any of the thirteen million illegal immigrants are. We
know there are thirteen million of them, and we can
tell you what they had for dinner tonight, but we
don't know where they are. Yeah, did mangi this did
he really use the term whacked the guy?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Well, according to Brad, I did not read that. But Brad,
who's with ABC News National, would not. He wouldn't say
that if I don't believe he would just make that up.
I mean, Brad's been at it a while.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Speak any implications here, no demeaning of it. But I mean,
whacked the guy and his name is Luigi MANGIONI. I'm just,
I'm just. I was wondering how prominent and why is
his family so prominent that that's an odd term for
a young man to use. Whacked the CEO.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
They own a radio station. His family.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Did you see all this? Like, they owned a couple
of their businesses. I saw one of which was a
radio station.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
So they had a country club and a bunch of
land and healthcare facilities. And he's related to a Maryland
delegate also all that stuff. But I didn't see anything
about the radio station.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Also, I read in one of I had a big
stack of different types of angles for that that whole situation.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I was reading it yesterday. Don't have it in front
of me right this second.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
But and I'm paraphrasing, but he said his mom was
in a situation, she had an ongoing issue that she
would be treated for. She would meet her deductibles, which
I think were to the tune of around six thousand
dollars a year. She would meet her deductibles close to
the end of the year October November, and then the
(11:00):
doctor treating her, which would she would not have to,
you know, reach into her pocket any longer for the
rest of the year would then go on vacation or
be not available or be full up. His mom could
not see him again until after the first year, when
the deductibles reset, and then his mom had to start
paying out more money again because she was seeing this
(11:21):
guy on a regular basis, this guy being the doctor.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Now I paraphrase that whole thing.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I don't have the but that was the gist of
something to do with his mom was intertwined in this
in addition to his back injury, which was from a
surfing accident, which was crippling his ability to have sex
at one point.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
And you know, there's all these different things that you read.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And again I don't mean to be heartless here, but
if you're from this prominent, wealthy family, do you care
about the six grand deductible?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I mean, that's my first thought too.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
That doesn't make sense either.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, I don't know, there's a lot of stuff that
is not adding up with that.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And I even heard somebody earlier during Clay and Buck
basically send an email to Buck saying, Buck, your way off,
He's not a terrorist. And Buck was like, he absolutely
is a terrorist. When you look up the definition of terrorist,
he definitely is person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation,
especially against civilians, in the pursuit.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Of political aims. I mean, is it more. That is
the very definition of what we just witnessed.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
And this guy's trying to tell trying to tell Buck like, Buck,
sec Yeah, this guy's not a terrorist.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Your way off on this, No, he's not. He absolutely
is a terrorist. This guy by definition, if you will.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
That's a fascinating story, very sad, but also fascinating. And
then you see people putting these other signs up around
New York and they're saying, everybody better step up there
their security. Now, if you're running, you're a CEO of
different healthcare. So I was just like, oh, oh my gosh, dude,
we're living in the weirdest, craziest times.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Wait, but you know, let's not limit it to healthcare.
What about somebody out there goes. The gasoline is too
damn high. I can't afford to get back and forth
to work. What about people, because I can't afford groceries
for my family.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Any who's running and filling the blanket grocery store.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I mean, crazy people do crazy stuff. It doesn't just
have to be healthcare.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I fear that's where we're headed, and I hope we're
both wrong, clearly so
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'Monster: BTK', the newest installment in the 'Monster' franchise, reveals the true story of the Wichita, Kansas serial killer who murdered at least 10 people between 1974 and 1991. Known by the moniker, BTK – Bind Torture Kill, his notoriety was bolstered by the taunting letters he sent to police, and the chilling phone calls he made to media outlets. BTK's identity was finally revealed in 2005 to the shock of his family, his community, and the world. He was the serial killer next door. From Tenderfoot TV & iHeartPodcasts, this is 'Monster: BTK'.
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