Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And he's FOP President. Lodge nine. Brian Steele in studio with us and
uh, Brian, I don't know. I mean, I got to tell
you. Over the years that I'vebeen doing this, I used to be
in rock Radio. I used toyou know, we had a I want
to say the name of the segmentwe did was called like cop Talk or
(00:20):
something like that, and so peoplestarted calling Chief Gilbert actually when I believe
he had just went to Franklin Countybecause he was on CPD for a long
time. He was in and atthe time, Sheriff Scott would come in,
Sheriff Zach Scott, who's obviously nolonger shaff but they would come in
and people would call in with likequestions like that, and they would ask
(00:42):
different things like so if I'm driving, I don't know. It actually started
getting to the point where it wasreally almost kind of ludicate, like what
they were asking, you're just likestaring at the phone going we were,
but it was really entertaining, likepeople, so people, if you guys
have a question for Brian, andyeah, let's bring that back. Let's
(01:02):
bring cup talk back. Well that'swhat I was thinking. I was like,
you know, since you're here instudio with us, if people do
have some sort of a police typequestion or policing type question by all means,
since Brian is in here. Lookhe's a guy who's been around the
block a few times and he willshoot straight with you, I guarantee at
one thousand percent. But it wasinteresting too. This morning you send me
(01:25):
a text and you're like, Hey, this article that you're actually quoted in
in the article about, you know, the agency's debating proposed law to ban
police take it and arrest quotas.We talked about it. Was it last
week Josh on the show, Likewe were talking about there's an article that
came out. Yeah, there was, I'm talking about. Yeah. I
(01:46):
can't remember exactly what it was,but I remember like when Mike called in
and yeah, sever yeah, yeah, it was a it was a good
discussion. But yeah, I cannotremember what the gist of the article was
that prompted that discussion. Yeah,it was basically like do they do agencies
really have quotas? Like they haveto write so many tickets because they got
(02:07):
to try to make money for theagency or what have you. And you
start talking kind of off air andtelling me a little bit about it.
But this article, there's a coupleof different things in here. There's some
stuff about Whitehall, the police chiefthere, Mike Crispin, and then there's
you know, the toxic environment that'sgoing on there. And then on top
of that, it's about the arrestquotas. And this is a rest quotas,
(02:30):
different obviously than ticket quotas like peoplewriting a ticket, but a quota
nonetheless, I think people might kindof almost like lump them together or say,
like quotas in general. So whatare your thoughts first and foremost about
this? And you've been clearly,you're on record and you've been talking a
lot about it lately. Yeah,So there's really not much debate over this.
(02:52):
The Fraternal Order Police we veemibly opposeany kind of quota system. There's
House Bill three thirty three. It'ssponsored by Representive Miller and Sweeney and if
prohibit its quotas in law enforcement.What's happening is some agencies, such as
Whitehall, they quote quotas, theymask it as shift expectations or perform in
measurements. Right, you can callit whatever you want. It's still a
(03:12):
duck. There's really no debate.The sheriff came out and said he's against
the quotas. Almost every police chiefI've spoke to in Franklin County is against
the quotas and don't have them.And you find that in your more professional
led organizations. Really the Whitehall chiefhe's on an island by saying, hey,
I oppose this bill. Yeah,well so that's one thing that I
(03:35):
feel like is is injured. HouseBill three point thirty three would outlaw ticket
and arrest quotas by prohibiting law enforcementfrom using it as a way to evaluate
an officer. The last part ofthat is kind of the head scratcher for
me evaluate an officer? What doesthat mean? Like you would you have
to meet a certain quota or you'rethat's it, You're done. Yeah,
(03:58):
that's the measurement we're going to useus to judge if you're an effective American
police officer. How many people youarrest, how many tickets you write?
We do arrest people in this job. We do write tickets in this job,
but we do so much more.Where's the evaluation on how many medical
runs you went to, how manyhow many cars you push this side of
the road, how many people youhelped that was having a mental health and
crisis, how many businesses you checked. We have to obviously provide a public
(04:23):
safety, but we're also there toserve the public and to maintain trust and
confidence. And when you have aquota system, you're eroding that and you're
setting us back. Well, we'removing forward. I was just gonna say,
I mean, and if you havean arrest quota system, that is
just to me that that tramples overconstitutional rights. Because if it's an arrest
(04:45):
quota system, then you know you'regoing to have officers feel pressure to come
up with the you know, potentiallymake up the silliest reasons to be able
to throw somebody in cuffs just tocheck a box. I mean, I
can't imagine if you know, onwhat planet you know, while sorry,
I had to arrest this guy becauseI had to get at least want to
(05:05):
arrest in today, I can't imaginewhere what courtroom that would fly in if
it was proven to be true beyondthe shadow of adule and the officer had
to trump up a charge to meetthat. I mean, that doesn't make
sense that I was just this ideathat that happens that's got to be like
in the tiny, tiny, tinyminority of all agencies. And it is.
(05:29):
But our job of the FOP isnot only to advocate for officers,
but for the community we serve.Right the FOP is coming out, we're
talking about a problem. If thiswas the Urban League talking about this problem,
the NAACP, the clergy, youbetter believe it'd be on CNN.
But think about it. The FOP, who quote unquote is the person who's
supposed to protect bad officers as we'reoften you know, labeled, as we're
(05:49):
out there trying to support the officersand the community. It does have pressure.
You need to have discretion. Imight pull you over for a tail
light. Now you have a validlicense, you have a clean record,
you're respectful. Nine out ten timesI'm going to send you on your way
with a warning with this quote ora performance expectation. I'm now pressured to
(06:09):
write you a ticket when honestly youprobably didn't deserve one. Yeah, that's
that's the scary part. And I'mreally glad to hear you come out and
say that because you can support andGod knows, this show does and we
are one thousand percent back to bluebut you know, you you can be
(06:29):
a good officer, you can supporta great police work, you can support
the men and women on the frontlines. But at the same time,
you just you can't ignore the constitutionalrights that everyone has and that the relationship
between the agency and the community isjust as important as enforcing the actual laws.
(06:53):
At the end of the day,we are protectors. We are not
revenue generators, and that's one ofthe reasons we oppose this quota system.
We will call out our members whenthey're doing wrong. We'll call out our
union leaders when they're doing wrong.We will call out police leaders when they're
doing wrong. FOP President Lodge nineBrian Steeles in studio where us house house
built three thirty three. I wasjust talking about with outlaw ticket and arrest
(07:14):
quotas by prohibiting law enforcement from usingit as a way to evaluate an officer.
But are there are you aware ofany departments that really do have quotas
Because we talked about writing tickets andyou gotta meet to yep, we got
to write. We got to getthrough you know thirty each officer has to
write thirty tickets this month or thirtytickets over the next couple of months because
(07:36):
we got to make enough money tohelp support the agency or what have you.
Just flat out officers will say no, we don't have anything like that.
I think Officer Severance said that itwas a it was like there's so
many what do you call it,like there has to be so many interactions
(07:57):
or something along those lines. I'mnot sure. In other words, it's
kind of cloudy, it's milky,that whole thing. But are you aware
of if they have that. Theonly one I'm aware of is the City
of Whitehall under Chief Chrisman, andthey don't call it a quota, They
called a shift expectation. I'm lookingat a document right now where in in
one quarter last year an officer madetwenty I'm sorry, the officer made sixteen
(08:18):
arrests, seventeen reports, twenty sixcitations and he fell below the quota,
below the expectation, and the letterfrom a supervisor says, I will continue
to monitor activity, but if you'vefailed to approve, could result on progressive
discipline. So you're looking at theshift. How many tickets are written in
a shift. There's always going tobe a high, there's always going to
(08:39):
be low. So we could allwrite a ticket and write one hundred,
you write ninety, you're now belowthe target, below the quota, and
according to this document, now you'resubject to discipline that is not right and
we have to stop that. Andthis House bill will is that part of
what's causing the toxic, toxic environmentthat we're reading about right now? In
print you can see that I thinkI or I saw a report on it's
(09:01):
something along those lines, and yeah, you're not in your head. I
don't have it right in front ofme. But there are reports, there's
rumblings that there's a toxic environment withregard to law enforcement in the Whitehall area.
And is this part of what's drivingthat, or maybe it's most of
it. This is one of multiplethings there that the officers are simply just
(09:22):
tired, they're fed up. Theysty're saying, this is not what we
signed up for. We signed upto serve our public. Granted for we
enforce law as in the nature ofour job, but we also provide a
service and we want to build trustand value. And the officers are saying,
due to this toxic leadership, andthis is one example of where we're
eroding that trust and my hat's offto those officers. It just shows how
(09:43):
outstanding the white hall rank and fileofficers are. Hey, Brian, I
had a conversation with a couple ofpeople, and you know, I got
some friends in law enforcement. Justwanted to get your thoughts as FOP president
on the recent firing of a coupleColumbus police officers. Chief Brian, I
thought, at least did a verythought. I thought she laid out a
(10:07):
decent enough reason for why this hadto happen. And you know, like
you said, the Folie FOP believesprobably stronger than anyone for accountability for your
officers because you can't protect them ifthey're not helping to protect their fellow officers
by, you know, doing thingsthat could potentially harm the relation with the
public. I just wanted to knowif the FOP or you have a take
(10:28):
on what happened there. So wedo so regardless of the officer's name,
regardless of the allegation. I havestatutory obligation by the hile Viz Code to
conduct what's called a merit determination.I have to review that case from top
to bottom. Aurey's review it twoor three times. I'll sit down with
their attorneys, and the questions we'reasking is not what he did or what
he's accused to do or anything likethat. It's was the contract followed.
(10:52):
There's certain procedures they need to disciplinesomeone if they are followed. The FOP
has no role. We do notmake it to arbitration. If we look
at that and make a merriage determinationand decide there was steps that was missed,
there was a process that was notfollowed, then we have to fulfill
our legal obligation and then send itto arbitration to a third party. I
(11:13):
have reviewed those both cases. I'mnot prepared to give my decision yet,
only because I did not tell theofficers anybody that I arbitrate for or do
not arbitrate it for. I sitthem down in front of me, and
I tell them face to face.It's that old adage, he that issues
the scent to swings the sword.So it'd be premature for me to say
this on the air and understood understood, and I appreciate that, but it's
(11:37):
so for what people need to know, this isn't a matter of personal feelings.
This is you have a job todo as the president of the union.
This has nothing to do with emotionor anything. You are following it
by the book about what you areobligated to do. Correct. Similar to
an attorney, the defense attorney doesnot choose what crime that was committed by
a person. They have a legalobligation or consure that that certain things were
(12:00):
and we're the same. Thanks forclarifying. More with Brian Steele, FOP
President, Lodge nine, who's instudio with us. You can hang for
a little while, right, yes, okay, cool? More with him
And he's FOP President. Lodge nine. Brian Steele in studio with us and
uh, Brian, I don't know. I mean, I got to tell
you. Over the years that I'vebeen doing this, I used to be
in rock Radio. I used toyou know, we had a I want
to say the name of the segmentwe did was called like cop Talk or
(00:20):
something like that, and so peoplestarted calling Chief Gilbert actually when I believe
he had just went to Franklin Countybecause he was on CPD for a long
time. He was in and atthe time, Sheriff Scott would come in,
Sheriff Zach Scott, who's obviously nolonger shaff but they would come in
and people would call in with likequestions like that, and they would ask
(00:42):
different things like so if I'm driving, I don't know. It actually started
getting to the point where it wasreally almost kind of ludicate, like what
they were asking, you're just likestaring at the phone going we were,
but it was really entertaining, likepeople, so people, if you guys
have a question for Brian, andyeah, let's bring that back. Let's
(01:02):
bring cup talk back. Well that'swhat I was thinking. I was like,
you know, since you're here instudio with us, if people do
have some sort of a police typequestion or policing type question by all means,
since Brian is in here. Lookhe's a guy who's been around the
block a few times and he willshoot straight with you, I guarantee at
one thousand percent. But it wasinteresting too. This morning you send me
(01:25):
a text and you're like, Hey, this article that you're actually quoted in
in the article about, you know, the agency's debating proposed law to ban
police take it and arrest quotas.We talked about it. Was it last
week Josh on the show, Likewe were talking about there's an article that
came out. Yeah, there was, I'm talking about. Yeah. I
(01:46):
can't remember exactly what it was,but I remember like when Mike called in
and yeah, sever yeah, yeah, it was a it was a good
discussion. But yeah, I cannotremember what the gist of the article was
that prompted that discussion. Yeah,it was basically like do they do agencies
really have quotas? Like they haveto write so many tickets because they got
(02:07):
to try to make money for theagency or what have you. And you
start talking kind of off air andtelling me a little bit about it.
But this article, there's a coupleof different things in here. There's some
stuff about Whitehall, the police chiefthere, Mike Crispin, and then there's
you know, the toxic environment that'sgoing on there. And then on top
of that, it's about the arrestquotas. And this is a rest quotas,
(02:30):
different obviously than ticket quotas like peoplewriting a ticket, but a quota
nonetheless, I think people might kindof almost like lump them together or say,
like quotas in general. So whatare your thoughts first and foremost about
this? And you've been clearly,you're on record and you've been talking a
lot about it lately. Yeah,So there's really not much debate over this.
(02:52):
The Fraternal Order Police we veemibly opposeany kind of quota system. There's
House Bill three thirty three. It'ssponsored by Representive Miller and Sweeney and if
prohibit its quotas in law enforcement.What's happening is some agencies, such as
Whitehall, they quote quotas, theymask it as shift expectations or perform in
measurements. Right, you can callit whatever you want. It's still a
(03:12):
duck. There's really no debate.The sheriff came out and said he's against
the quotas. Almost every police chiefI've spoke to in Franklin County is against
the quotas and don't have them.And you find that in your more professional
led organizations. Really the Whitehall chiefhe's on an island by saying, hey,
I oppose this bill. Yeah,well so that's one thing that I
(03:35):
feel like is is injured. HouseBill three point thirty three would outlaw ticket
and arrest quotas by prohibiting law enforcementfrom using it as a way to evaluate
an officer. The last part ofthat is kind of the head scratcher for
me evaluate an officer? What doesthat mean? Like you would you have
to meet a certain quota or you'rethat's it, You're done. Yeah,
(03:58):
that's the measurement we're going to useus to judge if you're an effective American
police officer. How many people youarrest, how many tickets you write?
We do arrest people in this job. We do write tickets in this job,
but we do so much more.Where's the evaluation on how many medical
runs you went to, how manyhow many cars you push this side of
the road, how many people youhelped that was having a mental health and
crisis, how many businesses you checked. We have to obviously provide a public
(04:23):
safety, but we're also there toserve the public and to maintain trust and
confidence. And when you have aquota system, you're eroding that and you're
setting us back. Well, we'removing forward. I was just gonna say,
I mean, and if you havean arrest quota system, that is
just to me that that tramples overconstitutional rights. Because if it's an arrest
(04:45):
quota system, then you know you'regoing to have officers feel pressure to come
up with the you know, potentiallymake up the silliest reasons to be able
to throw somebody in cuffs just tocheck a box. I mean, I
can't imagine if you know, onwhat planet you know, while sorry,
I had to arrest this guy becauseI had to get at least want to
(05:05):
arrest in today, I can't imaginewhere what courtroom that would fly in if
it was proven to be true beyondthe shadow of adule and the officer had
to trump up a charge to meetthat. I mean, that doesn't make
sense that I was just this ideathat that happens that's got to be like
in the tiny, tiny, tinyminority of all agencies. And it is.
(05:29):
But our job of the FOP isnot only to advocate for officers,
but for the community we serve.Right the FOP is coming out, we're
talking about a problem. If thiswas the Urban League talking about this problem,
the NAACP, the clergy, youbetter believe it'd be on CNN.
But think about it. The FOP, who quote unquote is the person who's
supposed to protect bad officers as we'reoften you know, labeled, as we're
(05:49):
out there trying to support the officersand the community. It does have pressure.
You need to have discretion. Imight pull you over for a tail
light. Now you have a validlicense, you have a clean record,
you're respectful. Nine out ten timesI'm going to send you on your way
with a warning with this quote ora performance expectation. I'm now pressured to
(06:09):
write you a ticket when honestly youprobably didn't deserve one. Yeah, that's
that's the scary part. And I'mreally glad to hear you come out and
say that because you can support andGod knows, this show does and we
are one thousand percent back to bluebut you know, you you can be
(06:29):
a good officer, you can supporta great police work, you can support
the men and women on the frontlines. But at the same time,
you just you can't ignore the constitutionalrights that everyone has and that the relationship
between the agency and the community isjust as important as enforcing the actual laws.
(06:53):
At the end of the day,we are protectors. We are not
revenue generators, and that's one ofthe reasons we oppose this quota system.
We will call out our members whenthey're doing wrong. We'll call out our
union leaders when they're doing wrong.We will call out police leaders when they're
doing wrong. FOP President Lodge nineBrian Steeles in studio where us house house
built three thirty three. I wasjust talking about with outlaw ticket and arrest
(07:14):
quotas by prohibiting law enforcement from usingit as a way to evaluate an officer.
But are there are you aware ofany departments that really do have quotas
Because we talked about writing tickets andyou gotta meet to yep, we got
to write. We got to getthrough you know thirty each officer has to
write thirty tickets this month or thirtytickets over the next couple of months because
(07:36):
we got to make enough money tohelp support the agency or what have you.
Just flat out officers will say no, we don't have anything like that.
I think Officer Severance said that itwas a it was like there's so
many what do you call it,like there has to be so many interactions
(07:57):
or something along those lines. I'mnot sure. In other words, it's
kind of cloudy, it's milky,that whole thing. But are you aware
of if they have that. Theonly one I'm aware of is the City
of Whitehall under Chief Chrisman, andthey don't call it a quota, They
called a shift expectation. I'm lookingat a document right now where in in
one quarter last year an officer madetwenty I'm sorry, the officer made sixteen
(08:18):
arrests, seventeen reports, twenty sixcitations and he fell below the quota,
below the expectation, and the letterfrom a supervisor says, I will continue
to monitor activity, but if you'vefailed to approve, could result on progressive
discipline. So you're looking at theshift. How many tickets are written in
a shift. There's always going tobe a high, there's always going to
(08:39):
be low. So we could allwrite a ticket and write one hundred,
you write ninety, you're now belowthe target, below the quota, and
according to this document, now you'resubject to discipline that is not right and
we have to stop that. Andthis House bill will is that part of
what's causing the toxic, toxic environmentthat we're reading about right now? In
print you can see that I thinkI or I saw a report on it's
(09:01):
something along those lines, and yeah, you're not in your head. I
don't have it right in front ofme. But there are reports, there's
rumblings that there's a toxic environment withregard to law enforcement in the Whitehall area.
And is this part of what's drivingthat, or maybe it's most of
it. This is one of multiplethings there that the officers are simply just
(09:22):
tired, they're fed up. Theysty're saying, this is not what we
signed up for. We signed upto serve our public. Granted for we
enforce law as in the nature ofour job, but we also provide a
service and we want to build trustand value. And the officers are saying,
due to this toxic leadership, andthis is one example of where we're
eroding that trust and my hat's offto those officers. It just shows how
(09:43):
outstanding the white hall rank and fileofficers are. Hey, Brian, I
had a conversation with a couple ofpeople, and you know, I got
some friends in law enforcement. Justwanted to get your thoughts as FOP president
on the recent firing of a coupleColumbus police officers. Chief Brian, I
thought, at least did a verythought. I thought she laid out a
(10:07):
decent enough reason for why this hadto happen. And you know, like
you said, the Folie FOP believesprobably stronger than anyone for accountability for your
officers because you can't protect them ifthey're not helping to protect their fellow officers
by, you know, doing thingsthat could potentially harm the relation with the
public. I just wanted to knowif the FOP or you have a take
(10:28):
on what happened there. So wedo so regardless of the officer's name,
regardless of the allegation. I havestatutory obligation by the hile Viz Code to
conduct what's called a merit determination.I have to review that case from top
to bottom. Aurey's review it twoor three times. I'll sit down with
their attorneys, and the questions we'reasking is not what he did or what
he's accused to do or anything likethat. It's was the contract followed.
(10:52):
There's certain procedures they need to disciplinesomeone if they are followed. The FOP
has no role. We do notmake it to arbitration. If we look
at that and make a merriage determinationand decide there was steps that was missed,
there was a process that was notfollowed, then we have to fulfill
our legal obligation and then send itto arbitration to a third party. I
(11:13):
have reviewed those both cases. I'mnot prepared to give my decision yet,
only because I did not tell theofficers anybody that I arbitrate for or do
not arbitrate it for. I sitthem down in front of me, and
I tell them face to face.It's that old adage, he that issues
the scent to swings the sword.So it'd be premature for me to say
this on the air and understood understood, and I appreciate that, but it's
(11:37):
so for what people need to know, this isn't a matter of personal feelings.
This is you have a job todo as the president of the union.
This has nothing to do with emotionor anything. You are following it
by the book about what you areobligated to do. Correct. Similar to
an attorney, the defense attorney doesnot choose what crime that was committed by
a person. They have a legalobligation or consure that that certain things were
(12:00):
and we're the same. Thanks forclarifying. More with Brian Steele, FOP
President, Lodge nine, who's instudio with us. You can hang for
a little while, right, yes, okay, cool? More with him
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.