April 24, 2023 • 30 mins
Community DC Host Dennis Glasgow spends time with the CEO and President of Prevent Child Abuse America Dr. Melissa Merrick & Michele Booth-Cole, Executive Director of Safe Shores "The DC Advocacy Center" about Child Abuse and the Prevention of Child Abuse.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Good morning and welcome to another editionof Community DC. I'm your host NS
Glasgow. This morning, we hadto talk about a tough topic, but
it needs to be discussed and thatis child abuse. More specifically, it's
prevention. Today I will be joinedby the CEO Prevent Child Abuse, doctor
Melissa Merrick, and Michelle booth Colefrom Safe Shore's PCA DC. We'll be
(00:25):
going over the latest statistics, butmore importantly, how to recognize child abuse
and what next steps would be toreport and prevent whether you're co parenting a
family member, friend or co worker. Here's my conversation with doctor Melissa and
Michelle. Give a listen after today, in the future, you could be
preventing child abuse. Good morning,ladies, Good morning morning. Well doctor
(00:48):
Melissa and Michelle. It is justa thrill to talk to you both,
and we're going to talk a lotabout what you both do in this incredible
partnership that you have. But doctorMelissa, I'd like to ask you first
just about history of provenchild Abuse dotOrg and then we'll get into some context
about how you got there and alsoall the capabilities and strategies and resources and
(01:08):
this amazing partnership that you have withMichelle, and of course Safe Shores,
So why don't we talk about thatfirst, doctor Melissa, just go ahead,
Sure, great, Thank you,Dennis, and hello everyone. Prevent
Child Abuse America is the nation's oldestand largest national nonprofit that's really focused on
preventing child abuse and neglect before itstarts. So that's what we mean when
(01:33):
we say primary prevention. I thinkpeople think about child abuse and neglect and
they think, oh, violence isinevitable, but we actually have proven solutions
for prevention, and for the lastfifty years, Prevent Child Abuse America,
along with our state chapters nationwide,including Safe Shores, which is our Prevent
(01:53):
Child Abuse d C chapter, havebeen working with home Visiting program Healthy Families
America across the country around policy andadvocacy and making sure that we can assure
the conditions for health and well beingand really help parents and support families in
raising children in the healthiest ways possibleso that we can all reach our nation's
(02:15):
health, well being and prosperity goals. So we've been headquartered in Chicago for
the past fifty years. But again, there's a role for all of us
in this work, and we're justso pleased to be in conversation this morning.
Very cool, and Michelle was SafeShores and the DC Children's Advocacy Center.
Did I do my math correctly?Twenty years with this? Twenty years
(02:38):
in June? He smokes Michelle,Well that's a two, or do a
couple of decades. Congratulations, thatis wonderful. We'll tell us about Safe
Shores. Yeah, it's a callingand a privilege to serve and just say
I don't work alone. As Melissaknows, this work happens in partnership.
It's a community issue. Safe Shoresis a children's advocacy center which is a
(03:00):
nationally replicated model, and the modelwas created back in the mid nineteen eighties
to really make sure that when there'san allegation of child abuse and that case
is going to go forward or maynot go forward for prosecution, but the
response is child focused rather than systemsfocus. So rather than have that child
(03:21):
talk to multiple adults. So maybethere's a disclosure that happens at school and
the school would back in the daycall the police, but before then the
child would have told their teacher,the principle, the school counselor, and
then law enforcement would come out andmaybe they would take that child to the
police station in a squad car andhave them sit next to their desk and
tell them in a public place whatit happened to them, and then it
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would go on and on and onfrom there. The system back in the
day was not really focused on theneeds of the child. And what the
Child Advocacy center model does is itbrings all those players together, ideally in
one place, the Children's Advocacy Center. So we have law enforcement, child
protective services, prosecutors, utal healthprofessionals, pediatricians all working together to really
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prioritize the need of that child inthe context of the investigation. And then
we offer wraparound services as well,so advocacy therapy, whatever that child and
that family may need to get tothe other side of this really traumatic and
pactful, painful experience. And that'swhat a Child Advocacies Center does. And
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Safe Shores is the CIAC for theDistrict of Columbia, but there are over
nine hundred Children's Advocacy centers across theUnited States. They are usually connected with
law enforcement entities, and sacs togetherreach about three hundred and sixty five thousand
children annually, so as you canhear for our listeners, there's a lot
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of tentacles and capabilities when it comesto all the different things and just layers
that we'll get into a little bitmore in our thirty minute conversation. But
Doctor America, I do want totalk about this partnership that you have going
on. I think it's just amakes a lot of sense, you know,
for lack of a better word,synergy, there's that going on.
But tell us about how the historyand how you got together on this partnership,
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because it seems like it's a realnice one. Absolutely, you know
that prevention happens in partnership, likemy colleague Michelle already said, and it's
just so true, right, it'snot up to a single entity or a
single organization to protect children. Weall have a role to play, and
we really take a public health approachto this problem of child abuse and neglect.
And so the definition of public healthis really what we as a society
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do collectively to assure the conditions inwhich all people can be healthy. Right,
So, if you think of childabuse and neglect as we do,
as a public health problem, thatmeans there are proven public health solutions in
partnership across sector, across organization,across discipline. Right, there's a role
for teachers, for law enforcement,for therapists, but also for media,
(05:57):
right for listeners, for all ofus and neighbors. So prevent Child Abuse
America fifty years ago we started knowingthat we can't do this work alone,
right, So we really have asystems level approach where we're national and we're
advocating on the hill every day.We have a DC office, of course,
and we do a lot of policyand advocacy in national kinds of partnerships,
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but we also have work boots onthe ground. Like Michelle said about
the work that we have going onin DC, we have a nationwide state
chapter network, So the different kindsof work that might be happening in different
communities depends on that particular context.Right. And we also have this evidence
Space home visiting program that's another partnership, right, So Healthy Families America.
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We serve over seventy thousand families eachyear. It's basically a program that's in
six hundred sites, including thirty eightstates, the District of Columbia, and
all the five territories. And thisis a program that just helps support families
on the birth or adoption of anew baby before they're in crisis, right
before there's really a need, beforethere's any allegation or any risk of child
(07:06):
abuse and neglect, but helping newparents navigate new parenthood. Right. None
of us does this parenting job alone. And trust me, I have two
children myself and a PhD in childpsychology, but I need support every day
to raise happy, healthy children rightfree from violence and to take the edge
off. And right now, Imean, this is such a unique time
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to even be alive in our history, right coming, you know, on
this side of a global health pandemic, a time of really acute racial and
civil unrest, we're really being exposedto the root causes that just add to
the load on our parents, right, And so we all rely on each
other. We all need resources.Yeah, some of us it's concrete supports
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and monetary resources, others it's emotionalsupports. But we all are interconnected.
So because of that fact, weall rely on each other for prevention solutions.
So we're just so tremendously positive andhappy and thankful for the partnerships that
we have, like with safe shores, and like with other entities across this
(08:16):
great country. Well, thank youfor sharing all that in the partnership after
explaining it with some context, makesa lot of sense. And speaking of
context, Melissa, and then we'llget to you, Michelle, I think
it should be brought to our attentionbecause I know people brace themselves when they
hear about statistics. But you've gotto talk about that because this is part
of the whole plan about what kindof numbers we're dealing with when it comes
to child abuse or neglects. Sojust overall, domestically in the United States,
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what kind of numbers are we lookingat, just in general terms?
Melissa, Yeah, well, I'llsay, you know, our data in
these areas are difficult, right,and are imperfect. They're imperfect in a
normal time. They're certainly imperfect ina time of a global health pandemic where
children are outside of school and outsideof the contact where people you know,
can see early signs and such.But we would say nationwide, we know
(09:03):
that at least one in seven childrenexperience some form of child abuse and neglect.
I will say our systems are mostlyresponding and mostly seeing issues of neglect,
which really is confounded in our countrywith poverty. Right, so we
think about, you know, whatis it that families need right in their
(09:26):
own communities that could be delivered intheir own communities without stigma before families are
in crisis to keep children and familiesthriving. But you're right, it is
a big problem. And you know, will never really sometimes know the great
number and the prevalence because for someinstances of child abuse, like child sexual
(09:46):
abuse, for example, it mayonly be the victim and the perpetrator who
ever know about about that kind ofvictimization. But overwhelmingly I will say that
you neglect is the kind of experiencethat our child protective services systems are mostly
dealing with and are mostly navigating.All right, well, thank you for
(10:07):
sharing that, and Michelle, onceagain we can talk in general terms.
And I don't know if it's thedistrict or if it's the DMV, but
what kind of numbers are we lookingat in our area here? Well,
I can tell you how many childrenSafe Shores serves each year. We serve
roughly twelve hundred children who are mainlyaffected. Most of our clients are affected
(10:28):
by child sexual abuse because those arethe harder crimes to investigate. So that's
one of the reasons that ciac's ChildAdvocacy Centers came about in the first place.
And what we do know about thenumber of children we see is it's
just the tip of the iceberg.Child abuse and child sexual abuse in particular
are underreported crimes. It's hard toprove. But also we're talking about children,
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so they have to feel safe totell someone, and then if they
do tell someone, the adult hasto do something. They have to report
it to the police or to childprotective services. So we believe that we're
seeing just the tip of the iceberg. And what we do know in terms
of data around child sexual abuse isthat about one in ten children will be
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sexually abused by the time they turneighteen. That's across the United States.
That's a public health crisis, it'sa criminal justice crisis. And when we
think about the long term impact ofabuse that is not addressed, it says
a lot about what could happen inthe future if we don't do the work
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now. But y'all, I'm goingto ask some layman questions here and this
is also for our listeners too,that my being experiencing something like this right
now or know about something that's goingon. And I had a chance a
couple of weeks ago to talk tosomebody there in the Family Justice Center of
Montgomery County and it was about couplesabuse, and I learned a lot about
that, about soup to nuts,about how you contact and how you can
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stay safe and all those things.And I imagine there are a lot similarities
when it comes to that. Butwhen somebody see something or they know that
something's going on, but there's fearfulof calling and reaching out, what kind
of alternatives do they have and whatis your relationship also with law enforcement when
it comes to these very nicey situationswhere somebody would like to report something,
but they're fearful for themselves and alsothe people that are involved. Yeah,
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so when it comes to children,we really ask adults to do something,
to say something, to report,because children cannot protect themselves. And the
thing about reporting is, you know, when you report, you only have
to have a reasonable suspicion of abuse. You don't have to have all the
information, you don't have to haveall the facts, but you need to
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be able to articulate who that childis, where it's happening, what you've
seen. But there's really, youknow, no alternative to reporting. No,
that's the thing. We have tobring these issues to people's attention and
to the attention of systems that canstep in and protect children. So we
do encourage people if you see something, say something, and report. So
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they're different levels of intervention. ButMelissa, I see you want to get
into that, so say more.Yeah, I just want to underscore what
you said there, Michelle. Itis an adult's responsibility to protect children.
It's our societal responsibility to keep kidssafe. And the data are clear that
all children are like my children aresafer if all of our children are safer,
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and so this narrative shift from blamingand shaming parents right for child abuse
to instead we all have a roleto play in keeping children safe and thriving.
It's exactly what's needed in this area. Like Michelle said, if you
see something, you say something,and we all can be working to try
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to keep children and families safe andsupported before they find themselves in crisis.
Exactly right. That makes a lotof sense. And Melissa's I was going
over both you and Michelle's websites whenit comes to prevent childerbees dot org and
also unsafe shores. I was obviouslygetting educated because there's a lot to digest
in this area. And I'm curiousbecause it's been brought up a few times
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by myself and also by you.As far as law enforcement, I imagine
that there's always something developing when itcomes to law enforcement and how they treat
these situations, how they're contacted,how they address it. They have people
on staff also probably similar to whatyou know you do as far as you
know the mental aspect of this,because I think about just the mental wellness
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in these situations, not to mentionthe physical stuff is really complex. With
that said, when it comes tolaw enforcement, how much do you stay
in contact with the education Michelle whenit comes to just working with law enforcement
in general. Yeah, that's agreat question, and that's the beauty of
the Child out of Beocacy Center model. We work in partnership with law enforcement
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because these cases are reported either tochild protective services or to law enforcement.
So in the District of Columbia,there's a specific division of the Metropolitan Police
Department, the Youth Division, andwe not only work with them what we
provide training, We provide psychosocial education. The role of the CIAC is to
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help all these partners work together,and one of the key ways we do
that is by keeping them abreast ofissues in child development. Things that we
learn about brain development, like nowpeople are talking about it so much more,
but the brain doesn't stop developing untilpeople are twenty six twenty seven years
old. So the implications of thatfor children, for working with children are
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huge. Understanding that teenagers, whilethey may look grown and they may try
to talk groan, at the endof the day, their brains are not
fully developed right, and so theyhave to be treated and protected as in
that in between stage, but protectedas though their children. So we work
with law for law enforcement to provideeducation to help them do their work and
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also to help them hear children's voices. That is one of the key aspects
of the CIAC. We have peoplewho are specifically trained as forensic interviewers to
talk to child victims about their victimization, so that law enforcement doesn't have to
do that because they're often not trainedto talk to children about traumatic events.
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So in the model, you havea forensic interviewer and that's all they do
all day long, is to talkto children about trauma and then in an
adjacent room in real time on closedcircuit television, law enforcement is watching that
forensic interview so they can get theinformation they need. And yet all at
the same time, we're holding thatchild's needs, their mental health needs,
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their physical needs, their safety,their well being at the center of the
process. We have to remember thatchildren are little humans, right, They
are little people who need our protection. They don't know how to navigate these
things. They don't know often thatthe abuse is abuse because the perpetrator has
led them to believe that that's whatpeople do. Right. So this is
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why caring, responsible adults have tobe on the front line of protecting children.
And something Michelle said there, youknow, it just gives me an
entree. You can't say brain developmentwithout me chiming in here in Michelle,
But you know, I think wehave a tagline at Prevent Child Abuse America.
It says because childhood lasts a lifetime, And that sounds great and it
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gets you know, people hooked toour mission. But it's true to the
science. Things that happen today inchildren's lives stay with them across the lifespan
and across generations. And that's thegood things that happen and the bad things.
Right, So when we're talking aboutprevention, then we want to boost
these safe, stable, nurturing relationshipsand environments that are in child children's lives
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that will set their their cascade andtheir trajectory toward health and well being and
prosperity. Because we know that thingsthat happen now affect not just how the
brain develops, but also how ourimmune systems function, how our endocrine systems
function, even the way our genesexpress themselves are based on things that happen
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in childhood. So you know,leading causes of death like herdiovascular disease,
leading chronic diseases like diabetes, obesity, all of these things have roots to
early adversity. Right. We knowthat kids that have aces adverse childhood experiences
like child abuse, like neglect,like growing up in a home with parental
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substance use or parental incarceration, thesekinds of adversities actually increase your risk for
later health and well being issues later, you know, job productivity losses,
earlier death. Right, So wejust have this opportunity in per to change
those trajectories and to break those cyclesof violence. So it's just really really
(19:06):
critical, critical work. Yeah,Melissa definitely was touching on the adverse childhood
Experiences research, which dates back tonineteen ninety eight. I think the other
thing to mention here is that wehave to remember child abuse doesn't just happen
to people over there. This isan issue that cuts across class, it
cuts across race, it cuts acrosssocioeconomic spectrum. This happens everywhere. All
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children can be at risk for childabuse, and that's another reason we need
really comprehensive systems that adults participate into protect children. And one of the
ways that Safe Shortz puts that outthere is through training training adults, parents,
caregivers, teachers, coaches, anybodywho works with kids, faith institutions,
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volunteers. Right, there's a wonderfultraining designed for adults to teach them
how how to identify, respond to, and prevent child sexual abuse. It's
called Stewards of Children. Safe Shoreshas been offering this training to the public
since two thousand and seven. It'screated by an organization called Darkness to Light.
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It is a phenomenal training that helpsadults deal with this issue, but
also creates language and also creates aconnect the dots kind of approach, because
often adults will have a little pieceof information, like teachers in a school,
they may observe something in another teacheror somebody else who works there,
and they don't think they have enoughinformation to report. But if you create
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a culture where adults are talking toeach other about keeping children safe, about
what it takes to create an environmentwhere adults are taking responsibility, we can
shift the tide and create this huge, loving, caring, safety, protective
kind of environment that all kids needto be in because we want everybody to
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grow healthy. Right, that's theworld we live in. Violence, all
the things that we're seeing, likea lot of this comes from unresolved childhood
trauma, and we know we canintervene, and so that's what we're talking
about. That's what this prevention ofwork is about. All right, well,
thank you for sharing all that.I do have an overall question once
again, layman, question about thisthat I imagine with the advent of education,
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the internet, just learning in general, getting statistics together and having people
more on board that when it comesto reporting it's at least swiftly taken.
I want to put this property sopeople don't misunderstand my question about how somebody
can report something and then it'd beaddressed and taken care of, as opposed
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to maybe twenty years ago, wehad no internet, we had no social
media. There's probably no education forparents or family member to report this.
But now as you talk about thiseducation and we've got the Internet and you've
got all these social programs that educatepeople about reporting it, is it easier
now for people to report child neglectand abuse or is it even much harder
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because of all the things that wehave around us when it comes to social
media, the Internet, and stillbeing fearful of reporting something that people might
find really awkward. But you know, I'm just I'm trying to put myself
and somebody shooes it. If Isaw child neglect or abuse. I think
I know why I would do inthis situation, but I'm just not certain
depending on who the person is.So maybe you can address that, Michelle.
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Yeah, it's an interesting question,Dennis, and that's why it's so
important that you are addressing this andhaving us on your show to day to
raise awareness about this. I'm notsure whether it's easier, because you know,
human behavior, it takes a lotto change human behavior. It takes
decades. Think about smoking campaigns,think about seatbelt campaigns, think about what
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that took. And frankly, businesswas involved, industry was involved, corporations
were involved, the government was involved. All these parties had to create a
behavioral shift for people to start doingwhat was going to keep them safe and
keep them alive. Right, andso in some ways, yes, there
are systems that are built to beresponsive. That's why cacs exist. But
(23:17):
yet I think there's still a challenge. People find this issue very difficult to
deal with. People turn away,they don't want to address it. They
don't want to think it could happenwith somebody that they know. Oh that
person is this person in society,that person holds this status. I mean
in the DMV, we just hada case where the mayor of College Park
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was found with child pornography. There'sand now indictments on multiple charges. So
what we need to realize is thatno one can be above suspicion. If
we live in a world where ourfirst commitment is to keeping kids safe,
and we're putting things in place thatare practiced universally. So don't get insulted
because this rule is in place.This rule applies to every body. This
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is what we do at this school, this is what we do at this
camp. These are the things thatwe put in place to keep children safe.
So is it easier to report?They're definitely hotlines there, they're definite
people at they're ready to take thosereports. But we still have to overcome
this seeming reluctance discomfort. Right.I think the main thing is believe children.
(24:23):
Believe children, right, they asa rule of researchers, they don't
make these things up. I thinkthey're a free pretty simple that you say
that blue kids, blue children,Ye children. I agree, believe children
and recognize that violence is not inevitable, right, It's like we have prevention
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solutions. So I would say,I don't think it's easier Dennis, because
there is still this like, ohthat's happening over there. I don't want
to get in their business, youknow, I wouldn't want someone to do,
you know, this kind of thing, as opposed to a culture of
supporting one another and wanting the bestfor one another and really recognizing that if
I can take some of your loadoff, I'm happy to do that.
(25:07):
Right. And I think this goesback to relationships that make the world go
round, right. It was reallyit's critical as a new mom, a
working mom. I could call somebody, it'd be like, oh my gosh,
can you pick up lilianez Or I'mgoing to be late and the preschool
is going to be charging me adollar every minute. And you know,
but having that community, well,what if I don't have that community?
(25:27):
Right? What if I don't haveaffordable childcare? What if I don't have
stable housing, What if I don'thave transportation to take my children to all
of their appointments and such? Whatif I don't have paid leave and I'm
not sure how I can take timeoff to get the services and supports that
my family needs. So it alsopoints to we know some of the stressors
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and some of the risk factors thatmake violence in homes more likely, So
how do we get to those factors? Right? And to me, that's
where there's a real policy and addI could see role right, how do
we get paid leave, livable wage, you know, economics, supports for
families, child's care, healthcare,you know all of these things that actually
(26:11):
a child needs in their ecosystem.Right, how do we develop a comprehensive
prevention ecosystem. The way we dothat is by supporting one another and recognizing
that we all have a role toplay. Well, that's really well said
by both of you, and Ithink the one takeaway that I do get
and I do know for a fact, over the last twenty years, we
have better resources, and that's kindof what both of you been talking about.
(26:33):
We only have about maybe two anda half to three minutes left,
so why don't we do this?So Michelle, why don't we start with
you just maybe some final thoughts Andby the way, we're going to visit
with you two again because we've justhad the tip of the iceberg and it's
such an exhilarating conversation, educational.I'm learning a lot with our listeners here
about Michelle. Maybe just for theDMV to some final thoughts from you.
(26:55):
Yeah. So, I think it'simportant, like Melissa said, to remember
we are all acted. Human beingsare all connected, and we're not meant
to be disconnected. The pandemic hasshown us that people need one another,
and we have to build a worldwhere parents and caregivers have support, where
people aren't trying to do one ofthe hardest jobs on the planet, which
(27:17):
is parenting in isolation without the supportthey need, without the food they need,
the housing they need, that qualityeducation, they need all those things.
That's what creates our society, right, So we have to invest in
it. Right. And so yousaid there's a lot more resources. Let
me just say child abuse and chaudabuse prevention is chronically underfunded. These are
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things that people need to invest in. We just can't rely on individual donors
and foundations. We need businesses andgovernments and all these places with resources.
To realize that we all have arole to play. There's something that each
of us can do. Yeah,Michelle, I'm going to come back to
you in just a sec and foryour website, but doctor Merrik does some
(28:02):
final thoughts from you. We gotabout a minute left. Yeah, Well,
April is child abuse prevention months,so it's the perfect time to raise
awareness not just of the problem ofchild abuse neglect, butt of the prevention
solutions. And I will just sayclearly I echo everything that Michelle said,
but we know that prevention is possible, and we know based on science that
(28:23):
children are safer with their families thanfrom their families when their families have the
supports that they need to parent effectivelyand positively. Right, we all have
a role to play in keeping kidssafe and thriving. All right, Doctor
Mark, how about you your websiteplease sure where Prevent child Abuse dot org?
(28:45):
All right? And Michelle yours atsafe Shore's safe sh o r ees
dot org. Outstanding. I'm glad, really glad that we've had this conversation
and both of you, ladies andyour teams are in this world because we
need you, and I just thinkit's real special of what you and your
teams are doing. And I dowant to revisit and catch up with both
(29:06):
of you again and talk a littlebit more because, as I mentioned,
and I know you both know this, we're just hitting the tip of the
iceberg of all the capabilities and theresources and strategies and partnerships. And don't
forget donate buttons on their two folkson both the websites there and because that's
a real portant than Dennis. Yes, thank you, thank you hit that
button and start donating. Ladies,thank you so much for joining us on
community DC. This is a realspecial conversation. I really appreciate both of
(29:30):
your time. Thank you, Mythanks again to doctor Melissa America, Michelle
Booth Cole for their insight today.If you have any guest suggestions for Community
DC, we would love to hearfrom you. Just email your suggestions to
myself, Dennis Glasgow at iHeartMedia dotcom. This show airs every Sunday morning
on the station, and you canalso listen and download every episode on any
(29:52):
of our iHeart DC websites with thekeywords Community DC. Once again, thanks
for listening. I'm this Glasgow.
Good morning and welcome to another editionof Community DC. I'm your host NS
Glasgow. This morning, we hadto talk about a tough topic, but
it needs to be discussed and thatis child abuse. More specifically, it's
prevention. Today I will be joinedby the CEO Prevent Child Abuse, doctor
Melissa Merrick, and Michelle booth Colefrom Safe Shore's PCA DC. We'll be
(00:25):
going over the latest statistics, butmore importantly, how to recognize child abuse
and what next steps would be toreport and prevent whether you're co parenting a
family member, friend or co worker. Here's my conversation with doctor Melissa and
Michelle. Give a listen after today, in the future, you could be
preventing child abuse. Good morning,ladies, Good morning morning. Well doctor
(00:48):
Melissa and Michelle. It is justa thrill to talk to you both,
and we're going to talk a lotabout what you both do in this incredible
partnership that you have. But doctorMelissa, I'd like to ask you first
just about history of provenchild Abuse dotOrg and then we'll get into some context
about how you got there and alsoall the capabilities and strategies and resources and
(01:08):
this amazing partnership that you have withMichelle, and of course Safe Shores,
So why don't we talk about thatfirst, doctor Melissa, just go ahead,
Sure, great, Thank you,Dennis, and hello everyone. Prevent
Child Abuse America is the nation's oldestand largest national nonprofit that's really focused on
preventing child abuse and neglect before itstarts. So that's what we mean when
(01:33):
we say primary prevention. I thinkpeople think about child abuse and neglect and
they think, oh, violence isinevitable, but we actually have proven solutions
for prevention, and for the lastfifty years, Prevent Child Abuse America,
along with our state chapters nationwide,including Safe Shores, which is our Prevent
(01:53):
Child Abuse d C chapter, havebeen working with home Visiting program Healthy Families
America across the country around policy andadvocacy and making sure that we can assure
the conditions for health and well beingand really help parents and support families in
raising children in the healthiest ways possibleso that we can all reach our nation's
(02:15):
health, well being and prosperity goals. So we've been headquartered in Chicago for
the past fifty years. But again, there's a role for all of us
in this work, and we're justso pleased to be in conversation this morning.
Very cool, and Michelle was SafeShores and the DC Children's Advocacy Center.
Did I do my math correctly?Twenty years with this? Twenty years
(02:38):
in June? He smokes Michelle,Well that's a two, or do a
couple of decades. Congratulations, thatis wonderful. We'll tell us about Safe
Shores. Yeah, it's a callingand a privilege to serve and just say
I don't work alone. As Melissaknows, this work happens in partnership.
It's a community issue. Safe Shoresis a children's advocacy center which is a
(03:00):
nationally replicated model, and the modelwas created back in the mid nineteen eighties
to really make sure that when there'san allegation of child abuse and that case
is going to go forward or maynot go forward for prosecution, but the
response is child focused rather than systemsfocus. So rather than have that child
(03:21):
talk to multiple adults. So maybethere's a disclosure that happens at school and
the school would back in the daycall the police, but before then the
child would have told their teacher,the principle, the school counselor, and
then law enforcement would come out andmaybe they would take that child to the
police station in a squad car andhave them sit next to their desk and
tell them in a public place whatit happened to them, and then it
(03:42):
would go on and on and onfrom there. The system back in the
day was not really focused on theneeds of the child. And what the
Child Advocacy center model does is itbrings all those players together, ideally in
one place, the Children's Advocacy Center. So we have law enforcement, child
protective services, prosecutors, utal healthprofessionals, pediatricians all working together to really
(04:03):
prioritize the need of that child inthe context of the investigation. And then
we offer wraparound services as well,so advocacy therapy, whatever that child and
that family may need to get tothe other side of this really traumatic and
pactful, painful experience. And that'swhat a Child Advocacies Center does. And
(04:25):
Safe Shores is the CIAC for theDistrict of Columbia, but there are over
nine hundred Children's Advocacy centers across theUnited States. They are usually connected with
law enforcement entities, and sacs togetherreach about three hundred and sixty five thousand
children annually, so as you canhear for our listeners, there's a lot
(04:46):
of tentacles and capabilities when it comesto all the different things and just layers
that we'll get into a little bitmore in our thirty minute conversation. But
Doctor America, I do want totalk about this partnership that you have going
on. I think it's just amakes a lot of sense, you know,
for lack of a better word,synergy, there's that going on.
But tell us about how the historyand how you got together on this partnership,
(05:10):
because it seems like it's a realnice one. Absolutely, you know
that prevention happens in partnership, likemy colleague Michelle already said, and it's
just so true, right, it'snot up to a single entity or a
single organization to protect children. Weall have a role to play, and
we really take a public health approachto this problem of child abuse and neglect.
And so the definition of public healthis really what we as a society
(05:35):
do collectively to assure the conditions inwhich all people can be healthy. Right,
So, if you think of childabuse and neglect as we do,
as a public health problem, thatmeans there are proven public health solutions in
partnership across sector, across organization,across discipline. Right, there's a role
for teachers, for law enforcement,for therapists, but also for media,
(05:57):
right for listeners, for all ofus and neighbors. So prevent Child Abuse
America fifty years ago we started knowingthat we can't do this work alone,
right, So we really have asystems level approach where we're national and we're
advocating on the hill every day.We have a DC office, of course,
and we do a lot of policyand advocacy in national kinds of partnerships,
(06:19):
but we also have work boots onthe ground. Like Michelle said about
the work that we have going onin DC, we have a nationwide state
chapter network, So the different kindsof work that might be happening in different
communities depends on that particular context.Right. And we also have this evidence
Space home visiting program that's another partnership, right, So Healthy Families America.
(06:42):
We serve over seventy thousand families eachyear. It's basically a program that's in
six hundred sites, including thirty eightstates, the District of Columbia, and
all the five territories. And thisis a program that just helps support families
on the birth or adoption of anew baby before they're in crisis, right
before there's really a need, beforethere's any allegation or any risk of child
(07:06):
abuse and neglect, but helping newparents navigate new parenthood. Right. None
of us does this parenting job alone. And trust me, I have two
children myself and a PhD in childpsychology, but I need support every day
to raise happy, healthy children rightfree from violence and to take the edge
off. And right now, Imean, this is such a unique time
(07:28):
to even be alive in our history, right coming, you know, on
this side of a global health pandemic, a time of really acute racial and
civil unrest, we're really being exposedto the root causes that just add to
the load on our parents, right, And so we all rely on each
other. We all need resources.Yeah, some of us it's concrete supports
(07:53):
and monetary resources, others it's emotionalsupports. But we all are interconnected.
So because of that fact, weall rely on each other for prevention solutions.
So we're just so tremendously positive andhappy and thankful for the partnerships that
we have, like with safe shores, and like with other entities across this
(08:16):
great country. Well, thank youfor sharing all that in the partnership after
explaining it with some context, makesa lot of sense. And speaking of
context, Melissa, and then we'llget to you, Michelle, I think
it should be brought to our attentionbecause I know people brace themselves when they
hear about statistics. But you've gotto talk about that because this is part
of the whole plan about what kindof numbers we're dealing with when it comes
to child abuse or neglects. Sojust overall, domestically in the United States,
(08:41):
what kind of numbers are we lookingat, just in general terms?
Melissa, Yeah, well, I'llsay, you know, our data in
these areas are difficult, right,and are imperfect. They're imperfect in a
normal time. They're certainly imperfect ina time of a global health pandemic where
children are outside of school and outsideof the contact where people you know,
can see early signs and such.But we would say nationwide, we know
(09:03):
that at least one in seven childrenexperience some form of child abuse and neglect.
I will say our systems are mostlyresponding and mostly seeing issues of neglect,
which really is confounded in our countrywith poverty. Right, so we
think about, you know, whatis it that families need right in their
(09:26):
own communities that could be delivered intheir own communities without stigma before families are
in crisis to keep children and familiesthriving. But you're right, it is
a big problem. And you know, will never really sometimes know the great
number and the prevalence because for someinstances of child abuse, like child sexual
(09:46):
abuse, for example, it mayonly be the victim and the perpetrator who
ever know about about that kind ofvictimization. But overwhelmingly I will say that
you neglect is the kind of experiencethat our child protective services systems are mostly
dealing with and are mostly navigating.All right, well, thank you for
(10:07):
sharing that, and Michelle, onceagain we can talk in general terms.
And I don't know if it's thedistrict or if it's the DMV, but
what kind of numbers are we lookingat in our area here? Well,
I can tell you how many childrenSafe Shores serves each year. We serve
roughly twelve hundred children who are mainlyaffected. Most of our clients are affected
(10:28):
by child sexual abuse because those arethe harder crimes to investigate. So that's
one of the reasons that ciac's ChildAdvocacy Centers came about in the first place.
And what we do know about thenumber of children we see is it's
just the tip of the iceberg.Child abuse and child sexual abuse in particular
are underreported crimes. It's hard toprove. But also we're talking about children,
(10:52):
so they have to feel safe totell someone, and then if they
do tell someone, the adult hasto do something. They have to report
it to the police or to childprotective services. So we believe that we're
seeing just the tip of the iceberg. And what we do know in terms
of data around child sexual abuse isthat about one in ten children will be
(11:13):
sexually abused by the time they turneighteen. That's across the United States.
That's a public health crisis, it'sa criminal justice crisis. And when we
think about the long term impact ofabuse that is not addressed, it says
a lot about what could happen inthe future if we don't do the work
(11:37):
now. But y'all, I'm goingto ask some layman questions here and this
is also for our listeners too,that my being experiencing something like this right
now or know about something that's goingon. And I had a chance a
couple of weeks ago to talk tosomebody there in the Family Justice Center of
Montgomery County and it was about couplesabuse, and I learned a lot about
that, about soup to nuts,about how you contact and how you can
(11:58):
stay safe and all those things.And I imagine there are a lot similarities
when it comes to that. Butwhen somebody see something or they know that
something's going on, but there's fearfulof calling and reaching out, what kind
of alternatives do they have and whatis your relationship also with law enforcement when
it comes to these very nicey situationswhere somebody would like to report something,
but they're fearful for themselves and alsothe people that are involved. Yeah,
(12:22):
so when it comes to children,we really ask adults to do something,
to say something, to report,because children cannot protect themselves. And the
thing about reporting is, you know, when you report, you only have
to have a reasonable suspicion of abuse. You don't have to have all the
information, you don't have to haveall the facts, but you need to
(12:45):
be able to articulate who that childis, where it's happening, what you've
seen. But there's really, youknow, no alternative to reporting. No,
that's the thing. We have tobring these issues to people's attention and
to the attention of systems that canstep in and protect children. So we
do encourage people if you see something, say something, and report. So
(13:09):
they're different levels of intervention. ButMelissa, I see you want to get
into that, so say more.Yeah, I just want to underscore what
you said there, Michelle. Itis an adult's responsibility to protect children.
It's our societal responsibility to keep kidssafe. And the data are clear that
all children are like my children aresafer if all of our children are safer,
(13:31):
and so this narrative shift from blamingand shaming parents right for child abuse
to instead we all have a roleto play in keeping children safe and thriving.
It's exactly what's needed in this area. Like Michelle said, if you
see something, you say something,and we all can be working to try
(13:54):
to keep children and families safe andsupported before they find themselves in crisis.
Exactly right. That makes a lotof sense. And Melissa's I was going
over both you and Michelle's websites whenit comes to prevent childerbees dot org and
also unsafe shores. I was obviouslygetting educated because there's a lot to digest
in this area. And I'm curiousbecause it's been brought up a few times
(14:16):
by myself and also by you.As far as law enforcement, I imagine
that there's always something developing when itcomes to law enforcement and how they treat
these situations, how they're contacted,how they address it. They have people
on staff also probably similar to whatyou know you do as far as you
know the mental aspect of this,because I think about just the mental wellness
(14:37):
in these situations, not to mentionthe physical stuff is really complex. With
that said, when it comes tolaw enforcement, how much do you stay
in contact with the education Michelle whenit comes to just working with law enforcement
in general. Yeah, that's agreat question, and that's the beauty of
the Child out of Beocacy Center model. We work in partnership with law enforcement
(14:58):
because these cases are reported either tochild protective services or to law enforcement.
So in the District of Columbia,there's a specific division of the Metropolitan Police
Department, the Youth Division, andwe not only work with them what we
provide training, We provide psychosocial education. The role of the CIAC is to
(15:20):
help all these partners work together,and one of the key ways we do
that is by keeping them abreast ofissues in child development. Things that we
learn about brain development, like nowpeople are talking about it so much more,
but the brain doesn't stop developing untilpeople are twenty six twenty seven years
old. So the implications of thatfor children, for working with children are
(15:41):
huge. Understanding that teenagers, whilethey may look grown and they may try
to talk groan, at the endof the day, their brains are not
fully developed right, and so theyhave to be treated and protected as in
that in between stage, but protectedas though their children. So we work
with law for law enforcement to provideeducation to help them do their work and
(16:03):
also to help them hear children's voices. That is one of the key aspects
of the CIAC. We have peoplewho are specifically trained as forensic interviewers to
talk to child victims about their victimization, so that law enforcement doesn't have to
do that because they're often not trainedto talk to children about traumatic events.
(16:25):
So in the model, you havea forensic interviewer and that's all they do
all day long, is to talkto children about trauma and then in an
adjacent room in real time on closedcircuit television, law enforcement is watching that
forensic interview so they can get theinformation they need. And yet all at
the same time, we're holding thatchild's needs, their mental health needs,
(16:48):
their physical needs, their safety,their well being at the center of the
process. We have to remember thatchildren are little humans, right, They
are little people who need our protection. They don't know how to navigate these
things. They don't know often thatthe abuse is abuse because the perpetrator has
led them to believe that that's whatpeople do. Right. So this is
(17:12):
why caring, responsible adults have tobe on the front line of protecting children.
And something Michelle said there, youknow, it just gives me an
entree. You can't say brain developmentwithout me chiming in here in Michelle,
But you know, I think wehave a tagline at Prevent Child Abuse America.
It says because childhood lasts a lifetime, And that sounds great and it
(17:33):
gets you know, people hooked toour mission. But it's true to the
science. Things that happen today inchildren's lives stay with them across the lifespan
and across generations. And that's thegood things that happen and the bad things.
Right, So when we're talking aboutprevention, then we want to boost
these safe, stable, nurturing relationshipsand environments that are in child children's lives
(17:59):
that will set their their cascade andtheir trajectory toward health and well being and
prosperity. Because we know that thingsthat happen now affect not just how the
brain develops, but also how ourimmune systems function, how our endocrine systems
function, even the way our genesexpress themselves are based on things that happen
(18:21):
in childhood. So you know,leading causes of death like herdiovascular disease,
leading chronic diseases like diabetes, obesity, all of these things have roots to
early adversity. Right. We knowthat kids that have aces adverse childhood experiences
like child abuse, like neglect,like growing up in a home with parental
(18:41):
substance use or parental incarceration, thesekinds of adversities actually increase your risk for
later health and well being issues later, you know, job productivity losses,
earlier death. Right, So wejust have this opportunity in per to change
those trajectories and to break those cyclesof violence. So it's just really really
(19:06):
critical, critical work. Yeah,Melissa definitely was touching on the adverse childhood
Experiences research, which dates back tonineteen ninety eight. I think the other
thing to mention here is that wehave to remember child abuse doesn't just happen
to people over there. This isan issue that cuts across class, it
cuts across race, it cuts acrosssocioeconomic spectrum. This happens everywhere. All
(19:33):
children can be at risk for childabuse, and that's another reason we need
really comprehensive systems that adults participate into protect children. And one of the
ways that Safe Shortz puts that outthere is through training training adults, parents,
caregivers, teachers, coaches, anybodywho works with kids, faith institutions,
(19:53):
volunteers. Right, there's a wonderfultraining designed for adults to teach them
how how to identify, respond to, and prevent child sexual abuse. It's
called Stewards of Children. Safe Shoreshas been offering this training to the public
since two thousand and seven. It'screated by an organization called Darkness to Light.
(20:15):
It is a phenomenal training that helpsadults deal with this issue, but
also creates language and also creates aconnect the dots kind of approach, because
often adults will have a little pieceof information, like teachers in a school,
they may observe something in another teacheror somebody else who works there,
and they don't think they have enoughinformation to report. But if you create
(20:37):
a culture where adults are talking toeach other about keeping children safe, about
what it takes to create an environmentwhere adults are taking responsibility, we can
shift the tide and create this huge, loving, caring, safety, protective
kind of environment that all kids needto be in because we want everybody to
(20:59):
grow healthy. Right, that's theworld we live in. Violence, all
the things that we're seeing, likea lot of this comes from unresolved childhood
trauma, and we know we canintervene, and so that's what we're talking
about. That's what this prevention ofwork is about. All right, well,
thank you for sharing all that.I do have an overall question once
again, layman, question about thisthat I imagine with the advent of education,
(21:25):
the internet, just learning in general, getting statistics together and having people
more on board that when it comesto reporting it's at least swiftly taken.
I want to put this property sopeople don't misunderstand my question about how somebody
can report something and then it'd beaddressed and taken care of, as opposed
(21:47):
to maybe twenty years ago, wehad no internet, we had no social
media. There's probably no education forparents or family member to report this.
But now as you talk about thiseducation and we've got the Internet and you've
got all these social programs that educatepeople about reporting it, is it easier
now for people to report child neglectand abuse or is it even much harder
(22:11):
because of all the things that wehave around us when it comes to social
media, the Internet, and stillbeing fearful of reporting something that people might
find really awkward. But you know, I'm just I'm trying to put myself
and somebody shooes it. If Isaw child neglect or abuse. I think
I know why I would do inthis situation, but I'm just not certain
depending on who the person is.So maybe you can address that, Michelle.
(22:33):
Yeah, it's an interesting question,Dennis, and that's why it's so
important that you are addressing this andhaving us on your show to day to
raise awareness about this. I'm notsure whether it's easier, because you know,
human behavior, it takes a lotto change human behavior. It takes
decades. Think about smoking campaigns,think about seatbelt campaigns, think about what
(22:53):
that took. And frankly, businesswas involved, industry was involved, corporations
were involved, the government was involved. All these parties had to create a
behavioral shift for people to start doingwhat was going to keep them safe and
keep them alive. Right, andso in some ways, yes, there
are systems that are built to beresponsive. That's why cacs exist. But
(23:17):
yet I think there's still a challenge. People find this issue very difficult to
deal with. People turn away,they don't want to address it. They
don't want to think it could happenwith somebody that they know. Oh that
person is this person in society,that person holds this status. I mean
in the DMV, we just hada case where the mayor of College Park
(23:37):
was found with child pornography. There'sand now indictments on multiple charges. So
what we need to realize is thatno one can be above suspicion. If
we live in a world where ourfirst commitment is to keeping kids safe,
and we're putting things in place thatare practiced universally. So don't get insulted
because this rule is in place.This rule applies to every body. This
(24:00):
is what we do at this school, this is what we do at this
camp. These are the things thatwe put in place to keep children safe.
So is it easier to report?They're definitely hotlines there, they're definite
people at they're ready to take thosereports. But we still have to overcome
this seeming reluctance discomfort. Right.I think the main thing is believe children.
(24:23):
Believe children, right, they asa rule of researchers, they don't
make these things up. I thinkthey're a free pretty simple that you say
that blue kids, blue children,Ye children. I agree, believe children
and recognize that violence is not inevitable, right, It's like we have prevention
(24:47):
solutions. So I would say,I don't think it's easier Dennis, because
there is still this like, ohthat's happening over there. I don't want
to get in their business, youknow, I wouldn't want someone to do,
you know, this kind of thing, as opposed to a culture of
supporting one another and wanting the bestfor one another and really recognizing that if
I can take some of your loadoff, I'm happy to do that.
(25:07):
Right. And I think this goesback to relationships that make the world go
round, right. It was reallyit's critical as a new mom, a
working mom. I could call somebody, it'd be like, oh my gosh,
can you pick up lilianez Or I'mgoing to be late and the preschool
is going to be charging me adollar every minute. And you know,
but having that community, well,what if I don't have that community?
(25:27):
Right? What if I don't haveaffordable childcare? What if I don't have
stable housing, What if I don'thave transportation to take my children to all
of their appointments and such? Whatif I don't have paid leave and I'm
not sure how I can take timeoff to get the services and supports that
my family needs. So it alsopoints to we know some of the stressors
(25:49):
and some of the risk factors thatmake violence in homes more likely, So
how do we get to those factors? Right? And to me, that's
where there's a real policy and addI could see role right, how do
we get paid leave, livable wage, you know, economics, supports for
families, child's care, healthcare,you know all of these things that actually
(26:11):
a child needs in their ecosystem.Right, how do we develop a comprehensive
prevention ecosystem. The way we dothat is by supporting one another and recognizing
that we all have a role toplay. Well, that's really well said
by both of you, and Ithink the one takeaway that I do get
and I do know for a fact, over the last twenty years, we
have better resources, and that's kindof what both of you been talking about.
(26:33):
We only have about maybe two anda half to three minutes left,
so why don't we do this?So Michelle, why don't we start with
you just maybe some final thoughts Andby the way, we're going to visit
with you two again because we've justhad the tip of the iceberg and it's
such an exhilarating conversation, educational.I'm learning a lot with our listeners here
about Michelle. Maybe just for theDMV to some final thoughts from you.
(26:55):
Yeah. So, I think it'simportant, like Melissa said, to remember
we are all acted. Human beingsare all connected, and we're not meant
to be disconnected. The pandemic hasshown us that people need one another,
and we have to build a worldwhere parents and caregivers have support, where
people aren't trying to do one ofthe hardest jobs on the planet, which
(27:17):
is parenting in isolation without the supportthey need, without the food they need,
the housing they need, that qualityeducation, they need all those things.
That's what creates our society, right, So we have to invest in
it. Right. And so yousaid there's a lot more resources. Let
me just say child abuse and chaudabuse prevention is chronically underfunded. These are
(27:40):
things that people need to invest in. We just can't rely on individual donors
and foundations. We need businesses andgovernments and all these places with resources.
To realize that we all have arole to play. There's something that each
of us can do. Yeah,Michelle, I'm going to come back to
you in just a sec and foryour website, but doctor Merrik does some
(28:02):
final thoughts from you. We gotabout a minute left. Yeah, Well,
April is child abuse prevention months,so it's the perfect time to raise
awareness not just of the problem ofchild abuse neglect, butt of the prevention
solutions. And I will just sayclearly I echo everything that Michelle said,
but we know that prevention is possible, and we know based on science that
(28:23):
children are safer with their families thanfrom their families when their families have the
supports that they need to parent effectivelyand positively. Right, we all have
a role to play in keeping kidssafe and thriving. All right, Doctor
Mark, how about you your websiteplease sure where Prevent child Abuse dot org?
(28:45):
All right? And Michelle yours atsafe Shore's safe sh o r ees
dot org. Outstanding. I'm glad, really glad that we've had this conversation
and both of you, ladies andyour teams are in this world because we
need you, and I just thinkit's real special of what you and your
teams are doing. And I dowant to revisit and catch up with both
(29:06):
of you again and talk a littlebit more because, as I mentioned,
and I know you both know this, we're just hitting the tip of the
iceberg of all the capabilities and theresources and strategies and partnerships. And don't
forget donate buttons on their two folkson both the websites there and because that's
a real portant than Dennis. Yes, thank you, thank you hit that
button and start donating. Ladies,thank you so much for joining us on
community DC. This is a realspecial conversation. I really appreciate both of
(29:30):
your time. Thank you, Mythanks again to doctor Melissa America, Michelle
Booth Cole for their insight today.If you have any guest suggestions for Community
DC, we would love to hearfrom you. Just email your suggestions to
myself, Dennis Glasgow at iHeartMedia dotcom. This show airs every Sunday morning
on the station, and you canalso listen and download every episode on any
(29:52):
of our iHeart DC websites with thekeywords Community DC. Once again, thanks
for listening. I'm this Glasgow.
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