Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Okay, cats up thing, little food for yourself life.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh it's pretty bad. Hey, it's pretty beautiful, beautiful laughs.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
A little more.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Family's exciting, said he can cut your kicking with four
Thing with Amy Brown, Happy Thursday, four Things, vam Amy here.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Throw a question out there for y'all because I went
to the write story workshop that Ali fallon and Donald
Miller put on and a few listeners were there. There
was probably about forty people total, and this room was
full of laughter, joy, courage, strength.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I saw it all.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
But then as people's stories started to come out, you realized, Wow,
there's some unimaginable stories here, and people are carrying these
heavy burdens and I just wasn't in awe of them
and the journey that they've been on. And so my
question for you is, are you going through something hard
(01:15):
right now? Like are you feeling confused by it all?
Like you've just been thrown out into the middle of
the ocean all alone, wondering if you're ever going to
find your way back to shore? Because I did some
processing this weekend, and that's what it has felt like
for me the last couple of years. I have had
to call in the Coastguard. And that's what I've been
doing with all the work and the therapy and all
(01:36):
the things like those were my people that came to
me in the middle of the ocean and have been
slowly helping me find my way back. And this podcast
is a community that is here for each other. And
meeting listeners of the podcast at the Writerr Story Workshop
helped show me that that we're together in this We're
(01:58):
not alone. I again specially feel this when I get
to meet all face to face and when I read
your emails that you send in. So today's episode is
from our community. All things are emails from listeners that
are currently in hard times or have made.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It to the other side.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So yeah, these are stories from someone just like you
that listens to this podcast, and I just know that
it will be an encouragement to all of you in
some way, shape or form. But before I get into
the emails, I want to share something from Annie f Downs.
She's a friend of the podcast. She's come on multiple
times and she put up a sermon. I don't even
(02:35):
know when it's from, but I only recently heard it,
so it might be old, but she was talking about
how feelings should ride, not drive. And she was making
the point that when we are grieving or going through
something hard, that we can allow our grief to ride
alongside our joy.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So just because we are.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Grieving doesn't mean that there isn't any room for joy.
And just because we are joyful doesn't mean that all
of our grief is gone. I can ride side by side,
and I just love that so much because that's what
I was feeling in that room, those forty people, some
of those stories that I was hearing, some of the
stories I hear from you when I think about my
own life and things, riding side by side.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I just love it so much.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Feeling should ride not drive. And it's when we put
them in the driver's seat that they get control of
the whole situation. And we really need them to ride
side by side. So thank you Annie f Downs for that.
And now we'll get into the emails, right We're starting
off with an email that's gonna offer hope, because I
(03:40):
feel like that's a good place to start. It is
from Collette and here's what she had to say. Amy,
thank you for the fabulous interview with Jen Hatmaker. This
episode really spoke to me in twenty sixteen, my children
went off to college, and after twenty five years of marriage,
I got divorced. Like Jen, I fell into the depths
of the ocean. It was so dark I couldn't tell
which way led to the surface. I had to sell
(04:03):
my home and move. I remember lying on the floor
with half packed boxes, sobbing. I didn't have any friends.
I was completely alone. It was the darkest time in
my life. It took me three years to grieve. In
this time, I rediscovered who I was. I am so
happy I went through all of that darkness. I packed
a house and drove a large U haul all by myself.
(04:23):
I learned how strong and capable I am in my healing.
I took a dance class. I remembered how I loved
to dance. I discovered I loved to travel. I made
friends and grew closer to my children. I am enjoying
the sunshine and the woman I am today. I thank
God for helping me along the dark path and for
leading me to the new path that I am on.
He was my lighthouse, Jin is now a lighthouse for
(04:46):
others going through a divorce. I hope anyone going through
a dark time knows that better days are ahead and
to look for the lighthouses around them. Let your light
shine so others can see their way out of the dark.
Timber Hawkeye friend Collette. So, Collette, thank you so much
for sharing this email. And like I said, this first note,
(05:07):
this first story is to be of encouragement that Collette
was out in the ocean. She said she was in
the depths of the ocean. It was so dark she
couldn't tell which way led to the surface, but she
eventually found her way out. And I love that she's
encouraging us to look for the lighthouses. Thanks for sharing
(05:29):
your story, Collette. This next story note email, I feel
like this is definitely a story because it shares so
much and I am so thankful for all that Kristin
put in here. And I replied back to her and said,
are you sure if I share all of this with everybody?
And she replied back, I am okay with you reading
as much or as little that you think is helpful
(05:50):
on the podcast, and you can use my name, no
problem with that. So thank you Kristin for sharing this story.
And I'm just going to go ahead and get into
the note she sent me. Now, Hey, Amy, longtime listener
(06:12):
to both The Bobby Bone Show and the Four Things podcast,
and second time writer into the show. The first time
my messaged you was back in May twenty twenty, after
my mom passed away from cancer. My story was mentioned
on your podcast with Robin Roberts about making your mess
your message.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Through therapy and.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Podcasts like yours, I was able to learn from others.
My grief made me a stronger person, and I'm now
helping others going through similar stories. Fast forward two years
later and I'm back in therapy. Why you may ask,
I have an eating disorder? My story started similar to many,
adding in a little more exercise here, a little more
(06:49):
clean eating there, less and less rest days, avoiding desserts.
That simple phrase, I have an eating disorder is something
that I've skirted around for eight years. I may have
issues with food, but I eat three meals per day
and even snacks.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I don't binge r purge.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I'm praised for my diligent exercise habits and clean eating.
In the past few years, with the help of Outweigh
and just more information generally, I've started to acknowledge my
disordered eating habits. Even working with dietitians here and there.
Up until this week, though, I had not fully acknowledged
that I have an eating disorder. What happened to change this? Well,
(07:24):
here we go, and sorry in advance for rambling. I
am a runner. I love running. It's my daily therapy.
This passion can be a dangerous habit, especially when you're
not fueling enough, especially when you consistently cut out carbs
from your meals. It can be a dangerous habit when
you start strength training, but in reality you add on
a thirty minute strength to workout to your already hour
(07:46):
long run. In addition to the focus on exercise, my
brain is constantly thinking about what I'm going to eat
and win. If it's not ten am, no snack, even
if I'm lightheaded standing up. Everything I eat is perfectly
tracked in my calorie counter that was downloaded on my
phone in twenty ten, and I probably haven't missed a day.
Do I eat more for the amount of activity. Absolutely not.
(08:09):
Most of my meals are carb free. I mean, who
doesn't love a good salad zucchini noodle, spaghetti squash contraption.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's healthy. Go me.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Knowing I needed to feel better, I started working with
a sports dietitian. Like I mentioned, I'd met with several
dietitians in the past, all of whom told me eat more.
Thank you, Captain obvious. However, you know they were just
doing their job and didn't know all the background noise
happening in my head. No one really knew about the
background noise. My sisters and a few friends knew that
(08:37):
I was struggling a little bit, but no one knew
the constant thoughts of exercise and food, yes, even marathon training.
I was worried about eating too much. Back to my dietitian,
she is amazing. Literally had me starting with adding three
dried apricots to my morning snack.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Then I'd add something else.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
She would phrase it like, you need this food to
fuel this activity or recover from this run. She asked
about adding in carbs to my dinners, and I laughed
a bit. I had spent eight years adapting recipes to
omit the carbs, but I followed her advice and slowly
started adding in things. Plus, I was running fifty to
sixty miles a week, I probably no definitely needed carbs.
(09:18):
My training for this marathon was going perfectly. I was
fueling better than I ever had been, which was still
very underfueled.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Here's a shocker.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
When I started eating more carbs, my runs felt less
hard and I recovered better. I was following my training
plan perfectly. Things were going great until two weeks before
my marathon, Day one of my taper, I had finished
all of the long runs. I felt a weird pain
in my left leg. A few hours later, I couldn't
even walk. A few doctors visits and an MRI later,
(09:47):
I have the injury. Runners fear the stress fracture. I
met with the sports medicine doctor, who was also a
good friend of mine. We go over what the next
few weeks will look like. No running, no marathon. Yes,
you can cross train, He asked Kristin, when was your
last period? I just stare at him. It's been seven years.
He nods and asks me if I'm still working with
(10:08):
my dietitian and if I have a therapist. Disclaimer, I
work in healthcare. I'm a pediatrician. I work with athletes
who have stress fractures, who lose their periods. I know
why it's harmful. I give them fantastic advice about balance
and fueling your body. Have I listened to any of
this advice. Insert laughing emoji here. Fast forward to therapy.
(10:31):
We talk for our hour, catching up from the last
time I saw her, the sadness about my injury, how
I can't run for eight weeks, the sadness I feel
At the end, she says, Kristin, what do you want
to do? Do you want help? Try this on your own?
I asked her what she thought.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
She thought I needed help.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I agreed, She said, I don't specialize in eating disorders,
but here are a few names. I stared at her me.
I don't have an eating disorder. I just have food issues,
and I run a lot. Does everyone who runs a
lot have an eating disorder? Absolutely not? Does everyone who
eats healthy have an eating disorder? Absolutely not. Does someone
(11:09):
who hasn't taken a full day off of exercise in
almost a year have an eating disorder despite injuries, illness, vacations.
Maybe probably I do eat. I love food. I love cooking,
meal prepping, fueling my body. I love to indulge in
ice cream scones, wine on occasion, but those things always
fit into my nice neat box of so many calories
(11:30):
per day. I also love movement from running to biking,
to hiking to tennis. But there's a balance. I can't
go on vacation without planning when and how I'm going
to work out. If I visit my sisters for a weekend,
I am thinking of what time I'll be home so
that I can get my workout in. I have all
the bad habits that you've mentioned before, weighing myself daily,
counting calories. But two days ago I deleted my calorie counter.
(11:54):
I think about redownloading it several times a day, and
I still know just about what I'm putting in my body. Hey,
at least that's a step. I start eating disorder therapy
next week. I'm terrified. I'm a perfectionist, a people pleaser,
a type triple A personality. I always have a plan
with this. I literally now have no plan. I question
(12:15):
constantly if I can do this, but I know I can.
How so many others have you many of the people
you've had on your podcast. The list goes on. Recovery
is not linear, which will be the hardest thing for me.
But after eight years of disordered eating, I'm ready for
my brain space and my life back. I am ready
to go on vacation and move if I want, but
(12:36):
not to have to plan my day around it. I
will continue running whenever I'm cleared to start doing so,
I'll continue moving. I'll continue to prioritize health. But I'm
so very ready to not have constant thoughts about food
and exercise. I'm ready to enjoy time with friends and family.
Most importantly, I'm ready to have me back in my period.
(12:57):
I guess that's a good thing too. I want to
say thanks for the Outweigh podcast and four things for
telling your story, for being transparent that recovery is not linear,
similar to when I worked through losing my mom, I
will work through this and then help others help other
runners go through the same thing. There's a book I
ordered called Running in Silence. This strive for perfection and
(13:19):
using eating as the control is not uncommon. Four things
I'm grateful for the support system I have in my life,
my sister and my friends, my dietician, my therapist Sunshine.
It's a beautiful seventy degree day which never happens in
October in Wisconsin. Coffee, and the fact that once Halloween
is over, I'll find it acceptable to start watching Christmas movies.
(13:41):
Your friend Kristin from Madison, Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
PS. I saw a pretty woman on Broadway this weekend.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
You would love it, Ah, Kristin, that was quite the story.
And you are entering into a really exciting time in
your life, and I know that you're scared, but you're here.
You've got your coastguard, you've got your life rafts, you're
building your team, and you're gonna get to shore. Like
(14:09):
You're just going to get there and you will get
yourself back. You'll get to know yourself in a way
you never knew. And sometimes I still find myself on
that journey in regards to other things. I do feel
secure in my eating disorder recovery, but some things just
never leave you and you have to remind yourself of that.
But you'll get all the tools that you need, and
(14:30):
you're at the beginning of a beautiful thing. Like I
can see so much awesomeness ahead for your life and
the brain space you're going to get back, and the
vacations you're going to get to enjoy with your friends
and family, girls' nights out, like all the different things
that you're going to get to do where your brain
isn't constantly thinking about how many calories are in the food,
(14:51):
and I feel you. I remember the day that Lisa,
Lisa Ham, who co founded Outweigh with me and she
has a whole program for eating, a sort of recovery
called fork the Noise because it's the noise in your head.
She told me, Amy, you have to delete the calorie
counting app, get rid of it. And I thought, no,
I'm in recovery.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I just like to know what I'm putting in my body.
But really I was clinging onto that last final thing
and that of that control and that knowing, and it
was so painful. I remember not being able to sleep
the first night, and I would text Lisa and I'd say,
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I can't stop thinking about how I.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Wasn't able to enter in that I had this food
that probably had an eighth of an egg, and I
can't calculate how many calories are in the eighth of
an egg without the app. So just know, you know
the theme of this episode here is you are not alone,
and it seems like you were out in the ocean,
but you were finding your way back to shore, and
(15:47):
you've got your life rafts and you've got your gratitude.
Thank you for sharing four things that you're thankful for.
Your support system was one of them. Your sister's, your friend,
your dietician, your therapist. Those are your life wraps and
you've got them, so use them and know that it's
not going to be totally easy. Every day will not
(16:07):
be it's going to be challenging. But one day, just
like I feel i've felt like out in the ocean
and certain things, I'm back at shore. Other things I'm
still I'm still in the middle of the ocean. But
one day you're going to reach the sand and you're
going to put your feet and feel it, and you're
gonna be like, oh, I'm here, I made it.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I did this, so you can do it.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I know you can do hard things, especially if you've
trained for a marathon, because a marathon is seventy five
percent mental. And I know that because I've done one.
And you know I did it for all the wrong
reasons too. I did it in college, and I thought
I would have told everybody at the time, Yeah, I'm
just doing it because I want to run a marathon
and I love to run. Fact is, I wanted to
do it to lose weight and that didn't work. I
ended up gaining weight. That's a whole nother story for
(16:49):
a whole nother day. But you are mentally tough. I
know it, and I can't wait to hear an update
from you soon. Thanks again, Kristen for sharing your story
with us. Next note is from Sarah. Hey Amy, I'm
(17:19):
in the midst of a difficult season. We've been dealing
with numerous medical issues in my family. Invasive surgery for
my husband, multiple viruses and illnesses for my oldest, including
being home with a fever, several trips to the er,
and a week in the PICU for my newborn. Yes,
I did just have a baby too, all in less
than three months. This is what we've been dealing with.
(17:39):
All of this also led to an incredible amount of stress, sleeplessness,
and anxiety. Everyone is or is going to be okay.
Very thankful, and we have amazing insurance and we're in
a place that we aren't financially burdened by all of this. Again,
very thankful, And we live in an area with incredible
medical facilities and specialists, so we're receiving amazing care. Grateful
(18:02):
and I know I'm beyond blessed to have a husband
and these tiny humans to love and care for. However,
I'm tired, frustrated, and defeated. I've made it a point
to look for things to be grateful for, and it
has helped me keep life in perspective. But I'm tired
of doctors and insurance and hospitals and coughs in medicine.
I'm just hurting. It feels like we'll be in the
(18:24):
season of illness and stress forever. I know you like
to say just keep swimming when things are hard, but
I'd love to hear your perspectives on remaining grateful when
you're tired. Also, how do you balance acknowledging your struggles
but not wallowing in them. Things I'm thankful for today, work, besties,
walks with my dog, flannel shirts, and coffee. I'm always
(18:47):
thankful for coffee. Your friend, Sarah. Okay, Sarah, I want
to refer back to what I shared from Annie f
Downs in the little intro, and that is all about
this stuff can ride side by side. You have some
heaviness going on right now, but you can also have
gratitude and joy and be thankful for things. And I
(19:10):
don't know how hard it was for you to come
up with the four things you were thankful for. There
your work, besties, your dog, your flannel shirts, and your coffee.
But maybe some days you come up with just one.
And also, I want to eliminate the word forever here
you said, I feel like we'll be in the season
of illness and stress forever. And I know what that
(19:31):
feels like. It is definitely a word I participated in.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Like I've used it. But we don't need to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I think we need to eliminate words like that because
that will keep us in the discomfort longer than is necessary.
But you're allowed to feel some really big feelings right
now because you have a lot of really big things
going on. And like Kat likes to say, there are
days where you're going to have the day that you
need to have and it might be one of those
days where you're tired and fresh and defeated.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Okay, have that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
We don't want to get stuck there, So what are
some things that you can do to get unstuck? And
there is a Chinese proverb it is it is better
to light a candle than to curse the darkness. And
I feel like if you just you know, get mad
at all these different things that are happening to you.
You'll get stuck in that darkness and you'll just be
You're on that hamster wheel and it's spinning and you're
(20:24):
not going anywhere. But what are some little candles that
you can light along the way? And for me, some
of the candles I see is like light a candle
to eliminate the word forever, because this is a season.
It will not last forever. I speak from experience on
that in multiple areas, from you know, dealing with terminally
(20:45):
ill parents to adopted children and other very personal things
that are going on in my life right.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Now, and I know that they are not going to
last forever.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So we're going to light that candle to eliminate a
word like that, And we're going to light a little
candle with the gratitude that you're already doing. And you
have so much to be thankful for with your insurance
and the medical care that you have, So maybe if
you're really struggling for things, just concentrate on that, because
some people do not have access to that type of
(21:20):
care at all.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Whatsoever?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Are there times where you can sneak away and put
yourself first, can you light a little candle by taking
a walk? I know, with a husband that had surgery
and a newborn, that might seem completely impossible, So ignore
this one if that cannot happen. But hopefully you have
maybe some of those work besties that you could call
upon to say, hey, would you be able to help
(21:44):
me out tonight? Or you maybe have other family members
or friends that could help you do get walks with
your dog I see here, So maybe use that time
when you're with your dog to do some breathing exercise
and knock out two birds with one stone on something
like that. And just know that this difficult season is
going to grow you and stretch you in ways that
you didn't even know were possible, and you will heal
(22:07):
from it as long as you want to put in
the work to do so. And you're going to evolve,
and you're going to come out on the other side
of stronger, better person, and you're going to be able
to be there for others that might be going through
something super similar one day. And then also sometimes like
how can you shift the perspective onto someone else like
(22:27):
you did mention? You have your tiny humans to love
on and care for, make sure you're doing your best
to take care of yourself for them, but then think
of ways that you can serve them and be there
for them, and maybe particularly step up and do something
special for your kiddos when you're having one of those
really dark dark days. A little candle you can light
is try to create a special moment with your kids
(22:49):
or do something that would be awesome for them, and
it kind of can take it off of that, you
know what I mean. Okay, I hope that helps, And
I'm so sorry you're going through all of this, Sarah,
but thank you for sharing this with our community, and
I want you to know that you are not alone.
And the just keep swimming comment, I want to reference
that real quick because I feel like when we say
(23:11):
that in the fifth thing, like just keep swimming, it's
almost like we're just saying it kind of jokingly because
some days it just feels impossible to swim. And I
love that we keep talking about water and the ocean
and being out at sea and then the depths of
it and just thrown out with no way back to shore,
and that swim you might I'm not talking like, you know,
(23:34):
start performing like Michael Phelps or anything I'm just talking about,
maybe even like one little baby stroke to the direction
towards shore. You know, it just is a funny thing
for us to say, is to quote, you know, a
fish from a movie. Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming,
as sort of a way of just laughing about it too, like, hey,
we're out here, what are we going to do? But again,
(23:55):
hugs to you and I hope that things get better
real soon. Thanks for everyone that shared emails for this episode,
and y'all continue to email me four Things with Amy
Brown at gmail dot com. Y'all are an amazing community
full of people and I love to see it th