#429 - Before They Made It Big with Chris Stapleton, Dierks Bentley, Jon Pardi, Walker Hayes + More! - Bobbycast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey guys, welcome to a special episode of The Bobbycast.
This is before they made it big. I love these
kinds of episodes. It was super cool to compile all
of this because over the years, I've sat down with
artists who are massive stars now, but once upon a time,
they were just normal people trying to figure out live
whether going to college or starting a family, or playing

(00:27):
in a band in their hometown. And I've talked to
most of them six seven, eight years ago and an
inside look at what they were doing before they moved
to Nashville, what made them pull the trigger to actually
move to Nashville, because again, that's a big decision, and
then the very beginning of their careers. It's fun to
listen to them talk about life years ago, the mindset
they had then. Some of these interviews are from years ago,
and some of them talking about back before they made it.

(00:50):
On this episode, you're gonna hear some great stories they're
in the archives of the Bobbycast. From Thomas Rhet, Dirk Spentley,
Jacob and Chris Staple, Timbrett Eldridge, John Party, Cole Swindell,
and Walker Hayes. Let's kick off the special with Chris
Stapleton talking about his days of playing football in high
school and coming to Nashville, and originally it was just
to be a songwriter. The like to look at the
pictures of the shows. It's been so crazy to watch

(01:13):
the growth. There's been two artists that I've seen grow
like the like I've watched this grow, this.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Part of you, this.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Chapter of Chris Stapleton, you and Sam and you're not
the same, but it's like nobody kind of came out
of nowhere, completely organic, and it's been boom songwriting first,
like paying dudes writing songs for people, like that's why,

(01:45):
Like that way you moved, you moved down to write
song a songwriter.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I thought that was that sounded like the greatest job
I've ever heard of, and I heard of even.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Though singing like you did you want to like, I
can go be an artist. So let's be honest.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
You know, sitting in a room playing a guitar for
maybe three hours a day and getting paid to do
that is probably still the greatest job in the world.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Would you rather sit in a room and write a
great song with one of your songwriter buddies or play
on stage for fifty thousand people.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
I like to play, so that that's hard to say.
But I like to write a good song too. But
you know, at this point, I probably have to pick
playing because I like playing. I like playing a whole lot.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Do you ever get to where I'm getting kind of
tired of playing? I just kind of want to write
songs for a few months.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
No, No, I mean certainly, if you're if you're not
feeling one hundred percent, if you're sick, you know, there's
times I'm sure you get out there, not sleeping and
working nine days a week where you're just like, you know,
I wish I could just, you know, chill out just
a minute. But the fear will keep you going.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
The fear. That's why I have fear.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I'm terrified that I feel like, and I don't know
if you feel this way, because I'm obviously nuts, but
I feel like I've been committing crimes for a long time,
and eventually the cops are gonna catch me, and when
they do, my career is over because they're if they've
got me, or everyone's going to figure out that I'm
not even some imposter syndrome, you.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Feel like, absolutely, I think I think a lot of
people feel that. Not a lot of people will verbalize it,
you know. But I had somebody that uh and I
won't say his name, but uh, you know it was.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
A hero of mine. You have that very thing.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
He's like, I'm just waiting for everybody to figure you know,
figured out, and I'm just like, I was just like,
even you feel that way.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I was like, okay, all right, do you feel that way? Oh?

Speaker 3 (03:29):
Sure, everybody you know to some degree, nobody you know.
But then you know the flip side of the corner.
I used to say to people when even when you
walking to meet somebody, hey you doing man, and be like, oh,
I'm far better than I deserve.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
I used to say that the people.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
And then I had I met somebody and then and
they were walking up on the bus and there was
another artist and he said, uh, he said, well me too,
But do you know, maybe we all deserve great things?
And it really made me. It took me back for
a minute, and I was just like, wow, that's uh okay,
maybe we did, and maybe that makes it okay, you know,
like maybe that can make the fear go away a

(04:04):
little bit if you if you just think that we
all probably deserve great things. You know, not all of
us get it, but I think everybody certainly deserves it.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Do you get in your own head a lot?

Speaker 4 (04:15):
You feel like.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
I can in a moment, And yeah, I get in
my own head quite a bit. That's probably why I
don't talk that much.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
What's your fear getting in your own head of talking?
H Like, what's the worst that could happen in your mind?

Speaker 2 (04:33):
What you say?

Speaker 1 (04:34):
You know, I don't want to get in my own head,
So that's why I don't.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
I might get in my own head on stage. Sometimes
that's the worst place for it to happen to me,
you know, like maybe I don't like how something sounding,
or I don't like the way guitar feels at the moment,
you know, or it's you know, any little thing that
can happen, you know, is the danger for me to
go completely off the edge and just like not be

(05:01):
able to dig myself out of that moment. It's bad
when I go down, but I try to avoid it.
Will you go down like that? Because I'll go down
like that absolutely, and it can ruin my whole day
and everybody else's whole day. So I try to be
conscious of it and not do it for.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Me my co host Amy can you can notice that
and she's the one that goes boom and she'll try
to pull me out of it.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Is that what Morgan does for you? Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Absolutely, because she can see it sometimes or she can
see it happening when maybe.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
You can't, or you're just starting. Absolutely, Yeah, same thing,
just delevery slow because part of the creative part of
you needs to be in that space. Well, yeah, you've
got to be on the edge. You just can't fall
off of it. Do you feel like sometimes you don't
want to fix yourself because you'll lose your edge. Do
you ever have that thought? I'm not till now, never

(05:56):
mind scratch that, because that's something I'll be like, I
don't know if I should get better because I'll lose it.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
No, you know I used to think those kind of things,
but I always feel like there's room for improvement and
and if something's making your your overall health or life better,
it's not necessarily it's not losing your edge, you know,
I feel like those things.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's not losing edge. It's just it's making making you sharper.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
You finish the show, you come off stage, what's the
what's the first thing you do finish the show.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, I thank all the local crew guys for for
the work, and a lot of times my wife is
retired for the evening before the encore.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Is over, so.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
I'll go find out where she is if she needs anything,
and then I'll probably why not hang with the band
guys for a few minutes in the dressing room and
then hit the bus and I'll be up till two
three in the morning watching Face Off.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
For the eightieth time for the eightieth time.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Do you go back and listen to shows like your
live shows and then criticize or love on yourself.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
No, not, No, I try not to. I mean, we
do record now, and we have a pretty elaborate recording rig.
We basically, you know, have as much of that kind
of stuff as we can have out there for cataloging,
and we're trying to put together some live things. But
it's a real uh, well, that microscope is tough, you know,

(07:29):
on live shows, you know, because there's so much other
external things going on. You know that sometimes you can
be too hard on yourself, so you have to really
listen to it with a different set of ears, and
maybe you would listen to something you're really picking on
in the studio.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
So, well, you look at a crowd, and when you
look at a crowd, will you focus on the people
that are having a great time or you see the
one that's.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like anybody that spending my show just knows that I
don't look at the crowd a whole lot, because that
a little bit can break focus for me. Like I'll
look at the crowd when I'm not playing and I'll
try to interact with them in that way. But if
I do look out there and I see somebody not

(08:15):
having a good time, it can do that thing and
we're talking about or if I see somebody having too
good of a time, it will make me smile, it
will make me too happy, and I forget what I'm doing.
So I'm I'm very add that way, So I have
to be real careful about, you know, eye contact. I
do a very controlled version of it for myself, just

(08:36):
to try to and make sure I don't lose focus
of what I'm doing in the circle of everybody in
the band.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
You know, Yeah, I didn't know that because I do.
I've seen you play a bunch and you do kind
of keep down a bit when you play.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
Yeah, I'm here, yeahside the circle, like.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Somebody can see me over the radio or whatever this is.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
And but I'm I'm very much in the guitar and
I'm in my singing, and I'm in with the rest
of the band. That's where that's where the stuff's happening.
And when that's not going on, then the interaction happens
a little bit more in the crowd. Maybe if I
take a solo off step out front just for a minute,
and we can give a little plants here in there.

(09:14):
But for the most part, I try to keep there's
this like a little circle happening on stage no matter
what we're playing that I'm trying to stay in that circle.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
That circle too is important to you. Oh yeah, the
people in that circle. Absolutely, they're the same people on
the record. Absolutely Why they's so important to you?

Speaker 3 (09:34):
None of we wouldn't be sitting here talking if it
wasn't for the people in that circle. You know, none
of this would be what it is, and none of
it would be happening at all if it weren't for
the people in that circle.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
You really care about it, huh, oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
Can it?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Try as I can tell you, I feel like with me,
I'm as good as the people around me are. Like
I try, I surromise. The people made me.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Better, right, And that's that's one of the best things
you can do if you want to be better, surround
yourself with the best people you can find and whatever.
And that extends into you know, when we're on the
road with a pretty what I will consider a good
sized crew, and everybody in that crew is that for us.
And I think that's the key to putting on a

(10:32):
successful tours is you get the absolute best people to
work with you.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Can find at all times.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
And uh, there's four on stage, but the four on stage, Yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
I mean, that's that's that's the fist for you.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
That's you.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, it's the type like right there, those four. I
mean it sounds like ten, but it's you four.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, No, that's that's the you know.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
And then you know, Dave Cobbs in there when he
wants to be in there, and uh, you know, Micky
rolfe Els in there when he has meant to be.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
In there, and Dave go wherever he wants to be
whenever he wants to be like.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
That dude, But interpically, Dave likes the show up for
things that are really easy travel or very high profile.
Those those are days too. He'll he'll tell you as
much he likes you know, those the best things to
go to. You know, this is the easiest things to
go to. So uh oh, let me talk about Blue
Egg all right? So all right, let's let's switch.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
It up a bit.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Uh You you played for Tom Petty, you get to
play it wriglely with Tom Petty.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I don't know anyone who loves music, you know, just
genre less music that didn't love Tom Petty.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
If you don't love Tom Petty, I don't know what's
the matter with you?

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Ready to go.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Seek some kind of help. It's you know, if you
can't find something in some of Tom Petty's music that
you like, I worry about you a little bit.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
When you're when you're playing before Tom with Tom, did
you take a second and like take.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
It in when you're on stage?

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Absolutely, you're well, first of all, we're at wrigley Field.
The first first show we played with him was at
wrigley Field, And so that alone would be enough to
be like, hey, we're playing a wrigley Field. But then
you add to the fact that we're there with Tom
Petty and the harb Wreckers. It's you know, that's you know,
if you told seventeen year old me that that was

(12:22):
going down, my head would blow up. And it still
felt that way a whole lot. You know, Seventeen year
old me showed up that day it was like really yeah.
I was just like, yeah, Wrigley Field with Tom Petty
sounds great.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
You still get excited? Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Every night it's a new thing, you know, because you know,
we don't run tracks, we don't do any that kind
of stuff. So every night anything can happen.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Which is crazy because again it's for the most part,
it's four people on stage. Yes, and you don't run tracks.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
It sounds like ten people up there. Well, we're just
playing your dad can and you and you're playing the
lead I am, and you're singing. I watch it and
I'm just like, okay.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
Are you are you harsh on?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Let's say you're doing a solo, Well you pick a part,
We're like, oh man, I really I really screwed that up.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well I'm gonna screw this. Let's just get one thing
out of the way. I'm gonna screw up a solo
at some point in a show, and probably two or
three solos in the show. But hey, it's that way,
you know, it's live, and I've I've learned to just
laugh it all a little bit, you know, and then
and then see if I can find my way back home,

(13:42):
you know.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
So it's Soloing is a very new thing to me. Really.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
It's really only something I started doing pretty much right
before the Travel record because I had two guys in
the band quit and it got down to me and
JT and Derek and we had we had.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Three gigs that weekend. I was like, hey, you think
we can cover this. They're like, I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
You have a bass player and a drummer. You really don't
have many options. Except it was out of.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
Necessity that that I started doing that, and I was like, well,
maybe I uncover it, maybe I'll figure something out, and
then you know, from there, I've learned to forgive myself
my shortcomings as a guitar player and just you know,
enjoy it, because I do enjoy playing guitar.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I really do.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
It's probably as much as I enjoyed saying I enjoy it,
and so you know, maybe someday I'll wake up and
be a real boy, you know, like be a real
guitar player.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know, whenever you hurt yourself, you just didn't want
to sing, You don't want anybody to come in? Was
that a like a when you hurt your hand, you
didn't want to not be able to do both?

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Well, So much of our show is, like I said,
we don't run tracks. There's not a roadmap necessarily for
what we do. A lot of it is very much
something we've developed over time of I'm gonna do this here,
and you know, and like Derek, A feel things coming
when I'm playing that he can catch. And so much

(15:11):
of our show is that if I can't play, we
can't do a show because nobody coming in is going
to have that you know, understanding of the musicianship within
the circle of the piece. It's not gonna work. It's
gonna be something different. And I feel like that's selling
a little short and I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
When you had to cancel the shows, that sucked for
you that.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, well it sucked worse for the people that had
tickets and plans than it did for me. You know,
I had to deal with. You know, it's still a
little aggravating to deal with, but you know, I felt
worse about the people that I was inconvinced than anything
I was having to go through. So it'd be fine,

(15:57):
what's up with.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
These the Eagles. That's that's pretty freaking cool. That is cool.
I'll say that, be proud. It's pretty freaking cool. Yeah, man,
it's it was Eagles with Vince Gill.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
So it's just like, yeah, you know, I'm I was
trying to talk to somebody the other day.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
You know, I paid, I.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Saved up my money and when the hell is over
to it was out and I bought me a ticket,
my brother a ticket, and we would fourth throw up
in Charleston, West Virginia, and they played for four hours,
and to this day it's one of the greatest shows.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
I've been to. So they played for four hours.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
They played for four hours, They played us to the
Eagles for like two hours, and then the Eagles became
the house bands, so to speak, and they played everybody's solo.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
So, like Henley when did.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Anything you can think of, yeah, that was solo stuff.
So that you got the Eagles and all their solo stuff.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Did you watch the documentary on CNN that like the
Eagles multi part document you ever see that, No, that's it.

Speaker 6 (16:59):
That's the first of all. It was like a hundred
hours and way better than Face Off. So it covers
like it's a on Direct TV. On the bus is
probably not on Direct TV. Okay, well that's on my
own entertainment. I don't have TV at home.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Here's Derek Spentley on driving to Nashville with his dad
and how he had to learn to balance life on
the road and being a new dad back in the day.
You mentioned a minute ago in two thousand and eight
when you say your career is stalled. M M nine, Yeah,
eight or nine, because right now we see you as
the guy who has You're now in the A it's

(17:34):
hard to get in the A group.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
You're in the A group. You're now in the A group.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
I think you're a recent addition, just speaking frankly to
the your regional edition to the A group. Yeah, B
plus maybe you're you really are in the I would
tell you if you weren't plus plus.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
You're in the U.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
You're in the You're in the like you're in that
mix of is he going to be in the Entertainment
of Year category. Now it's not He's for sure going
to be nominated, Like you know Luke is going to
be nominated, Yeah, and probably gonna win yeh.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
And he didn't win ACML, Dean did.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
But like you know, Luke's gonna be But you're on
that is he going to be in and it's happened
in the last couple of years. But it's but you're
like the consumate grinder. Yeah, I've used that word a lot.

Speaker 7 (18:10):
It's like the hockey player that goes down there and
not the slap shot guy from out top, not the
fancy ford that's getting the sweet goals with the guy
that goes down in the corner and digs the pucks out.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
You know.

Speaker 7 (18:18):
It's probably that's when I play hockey here in town
in my little league at the Beer League. That's kind
of my role in real life on that hockey team,
and I think in my career, yeah, it's all about
well grinding. My favorite quote is was written on a
It was the Calvin Coolest quote. But it's about you know,
persistence and determination. It's you know, education and talent and
genius can't take the place of persistence and determination. That

(18:41):
is the key to my success for sure, and I
know probably for yours as well. I mean, there's no
reason why I should be a country singer or a pilot,
but you know, those are just things that I wanted
to do. And if you work harder than anyone else,
you got a better chance of making that happen.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
What what happened in two thousand and eight, two thousand
and nine, and your mind, where do you.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Take a step back?

Speaker 7 (19:01):
You know, I went out on the road with I
played a thousand dates on my own. I went out
of the road with Kenny, and then I went out
of the road towards straight and I went back on
the road with Kenny. And that's usually that's usually the
platform to jump off of. You know, that's where urban
flats everyone went through Kenny back when those when we
were starting off. And if you got the Kenny gig boom,
you were a couple years in New you be headlining
on your own, and you know, we were really looking

(19:22):
like a two thousand and eight. We'd be bringing out
some video and it's gonna be this kind of the
ground swell, and really, uh, it's for you know, it's
just the songs weren't there. That's what it comes down to.
I was writing pretty much all my own songs, working
love with some friends mind here in town. And and
it's not their fault either, it's it's it's nobody's fault.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
I'm so happy that things are where they are. But
I think I discovered you can't tour.

Speaker 7 (19:45):
I think I was in my mind, I was trying
to make albums that would be jet fuel for the
for touring, like how can this album, how can this
song lead to headlining? And that's and you know, I need,
I need the song help me get there. And that's
just a terrible way to make records. And nothing against
those records. Those records still sound like some are still
some of my favorite signing records, but as far as

(20:05):
singles go and songs are going to move the needle,
and really, uh you know, and I feel like I
just needed to reset. I don't know, I just I
was you can only work so hard, man. I was
working so hard on the road, touring NonStop, you know,
jumping off stage, I'm stage diving, I'm pulling fans up.
I'm just you know, known as the hard working men

(20:27):
in country music, we did like forty one shows.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
In forty five days one time.

Speaker 7 (20:31):
I mean, I'm out there all the time, and I'm
trying to rush back here and make records and go
back out there again.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
It just it just doesn't It just doesn't work that way.

Speaker 7 (20:38):
So I was on the road in two thousand and
eight or nine with Paisley and except I tried my
headlining thing, it just wasn't working. So it was like, okay,
retreat Brad was I had a chance to go with
Brad and it was on that tour and I was
opening for him, and there's a lot going on that tour.
Weren't really getting a chance to sound check, and there's
just the vibe of my band just as it was

(21:00):
kind of the tour that just everyone just like, you know,
we're just only playing for forty five minutes, and it's
just the songs weren't really there. And I just was
like in the back of my bus one day and
I remember thinking, I'm gonna make a bluegrass record. I'm
wanna make a blue grass record and a country record,
and just I need to get creative. That's what I
kept thinking, is I need to get creative, because when
you're you're in that opening slot, especially after you've headlined

(21:21):
for a little while, it's techic go back and just
do forty five minutes of the same show every night.
You know, you're trying to make the most of that
forty five minutes, so you kind of get locked into
doing the same show.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
And it just killed all of us.

Speaker 7 (21:31):
So I left and made ended up making just just
a bluegrass record, and uh it really and I went
back in the process of making that, being off the
grid and not worrying about singles or touring or anything,
just trying to make a great record that stood alone
by itself and existed just for for itself totally rechanged

(21:51):
my thinking. And you know, I still looking around people
like Miranda Lambert and you know she only writes half
an album, if even that, you know, and Lady A
and these people at the time were like, you know,
they're collecting great songs. You know, they came to realize
that after your second album, you can't write an entire
album just there's no time. You're touring all the time.
You saw some man of the responsibilities I had. I

(22:13):
was married at this point, as kids too, So the
blue grass record, you know, I was working with the
guy m John Randall one of my best friends, and
he was bringing me great songs from Christopherson and Buddy
Miller and just we started making a collection of an
album that had my input but also had songs that
kind of rounded out what I was trying to say
or the field the album.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
And I carry that on with working with.

Speaker 7 (22:33):
Ross Kapperman into the next couple of albums and uh,
really trying to make albums that don't worry about touring,
do worry about anything.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Who cares? Just make a great record.

Speaker 7 (22:43):
And one of the great things now I don't have
an A lister, but who are am in my career
is there's the better off you are doing touring and
the more of you you have those fans, more freedom
you have to say, who cares, Let's make the record
you really want to make. I feel like that's why
Keith is making like his best records, Keith Thurman's records
me just get better and better each time because I
feel like he's even more like I don't care. I'm

(23:04):
gonna make great music that makes me happy that I
like and hopefully you like it too. But there's no
there's no math behind it. You know, it's just totally.
It's pure art and he didn't have to worry about
where he's gonna get his next meal. You know, he's
just making great records. And I feel like there's on
both ends of the spectrum. When you're first starting off
and you're so hungry, and then when you get to
place you have a little bit of success and you

(23:25):
have that freedom that it brings.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
To you, you can really make your best records. And I
feel like that's what's happening now. I'm not sure to
I answer your question, but yeah, you and Keith get
along pretty well.

Speaker 7 (23:32):
I love him man too. It's hard for me to
be friends with them because I just have so much
respect for him. It's like we're good friends, but at
the same time, like you're Keith Urban.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
It's almost it's almost like why do you This is
the feeling I have with him because him and I
are closer than him than.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Me and other arms.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, and he's one of the guys I like when
we'll talk to off the show. But it's like what
I was, like, why do you want to be friends
with me? He like, you're so smart, yeah, and he's
so talented and you're so rich, like everything about you
is way better than why would you want to be
friends with me?

Speaker 4 (24:03):
That's how I feel with him.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
He is for me.

Speaker 7 (24:06):
He's like a he's like a beacon. He's someone I
look up to for advice on just for for lifestyle
and management and how you approach things. And he's just
he's so present, which is something I always you know,
that's my main thing with anything I do is trying
to be as present as possible in the moment that
I'm in.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
And he really is a true reflection of that.

Speaker 7 (24:27):
I mean when when you speak to him, and you
talk to him, he's so focused on what you have
to say. He's listening, and uh, it's very uncommon in
this business full you know, singers and people are trying
to look at me and you know are have like
five seconds look into your eyes and they're kind of
thinking about the next thing. He's just really focused and
present and has great advice and he's been through a lot,

(24:47):
so he can offer a good good gems. But whenever
I see him a choosing on a Sunday, uh and
we're doing some with our kids or something, and I'm
like coming off the road and just beat up my brain.
His brains are aready functioning faster than mind. Anyway, I'm
coming off like no sleep, I'm tired. I'm trying to
make conversation with him, like hopefully I see you one day,
and I'm not like just so exhausted because it'd be

(25:09):
fun to.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Talk, like have an actual real conversation.

Speaker 8 (25:12):
Hang tight, the Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow,
and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 4 (25:23):
What was that for you?

Speaker 1 (25:24):
What was the song that were you kind of switched
it up for You're like, oh boy, we're a different
plant Field now.

Speaker 7 (25:29):
As man, I think my career has been so different
than anyone else's. I know it's it's just been so
such a long slow.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
What comes to mind where you're like, I'll be talking
a plane changed a lot for me. I'm getting drunk
on playing. I mean the biggest song, this song had
a big like body.

Speaker 7 (25:49):
The most important song of my whole career, and I
say every night when I'm on stage is as I
Hold On. That's a song that like connects the most
of the whole most personal song for me. I wrote
a rap my I passed away and the audience, man,
those it's a song in the show where like we're
having a party.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Thing's fun. It's awesome.

Speaker 7 (26:07):
We're all fully connect because we're all having so much
fun and throwing a party. In this song I play,
it's just like it loses in a different direction. It's
it's it's more just like this instead of this. It's
like we just come together over the let's share sentiment
of the whole amount of things that mean something to you,
and it's it's more important song.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
The important, but not the one you felt flipped you like,
oh boy, this is it. I remember the day drunk
on a playing like I heard of at the first time. Yeah,
you brought it into the studio. I hadn't been played yet,
and you were like, I want you to hear this song.
I was like, this is a real song, drunk on
a playing. I thought you were messing with me. Yeah,
And I almost didn't even put it on the record. Really,
who makes that call then to put it on the record.

Speaker 7 (26:46):
Just you know, I'm so everyone I work with there's
such an open communication.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
If I like even the label.

Speaker 7 (26:51):
With Mike and sending everyone to Capital, If if I
have doubts about something, they don't immediately jump on that
new set to promote their agenda. Everyone just just like cooling,
work out together and work with Mary and we just
kind of like and our tour and my executive producer
and Ross and just okay, let's put it on there,
you know.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
But then they make it a single you're talking about
like completely left of center.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
I know.

Speaker 7 (27:12):
I remember I had some people like that's all will
never worked. Man, Red necks don't fly like I don't know.
I don't know if it will work either, but it's
it's I'm a pilot and I love you know. At
the time, it was a few drinks and it was
it was. But it is a huge song for me,
for sure.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
It was a month it was. It was a monster. Yeah,
and then it flew up the charts. Yeah, it was big.
I remember the day it came on the radio. We
did a debut, like a world premire of it, and
it played all day long. And I won't say what
it is, but I was like, man, this sounds really good, right,
because I like things that are different. Yeah, I don't care.
I like taking big chances and hitting home runs more
so than being consistent and just you know, having that

(27:50):
three hundred bating average.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
So it came out I was like, man, I love
this song because this is sound like anything else, and
that one of our radio guys, with a big radio guy,
he was like, this sucks.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Sucks, We're gonna work. It's too weird. No, it's not.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Obviously it wasn't right because but like I love this song.
You know a song I loved yours it didn't work
for you was Bourbon in Kentucky. Yeah, well you and Casey.
I loved that song too.

Speaker 7 (28:14):
That album cycle is so funny because I put up
Bourbon it didn't work, pulled it back, put out I
Hold On, which probably you know, was a huge songf
for me, then Drunk on a Plane, which was obviously
the biggest song off that album. But Bourbon, it was
a great song that Hillary Lindsay wrote, and I just
I love that song. And I had to call her up.
She's down Orange Beach. She had a few drinks and
I was like hey, She's like, hey, what are you doing.
I was like, you're not gonna believe this, but we're

(28:37):
pulling that song and she was like so confused. She's
just like I thought the next time I heard from
me would be like the number one party. I'm like
I've never had a pull song for my life. But
it's the middle of summer and I'm getting all his
feedback that the song's too dark, and that's why I
loved it, though I know, I mean, I know I
love it too, and I just everyone's everyone around. He
was like, it's just not gonna work, and you can

(28:58):
either work it for thirty weeks and have it die
in the thirties or make a change now. It was
the first song off the record, and I hate that.
It was a great tune, but yeah, just that's what
happens sometimes.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
What for you, because the artists will come in and say, hey,
this is like, for example, I think, who was it?
My American kids like Kenny cut a little big town
had it yeah, and Kenny cut it yeah, and so.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
No, no, Kenny had it. Wait, yeah, a little bit
down had it. Yeah, a little bit down had it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Shane was telling the story. Okay, now it's all sorts
of yeah, a little Shane had it. He's on a
flight and uh, he's on a flight with Kennedy. He
plays his song for Kken. He's like, I gotta have
the song. But Shane's like, I'm too scared to tell
him a little bit now I's already cut it. Yeah,
so he has to call they have to call a
little big down and Kenny said like, I would love
to have this song. And Shane's like oh, and Kenny's like,

(29:51):
I want to make this the single. Oh yeah, and
He's like, it's up to you, guys, it's your song.
You've already started paying your your tracking it. And so
a little big town gave this song American Kids to Kenny.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
So a lot of people come to the stories like, man,
I had this song and then I was like, yeah,
last minute, I let it go.

Speaker 7 (30:08):
I have a bunch of songs that like I heard
and I because the main thing if you're picking singles
you got to pick are picking songs. You gotta pick
songs that are hits, but also their hits for you,
and that's that's that's how you get the big hits
out of the park.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
And I hit three hundreds.

Speaker 7 (30:21):
When you pick singles that are like made for you,
you think of songs like Don't Close your Eyes by
Keith Whitley, songs that like We're just as a singer
was made for that song, John Party song during my Boots.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
I heard that song. I think before he you know,
before he cut.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
It, and what did you think when you heard it?

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Huge hit? This is a monster, This is a huge song.
There's a line there about.

Speaker 7 (30:41):
A tractor, you know, and I was like that, I
don't have that tractor factor.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
You know, I don't have that thing. It's not what
I do. So, like, I could either try to change
this song up to make it work for me, or
just let it go and help those guys, you know.
I don't want the songwriters.

Speaker 7 (30:53):
I want them to find for songwriters, man, they might
get one or two great Oh these guys, they probably
get five great songs.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Right.

Speaker 7 (31:00):
I don't want to stand away someone's like baby and
tied up, because that's the way Nashville used to be.
People to hold songs like yours, you know, hold thirty
forty songs to the record, and the hold was respected
nowadays as it should be. It's not like you either
cut it or you don't. And if you're you're you're
taking your time. I'm gonna pictck it to somebody else
and get them to cut it.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
You know.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Songwriters have more power now, I think than they did
back in the late nineties.

Speaker 7 (31:25):
But so that song Whiskey Lullaby is a song that
came that I oh, that's a good herd and I
was like, ah, and then and why why not that one?

Speaker 9 (31:33):
What?

Speaker 2 (31:33):
What?

Speaker 4 (31:33):
What? That?

Speaker 7 (31:34):
It's just uh, I don't know just what, you know.
I didn't hear it as a duet that the way
Brad heard it, which is genius.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
It just wasn't. I don't know. I just didn't have it,
didn't do it, didn't do something for me. I don't
know what it was.

Speaker 7 (31:46):
But there's that happens all the time, but for me,
it's there. I ever go, oh my gosh, I'm kicking myself.
I'm always like, I'm happy for that that song found
the right home and made its way.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
There's there's always another song out there.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Who have you heard the opposite where you got this long?
Because somebody else was like, and you made it a
hit and they have to be well, man, you know,
somewher on the Beach was a big deal.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
It really was.

Speaker 10 (32:05):
Man.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
That was like, uh, yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (32:10):
Had this song on hold. And there's five guys who
wrote that song. And there's a lot of people wanted
that song, and I just who wanted it wrote One
of those the writers of the song. I'm totally drawing
a blank right now. My brain is what happens when
you're on the road for three days straight. But well, actually,
Michael Knox, I think I think Michael Knox wanted it
for one of his artists of what it was, and

(32:32):
we kept saying, you know, our tour. I luckily I
don't to fight those battles. My one of my producers
really goes in the trenches for that stuff and it
worked out as a big hit for for me and
it helps him go on the road and kind of
have a song and talk about But at the same time,
I know it's to be tough.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
When you're a new artist.

Speaker 7 (32:46):
You know, a big song that that's different you can
kind of set you apart from other people.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
But I hopefully they're happy it was a big hit.
You know.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
It's like Lady A you know, Lady has You Look good? Notice.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, And that was Thomas Rhetts first. That's his song,
and it was he didn't write it, he had it
okay and he was like he was gonna cut it huge.
It's awesome the whole I mean and the whole. But
every artist does different things with it too. Yes, that's
what we don't know too, Like, yeah, what are you
gonna do different about? Like Kenny's totally was like this
beach vibe. Who knows how Little Big Tow went cut
it and tracked it when what they would have had
as a part of.

Speaker 7 (33:17):
This song, and it's it's yeah, totally, it's you know,
I think all you can do. I mean, it's just
the business we're in and in life in general, is
you have to like you cannot like hold like that
you could. You got to be have an attitude of
gratitude and be thankful for what you got. And if
something it's all meant to be, it's it's it's there's
a reason why you didn't cut that song. There's just

(33:38):
wanted someone else to cut the song. And otherwise you're
gonna drive yourself crazy and you're gonna be resentful and you're
gonna be you're you're playing a small game and you
should be playing a much bigger game where you're looking
at a macro view of it, not just this micro.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Like song song, song, song song. If you're you know,
that's not that's not the work.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Jake Cohen says he owes his career and where he
is today to the Nashville songwriters that he met real
early on. Because here, I'll tell you, I was talking
to Ross Kapperman and good Man.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
We were talking about you know, we had a.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Really good talk and he's coming to the stand up
show Saturday. Just talked to him and we were you know,
you kind of get lost in these conversations and didn't
feel like this microphone in front of you.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
For a while.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
And we're talking about songs, and I'm just so interested
in the songwriter part of it for me, Like that's
why I started this thing. Were like, I'm interested in
songwriters and why they write songs, artists, artist or songwriter,
songwriter a song I just wanted to know, Like I
want to put some light in a place that really
there's not a lot of lights shined on. And so
I was like, so tell me you write these songs.

(34:42):
These these guys take these cuts that aren't theirs, Like
most artists, if it's fifty to fifty or if it's
sixty forty, they'll still go with their own song over
another cut if if it's close. And he was like,
you're right, that does happen a lot, he said, But
you know, here's what Kenny Chesney had told him. He said,
you will sell more and merch if you have a

(35:03):
hit it's not yours. Then if it's a great song,
then if you have a good song, it is yours.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
The money you'll make.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, And he.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Was like, that's what a lot of artists. And again
he's a songwriter who isn't and who's not on the radio.
So you gotta understand way's come up from a biased
agenda phil place. We all are, I am, your everybody is.
But he was like, you know, that's what the new
artist should know, and that's what artists should know, Like
you should take outside song from songwriters, because here's Kenny Chesney,
who I don't know that Chesney writes anything on his

(35:33):
records anymore.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, he has very little. Yeah, so but.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
He's not he doesn't, it's not it doesn't matter to him.
He wants to find great songs.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Well, he said, what's.

Speaker 11 (35:43):
Yeah, And that's why Kenny's always been great. He's found
the greatest way possible of doing something, whether it be
a song, whether it be a show, whether it be
his body working out. Like the guy does everything to
a high level, and he expects a high level of
of everything and his music. He's written great songs that
were number one hits. You know, I go back, you

(36:04):
wrote that by himself? I think, but a lot like
I've learned from him being on the road as many
much as I was. Where he was like, Jake, you
just got to take what's the best song. And he's right,
because my first two albums I wrote every song everything.
And it wasn't until I recorded Barefoot Blue je Night
and heard Eric Possel singing the demo on it, I

(36:26):
was like, man, this sounds like me. And I didn't
write it, but it sounds like me. I thought, was it.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Tough for you to take an outside song for the
first time and go, well.

Speaker 11 (36:35):
Here's what a lot of people don't know either, Like
when you come to town, when you're come to town
and you're just a guy that is trying to make
it and be validated as a great Like I wanted
people in town to be like, man, have you heard
this j Kid. He's a great singer, he's a great songwriter,
He's a great I felt like in order to get
that buzz happening, I had to write my own songs

(36:57):
and write with other songwriters and show that I could
I could do that. But and I was also with
a buddy of mine who was helping me. We were
writing everything together, and I was being loyal to him
and never realized that by reaching into this beautiful, deep
well of songwriters.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
That you can have a hit that and and people
don't care. They don't.

Speaker 11 (37:17):
You're just as much validated if you have a if
you because you know, what's funny is, I think probably
a lot of people thought I probably wrote Barefoot Blue
j Knight because it was so much like me, but.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
It also made it sound like you too. That's also yeah,
well thank you.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (37:31):
I think that's what I realized is that I had
hits by songs I wrote. I had a career song
by taking an outside song, which that career song started
a string of Alone with You was next and went
number one. Uh, Anywhere with You was the third one.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
It went number one. Well a second, let's let's learn
over a second. Le me tell you my favorite.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
Jake On song.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
This one here.

Speaker 9 (37:59):
Songhand and that's not some beechy coastal song, you know,
it's just a song that I And what's funny is
Shane Mcanawly wrote this song and I told him for
a year before I recorded it, I didn't even have
it on hold.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I was just like, dude, I love that song. I
was like, I hate the line in.

Speaker 12 (38:14):
It you got edge every time you call?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Uh? He said, you you don't have to, I sang
and change the lyrics.

Speaker 12 (38:22):
You've got me out on the edge every time you call.

Speaker 11 (38:26):
You know what he said originally in this in that line,
no kidding, said you've got me running.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
With scissors now the hall, Yeah, you know, okay?

Speaker 11 (38:37):
And he said because he was right reading a book
called running with Scissors.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Another book, dude. And I was like, no, that's terrible.

Speaker 11 (38:46):
I was like I can't know, and like I was like,
I don't run with ever since my mom was a
I was a kid. My mom's like, don't run with scissors. Like,
and I understand the idea of it, but like, isn't
it more of a metaphor? Now I'm not saying the
line was right now, I like the line change, but
isn't it a metapal run with scissors? Like it's a metaphor. Yeah,
it is a metaphor. And I know it was a metaphor,
but there's also lines and songs like that's the thing

(39:07):
getting back to taking outside songs. There's so many times
I hear songs I'm like, I love it, love it,
love it, love it, love it, love it, love it.
What did you just say? I'm like, uh huh. And
that one thing. It's kind of like, you know, people
say they're not like vain or whatever, but you might
be like super into a dude or a guy or
whatever and be like, oh everything about him, Oh my god,
he's one like big toe.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
It's just like and it turns you off. Right. I'm
not saying I've ever done that. I'm just saying.

Speaker 11 (39:29):
People people can be like particular about certain things. And
that's how I am with songs. Like if I hear
one thing that, it'll throw me off, so I either
have to rewrite it and then just say, hey man,
I'll cut this song. I just had to rewrite this
one part. But that's one thing I'll tell you I've
never done. You can ask Eric Paslay this and he
talked about it on this really for extensively. Like I
cannot take credit on like even if I write something

(39:52):
within a song, since the song wasn't originally my idea,
I can never feel comfortable taking credit for that, Eric,
because they set me up for the home run. I
just and I didn't have anything to do with it.
I'd rather give the credit back to their songwriter. That's
where it to do. Songwriter's man or songwriters have made
my I'm a songwriter, but these other songwriters in Nashville,

(40:13):
Ross Coffin, I mean, he produced and it was a
big part Shane of my last album. And without these
types of guys like I wouldn't I wouldn't be where
I am in my career. I wouldn't have the things
I have in my life, No way, absolutely not. So
I always get to give that back to them.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, Eric talked for a long time about how you
came into that song and fixed it to be you
a lot and didn't want any credit for it, Like
he was like it was kind of unbelievable that he
came in, did so much rearranging of things that made
it felt like his song and never asked for anything.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Man, I just I don't feel like it's right.

Speaker 11 (40:51):
Plus, it will all come back around one day, you know,
like I've always looked at it, like you do the
right thing right, good things come back around.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Barefoot Blue Jenn Number one Alone with You number one
one that.

Speaker 11 (41:02):
Got away When we got away every one. I wrote
that song, Uh true story about a girl of it
just came to town in my small town, go to beach,
Florida and met her one summer and she went away
and never met.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Never saw her ever again.

Speaker 11 (41:17):
And I thought this song actually would like as much
like the reset that story, that person would pop up
and be like, did.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
You ever look for on Facebook? You never even looked
for it.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
I don't even have a Facebook, man.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yeah, that didn't mean you didn't have Facebook, like old Jabe,
Twitter or something old Jake.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Maybe my Space. I looked up around MySpace a.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Lot of places in our lifetime. We've got to see
it all like start. Yeah, how about uh.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
For Jane too? Yeah? Another song I didn't write. I
did not write that song. I just love it. David
Lee Murphy wrote this song, I think with Ben Hayslip
and Uh, well, man, I feel terrible. I'm forgetting the
third writer on this song right.

Speaker 11 (41:56):
Now because we had a great night in d and
my awards or game my show that I did. There
you came out the first time and introduced team Actually
if you remember that did yeah you did?

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Again, it's been I've been here four years now, you did.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
That's when I gave you that photo.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Lived twenty years. Yeah, does it feel like you've been
here one hundred years.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah. But I love it here, like I moved here
because I love it here, Dude.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
I love it here. I hate the industry. I love
the people, and I love the part of the country.
And I love the listeners of my show because they're
normal people and I get to be a normal person
with them.

Speaker 11 (42:30):
Yeah, I hate the music industry. Here's the thing about
the music industry. And this is dude, I could say
whatever I want about the music industry and it wouldn't
matter one way or another as far as you know
how I feel or whatever. No one gives us a
crap about what I think. But I do believe that
there are so and I think you have to admit

(42:51):
in this, like the music industry gets a rep for
what it is. But there's so many great people, dude, Like,
there are so many great people and so many creative
a lot of people and so many like, there's so
many people that have helped like, and I keep going
back to it, like I know because I've messed up
many of times I've said.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Things that people I should never said. I've done that,
like and.

Speaker 11 (43:10):
I've said things that I didn't They weren't even meant
the way they received them that were played against me.
But I've learned that like in a town where people
in and then this business, which is creative, by the
worst thing you can do is be like the negative
nanny of the day, you know about the business, because
I found like it can turn against you quick.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Here's John Party talking about moving to Nashville and the
time he got stabbed right before he moved.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
I mean, there's a lot before Nashville. When was it okay?

Speaker 1 (43:44):
So you start making music in California about what age
when you start actually performing and making some money and thinking, okay,
maybe I could do something musically.

Speaker 10 (43:53):
Well, I have a first band of fourteen and we
played the Dixon Mayfair and you know, like during it
was kind of like rock and roll punkish, kind of
like the rebellion from being growing up singing Alan Jackson
and George Strait And.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Were you still doing some like Nirvana any of the
nineties mock.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Me we we did?

Speaker 10 (44:13):
You know, we were in the letter skinnered phase and
like you know, some classic rock and Tom Petty, lots
of Tom Petty. All of my friends jammed out to
like Rage Against Machine and Nirvana and you know, like
Blink Blink.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Went a two and Green Day were huge at a time.

Speaker 10 (44:27):
And and and I kind of took that when you
ask the question when you start like playing for real
and kind of making tips and stuff. Eighteen but I
was singing country again, but I had this like kind
of fast rock and roll vibe to it. And then
I went to a place called Chico, California, and has
a college there called Chico State, and it is like

(44:48):
party down, good time, and formed a country band and learned.
And I had a mandolin player and he kind of
taught me a lot about bluegrass. And so we had
this up about eighteen years old. Here I was nineteen
nineteen twenty. Basically that lasted nineteen to twenty two.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
And then after that I moved to Nashville.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
And.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
I was new.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I wanted to move in Nashville.

Speaker 10 (45:09):
I took some trips out kind of you know, realize
that I should probably be twenty one so I can
get into the bars.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
You know, like hang out and like get up and
do a microphone.

Speaker 10 (45:19):
You get there's still places you can play with back
in two thousand and eight, you know, even that way,
maybe I moved here with an atlas, like I didn't
have GPS on my phone, like it's still kind of
it was.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
It seemed so like.

Speaker 10 (45:30):
Really, did you have a horse and a buggy? And
it seems like so long ago, years ago? Yeah, like
what would you do without your GPS now? But there
we're back in the day.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
We have maps, and it was pretty easy. It was
three three highways and.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
What's that drive? What's that drive?

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Like three days?

Speaker 10 (45:48):
Yeah, three days of excitement, you know, twenty two.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
I was excited, like I'm doing it. My mom was sad.
My dad was like, go get a job.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Like trying to.

Speaker 10 (46:01):
He's such a worker, but he you know, my dad.
Everybody pushed me to go to Nashville.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
You know.

Speaker 10 (46:07):
It's they always said, ain't gonna happen here, you know,
And so saved up some money when I was working
for my dad, and I got my dog in a
PA system and I drove to Nashville, found a place
to live and was on the grind, you know, kind
of hanging out and.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
You drove three days, three three and a half.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
I think, so you and your dog, you sleep in
the truck, you stop at hotels that we kept the dogs.

Speaker 10 (46:33):
He'd stay in the truck because sometimes I'm stinking in
but we had you know, he had guitars and stuff
back there, and he like, he wasn't the dog that
you wanted to open the camber fell you would like
he would bite you and he's scary, and uh so
he kind of and he was fine staying in the truck.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
So how do you get a place to lift, Like
if you're coming from California, northern California or so, and
you gotta find a.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Place of people.

Speaker 10 (47:00):
Well, it came to a couple of trips that I've
come out, you know, like you can easily network and
you know, kind.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Of meet people. And I just did that, and I
you know, I was excited.

Speaker 10 (47:09):
I live within you know, when you're twenty two, you
live in a bathroom. You know, if you had if
it was cheap enough to you know, provide and and
a lot of those people I don't even I don't
even talk to you anymore.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
It is like that that phase where it's just you know.

Speaker 10 (47:24):
Kind of starting at the bottom, I mean the bottom
learning learning the town learn to learning how it was
back in the day. I mean it's totally different.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Now you move here, you're twenty two, you moving with
a roommate or two. Yeah, how do you start? Meaning
if you get here, you met a few people on
some trips where you come check it out, But how
do you start making a life in music? What's the first.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Thing that you do?

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Well?

Speaker 10 (47:51):
I had songs I've written in Northern California with my
band called.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Northern Comfort shout out doing the Comfort.

Speaker 10 (47:59):
That were fun, they were upbeat, they were different, you know,
And so I always had that in my back pocket.
I never like really even shared that, but I just
go out and mingle. I got a job as a
lifeguard and an after school counselor. That kind of helped
me get by and and and uh, I got it

(48:22):
back up before really getting down to the nitty gritty
of how I survived the long haired days. So in
my neighborhood, while I was living in a basement, there
was a townhouse that you can get with no payment.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
Down in Nashville.

Speaker 10 (48:37):
Yeah, And my mom was like, she was all co
signed with it. It wasn't you know, going from California
and Nashville that townhouse wasn't too bad, but I.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Had like four rooms and two and a half bathrooms.
It's like I could totally rent this out. And like
I literally rented every room at the house.

Speaker 10 (48:56):
And that was I was paying my mortgage and I
was playing and I had my little lifeguarden job. But
I did, you know, through mingling basically and kind of
getting that one shot to get up there and play
a song at the time, and you know, everybody kind
of liked and it was fun and we get like
get down and play that song again.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
And uh.

Speaker 10 (49:18):
That kind of happened in a place called Losers and
that was kind of like my home. And I ended
up playing substituting. You know, if the guy couldn't make
a gig, they'd call me come play four hours. I
knew a bunch of covers because we played in covers
and we played for four hours in northern California, like
we were, you know, we started tending and we ended
it too, so I was like, I can do that,

(49:41):
you know, I can do that. So we just kind
of did that for two years and I landed through
mingling and taking songs with publishers, and I knew bart
my co producer.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Now I kind of knew him, and he would sometimes
answer my phone calls always to make that joke. Now
he answered my phone calls.

Speaker 10 (50:03):
But he kind of set me up in with some
people and and and just kind of climbed the ladder
to this old school way like shaking hands. You know,
I'm John Like, yeah, I'm a songwriter. I kind of
focused on songwriting. I didn't want to go play downtown.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
You didn't want to go play like Broadway where all
the mornings, right, No, I was I did that, you know.

Speaker 10 (50:21):
I got that I need to learn how to write,
like what how does Nashville write?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
How can I put? How could I fit into.

Speaker 10 (50:28):
This this system that that there it's obviously songwriters, you know,
and really focused on that and got a publishing deal
and then got some songs and you know, how to show,
you know, started doing We got enough songs for a showcase.
Three showcases in I got signed by Capitol Records with

(50:48):
handshake deal.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
It was kind of like and it took a year
to sign the contract.

Speaker 10 (50:52):
Once twenty eleven we got signed and then they were
like your first single comes out in twenty twelve, so
there's another year.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
So two years and I just kept.

Speaker 10 (51:02):
Writing and writing and writing and recording songs, even demos
and kind of learning learning, and then you know, I
bet that felt like.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Forever though, Like from the moment that your handshake signed,
you're excited and you had your wait two years for
your first song to come out. I bet that was
it felt like a slow two years to get that
first thing out there.

Speaker 10 (51:21):
Well, I mean, we had a great booking agent and
we had a lot of we had a lot through showcase.
I found a band, and we had a van, and
we learned the South and there was a lot of
places that we still talk about playing and like a
lot of guys that are still I see all the
time that that gave us a shot because we could
play cover. We could do this, you know, we could

(51:43):
we could play for three hours, you know, with no
problem with me throwing some originals. Make eight hundred bucks,
you know, max out your credit card, hop in the
van and go, you know in the van.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
It is great.

Speaker 10 (51:55):
That's why now why everyboys asked why is music in Nashville? Well,
it's it's easy for a van to get around really,
when it comes down to because back in the day,
it was built for Cadillacs to get around. So, I
mean the van was really hard to keep up with
a tour bus. Let me tell you that was like
play a show, getting a van dry for five hours,
sleep in a hotel, wake up early to go keep

(52:16):
you know, trying to trying to catch up. But we
were always playing. I was always writing, so it just
and everything was new. You know, I wasn't from the South.
I learned what college football was all about because back
in the West it's not as huge as this year. Like,
so I was learning all this stuff. I was making
new friends, and of course, you know, I had a

(52:38):
record deal.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
But you know, one day, it was always one day.
It's still always one day. But just kept on grinding
and kept on believing it's still always one day.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
You're right about that, It's still always one day for
all of us.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Yeah, I try to do a better job. And now
I had not always looking for one day. One day,
this next thing's gonna happen. Yeah, one day, this next
you know, I try, I really try to put myself
in today. I think that's a struggle for me sometimes. Yeah,
all right, so let me let's put this a little
head over.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Boots from from John Party here before we get back.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Into the.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
I mean, this is the one here. It kind of
catapulted the next level. Yeah, this was the next leveler.
It's just the first one off the record.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
This thing came out and it was just like, oh yeah,
well I felt that the record sounded.

Speaker 4 (53:29):
It sounded super.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Super forward while still being a country record. You know,
it wasn't one of these where you listen to and
you go, oh, that's trying to be something new. It
felt country. Yeah, yet it sounded you're using cool sounds.
There sounds that I think, am I to you?

Speaker 12 (53:50):
Sonically?

Speaker 2 (53:51):
What's this record about? California Sunrise? You know it was.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
I was.

Speaker 10 (53:59):
It was a kind of this is where I am now?
Because I had a first record. I had four singles
on the radio. My first record is called Rayu Song,
and we got up all night on the radio. We
got to number ten, and that let me get my
album out and my first record. Literally once it got

(54:19):
on iTunes and people started listening to it, we're selling
out clubs. We're selling out clubs, is that right with
with We're we're out selling people with number ones? But
and then you know, it was just kind of fun
and you got that that crowd singing back with songs
that were just on the on the record, you know,
and and and it's still to this day we play

(54:39):
songs of that first record. But four years being on
radio tour, you know, twenty twelve January, Miss New Crazy
comes out.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
Now, Oh we got it, already.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Got it, we gotta got it. We got the whole
story down. Then Up all Night and that was in
two thousand fourteen.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Here's a little Up all Night. This is a jam too.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
I gotta come back to this, but yeah, this is one.
When I moved to town, I think this had had
lived its life and had gone away, but was still
one that people were.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Kind of in love with.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
Still, yeah, this is one. This is one turned up
a little bit, you know, the wrong baby, were getting.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
A good one?

Speaker 4 (55:31):
You still like that one?

Speaker 10 (55:31):
Yeah, we played we still play it. I still like
what I can't put down? That was right, That was
right before Up all Night and I was.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Like, this is it. This is the one, you know, but.

Speaker 10 (55:42):
It just didn't you know, tests well, and people played it,
but it got the thirty three and then would put
up on I O and uh, we got to put
the album out and which is a big deal because
you have to have some momentum in a single for
them to go okay.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
Well, now put some money behind a full album.

Speaker 10 (55:57):
And it was a full album, had eleven songs on
and it changed the van life basically. And so, but
what my point is of California Sunrise, there's four years
of writing and being on the radio. Regardless of what
you know, I still was always top forty because I

(56:18):
still have believers in country radio. No matter how high,
what failures, whatever it, I still believed. Like we got
in a label. Was always like, it's not a race,
it's a marathon. You know, you got to take your
time and like, just keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
Can you believe that what was happening?

Speaker 10 (56:37):
You know, I never really got too worked up about
it because you know, if you did listen to what
I was doing, it was kind of it was kind
of different. You know, it's countrier, but it was upbeat,
but it was a country and I kind of came
into my own, like I'm still growing up.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
I was only I got signed at twenty six, and
I don't even know, I don't even know, I don't remember, but.

Speaker 10 (56:58):
I'm still growing up. As I come into a young man,
into a man, and I got to do that with
the record label and kind of under the radar, you know,
not like just boom, here I am world. I kind
of got to learn it all and not be like
the the headliner, you know, where it's just like because

(57:18):
you know sometimes like boom, I'm here, and it wasn't
like that for me. And then I kind of became this,
you know, this is this is who I am. When
California Sunrise came out and I had friends on worked
at radio, friends that listen to my music, people are
giving me great advice and all that just through hard work,
and what California Sunrise was me is like this is

(57:39):
what I This is the new take on that. Four
years of radio touring, country fiddle still you know, all
the stuff I love, And it was just at that point.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
I remember you posted an Instagram video probably two years
ago and it was at a festival and the entire
crowd was singing head over Boots. I remember a message
you go one good God, like it's this is amazing,
Like they were singing all of it. Watershit, it was
watersheded yeah, and George Comma Washington yeah, and it was

(58:11):
the Gorge.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Yeah, the Gorge.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
I probably spelled him wrong. Was so exciting.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
Is it Gorge not George?

Speaker 2 (58:16):
No, it's the Gorge.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I've played that well. I played Watershed. I thoughtay, thought
it was George Washington. I thought it was the Gorge
and George.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
I mean, it's cooler George Washington.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
I always thought that was the thing I was like,
named George Washington.

Speaker 4 (58:25):
Did you ever think that, my dear tonight, I thought
it was a gorge.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Oh, it is called the Gorge. I thought it was
the Gorge and George. Anyway, I'm an idiot. But moving on,
I remember watching that video and going, oh, this has
now arrived on.

Speaker 4 (58:36):
Kind of a macro level.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
No, it's not just a song that is cool and
it's going to come and go like it's still the
one when you have a whole thirty or forty thousand
people singing every word of the Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
Give me some of that again.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I mean, the whole crowd was out of their minds
singing that song.

Speaker 12 (58:51):
Bonkers.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
It was fun.

Speaker 10 (58:53):
That was That was the first that was probably one
of the most surreal, Like, wow, this is the first
you know, you can't get emotional and stuff, and it
was that was that was really cool and uh, I
always I always remember that because that.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Partico there we go with them words, but.

Speaker 10 (59:13):
That slot was uh we finally got you know a
little later on, and like Merle Haggard was supposed to
play either I think right in front of me or
right behind me.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
I don't know.

Speaker 10 (59:25):
It was like, you know, but he passed like two
months before and then then came out and played before us,
and it was like kind of crazy that like with
that moment and Merle Haggard was, you know, gonna play
right for me, which probably would have been like no,
Marl not playing before me, but it was like he
just passed it, and it was It's one of those
things like dang, you know, uh from that crowd and

(59:48):
that kind of just that introspect of me and Merle
would play together and it didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's one of the moments I'll never get.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Yeah, that was a good one just watching it so
that that hits and then it was like, all right, right,
what's happening next with John Party?

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
He had head over Boots. Surelie's not gonna put another
songid Boots in it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
And then boy, did you ever I mean and you
raised that. I mean you saw Boots and you raised
that funkier Boots man. Yeah, what's that conversation like where
you go, all right, we got another song that we love,
but it's name is basically the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
What do we do?

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Is that a room conversation whereverybody's sitting around?

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Well, I, you know, I research a lot. I you know,
I listen.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
You know.

Speaker 10 (01:00:31):
iTunes is great because they have like they have you know,
things like playlists of like, hey, you know, new artists
from all top of the levels, and you know, I'm
always like listening and stuff and so like I do
pay attention. And I pointed out that Keith Urban had

(01:00:51):
two head at that year. He had cop car and
then somewhere in my car and I was like, well,
this is another car song, other Boots song out, you know.
And my favorite was the president of Universal, Mike Dungan,
was like, you know, I don't care about back to
back Boots songs. I care about back to back hits.
That's literally what he said. And I was like, all right,

(01:01:13):
put it out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I always say to everybody asked me, I wear boots
all the time. I we're on boots right now. So
it's not it's not like something that it is just
a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
I have a lot of boots.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Look at that two Boots songs in a row, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Look at that hit after it hit you started. So
when did you go from the band of the tour bus.
That's a big step in the life because the tour
bus is expensive.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Yeah, well there's still expensive.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Two of them are really how you go too? Now?
The humble brack right there. Oh, it's so expensive, it
really is, it really is. Uh.

Speaker 10 (01:01:47):
Now went up at the end of the year when
Up All Night was was peaked and we started going
in and we started own records and kind of selling
out clubs.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
We got our bush. It was fun.

Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
I want to bring up this story about you getting that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
I didn't know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
I felt like I knew everything about you already. I'm stalker,
a big jump party fan, my man.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Yeah, but I know you got stabbed, uh huh in
a belly Yeah five times?

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Oh, I didn't see.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
I didn't even know it was five times. So you're
at you're at a like a bar.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
No, I was eighteen, So the first two or just
slices on the arm. But who get so where were you.

Speaker 10 (01:02:23):
I was out in the country and I was at
my one of my best friends, and we were two
towns that were not rivals, which just you know, you
always kind.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Of have bad kids in your town.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
Man.

Speaker 10 (01:02:37):
There's always the guys that always get in trouble or fight,
you know. And uh, in this town and on name
towns or anything. He got jumped by my hometown by
guys I didn't even know. But he found out that
I was from my hometown. And you know, we had
a great time at this party. I met a bunch
of new people and we were you know, I was

(01:02:58):
nice to meet you. We gotta go then, and uh
he was waiting outside for me and he was like
having me pinned out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
And I was walking back.

Speaker 10 (01:03:06):
To the to the car, and he came up and
asked me where I was from, and I told where
I was from. I said, yes, you know, and he
popped me in his mouth, knocked me down, yeah, busting
my lip.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
I got back up and I started, you know, I
started fighting him, you know.

Speaker 10 (01:03:21):
And it wasn't he said, he got scared and pulled
a knife out, but he started to fight, you know,
and and uh, I ended up with losing that fight.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
You know, you know, he's just swinging. You know, I'm
not like a trained karate man or something. You know,
I was just swinging. I just it's you know, had
adrenaline at eighteen. It's like ah.

Speaker 10 (01:03:40):
And then I didn't even know I got stabbed, and
my buddy came and broke up the fight and pushed
me back in his hands full of blood. And then
that was like the beginning of.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
The ride to the hospital. So what happens.

Speaker 10 (01:03:55):
So we're in the country and my my, my buddy,
he's now firefighter to paramedic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
He was always trying to be a firefighter paramedic. So
he was like, all drive, We're going to hospital.

Speaker 10 (01:04:03):
So he's like he knew the back road. So we're
like screaming down his back roads. Girls are screaming and crying,
calling nurses and like. So the nurse through the phone
was like, you know, compressing the wounds. Took my shirt off,
blood everywhere you got stab what part of your belly's
eleven inches across the center.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
Oh, he stuck it and then went across and I got.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Two right on the left side.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Wow, So you're bleeding pretty hard.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Yeah, No, we were bleeding, and we were bleeding.

Speaker 10 (01:04:32):
The first hospital we stopped at didn't have emergency room.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
It was like an animal hospital.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
At the time.

Speaker 10 (01:04:41):
They didn't have emergency room. So we had to drive
I don't know, fifteen miles to UC Davis and we
got there and they didn't even know what do me that, like,
you there's not ever a feeling you want to go
through when you're like going into like the sports er
and like there's a guy in the football pads like
busted arm and like, you know, hold. It was just

(01:05:04):
kind of very calm injuries and where I busted to the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Door, like you know, like he's dad.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
It's just blood everywhere.

Speaker 10 (01:05:11):
Like I couldn't imagine being in the lobby and be like,
oh my god, this guy comes in here, this blood everywhere.
And so they kind of did some tests on me,
like for visual and like asking me like you know,
they wanted me to pee and try to see if

(01:05:32):
there's blood in the her and to kind of see
if they got any internal organs.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
And I couldn't pee. She was kind of cute nurse,
and I was.

Speaker 10 (01:05:42):
Like she's just sitting there like pee and I'm like,
I can't pee right now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Like stop it stop, I'll be fine.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (01:05:51):
And so they sent me off Sacramento and ambulance and man,
I was it's and then you know, going from that
like kind of sports and you know, saying that they
always get anybody will get bad things and you know
are but when you got to a big city like Sacramento, man,
there it was people were shot. One girl was to
the side of me got chopped up by a bull propeller.
One girls just grabs a curtain, says how Bay how man.

(01:06:16):
It was like literally, like I said, I was in
like this is where it goes down, like what you
see on you know, durrama hospital movie or you know
television shows. And and the doctor was like, oh no,
there's stab victorm, you know. And he like put his
glove on, put like put his fingers inside of my
wounds and and just kind of felt muscle, you know,

(01:06:36):
you couldn't like fill in my organs.

Speaker 7 (01:06:38):
And uh.

Speaker 10 (01:06:39):
They stitched me up and then the next day I
was out and I had to have a nurse come
to the house and pack my We stitched them an
inch apart, so.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
We'd pack alcohol gauze.

Speaker 10 (01:06:51):
Down in the wound, so it grew from the bottom up,
so you know, you didn't just have a big hole
inside your stomach.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
So we had to pack wound for I don't know.
It was a long time ago, but.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
Would you ever do to that dude or get whatever
happened to that dude jump back?

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
No, he still happening in town. They're still paid half
in each other every month. You know.

Speaker 10 (01:07:16):
He uh, he got away with he has a phony
and he got away with I saw with the dead weapon,
a deadly weapon. And uh, two years later, you know,
I was I needed some money and there.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Was some he he had got a job, and he
offered to pay the restitution.

Speaker 10 (01:07:38):
And uh, in all realness, like he looked at me
like he messed up, Like that's I didn't talk to him,
but you know, it was just kind of that moment because.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
I'm like, you know what, we're all young.

Speaker 10 (01:07:52):
You know, I'm just thankful to be a lie basically
and not peeing out of a bag for the rest
of my life, you know, because there was that option,
and uh.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
I don't know, wait, what's that option? I don't know.

Speaker 10 (01:08:03):
Well, you got you get cut cut right, you know,
and your your center and your all your organs. I
don't know that that's that's that's what somebody told me.
But that may not even be true. But regardless, I survived.
I didn't die. Nothing really bad happened. I got big
scars across my stomach and I was, you know, I
was getting ready to move to Nashville. You know that
that would help out with the whole move, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
And uh, he paid me like.

Speaker 10 (01:08:28):
I don't know, eight or nine grand and and uh
I got to keep it and he he got to
live a life of a felony, which isn't easy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
And but I did, you know it was no. I
think we both moved on and he's looking for better things,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
And that guy's name is Dirks Bentley.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
And that's how I met Dirk's Bentley.

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
And that's the rest of the story.

Speaker 8 (01:08:52):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. Welcome back to
the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Bred Eldridge got super vulnerable and talked about the terrible
anxiety that he had early in his career.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
It's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
We were talking about Kip with the phones and I've
Kip and I have a friendship that has grown over
first fighting lot and then like, hey, we're both weird
introverted people. Let's probably be on the same team we had.
We had the same team talk at a coffee shop
one morning. Our relationship had gotten actually really good since then,

(01:09:30):
so I say, this is a friend.

Speaker 4 (01:09:31):
But Kip and I were sitting and I think I
do Kip does?

Speaker 12 (01:09:35):
I don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Probably you because you're an artist a heart. We have
huge insecurity issues. Oh yeah, like we may be these
larger than life characters on stage behind the microphone, but
really it all comes down to we're searching for some
kind of love. Oh yeah, we're in some place searching
for some kind of love. And Kip and I were
talking about watching a crowd and for me, if I'm
doing a stand up, I can't look at faces because
if I see someone's face and they're not laughing, I go, oh,

(01:09:56):
I must be bombing.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
So I just look at foreheads.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
I can't look at face and kept we'll go oh,
I'll see someone not having a good time, and it'll
throw me. It'll completely throw me from doing a show.
Do you will you look down and see people not
feeling it? And or do you let that affect you? Oh?

Speaker 13 (01:10:11):
Yeah, I've had times where it really affected me that
my my thing that I've you know, you have certain
fans that are I almost always have fans that I
know are going to be repeat fans, like for different shows,
and if I know out they're there, and if I'm
feeling like if I see some people that I don't
know if they're really totally into it, it kind of messes
me up. I I because I struggled with that for

(01:10:35):
a while. Then I would start looking at my fans
that are my diehard fans that are always there for me,
and I see them singing the words, I'm like, oh man,
they care, they care, and so I try to That's
how I've tried to figure out how to shift it,
and that's helped me. But yeah, that's that is That's
a weird feeling because you're given everything of yourself and
you know, and somebody you want every single person to

(01:10:57):
feel as passionate about it as you are, and the
truth is it's never gonna be. No, there's never been
an artist that can do that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
And I do feel it's a bit unfair for us
as people, if on the stage performing to judge people
based on just their outward reactions, because if I'm comparing
myself or yourself. We're watching a movie. Unless they're watching
the same movie, we may react absolutely different to watching
old school.

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
I may be laughing out loud. You may be enjoying
it the same amount, but laughing in a different way.
You keep it outside, but that doesn't mean somebody is
not enjoying it as much as the other person. But
when we step away, it's so easy for us. You
can't disconnect from that in a show. But we just
feel like, oh.

Speaker 13 (01:11:36):
I haven't thought about that, and that's that's really good
to talk about that because it's a it's the hardest
thing to explain to anybody, and there's so many people
that get And I've never really talked about this, but
I used to get nervous about I used to be.
I'm I was born a warrior, like worry, anxiety, all that,
and I so I used to I was never afraid

(01:12:00):
to go on stage. I'm not like I'd love to perform.
I'm actually the most comfortable doing that a lot of time.
But before it, I was like if I was worn out,
I'm a terrible sleep. I used to be a real
bad at sleeping all this stuff, and so I had
this little period where I was not sleeping much, and
then I would I'll get to the point where I
was about to go on stage and I would get
short of breadth.

Speaker 4 (01:12:19):
I think I was going to pass out.

Speaker 13 (01:12:21):
I have because I thought, Okay, well I'm gonna I'm
going to fail in front of all these people. I'm
going to pass out or something, which you know, you're
not going to dive from passing out in front everybody,
and I'm probably not going to pass out. But I
was telling myself that. So I was learning that. So
I had all these these things and all these things
because you're about to go give all yourself and you
don't want to see yourself fail. And I don't have

(01:12:41):
that anymore, really, I mean, you still have some days
you're like, God, I'm so tired.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
You know.

Speaker 13 (01:12:46):
Sometimes you're headlining at festival or show at eleven o'clock
at night.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
I wake up at seven o'clock, so you have the whole.

Speaker 13 (01:12:52):
Day to think about a show, and I've had to
try to forgure out ways keep your mind busy. You're
here for a reason. You're you're playing this show because
people are coming.

Speaker 4 (01:13:00):
Here to love you.

Speaker 13 (01:13:01):
But it is it's a complete mind game. As performer
he gives. You know, it's a major sacrifice throughout that
all day to you to be up there for an
hour and a half and you and you have to
get your mind right to that point of the show,
athlete even.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
Yeah, you know, it's a lot of downtime. You got
your ninety minutes to perform, and it all is inside
that ninety minutes.

Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
And then if you don't, you got a lot of
game tape to watch the next time.

Speaker 4 (01:13:27):
And you're going to think about it. You can't not
think about it. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
So you talk about sleeping.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
I've had real bad issues with sleeping, and a lot
of mind comes from a mile PTSD stuff. I got
jumped and robbed a gun point, stuff like that. You know,
anxiety issues from that. What's your issue with sleeping?

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
What was it?

Speaker 4 (01:13:47):
Anxiety?

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Just right about? What do you know?

Speaker 4 (01:13:50):
Dumb stuff?

Speaker 13 (01:13:51):
I mean, you know, I thought, honestly, I so, I
mean I tried everything. I mean I would try and medicase,
I would try whatever it was to try to get sleep.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
Never like a problem with it. I would just you know,
try to figure it out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Stay sick. I stayed sick. Oh yeah, constantly run down.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
I wasn't getting it.

Speaker 13 (01:14:10):
And if if you feel like you're never going to
get out of it. And it's not like I still
don't have bad nights to sleep, but i'd sleep great last night.
But it doesn't mean like you know, if you tell
yourself you're not going to you're not a good sleeper.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
You're not going to be a good sleeper, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Like a lot of the time thing where you close
your eyes and you go fall asleep. Right now, I
get five hours twenty seven, oh yeah, thirty seconds.

Speaker 13 (01:14:30):
Yeah, then you then then another hour goes by, and
then I got this.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
Four hours twenty seven and thirteen seconds.

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
And so I tried the I tried antidepressants for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
I tried.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Xan x, the alpaslem for a while. I've tried I've
tried everything but smoking weed. And I I was talking
to front even today because I have I've never drank
alcohol or smoke weed, but I want to do both.
But I just know I would do all the both.
Like if I started, I would do it, and I wouldn't.
I would be like a I'll take that and I'll
have all of that and go ahead and give me
the rest of all that that's just how I live

(01:15:04):
my life or everything. But I went to the dentist
today just to get a fix. They put a temporary
on and they gave me the laughing gas.

Speaker 4 (01:15:10):
Yeah. I got so high.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
And then I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
I don't relax have trouble relaxing this in general. I
got so high. I became so relaxed. I started to
have these really deep emotional sharing within my self thoughts,
and I'm like, man, if this is what it's like
to get high, I gotta do this.

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
And I felt like I could go to sleep or
I could stay awake. I just felt great. So I
was talking to a friend and she was like, you
should try the gummies. But I hear a snoopg talk
about this stuff and he's like, don't eat it. He's like,
you can't control it if you If you eat it,
you can't control it.

Speaker 4 (01:15:48):
Man. I just don't like eating.

Speaker 12 (01:15:51):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
I don't like hot this, smoking anything. It seems like
it would just be pain on the lawn. A cigarettes, yeah,
I actually never re smiled a cigarets. That that heat
going into the I don't like I don't drink coffee. Yeah,
because I mean I've tasted coffee once. No way, I'm
not against coffee. Yeah, I mean it's not a moral

(01:16:13):
church of coffee. You have issues with sleeping. But also
sounds like when you talk that have you been in therapy,
because you sound like, Okay, I get it because again
I'm just looking.

Speaker 13 (01:16:22):
At I'm like, I'm very and I've I've just recently
started becoming very open with it because I mean, I
feel like everybody should go to therapy. Honestly, me too.
I mean it's it's for me too. And it's not
like you're not crazy, you're not whatever. We all have anxieties,
we all have worries, we all have I mean, it's human,

(01:16:43):
the most human thing we were.

Speaker 4 (01:16:46):
This is how we're built.

Speaker 13 (01:16:48):
And for me, it got to a place where I
was like, I'm not I'm really good at covering that up.
And I wasn't like depressed or like major. I was
just always worried about stuff and it totally throws your
body out of a whack and so I was I
was like, I'm tired of this. So I actually got
into mindfulness. So meditating really helped me a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:17:07):
You able to do that, I have trouble. It's hard.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
I have trouble.

Speaker 4 (01:17:10):
It's hard. I mean I've been doing over like a
year and.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
A half, likesidental, like what kind of meditation, just like
mostly just sign like so I did the apps, So
I did. I started with headspace. Tell me about that.
I've done the sleep app. I haven't done any meditation.

Speaker 13 (01:17:25):
Head Space is great. It just kind of walks you through.
It's not like one of those things where you're feeling
very sleepy or you know whatever. It's very much like,
all right, now, take your now. No, you might feel
yourself your mind wandering and having all these thoughts throughout
the day whatever, I'll take it back to the breath
and so you you switch your focus back to the
breath and you just focus on your breath. It's pretty

(01:17:46):
much just training your brain to see thoughts is just thoughts,
because we have thousands of thoughts every day, all of them,
almost all of them are crap. They're just worthless, you know.
I mean you can tell I've studied a lot of this,
but it is the truth. I have so many thoughts.
So I think the most that it's taught me is
to not sweat that stuff as much, not that I
don't still.

Speaker 4 (01:18:05):
I mean you still. You never get rid of anxiety.

Speaker 13 (01:18:08):
You just have a different relationship with and I think
through a lot of different things, I've I've got a
different relationship with it. And I used to not be
able to enjoy tour and all that kind of stuff
near as much because you'd always be worrying about worrying
about feeling this way. Then you're feeling more that way,
and it's like it doesn't have to be that way.
And so I think now to more, I've got uh
And I mean this is really one of the most

(01:18:29):
open I've ever really talked about it, But I've got
way more. I want to help other people realize that
happens to everybody. It's not a big deal. It sucks,
but it's real and you can you can get through that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
So you know why it sucks? Is it not enough
people talk about it? I know I grew up like
you in a really small town. Therapy wasn't a thing.
Oh no, it was more like you got to pay
the bills, So therapy doesn't matter. You know, when you're
trying to buy Manwich, there's not money for therapy or
even to know that mental illness is like a real
life thing. And I'm not even a mental I'm just
talking about any sort of therapy like it. Just so

(01:19:03):
I remember going and I was like, this is my insurance,
so I can actually go talk to someone. And it
was talking to someone who did not have a bias.
Yes that would judge zone call you not only on
your crap, but also tell you when things were good,
so you could trust both. And we're both in a
position too, where we're in a creative space where if
we're doing well, there are a lot of people tell
us how cool we are, and it's it gets harder

(01:19:25):
and harder to separate. I wrote my new book that
came out of this week. I have a whole thing
about trusting a certain few people that will tell you suck.
But everybody will tell you suck. But if you find
the people that you trust to tell you suck, whenever
they tell you that you do really good, you can
believe them. And that's the hardest thing. It's not hard

(01:19:46):
to find somebody to tell you suck. Trust me. All
I got is go to Facebook right now, and I
got a thousand people telling me and we naturally search
for that stuff too. It falls right in our lap
or just stare at it, and people are loving us
all around us, but we're looking at this little angry
monster and that we're like, what's up? But you can
you came to see me. But if you find someone
that can say, hey, I don't know about that. But

(01:20:09):
then when they do say, oh, I do know about this,
you trust that good because they're able to tell you
whenever they feel it's not good. I found that with therapy.
Then I've started to be able to find it with friends.
But I had to find it with me first before
it was anything else. I had to go in and
trust the process a bit, a little, only a little,
trust that it was the process.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
But therapy changed me.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
And listen, I'm still in my thirties, I'm single, I'm married,
I got no kids. Like I struggle with relationships and
trust I do. Yeah, bridges raise his hand too. But
for me, it showed me that I'm struggling. Before I
just didn't know, like what's the problem? Why am I?
But now I see there's a struggle and the first
and best way to talk about this. And as you

(01:20:51):
were saying these words, the words that I hear all
the time because I read about it, and I go
to therapy, I'm like, oh, he's had some sort of
self reflection in some way, and I like that, and
I commend you that.

Speaker 13 (01:21:00):
Yeah, well the same here, And I think I think
it's it's up to you know, each of us to
try to get everybody to look at that and just
say you're not crazy for going to get help from
orders telling or even going through a friend or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:21:15):
I mean, does it have to normal?

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
You're normal, You have this stuff, totally normal, I mean,
but nobody talks about it, so then you feel isolated
and alone when you're feeling these well, I'm the.

Speaker 13 (01:21:25):
Only person that I just feel like, no, try hundreds
of millions of people.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Nobody's post on Instagram, so it can't be real.

Speaker 13 (01:21:31):
Yeah, that's a feeling of it because they know, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Walker Hayes talks about trying to make ends meet early
on and what helped him stay motivated when times are tough.
So you you decide we're moving to Nashville just from
one night of playing in front of people.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
Yeah, it was pretty wild.

Speaker 14 (01:21:50):
I mean, I played, had such a great time. I
called Lanny said, I don't want to move to Nashville
to sing that was it?

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
So I want to go, what's her action? Uh? You know,
I think she was pretty adventurous.

Speaker 14 (01:22:03):
You know, at the time we were kids excited about
you know, getting out of town. She was with it.
I mean, oddly enough, there was no second guessing on
her part.

Speaker 4 (01:22:14):
She was ready to go.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
And so what was your style back then?

Speaker 4 (01:22:17):
So my style back then? I remember two songs that
I played.

Speaker 14 (01:22:21):
One was sitting on the dock of the bay, and
then didn't Adobie Gray drift Away? Yeah, drift I guess
drift Away. And uh I only played like five songs.
I just played them over and over and so yeah,
I mean I was just gonna come up and sing,
you know, move to Nashville, try to be a rock.

Speaker 4 (01:22:40):
Star, make it. Yeah I did.

Speaker 14 (01:22:43):
I was dumb enough to be like, yeah, I'm gonna go,
you know, and figure this out.

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
Be famous. I mean I knew nobody.

Speaker 14 (01:22:49):
We had a great time picking out our apartment and
stuff like that. Honestly, meeting with her parents, they were
really frightened and just thought I was nuts. You know,
this was not This was on such a whim and
the security that I had, you know, and mobile made
a lot more sense. To them and so yeah, I mean, man,

(01:23:10):
we just found an apartment, got married, and drove up here.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
So you move here? And what does one do when
you don't know anybody into town like Nashville and you
want to make music?

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
Like, what's the first step? You go outside?

Speaker 14 (01:23:20):
And man, I mean, as cliche as it sounds, the
absolute first thing I did was go sign up for
an open mic night at the Bluebird. I was I
don't remember exactly what number I chose, you know, to
get selected that night, But so you played the first
night you went. I came on a Monday night, stood
in the line, got selected. They were about to call

(01:23:43):
my name, but I realized that everybody in there was
playing songs that they had written, and I showed up
to play covers. So we left and then I came
back the next Monday with a couple of songs that
I wrote that week and then performed and it was.

Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
The same rush.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Know, so the first time you went, you end up
not playing.

Speaker 14 (01:24:02):
Well, I check it out, but you know, I wasn't
about to get up and play that.

Speaker 4 (01:24:06):
I was gonna play drift.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Away, give Me the Bee Boy Free? And what did
you write that you something? I wrote so so you
first time you don't do it. The second time you
go and you do it. What did you play? What
song you remember?

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
I do?

Speaker 14 (01:24:20):
I remember I played a song about as short of
a time period as we had been married. I learned
very quickly that when you bring up the in loss
that your significant other gets really pissed.

Speaker 4 (01:24:31):
And so I wrote a song about that.

Speaker 14 (01:24:33):
And it was kind of a joke, you know, a
funny song, and uh, I don't remember the title of it.
And I played too and I just remember the crowd reacting,
you know, they laughed, they had a great time, and
they went nuts.

Speaker 4 (01:24:45):
It's a real supportive crowd, and the Bluebergs.

Speaker 14 (01:24:47):
They're there to hear the writer performing their songs, so
they went nuts. And it was not I didn't like
get a deal or anything quick.

Speaker 4 (01:24:54):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Did you feel like after that night, though, that you
had submitted a little more in your head, like I
can do this.

Speaker 4 (01:25:01):
Uh?

Speaker 14 (01:25:02):
I didn't really think about whether I could or not.
I just did, you know what I'm saying. And I
also it was like a drug, I mean honestly, but
since then, I haven't stopped writing songs. It's just I
fell in love with that that conceiving the idea, putting
it together, playing it for somebody, getting their reaction, moving

(01:25:25):
on to the next one. You know, my favorite song
is always the one I'm working on right now, and
that's kind of how it been since then. It just
it pretty much consumes my life and has since then.

Speaker 4 (01:25:36):
So how long.

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
Until you get and I'm assuming you're getting into publishing
deal first, which is what happened to they pay you
to write songs. How long did it take from you
playing that bluebird till you getting a publishing deal?

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
So had I had a day job.

Speaker 14 (01:25:47):
I booked motivational speakers at Premiere Speakers Bureau in Franklin.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
Like what motivational speakers ran through in Franklin.

Speaker 4 (01:25:55):
A lot of right.

Speaker 14 (01:25:56):
Wing conservatives, old Steelers player Rocky Bleier, a couple of authors,
Oliver North and the guy Sean Hennity. We booked them.
Uh some of those were exclusive. Sorry again trying to
get rid of that tic.

Speaker 4 (01:26:13):
Uh but yeah, just I booked them and uh lost.

Speaker 14 (01:26:17):
I actually lost my job in a year and then
I got a pub deal. So it took me a
year and a couple of months to secure a pub deal.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
So in that year, you're just writing and sending songs
to people going, hey you check it out.

Speaker 4 (01:26:30):
No, in that year I was working, you know, that
was No. Nine to five.

Speaker 14 (01:26:34):
My clientele was West Coast event planner, so I got
to show up a little bit later and stay a
little longer. But I was writing songs while I was working,
you know, on my computer, just loading it up. And yeah,
I mean playing open mic nights anybody I could ever
get my songs in front of. Obviously I was trying
to do that, playing all the local you know, songwriter

(01:26:56):
nights that I could. And yeah, I wasn't really comparing
myself to other people. I just love, like I said,
I loved, loved, loved writing, I mean obsessed with writing.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
So you write and you start to get paid to write.
And what did your first cut?

Speaker 4 (01:27:13):
Shoot? Man?

Speaker 14 (01:27:14):
I mean, my my first pub deal actually got me
a record deal first.

Speaker 4 (01:27:19):
I mean I didn't get a cut.

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
So your pub deal got you a record deal first?
Is this the Keith Urban Demo story? No, that's that's capital.
That's the second deal.

Speaker 14 (01:27:28):
The first pub deal I ever got was from a
neighbor heard me messing around on the porch. He said, man,
I really like what you do. I'm gonna take you
to introduce you to two or three people. He brought
me into town. I met two big time producers Franklin.
In Franklin, here's your porch, here's me on the porch.

Speaker 4 (01:27:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (01:27:47):
He's like, dude, I really love your voice. Did you
write that? I'm like, yeah, you want to hear some more?
And up I wrote a song about his kid, whose
name is Hogan, which that was a business move right there.
I was like, dude, if I write somebody's kid, really,
you know, hooked me up. So he takes me into town,
introduced me to introduces me to Scott Hendricks, David Malloy,

(01:28:08):
and a guy named Christy DiNapoli. And Christy wanted to
sign me to a pub deal. The other two wanted
to maybe cut some sides and do the shoppy thingy
and I wasn't really ready for that. I just wanted
to write, you know, really bad. I wanted to get
paid to write songs, and at that time I only
had one kid, so I didn't have to make that
much money. And so anyway, Christy signed me under a

(01:28:31):
guy named Buddy Killing, who's gone now but great. First
publisher to have learned a lot from that guy and
Alison Jones. I know this is the industry, but signed
me at Mercury.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
And so you get a publishing a deal and a
record deal basically at the same time.

Speaker 14 (01:28:47):
Well, I got a pub deal and then we worked
on it, you know, and he had cut some sides
there and then they shot me and then got me
my first record development deal.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
So when you get signed to a development deal, what
do they start doing with you? Where do they develop?

Speaker 14 (01:29:01):
So the development deal basically got me James Stroud, great producer.

Speaker 4 (01:29:07):
He cut some sides on me.

Speaker 14 (01:29:08):
So what we did is just accumulate songs, kept writing
for a little while, chose the best ones, went in
the studio, cut them with an excellent band. So that
was my first experience with that, you know, And of
course we came home with five songs. I thought I
was gonna be Garth Brooks, were you I sounded like him? Yeah,
it sounded better than Now. I was not Garth Brooks.

(01:29:29):
I had some great stuff, you know, looking back, I
think some of those sides were good.

Speaker 4 (01:29:34):
But there was a.

Speaker 14 (01:29:36):
Falling out within the company and it wasn't long till
I was off that that labeled me and that that
deal expired pretty quick.

Speaker 4 (01:29:44):
So you're on. Did you put a record out? I didn't.

Speaker 14 (01:29:47):
I cut five sides, literally celebrated the cutting.

Speaker 4 (01:29:51):
My first five songs. You cut five songs. Yeah, I'm
going We're beside myself and this stuff sounds so great.

Speaker 2 (01:29:58):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:29:58):
We finished those in a December.

Speaker 14 (01:30:00):
I got a call in January saying that James Stroud
was gone from the label and that they he had
parted with co you know, head People, and Alison Jones
was leaving and I wasn't.

Speaker 4 (01:30:13):
I wasn't on the label anymore. But the label stayed.
Label stayed.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
Yeah, and you never put out a single?

Speaker 4 (01:30:19):
No, never put out a single. Did you tell a
publishing deal? I did? Okay, still writing.

Speaker 14 (01:30:24):
Still writing, and still still still trying to get outside cuts,
but did not get outside cuts.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
So you have to go to another try to get
how long until you get signed to a different label.

Speaker 14 (01:30:35):
So after that it took me two years to get
another label.

Speaker 4 (01:30:40):
That is this when Urban here's your This is.

Speaker 14 (01:30:42):
When Autumn House, a friend of mine, pitched the song
for Keith Urban. Keith Urban did not take the song,
but the A and R rep at Capitol Autumn House said,
I like this guy singing, I like this writing style.
You know, who is this kid? And they said it's
Walker Hayes, you know. And within a couple of months

(01:31:05):
I had a deal in Capital. A lot of my
deals came pretty quick, you know, deals are hard to get,
but my first two just kind of fell into my lap.
I mean they just kind of came out of nowhere
for me.

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
So you get a deal, you start to cut songs
again or to use your old song.

Speaker 4 (01:31:22):
Oh.

Speaker 14 (01:31:22):
Man, when I got a deal at Capital, I was writing.

Speaker 4 (01:31:25):
You go through the producer search, you know.

Speaker 14 (01:31:28):
I was on Capital two years probably before we even decided,
you know, to try a single.

Speaker 1 (01:31:34):
You had been signed for two years before you put
a song out.

Speaker 4 (01:31:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think I've been a Capital around that time.
So frustrating. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was.

Speaker 14 (01:31:42):
I mean we were looking for the right producer. We
tried some, we cut some. They just didn't didn't blow
our minds.

Speaker 4 (01:31:50):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
So then you have your first song. What's your first thingle.

Speaker 4 (01:31:53):
My first single was pants?

Speaker 2 (01:31:55):
All right?

Speaker 4 (01:32:03):
I like that look you're giving you by write that
I did. I wrote it for my wife my cringe.

Speaker 14 (01:32:12):
I don't know, man, you know, I just hear it,
and uh, it just doesn't sound you know, it doesn't
sound that great.

Speaker 4 (01:32:21):
I just don't.

Speaker 14 (01:32:21):
I don't hear it like I did then when when
I heard it then, I just I just thought, this
is gonna be amazing. And I don't know, I just
hear it now and it just the Maybe I've gotten
better at writing, you know, and I.

Speaker 4 (01:32:36):
Can just see the holes in there.

Speaker 14 (01:32:39):
But yeah, I cringe, just like hearing myself on a
answering machine.

Speaker 4 (01:32:50):
How the single do? I have no idea?

Speaker 14 (01:32:53):
The song was added heavily, you know, right off the back,
and uh, you know, I saw success coming my way
quick and h then it just hit a wall and uh,
some people were slow to pick it up, and it
went to thirty eight, and eventually, you know, Mike Dungan

(01:33:13):
and Capital pulled it and they decided to go with
another one shortly after that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
What song was?

Speaker 4 (01:33:20):
After that one?

Speaker 14 (01:33:20):
They went with a song called why Wait for Summer?
And it did not do as well those pants.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
If you have two singles that didn't work, did they
drop you or are they? We're gonna work on some
other stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:33:31):
So we chilled out for a long time.

Speaker 14 (01:33:33):
You know, I got put on the back Burner and
I sat for a long long time, and man, honestly,
just to give Capital some credit, I mean they believed,
I mean, they believed hardcore and they stuck their neck
out for me. I didn't fully understand, you know, the
need for the machine. I didn't know how the biz

(01:33:55):
really worked, you know at that time. Uh, you know,
there was a little bit of arrogance. I'm not the
most coachable human being on the planet, and that kind
of you know, shot me in the foot back then.
But yeah, we sat for a long time. I continue
to just write and write and try to give them

(01:34:16):
that one, you know that they felt confident, you know,
if you're gonna go three deep, that third one, I
mean that's your hell Mary right there, you know, especially
if the first two have flopped.

Speaker 4 (01:34:29):
So I fought and fought.

Speaker 14 (01:34:30):
You know, to write and to get that that song,
the one, and man just couldn't find it, and.

Speaker 4 (01:34:39):
You know, eventually got dropped.

Speaker 14 (01:34:42):
And uh yeah, I mean that was that was the
beginning of some dark some dark times right there.

Speaker 1 (01:34:48):
So you get dropped every second label. Yeah, what year
was that, you.

Speaker 14 (01:34:51):
Know, let's see, it's twenty seventeen, sixty fifteen. For probably fourteen,
beginning fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:34:57):
So you get dropped in twenty fourteen, So what do you.

Speaker 4 (01:34:59):
Do well at that period?

Speaker 14 (01:35:03):
I think I have four kids, So I'm still not
I'm still not, uh truly buried in finance, financial woes.
But I had a pub deal. You know, I'm still
my my publishers. That's one thing that's that I've always
had as a pub deal, publishers that believe that I
can get outside cuts.

Speaker 4 (01:35:22):
You know. So at that time, I didn't.

Speaker 14 (01:35:25):
I wouldn't say I just shut the artist thing down,
but I wrote, man, I aimed and aimed to get
outside cuts. You know, I wanted outside country cuts. I
wanted these mainstream artists, uh to to you know, I
just knew somebody who's gonna cut one of my songs,
It's gonna be huge, kind of solidify me as spot
in that writer community.

Speaker 4 (01:35:47):
And uh, I.

Speaker 14 (01:35:48):
Eventually did get a cut from Rodney Atkins. Uh he
cut one of my songs called Touching Feet, and uh
it was you know, it was a great motivation, you know,
to keep on writing.

Speaker 4 (01:36:03):
Didn't end up being a single, But hey.

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
What about this here a Cold Fort song, dirty.

Speaker 4 (01:36:08):
Side dude, I love this song.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
This is my jams.

Speaker 14 (01:36:11):
You write it, Yeah, you're on Coult. Yeah he featured me,
so you wrote we wrote it together. Yeah, I'm super
appreciative feature.

Speaker 4 (01:36:23):
I'm talking about the perfect girl. Man, I'm gonna tell
you everywhere stopped looking at the magazine's head on out.
So you're writing, you're out.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
You don't have artists he all right, which you probably
still want even though you're you still want to be
the artist, right, but you do you want to be
the writer. You talk about having dark times like your mind,
just like they.

Speaker 14 (01:36:41):
Tell you what the darkest period I ever experienced here
in Nashville was past these cuts.

Speaker 4 (01:36:49):
You know, you get a couple of cuts.

Speaker 14 (01:36:51):
And I'm still I'm not able to I mean, I'm
barely supporting this, you know what I'm saying. The money
is not just rolling in from from these types of cuts.
I'm I'm not having hit singles, which is kind of
what you gotta have, you know nowadays to thrive as
a writer, you gotta have one every now and then.

Speaker 4 (01:37:08):
I'm loving what I'm doing.

Speaker 14 (01:37:10):
I mean, i feel like I'm getting better and better
and so much closer to dialing it in, you know,
with with what artists need and what they want and
getting those outside cuts. But I'm playing at Pucket's boat
House and money gets real tight. I'm talking seriously tight,
and uh, I don't really like to ask for help.

Speaker 4 (01:37:31):
And I had toyed with.

Speaker 14 (01:37:33):
You know, getting kind of a second gig, and I
remember this this night I will never forget.

Speaker 9 (01:37:40):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:37:40):
I'm playing Puckets boat House.

Speaker 1 (01:37:42):
Which, by the ways, it's like a restaurant in a
stage for people. I just so, it's like a very
famous Nashville Southern food restaurant and there's a stage on
as well.

Speaker 14 (01:37:53):
Right, And so what I what I was doing is,
you know, I didn't have an artist deal, but I
want to keep performing so that the Annie Marshall at
Pucket's so always so gracious to me giving me a gig,
and I'm playing for tips, and what I would do
is play an hour and then host an open mic
night just for the community.

Speaker 4 (01:38:11):
I wanted to meet new writers and.

Speaker 14 (01:38:12):
Stuff and kind of do what people did for me
in my first couple of years here. So one night,
this guy comes and his name is Nick Canjre and
sweet sweet guy comes up wants to play at the
open mic night, and he just thinks, you know, he's
heard my songs on Rodney, my stuff on Colt. He

(01:38:35):
thinks I I'm like Elvis, you know, and he's just treating
me like it too. And he mentions at one point
in the night that he worked at the tire center
at Costco, and I was looking for a job at
night so I could continue writing during the day. And
so it was just a humbling moment to kind of

(01:38:55):
be like, Hey, while you're getting my autograph, do you
know any you know, is there any openings at Costco?
You know, are they looking for people that stock stuff
overnight and stuff? And he hooked me up and that's
how I got a job at Costco. But it was
just I mean, I don't know if embarrassing is the word,
but you know, it was just it was an interesting

(01:39:17):
moment that he saw me as kind of like an
influence on him musically. I was so happy, you know,
to meet me, and I was like, Hey, kind of
need a job, you know, I need some help.

Speaker 4 (01:39:30):
Can you can you hook me up?

Speaker 14 (01:39:32):
And so that was that that was a low a
low point for me, kind of having to ask for
help from that guy.

Speaker 1 (01:39:43):
Do you feel like you learned from it and appreciate
it even more afterward.

Speaker 14 (01:39:48):
Just through that experience with Costco experience, everything, everything that
is connecting with people now is pretty much about that
experience of my life. So yes, it's been truly beneficial.
I got a great perspective. Uh, you know what matters,
you know, what matter in life. That's kind of what

(01:40:10):
Leela's Stars is about. You know, I did a lot
of I did a lot of I don't know what
you say, like not soul searching, but you know we
uh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:40:23):
Interesting songs. This guy's just from the Car about your daughter.

Speaker 14 (01:40:33):
Yeah yeah, that song is about the thumb tacks that
she gave me to hold up the roof of my
Honda that I had at the time, and when my
roof was coming down, I lost it and I was
just cuzy. At that point in my life, I was
drinking a ton just to kind of cut the edge
off the heaviness and the burdens and stuff that I

(01:40:57):
was kind of up against with one to still chase
my dream, kind of thinking I was nuts. Pretty much.
Let everybody looking at us from the outside, I probably
thought I was nuts too. You know, I had all
the kids and I was still trying to do that
to take care of them when I could have, you know,
done a lot of other things that made a whole

(01:41:18):
lot of sense, you know, to take care of them.
But yeah, Leadless Stars is about those thumbtacks that she
let me borrow. And I was really bombed and frustrated
at the time. The roof coming out in my car
was one of those moments in your life where you're
looking up and you're like, you gotta be kidding me,
you know, like I need one fricking more thing, you know,

(01:41:41):
to carry right now. And one morning, when I was
about to clock in at Costco, I looked up and
I saw those thumbtacks and it just reminded me. Well,
first I thought of her face and just her smile
and how much fun she had putting those up, and
she just thought they were awesome, you know, they made

(01:42:02):
the car look incredible, and it was just an interesting
perspective at that time to remember, Hey, I got healthy kids,
I do have a job, I have two you know
what I mean, and I'm still able to write. My
wife never was unhappy, you know, I was really the
only one, uh that was unhappy, And so that was

(01:42:24):
a that was a great moment and got a cool
song out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
So you were drinking a lot. You don't drink it
all now, no sober, so you must have been drinking
a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:42:34):
Tend to go.

Speaker 14 (01:42:35):
I have to stop, man, I was, I mean, we want,
we want to talk about numbers. I mean I was, like,
I mean, I was drinking from I was drunk at Costco.
You know, obviously I was doing my work, working hard,
but I mean I was, I was drinking on on
breaks at Costco. You know, I go to the parking lot,

(01:42:56):
you know, and do that leave, go do a show
with Bluebird. You know, they were hiring me for shows.
I was still able to get some work out of them.
I drink before them, drink after them, drink while I wrote,
drive home, drink.

Speaker 4 (01:43:10):
Drink because you're sad man.

Speaker 14 (01:43:14):
Uh yeah, I think, you know, I think I was
just uh, I just didn't want to face.

Speaker 4 (01:43:23):
Not making it, you know, not not.

Speaker 14 (01:43:24):
Being able to to take care of everybody. You know,
It's almost like when you're drunk, Uh, those things aren't
as heavy, you know, they don't matter, I guess, and
drinking a little bit out of just insecurity and fear,
you know, I guess, uh, you know, just scared what.

Speaker 1 (01:43:46):
Was the point where you were like, Okay, I gotta
I gotta chill, dude.

Speaker 4 (01:43:48):
Me quitting is the weirdest story, I don't. You know.

Speaker 14 (01:43:51):
Hopefully at some point it will make sense where I
could kind of help other people and and and and
and explain it. But honestly, I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:44:00):
I think I was.

Speaker 14 (01:44:02):
I think my body just said to my brain, you
have to you have to quit. You know, we're working
and drinking that much. I woke up on a Saturday.

Speaker 4 (01:44:11):
I remember that.

Speaker 14 (01:44:12):
It was in October, football game day, me and football.
Not drinking just didn't ever happen. That hadn't happened since
I was probably like fifteen, I don't know, something crazy
like that.

Speaker 4 (01:44:23):
And I just didn't drink one Saturday. And I don't
even know why.

Speaker 14 (01:44:27):
I didn't like wake up and say, man, I gotta stop.
I just woke up, didn't drink that day, didn't drink
on Sunday. A couple of days turn into a week,
you know, and then it became this like challenge where
it was like I've gone this far, I want to
go backwards, you know. And I also kind of had

(01:44:49):
a little sobriety high. You know, when you quit drinking.
You've been drinking that much, your body feels really really
good once it gets over, you know, not craving just
to drink with all your might. But so yeah, now
I'm like, that was two octobers ago, so I'm a

(01:45:10):
year and almost a half.

Speaker 1 (01:45:12):
The funny thing is I don't drink. A guy there,
Walker doesn't drink. And when we go on tour this
beer like the writers like full of beer, and Walker
he just sits there. Yeah, it's like, Walker, I know
you don't drink, but if you know anybody that wants beer,
they can have it.

Speaker 12 (01:45:29):
Hang tight.

Speaker 8 (01:45:29):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow, and we're
back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
Cole Swindell talks about making the move in Nashville back
in two thousand and seven with the plans on being
a songwriter, but became a successful artist too. When you
first moved to town, though, you had to be pretty
intimidated to walk into some of these big rooms. Oh yeah, yes,
Like what was the first ride that you can think
about in your head? You walked into and there was
like a rider that you're like, man, I should be

(01:45:59):
right with this person, Like actually I'm writing with a
legend or somebody that I look up to.

Speaker 15 (01:46:03):
Yeah, I mean I remember one of the stories for me,
and it goes back to being a kid.

Speaker 1 (01:46:09):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:46:10):
I always say I fell in love with nineties country music,
and that's one of the guys, you know, Thomas Rhetz
that Rhett Akins was one of the artists I loved
as a kid. And I remember being in a room
the first time we ever read, the first wrote, the
first song we ever wrote was a song Thomas Rhett
to get me some of that, And that was just
that memory was my first like only in Nashville, Like

(01:46:31):
you grew up listening to a guy and the first
song you end up writing his son takes to the
top of the charts, and it's just that's a Nashville
story if I've ever heard one. But yeah, there's so many.
You know, you go from playing college bars and so
let me stop you.

Speaker 1 (01:46:47):
So you go on to write it. How long you've
been to Nasville when you wrote the song?

Speaker 2 (01:46:51):
Probably for four years or so.

Speaker 15 (01:46:54):
I had just gotten off the road from you know,
doing the T shirt thing. I had a publishing and
this was one of my this is the first time
in read everybody, we've been buddies. But that was a
man I was. That was a crazy story to go
from being a fan of his to write with him.
And it was just a straight car, right, me and
Rahet and Michael Carter, my producer.

Speaker 1 (01:47:12):
But yeah, so you walk in, you write this song,
and when you write a song, did you think maybe
it would be for you?

Speaker 13 (01:47:18):
Now?

Speaker 15 (01:47:18):
You know at this point like this is this all happened?
Before I got my record deal. I was writing songs
every single day, just wishing somebody would record them. And
this one, I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (01:47:28):
I loved it.

Speaker 15 (01:47:29):
I thought it was a great song, but I just
didn't have enough going for me. I didn't have the
artist thing going and I was willing for anybody when
I heard that Thomas Rhett loved it. You know, I've
always been the Thomas Repp fan and a Buddy hiss,
so I was just hoping to get a cut, you
know that those things that's what got me.

Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:47:44):
I think my chance that ultimately had a record deal
was getting other big time artists to record my songs.
And that was That's one memory of you know, you
go from playing songs written by people on the board
of sitting in a room with them and writing a song,
and that's just that's when you know you're you're living
the dream man, when you're getting to do do that.

Speaker 1 (01:48:02):
Is that the first song for you that was like, Okay,
I can make a little money, I can relax a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
Is that the first one of those?

Speaker 15 (01:48:12):
I mean, yeah, because I had I had, you know,
a couple of early cuts, like Scotty McCreery right after
he had won American Idol he want he recorded one
of my songs, water Tower Town, I wrote about my.

Speaker 2 (01:48:24):
Tea goes come with it.

Speaker 12 (01:48:25):
How do you have on this? But that's like we
do our research on this.

Speaker 4 (01:48:29):
This is water Tower down.

Speaker 15 (01:48:30):
Yeah, this is you know that's I wrote that about
my hometown. And I remember, you know, thinking that it
didn't end up doing you know, what we thought was
still that that let me know that, hey, I got
a chance in this town. And Scotty what a great
guy he is, and speaking to him that his new
song that you, Oh my god, that's that's one of
the best songs I've heard. I texted him as soon
as I heard it when when y'all were talking about it, and.

Speaker 12 (01:48:52):
It's just it's he's a great dude.

Speaker 15 (01:48:54):
So to have somebody like that to record one of
your songs about your town and and you know, some
of the same beliefs, it's just a cool moment for me.
But Thomas Rhad that was a different level.

Speaker 1 (01:49:03):
You know, Paula, let me stop you. So this is
Scotty McCurry song. This was the first one by an
artist that was somewhat successful that you're like, Okay, this
literally has a chance, and it was kind of really
a cool moment for you.

Speaker 15 (01:49:12):
It's huge, huge moment because I remember it was one
of those I learned a lesson because you know, when
I wrote this song, ultimately, you know, me and Luke
were close, and I was like, man, Luke's gonna love this.
I can just see him loving it. And I remember
I sent it to him and all he sent back
was yeah, man, I love that everybody knows your mom
and them lying, and that's all he said. And I
was like crushed. I was like, man, I was like oh,
I was like, that is not what I was wanted

(01:49:34):
to hear. And literally, you know, a month or two later,
Scotty wins American Idol and that song gets recorded and
it's on a platinum album, and it just I learned
that day that you know, you may think you got
it all planned out what but it's it's going to
work out how it's supposed to. And that one that
was my really first example of you know, I'm just
going to try to do the right thing, write songs
and they'll end up where they're supposed to.

Speaker 1 (01:49:55):
So water Tower Town, Scotty mccury cuts that and then
you just realized, Okay, I I can write these songs.

Speaker 4 (01:50:01):
Did you have the confidence before that?

Speaker 1 (01:50:03):
Was it like it's a matter of time or did
it take songs to hit before you started to realize
you could play in the league.

Speaker 15 (01:50:07):
You know, I would like to say I moved up
here thinking I was gonna be but you know, I
think you have to, you know, have something like that happen.
Have you know, you know, publishing companies, record label doing that.
That that means they believe in what you're writing. And yeah,
you do get confidence. I mean it's hard to have
confidence when you're writing all these songs and you know
they're not really getting any traction. But you just learned.

(01:50:29):
You know, that's why they say, you know, write every day,
because the more you do it, the better you get,
and it's just the chances are better you're going to
have a great song the more you write. And that
was I remember Dallas and some of my other writer
friends calling me and just saying that when that song
got recorded, like hey, congratulations, but don't stop like this
is this is where you got to show up with a

(01:50:51):
lot of people just say I've made it. And you
know that's I think that's what you got to do.
You got to keep going.

Speaker 4 (01:50:56):
Was that Do you think that'd be a big single?

Speaker 1 (01:50:58):
When you when you cut it, were you hoping, like man,
that this could be a number one hit? Is that
what you Is that what every every time you cut wanted?

Speaker 2 (01:51:04):
I mean, yeah, I.

Speaker 15 (01:51:05):
Think you're you're hoping that that's what? Uh you know,
but I think being around the business, you know how
hard it is to to to do that, to write.
There's so many great writers in this town. But yeah,
I think you're always wanting like and that that song
when it there's one thing for it to be.

Speaker 2 (01:51:19):
On the album.

Speaker 15 (01:51:19):
I mean, that's a huge album coming straight up. I
mean selling over a million copies these days, it's it's
hard unheard of and uh, pretty much but and uh
to have that. But then when it announced as a single,
I remember thinking that was my first single to country radio,
and I thought I didn't even know what to think. Man,
I mean that song here I wrote about you know
where I grew up, and and uh, you know, it

(01:51:39):
was hitting country radio and that just like I said,
either way, I mean that that was my first taste
of seeing how a song was doing and wondering what
was gonna happen with.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
It, and watching a charge watching it, yeah, watching the chart.

Speaker 15 (01:51:50):
And it's it's, uh, you know, that's that's just how
how you learn the business, I guess. And I'm just
glad that, you know, that song helped me, you know,
no matter how it did, it got me. Uh, it
gave me the confidence to keep writing and know that
how my songs are, you know, hopefully worthy of radio someday.

Speaker 1 (01:52:06):
All right, So after water Tower Town, what's the next
song you wrote? That you were like, Okay, this one
has a shot. Now, okay, like this one has a
shot like WaterTower Town had a little higher hopes, but
you're still happy about it. It made you feel confident
you could walk into a room. Then what'd you write? So?

Speaker 4 (01:52:27):
Well?

Speaker 15 (01:52:27):
I know, I wrote a song that that Chris Young
recorded after that, but then after I wrote wrote a
song for Luke Bryan called roller Coaster that I've heard of,
that one this is the one. I mean, yeah, this,
this was this didn't get me some of that, Like
those were almost around the same time, I feel like,
and you know, but this one was the one that

(01:52:50):
you know, just our history from you know, knowing Luke
and working for him to writing songs. And I mean
when we played him this, me and Michael Carter wrote
this one, we played it for him. It wasn't even
to pitch it to him. It wasn't to see if
he would record it with me and Michael. It was
the first song we'd kind of written together and we
had he had produced it how he wanted, and we
just want him to hear my voice on it to
see what he thought. And he freaked out, drove us

(01:53:12):
straight over to his producer's house and me and Michael
are sitting there like what is going on?

Speaker 2 (01:53:16):
Where that feeling is?

Speaker 15 (01:53:17):
That's one of a kind feeling when somebody you've looked
up to is about to I mean, it's freaking out
literally over a song like you've never seen them, you know,
you used to freak out over their songs like that,
and now here's something we wrote and to see him
and Jeff Stevens just you know, go crazy over this song.
I mean, it was one of the best, you know,
moments of my life, just knowing that man, this song, right,

(01:53:39):
that's it's one of those things. That's why we love songwriting,
is because to make somebody feel like that, and that's
you know, that's why I moved to Nashville because that's
how music, you know, it makes me feel.

Speaker 2 (01:53:48):
And that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:53:49):
But after no on that Astrard, let me hear.

Speaker 12 (01:53:50):
This, and now I'm wondering word going.

Speaker 4 (01:53:54):
I need to recut this too.

Speaker 15 (01:53:56):
I wish yeah, yeah, yeah, and you put your vocal
on in the jemo I got to see.

Speaker 2 (01:54:03):
I still have.

Speaker 15 (01:54:03):
I thought about that someday, you know, like maybe putting
out my own little uh like just the you know,
the the versions of my versions of the songs, because
I mean, that's what pretty much got me my you know,
when labels we were pitching my songs and they're like, what,
you know, why aren't you why can't you sing this song?
Or why wouldn't you sing this? And it just kind
of that gave me confidence too. It's like, man, maybe

(01:54:25):
I need to book a show, because you know, when
I moved here, I'd just been singing cover songs, playing
in bars, me and a buddy of mine. Acoustic no uh,
no big band or anything, but we just played country
covers and I'd gotten into the songwriting things. So I
moved here and fell in love with the.

Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
With the writing. Did you move here to be an artist?

Speaker 15 (01:54:41):
I mean, ultimately yes, but I knew that I was,
you know, I wanted to have my own songs, and
I you know, I had friends in the business that
was that said, you know, you need to if you
like songwriting and you're interested like you are.

Speaker 2 (01:54:51):
I mean I was looking up.

Speaker 15 (01:54:53):
I was more starstruck by the songwriters when I got
here because I you know, I had been on stage.
I loved entertaining, but I knew I didn't have the song.
I didn't I couldn't write a song like I wanted to.
And you know that's why I'm lived here and to
take three solid year and just focus on songwriting. I
mean that if that wouldn't have happened that way, I
wouldn't have had those songs for you know, when I
finally got my chance at a record deal. So that's

(01:55:13):
another situation where I thought I was gonna come up here.
I was ready to get a record deal, and I
would have had have screwed it up so fast. I mean,
it just happened that at the right time. But that
songwriting was definitely my my avenue.

Speaker 1 (01:55:25):
I think, so, you know, in this town and then
luckily during the show, I get to bring up all
the great songwriters. Yeah, you know, there becomes the coolest
songwriters of the moment. Did aren't artists yet, it may
never be, but it's like, you know, who's the coolest?
Were you for a while? That the coolest songwriter for
a minute?

Speaker 2 (01:55:43):
I don't think so. I don't.

Speaker 15 (01:55:46):
You know, I wouldn't think that. I would think that
I was a guy that people hopefully wanted to write
with a second time and.

Speaker 2 (01:55:51):
The third time.

Speaker 15 (01:55:52):
I think that's you know something my publisher, the people
that you know brought me up through the business. It
was like, you know, you got to have this town,
you know behind you wanting to write with you again.
I mean, you gotta you know, you gotta write the
best songs you can. And I think, uh, I never
felt like that I just felt like I started getting
some songs recorded and people heard my versions and it
was like a lot of artists now it's like, well man,

(01:56:15):
that's uh, you know, that's and that was about the
time that that you came along.

Speaker 1 (01:56:19):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:56:19):
It's it's crazy to think like it's all that happened. Uh,
and then I finally got my chance.

Speaker 1 (01:56:24):
So I it is crazy to think that you've really
only been an artist for about four and a half.

Speaker 15 (01:56:29):
Years, and that's what's something I think.

Speaker 2 (01:56:32):
You know, there's a ton of hits.

Speaker 15 (01:56:33):
Well thank you man, I'm on my It's crazy to
me from I mean, I met you during chilling It
and now I'm on my seventh single that is in
that amount of time. I mean, you know, we talked
a little bit of you. I don't know how you
measure success really. I think it's happiness. But I think
that if you look at what I've done, and I
can't I don't have anything to complain about it if
something doesn't go my way, I mean, look at look

(01:56:53):
at what's happened for me. And it takes some somebody
like your mama or whatever, you know, pointing that out.
It's like, you know, we all always in this. We
always want what's next, what's next? But man, you're right.
Four and a half years I couldn't have couldn't have
drawn it up any any better.

Speaker 1 (01:57:06):
And you hid from the internet at the same time.

Speaker 2 (01:57:08):
Oh my god, it's amazing. Here I'm gonna play chilling It.
I think I'm a story about this when I yeah,
I got my shame.

Speaker 4 (01:57:13):
So this song comes out by this dude. I don't
even know what this dude.

Speaker 1 (01:57:17):
He says, up a cooler to the studio, and I'm like,
let me see what this is. He set up a cooler,
Let me see what this is.

Speaker 4 (01:57:22):
Chilling it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:23):
And I remember listening to it my ears saying, I
was like, let me hear, let me hear this, set
up a cooler. I was like, I like the sound
of that times a little progressive but still country. And
I was like, I liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:35):
And I remember playing it and I know you. I
would never met, I know, but I had heard.

Speaker 15 (01:57:39):
I remember my mom telling me that you were playing
it like and that.

Speaker 1 (01:57:42):
Was and you texted me you said, my mom heard
the song in the radio for the first I.

Speaker 15 (01:57:45):
Had to get you know, of course, you know, I
just I was like, hey, some my label was like,
can you get me Bobby Bones, and my mom's freaking
out he played my song.

Speaker 2 (01:57:52):
I just want to thank you because at.

Speaker 15 (01:57:53):
That point, you know how to. I mean, somebody's got
to give you a chance, and that you know, when
you're a new artist and an artist, and I mean
putting out a new song anything, you got to have
people that believe in you. And I will never I
will never forget that the people that you know, you
met at the beginning that kind of gave you that shot.
I mean, from from you to my label to the.

Speaker 1 (01:58:14):
Cooler cool big cooler, like CD is a cooler of
the CD. I even listening to CD, I was like,
he said, a big old cooler up here.

Speaker 15 (01:58:21):
What am I gonna do with it? Well, at least
you like the song maybe better than the cooler sends cool.

Speaker 1 (01:58:26):
But I was like, well, let me let me listen
to the download it and then yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:58:30):
I got my shame.

Speaker 4 (01:58:31):
Long time as a jam.

Speaker 12 (01:58:33):
That crowd's what started.

Speaker 2 (01:58:34):
And I watched you at Stage Coach this year.

Speaker 1 (01:58:35):
Oh well yeah, we played the same day I played
we played before you.

Speaker 2 (01:58:39):
We don't worry.

Speaker 1 (01:58:39):
We're playing a peon times like we're playing like four
you were playing at dark whatever, and I was watching
you play the song and the whole crowd was still
just they were singing their brains out to the song.

Speaker 15 (01:58:49):
And that was my first single. I think that is
you know, people ask me buddies that are trying to
get record deals or whatever, it's like, you know, what
song should I you know, what's the first sing?

Speaker 2 (01:58:58):
And I don't.

Speaker 15 (01:58:59):
I don't know that as to that, but I just
think that if any other song I've had since then
would have been my first, it might not have broken
me through there like that one did. And that's that's
scary to think about. But that's, like I said, and
that's why I love writing songs. I've always listened to music,
and I think I'm a fan. I grew up a
fan of music and I still am. And I think
that's why I, you know, try to put myself on

(01:59:20):
their shoes and what would I want to hear? What
would you know? It's not always like that, but sometimes
you got to think about you know, hey, I'm just
like them too, So let's let's try to say some
of it's fun, some of us sad.

Speaker 1 (01:59:30):
But I wonder let me wonder out loud for a second.
I wonder because you put that song out and I
was like, I like the song and it sounds a
little different. I bet you you got some pushback for
that song. Yeah, I bet you did. Yeah, And now
it's just a song that there was a hit that
gets played as what they call a recurrent and nobody
thinks a thing about it. Oh yeah, in just four years,
you've seen it change from WHOA, this is crazy. I

(01:59:53):
bet you got some dad in't countries for that song.
Oh yeah, which is crazy to think right now, right
oh yeah, now yeah.

Speaker 15 (01:59:59):
But like I said, that's I guess that's always you know,
it's always gonna be a whole thing. And and you,
like you said, man I, that's the one thing about
being in positions like we're in.

Speaker 2 (02:00:09):
It's like you're opening stuff.

Speaker 15 (02:00:10):
You're opening yourself up to just get you know, people
that have you know, nothing other to do than just
you know, talk trash or whatever it is. But that's
you're gonna get pushed back about things. But I think
those are always the things that mean you're you're breaking
through and getting getting something done. And you know, not
everybody's gonna like that's the toughest thing for me is
I you know, I try to treat everybody how I

(02:00:31):
want to be treated. But everybody's not gonna like your music.
They're not gonna like every song. You're not gonna like me. Yeah,
it's like what they don't even know us, you know,
but it's.

Speaker 2 (02:00:40):
They don't know me.

Speaker 15 (02:00:40):
But you know, I uh, you got to understand that
you're putting yourself in that position. And I tell you what,
I think. We we got a lot more people that
do like us than do and that's to me, the fans,
I mean people that that's what you.

Speaker 2 (02:00:51):
Gotta focus on.

Speaker 1 (02:00:52):
And that let me wonder a lot again.

Speaker 15 (02:00:55):
I wonder.

Speaker 1 (02:00:55):
I wonder because something I've had to do in my life,
especially in the last six months to a year, is
if I get one hundred tweets, right, I'll zero in
on that negative one, yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:01:07):
And I'll be like, everybody hates me and this person
just rip me.

Speaker 1 (02:01:09):
But there are ninety nine positive tweets, and I would
always focus in and it would make me go, oh,
I'm so angry or I'm sad, or but what why
do we do that We should really make an effort
to appreciate those ninety nine.

Speaker 15 (02:01:23):
I'm not kidding. That is a great point, because you know,
that's that's being honest. If somebody says that they don't,
then I don't know. I guess they've got it figured out.
But it's just it's tough to see that something that
you know you love to do and you're doing you're
you're not out there, you know, doing what. I don't know,
you're doing the right that you're doing great things and
trying to do the right thing, and people just no
matter what.

Speaker 2 (02:01:42):
You just trying to do, just trying to do things.

Speaker 15 (02:01:44):
And they they're gonna, you know, they're not gonna like it.

Speaker 1 (02:01:46):
And we gotta focus on We gotta focus on the
ninety nine I got yeah, gotta focus They play this song,
talk about this one here. This is by Craig Campbell. Yeah,
Craig singing here.

Speaker 15 (02:01:56):
This is the one that was my second thing. Yeah,
that was my second single the country readio out there.
Craig Campbell, great friend of mine, great friend of yours.

Speaker 1 (02:02:04):
The thing about Craig is that and the weird thing
about this song, I believe it was a song as
it was climbing. He gets dropped from his record label.
Now dropped the record of folds.

Speaker 4 (02:02:14):
Yeah, you think the song was.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
Climbing hard es? Yes, And I remember sitting in a
meeting with my boss's boss. We were in New York
and Craig Campbell was our radio on the Bird artist YEP,
and so loved the song and the song was just
top ten and boom, his record label goes out, and
we're like, what what do we do? So it's like, well,
we're gonna keep charging with the song even though there's

(02:02:36):
no record label and no promotion. And I think it
ended up getting to like six or something.

Speaker 12 (02:02:39):
Yeah, that's huge.

Speaker 2 (02:02:41):
Yeah, that doesn't even happen. Then we were all flowering.

Speaker 1 (02:02:44):
Guess like, he's got a top ten song and now
the record label folds and goes away.

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
But just because that's never had, why can't it have?

Speaker 15 (02:02:50):
And that's what I love about, Like people that believe
in a song, believe in music, and you, like I said, man,
you can't really you don't know how to say thanks
for this? And I know Craig appreciates that's probably is
that when you is that when y'all met kind of yeah,
then was it? But I know you've had Yeah, yeah,
it's wed that. So you wrote this, Yeah, I wrote
this one. So this is the one that as a
writer on that scene that happened. And a good friend,

(02:03:11):
I mean me and Craig and he used to play
Broadway every Tuesday night at the stage. Me and himould
go get sushi right onto Mumbery and right there. Every Tuesday.
I'd be off the road from selling merch and he'd
be playing the stage and would go down and I'd
watch him sing all these songs that.

Speaker 4 (02:03:26):
He's crazy to do it, knowing every song.

Speaker 15 (02:03:28):
Every song, and I mean i'd sit there that wouldn't
be you know that many people in there at the start.
I mean they have like four hour sets down there.
By the end it was full. But I'd be there
from the beginning. I was his buddy and I always
supported him. So to see you know, him record a
song like that, knowing that he used to get me up.
That was my only chance to really ever sing in
town was during his sets. He'd get me up to sing,

(02:03:49):
just some nineties country song or something, and you know,
that's that was my moment of the week, you know,
before I went back on the road to sell T shirts.

Speaker 2 (02:03:56):
So Craig has always been.

Speaker 15 (02:03:57):
Good to me and I look for hopefully one day,
you know, we can do some shows together. I know
he's out there, I think with Luke doing some stuff now,
and like you said, you've you're a fan of his
and I you know, I just I like to pull
for good people and he's He's one of those.

Speaker 1 (02:04:10):
If you if your friend is an artist, so back
when you before you were trying to be an artist,
and you wrote something you use that was fantastic, would
you go to your friends with it first and say,
here's a song I think is really good. And is
it awkward when they don't think it's really good?

Speaker 2 (02:04:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 15 (02:04:22):
I mean that is so so true. I mean yes,
it's like, you know, I've had, you know, a couple
of close friends. I mean, Luke obviously is one of them,
but you know Thomas redd Or but he's a songwriter himself.
So I'm trying to think, you know, me and fg
O or boys, but it's hard to it's hard to
think Dirk's now. But uh, I had to. You know,
when you send the artist a song, you want them

(02:04:45):
to love it, but it is awkward, like you if
if they don't say anything back. Because now I'm on
the other side of it, and I don't know what
to do when I don't, like, you don't want to
your body say you're sending you know what do you say?
It's so it's like you don't I just if you
made a song.

Speaker 1 (02:04:58):
Lets say I write a song. I'm like by my sitting.

Speaker 15 (02:05:00):
About to ask myself songwriters that are pitching me songs.

Speaker 1 (02:05:03):
This is something that gets talked about a lot here
that and a lot of people say I believe someone
like in the last week or so said they would
get songs and they just don't reply. And that's kind
of these Hey, I wasn't really feeling it without saying
I wasn't really feeling it.

Speaker 15 (02:05:21):
That's so I'm laughing because I know I've done that before.
But I know anybody listening, they just didn't reply.

Speaker 2 (02:05:28):
Do you remember who it was, Well.

Speaker 15 (02:05:33):
It was Nicole Guy, and that's somebody I'm looking forward
to write. She's so I know I'm looking Nicole. I
want to write with you, but we're gonna I know,
we'll we'll try to work that out. But that is
very true. I've done that before too, and you know,
you try.

Speaker 1 (02:05:47):
To get to hers what it was. It's not Blake,
that's what it was because her and Blake are friend.
She was like, she'll send Blake songs and if Blake
doesn't reply, that just means he wasn't feeling it.

Speaker 2 (02:05:57):
That's their universal language. I used to do that.

Speaker 15 (02:06:00):
Yeah, I've done that, and you're kind of like, well
he hadn't replied by now, she hadn't replied by now.
They don't like it, So.

Speaker 1 (02:06:06):
Didn't you send it to someone else if they haven't
replied in how much time do you give them?

Speaker 4 (02:06:12):
You know?

Speaker 2 (02:06:12):
I don't know.

Speaker 15 (02:06:13):
These days, I don't think there is any I think
they just send it and if you answer first, then
it's good some people. But to me, I mean there
were some times when you know, I remember like Roller
Coaster when when Luke he had that on whole for
a long time, and there were other artists that I
remember a couple of artists you know, wanted it or
their A and R people wanted it for them maybe,

(02:06:33):
and Luke was like, you know, I want this song.
He ended up recording it, you know, like after you know,
you never know. I mean when you're holding a song,
and especially now me knowing as an artist, I mean,
you're taking a chance on if you don't record it.
These writers are missing out on you know, other big
artists recording the songs.

Speaker 12 (02:06:48):
So food.

Speaker 15 (02:06:49):
I mean, that's what and that's why I'm so glad
I got to do the writing thing, and I still do.
But come up that way because I want to write
all my stuff, but I don't have have to. I know,
I can't write every song because there's too many great
songwriters here. And if they're gonna send me their best stuff,
I mean, you know, I think that's how you support
the indust I'm not going to record that just because

(02:07:09):
of that reason. But I think there's so many great
songs that, you know, we're lucky enough to build a
record outside. I mean, I'd like to write them all,
but I don't. I'm fortunate to have people sending me
theirs now, and that's uh, I'm uh, that's a compliment.

Speaker 2 (02:07:22):
So let me ask you something about your boy Luke.

Speaker 1 (02:07:24):
Why is he falling down all the time we're talking
about this today, like he jump on a beer cooler.

Speaker 15 (02:07:28):
It's just he's dangerous. I don't know, man, he's worth
too much money to be jumping around. I know he's
getting a lot of people depending on him out there
to that's but he's got too many people to pay.
I know he's I don't know, man, he's an entertainer,
and that's that's something that I don't know. I literally
though I think from being around it, I'm careful, but
I have like anxiety about falling off this about your

(02:07:50):
throat ill all of it, man.

Speaker 1 (02:07:52):
Because again, if you're not making money, the people that
you have you're peging aren't making money.

Speaker 15 (02:07:58):
And that's that's and that's something that I never you know,
you never think about those things when you're chasing a
dream that you may get to.

Speaker 2 (02:08:05):
A level where you got a lot of.

Speaker 15 (02:08:07):
People behind you that are helping you on your team,
and every little thing you do, every decision you make,
every song you release, every whatever, it matters. But those
people and there's people depending on you. And it's a
good thing to have responsibility like that. But I don't
think some people understand the pressure that we're, you know,
put in in these situations. Anybody in the entertainment business

(02:08:28):
I'm speaking of. So it's it's a different thing that
I don't think some things they really realize that, hey,
everything we're doing is affecting all of the people on
our team.

Speaker 1 (02:08:38):
So let's go back to you moving to Nashalle.

Speaker 2 (02:08:40):
So what's it?

Speaker 1 (02:08:42):
How old are you? What's the thought? Did you always?
I think just put me where you are? How old
you were?

Speaker 15 (02:08:48):
See a lot of people I was leaving college. I
left college. I mean I had like eighteen nineteen hours
or a lot of people don't even don't know that,
but you know, it was just something that I had
to do. I was, I was playing shows and I
had already just go. When I got to college, I didn't.
I was undeclared major. I finally settled in on marketing

(02:09:08):
and did got so close.

Speaker 12 (02:09:10):
But it was just it was.

Speaker 15 (02:09:12):
Time and I knew that I loved music, I knew
what I wanted to do, and you know, I knew
I had to get to Nashville. So I moved. I was,
I think twenty three. It was August twenty thirds, my
dad's birthday, two thousand and seven. So yeah, August twenty third,
two thousand and seven, moved to Nashville. I remember broking
my mom. She was clutely, I mean, just couldn't understand.
She had never really even seen me play in bars

(02:09:32):
or anything. Didn't really understand. She knew I loved music
growing up, but it wasn't She had never really seen
you know, me play and didn't get it, like some
of my friends didn't. There was a lot of people
that didn't get it thought I was crazy, and those
are the people I think that ended up motivating you.
But so I moved to Nashville and I just that was,
you know, to write a song. I didn't know what
I was going to do. I was in contact with Luke.
I had his manager, Carrie, which ended up she's my

(02:09:54):
manager now we you know that he needed a merchandise guy.

Speaker 12 (02:09:58):
That did you know Luke like what we met?

Speaker 9 (02:10:00):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:10:01):
He?

Speaker 15 (02:10:01):
You know, in college, I was in fraternity fraternity singing
with Kay and he was there a few years earlier
than me, same fraternity. He was in a band there
while he was in college. And they had come back
to do like a do a show that weekend and
he just stops by and I knew his name and
knew that he was pretty popular in the local, you know,
coming through Statesboro. So he stopped to change his strings

(02:10:23):
guitar strings for that night, and met him, and he
sat down and said, can I care if I play
on some stuff I wrote up in Nashville, and I
was like, stuff you wrote, you know, I was at
that time, I was singing cover songs and on I
remember he played a song that he had written and
it just blew my mind that he made that up
and made me feel like that, you know, and I
was like, wow, and that's really that was a big moment.

(02:10:43):
And knowing that, man, some people are behind there's people
that aren't singing this that are behind these songs right
to men. I learned about who the songwriters were. And
from then on, when i'd buy an album, I was
looking at every single cut on the album that I
loved that I thought maybe he should be on the
radio and looking at the right and that, uh, that
changed my whole view on song right. And then you know,

(02:11:04):
it was always his demos he'd send me. But you know,
then Eric Church's first album, Dirks Bentley's first album came out,
and that was just those are the guys that were
writing their own songs, and I just I don't know
that changed me. I said, I wanted to you know,
I knew I wasn't writing the songs I was singing,
and I just wanted to be one one of the
guys that made people feel the way I did.

Speaker 1 (02:11:22):
So, So two thousand and seven, you packed up? Where'd
you pack up?

Speaker 15 (02:11:26):
I mean not a bed, nothing, my clothes. I had
a guard you have. I had a ninety six Chevrolet
trucks seventy one. That's that's truck. Eyed Well that was
what I had when I was sixteen. So I had
a just a black Chevrolet truck. So you loaded down,
loaded down the trailer behind it, or just put all
it was just all in the in the bed. Because
I had a guy here that was from close to

(02:11:47):
my town, Cliff Corps, that that had a house here
that he was living in and they had a small
extra room and he's like, man, there's a there's a bed,
but you know you're not even have any room for
any furniture anything. There's you have to put your computer
in the closet. And I had to get a flat
screen TV at that time, I mean they were common,
but still that I had to hang it on the
wall because it wouldn't even fit in front of the
TV where you walked through. So I was never there,

(02:12:10):
you know, I was on the road a lot. I
got the merchant Nized job, so that was I didn't
have to pack a whole lot.

Speaker 4 (02:12:15):
Man.

Speaker 15 (02:12:15):
I never when I moved up there, I didn't bring
a bed or anything. It just I lived there for
a while until I moved, you know, probably where I
moved after a year, and then I lived there for
about six years.

Speaker 4 (02:12:25):
So would you do?

Speaker 1 (02:12:26):
Did you write Monday through Thursday and then go out
and sell merch for Luke on the weekend?

Speaker 15 (02:12:30):
And you know, I'd like to say I had it
set up like that, but you know, at first, who
do you write with? I mean, how I'm a merchandise?
Nobody took me serious, and I think that had a
lot to do with when I was first coming out,
people weren't really sure if I you know, was like,
who's this guy that just got off and got off
the road? Still in teachers? But I think, uh, you know,
I don't know how it happened like that. But to write,

(02:12:53):
you know, every day, you can't do that without appointments,
And to me, I had to meet people. So I
had a couple buddies that i'd write with, and I
might write twice a week if I could. But it's
the more I did it, you know, I'd rite on
the road when I could with Michael, but just thinking
about and just knowing that, Man, I'm not there yet.
I'm not there yet. I mean, I can't wait till
one day get in the room with some of these
guys and I can learn. And but I'm glad I didn't.

(02:13:13):
I'm glad I had to learn by myself with the
guys that were on my level. And I think that's
how you that's how you grow, and it's you know,
I wrote when I could, but the more I did,
the more I you know, I think you got the
feel of it. And it was just a dignity that
feeling I used to have on stage of entertaining and
watching people have fun.

Speaker 2 (02:13:30):
Now it was.

Speaker 15 (02:13:31):
Coming up with that line or what I thought was
good and that feeling. It just took over. And so
songwriting was my new love at that point.

Speaker 1 (02:13:39):
So when you were selling for Luke, did he know
you wanted to be an artist? And is that a
weird dynamic because of that?

Speaker 15 (02:13:47):
Yeah, I mean I don't think, you know, he knew
that I was interesting, use he knew I loved music
and I wanted to be a songwriter. And I think
he you know, that was his way of saying, hey, well,
you know, come out here and see what goes on
and kind. It wasn't a really long term plan, but
it was something I went out one weekend and ended
up being at for like three years. But you know,
that's not what I moved to do. But it gave

(02:14:09):
me an opportunity to just be around the business and
be around radio and see how a new artist. I
mean see, I'd always thought Luke was the big star
back that he is now, but it just, you know,
it took a little bit for everything to catch on,
but for me to see how he did things, how
he treated people, you know, his team, It just think
it helped me when I finally got my chance. I
felt like I had been around it. I'd seen the

(02:14:30):
good and the bad of the business. I'd seen singles taught,
the charts i'd seen. I saw me and him both
loved you know, Die thirty seven, and it just, you know,
things like that I had going through that with a
friend and then finally getting your chance like I do now.
I mean, I obviously can't thank him enough, but I think,
you know, things like that make you want to get
to a point where you can give back and help people,

(02:14:52):
because he certainly you know, put his name out there,
and I've tried to.

Speaker 2 (02:14:58):
Do the best.

Speaker 12 (02:14:59):
I can write the best.

Speaker 15 (02:15:00):
And you know, make a name for myself.

Speaker 1 (02:15:02):
Talking about the hat because everybody thinks it means Cole
Swindell and it doesn't. But tell me about the hat
and why you wear that hat all the time. Could
you not make any money off the hat?

Speaker 4 (02:15:11):
Are you?

Speaker 2 (02:15:11):
No?

Speaker 15 (02:15:12):
No, I don't, I don't know. I'm just obviously a
hat guy is kind of kind of my thing. And
the Georgia Southern thing, it just I remember when I
went out and did some of my first shows when
I got my band and I was gonna try to
start getting a record deal. You know, I had a
Georgia Southern baseball hat, one of the new ones, and
I was like, I'm just gonna rock this, and we
ended up out on a big tour and the just

(02:15:34):
pictures on the internet, you know, like coming out there,
like who's this guy wearing the Georgia Southern people, you know,
we're noticing that. I saw a lot of alumni that
were like, this guy's repping our college, you know. And
I went to school there for six years and our
five five years something, and you know it's where I
got my start, and it just kind of I don't know.
I like to to be loyal to where I come from,

(02:15:55):
and it just kind of stuck with me. And then
people think it means I know, I don't know house
because it looks like a C. I understand that. But
if you look it is a it's obviously, but I
can understand it. So maybe, look, you've got all kind
of cool hats, so maybe we can just design me
a new And I don't know, I don't do you
even want that? No, I mean a lot of people
think it's my initials.

Speaker 2 (02:16:15):
But what if you don't make any money off that
Georgia Southern hat.

Speaker 15 (02:16:18):
No, I just I just think it's something that nobody
knows to Georgia southing. And I get a chance to
represent my college where my family we all, I mean everybody.
I think everybody graduated with me from there, but everybody
went there, and it's just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:16:30):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (02:16:30):
Schooling and commendable look out the state of Arkansas attitude
to my body. I love representing home. I don't always wondered.

Speaker 15 (02:16:35):
I got you. Yeah, well you know I appreciate do
you sell Georgia's other hats at your shows. No, they
have them in the bookstore like at the college. So
it's like, I mean, they had a graph of the
sales of baseball hats before I started wearing it now
and it's pretty it's pretty funny.

Speaker 4 (02:16:49):
But to me, it's the col merch booth of the college.

Speaker 15 (02:16:51):
I mean, I know, but I make I mean, you know,
I have my own line of merch down there at
Georgia Southern now, so it's I don't know, I mean,
they don't do anything like the baseball hats, but it's
still I mean, just to be tied in when I
used to be a kid in that bookstore. Now I
have stuff in there. But it's it's pretty wild to
think about that. But there, I know they're proud of me,
and I'm proud to represent them. So I'm glad, glad

(02:17:13):
you uh know, proud of where you come from.

Speaker 1 (02:17:15):
I mean, I know this story. I just wanted you
to say any because a lot of people don't know.

Speaker 15 (02:17:19):
I well, thank you, and this is a lot of
people listening and this is my only way. And that's
funny about people tweeting and stuff like when I get
you know, a couple of TV moments here and there.
But when I do, that's like the meanest thing. It's like,
why does this guy think he can just wear his
initial And it's like, well, okay, I mean that's not
that worst thing. I guess I can. I can deal
with that, but uh yeah, well who knows, Maybe I'll

(02:17:40):
change it someday.

Speaker 1 (02:17:43):
Here's Thomas Rhett talking about what it was like growing
up with a famous dad and talking about writing songs
for other artists and how he felt like he had
to prove to people that he was country. It's kind
of wild too, Like your kids are going to grow
up in an environment of knowing terrifies me all the
like all the Country Star La New York yep, Like
they're gonna have I say different. But I mean you

(02:18:06):
grew up knowing some of these guys, Like yeah, when
you grew up in Nashville. Ye, Like did you know McGraw?
I did from an early age.

Speaker 16 (02:18:13):
Yeah, I mean not so much McGraw. I mean I
met MacGraw when I was nine. I met Garth when
I was like eight or nine years old. We spent
like a couple of halloweens over at Reba's house, mostly
people that dad toured with. I knew pretty well Blake
Shelton when he is back in his younger in his
younger days, not saying that you're old, Blake, you're younger.

Speaker 12 (02:18:31):
Then he's a big fan. He'll for sure he this, Yeah,
for sure.

Speaker 16 (02:18:35):
But uh yeah, man, I definitely grew up in that environment.

Speaker 12 (02:18:38):
But it was so different.

Speaker 16 (02:18:39):
Social media didn't exist then, you know what I mean,
Like if if there was an artist that did something
that was worth talking about, it was in the newspaper.
Just so different now, like if something happens this immediately
for anyone in the world to see.

Speaker 1 (02:18:50):
Do you and Lauren have the talks about the kids
on Instagram and the kids on Twitter and like give rules?

Speaker 16 (02:18:54):
We talk about it daily, man, And we get asked
that question quite a bit, like what is the balance?
And I think we're still trying to figure it out.
But I think through it all, me and Laurena are
still trying to be super real to how we like
to live life. And ever since we got married. We're
both twenty two and we got married, and my fans
have known that I was married. Since I was married,
there was no ever trying to be like, hey, I'm
still the single dude, you know what I'm saying, Because

(02:19:15):
I think in a lot of formats it's like, well,
you want to be accessible and you want to be
the single guy because they think that it drives more
fans your way. But that's never something that I really
believed in. And so Lauren has been such a huge
part of my social media platform that like, when our
kids got here, it was like, yeah, there's a lot
of things that are too personal that we're definitely going
to save for our own family group text and our

(02:19:35):
private Instagram pages and stuff. But like, I mean, you know,
we're a family of two kids, and we're gonna project that,
you know what I'm saying, And so there's a lot
of people that are like, well, maybe that's not protective
of your kids, and it's just like, well, the part
of our lives and we've always been super transparent and
we've always kind of told whatever's on our sleeve is
going to be kind of on Instagram, and we're pretty

(02:19:55):
real about the stuff that we deal with and the
stuff that we struggle with. I just think it's I
just think more so than anything, it's more of a,
like you said, a positive influence to other families that
have kids and just realize that every day is not
rainbows and butterflies.

Speaker 1 (02:20:08):
And also, nobody's wrong, right, I mean, I think that's
a thing to understand too. Is that because somebody disagrees
that you put your kids on Instagram? Yeah, and because
maybe they don't, they're not right or wrong exactly right
or wrong. There are much like music, there are just
different ways to do yeah.

Speaker 12 (02:20:25):
Yeah, and it doesn't make you right or wrong.

Speaker 1 (02:20:27):
You can be different, yes, and you don't have to
hate somebody that's different exactly. But we're in that climate
where it's like so it be a climate, political climate,
it's all all the time.

Speaker 12 (02:20:37):
It is so frustrating to me.

Speaker 16 (02:20:38):
Probably one of the biggest frustrating factors in my life
of the last five years have been Instagram or Twitter
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (02:20:44):
And it's funny because Instagram is a big part of
your successful career too, yet it's still one of the
most frustrating parts of it as well.

Speaker 4 (02:20:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (02:20:52):
It's such a blessing and a curse, you know, because
all you want to do is use your Instagram for
a platform and use it to just promote positivity and
love and peace and all these things. But it's just like,
it doesn't matter what you or I post, there's going
to be something ridiculous on there.

Speaker 2 (02:21:08):
I posted a.

Speaker 16 (02:21:08):
Picture yesterday or video yesterday just of saying, like what
my new single is going to be? The first comment
was shave your beard? You know what I'm saying. I'm like,
first of all, what do you?

Speaker 12 (02:21:20):
What are you doing in your life?

Speaker 16 (02:21:21):
You have time to just say that to me. You
know what I'm saying, like or like, hey, bend the
bill of your hat.

Speaker 1 (02:21:28):
But okay, let me play Devil's advocate because I agree,
what a dumb thing.

Speaker 12 (02:21:31):
But you remember that, like, right, That's what I'm saying.
I'm giving that person they got noticed.

Speaker 1 (02:21:36):
On your next Instagram, I'm gonna write, hey, been the
bill of your hat?

Speaker 12 (02:21:39):
Right, and I'll remember that some likes I know.

Speaker 1 (02:21:41):
It on that what's frustrating for me And I don't know,
and I'm not speaking for you, but I know watching
you and I'm a big fan of how you.

Speaker 12 (02:21:49):
Do your music.

Speaker 1 (02:21:50):
Thanks You're you're pretty unapologetic about this is my style?

Speaker 12 (02:21:55):
Sure, like this is me and okay, you can get
a feeling as mutual man, so you can get all
you can get off the ride. But I'm just gonna
do what I do.

Speaker 1 (02:22:02):
Yeah, And I know that for me to watch at
times some of what to call it the old guard
or to go that's.

Speaker 12 (02:22:09):
That guy is not country. Yeah, that frustrates me.

Speaker 1 (02:22:13):
For you, I don't know how you feel about that,
but that for me, I'm like, God, if you guys
even just knew like that, dude, as a country.

Speaker 16 (02:22:19):
As can be, right, Yeah, man, yeah, I mean that that.
That's been my life as a country artists, not necessarily
in the beginning, but I'll say on my second record,
when I started to like lean way more just progressive
as far as production goes, and started to take my
singing a whole lot more seriously and doing vocal lessons
and all this stuff, trying to just make my record
sound like something that wasn't happening in our genre. Dude,

(02:22:42):
I have gotten more comments of you are not country
or you are ruining the face of our genre. Might
as well quit now, Like I mean, if I could mean,
there's I mean, I'm sure that you've had some of
those similar comments, but it's just like it in the
beginning of the of those days, it was just like,
you know what, maybe they're right, you know, what I mean, like,
and I think that's the poor four in my enneagram going,

(02:23:03):
They're right, I suck. I'm defeated. It's better for me
to quit for the whole world than they.

Speaker 1 (02:23:09):
You're gonna take one for the world the team, I'm
gonna take one for the world.

Speaker 16 (02:23:12):
Yeah, but really I'm taking one for like sixty people. Yeah,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 12 (02:23:15):
A small vocal.

Speaker 16 (02:23:17):
My very small vocal minority. And the more I thought
about it, I was like, you're not country. You're not country? Okay,
Why why am I not country? Well, you don't wear
cowboy boots on stage? Okay, let me mentally go through that.
The reason I don't wear cowboy boots on stage is
because I jump up and down like a crazy person.
And on the Aldean tour in twenty thirteen, his thrust

(02:23:37):
was this metal grating material and I was wearing snip
toed cowboy boots and got stuck in them every night.
That's the reason I don't work cawboy boots on stage.
Does that make me not country? I think, no, you're
not country because your music doesn't a fiddle in it.
I would say ninety eight percent of songs on country radio,
don't have a fiddle in it. There's another one, you
know what I'm saying, And so you just have to

(02:23:58):
like do this self check. I think through therapy and
you know, through talking with my wife and talking to
people that I trust about it. It's just like, dude,
at the end of the day, is country music not
about being yourself? And his country music not about telling
the truth in a story? Do I do both those things?

Speaker 12 (02:24:11):
Yes? Do I dress a little different? Yes? Are some
of my songs more progressive than some things on country radio. Yes,
I'm allowed to.

Speaker 16 (02:24:19):
Explore my outlets, you know what I'm saying. Like you
look back at any and we I think we've had
this conversation before. But when Merle Haggard and Willie Nelson,
all these dudes came out, they were called outlaws.

Speaker 12 (02:24:30):
For a reason.

Speaker 16 (02:24:31):
An outlaw is not just a term that you used
to describe country music today. It is every twenty years
we look back at the artists twenty years ago and
say that was real country music. You know what I'm saying.
We say Shanaia Twain is real country music. At the time,
she was a pop singer. They told her on Instagram
shave or beard she was.

Speaker 1 (02:24:47):
I was talking to Garth and he said to say,
you know, that's my favorite one to share with people
who go, uh, it's Garth thrial country. Garth was like, dude,
country music did not embrace me. No, he was like,
they were antis. I came to town and they were like,
you're not country. Get out of here, like what are you?
And you can go through and you can go back.
And you mentioned some of those guys, but everyone that
has changed the music for the better, because they're the

(02:25:09):
ones who we remember as being successful, has been not
country exactly.

Speaker 16 (02:25:13):
And in any genre people hated and people hated the
land because they weren't the Beatles in any art, in
any not even just music, in any art whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (02:25:21):
You can look at comedy or visual art, just whatever.
People that break the mold and are not get the
finger like you're not this are the ones that create
the new this exactly. And so that's always what's frustrated
me for you, and partially too, I think selfishly, when
I came to town, it was hey, you're not country,
and I'm going m I grew up a mountain pine

(02:25:43):
arch and like, I live in a trailer, Like what
animal do you want me to clean because I can
any of them. And I started to think, what makes
me not have an accent? What makes me not a country?
Was it because I was doing it popping hip hop
for a while, because that was where I got my
first job? I said, because I come on and I

(02:26:04):
just tell my truth all the time. I'm very authentic
about my message. Absolutely, And CBS did a story like
he doesn't wear cowboy boots or a cowboy hat.

Speaker 12 (02:26:11):
He's he's the renegade, Like, isn't country? Just tell him
the truth? Yeah, you don't have to be from the South.

Speaker 1 (02:26:17):
I am you are, so we kind of get that
little nickel that we can defend.

Speaker 12 (02:26:22):
Yeah, but there's more seen more country folks in New York,
upstate New York. I was about to say, I was
just up there and it was country as crap, or
like right outside of DC, like northern Virginia.

Speaker 2 (02:26:32):
Yep.

Speaker 12 (02:26:33):
So like, I feel your pain.

Speaker 1 (02:26:35):
And sometimes when I see people write stuff, I'm like,
you know what, First of all, who cares? But second
of all, I go I know, as a creator, after
a while, it starts to go, oh, it just gets
to be a weight that you almost don't like to
acknowledge because you're giving them power for sure, but it's real.
But it also makes me better to Yeah.

Speaker 16 (02:26:51):
Absolutely, it's honestly that that's the one area in my
life that's has taken a lot of growing. But like
you said, like when I do get those comments, it
fuels my fire. It used to suck my life away,
and now now it fuels my fire.

Speaker 12 (02:27:04):
Your dad's country, he was here. My dad is country.
Your dad is No one's gonna see your dad and
go that game country.

Speaker 4 (02:27:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (02:27:13):
Oh and that's that's my face. That's my favorite comment
I've ever gotten. Your daddy must be so ashamed. Oh
people say that. Oh yeah, for about a year there.

Speaker 4 (02:27:21):
That that was.

Speaker 16 (02:27:22):
That was the special comment. Your daddy is ashamed of you?
And I was like, I don't think I don't think
he is. Well, what, like, what a rotten thing, that's
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:27:32):
That that's a rotten thing to write, right, even for
trolls exactly, Like I lost a little faith in all
trolls that they actually write that, and I know it
already didn't have a good opinion of them.

Speaker 12 (02:27:40):
So what is it? What's the relationship between and your dad? Now,
it's amazing dude.

Speaker 16 (02:27:44):
Yeah, me and me and dad have gone through a
bunch of seasons in our life, uh, from high school
playing football into you know, signing a record deal and
kind of starting the career to kind of getting into
my career and kind of finding my own voice to
my own sound, and then's now going through a lot
of different phases in life and all good.

Speaker 4 (02:28:01):
You know.

Speaker 16 (02:28:02):
I think every father and son has their definitely ups
and downs. But I would say that me and my
dad today at twenty nine and almost fifty, are in
the best place I've ever been in our father son
relationship because like, he's so young, and.

Speaker 12 (02:28:15):
He had me when he was nineteen.

Speaker 16 (02:28:16):
My mom had me when she was nineteen, and so
to have a young parent that is I think, because
I feel like I'm kind of a young parent, and
I feel like when I'm fifty, I'm going to be
a lot different than my kids then than I am now,
because I think parents just go through continuous learning phases.
But my dad is obviously my dad, but he's also
like one of my best friends in the world, you know.

Speaker 12 (02:28:35):
So he's on tour with us.

Speaker 16 (02:28:36):
This year, brings his wife out on the road, and
when my kids come out. They just they flock to
my dad like they're obsessed with my dad. They call
M Popeye. And I think for the longest time, I
was like, what does my dad going to be like
as a grandfather? And he's like the best grandfather in
the world. And we get right during the day, we
get to play shows at night, and I just feel
like he's just become kind of a person that doesn't

(02:28:57):
have so I mean, he obviously he is very focused
and very driven and wants to be an amazing songwriter,
but I think a lot of the pressure of going,
how do I keep keep doing this is kind of
left him.

Speaker 12 (02:29:07):
As he's turned forty eight to fifty. I just felt
he's got a lot less.

Speaker 16 (02:29:10):
Pressure on his shoulders, and I think it's kind of
made our relationship a lot better. And he's given me
a lot more you know, older man wisdom. I think,
did he encourage you early early on to start music?
Not really, man, My dad never pressured me to do
a lot, but his big things don't quit anything, you
know what I mean. Like we battled that for a while,
like in high school, like going to football camp. No

(02:29:30):
one likes football camp. I don't care if you're the
best football player in the world. You hate football camp,
and like I was like, I just I just want
to quit and play baseball. I want to quit and
go do this or that. And he'd be like, well,
you signed up, you're not quitting, and and so when
it came to music, he was just he was very
weird about it because I think he did it, you know,
for ten to twelve years, and he knows the highs
and he knows the lows, and he knows what failure

(02:29:51):
feels like and what success feels like. And I think
any dubt would want to kind of give their kid
whatever they can expect and then be like, hey, now
you can make the decision, but I want you to
know that it's not going to easy road. And so him
and my mom both were like, are you sure that
you want to get into music? And when I turned
about nineteen years old, it was really the only thing
in life that I wanted to do. All I want
to do is write songs. All I want to do

(02:30:11):
is play shows. Anything about creating anything, That's what I
wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (02:30:15):
So do you look back now and see that you're
your father's son. Yes, maybe you didn't see it then,
but now you look back and go, I'm I didn't.

Speaker 16 (02:30:23):
Yeah, I didn't see it a lot then, but now
I'm looking at the way that I parent the way
that he parented, and we are we are a lot
alike in a lot of ways, and we are still
very different in a lot of ways, but more so alike.

Speaker 1 (02:30:34):
What's your first cut ever?

Speaker 16 (02:30:37):
A song called I Ain't Ready to Quit by Jason
Eldan twenty ten.

Speaker 4 (02:30:45):
You were still in school at the time.

Speaker 12 (02:30:47):
I was at Lipscomb University down the street. Yeah, and
you get a cut? Yeah, what's that like?

Speaker 16 (02:30:51):
I thought that I was a gajillionaire and I probably
made a hundred bucks that cut. But I remember when
that when that came out, Dude, it was like all
my buddies in college. I remember we went to Walmart
that night and we all bought two copies of the record,
and uh, we parked my truck in the front yard
of this little house next Lipscom and we just we
had a party to one song. We literally just played
this song on repeat for like six hours. It was just,

(02:31:13):
I mean, it was just the coolest thing that ever
happened to me in my entire life.

Speaker 12 (02:31:17):
You signed a record deal like a year.

Speaker 1 (02:31:19):
Later, A year later, Yeah, did you do the let
me talk to some record labels?

Speaker 12 (02:31:24):
Did you do the showcases for people?

Speaker 2 (02:31:26):
Did?

Speaker 12 (02:31:26):
Was it a uh?

Speaker 1 (02:31:27):
They all offering you deals like what was the Thomas
Rhett record label?

Speaker 4 (02:31:32):
Uh?

Speaker 12 (02:31:33):
Kind of pursuit like they did.

Speaker 16 (02:31:35):
Man, I think I played for I played for six
or seven record labels, and uh, the only song that
I had that I thought was even remotely good was
a song called if I Could Have a Beer with
Jesus that was on my first record, and every every
label that I played for a day later had offered
me a record deal, and I couldn't believe it because
all all, all I thought I wanted to be was

(02:31:56):
a songwriter. I just wanted to follow in dad's footsteps,
like I didn't. I don't think I wanted to go
on the road. I wanted to play shows, but I
didn't think I wanted to do the whole do the thing,
go on radio tour, sign a.

Speaker 12 (02:32:05):
Record, to do all that stuff. But as I got.

Speaker 16 (02:32:07):
Into it, started to get some cuts, it gave me
the bug because when I wrote the songs instead of
other people singing, I really wondered what it would be
like if I recorded them and put them on the radio,
and so once I signed a record of a Big Machine.
I think it was twenty eleven. It's just kind of
been a roller coaster since then, but it was definitely
the right thing for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:32:32):
Thanks for listening to this special episode of the Bobbycast.
I hope you enjoyed hearing stories from the early days
of artists who had massive careers and they're still topping
the charts, they're winning major awards, but they always weren't
chart toppers and award winners at the end of the day,
normal folks, dads, brothers, sons, who started somewhere. We'll probably
have another episode like this with some really awesome female artists,

(02:32:53):
Gabby Barrett, Martine McBride. We have that coming up to
in the near future. Be sure to subscribe to the
Bobbycast wherever you're listening to this, it would be awesome.
Thank you so much for doing that, And if you
have a couple of minutes, please go and rate us
five stars.

Speaker 12 (02:33:04):
That helps us so much.

Speaker 1 (02:33:06):
We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.

Speaker 12 (02:33:17):
Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#429 - Before They Made It Big with Chris Stapleton, Dierks Bentley, Jon Pardi, Walker Hayes + More!