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April 30, 2024 83 mins

Caroline (@carohobby) and Michael Hobby (@michaelhobby) sit down with Bobby Bones to share an inside look at their life. They reveal the secret to their 10-year marriage, how they bring out the best in each other and continue to show love through struggles. Michael also gets vulnerable about the trauma he had from losing an older brother to cancer, and then losing his dad in 2020 and how it caused him to spiral. He also reveals the challenges he faced around his career, losing his record deal and his journey to becoming sober. Caroline also talks about her podcast, 'Get Real with Caroline Hobby,' joining the Nashville Podcast Network and more! 

 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
My grandmother's talling my mom this about my dad. She's like,
you're not gonna be in love every single day of
your life, but if you can find something to respect
about them, you can always find the love again.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's Caroline Hobby and Michael Hobby, both in their own careers,
in their own way, have been wildly successful. Michael Hobby
lead singer of a Thousand Horses. They have a new
album called The Outside coming out in September, but they
have a bunch of songs that are up now. They have,
you know, number one with Smoke, touring constantly, a Caroline Hobby.

(00:38):
She has the podcast Get Real. But with Caroline, you
know before a podcast. He was on The Amazing Race
What a couple of times. Yeah, she was in She
and Stealing Angels back in the day. I mean they've
just done it all and so Amy's talking and there's
no microphone. We're literally recording. Yeah, you can say whatever
you want to say.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Run Away June. Caroline wasn't run Yes, she was like
she was about Og.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, but never on a on a label though. Huh
when they launched it was when they were Jen Wayne Og.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Caroline was in it.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, really it was one of the found Have I forgotten?
Well sounds like it. Did she leave in like after
a day?

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, it was pretty quick. It was pretty quick. She
decided that she wanted to kind of it was a lot.
It was a grind, and she wanted to pursue other things.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Well, after a day, that's not a grind.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
No, But she'd already been doing stealing angels all that.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Why I hear you? You know I was a Metallica
for like a day? Really, I mean, she's done so much.
I just I don't remember that part. Okay, So here
we are. It's Caroline Hobby and Michael Hobby. They are married.
They're both awesome in their own ways, and they've been
married ten years. They grew up together. They've been in
relayship for fifteen years. Here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Every time I do this, I have to like a
full bone hacking moment.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
So it's a nerve thing.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I don't I don't feel nervous, but it's like it
happens every time.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
It's weird. I have a tick.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
It's okay if you're nervous, my tick us.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
We're rolling by the way.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Great, you could just use this as what you want.
I'm sure, this is going to be the clip of
what we use.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
My tick used to be when I would run the board,
I would take the button even though the mic was on,
on on on on on the whole time. I would
talk for hours, not nervous, but just a tick, just
constant tick, just to make sure it's on, no idea.
And someone will be like, what are you doing? Are
you all right? You're nervous? I'd be like, why do
you even ask? But I didn't even notice I did it, so,

(02:36):
but something must have happened early on and I was
doing something similar and it was successful. Therefore I continued it. Yeah,
unconsciously even it's interesting. Yeah, it's weird that you would
get that every time.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
I don't know, we're going we joke that we're going
to have like a real of me, just like every
interview to just hacking.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
That's a gross one.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's disgusting. Yeah, no, it's gross.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Well that's what I knew. I loved her right there.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Well, I would have thought that that was because allergies
have been so bad, Like two days ago, I slept.
I had allergies so bad I slept like seventeen hours.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
And how's your sleeping going with your sleep appia machine.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
A little better. But the fact that I would sleep
that long, I just wasn't feeling good. And so all
day yesterday I was off trying to catch up on sleep.
And so I do not like coffee. I hate coffee,
but I have like a cappuccino which is like milk,
just because my sleep schedule is so effed up already.
But add that I had seventeen hours and then two
hours of sleep that it's been that sounds like what

(03:37):
I was feeling like. Not a tick.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's just a good old tick that happens every time
it's really discussing. And I don't even like get any
flim out. It's just like mafinite, you twiddle your beard
to the part point where you give yourself No.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
That's actually just that's how it grows.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
What about when you're performing on stick age, do you
pull an ear like.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
What I always mess with my left ear like always, and.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I figured it was probably and especially if you're wearing monitors, Yeah,
that it's usually a monitor tick if you have one.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
And yeah, it's weird because like like like when we
did your show the other week, like if you watch
those videos like I'm always like, I don't know why.
It's not a nerve thing.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
You also always are drinking something. You're a constant consumer.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Do you feel like it's because you're man? Are you
doing it consciously? Do you always need something?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Always? He has to have something?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Is it because you're scared you may get dry and
therefore you won't perform as well?

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Like?

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Is that is that the genuine concern?

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, it's in life, Bobby, not just performing. It's twenty
four to seven. He's always drinking.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
I just always drink a lot of beverages. I don't
know if that's because like I quit drinking that.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I but did you drink that much where you had to?
You had a beer every minute?

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Well not every minute, No, you always had a But
I'm saying you're having something in my hands.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
So it's not a hydration thing. No, I do love
being hydrated, but it's not you're dedicated like Tom Brady
to being.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
He's got so clear p.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
I am a hydrating guy. I mean, look at this complexion.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
It's good. From one really great complexion to another. Job. Yeah,
I got it. I've been blessed skin, and I don't
drink a lot of water. I try to and sometimes,
but yeah, I'm twelve years older than my wife, and
you know, she does her skincare routine and she's like,
I just want to have the routine and get my skin.

(05:26):
I don't do anything. I might not wash my face
for four days. And she gets so jealous. She's like,
you never get ZiT. You never get anything. And I'm like, well,
I'm gonna keep doing that because skins are all good.
And then she's like, unless you hit a wall from
never doing it.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
But you shave, maybe the shaving your face.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
I shave with electric grazer, so I don't even there's
not any face lotion.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Your face lotion, No, I do face, no face lotion.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
I do nothing.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
You don't have like dry flaky skin.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
No, that is you're hydrated.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Wow, your organs are doing great, let's go.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
I think it's because I I haven't seen the sun
a whole lot in my life. There are seasons of sun,
but never yeah, not a big sun guy. And then
never drink and those powers combined.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Never drink alcohol.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah that's a lot of water. Drink a decent amount,
but not enough to matter.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Do you drink other things or just mainly water? Like
what do you drink like soda?

Speaker 2 (06:16):
A weird question? Like you drink like pea? Like eight
infant blood drinks peak?

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Please not?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:21):
No, have you seen the guy that drinks pea on
the internet?

Speaker 2 (06:24):
No?

Speaker 1 (06:24):
No, do you drink like a guy?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
There's a guy that talks about drinking his own urine.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Oh I've seen those kind of guys, like like Survival
was the type guys.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, but this guy now he like does it to
like like match his pH level in his body.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's I'll sink that guy. Like, No, don't, Michael, No, don't.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
No need for that.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
You're the first guest we've had over here since the
I sor that's in the backyard the construction. We're building
a picklewall court. Oh nice, I know you guys can
play whenever we get it up. It's the most fun
game too. You can get pretty good at it really quick,
so everybody can be pretty competitive. That's why it is
so fun. And then you can it's when you start

(07:03):
playing really good people. It's hard, it's really hard, but
it's the most fun. M Older, I say over thirty
five sport, Yeah, because tennis is tough. This joints then
he can play doubles on this. You know, he serves
not crazy. But when we get it up, let's go,
let's do it. I love you do play.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
I've played several times.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
It's awesome, right, Like you can get okay pretty quick.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, it's not even even bad. You're still good.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah. She will play. She will play anything for a
minute and be really good at it and then just
kind of get bored and then go read a book
or something good for her. No, I'd like to play.
Like we had a basketball court of her old house
and we would go and play Knockout, which is the
shooting game. Great game. She beat all of us. It was.

(07:49):
It would piss me off. She's naturally a great athlete.
And then I would just be like, hey, you want
to go shoot? Yeah, I'm good. I won like last Tuesday.
I'm I'm pretty good. For a while.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
She achieves it and she doesn't need to do you
do a chieve it.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I think she was just killing time.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
She's just good at stuff. Caitlin's one of.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Those She's just born natural.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
She's born she has athletics, very athletic genes too, like
she her family. Her sister is a bulldog basketball player.
It was like crazy, good athlete, her brother played college basketball,
her dad, and then Caitlyn was like, well she got
a master. She was number one in her class. So yes,
it's annoying. It is annoying.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Some people are just born excellent, stupid.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
She's awesome, but it's annoying.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Well, congrats on having heard your partner.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
No, it's not as great as you think, because that
part feels tough.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
We got we gotta beat this up.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
The only way that I got her was my fake
doctorate is up on the scale heavier than her real masters.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
What does that mean?

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well, she has a real master's. I was given an
honoray doctor by the University of Arkansas, so I could
really say I'm a doctor.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
And so we can call you doctor Bones when I go.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
I have to go teach on campus in two weeks.
They have to refer to me as doctor because.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
They do doctor.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
It's not bones though, they do, just because that's what
that's what that's awesome, Doctor Bones is in the building.
It does feel like I'm a doctor. Osteo, you should
only teach class in October burn Halloween. Yeah, yeah, oh
I feel.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Good one okay, or you could be a bone doc
what's the bone, dog, Well, that's.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
What I was trying to figure out. A bone. I
was saying, like, osteoporosis is a bone is? That's what
I don't read. Are you knowing or guessing?

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Throwing?

Speaker 2 (09:25):
I guess are just adding? Google says orthopedis. Then what's
the osteo part?

Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think that's like osteos.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
No, yeah, but addition, right, that's the but osteo, like
the parrocess is the condition? This from medical school, follow me, guys, right,
But the osteo part's got to be doctor Bones, it
means bone exactly. Thank you. Okay, doctor Bones with the bone.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Learned a lot.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Today, a couple of things. Uh, Caroline, your podcast is
just crushing it.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
It's because I'm on the greatest network in all the land,
the Bobby Bones Nashville Podcast Network, with the best president, Morgan.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's where it is, and Morgan is the best. Yes, no, absolutely,
you were on a fine network that was trying to
skate by and figure out who they were. But Morgan
has come along and just hopefully made your life a
lot easier.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Morgan is She's awesome, the best.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yes, she's here too.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, Hey Morgan, we love you.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, just from a husband looking in.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
I talk about Morgan all the time. Michael Morgan, you
were a part of our conversation. I'm like Morgan. I
love Morgan. I can't even express how much I love Morgan.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
So the show's killing it.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
And Morgan has been a big part. And the like
the growth of the uh, like the the extra parts
of it that need to be good, the video, the set. Yes,
but you've always had that that Jena squah, you know,
thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
I love to chat, and I've always been curious about
people's stories. Sure, and I want to know because like
I've always wanted to know how do people like do life?
Because I have always struggled trying to figure out how
to do it.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
But I think you always, I think the regardless of
who you are and what's happening, you always struggle how
to do it right. Doesn't everybody always struggle?

Speaker 1 (10:58):
I would say I have confirmed that after now doing
the podcast now for likew many years, eight seven, six
years or whatever. Even the people who are everyone knows this,
people say this, but like when you actually like interview
these amazing people, which you obviously do every day, you
realize nobody has this all figured out at all right,
at all? And so many everybody has passed struggles, everybody

(11:21):
has past traumas, everybody has insecurities. It's like and I
love that we're kind of like lifting that veil in
this in society.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Now.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Who know, did you have a can I mention the
one that didn't air? Yeah, you get a porn star
on that and you didn't hear it.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I did because I and I really actually had a
great conversation with her and I didn't air it because
after doing the interview, I was just talking to her story.
I just I hadn't really done a whole lot of
thinking about the porn industry actually before I had a
porn star, like.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
The like and the name porn star also, is not
it glamorizes the.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Actual darkness of it, yes, and like so I was
sort of talking to her about her journey and her
story and you know, she doesn't she didn't have a
bad experience as a porn star, but like I would,
I just I wanted to be more specific about the
actual industry before just like having a conversation because it
is such a dark, dark industry. It hurts a lot

(12:20):
of people and children and women, and there's a lot
of negativity to it, even though she's turned hers into
something good.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
And I was Morgan was talking to me about it,
and she said, it was a really great conversation, Like
it was a normal, open, as real conversation, as quickly
as you can get because sometimes this is a bit tough.
I never wear shorts, but as you guys, I was like,
I want to short screw it. Yeah, Like that's my point.
Like with us, I feel like we can just start talking.
But with some folks, if you don't know them, you

(12:48):
know you're there's the foreplay part of the interview where
it's like I'm feeling them out, trying to figure out
if I even like them, trying to figure out their
speech pattern. When they stopped talking, they hack all the time.
I have the notes on you had that already.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Sometimes the term a hacken took off, like you're laughing.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
But I think there's probably from that episode. I think
there's probably a way that you could carve in and
out of it with the knowledge that you have now
after doing it.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
So maybe we should revisit it or look at it.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I mean, I think Morgan has the best idea about
what to do with it. But I think I would
hate for you to waste something that's really good. If
there's something people can get from it, and anything that
makes you uncomfortable, you can just cut out and then
talk around it, right and be like, hey, we did
this and this is her and I had no idea
A lot. I don't need to tell you. I don't

(13:43):
need to tell Morgan, but I think there's probably something
very valuable about that existing at some point, because you're right,
it's a pretty dark place and there are terms like
porn star that you use to kind of glamorize it
to make people feel like it's okay, And most people
to get into it, it's not because they're having a

(14:04):
great day in a great life survival mechanism.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
And that's what happened with her is she, you know,
didn't have a father figure, and I think there's some
mental health issues with some other members of the family,
and she had to start providing at a young age.
And she's beautiful, and she started stripping, and then she
quickly realized she could make a lot more money doing adults.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Because she needed to make more moneyed too. Yeah, like
she had already had to introduce herself to something my own.
I would just say, I think you have learned a
lot from and since then I just wouldn't waste that.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Okay, well we can, I'll circle back around to it.
I mean there was some good stuff in it, for sure,
and maybe like do like an intro talking about it
and like kind of I just like the industry itself
is there's so much negativity with it and so many
horrible things, especially for like just you know it just
praise on the innocent, and I hate that so much.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
So who did you Have? I saw who you have
on last episode Chaval? Who Val? Because I saw this
on the promo?

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Cheval is an incredible story. She her name is Haley,
but she can't use her real name anymore because she
started this. She was on Say Yes to the Dress,
and she was a wedding designer and she's like this
huge She wanted to be a designer since she was
like seven years old. Became a huge successful wedding designer
and then wedding dress designer, and she ran into like

(15:26):
a lawsuit with her former employee who wanted to control
like all socials and all things, and the contract wasn't
very good and she was trying to renegotiate, and in
that renegotiation, she like.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Lost all of her ip of her name, No.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Lost all of everything, and she can't even be you
can't even like mention her name.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Boys in the yeah, late nineties, two thousands, TLC, early
nineties types just like a.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Bad contract where they own everything. And she was so
young she just didn't And she says that she shouldn't
have signed the contract to begin with. But you know,
when you're that young and you want an opportunity, sometimes
you don't think things. I'll think three because you don't
know how Michael, how long you has been married.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
We'll be married ten years on August thirteenth.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Good for you for knowing that, right up.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Hey yeah, I was thinking about it for a second.
Thanks man, Yeah, ten years.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
You know how important that is?

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah? I do. And sometimes I'll do a live show
and I'll ask somebody and they will they will look
at the ground or something and I just roast them.
That's hilarious. But so ten years, ten years, what do
you do? Just talk to me. I'm about to be
three years in ingrat Okay, well July, but before you guys,
or ten different, definitely different, marriage seasons. Uh, it's been

(16:42):
I think harder on her than me because she was marrying.
I would say an emotional child, but possibly in life terms, Uh,
somebody retired seventy five years old, you know, I think,
but but emotionally definitely stunted.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Because you're saying you were, Oh yeah, where were you stunted?

Speaker 2 (17:07):
I'm talking to Michael over here right now we're having
you got to talk about your part. Go do your
your podcast, check back, check back, you're the interview. What
what advice ten years in would you give me two
and a half years in, like real life.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Stuff, not like, don't try to make a fabricated well, not.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Like communicate, No, Like I get it, that's it's important
communication absolutely, But if you just say that, it's so vague.
I'm not saying you guys, but it's like it's so
vague and generic. It's like, communicate, but sometimes it's going
to be really hard and you're not gonna want to
say it, and you're gonna hate what's gonna happen from it,
and you're only hoping that what comes from it is
actually something that progress. I need that kind of advice.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, Well for me, advice I'll say, I'm married like
someone who can drag things out of people just through conversation.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
You're welcome.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
So like I if I have some and going on
for me in our marriage, like she's gonna get it
out of me in like a therapeutic.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Way a hound dog does hostage to get it out,
or does she? Or is it like she'll try to
get it out and then you'll do your own thing,
but then you'll come back, and that's she's right at
it again.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I'm relentless.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
But do you give it up? Will you give it
up for a night and then come back the next
day or do you just not start? No, it doesn't stop, Okay, so.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
I eventually I have to just go you know what? Yeah,
And Mike will be like.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Do we have to have a deep conversation.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
You know what? I like, I'll just play pickleball for
a few hours and we don't have to talk about anything, or.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
We never have to talk about it, like I know
and you know, so we both know, so let's never
talk about it exactly. That's why.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
And I'm fine, hang tight. The Bobby Cast will be
right back and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
So okay, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think ten years of marriage just
help me. Like being vulnerable is okay, like when you're
going through something like we all kind of grew up
in like the tough man syndrome, you know, like you
do your thing. And Caroline's kind of helped me understand
through We've grown a lot together.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
There's so many things together.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
You know, highs and lows, high highs, low lows. But
it took me and I didn't realize this until like
later on a numberage. It took me a while to realize,
like expressing myself to someone and trusting them was kind
of an issue, like I'd never it's always like surface
level in certain parts. But like with you now after
ten years, it's like I'm fully like in like I'll

(19:36):
tell her anything, tell her exactly how I feel, be vulnerable,
you know, and in bad days and good days and
all those things. So that's communication is really the key,
Like I really I know that's like you know in
a book somewhere with us though too.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Though, like if you come, if you're like dial that
down though, Caroline a minute, we'll conduct two minutes. Yeah,
see this is what happens.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
And I started explaining that communication, but go find me
a specific part of communicating, like an element, because you
did touch on vulnerability, and maybe that's what you want
to expand on. Because if someone says, well, communication is
the key, I'm like, I'm not listening anymore. But now
everybody's saying.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
I know, I know that's a terrible answer.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
So don't look at her. I know you will look
at her and she will jump back in and I
know she's got the exact answer that I'm looking for.
But I'm asking you as a dude, because I have
and have had trouble my whole life with being vulnerable.
And it was never a masculinity thing because I didn't
have men in my life to be like you got

(20:40):
to be manly. It was always a vulnerability thing because
I was not allowed to be weak for a couple
of reasons. I couldn't. I couldn't. It was self protection.
And so as I got older, those two seem to
ven diagram cover each other a lot. Masculinity and I
don't you don't want to be man and I don't
want to be vulnerable, But I didn't care about the

(21:02):
mainly thing. I just don't want to be vulnerable. It
just seemed like I gotta be tough, not because it's
a dude thing, because it's a man if I'm weak
and I have struggled with what you just said with her,
yet I've been better with her, better or worse, what
are happy to find it with her than anybody I've
ever been with. But that is by far the hardest

(21:23):
human thing for me to do, is to be vulnerable,
because I feel like people won't like me, trust me,
want to be with me if I'm weak, because I've
never been weak, even though I have.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, I completely agree with that that it's like fully
being trusting someone and like taking off that suit, you know.
I feel like we all wear like different suits, like
when you're around people and you're and you're doing things
that protect you from that your ego. I think it's ego,
you know, a lot of it. But with her, it's

(21:55):
like learning to be vulnerable. And then I work on
myself a lot too, to be better in what way
like therapy and then like you know, healing things that
have happened to me throughout my life, and then trying
to understand, like you know, I'm always kind of reading
and really trying to I want to be, you know,
a great husband, and I want to be a great
father and a great friend to people. So you know,

(22:16):
we're all trying to figure this world out. So she
supports that with me no matter any way I want
to do it, you know, because her way is different
than my way, and I'm sure you and.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Oh yeah, we have the same thing, completely different communication
styles yeah, and attachments. Yeah, like she is. If we're fighting,
her attachment style is she needs to be right there,
or if we're not, or if we disagree, she needs
to get it fixed right away. I am the opposite.
I have always figured things out in my head, ye
by myself, and that's what I need to do. But

(22:49):
at times it is not a good It has been
good for my growth because I've been forced to somewhat go.
I have to be better at her way or we're
never ever going to figure out what works for both
of us. So it's been good, but it's been really
hard because that's not me. It's good, that's not my
attachment style at all.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
That doesn't mean it's not you. It's just not what
you've ever had the opportunity. You haven't had the opportunity
to be in a healthy relationship yet until now to
have that place to let this be you.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
But it is when I say I'm emotionally stunted. A
lot of people learn through other relationships when they're fourteen,
nineteen twenty six. Maybe you live with somebody, maybe you
get engaged, maybe you have your first marriage. You know,
there are all these different ways people and I don't
have any of that. And so here I go, at
forty years old. I'm like, all right, we're getting married. Nothing.

(23:45):
It's like it just group cubes.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
I think you're doing great. You're the best version of
yourself I've ever seen since you been great.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Thank you. So what would you say? I was shutting
you down for a minute. Go ahead, So what's the advice?

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Well, I'm surprised you didn't say what mom always says.
You say this all the time.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Oh, you're never equal at the same time.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, that's number one. You're never equal at the same time.
And my mom has told me that my whole life.
And she also told me marriage is not easy. Marriage
is hard, but it is wonderful. And so it's like
I had a good example from my parents of my
mom got married to my dad when she was nineteen
started dating when she was seventeen like my dad was twenty.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
That's a story book type stuff that doesn't even feel real.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
I know. So like they grew up together, they went
through hard times together, like really hard seasons, really great seasons,
and like I've witnessed them just stay you know, And
I think that's a big part of it, is like
get a good model, have a good model. Itat model,
and they're not like.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I had a great model. Yeah, and again they're not perfect.
They're not perfect, and they have a model of we're
gonna always get through it.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yes, yes, And like that's why you just have to
have pillars. You have to be honest, you have to
be faithful, you have to be committed and honestly. That's
in kind to each other. Like you're not always gonna
be like super kind, but like if you can be honest, faithful,
committed and kind, I think you can respect each other.
And that's another thing my mom told me that my
grandmother told my mom she married my dad. She was like,

(25:05):
you're not gonna love. You're not gonna love. My grandmother
is telling my mom this about my dad. She's like,
you're not gonna be in love every single day of
your life. Right, But if you can respect them, if
you can find something to respect about them, you can
always find the love again. And I think that like
in this day and age, in this culture, like people
are so quick just to throw stuff away if it's uncomfortable,
if it's not easy, if it's hard, if it provokes feelings,

(25:27):
if it's like difficult. And I think for us, like
you had a lot of trauma in your life, and
I have too, but you had some really big issues
like death that you've had to.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Deal with, and like who died from your childhood or
young young age? Oh? My brother? Was he older younger
than you?

Speaker 3 (25:42):
He was older?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Do you talk about this at all?

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Uh? Yeah, I have sometimes.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
How do he die?

Speaker 3 (25:47):
He had cancer? What kind brain tumor?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Was it a slow one or a long one? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (25:52):
He fought it for eight years?

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Really?

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, So you know, and this is things I've discovered
of my childhood that I thought these things were normal.
But in therapy you as you know, you're the.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Only one top I mean, of course that's all you know.
Of course, no, so when we don't talk.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
About it, you develop these you know, you develop armor
throughout that that you don't even know you have. And
you know, so for me, like that's what I grew
up with, Like from the time I can remember he
was sick to the time he passed away. You know,
I was twelve or twelve when he passed away.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
So your memories start at four or five for the
most part, and so when your memories developed that you
hold on too, that's what you knew.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
So, yeah, I had a sick brother that we took
care of for that entire time, and I never thought
anything of it.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Well that you would lay in your room at night
and he would hear his brother's monitor and you would
just every time it would stop beeping, you would be
so worried that that would be it.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
What was your relationship like with him? How sick was
he through you know, age six, seven, eight nine?

Speaker 3 (26:48):
For you, it was great. He was he was great.
I mean he was a fighter. You know. He he
had like moments where he would recover and like it
looked good, you know, promising, and he'd get back to
being a kid and his hair would go back and
you know, he's playing baseball and and then you know,
would come back and uh he you know, then we'd
kind of repeat the cycle. But uh, he was great man.

(27:09):
I mean he we treated him just like a brother.
You know, it wasn't like special treatment.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
How did that affect your parents' relationship?

Speaker 3 (27:16):
You know, ruined it? You know after he passed, Like
and I was angry about that for when they got divorced,
you know, because I didn't quite understand it. But now
the older I've gotten and then having a child, like
completely makes sense, Like how could they you know, see
and live that way and deal with it? And you
know they held on as long as they could after

(27:36):
he passed away, but like that was the I mean,
that's the greatest loss you can suffer. I think in
a in a in a marriage is one of your
children being sick and.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Then dying or your brother dying. I mean, well yeah,
but yeah, not to what do you talk about? Like
we're in therapy with that, Like there are definitely things
I tried to even discover about myself, Like things I
don't even know up that I act certain ways because
of like sometimes he'll go up. I'll give you an

(28:06):
example I was with. So I have two therapists. We
have we go to couples counseling. We started early on
because We're both like, eventually we're gonna go anyway.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Oh yeah, got to.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
So let's get ahead of it because we're both big,
we're both people that have needed use love and recommend therapy.
So we started going to a couple's therapists, and then
I have my own therapist, so I go We go
to a couples therapists every week. I go to my
therapist every other week. So there are some weeks it's
like it's like full therapy week.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
It's exhausting work on yourself. It is fully exhausting.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
There are times where I will be in with my
therapist and you know, he'll just ask me general, general
pointed questions though about my outlook on certain things. And
I was talking to him and I said, you know,
I have two versions of my life. I have the
I'm the Sun in a helios centric world where everything
revolves around me. Either I feel like that's it, like

(29:03):
I'm the only thing that matters, or at the same time,
fifty percent of my life is I don't matter at all.
I am nothing but organic matter, and nothing I do
or think or say nothing matters. And he was We
sat with that and we talked about it and he
was able to root those feelings into like six seven,

(29:24):
eight years old, yes, right that I had no idea
that would be why I felt certain ways, like you know,
my mom being an addict, being gone or being in
and out. And there were times where I felt like
I had to do it all, and then there were
times where people had to do a lot for me
and so, and there are reasons that I act like
I do where I think depending on who you talk to,

(29:45):
some people are like that dude thinking of me that
is one arrogant dude, and then some people will be like, man,
that guy is like super nice and like get it
just depends what version I like, I'm don't even know
I'm feeling. Yeah, but I'm still and so. But I
had to learn that through therapy, Like with your experience
with your brother, Like what is it that you feel
like you need? You're working on now and you're discovering

(30:06):
about yourself from that part of your childhood.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
You've done a lot of growing these past few years.
It's been it's been the full manti of like self.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
What's the hardest part about talking about it?

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Oh, I mean, I mean, I guess it's like figure
like it still figuring out like what all those things
are I mean for me? You know, I think a
lot of my personality of like of of of like
lightheartedness and like not I don't take anything very serious
and like everything's gonna work out and everything's gonna be good.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
It's always a party.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
It's always a party, and.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Like real stuff like that's real, that's stuff that has
grown in you because of it.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Because yeah, I was the youngest of four and that's
you know, I was always like the kid that entertaining
and like I got into He helped me get into music,
and like that was my outlet for Do.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
You feel like he got all the attention he needed it? Obviously?
He no.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
I mean my parents did a really good job of that.
But like I always had, like I have, I had
a heart for it, like I wanted him to have.
Like I didn't know that he was you know, you
don't understand life at that age. I didn't know what
was coming and what my parents kept for me, you
know as as we got older. But you know, I
wanted to help him. I wanted to do nice things

(31:17):
for him. I wanted him to get you know, if
his Christmas, like him to get the great gift and
like him to get the thing. But that that was
just I don't know if that was youngest child syndrome,
but like I just I never looked at it as
a negative thing. Definitely could be a mix, yeah, but
I don't ever remember being angry about it or or
frustrated with it. Like you know, I loved him and

(31:38):
I have like a heart for for people like things.
I don't know that nature of sensitivity. Maybe that's where
I get my sty from, and that's.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Where I get you are like a lot of men.
I've been thinking about this, think a lot of men lately.
A lot of men lately, I think I think a
lot of men lately. I've been thinking about men lately
because we have a daughter and she is coming into
like understanding life, and a lot of men prey on

(32:09):
the week, the vulnerable, the innocent, and the disadvantaged. And
I think about that, like that's just like I'm not
saying all men do that, but a lot of men
do that, and you have never done that, Like that
is like not in your nature at all. And I
think it might be because you've always felt such a
heart for the week, the vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
The disadvantaged, it's also a weird just position that you're
not a vulnerable guy, yet you're a very vulnerable guy.
Like insight, you're a very sensitive same I like, I've
got all this armor, but man, if you happen to
get in there, I'm freaking yeah, melted chocolate. It's hard
to get in there or but I protect it because
it feels so sensitive and I don't want anybody to

(32:51):
see it. I feel like you're like I have struggle
being vulnerable, yet you are so your EmPATH on the
inside even if you're not on the outside. And once
you get into it, I can just feel how you
talk to her and like how you that you're probably
like a like a little booboo shinhiti. I like that. Yeah,
well does he cry? It's like he if it's really

(33:14):
like if it's like a real yes.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yes, we've weeped together, like we have like full lon
like poured tears out.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
What do you do that when you first met What
do you did when you first got married and dated?

Speaker 3 (33:22):
No, we were married.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
We were married right before you started I don't know
falling in front of me. Well, you finally opened up
the box. I think what you're talking about and I
think that's why it's really important to have. It's wonderful
to have a great relationship where you can get to
that spot because I will say, for me, marriage is
not like this whole like notebook, throw yourself up against
the wall. Let's have this crazy passion. Not to say
that we don't have that, but it's like marriage to

(33:46):
me is like, Wow, this person is going to walk
through life with me. We are going to freaking figure
out the darkest parts of our souls together. We're gonna
help each other.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Heal.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Like it's like we've just done hard work in our marriage.
The whole time, it's been like we've had a lot
of hard work to do.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah, And I'm like you I'm a figure out or
like I'm like my hall, I say it all the time.
I'm always like, we'll figure it out. I'll figure it out.
Like and that's kind of like my way of figuring
it out, Like, well, I think about it.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I do it too. I repress a lot of stuff.
I've just been forced to not repress as much stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Now you just like figured it out and don't worry
about it. You just kind of be like, let's just oh,
let's just that's why you live to party. Let's just
go have a good time. Let's just go have fun.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Ye, how long have you not drink?

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Two and a half years.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
When you stop drinking, did you lose a bunch of
weight or did you get a bunch of weight? How
did your body react to not having as much alcohol? Oh?

Speaker 3 (34:37):
I lost a bunch of weight?

Speaker 2 (34:38):
You did?

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (34:39):
What were you drinking? Mostly? I vodka was my thing
to keep so well then what how would you gain
the weight? Then?

Speaker 3 (34:45):
If it's vodka, well it's you know, drink a lot
of it.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
So it would be this. So I don't know, I
feel like that's a pretty clean vodka soda line.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
I think one or two are clean. Yeah, you know,
I don't think ten are.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
What kind of drunk? Were you?

Speaker 3 (34:59):
Man?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Happy?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Like?

Speaker 3 (35:01):
I was a fun like when I.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Drank, you're a happy guy. You're not a dark You're not.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
I never had a dark side of drinking where like
I was an asshole or I yelled at her or
yelled anybody. I just always wanted to party, like I
wanted to have people over. I wanted to, you know,
go to people's houses. Like I just never wanted to
face whatever reality I was up against maybe, you know,
and when I did, you.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Didn't want to crack open the pain of all that.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
No, And when I did, and I got tired of that,
like after a long time, because what I look back
on my childhood is like I started that at a
very young age, you know, Like alcohol was introduced to
me around the time my brother passed away. Yeah, and
you know, and my family drank, like my dad drank,
my mom drank like it was a thing. You know,
We're American farm We had a bunch of old But

(35:48):
like you know, I dove into it because it made
me feel great and it was fun or.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
It allowed you to get away from not feeling bad.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Exactly, And and it just kind of continued. And I
think I tried to you know. That's the thing about
it is like you you manage it till it's unmanageable.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
When did you realize it was unmanageable?

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Like what happened, man, It was that my dad died
in twenty twenty and uh, he he had he was
he was diabetic and he went in he had he
was in kidney failure. So he was got on the
list to get a transplant.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
But not alcohol.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
No, no, but he uh he man. He went into
the hospital for a hart CAF to be approved for
the transplant list and and never walked.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Out that he went in for that.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yeah, a simple heart.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Cow you're talking to on the phone.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
I was on the phone with him and he was like, Hey,
I'll call you right back. Your brother's picking me up,
and that's it. And it was in COVID, so we
we could not be with him, and and that hit me. Hey,
my dad was my best friend and like my biggest
supporter and advocate, and that hit me. I mean I
dove hard at that point.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
You know, what do you mean you dove? Did you
drink more? Oh?

Speaker 1 (36:57):
He had a kid's another record deal, just.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Lost another record deal, Like it was a lot, and
and it it kind of sent me spiraling down, like
pretty hard.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
I mean, just your dad dying like that is a lot. Yeah,
I mean, that's that's a lot.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
A lot.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
The COVID thing too, where you're not able to and
he and he probably.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Well and it didn't it was maybe wasn't. It could
have been totally avoided.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I like, when I commend you going to there because
you're fighting a lot of stuff, and that's difficult.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
It was a hard years. Like you were just coming
out of it, like back to like a light self.
But you were in the depths of the valley for
a long time.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Could you? So you've been to a half years no drinking?
Are you? Are you done? In your mind?

Speaker 5 (37:43):
Are you?

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Is your goal?

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Your appendix ruptured almost and that's why he stopped drinking.
That was the final straw.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
But was it because you're drinking your appendix?

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Well, I don't think any of it helped, but okay,
you know, so I don't know the medical.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
There's a lot of sounds like a god dang man, heavy, heavy,
heavy season.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
How did that make your marriage? How did that galvanize
you too? Because I feel like it was gonna be
one way or the other with all of that happening bad.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, I have always loved you.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Hung in there.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
I have hung in there, and you're gonna have to
hang in there for me, you know. That's the thing.
It's gonna switch. There's gonna be a season where I'm
gonna need it, you know. And it's like that's what
my mom says. It's never equal at the same time,
and so it's like that was a season where we
were at a point though you had to make a
decision to go drinking, like it was at that point.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
But I made that decision on my own. Yeah, she
didn't even know that I was gonna do that, Like
I just did it.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
And but it was it was it was a moment
that needed a change.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Did you have a bottom moment?

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, I would say when I was getting my appendix,
like when I was sitting in a hospital room like
by myself, and like, you know, the real truth of
it is like the nurse who was taking my blood,
like my my, my blood was so thin, and the
nurse made a comment, he said, oh, that happens, you

(39:04):
know with people that drink a lot and for some reason.
And I was by myself in this situation, and and
it just kind of hit me like an aha moment,
as Oprah says or whatever. But and then I went
into surgery and I came out, and I just when
I came out of it, I don't know. The next day,
I woke up on Mike and just said, it's you know,

(39:27):
it's time.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Do you ever want to drink now?

Speaker 3 (39:43):
I don't really, I mean, it's something that you you mourn,
you know, like I think I mourned the lifestyle of it.
I think I mourned the memories in the fun of
it sometimes. But my life is so much better. I'm
so much healthier, Like my marriage is better, my relationship
with my daughter is incredible, with my relationship with my
band is incredible, and music is better. You know, I

(40:05):
can't poke holes in in in in the positive side
of not for me not doing it.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Nobody party threw a better party than Michael Hobby. I'm
going to tell you you that's probably what you more
because like he would throw, you would throw rageous. We
would have the biggest parties you could imagine.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Can you be around it?

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Oh yeah, yeah, I got no problem being around it.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
I wish I could. I want to. I want to
drink so bad. Oh yeah, I want to do everything.
I want to drink. I want to smoke weed. I
want to I want to do heroin.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
No, I do I do to try it.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
I want to do everything I would I can't. Well, No,
I would like to experience it, and yes, I would.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Like to relax for the escaping of it.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
No, I just would like to try it. I will.
I won't.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Why because you're scared it.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Oh, I will love it. I'll be the winner of it.
It's not even a game. I'd win a gold medal
because I would. That's all I would do.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Well, you're doing.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Great, so you know, well you know what you might
You did good just never starting it.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, I agree. I find other obsessions and I roll
through weird seasons of obsession slash addiction type qualities. I
read a lot of book books on addiction, and I
don't have I don't have the need to drink. I
would love it, though.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
How do you escape like your mind? I don't know,
you know, like that's whatever saying I don't exercise.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
I hate exercise.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
But you do it?

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, like four or five times a week.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
I hate it?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
That help you hate it? I literally hate it. I
mean I do. It's the worst. I would not do it.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
How do you get relief?

Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't have an answer. I don't have a I.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Don't have an answer, so you just white knuckle it.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Even if I were to say I play golf. When
I'm playing golf, I'm so miserable because I'm every I'm
soaking every shot. I'm just it's like, well, I mean,
I don't, I do not know. I don't have hobbies
that are just fun. Any hobby that I have, I go, well,
I could probably turn this into something career wise and

(42:14):
give me a bit more security.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
So is your main thing that you're scared that's going
to go a ways that.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
You won't have I can't pay bills, you can't even.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Though you're way past that now.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Absolutely, So it's like career addicted.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
It is just for safety.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
I don't even know if it's career, but it's I
don't listen. We don't want to be what we're scared
that we used to be or we were.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
You don't want to go back to.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I don't want to have to like be a charity
case or have people like take care of me. And
so it is not logical in any way whatsoever. I
have a ton of money now, I do not feel
like I have a ton of money ever, And so
there is never that security of I can just probably
just chill. It's if I don't continue whatever, but of

(42:59):
moment minimum that I have created, I will lose it
and lose every So I don't like if I'm sick,
I'd work, I would work through it because I didn't
want to fall behind. But at least now I can
acknowledge that. But I don't really know that I have
a hobby or like a vacation. I don't know what
I like to do on a vacation.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I don't know what are you and Kaitlyn doing on vacation.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
I don't know what to do. So we do what
she wants to do. And I have no problem with
that because I don't have an answer.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
At least you're going on vacation. Is allowing yourself to
go on a vacation.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Not allowing it?

Speaker 1 (43:31):
I'm forced, Well, you know, I think she's a good
influence on you.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
No, no, I agree. It's that difficult influence at times,
because there would be times we would go and she's
like it would be a contentious thing, like hey, I'm
going to work for a few hours, and she's like,
I know, you don't need to work, Like you don't
need like can you not break? Can you not stay
off your phone? Can you not? But all that hard stuff.
Once you kind of get to the other side individually,

(43:55):
you're just a little bit closer overall. Oh yeah, which
is crazy for me to see now from two and
a half years above it.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Marriage is a long game, it's a long payoff.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
And so she's been a good influence in that I'm
really uncomfortable a lot of times. It's wonderful, but that
means I get a little more comfortable every single time.
But I do not But I would love to do
all the drugs. Okay, I feel Yeah, we just love it.
But just be the greatest and I can afford them.
Let's go give me. Yeah, I'm saying, the best of

(44:27):
the best, let's go. So I'll sign me to a
bad deal. I'll sign it. Be a boy band member,
do lots of drugs and peace out that.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
It always ends badly. Yeah, the endings never go.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
So they say, you haven't seen me do it yet.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Winning at that game is actually and I know, yeah,
but I understand why you want to do them.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, I would just like to find something that allows
me to take a breath right, because I don't know
what that is.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
You're going to get there, You're on your way.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I'm almost dead.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
You're gonna get there. You're gonna get there with Caitlin.
It's gonna be great. It's gonna You're over time. Because
I look now at us after ten years, and I'm like,
I can't even tell you what I think marriage is anymore,
because I'm like, it's just riding the highs and the
lows with somebody standing next to them, and then you
get through them and you're like, holy shit, we have
a wealth of life that like you just can't even

(45:17):
explain it, a collection of like just being with someone
through everything that is like you can't you can't like
just go get that. You have to like live that
with someone you know, and it's like you got it,
and then you know this person on such a different
level and like you just feel seen.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
And I think my fear is that she knows me
on such a different level that she doesn't like me.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
She know she loves I hear you.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
But I'm telling you that's really what I kind of feel.
It is like if she really knew that, I don't
know that she'd feel the same way.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
I think she. I think she knows what she signed
up for.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
I think I surprised her sometimes, well, you keep it interesting.
I don't think she'd use that word. Okay, all right,
but so I know you guys were on the show
a few weeks ago. I don't know this is going
to hit a couple weeks. So, okay, A Thousand Horses
was on the show. Yeah, you guys put out the
music in September October last year.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, we were starting to roll out. We rolled out
and started rolling out songs. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
So what summer tends to be like spring? Summer tends
to be the season where you're just generally out playing.
Do you feel like you're gonna be able to wide
open play being a dad? Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
I mean I've been home a lot of the time
she's grown up, which has been great. So we have
a great relationship and you know, dad's gotta go work
like yeah that and I'm I'm the happiest in that
cycle of touring and being home and touring and being
home and being I'll have to stay moving. If I sit,
it drives me nuts.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Also, I guess the country music way of touring is
easier for a family than the poper rock way of touring,
which is get in a bus and go away for
three months where you can come you can do Thursday, Friday,
Saturday and come back right.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Yeah, but you know I.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Or are you not doing that?

Speaker 3 (47:02):
No, we are, We're doing yeah, weekend warrior stuff.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
You know.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
We just started tour last the last weekend and how'd
that go? It was great. Yeah, it's like our first
headlining tour, so we're out doing clubs and it's our show,
and man, it's been awesome. So we have that for
the rest of the spring. But I don't know. I
sometimes I feel like I'd rather just go do it
all and then come home and be home for a

(47:27):
period of time. Then like, you know, you get in
a different mode out there're getting a different character and
like you're like in a groove with traveling, you know
how it is. And when you get home on Sunday,
you're like okay, and then you reset back in the
normal dad mode or husband mode, and then on Wednesday
you got to get right back in and again. So

(47:47):
it's I don't know, you know, artist friends and I
on both both sides, country and rock and pop, we
talk about that all the time, like which is better.
Is it better to just knock out three months and
then have three months of no touring where you can
work on music and you do it and be with
your family, or is it just like consistently used out
every weekend throughout the year, and I.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Would assume there's positives in both. There is no better
there are better parts about both of them. That would
be my assumption that you do get to come home
and see your daughter every week. But yeah, it's hard
to keep momentum rolling. Whenever you gotta stop, that's it,
especially if like you're feeling it. But again, what about

(48:26):
your momentums a dad, you gotta keep that.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
It's a balance.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Can't do everything. I try to, but we don't have
kids yet.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
But you know how it is like when you're like
three shows in a row like that.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Oh yeah, like you've done two full nights of like, oh,
I'm back in now, and then you're done, Like I
would do three nights, even two nights of doing stand up.
After that second, I'm like, man, I need to do
four more shows, like I'm feeling it, okay, six days
off You're like, god, dang.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Yeah, you got all your notes. Yeah, then you forget
about it and you gotta so.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
I mean, you want to be home to be a dad,
and if they could come with me, then I would
just stay out.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
What about your relationship with those guys, because you guys
have been through.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
It a little bit, been through it a little bit.
A thousand horses has been through it a lot of bit.
This band, y'all. I'm like y'all, I have so much
admiration for y'all's uh dang power, like y'all's horse power,
Like y'all should have quit so many times ago. Which
is with all that and not that your talent or
anything like that. It's just like all.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Of the I didn't take you saying that's about a talent,
just so you know, yeah, I took it as in
there's a lot of a lot of a lot of struggle,
a lot of adversity, but the normal person would have quit.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yeah, y'all must really love it.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
We do love it. And we stick together, you know,
the three of us. I mean, we've known each other
since we were kids, and and we signed up to
do this, and that's what we're gonna do, you know.
I mean, and if we ever look at each other
where we all want to call it, you know, we'll
know when that time is.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
But have you had to talk any of has any
of you had to talk any of you into not
calling it?

Speaker 3 (49:56):
No, we've never had that conversation. I mean, we've had like,
you know, especially last couple of years, Like, I don't know,
I don't know, right, you know what? What what are
we going to do?

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Did you ever think you were going to give it up? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (50:10):
Yeah, I thought. I've talked about it all the time.
What you know, what? What am I gonna do?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
That's the question. What would you do?

Speaker 3 (50:17):
I don't know, Like I can't. I've done music since
I was a kid, and I've been in a band
since I was a kid. And I'm thirty I'll be
thirty seven in April, and it's all I know how
to do. This music business is like, that's all I know.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
But that doesn't mean you can't work through a lot
of other jobs. I'm not saying you should, but I'm
saying my mind would go all I know is music,
So I can't be in a band. Okay, Well, then
teach you work at record label. Yeah, not that you'd
want to do that. God, No, I mean to be terrible,
I mean that's how.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
Hey, I've entertained all kinds of things in my mind,
you know, But.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
But you really haven't got to the point where you're no,
this is.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
What you're this is what you are supposed to do.
Like I can say that with certainty, like some people
were just born, Like probably how you're doing you're supposed
to do, Bobby, Like I don't know what's supposed to do,
but like whatever, all this is, all these things that
you're doing. You know, it's like that I know you're
supposed to do this band. And I always say this,
like God did not bring you this far to leave you,
and like you have gone through so much and you
have learned so much, and you've gone through so many

(51:15):
trials and tribulations with this band and music.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Industry, and like, well, if you don't stop, it won't stop.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
You've kept who you If you don't give up, ain't
over right.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
And I don't know if I could live with like
not knowing again, you know, and I love it. So
it's just it's like anything anybody does. It's hard. I mean,
you know, being in radio is hard, Being in a
podcaster is hard. Being and anything's tough. And it's wild
that the three of us have just been able to
weather all these storms and then come together stronger each

(51:44):
time and go, all right, well, let's put our heads
down and we always bet on ourselves. You know, when
somebody pulls out like we we double down on ourselves
because we know how to do what we do. I mean,
it's like our craft and and it's just a matter
of time for that for things to move along. Plus
it's like celebrating the first downs, you know, celebrate the
winds and keep moving the chains. Like we all know

(52:08):
enough people in this business and artists that you know,
it's like the graph that you know, you just wanted
to have this trajectory to the highs.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
The stock market. You just wanted to get s be
up more than down, just a good a little higher
more than a little lower.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Yeah, So what's the goal? I mean, the goal is
to you know, build the career, to have a lifestyle
and provide for our families, you know, in a in
a very good way, and like finally reap the rewards
of the hard work with you know, you could say
the clichy thing like all big crowds and sold out

(52:44):
stadiums and all those you know, the obvious stuff, but really,
you know, that's that's what's been really cool about this
headlining tour is going out and meeting the people that
are coming paying just to see us, you know, because
when you're out on a support slot. You know, it's
kind of like a drug, you know. You you get
a big crowd, you get like people screaming, but they're
really there to see the headliner. And we've been support

(53:04):
for so many years and meeting these people after our
show that spent their money to come see us, and
then they tell us stories of like what our songs
have meant to them and what it saved their life
or it's changed their life, or it was there.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
You know.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
We had a guy who retired from the military and
his last his speech to the whole entire retirement party
was our lyrics of a song called Heaven Is Close
and that was the last thing he said. And then
he's been traveling with his wife around the world, living
to the lyrics of the song, and like that's where
it's like, man, that's what we do this for. This
is what I want to do. And you don't ever

(53:41):
have any idea with the impact that you have when
people till somebody tells you that. And I just want
to continue to do that in a larger scale and
spread music, you know, through heal people. Man, I mean,
I guess or give them stories that make them feel
good about what they're going through.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
How are you guys trying to spread your music? Like
what are the what are the we can in say platforms,
but you know you're independent artists now yeah, so do
you guys? Do you put I know what you do.
But it's like, Okay, we're gonna put this music on socials.
We're gonna hopefully it catches. There is it back to

(54:20):
We're just gonna go grind a bunch of shows and
build a base there, Like where do you really look
at it being you guys's strongest chance to grow an audience.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
I think touring for us is like our live show
is where we always have won, and I feel like
that's like hand to hand is where we connect. And
then through social media of course, I mean to be honest,
like social media does like we're I feel like we're
terrible at social media, which I'm sure a lot of
people are. You know. I I don't know how to

(54:51):
gain I'm not an influencer, Like I don't want you
to tune into me, because like I know how to
like influence you on like a a level. Like it's
about music to us. So it's like if you're if
you're with us, you're with us, for music, and I
think for us it's like touring and then releasing as
much music as we can. We got held up in
the system for years where we could not release music

(55:15):
that we.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Like shelved well.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
Yeah, and like getting out of deals and it taking
so long to get out of the deal.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
So you're in the middle of the process. But because
you're in the middle of the process of getting out,
obviously you're not going to put anything out.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Is that but you can't, you know, like legally you can't.
And and so we got held up. I mean that's
like our first record came out in twenty fifteen, and
that's where we had smoke and drunks out on all
those songs that did well. And then right after that
record we got dropped after a number one on a
platinum single. Why And I guess maybe we weren't making

(55:48):
them money back fast enough or there was.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Much was put in you guys too, you.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Know, I don't know. I mean that's a mystery still.
I mean, I'm still close with our team of people
that we were part of that, and it's just it's
odd how quick it shot and how quick it stopped,
like but there was never no, no, no, no, I.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Will say this just to give it a little caveat.
You have never burned a bridge with any person you
have ever worked with. Michael is the coolest, calmest collective
guy under pressure, which is not me. I like lose
my freaking mind. You always keep it cool. I like
I'm learning how to keep it cool. But like you have,
every person you walked away from a deal with, y'all
remain great friends.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
I mean, it's business at the end of the day,
and they have to run their business like we have
to run ours. And maybe my dad like instilled that
in me growing up because he was like a business guy.
But you know, there's always more opportunity. It's like they
can't they can't take away your talent and your ability,
you know. So it's like, well, you just got a
weather whatever kind of comes at you, and we did

(56:52):
it once, why can't we do it again? You know?
And it's funny just like the our our story of
that happening top of the mountain and then off the
mountain and then we got another deal, uh, And we
were gearing up for another ride at the top of
the mountain and then the world shut down and it

(57:12):
canceled all that and then we got out of that
deal because everything changed for everybody, and it.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Took you like a couple of years ago, but it.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Took yeah, it took thirteen months, which you can't do anything.
It was like a year right when everybody was getting
back up and getting on the road. You know. So
we uh, now we're here and we got another record.
We always you know, we go back in and we
bet on ourselves and we make a record. You know,
our first that first record, Southern Alley, we paid for
and made ourselves on credit card debt. And then Big Machine,

(57:40):
our label, heard it, and then you know, that's where
we had success. And then we just so we just
always go back to the what we know how to
do best. It is exhausting, so exhausting, you know.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Yeah, you can be exhausted, you can give up. Yeah,
you know what's better to be exhausted exactly then to
feel like you didn't give it what you Yeah, totally, Yeah, Caroline.
I remember when you first started doing the podcast when
I have a few minutes left here, but I was like,
you're gonna do pretty good. You're gonna make some money.
Oh yeah, you're gonna be successful and you're like, I

(58:13):
don't care. I'm like, yeah, you do.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
That's a Caroline answer.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
It's like I just want to like talk to people
and like, you're right. But I think that's why you're
successful is because it's never been about let me make
this a successful, you know venture. For me, it's like,
let me do what I can do the best, and
then it shakes out. It shakes out. But I think
that's been the key to your success.

Speaker 5 (58:39):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Do you feel like the podcast has gotten to a level,
like a successful level in your mind where you can
look at it and go proud of.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
It, super proud of it. I can definitely super proud
of it. I feel like I when it comes to
like what how do you define how do you define success? Like,
I feel like do I wish that like there were
more listeners? Yes, but I think there's good listeners, But like,
do I wish that I will? We're are my lives
mirror each other a lot because Michael and I have

(59:23):
been I feel like we're both really great at what
we do at this point, and it just hasn't like
tipped over the edge until like being what I know
it could be. I do believe that. I believe my
podcast is what I'm supposed to do. Like I really
like having conversations and sharing people's stories, and it's healed me,

(59:45):
Like I have healed myself through it because I used
to always feel like everybody had everything figured out and
I didn't know anything, and I was so insecure and
like just wanted to talk to all these people who
I thought knew how to do life. Well, we're pushing it,
and I realized.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
That nobody knows how, nobody know who's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Got to do live, and you can learn from each other.
And that's why I love the conversations, like us having
one with you. It's like you get to connect with
people and you get to like drop your guard and
your barrier and you're like, okay, we're all humans. Like
let's like compile some information here that can help us
and like help others, and then also like just make
you realize that like humanity can be really great. Like
we're so divided in the world and so many things,

(01:00:25):
but like if you just sit down and have a
heart to heart with somebody, you actually realize everybody has
a soul, and everybody's a good person. We've just all
gone through so many different battle wounds that have made
us all armor up, and so I love to get
to the soul of somebody and really feel like, why
why are you the way you are? What happened? Let's

(01:00:46):
talk about it so we can actually like understand it
and then help heal ourselves and heal others. I don't know,
I just love it. I feel like it's a higher
calling for me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Now, you're always gonna want more listeners. Heck I want
more listeners. Yeah, you never done. I was looking up
some I was going to look up some some data
on just your show. I'm not going to read them.
But what we're gonna say, Michael.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
Oh, I was just saying, it's like the obvious things,
you know. It's like people, it's like I want this,
and it's like, well, yeah, everybody wants a lot of money.
Everybody wants more this, more that, But it's like, what's
your core?

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I really I really just care about the connection. I
really do. Like I want to make the money. I
of course I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
We all have to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Yes, you got to make money, but like I really
genuinely love the connection of it, like I love.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
It well you you make a pretty good amount of money.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
It's thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
I'm very much point like it's it's very hard to
it can be any art, painting, music, podcasting. Everybody wants
to do it because it seems fun. So it's really
hard to have to gain any traction and to sustain
a living doing it, much less sustain a like a healthy,

(01:01:56):
safe feeling living. But you've been able to do that
just by I mean eight years of just doing this one. Yeah,
And sometimes people will be like, I want to do
a podcast like Carelines. I mean, she just started and
she's killing it, and I'm like, you have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Doing it forever.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
But I remember early conversations and when it was just me,
you and Mike can be like, you're gonna do this forever,
and it's going to feel like you've been doing it
for a hundred years. People are just now going to
hear about it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
You told me that because you've been such a great
mentor Bobby, thank you by the way for that. You
really have been great, and being on your network has
been amazing, and I feel like we have had those
conversations where I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
She's spending It's like what am I doing?

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Why am I even doing this? Like podcast? Like is
this even worth it? Like is it even? Like should
I quit?

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
But that's I had to deal with those same issues
where I would be like I don't want to do
this stupid simple thing anymore, but it would be like, no, no,
you're doing it and people are just now discovering it,
even though you've been doing it for twelve years. And
the same thing with your podcast, and it's just hanging
in there, hanging in there. You're good, hang in there.

(01:03:06):
Let everybody else find out you're good. Sometimes it takes
a while, sometimes it doesn't. But I'm really proud of you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Oh my God. But just what I tell Michael and
I both thank you, Thank you, Bobby. I tell Michael
this all the time. I'm like, God has done too
much work on us to not use us. Like I'm like,
we have been whittled down so far, got into so
many like truths about ourselves, about life, We've learned so
many lessons, We've understood hard things about ourselves, and like

(01:03:31):
we've done a lot of hard work. I'm like, I
can't imagine God not wanting to use us like I
feel like we are here for the higher cause. Now
at this point, where are we so started? It was
here because we were both like trying to fill avoid
within ourselves or like run away from pain or whatever.
But now it's like, okay, we're here to I'm here

(01:03:52):
to help, Like I'm here to help myself, I'm here
to help. Everyone's listening. I want us all to leave
this podcast, leave this interview, leave this situation feeling hopeful
about life because I feel like life can be so
hopeless a lot of times, especially, you need those resources
to help you realize like, Okay, you can make this.
You can do this. This person went through this, they
made it. Here's some tools we can come together. We

(01:04:14):
can talk about this. Don't feel shamed, don't feel guilty,
don't feel embarrassed, don't feel insecure. Like we're all in it,
but we need to talk about it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
So as a final exercise, Okay, we've done nour but
let me say Caroline's podcast is get Real, Michael's bands
a thousand Horses, Ian, I can go through bunch of
thongs about the outside, can just say that they just
search the outside and see the whole thing the album.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
Yeah, well no, because we have the No, we don't
have that all yet.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, I know, but even like part part of us
upso yeah yeah yeah, just yeah. But you can't search
the outside because I know. So did you have to
go search the songs individually? Well, you just go to
our you know, I need to know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
Can they say, yeah, summer is the last song we
just read.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Don't you put us? You have a song called the Outside?

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Yep, it's coming.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Okay, Well do that so then everybody will know, okay,
will be waiting so long.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Now, can you give us some tools on how to
like still hit it in the marketing scheme?

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Probably anybody that promises you they can do that are
full of crap.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
I agree completely, Yeah, they.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Just want your money. I could be like, this is
what I did, this is what I think works. But
anybody that goes I got you, they're so full of crap.
It's so here's our final okay, So go, uh just
check out a thousand horses.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
Yeah, just go stream one thousands.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Yeah there you go. Go go to a show, yeah,
get a tattoo of a lyric. Yeah, do that, although
you don't make any money from that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
But no, it's all right, spreads love.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
You could just charge like you could be a license
a licensing deal for series. Our final exercise here, because
we all know each other and we all have jobs,
and Caroline's a podcaster like myself. You're gonna everybody's going
to ask the other two people a final question. It

(01:05:55):
doesn't matter what it is, but everybody's going to ask
the other two people. So Caroline, you'll ask Michael a question.
You'll ask me a question, Michael, You'll ask me a Karen.
Then I'll end and ask each of you an individual question,
not together. So Caroline, I feel like you were born
for this. I'm gonna make you go first. I want
you to ask Michael a question.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Do I ask you the same question?

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Oh? Man, you got him right here on Mike.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
What what when you look back on your lafe Michael,
He says, when I look back on my life, When
you look back on your life, what do you hope
you can say?

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
It's a good one. It's a hard one.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
That is a hard one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Well, it's just so open. It's like you can go
wherever you want to with it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
What's gonna What are the things that matter to you?
The most that you hope you can say you lived.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
This, I look back on my life.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
What if I want to say, I honestly, our daughter's
happy and healthy, like is she is given everything to
achieve every goal and dream that she wants. Like that's
that's that's definitely the driving force now that I have.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
What would you say is success contentment for you? When
do you feel happy?

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Did she get two questions?

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
She just barged in and did it? What am I going
to do? Stop your game? No, I'm just watching. If
you can jump in one more, I answer the bonus one? Yeah? Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
What was the question?

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
When do you feel happy? Success and happy?

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
What is?

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
What is that really for you?

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Success and happiness? Man? I would.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
I don't know. I'm trying to just answer it and
there's no pressures. There is not a right wrong answer.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Answer me up, don't think it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
I mean to me like success and and and in
my music career and more successful a music career, but
success in in our marriage and and then being a dad.
I mean that's I know that sounds really cheesy and cliche,
but that that's the truth. Like what mean what things
mean to me now? Or that those are the most

(01:08:30):
important things to me in the long run, and having
a good relationship. You know, I watched the interview of
a guy the other day that said, when your kids
get older and they still want to be around you,
that's the success story, you know, opposed to having a
ton of money and having a ton of this and
all this stuff that you can't take with you and
it doesn't matter. Those are great things and they make

(01:08:51):
a life convenient. But at the end of the day
that great relationships.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
I want to have.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
Great relationships is a definition of success for me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
You got there, You got there, and I mean work
through it. Yeah, got his answer? All right, go ahead,
experience Okay, Bobby. I wasn't there for you though, Michael.
That's a good thing. Yeah. I let you hang. Yeah. Yeah.
You were just on the fishing line, are you Sometimes
I just need that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Bobby, you have lived a lot of life that the
majority of the population will never experience. You've had some
serious mountaintop experiences, like peak experiences. Now that you have
accomplished so many things that are so hard to do,

(01:09:38):
what does it all mean to you and what are
you ultimately trying to achieve? Because you have achieved so
many things. What are you? What is the ultimate goal
that you are trying to achieve now? And what does
it all mean to you that you have achieved this.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
I don't know the goal, and I think that's where
Caitlin and I will talk about this. She's like, what's
the goal? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Okay, you don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
If the goal is to not feel inferior. I don't
so much care about wins. I care about not losing.
And I think a lot of my successes have come
from I'm not going to If I great things happen,
if I win, if I get okay, cool, But if
for some reason I don't get it, I'm humiliated.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
So you is that go back to your childer child? Absolutely,
because your little boy didn't feel safe, correct, and didn't
feel seen or loved or protected correct, And so if
you were to have been lost or humiliated and made
fun of it would have been devastating because you didn't
feel supported. Yeah, to work through it, per se.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
And I think I was a lot of that, and
this is you know, childhood stuff. But I don't have
a goal except for not to feel humiliated and lost.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Because it takes you back to that heartbreaking pain.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
It's just that that trauma that we're all built by
our own traumas, and everybody's got their own. But I
don't have a goal, And anything that I've accomplished has
been fear of not accomplishing it more than accomplishing it.
You know, if I put a book out, I'm gonna
embarrass if it's not a bestseller. So I'm gonna freaking
kill myself until it is. What's gonna happen once it is?

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
I don't care what if it's not a bestseller?

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Has it?

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
So everything you've done as an adult has.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
No not everything? You just don't see the stuff that
doesn't work when.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Because you have a whole book called fail until you
don't know there's.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
I mean, I would probably say it's nine or ten
to one failures to success. We just don't see the failures.
Why I wrote the freaking book.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Because it's like, have you felt that pain?

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Though? Oh yeah, I feel like loser all the time constantly.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
You know now that other people feel that way, right,
you know, like you now know that like other people
have the same issues, but you still.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
Yeah, I think I'm better at knowing it exists so
I can acknowledge it, so it's not as severe as
it used to be, but it still is in there.
But it's also why I go to therapy and why
I work on myself. But yeah, my success has never
been about accomplishing things. It's been about not being able
to not accomplish things, which is not a healthy way
to live.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
But you know, I feel like so many of us
are operating off of your base success most a lot
of people are. It takes a minute, Like my mom
also told me this, like the first half. This is
from Richard Rohor who's like a very wise thinker, but
like the first half of your life is just like
surviving your life, like having all these situations happen to you,
like you have all these things, you have to weather,

(01:12:20):
you have all these like so many people have horrible
trauma that happens right in the beginning. And I have
noticed if you have trauma that happens like big, big
trauma when you are younger, everyone's gonna have trauma. But like,
if you have the trauma happen when you're younger, you
don't have any other example that life isn't just this trauma,
you know, Like I've had some trauma later in my life,

(01:12:42):
but like I knew that that wasn't the only way
life is, you know, Like I knew that, like this
was just a traumatic season that has to do with
like miscarriages. But it's like I knew that, like that's
not the entirety of my existence.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
You had a foundation.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Yeah, so I'm in a trauma season. But like when
you're born into trauma and like kind of how you had,
like with a brother who was sick and all that,
like you just kind of think that's normal.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
It's normal.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
So I think it's a lot harder to rewire when
you are just born into intense trauma, and it takes
a lot longer because like the first half of your
life is just navigating the hands that you're dealt, you know,
And then only until you get older and you have
like the ability to be an adult and make your
own decisions and like work on yourself, you're like, oh
my god, I don't that's not how it's supposed to be.

(01:13:27):
But you've had all these years of just surviving it
because you had to.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
And I definitely don't think I'm the only I think
we all have our traumas. Yeah, I think I've been
very lucky to figure out what mine is and how
it affects me. Now, that's huge, but everybody has them.
I don't think mine's any worse than anybody else's in
different ways.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
I think you just got it young.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Yeah, I do too. I think again, my foundation was
built on having no just having no love. Yeah right, yeah,
but I think that's my answer to that question. Is
I accomplished. I think it's cool and fine and stuff,
but not a things terrible, miserable. So I don't I
don't have a goal except to not feel that way,

(01:14:05):
which is not healthy. But I know that, so that's healthy.
Now I'm trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Yes, it's huge that you have that awareness.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
All right, Michael, you're up, buddy, Give give her a question.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Oh this is great. I'm always one. Michael and I
sit down in his office after Someday goes to bed,
and literally we have like two hours worth of conversations
where I just grill him with therapy. So I'm happy
to hear you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
It can be any question at all, Any question like
this is even simple. Absolutely what your favorite color? It
doesn't matter what it is. Yeah, anything is that's learning
about her yellow That is.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Not my favorite color yellow.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Yeah, that's why you get divorced. Now after this, we
just you just heard the first fight. Go ahead, okay, question.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
I think I'm gonna ask you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
Do not ask the same question?

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Well, no, no, no, he just phrase it different Spanish, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (01:14:59):
Speak.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
She also can't tell you what to ask.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
You can't ask me the same.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
I'll play fullback here. Okay, you can do whatever you want.
I'll block for you. You have the same question, though,
maybe you inspired a similar thought though mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Mm hmmm, because I want to know what you want
to be known for when you look back on your life.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
That's the same question.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
But I do you ask me that? Why can't I
ask you that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
I agree? I side with Michael and a fool back
over here. He's got he's backing it up.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Well, I don't. This is going to sound no, it's
not tough for me. This is going to sound super
like negative, and it's not negative, and I don't. I'm
not like a dark person, but like being human. I
don't like a lot of the human experience like I
personally do not just like love human ing. I think
it is very hard to be human. I don't like

(01:15:49):
having to interact with all these people and all their
emotional debrees and my emotional degree and all the trauma
of life and people like not connecting and getting along,
and all the pain that people cause each other and
all that, Like, I don't like it. I don't like tragedies.
I don't like a lot of the human experience. I
do not prefer and I don't think fame is cool

(01:16:10):
because I think when you get famous, I think you
have all these people then that get involved with your life,
and then you have like all this whole other world
of like energy on you that like, I don't like
all the energy. Like I'm so sensitive to energies. I'm
such an impath that like I literally like walk in
a room and if I like really don't guard myself up,
I will feel every single thing that every person in

(01:16:30):
the room is feeling. And then I before I worked
on myself a lot, I would just be depressed about it.
I would cry about it. I'll think about people all
the time. I think about all the things that happened
to them, and I just like get overwhelmed with the
human experience. And so I don't necessarily like if we reincarnate,
I just pray this is my last life, Like I'm
just ready for to go to the next place, Like
I just want anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
I love humane human yakay.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
So I for me, it is so to me that
I'm in alignment with myself, Like I know when I'm
doing something that feels totally in sync with my soul,
that feels like this is one of the gifts I have.
This is how I can help people, help myself. I
don't like causing conflict with people. I don't like causing stress.

(01:17:16):
I like to feel just easy with people in life.
And so Sonny is I really didn't have a real
purpose for life until Sonny came around, because I was
just trying to like make things happen, pursue career endeavors,
like make something happen for my own personal game. But

(01:17:37):
like I've never really loved being a human anyway, So
it's not like I'm really like trying to I don't
really care about the personal game because I just I
just I know there's something so much bigger happening as
far as like God and while we're here, but like
we have to live this human life. So anyway, I'm
rambling and people are gonna think I'm a looney tune,
but I am.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
If they did, they would have already thought that, yeah,
you're not really doing anything. Yeah we're good. Yeah yeah,
So your answer would be my.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
Answer would be to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
That's the doorbell up in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
I want to have peace in my life. I want
to have peace in my life. I want to feel peaceful.
I want to have the most amazing relationship with Sonny,
which I'm so thankful that I do. Like I just
being with her is the absolute like joy of my existence.

(01:18:31):
Like I don't care about it. I just I don't know,
Like I think, what was your question?

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
What do you want to be known for?

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
What do you want to be known?

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
I don't care what people know me for.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
But really I.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Want to be peaceful, and then however anybody wants to
think of me is fine. I want to I want
to be known in my heart that I am a
good person. I've done well, I've done the best I can.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
So yours is more what you want to know you for?

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
Because I don't care what people know. I don't know
what people are going to think of me anyway, and
I can't figure.

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
It out to change my answer, all right, Michael hit me, okay,
doctor bones in the house.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
Literally it can be which peper color? Yeah, no, don't don't.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
Are you gonna run for any kind of political office?

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
I hope not in Arkansas? I hope not, Okay, meaning
I only feel like I will if I'm like this
sucks and I feel like I need to, you might
need to. I feel like I probably will. But would
it be like a governor thing or I don't know.
I hope not. No, Okay, I hope not a right,

(01:19:37):
but you would do? I feel like I probably will
at some point, yes, okay, cool, But I hope not.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
You would, but you are you would? You could handle
all that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
I'm already used to people hating me for no reason
or people you know, you never really get used to it.
But I my skin is thick, yeah you know, and
you can handle it. I think I could handle it
in a way. I don't need it for any reason.
I don't need it for money. I don't need it
for fame. I think those are the two things that

(01:20:05):
a lot of people go they want power. Yeah, I
don't need it. I got more of a platform all
of that that I would leave this to do. I
have more doing this than I would doing that where
I feel like a lot of people become corrupt in power,
corrupt in because it's new, right right right? I mean
the politicians are the new rock stars, right So I

(01:20:28):
hope not. But probably final questions for me, Caroline, what
I need thirty seconds? Caroline to answer this question in
thirty seconds? Okay, that's part of the here. What do
you see in Sonny that she got from Michael?

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
Her joyful spirit? She is always doesn't meet a stranger,
She loves life, she always finds the joy, and I
definitely think she got that from you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
Michael. Well, if you put parameters on her, she's awesome. Yeah,
just if you just leaned back and from her. Yeah,
I've done enough podcast whe her to know you can
either sit back and enjoy the ride or buckle in
and here we go. Michael, what about her? Still You're like, Ah,
it's cool, She's she's still like this like your wife,

(01:21:23):
don't care, Like yeah, where you're like, when know we've
been together forever, but it's still so cool. She's still
like this her.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
You're like your your your love and spirit for life,
Like I know you just said, like I'm always sad
about it like you you have such a light about
you that you've never lost, like even even in the things.
And you're you're such a supportive, like amazing cheerleader in person,
not only for me but for our daughter and your
friends and people you love. And like that is you've

(01:21:56):
always been that way since the day I met you,
Like you've always had a light every time you walk
into a room, you always talk to everybody. You're always
so personal and you're sweet to people, Like you're a
good person and you're sweet to people, like and the
thing is, like a lot of people may think that
is bullshit, but like I've known you for fifteen years,
like it, it's just legit.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
You're nice, You're yeah yeah, And I haven't known you
like he has. But I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
I don't want people to be sad. I don't like
people to be sad.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
I don't like I think you make yourself said where
I father, people are sad.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
And I've been sad a long time because I've been
so sad that people are sad. So I've had to
like work on that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
But well, guys, look we've done Mike Colin, We've been
doing this. I think we starting on Monday, and it's
Wednesday now, yeah, it's been three days now, yes, four
days later. Mike's got a beard, So follow Caroline. Just
go to It's Carrow Hobby at Carrol Hobby, Michael's at
Michael Hobby. Also a thousand horses. Go follow them on

(01:22:48):
socials only if you like the music though, because they've
giving you any of that now we'll give you live.
They even know that rubbed up crap. Just influencers and
they picked up my groceries and they walked it down here.
Yeah that was nice.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Hey you ordered from Thrive. That's a that's honestly everyone
I don't know about Thrive. It's the best online shopping,
so so good.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
All right, that's it, Thank you all, Thank you Bobby,
thanks for having us. This is good stuff. And let's
start recording now. Mike, I know we did this whole
warm up.

Speaker 5 (01:23:13):
Yeah, all right, thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast
production
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