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July 2, 2024 82 mins

In this special episode, we've taken stories from past episodes where Bobby talked with some of Nashville's best female songwriters! You'll hear from Liz Rose, Lori McKenna, Natalie Hemby, Nicolle Galyon, Heather Morgan, Jessi Alexander, Emily Weisband, Jessie Jo Dillon and Sarah Buxton. These ladies have written some of the biggest hits for some of the biggest artists, including: Taylor Swift, Miranda Lambert, Keith Urban, Brett Eldredge and Dan + Shay! They'll share stories about being super vulnerable, what inspired them to write these songs and what put them on the map as Nashville's best songwriters.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
We are experiencing technical difficulties.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
This is the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey, welcome to a special episode of the Bobby Cast.
What's been Cool? Over the years, I've sat down with
so many amazing songwriters who have written some of the
biggest hits in country music. And in this episode, I'm
shining the spotlight on the female songwriters that I've talked to.
I mean, they're awesome. They've written hits for Miranda Lambert,
Keith Urban, Brett Eldridge, Miley Cyrus, Faith Hill, Dan and
Shay the list goes on. Really cool episode here to

(00:33):
hear stories from women who are really at the heart
of these songs that we hear on the radio every day. Now,
I'm going to play some clips from interviews that I've
done with Liz Rose, who was known for writing a
lot of the early Taylor stuff, Laurie McKenna, Natalie Hemby,
Nicole Gallion. I could keep going, but I'm not going
to because I want you to hear this. They talk
about their inspiration for songs, how to write a great song,

(00:54):
how their songs get into the hands of major artists.
So let's kick things off with Liz Rose. You know
I mentioned he Ller Swift. She wrote songs like you
Belong with Me and Tim McGraw with Taylor back when
Taylor was a teenager. Here she is les Rose. Okay,
so here you are you start songwriting and.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
How old about thirty eight?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
It's a whole new career.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
For me.

Speaker 5 (01:19):
Back then, I was raising I was a single mom,
so I had a kid in college and I had
two little girls. And if somebody said I'm going to
pay you X amount to do this, I said yes,
And I figured out how to do it because I
was just paying the bills, you know, never dreaming that
I would make enough money to really live on or

(01:40):
retire on. I I just thought, Okay, there's a little
bit extra money each month, I'll do this. So that's
kind of how I never looked at the big picture,
because I knew the big picture was not great. I mean,
I worked with songwriters, but I didn't care. I was
I had a publishing company, I was writing songs, and
I had this thing over here, and I mean I

(02:02):
just kept moving.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
I just keep going.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I was on a flight once, I think it was
from maybe Texas to Nashville, and I was getting out
to fly. This is about five years ago, and that
person I was with say, hey, do you know that
wasn't behind you us? I did not. She was that's
the one who wrote all the songs with Taylor Swift.
And I said, oh, I didn't. I didn't know that.
And so I saw you then and I thought, oh,

(02:26):
you know, how about that? That's cool? I didn't. I
didn't at that time. I didn't know many songwriters. I
don't really got into the world. You end up having
friends that make their living by creating and either putting
it out themselves or giving it to other people. And
so now I remember back to that flight and first
of all, going, why is the one who wrote all
the songs with Taylor Swift flying Southwest? That's what I
was thinking, because I love Southwest? I do too. I

(02:47):
love Southwest too, and people give it a hard time.
But do you feel like that's been phase maybe two
of your identity, the Taylor Swift Because and now I
did I know you as Liz rose from as a
writer more from the Love Junkies than I do the
Taylor Swift stuff. But I wonder where that falls into
your phases in your in the creative part of your life.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
It's funny because my first phase was.

Speaker 5 (03:13):
Songs about rain, and I was getting Leam Womat cuts
and Trisha Yearwood cuts, and I had a certain thing
that I did that everybody really really loved, which is
why Taylor started writing with me. Was that thing and
just the I don't know, I think it was the pictures,
the descriptive if I I learned how to do it.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
And I and I and I.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
Was pretty good at it, just writing those pictures, and
so I think that she heard and then she heard
me sing a couple of those songs and asked me
to write. So my first phase was really songs about rain.
You know, I felt like I was Everybody thought I was,
oh man, she's cool. She's writing with Past McLoughlin and

(04:00):
they're writing, you know, songs like that. And then the
tailor thing happened and it was no different. I just
you know, it was like my second or third rite
on Tuesdays or Wednesdays, I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
So I just did it.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
This this girl showed up.

Speaker 5 (04:17):
She came in with a melody and an idea, and
she was exciting and excited, and it was hour and
a half two hours, and I just kept doing it,
never really thinking about that. But when it really blew up,
I was I can remember people going, why are you
writing with a fourteen year old? And I said, well,
because she comes in and it's easy and it's fun.

(04:40):
You know, I love listening to her stories. So I
caught once it blew up, you know, everybody was like, wow,
I can't believe you were so smart to do that.
I just did it because I liked doing it. So
that was a phase because suddenly I was the person
that wrote songs for sixteen year old girls, and.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
I had to go through a lot.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
Of explaining to people that that was not me, it
was Taylor and so and it was real easy to
kind of lean back during those years, you know, and
then I kind of had to like really hit it
to get that to go, Okay, but I can do

(05:26):
this and I can do this. Yeah, and so crazy
Girl win in the ACM that year kind of that
that helped a lot. And then girl Crush for me,
and and perception wise it didn't go, oh, the Taylor
Swift thing is off. It's just like it just added
to it. You know that the Taylor Swift years will

(05:49):
always be part huge part you know of what I did,
and do you know if she called me right now,
I'd go.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
You know, they feel like the Taylor stuff. Do you
try to get a bit away from that? Now? Is
that the first thing brought up everywhere? Because again I
don't only know you as Taylor the Tailor writer, I
know you as the Love Junkies writer.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
Well, I don't try and get away from it, because
I'm really proud of it. It's a huge part of
my life in my career and a lot I had
a career before, but my career is you know, it
will always be connected to having those Tailor songs, and
I'm really proud of them, and I and I never
you know, I just I'm so lucky, you know, and

(06:38):
we wrote such great songs. So I don't try and
get away from it.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
What I do.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
What I do try and do and I don't always,
is that I continue to get people that want to
interview me and want and they start talking and then
they don't want to talk about anything but Taylor, and
I'm like, that was kind of ten years ago, and
I'm not going to give you information on Taylor I
don't have.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
So they're digging for.

Speaker 5 (07:03):
Digging for Taylor, and they're trying to make like this
is not what we're doing, but they try and make
their story. You know, they're they're whatever they're doing is
is they can you know, highlight Taylor's name in it?
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, to be fair, I think people just want clicks
the same way the songs want plays. And if they're
chasing a click, the kind of story, what's the best
headline to put in there? But and I just wondered
that about you. If so many people are coming to
you to get the clickbait stuff to go, it's not
even clickbait, Like it's interesting, you know the fact that
you know Taylor Swift was playing Tim McGraw that the
first time Amy metter at our radio station. Like you

(07:40):
wrote that with Taylor right and right roll together. I mean,
when you sit down and write a song about an
artist again, we're talking about writing about personal people, about people.
That'd be weird to get that to Tim right?

Speaker 3 (07:52):
You know?

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Is it so long ago? No?

Speaker 6 (07:55):
I can.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
It's funny. I she was just sincere.

Speaker 5 (08:01):
She said, I want to write a song called when
you think Tim McGraw, And I thought, okay, I mean
you know, if you don't cut it, nobody, nobody's gonna
cut it. But okay, you want to write it. It's
your song, these are your songs.

Speaker 7 (08:13):
Let's just do it.

Speaker 5 (08:14):
And I just didn't overthink it. And you know, that's
that's what I did with her. I just didn't overthink it.
I felt like she was writing her songs and I
let her and that's why it worked between us.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
And so I thought, God, that's so.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
Nervy, you know, It's like okay, and then she, you know,
sang it to Tim McGraw's Crazy.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
I remember seeing that words show. I think we did
sing it? Is that cool for you?

Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (08:41):
I was just so proud of her.

Speaker 8 (08:42):
I was.

Speaker 5 (08:43):
I was always like a proud momb with her, you
know anything, you know, just because she always reinvented the wheel,
as she still does.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Laurie McKenna talked about how Faith they'll put her on
the map as a songwriter and why Tim McGraw song
Humble and Kind was so special for her write. So
this gets interested to Faith and she says, hey, I
love your song, Like, how does that first conversation happen?

Speaker 9 (09:05):
So what happened was I put out this record called Bittertown.
And the reason I know these dates is rare because
I never know dates. But my son David was born
May tenth, two thousand and four, so I know.

Speaker 10 (09:19):
It's two thousand and four.

Speaker 9 (09:20):
And I put this record called Bitter Ten out and
it had most of those songs on it, and Mary
over the summer, I think at some point played it
for Melanie Howard. Melanie called me like August and said,
I want to pitch your songs around town?

Speaker 10 (09:35):
Is that cool?

Speaker 9 (09:35):
And I had been here once. I did a round
at the Bluebird and it was probably like two years earlier,
like two thousand and three maybe, and never listened to
country music. I didn't grow up listening to country music.
I didn't know much about it. And my husband and
I came home and like a month after that first trip,
I was like, hey, man, are you listening to the
country radio station? And he's like, like it just like

(09:59):
got us of us were like hooked from kind of
that moment on and and she called She's like, you know,
I'd love to picture songs around town, and I was like,
that would be brilliant. I don't know what that means,
you know, pitch away. And then by Thanksgiving. Faith had
cut the songs, so I don't know. I think Faith
the story I heard. By that point, Faith had cut
a bunch of songs for that record.

Speaker 10 (10:22):
That record came.

Speaker 11 (10:23):
Out the following.

Speaker 9 (10:26):
August, so Aboudy, you know, two thousand and five, and
you know it was called Fireflies, and all you know,
for those songs to be on there. It was the
first song I heard, you know, coming out of Faith's mouth,
was Fireflies. I went to Missy's house and she played
you know, I sat down and she played it for me,
and I didn't I was not emotionally prepared for what

(10:49):
it did to me. It literally and looking back now
that I kind of understand where I was at that point.
You know, my husband, I had five kids, and I'm
just like, still, I still do this. I'm doing little shows,
making records, and you know, he's a plumber, he works
for the gas company, and we get all these kids.
And I swear when I heard her, I heard her

(11:10):
saying fireflies, I just broke open. And it was really
my first experience of of just like tears of joy,
but it seems so sad like it looks sad I
think on the on the surface, but it was just
like this weight had been lifted off my shoulder, and
I knew, like I could keep making music.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
So you're making music and they hear your record a bit,
Did you want to be an artist and move to town?

Speaker 6 (11:33):
I didn't want.

Speaker 9 (11:34):
I did have a record deal because that because because
of faith, you know, I did end up making a
record on Warner Brothers. But I kind of always knew
that I wasn't probably going to move here. My kids
were all school, you know, my husband's job, my family,
I'm super tight with my family, and so I didn't
think I would ever move here. And I knew I
didn't want to be in the road the way you know.
These artists they you know, you know, I mean, it

(11:56):
is a hard life, and and I just, you know,
I just didn't.

Speaker 10 (12:01):
I knew I couldn't do that.

Speaker 9 (12:02):
When when Tim and Fate did Soda Soul in two
thousand and seven, I went out with them for about
five weeks and I had three of the kids with me,
and I loved that. You know, I knew I could
do it in little, tiny little pockets, but I couldn't.
I couldn't put in what these artists, you know, give
every night to to to their to their art. You know.

(12:22):
I just the songwriting part of it is like, I'll
be doing that until you know, they peel me, peel
the guitar away from me.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
A lot of my friends will go right with you.
They'll and they'll go up to near Boston where you live.
They're like, I'm gonna go right with Laurie and so.
And you just go to your house.

Speaker 10 (12:40):
Yeah, we just sit in the basement.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
What so, walk me through that. So you knock on
the door and you answer, and we have a guitar on.

Speaker 4 (12:51):
I wear a guitar.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
You're already riding. Well, how does that work?

Speaker 10 (12:56):
I have a g core playing as the door open.

Speaker 9 (12:58):
No, yeah, we we you know, as long as you
like children and guitars and dogs. Basically we have so
many dogs right now. But we just sit in the
basement and write. I don't write when I'm by myself.
I don't write in the basement, but I have a
little writing room in the basement.

Speaker 10 (13:13):
What I found was people.

Speaker 9 (13:15):
I think, if you write in Nashville every day and
you're such a part of this community, which you know,
I come once or twice a month, and I love it,
love it.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
Love it. Lowit.

Speaker 10 (13:24):
But if you did, if I did that.

Speaker 9 (13:25):
Every day, I think I would, you know, want to
take a trip somewhere else and sit in a different
room too.

Speaker 10 (13:30):
But I think people up there playing up.

Speaker 9 (13:33):
In my neck of the woods will come by, or
if sometimes I'm really lucky and I'll just have some
of that, will come up for two or three days
and just you know, we write, literally, you know, write songs,
panera bread, go to dinner, drop them off with the
hotel next day, write songs.

Speaker 10 (13:51):
It's like all we have. So it's like we just.

Speaker 9 (13:53):
Write and write until they have to take a plane home.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Anytime that either my group or I do comedy, it's
some we'll reopening. We'd go up into the Northeast, even
to Boston a couple all right with Laurie, I'll see
you tonight. Way back on the show, I was like,
all right, good luck. That's awesome. And you know you
talk about writing alone, which you and I think that
maybe you've said this. Other people said, like you started

(14:17):
like writing a little prayer, like like a loan in
the kitchen. Is that what it is?

Speaker 9 (14:23):
Started when the kids were little, I would just like
pick while they were you know, putting them in to bed.

Speaker 10 (14:29):
I would for years I sat.

Speaker 6 (14:31):
It's kind of strange one to think about it.

Speaker 10 (14:33):
I would just sit in their rooms. We the first
the first.

Speaker 9 (14:36):
House we lived in, the three oldest boys all slept
in the same bedroom. It was just like there was
It was a two bedroom house, but one of the
bedrooms was really big, so all the boys were in
there and I would just sit and play guitar until
they all fell asleep. I don't know how they ever
did it, to be honest and think about it. And
then you know, it's like your life changes, like my
pattern of writing changes for a while when they were

(14:58):
all in school, like i'd have I had an easier
time in the morning, like start off right after I
dropped them off at school, and then sort of worked
through the day. When I still do that sometimes my
two youngest are homeschooling right now, so it's a little different,
but humbling kind.

Speaker 10 (15:13):
For example, it was like I just sat.

Speaker 9 (15:14):
In the same chair from like eight in the morning
until you know, probably ate at night and I just
pick away. When I'm writing by myself, it's best for
me to like work on it, like do a load
of laundry, come.

Speaker 10 (15:26):
Back, call it my husband's coming home. I sing it doom,
you know.

Speaker 9 (15:30):
And then make dinner and and my brain works kind
of well that way.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
I love your version of humbling kind love it so much.

Speaker 9 (15:38):
Well, my granm made that song so much better.

Speaker 11 (15:40):
He really did.

Speaker 9 (15:41):
It's funny because he always credits me for the phrasing.
And we did this talk together, the two of us,
in front of an audience, and they played the work tape,
which neither one of us had listened to in a
long time, and he had just gotten through like saying,
I just copied the work tape, and then we listened
to it.

Speaker 10 (15:57):
I'm looking at him like, no, you did it. I
copy him now.

Speaker 9 (16:02):
It's funny, But the version McGraw has is just my iPhone.
It's just and I had just written it, and it
takes me a minute sometimes to get phrasing and to
singing to the song and to sort of like I
actually changed the line. His version of the last line says,
you know, when you get where you're going, don't forget

(16:24):
turned back around. And by the time I got to it,
I realized I couldn't fit all those words, so mine
just says turn right back around. But it's small, little detail.
But that's for a long time. When I wrote a song,
I would even have to play it to an audience
a lot before I really I don't know, it's before

(16:44):
I really knew the song. Or sometimes it still happens
where I'll play if it's a new song, I'll I
have to play it for an audience and then sort
of find out if I like it or not.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Sometimes you need to play it to them as if
you like it.

Speaker 10 (16:56):
Sometimes are you looking for the.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
When when you're playing something for you to see if
you like it.

Speaker 9 (17:02):
I think it's like I actually, when I thought about this,
like years ago, I think if I was to describe that,
I would think, oh, I'd sort of be looking for
their approval. And now I think what it is is,
I'm just sort of looking for my comfort level in
the song. Like it, am I comfortable singing every word
of this song to these you know, in front of
somebody versus just by yourself.

Speaker 6 (17:22):
It's a very different thing.

Speaker 9 (17:24):
So it takes me a little bit to wrap my
head around them.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Sometimes with art, obviously impossible to predict any sort of
success or failure. I think it's a beauty and art, yeah,
you never know. Yeah, with humble and kind, and with
Tim cutting it, did you feel like that there was
something special to his version and what he was saying
about the song, because again he comes to me before
the record's even now and it's like, Bobby, this song's

(17:49):
going to be massive. Did you feel like I could
do that?

Speaker 9 (17:52):
It's funny because I didn't know exactly that. I didn't
know that he was going to cut it, to be honest,
for a little bit. And it's funny because I think
he had it for like a month and then I
don't know if I saw him or I don't know
exactly what happened, but he's like, yeah, I'm cuting that song.
It's like, oh thanks, I didn't know, you know, nobody
told me. And then once it was cut, he was

(18:13):
going to make the video. And when the video came out,
they sent me like a rough of the video, and
I thought, what is going on?

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like, how how did he How can this possibly be
the video?

Speaker 9 (18:25):
You know, because it's so worldly and so that's you know,
I always tease and say I should give him some
some co writing credit on that song because he really
sees it and brought it to a way different place
than I. I still see it as such a simple
little It's a very simple song. Every every line has

(18:45):
to rhyme with kind It's like the easiest rhyme. It's
a very simple form. You know, each verse ends in
the same line. And I still see it as like
this tiny little thing, you know, that that I wrote
for the kids. And I do remember when I was
writing it at one point questioning myself like, oh is
this preachy? And then I thought, well, well, who cares

(19:09):
if it's preachy. I'm writing it for five children, So
if anybody thinks it's preachy, I'm just gonna say, well,
I wasn't talking to you as my kids. But he
just saw it in such a bigger way. And when
the video, when they showed me the video, I was like,
I don't know this is gonna work. Like there he's
you know, this is a real far reach for the song,

(19:29):
and he he just did it. It was amazing to me.
It's amazing to me. What I really feel like, it's
almost two different songs when we sing it.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Do you and are you able to see, as they
would say, the force from the trees because you're so
close to it. You wrote it, you've been in the
process watching tim grow with it. But have you been
able to see it affect like a mass amount of
people as just a message?

Speaker 10 (19:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (19:54):
But I mean that's the thing about music is and
again that whole luck thing that I'm talking about. It's like,
I feel like any sort of creativity probably people of all,
like you.

Speaker 6 (20:05):
Said, all kinds of art, all kinds of.

Speaker 9 (20:07):
Art if you are if you keep yourself plugged into
it and you like believe that you can do the
work if it lands on you.

Speaker 12 (20:16):
Hank Ty, the Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow,
and we're back on the Bobby Cast. I sat down
with Natalie Hemby back in twenty seventeen. Here she is
talking about writing songs like White Liar and Automatic with
Miranda Lambert and how she knew early on Miranda was

(20:36):
going to be a big star till you try and
you don't sign, and so you start writing songs. Did
you just want to be a writer then, or was
it like, Okay, that didn't work. I'm not going to
pursue the artist part.

Speaker 6 (20:47):
Of it, you know what.

Speaker 7 (20:48):
I was devastated. I was very disappointed, and you know,
I didn't know what but for some reason, I'm like
a Tomex, I take a look in and keep chicken,
but I got knocked down from it. But I basically
I had a publishing deal. And then I met my
husband and we became really good friends, and then literally

(21:10):
got engaged and we got married, and we were like,
let's move out to LA because I grew up here
in Nashville and I loved Nashville, but I also hated it.
I was like George Bailey in Bedford Falls, like this
was my Bedford Falls. I wanted to leave here. I
was like, I'm going to go places. I'm doing this
with my life, damn it. I'm gonna have this huge

(21:32):
record deal and I'm gonna be singing on all kinds
of stuff. And it just never it just I always
hit a wall. It never worked out for me. And
so my husband and I we got married and literally
about a month later. Who he is a producer as well,
but a month later we came high tailing. No, we
moved out to La lived out there for a few
months and man, just like a month's Yeah, we didn't

(21:56):
stay very long. We came high tailing to back home
because La is so hard to live and especially if
you don't have a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
It's expensive. People are very affected, yes, out there too,
That's why it's hard for me growing up in the South. Yeah,
and where people are people. Yeah, it's it's like you're
walking into a plastic well.

Speaker 7 (22:18):
You just feel like after all the people out that
I've really loved from out there were either from LA
or they were from the Midwest. But it was so
funny because it was like I found myself either try
It's like you either become LA or you get eaten
up by LA, you know. And when I go somewhere,
I found myself going, who's this and what do they do?
And how can they help me? And I hate that

(22:41):
more than anything.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Do you feel like that because I do a little
bit now too, But don't you feel like that now
a bit too because you're at the level you are?
Or don't you kind of wonder why people nobody wants
my friend, Like, really, if I don't have a job,
cool job, nobody wants with my friend.

Speaker 7 (22:55):
I don't think you want to be my friend either.
Maybe they think I was funny or something, But I
don't know, No, I don't know. There is a little
bit of that, I think, you know, it just kind
of comes with territory, but it's also a great way
to set an example. I guess you know what I mean. So,
but I definitely when you're out in LA. When I

(23:17):
was out there at the time, I definitely felt like
I just didn't like the person I was. And so
we came home after a few months. For a few months.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
I'm assuming you rented, Yes we did.

Speaker 7 (23:27):
Yes, we did, and we started in a nice area,
but it was like we didn't have any money. It
was just not fun. So but on my last day there,
I met with a publisher out there and with Sony Publishing,
and I had a great meeting. And so I came
home and I told her I was moving back. So
her name was Kathleen Carrey and she's awesome. I came home,
got a job at Comcast because we needed health insurance.

(23:51):
Worked there for like two to three years. In the meantime,
my husband gets this job to produce co produce with
Frank Letdell. This girl Miranda Lambert who was third runner
up on National.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Star New Artists from TV basically yeah, yeah, artists.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
From TV also my ad.

Speaker 7 (24:10):
That was another thing that was changing the formats as well,
was TV, you know from American idol to I mean
everything you can imagine, all the TV shows, So anyways,
you almost had to be on a TV show during
that time to get a record deal. I mean that's
almost like what they were looking for. So he started
working with Miranda and then they started all having and

(24:32):
I mean literally Mike used to come home and play
all these records. I mean he played, produced, engineered, mixed
all like the first three records, and I just heard
her music through the house all the time, and I
would sing harmony. I sang harmony on all her records
and stuff. But in the meantime, I'm still working at comcasts.

(24:52):
And then I also then I also got a publishing
deal with Sony in LA. Was like my last bid
to try to be an artist, so I went out.
I didn't go out to LA, but I was just
writing for this project and they once again I was
meeting with labels. I mean literally at twenty six. Someone
told me they were like, well, she's kind of old

(25:13):
to have a deal right now, which is hilarious to me,
I mean, which it makes it just makes for a
great story now. But at the time I was pissed.
I was like, I'm not old. But anyways, none of
that worked out.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
But Mike was.

Speaker 7 (25:27):
Doing so well and he was doing all this stuff
with her and then David nell Elaang band, but he
finally was like, hey, you should write with my wife.
I mean, and she'd met me because I'd sang on
her records and stuff, and I'd sang with her on
a couple of live things too, and she was like, Nally,
I want to write with you on this next record.
And I was like, will you call me?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
I don't want to bother you.

Speaker 7 (25:51):
I'm like, I'm available, you just tell me when you
have time. So she ended up calling me and finally,
and literally we wrote eight songs in two days. And
it's because I mean, I literally had all these ideas
I've just been saving for and it was white liar,
only prettier.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Let's talk about that. Let's let me stop you for
a second. You know, just for those at home, you
wrote eight songs in two days. Now, most writing sessions
people put to, you know, four to five hours aside
and go we're gonna write, yeah, and then you come
up with the song and you get and hopefully you
demo it and it's a thing. Yeah it is. And
sometimes that friends who double rights. Yeah, no, right, and

(26:32):
that's a lot like you do a double right with
two songs? You're exhausted, you are? You did eight songs
in two days? Yes, you know what.

Speaker 7 (26:39):
Mariana at the time she lived in Texas and I
only had her for a couple of days, and I
was like, I'm like, I'm gonna drink coffee and I'm
gonna write my brains out.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
I don't care.

Speaker 7 (26:49):
I'm like, I just wanted to get But the thing
about it I liked about it was I really loved
the songs. I had been working on the title White
Liar for a while and I was trying to make
it this dark, mysterious but with a White Liar. I
was like, I didn't know where to go with it,
and she goes, well, I don't know, Like what about like, hey, lie,

(27:11):
Ruth comes out a.

Speaker 4 (27:12):
Little out of time?

Speaker 7 (27:14):
And I was like that like that literally and I
was like, oh my gosh, yes, And I was like,
we wrote it in thirty minutes.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Would that be the moment that you went, Okay, she's
really special.

Speaker 7 (27:27):
Yeah, I would say that would be. But I tell
you what. On her first record, she wrote love is
Looking for You Now by herself, and she also wrote
care Saying by herself too, But I Love is looking
for You Now? Is like, what an amazing song that was.
If anybody could ever go back and listen to that,
they need to. It was so and she wrote it
when she was sixteen, and I was just like, damn,

(27:49):
this girl is really good, Like she's I don't know,
I really have always known that Mirandam's a great writer.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Would that be the first big check that you got,
was white liar, Oh yeah, yeah, yes, the first mailbox money.
We were like, holy crap, like I can actually not
work at comcasts.

Speaker 7 (28:08):
Absolutely, and honestly, it's probably the song that's made me
the most money because usually your first hits are the
ones that keep generating because that's what they always go
back and play over and over and over again for years.
So if you can have a first hit with an artist,
that's a really great thing. And the great thing is
her first hit as well, her first number one. You know, Kerosene.

(28:32):
I totally thought Kerosene or gunpowdern Led all those should
have been number one, but they just weren't at the
time for whatever reason. But that was her first number
one and my first number one, and it was really
special to get to share that with her.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
You know, I'm a big Jesse Alexander fan. She wrote
The Climb by Miley Cyrus. She also wrote Lee Brice's
I Drive Your Truck. She's written so many massive songs.
But she shared the difference between writing in Nashville versus
writing in Los Angeles and why Nashville is and was
a better fit for her.

Speaker 11 (29:06):
So I was writing at Disney at the time. I
was in my probably first or second year there, and
my publisherly Sir Ramsey, found out that they were coming
here to make that Hannamontana the movie here in Nashville.
And She's like, wait a minute, you gonna come here
to Nashville, and you're not gonna use any of the
Nashville songs and songwriters because at that time, all the
Disney franchise stuff was basically written out of la So

(29:29):
she like found the director Peter Chisholm and talked him
into coming to our office in Nashville while they were
scouting locations, and we literally put on like an old
school picking like with guitars, like we just played songs
that we loved, and he was taken by my voice,
and you know, just we hit it off and he said,
would you please just make me a CD and you know,

(29:51):
put some songs on there. And I thought, oh my god,
this is my moment and I didn't have anything. The
song that we wrote was called It's the Climb. It
was a guy song. John Mabe was singing it. It was
a little more spiritual. But he called us like a
week later, said, if you'll rewrite the song, I'm going
to rewrite the whole movie around this song, and.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
You'll rewrite the song. What does that mean if you're.

Speaker 11 (30:12):
Because I had written it more if the headlines like
these prayers are praying? You know, it was very much
more spiritual. It was more adult. You got to remember
Miley Cyrus was fifteen aunt of Time. So we did.
We rewrote it and sent it back and he was like,
you don't understand, like she's gonna be play She's gonna
be writing this song in the movie, Like this is
going to be part of the whole movie. But I

(30:34):
still didn't believe him. I just thought, no, there's gonna
be some la writer that's going to beat me. You know,
I'd be into the song. Someone's going to write a
better song.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Is that because so many times you get told something
at the last.

Speaker 11 (30:45):
Minute, yes, and we were by that point. I was
so used to know that yes. I couldn't even understand that.
And it was so odd to have something so much
about my struggle be the thing that gives me success.
Do you know what I'm saying? I like, how does
that happen?

Speaker 2 (31:05):
You know?

Speaker 11 (31:05):
And it was just such a blessing just to watch
my dreams come true. And now I get to see,
you know, people on the American Idol sing it. I've
seen you know, I've had letters from people that use
that during chemo treatments or run a marathon. To my
daughter sing it at our pre K graduation. You know,
it's just it's like the song that people have taken
so personal.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
I love the song. I played it because I was
on poprity at the time. I played all the time. Yeah,
I had no idea you were influenced in my life,
see even then. So did you go back and make
it the original version your record?

Speaker 11 (31:39):
I just kind of sang it the way we wrote it.
This whole record that I made is really acoustic. People
will come hear me play and they'll say gosh, I
love your version of I drive your truck. It's so
different coming from a female's perspective. So when I made
this record, I wanted them to have a Bluebird experience,
Like literally, I want them to walk away after just
seeing me play the Bluebird and put it in and

(32:00):
be like, that's exactly what I just heard. So the
common denominator is me and a guitar, my husband and
a gay guitar, and Richard Bennett was very sparse the
way we recorded it. But on every song there's a
special guest like Sheryl Crow sing's on it, Charlie Worsham,
Will Hoague like I've got all my friends singing, kind
of a special feature of the song. So I'll bring

(32:21):
you on.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
I just download it when you leave. I don't even
have a display. I don't have a disc call you
have a disc holl in your life. No, I don't
have a disc holl either, No for any So I
haven't give a bunch of CD lay around.

Speaker 11 (32:31):
Oh yeah, people give me CDs all the time, Like,
I don't know what to do with this.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
What's the name of the record. I felt so ignorant.

Speaker 11 (32:36):
Called down Home because me and brothers Osborn wrote a
song on their record they recorded as well, but Christopherson's
on there, and there's some really cool songs that I
wrote for the record.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Man, look at you. I remember the first time meeting
I was timoated to talk to you. I told you this.
I was like, I'm such a big fan because I
saw you play and then I knew what you'd written
songwriter geek and you were really nice to meet and
not nice is in nice. You were very friendly, you
were very warm. There's a difference in nice and warm,
and you were very warm to me. And I was like, man,

(33:07):
people aren't warm to me because everybody's like either scared
because they I'm gonna get on ready and say something
about him, yeah, or they just don't like me because
I said something about him.

Speaker 11 (33:17):
Well, you might have said something about me.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
No, if I did, it was awesome. I said, I
want to hear. Okay, So let's Miley the Climb. That's
that was my introduction to you.

Speaker 11 (33:25):
That was the one.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
What's the third clip of the mike over here? There's
one of black whites? Okay, okay, we did that one.
So I drive your truck, Lee Brice tru I mean
that one w won everything. Yeah, I mean that's that's
because I wonder what the Miley song inside of our

(33:46):
little bubble here in Nashville, if that really made you like,
whoa she's? Because I wouldn't think it would didn't.

Speaker 11 (33:52):
It was very surreal because you know, I'm a Nashville songwriter.
I grew I grew up, you know, want to write
country songs like you stopped loving her today? That's my bar,
you know. So you know, I'll be honest. I don't
listen to a lot of pop radio. I wasn't influenced
by pop radio, so it was so weird to have
a number you know, one song on pop radio umber

(34:14):
and fourteen weeks at number one on AC and all
these formats that I didn't really listen to, and.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Other countries, to other countries like the thing.

Speaker 11 (34:22):
It was so surreal. Yeah, and so you're right, like
I thought it would open all these doors in Nashville,
but really what happened was it was almost like all
these A and R people and people that had been
looking at me all these years, it was almost like
they're like, oh, see, she should have been doing that,
you know what I mean? It was it was and
it really kind of messed with me too, like, well,

(34:42):
maybe I should have been writing female songs all this time,
Like maybe, you know, it was a head trip and
it took two years. It was kind of this crash,
you know. It was like this high having the song
and then nothing else happened. And it was because that's
not the kind of writer I am, you know, because
they were Disney was like, you got to go to
l write, you know, I got to write with some
incredible LA writers. But I got out there, I was like,

(35:04):
this isn't I'm a Nashville songwriter.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
What's the difference. A lot of friends go out and
there write in LA and they always come back and
I'm like, and not for me, But what's the difference
in an LA right in the Nashville right?

Speaker 11 (35:15):
I think it's just the like craftsmanship, you know, I'm
raised on hooks and you know, lyrics basically, I mean
that's everything for me, a lyric and out there it's like,
you know, you're bringing that to the party, but it's
all happening so fast, the way they write so different.
I'm very Sixteenth Avenue, you know, I grew up wanting
to be Harlan Howard and those kind of writers. So

(35:37):
I think they knew I was an imposter too.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
You know, but they come here now because they want
to get away from that environment.

Speaker 11 (35:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (35:44):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
I remember Alo Black coming to the studio and he said,
I don't know if you know Alo at all. He said,
you know, he's an R and B singer, and he
was like, I came here because people really write songs here. Yeah,
And I think, and I'm just paraphrasing him, he's like,
in LA they just kind of turn out music. Yeah,
in Nashville, they write songs.

Speaker 11 (36:03):
We craft We were craftsmen. I mean, we were making
the finest cabinet you can make of the finest shoes.
Like we don't We're going deeper than the surface. And
I respect pop music so much, like, you know, the
way what they can do with the melodies and tracks
and lyrics, but it's just, you know, I grew up
on country music and certain kinds of songs, so that's

(36:24):
my bar. And so what happened was I had to
reinvent myself, believe it or not, after twenty ten, going
into twenty eleven, after I'd had this huge song, I
had to re change everything. And that's when you know,
I was writing female songs. I wasn't get anything recorded,
and I remember thinking, I've got to just start writing
men's songs. It's really not that hard. I love men's songs.

(36:48):
I grew up on men's songs, you know. So my
first coming back to that was one of the first
co writes of that year. It was Rodney Clausen and
we wrote Drink on It, and that was I had
to prove myself why I'm a girl being in a
man's room.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Well, let's talk about this one for a second. So
you're right, drink on It? And when do you know
that one? Blake has put it on hold because it's
a process. Put it on hold, then cut it. Then
it's a single, like walk me through those steps.

Speaker 11 (37:15):
Okay, this is a great story. Actually, you know, me
and Blake Shelton have been friends for a long time,
but he's very cryptic and mysterious when he's when he's
going into cuts. So I didn't even know they cut
it until two days after they cut it.

Speaker 5 (37:28):
Wow.

Speaker 11 (37:28):
Really yes, And you know believe actually me and Rodney,
I mean we are We liked the song. We all
you know, have vibbed and stuff. But it wasn't like
that's a smash, you know. So we recorded it and
then he recorded it and they put it, yeah, you're
right hold, but it was still just like holds a hold.
I mean, I'm sure you've heard that term. We say

(37:50):
it all the time, like I get holds, you know,
but cuts. It's a big leap between a hold and
a cut. And so he records it, and then I
was pregnant with our twins. He asked me to come
sing on it because I sang on the demo and
that was a really cool experience. And then the wait

(38:11):
is am I going to get a single? Because in
my world, if you don't have a single, then you know,
it's really hard to make a living now with you know,
a piracy and everything. So the day before I went
in to deliver the twins, I get an email from
Scott Hendricks, which is his producer and label head, and
he said, just want you to go in knowing that

(38:33):
you have the next Blake Shelton single. And so I
have brand new babies and I had a song go
number one for two weeks, one for each twin.

Speaker 12 (38:43):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. Welcome back to
the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Sarah Buxton talks about Keith Urban recording her song Stupid
Boy and how it changed her life.

Speaker 13 (38:58):
And it was treated differently on the record. We cut
it with no click track, which is something you would
never do if it was going.

Speaker 14 (39:03):
To be a single.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
So you had a little more freedom, yeah, to go
your own way even in yeah, very small details, but
you weren't right on with how exactly it's supposed to
be right now.

Speaker 13 (39:14):
I'll say Innocence is one that I feel like I
was being more authentic too, like that's an actual story
and it's like so, but yeah, I'm with you, like
Stupid Boy was totally There's just these songs that are gifts.
That's the kind of land and you don't really remember.

(39:36):
I mean, I can tell you, like the beginning of
how that song was written, but.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Well, I'm curious because you write it and then you
put it on your record and then did it until
Keith Nicole and we'll get to that story in second,
until it was discovered and redone, like did it reach
its peak? It it was just a song that you were
proud of that existed and they kind of went away.

Speaker 13 (39:59):
No, I I felt that it was really special, like
when I for me, like I felt like it was special.

Speaker 14 (40:06):
For me, and then and then he.

Speaker 13 (40:10):
Heard it like I I it was just special to me.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
I knew.

Speaker 13 (40:14):
I knew the day that I wrote it. I was like, damn,
I love this song. It was like a new a
new thing for me.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
How did he hear it?

Speaker 13 (40:24):
Well, Betsy Cook was her name at the time. Now
she has a different last name, and then her name
became Betsy McHugh. But she was working for Borman Keith's
manager at the time, and she's my age, really good
friend of mine, and we were just meeting. She says
that she played it for him on the bus. And
then I've heard Dan say that he played it for Keith,

(40:45):
so I'm not quite sure if we'd have to ask
Keith how he heard it. But I heard that Betsy
played it for him on the bus. And it wasn't
like do you want to cut this song? It was
like we I really want you to meet this girl,
because you know.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
It wasn't even about the song exactly. It was about
the part.

Speaker 13 (41:01):
Yeah, and that was the song she picked play, So
it wasn't the ones they were thinking of as singles.
It was like just the one that she thought Keith
would like, well, imagine if I had approached everything that way.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
But and the song probably that she thought best represented
to you as a person. Yes, you have written a
massive hit, right and it wasn't all of a sudden.
And that's what's funny is you wrote it, you recorded it,
you're proud of it, you love it. Yeah, then all
of a sudden years later you have a massive hit
right now, does that change people's perception of you as
a songwriter in this town versus the artist? Only?

Speaker 13 (41:36):
Oh, I was so lucky that that happened for the
longevity of like my life and just the way that
I'm happy where I'm at right now, and like that,
I would never be right exactly where I was if
that hadn't happened.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
So, if I'm getting this right, you stayed and the
stars aligned over you.

Speaker 14 (41:53):
Oh, by, that's amazing. Look how we just did that.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
I'm just all I'm doing iss And that that was
the stars doing what they're supposed to do, exactly in
the place that you're supposed to be living.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
I was talking to Keith because Keith and I are friendly,
we're more than just acquaintances. But we don't hang he's
gone all the time, but we're friendly enough where we
can actually have a good conversation about microphones. Yeah exactly,
And so when we do have a microphone, he opens
up a little more. I feel because he trust that
I'm not going to take him somewhere he doesn't want
to go. We were talking about maybe it was take

(42:35):
you guess and take your for you doom You'll think
of me maybe that one, but no, it was a
fly whatever. One of his biggest songs are often the
ones that weren't number ones. Yeah, like his career biggest songs,
I think the songs that he is known for and
Stupid Boys one of them, Yeah, weren't number one songs.

(42:56):
I know that number one is a chart uh, it's
a business plan by a record label. But that doesn't
mean that these number two songs aren't heavier in people's hearts.

Speaker 14 (43:08):
Yeah, right exactly.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
I know number two is that is not funny ironic
a bit.

Speaker 13 (43:13):
Well, everybody was like, oh my god, like is it
ever gonna happen? When I finally got a number one,
they were like, oh my.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
God, was it the fgl song without your first one Sundays?

Speaker 13 (43:24):
To be honest, I don't know if it was that
one or fix.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
I don't know what I can tell you because I
had the years.

Speaker 10 (43:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
The question that I was going to ask you, it
kind of leads into where we are now. I mean,
I was thinking about it before you came over. And
because you're wildly creative, do you ever go in and
let's say, just for the sake of this, the name
of the song is walking down the Street. Okay, you
go in, you say, I want to do the song
walking down the street. You guys write the song talk
about one day you walk down the street and you

(43:52):
ran into an old friend, and that old friend that
song over, and that song really doesn't nothing happens with it, right,
Maybe it's not that great. Maybe it's cut by the
wrong person. If it gets cut, it off and you're like, well,
I like that idea, but what we did therewith it
wasn't right. So will you go into a room and
go have the song about walking down the street another room, yes,

(44:15):
another room with other people your same idea, but collaboration
with people that you work in different ways with. Yeah,
and then you present it to them an idea that
you thought may have worked over here almost still the
same idea to other people, and then it actually turned
into something. Has that ever happened with you?

Speaker 14 (44:31):
Oh god, yes, yeah.

Speaker 13 (44:34):
It's a thing about taking a title back and taking
a concept back. I think the way you have to
do it is just trust that you've put enough kindness
in the bank with people to be like, Okay, that
song that we wrote that is doing nothing, that hasn't
gotten cut and is just sitting there. I'm going to
take that title and you tell them.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Oh, you have to tell them. I think you need
to tell them because I would have called it bebopping
down the street. My second version was not a change of.

Speaker 13 (44:58):
Slices, another way to do it. I've definitely done that.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
So but there are times where you've not been satisfied
with the result of an idea for who it could
have been your fault to totally as much as anyone else's,
and you go, man, we just didn't hit it. I like,
I want to use this idea though again, and you
go to a different room with different people and work.
But you will say, hey, room ay that I got
to take it back. Are they usually receptive to that?

Speaker 13 (45:22):
I mean most people are. I mean most people. I
work with are I'm sure there's people that aren't.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
But I feel like I have one good idea. I
take it like thirty rooms, Yeah, same exact idea, and
I just take it over and over it all I
know I.

Speaker 13 (45:34):
Took and I actually texted, and I'm kind of learning
not to do this.

Speaker 14 (45:38):
I think the lesson is don't do this.

Speaker 13 (45:40):
But like I texted a friend and was like, I
have a song I want to write with you.

Speaker 14 (45:44):
It's called this and it's about without you.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Without you.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
No no, no, no no.

Speaker 14 (45:48):
But then I get it.

Speaker 13 (45:49):
But then but then you know, I don't have anything
scheduled with them, and then I'm actually tomorrow wanting to
go in and and so I had to text my
friend and go, I don't want you to think I'm
cheating you, but I am taking that title back too,
and he actually goes, oh, that's funny, because like, I
just gave a title to so and so, and I
think I'm going to take it back, and I was like,

(46:10):
here's your chance.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
What I like about what you said earlier is if
you have enough kindness in the bank, yeah, the people
will give you grace quicker, yeah, and probably fuller than
if you don't.

Speaker 14 (46:21):
I am learning that.

Speaker 13 (46:23):
That is, if you're generally pretty kind to people, like
treat people well, let them know how much you love them,
like when you see them, really let them know that
you can. There's just more you can trust how much
people love you. You can really trust it.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
And yeah, I'm not a big trust her, but I
hear what you're saying. That's also why I'm going to therapy,
Like have an hour.

Speaker 14 (46:46):
You can trust it.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
I am getting better.

Speaker 13 (46:49):
Yeah, you can, you really can. I encourage you to.
But that doesn't mean like you can just.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Go be don't worry.

Speaker 13 (46:57):
I won't awful, but I'm generally not going to be
awful to something generally.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
But occasionally. This is Heather Morgan talking about writing Be
to the Music and Lose My Mind with Brett Eldridge,
which we're both number ones, and how she got her
first number one with that song Beat to the Music.
In this town. You're cool once things start to happen. Yeah,
And once thing start to happen, people want to hang
out with you. And then you're like, then I want

(47:23):
to hang out because things are happening. We have people
that you kind of struggled with. Yeah, you never have
to worry about that.

Speaker 6 (47:30):
It's so funny.

Speaker 15 (47:31):
I mean though, I have this memory of walking down,
walking down with these alleys on music grow because we couldn't,
like the three of us couldn't get into a party,
like nobody would let us in, and so we had
to like we we just wanted to hang out at
this old office building.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Then.

Speaker 6 (47:46):
I'm pretty sure it was shocked to yoga.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Now, oh yeah, right there in the organization's I go
there sometimes?

Speaker 15 (47:51):
Okay, yeah, so you know exactly the alley I'm talking about.

Speaker 6 (47:54):
But like we like, we didn't have any money.

Speaker 15 (47:57):
I think Brett told the story at the Number one
party for being the music that we all like pulled
together like eight bucks and bought a bottle tequila and
went to the empty publisher house and we were like, okay,
we'll just hang out with each other. So I was like, yeah,
I do remember that. I remember what I was.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Wearing when you came to town. Would you say it
was five or so?

Speaker 6 (48:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Who were the people that because everybody kind of has classes, Yeah,
who came to town around the same time you came
to town that you get to know still knew?

Speaker 15 (48:25):
Well, I would say, I feel like my class kind
of turned out to be like John Knight and then
Ross of course, and then Nicole Gallian.

Speaker 6 (48:36):
People that are still.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Nichole's got a really good one of these two. If
you're listening to this, Nicholes was.

Speaker 15 (48:40):
Really yeah, she was a great, great podcast just from
early on. Those are the ones that I still like.
See and then I met Jared a little bit later,
but not too much later.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Jared Johnson, Yeah, yeah, see American Bang or kind of
like three or he.

Speaker 15 (48:54):
Was actually it was an American Bang when I met him. Yeah,
And then I remember I just remember writing with him
my first time to write with him, like amazing sunglasses on,
he looks like he was a beatle kind of and
then thinking like this guy, wow, he's like wait, how
is how is this happening? Because he's so cool and
IM girl from Texas And then we ended up hitting
it off and we've been buddies ever since.

Speaker 6 (49:15):
I just I love how like he'll say anything yea
to your face.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Right we talked in here. They text me for like
an hour calling me out on things right after were
like I forgot to say this text yeah, but it's
always I like consistent.

Speaker 6 (49:32):
People, yes, and he is that for sure.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
I know what to expect and I don't have to
worry that you're pulling something over being a bad way.
If I know, I can trust that you're going to
always give me the same kind of person. Yeah, that's
what I like about Jaron.

Speaker 6 (49:48):
Yeah, like I can appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
That's always the beat of the music. Was like the
song of the Year that was.

Speaker 6 (49:55):
Very life changing.

Speaker 15 (49:56):
That was so crazy because I remember the year before
for the b and Ile wor Words, I wrote Jody
Williams an email telling him like it was almost it probably.

Speaker 6 (50:05):
Read like a school assignment.

Speaker 15 (50:06):
I was like, dear Jody, this is why I would
love to be included in the b and I Awards
because I wasn't getting one, And I wrote him a
list of why I thought it might be good for
my career just to get to be there for that,
and he like gave me an extra ticket. That those
things are kind of hard to get into, so he
was really kind and gave me an extra ticket. And
then the next year was like the first year to

(50:27):
get an award, and then we won Song of the Year.
So he afterwards he was like, well, that email you
sent me last year, He's like, you really want ADID
this year. But my sister came with me for that,
and yeah, it was really awesome. I just remember somebody
was talking to me when they were like about to
announce it, and somebody else from the table like hit
me and they were like you need to be watching.

Speaker 6 (50:45):
No, I didn't know.

Speaker 15 (50:46):
They were like they were like, make sure you have
family there, and I was like, I'll bring my sister,
like she'll have fun.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
She'll like you bring just and have family to have family, right, yeah,
and if you lose someone that you're still.

Speaker 15 (50:58):
Oh yeah, you're still totally. So it was those nights
are so fun. But I remember like my hands wouldn't
stop shaking. It was so weird, Like.

Speaker 6 (51:07):
Yeah, it was like this, I mean like why is
where are my hands doing that? That's so weird?

Speaker 2 (51:10):
And did you get cooler around talent as far as
we wanted to write with you? Oh God, Like did
the calendar start to I feel.

Speaker 15 (51:17):
Like people gave me a shot that maybe didn't beforehand.
And yeah, I do feel like there was a shift.
I don't know if I got cooler, I'm for sure,
but I do feel like some more opportunities came along
and it was just I think it was just nice.
Somebody said something really cool to me. It was actually
at a Christmas party at Jaron's house. It was this guy,

(51:38):
Mark Beeson, who's an amazing writer, and he said, he said,
your first hit song represents all the songs that you
wrote before that. It's just like a culmination of all
the work you fit in, all the risks taking you did,
like all the times you showed up.

Speaker 6 (51:55):
That's what it also means.

Speaker 15 (51:56):
So he just wanted to make sure like I understood
that angle on it, and it was I don't.

Speaker 6 (52:00):
It was so cool to hear that.

Speaker 15 (52:02):
Because you never know, like we wrote a beach song
in January one year and it ended up being that
so so yeah, it was really cool. But I did
feel like, okay, like a big exhale moment, I'm the
other cool thing. And I think that was fun that
somebody described the moment as Matt Jenkins said this, Sorry Matt,
I'm quoting you. Ben he said, it's like he was like,

(52:23):
as a guy, it's like the first time you have
to kiss a girl, you just like want to get
it over with having a hit song.

Speaker 6 (52:28):
He's like, now like I kiss the girl.

Speaker 15 (52:31):
Basically that is what he said, and I don't take
that out of that's gonna sound funky now.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
That we'll quote you in the next one.

Speaker 16 (52:37):
Great.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Let me ask you a question about this, because I
remember talking about this on the radio show. So this
is Brett and this is the normal, and this is
so I don't even know what happened with this, did you?

Speaker 8 (52:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (52:54):
Yeah, they're all on there. Yeah, they're all on there.

Speaker 10 (52:56):
They didn't.

Speaker 6 (52:57):
Luckily, they're like kind because they were like, what what
It's a country song and so.

Speaker 15 (53:01):
Many people have used that line. We were like the
thousandth people.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
But the success is that? What bred the Hey, oh wow,
we need to get this song.

Speaker 15 (53:12):
Well, it kind of happened in the room and I
remember having that moment of like this was that on
that or was it not? And then later we were
at some event where Brett's team from Warner Brothers was
there and they were like, Hey, we're working on the
line from the song was leased my mind and I
was like, Okay. Some NYU professor was like looking at it.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
What on that line? They wanted to change it?

Speaker 15 (53:34):
They wanted to change it or they wanted to figure
out like how much of that of the song was
I guess percentages or something, and so I was like, well.

Speaker 6 (53:42):
That's those are the professionals, Like, we'll just leave it
to that, hope. So they only they didn't get a
lot of it.

Speaker 4 (53:50):
It really like.

Speaker 15 (53:52):
And the funny thing is there's two guys, So it's
Celo Green in Danger Mouse and Danger Mouse, which so
it's so cool meazing, it's a weird situation. And then
the two other guys are actually two guys that Nonals
Barkley borrowed from, so they're like the original people that
created something. And then nonals Barkley borrowed from so ce

(54:14):
Lo and Thang your Mouth borrowed from them.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Just that one part of it though, so well, I guess.

Speaker 15 (54:19):
For the Narals Barkley song maybe somehow, so somehow, it's
all there's like three different compositions, if you want to say, professionally,
Like the other thing is like an Italian musical from
the sixties.

Speaker 6 (54:31):
I'm not kidding. Somebody came up to me at the
Bluebird and they're like, do you know the history of
your own song? And I was like, apparently not. I've
nobody's ever shared that with me. So the two other
guys have.

Speaker 15 (54:40):
An Italian last name, and I don't even I don't
know anything about them, but I do know that because it.

Speaker 6 (54:46):
Was number one.

Speaker 15 (54:47):
We got a we wont to Pop Award in London
last year because of it. But just based on like
the math of it, did that cost you a.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Lot of money? Haven't add all them.

Speaker 6 (55:00):
Kind of because again, yeah, I mean not not as
much as it could have been.

Speaker 15 (55:06):
It could have been like really hurtful, but it ended
up were I'm not like crying every time a check
comes in because they have most of it or anything
like that.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
You know, it's weird. And in Nashville the writing for
the most part is different than in Los Angeles.

Speaker 6 (55:23):
Yeah, because they can get down.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
If it's three people, it's thirty three thirty three.

Speaker 6 (55:29):
Yeah, I don't know how they do that.

Speaker 15 (55:30):
That makes me so like, that makes me nervous for people,
because I don't know how you decide, like do you
have to have like a class monitor that's like someone's like, no,
you you have five words and he has seven.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
So here's something you may not know about Nicole Gallion.
She was actually on the second season of the Voice
with ray Lynn. Nicole told us how a singing competition
show kick started her songwriting career. It's tougher for women
right now because stopped building the farm system first of all,
when it was all dudes all the time. They stop
even cultivating from the bottom of building females to even

(56:07):
get to radio. So radio's kind of waiting on the
minor leagues to give us these artists. But record it
was just stop making females a priority. So here we
are again, and radio is struggling to find these females
to put on, and it's harder and harder to find them.
And ballads are hard because everybody's so add and if

(56:28):
something slow on the radio, like even research goes if
something slow, boom, they change it because it's like a again,
it's a female and it's a ballady song. If it
had been a male, it would have been it had
been a hit. Well, because it's such a good song
and it's not even a dig at ray lns. Ray
Link can sing her brains out, and she sings it wonderfully,

(56:49):
and I just felt like it was such a good song.
And I and I saw a couple weeks ago whenever
they stopped promote, and I was like, oh, that sucks,
because any other scenario, you give it to a dude,
and that's probably man.

Speaker 6 (57:02):
I've never even thought.

Speaker 16 (57:04):
I guess I've just been so wrapped up and that
is her, that's her story that I never thought of
it as a song that from even a pitching standpoint
of who could sing it and what would it be
if someone else did it?

Speaker 2 (57:14):
And to me it wasn't even a pitching thing. It
was just that's so good. I think that people and
I again, I'm on the radio, but I'm still so
anti the establishment of radio that I think you have
a lot of program directors that are like, well, it's
slow and it's female. It's got two strikes against it already,
so as soon as there's a bomb, we're gonna goea
and pull out of it.

Speaker 16 (57:32):
What's so crazy, though, is like those are the songs that,
when they do get through, they are song of the year.
They're the songs that our industry puts on a pedestal
in such a highway. So it's it's like you got
to swing for the fences occasionally, not like not every
day am I gonna be willing to write. I'm not
gonna write a hundred songs a year about divorce and

(57:53):
ballads for girls, you know, but when the song presents itself,
you owe it to the idea and you owe it
to the artist and the to make it the best
that it can be, even if it doesn't make sense
for even if radio doesn't understand.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Well, I just want to say I love the song.
I always loved the song. I loved it from the
first time I heard. I was like, holy cow, that
song speaks to people, you know, and I think a
lot of people will understand it. And I just felt
crappy for it whenever they quit on it. And it
wasn't even their fault for quitting on it, because it
was people wouldn't they weren't playing it and it two
strikes again one strike and being a ballad, I think
it would have made it.

Speaker 16 (58:27):
I you know, I think that song like really helped
show the evolution, you know, like as I said earlier,
like the purposes of songs that helps rebrand her, you know,
and show her evolve into something new, and hopefully that
will just be, if nothing else, a gateway into who
she is now.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
You know, you wrote a lot with her on her
last record, which is wild Horse, Wildhorse, Go for Memory.
How many songs did you I had eight songs on there,
So you guys just sat and wrote, did you write
purposely to write a record with her?

Speaker 16 (58:58):
No, it just happened, But it happen been like three
or four years ago. It happened around the time that
I told you, like Miranda started hearing songs I was writing.
We wrote all those songs love Turn. All those songs
are four years old. We wrote like probably eighty percent
of her record, me and Jimmy Robins and Ray Like
in probably a nine month period.

Speaker 6 (59:18):
We just kind of had that.

Speaker 16 (59:20):
There was like a season where we all just kind
of clicked and I think it started to feel like
an album to us then, But we didn't know that
it would be three or four years before she would
get a real shot and really get to put it
out as it is.

Speaker 6 (59:32):
And then we ended up co producing it.

Speaker 16 (59:33):
I don't know if you know that, but I actually
got to co produce the record, which when was the
last time a female ever got to co produce anything.
So I'm super proud of a lot of things beyond
radio success with that project. For me, from my standpoint,
how did you guys become friends? Because I was on
the voice with her the same year. Really, Yeah, just

(59:57):
what season was that?

Speaker 6 (59:58):
Season two?

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Okay, so that was early wow. Yeah, and it's so
you're not a singer.

Speaker 16 (01:00:02):
Around a minute ago I left out there's there are
a lot of gaps in the story, which you know,
which we've jumped around, but like if you heard it
all chronologically, it would make sense. But you know, I
had had a publishing deal for probably three four or
five years at that point, wasn't having any success, and
I kept getting feedback from like A and R at labels.
When they'd pitch my songs, they'd be like, oh, that's

(01:00:23):
an a cool song, that's an a cool song. And
I was getting to be a better singer because I
was singing every day and I had gotten the bravery
to do it, you know, and I was recording in
the like I got. I was so late to the game.
All these girls grew up making demos in the studio
when they're twelve, and I was like learning, at like
twenty three how to do this. And so I was
kind of like, well, screw it, I'm not getting nobody's

(01:00:45):
cutting my songs. Maybe I'm supposed to make a record
and because in it, but it was never like I
want to perform, I want to sing. I just I
want my songs out there. So I kind of was
working with a manager for a minute, trying to get
my house in order to approach labels, and then this
manager sits me down like you're not an artist. You're
never going to be an artist. You're going to be
a successful songwriter, but you're not an artist. But through

(01:01:07):
that process, people had started to brand me more as
like a girl that wanted a record deal, and so
I got referred to try out for the voice and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
As a ringer. Kind of bad friends that have been
ringers on the show. I have a bunch of friends
that have been like they recruit I say ring Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:01:21):
Well it was so early on it wasn't quite as
strategic as it probably is now because it was so
fresh the show that season was kind of just ending,
and they were like, well, the show's blowing up, like
would you want to do this? And it was the
It was like the perfect time to get to do it,
you know.

Speaker 6 (01:01:36):
But I didn't make it very far. I didn't.

Speaker 16 (01:01:37):
I was only on a couple episodes. But I had
actually written with Ray this girl Rachel Woodward at the time.
Two days before that audition, not the one that you
see on TV, but like the audition to like to
sing here in Nashville, like the preferred kind of thing.
And I met her and I was like, are you
in town this week? Because at the time, she's like sixteen?

(01:01:58):
And I was like, are you in town by chance?
Because you're trying out for the voice? And she's like no,
And I was like, you have to do it.

Speaker 6 (01:02:03):
You are made for TV.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Wait, so you convinced ray Lynn to try out for
the voice?

Speaker 16 (01:02:08):
And I met her before she was ray Lynn and
told her to try it for the voice. We both
ended up trying out and made it. And then I
was kind of like like while we were on the show,
she was a minor, and so like during production, like
she always had to have a parent with her, and
so like there would be days that like her mom
flew out in the morning and then her dad didn't
get there till the night. So production would call and say, hey,

(01:02:30):
ray wants to go to the mall. We can't leave.
Could she hang with you today? I was like her
big sister slash mom, and so you know, and we
just I don't know, I just to be honest, I
think I was becoming like a mother. I think I
was kind of getting the bug to be a mom myself.
And she was like a little kid and so cuddly
and just she just has this childlike thing about her.

(01:02:52):
And I was like, took her under my wing and
we just had this bond. So when we came back
from filming the show before they had before it started
air on TV, I knew that she was like a
front runner, and I knew that Blake and Miranda had
basically adopted her. And I was like, we need to write,
Like you need to be writing right now because you
need to have songs before you get a record deal,
and when you walk in you need to have as

(01:03:12):
much to say before they tell you what to say.
So I was just writing with her, and that's where
I was like, Hey, Natalie, I got this girl. So
if you go back into my story, you take out
the voice, everything's different from me. I'm not saying I
wouldn't have found some success eventually, but the voice has
nothing to do with songwriting, and it literally is one
of the most crucial parts of my story.

Speaker 6 (01:03:35):
It's still insane to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Me because of Ray, because of Natalie, because of Moranda.
That Domino all the way through.

Speaker 6 (01:03:42):
Yeah, it means it very odd.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
The voice was the Butterfly and your Butterfly effect.

Speaker 16 (01:03:46):
It was when I came back from that show, everything
started clicking, even outside of the stuff that we've talked about,
Like I was like a different writer.

Speaker 6 (01:03:53):
It is so weird.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Hang ty the Bobby Cast. We'll be right back. This
is the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
This is Jesse Joe Dillon talking about finding out that
Justin Bieber was going to be on the song ten
thousand Hours with Dan and Shay, a song that she
had written, and then how people treat her differently because
of her dad's a very famous songwriter, Dean Dylon ten
thousand hours, which is hours. You know, I know Dan
and Shape rather well. We moved down about the same time.

(01:04:25):
I have friends a long time, and you know that
song by itself was going to be amazing. Anyway, Yes,
when you heard that Bieber was going to get.

Speaker 8 (01:04:35):
On it, I mean sometimes I still can't believe it,
and the way that it happened is a memory I
just never will forget. I was in New York with Alex,
my publisher, doing a some kind of panel, Grammy panel

(01:04:56):
maybe and Dan, I like posted something on my story
and he responded to it and was like, Yo, are
you in New York? I really want to see you today?
And I was like, yeah, I'm with Alex. Let's all
meet up. So we ended up going to this like
sports bar and some guys were watching games or something,
and then he was like, hey, we got to go

(01:05:16):
back to my hotel. I want to play you something.
I had no idea they'd even cut the song. I'm
assuming at this point though, I'm like, oh, maybe they
cut ten thousand hours, Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
My gosh, and yes, got it.

Speaker 8 (01:05:28):
So we get to the hotel where I was standing
in this room che Alex, Mike and Dan, and he's like,
guess who's on ten thousand hours with us? And I
was like who and he said Justin Bieber and it
was like, shut up, that is ridiculous. I was like,
for real, though, I want to hear it, and he
was like no, he's really on the song, and I

(01:05:50):
was like, I was a dude, no, blah blah blah.
I did not believe him. And finally he just put
headphones on my head and it already sounded so great
from the top. I was like tearing up. And then
when he started singing. I mean I just cried. I mean,
there's like video of it wherever we're all freaking out,
but it is like one of my favorite memories. I
still can't believe it, really, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Think sometimes is that like a different ballpark financially when
it goes pop?

Speaker 8 (01:06:16):
Yes, for sure, and that song, Like Hardy even texted
me when they were just in Australia and he was like, bro.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
I'm in this coffee shop and they're playing ten thousand Hours.
It's crazy just because it's like, actually I think it's
New Zealand. It wasn't even.

Speaker 8 (01:06:32):
Australia because it's been out a while now, and that's
a difference. I think too that having someone like Justin
on a song, it becomes so international where country I
mean maybe some country stuff does that. I had never
had country stuff that did that. But it definitely is
different money wise. If you get on a pop chart.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Is there a song that obviously another artist is known for.
They may have written with you, or you may have
written it and then it got to them. But it's
very personal to you, but it's just somebody else singing it,
oh yeah, meaning it's about your thoughts not just because
you're so close to it, because you wrote it how

(01:07:13):
you're feeling. But I mean, it's like if you were
singing a song and heavy, the song you would sing
because it really represents who you are.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
I think.

Speaker 8 (01:07:25):
Actually a Brandy. You haven't heard it yet, but she
we wrote a song just the two of us. That's
she put out a month ago. Maybe it's called Buried.
We wrote it last year, I think in the spring.
Just at her, that is a song. It's hard for
me to listen to that song because I had gone

(01:07:47):
through a really brutal breakup. Is completely gutting to me,
and it's still hard for me to She sounds amazing.
I mean, the way they recorded her vocals even was
a really cool thing that Brandy Carlile did. But it's
that one's really hard because it feels so personal.

Speaker 4 (01:08:10):
That it makes me. I don't know that one's hard.
What do you do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
The song right rounds?

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
I don't.

Speaker 8 (01:08:16):
I'm kind of like, I'm kind of shy, and I
even coming in here today, I was nervous, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Now though, yes, yeah I'm super warm, right.

Speaker 8 (01:08:25):
Yeah you are, like yeah, yeah, yes you are. But
I get I get a rash. I might even have
it right now when I get hot or nervous. I
remember when I was trying to get a publishing deal
back when I was like twenty one, I had. I
was sitting across from frank Lydell playing songs on my
guitar and I went into the bathroom and it was

(01:08:46):
so bad, Like I was like, he probably didn't hear anything.

Speaker 7 (01:08:49):
I just did.

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
He watched this rash crawl up me like.

Speaker 8 (01:08:52):
I'm the fucking walking dead or something like she So,
I hate the long story.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Short rounds kind of scared you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
But because I've never seen you play around and now
that I go to many of them now, but I've
been a few, and I've played in a you. I
do some of my comedy stuff, yes, but I never
played with you or seen you play one.

Speaker 8 (01:09:10):
I know, maybe I need to make myself to Chase
actually texted me the other day about doing private stuff
and he was like, dude, like, come on, let's just
go do it together like.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
Jesse and Jr. And we make money whatever, and it's
really good to get over.

Speaker 8 (01:09:24):
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
That's what he said.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
You have big songs. You have really big songs and
a lot of them. It's really good, easy money. Hard
to get those offers, right, it's really.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
If that's what he I know. And have you ever
taken beta blockers?

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
No, you probably have thought about it. Me too for
golf though, because I.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
Can you get too Dutch, that's your nerve wracking.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Like I can walk out on stage do a bunch
of new comedy for two thousand people. I know some
of us gonna bomb. That's okay. I'm not nervous. I
can do radio, be on live TV, whatever, all good
because I've playne it and I've failed some many times.
I know the worst case is going to happen. I
can get through it, no big deal. I like, if
I'm playing golf, yeah, it sucks because I'm like, I'm
shaky as crap. Yes, so I've thought about that. Are

(01:10:10):
you thinking about taking one for oh?

Speaker 8 (01:10:12):
For that, I've thought about it because it's it's not
like Xanax, right, No, we were messes you up, okay,
because I saw it literally on the Kardashians or something
I think where they were like just take a Bana blocker,
and I was like, what is that? And then I
looked into it and now I'm like maybe I can
do that to play more so I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Get a rash or just go xanax fulls had full, drink.

Speaker 4 (01:10:32):
Some whiskey, A good scene. Yeah, I'll be like my
dad in the eighties.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
I saw a TikTok of your dad. It was so funny.
By the way, I was talking about on the show
like two weeks ago, where he was talking about he
does a whole lead in about it he hates funny songs,
and then he goes out property. Yeah, so so funny,
such a funny He's up there just you know, singing,
playing and then he's like, I hate funny songs, and
George Strait called and and then here, well this a
song paying me a lot of money, so I'm doing
And so I just thought it was so fun growing

(01:11:03):
up in a house where your dad that's I mean,
he celebrated for it. Not only does he do it,
but he celebrated for it. Did you always know that's
what you wanted to do?

Speaker 4 (01:11:12):
I think yes, but I didn't want to want to
do it.

Speaker 8 (01:11:17):
Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, Derek Wells, I don't know.
You probably know Derek guitar player. He amazing guitar playary.
He and I talked about it a lot, because we
had a similar upbringing that way, with his mom being
a great singer, his dad and step jobbing great guitar players.
But I tried so hard to not want to write,
and eventually I just I actually moved to California for

(01:11:43):
a year after high school just to get away from
where I was from, really and like to run from it.
At yes, and I was working and I met this
lady that Kathleen Carry. She was at Sony ATV at
the time, and I would I would go play her songs.
And finally one day and I had not talked to

(01:12:03):
my dad about it at all, like I don't think
i'd played him any thing I'd done at all at
that point. And one day I was in their meeting
with her and she was looked at me and was like,
go home. I was like, dang, emilin, that's me. Like
about I was thinking, like she'd like a song or something,
and she's like, no, I mean you write country songs
and you're good at it. I don't care who your

(01:12:24):
dad is, I don't care which complexes. Go try and
figure it out. And so then I tried to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
I guess I didn't think about the complex part of
it because that's heavy.

Speaker 8 (01:12:36):
Oh yeah, it's still I mean, there's still sometimes that
I don't know, it's weird. I think I'll think about
being like Sean Lennon or someone like that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Jacob Dylan.

Speaker 4 (01:12:46):
I don't even know what you do with that.

Speaker 8 (01:12:48):
I really don't, you know, because I'm old enough now
where it's not really it's not really that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
I'm so proud of my dad and I don't even
think about your dad when I think about you. That's
so nice, and I don't know that I would have
gotten over to him. But you mentioned your dad in
the eighties. I was like, oh, yeah, I just watch
a TikTok by him. Yes, So that put me there.
But I don't think. I don't. I don't. I don't
know that I would or would, but I don't. I
don't think about you and that being your dad when

(01:13:14):
I think about you. I don't know if that matters
to you.

Speaker 4 (01:13:17):
It matters a lot to me, especially coming from me,
you know what I mean, it does matter.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
I don't know it. To me, I know it, but
I don't associate those two.

Speaker 8 (01:13:23):
I think it would matter to him even too, because
he I know he always was like, you've got to stop.

Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
But when I was really young, because.

Speaker 8 (01:13:31):
I had people be shitty to me for what reason
for being like his kid and I really went existing.

Speaker 4 (01:13:38):
Well just that they it was either the attitude of.

Speaker 8 (01:13:42):
She's probably not going to be good, she's only doing
this because god he's and I went out of my
way to not have my dad be affiliated with me
trying to get a deal or anything. I just kind
of tried. I was so conscious of him and what
other people would think that, so that was hurtful. And
then I will never forget I had to write with

(01:14:03):
a guy I had idolized most of my life early
on in getting a deal, and he was such a
dick to me, and I couldn't figure out during the
first part of the rite what was going on. And
then he started saying things about my dad and I
was saying, Oh, he has weird beef with my dad,
so I guess he's going to take it out on me.

(01:14:24):
And it was just such a bummer of like the
dometer Heroes kind of moment. I'll still have things certain times,
not often, but I'll think with some of the older
cats who are like a lot of the people I
respect the most that I'll think. I wonder if this
has something to do with my dad versus me.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Emily wise Band is a Grammy winning writer on Hillary
Scott's I Will, and she also crossed over into the
pop world by writing a song for a Camilla Caveo.
Here's a clip of Emily talking about getting super vulnerable
writing the song consequences. If I were to make a
top three or four and it's tough, he's unreal, but
it's Shay from Dan and Shay. Lauren would be up there.

(01:15:06):
Danielle would be up there and like someone that make
Stableton can really sing, but his is so distinct and
that makes him one of But I would guess pure
vocalists like who do you? Who am I missing? I
would put Danielle, Shay and Lauren up there.

Speaker 17 (01:15:20):
Yeah, I mean, I think the cool thing about country
music is that everybody. I love artists. When you can
listen to them and you're like, whether they have runs
for days or not, it's like, oh and that's so
and so, like you can tell just about it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Best vocalists, best vocalist, pure vocal Carrie say Carrie, I
mean Carry's like alien, I say with Carry once and
I was like, what, this is not even real?

Speaker 17 (01:15:41):
Well, yes, she's so amazing, But I personally am a
fan of people who have like cool voices, Like I
love ray Lynn's voice.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
I think it's like a cool voice. But you didn't
give me a chance to pick cool voices. I just said,
best pure vocalist.

Speaker 17 (01:15:55):
Yeah, best pure vocalists I think are cool.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Difficult things gonna go no.

Speaker 17 (01:16:00):
I mean, Shaye's incredible, Danielle is incredible. I love writing
with Danielle. I loved writing with Lauren so much because
if you thought it, she could sing it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
So it was like, you wrote next boyfriend with Lauren?

Speaker 16 (01:16:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Right, what's it like? And I wrote a kid song
with Lauren on my kids record. Yeah, and I because
and I had to sing. And I'm not a good singer.
I'm an I can sing funny that that's about it.
But Lauren would sing and she'd write and she would
see she'd do I was like, Lauren, I can't do that.
You got to write back into where I can sing
because she was so good just even writing. Yeah, Lauren's
so good. What was my point was? I going with this.

(01:16:34):
You remember I felt like I had something good to say?
Always pretty good? Uh, Kamila Cobeoh you wrote Consequences?

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
I did? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
Would you write that.

Speaker 17 (01:16:42):
It's a bonus?

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
I wrote with a bonus, It's like your word.

Speaker 13 (01:16:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (01:16:46):
But like, I just love what I do so much.
I'm really not shitting you, Like I really just like
me too.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
I love what I do, right, I love it. But
I should get paid too, because I'm creating something that
people buy and you do.

Speaker 17 (01:16:58):
And it's great.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
But I get so paid for that song.

Speaker 17 (01:17:01):
I mean I wrote it with Nicole Yay and and Amy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
Watch who's Amy you wrote? How do on Amy? Watch
what else?

Speaker 17 (01:17:06):
Amy wrote? Thinking out Loud by Ed Sheer, And she's
like this dope lady. She's got like covered in tats,
like short, cool hair, a couple kids, like super chill.
It was really really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Reminds me of like Laura Velts.

Speaker 17 (01:17:19):
Yeah, she definitely has like a British Laura Velt's vibe.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
How do you get it involved in a write like
this kind of out of this Nashville world?

Speaker 6 (01:17:27):
Oh?

Speaker 17 (01:17:27):
I guess you drip and fall into it. I I
don't know how we got hooked up with Amy. I
write with Nicole a lot. I love writing the Nicoles.
She's one of my faves.

Speaker 5 (01:17:35):
And so.

Speaker 17 (01:17:38):
My sister probably is pretty good at making me the
shittiest writer in the room.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
And your sister because actually works with you or she does.

Speaker 17 (01:17:45):
Yeah, she manages me and she is the veep of
my publishing company that I'm signed to you. So it's
just so cool having something like that in my corner
all the time. But yeah, I got setups right and
Amy and I almost didn't go that day, honestly because
I'm like, tell all, queen, I'll tell anybody anything. You

(01:18:08):
can ask me my deepest, stark as secret, and I
would probably tell you right now. But I just some
stuff had gone down the day before we wrote that.
I just have you ever been in a blind rage?

Speaker 14 (01:18:19):
No?

Speaker 17 (01:18:19):
Well, I wasn't a blind rage. It was like a
blind shame. I was really ashamed of some stuff that
I have app that I had happened the day before,
And so I almost didn't want to go because I
knew my big fat mouth the second I opened it,
I would tell them everything, and I was like, this
one thing I'm not telling anybody. So I remember I

(01:18:40):
went in at like noon or one. It was like
an afternoon, right, and I had never met Amy, and
neither I had Nicole.

Speaker 8 (01:18:46):
And we go in and.

Speaker 17 (01:18:50):
They started talking to each other like Hi, nice to
meet you, blah blah blah. So I have this one
idea and they're going through it and I'm just sitting there.
I remember staring at these piano keys, like there's no
way in hell I can stay here, Like I can't
write today, this is not gonna happen. I'm like praying
to God to get me out there, like the power
go out or something. I'm like about to text my

(01:19:11):
sister to tell her, like to call me in thirty
and like she's stranding on the side of the road.
I gotta go get her. And I just start praying.
I'm like, God, get me out of here. I can't
tell these girls, like what's going on with me? And
I just heard these three words in my head and
like I'm not a hippitye depity person, but like I
definitely they definitely weren't me. And I do believe in

(01:19:34):
something bigger than me happening all the time. So I
just heard these three words and it was be a writer,
and I thought freaking shit because now I have to
tell them, because that's what being a writer is, you know.
It's like sacrificing your pride and your privacy to like
say what other people can't. And I'm a total like
my shame isn't my shame, it's like everybody's shame. And

(01:19:57):
I just kind of live that way, like with everything,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:01):
So I was like, guys, I gonna tell you something,
and I'm like sobbing my eyes out.

Speaker 17 (01:20:08):
Amy probably thought I was a freaking nuts. Nicole's just
like it's okay. And I tell them, and I'm like,
I have this idea, but like we don't have to
write it, like don't write it out of pity, Like
I don't want this to be a pity, right, But
I have this idea of consequences. It'd be like loving
you at consequences whatever. And they're like, okay. We wrote
the song in like forty five minutes and then we

(01:20:31):
voice mombed it and I didn't think twice about it.
And then at the time, I was dating another writer
in town, Josh Kerr, So I was like, hey, babe,
will you do this demo for me? Just piana vocal
real quick, and he said sure, So I did it.
I sent it to Amy and she called us like
a week later and said, hey, I hope you don't.
I hope y'all don't mind. But I sent this song

(01:20:51):
to Ed Sheeran and I was like, no, I'm pissed
at you, and she said he loves it, but thanks.
His friend Camilla would die over it, and like, do
you mind if he sends it to her?

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
And is this poor Camilla's record before she kind of
known as the solo artist.

Speaker 17 (01:21:09):
I don't even know if Fifth Harmony had broken up yet,
like we were. I was like, okay, cool, Like I
knew about Fifth Harmony, but I didn't. I wasn't like
super clued in to Camilla necessarily so.

Speaker 4 (01:21:23):
Or Camilla.

Speaker 17 (01:21:24):
I probably just butchered that, but yeah, she ended up
like recording it and actually the piano that you hear
on the cut is Josh's piano from the demo. And
it was funny because the first email we ever goot
about it was like, Yo, this is going to be
single and really that okay, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
What everybody said about everything, That's.

Speaker 8 (01:21:39):
What I know.

Speaker 17 (01:21:40):
We were like yeah, sure, and then for it to
actually be single, it was really like a cool God
moment for me because I was like, there's no way
that should have happened.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
So I'm like, thanks, thanks for listening to the special
episode of The Bobbycast. Hope you enjoyed hearing stories from
some of the greatest email songwriters and now Ashville Go
follow on Instagram, enjoy their music. It takes a special
kind of person to be able to sit down and
crank out amazing songs like that, and you can tell
just by hearing them in those interviews they are super

(01:22:11):
passionate about writing. Maybe you're inspired to write a song now.
You never know until you try. Be sure to subscribe
to the Bobbycast wherever you're listening to this and rate
at five stars if you don't mind. Thank you very much.
We're back next week with another episode.

Speaker 12 (01:22:30):
Love this episode of the Bobby Cast. Subscribe on iHeartRadio,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
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