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April 18, 2024 69 mins

For King and Country (@forkingandcountry) are made up of two Brothers Joel & Luke Smallbone. They have a new movie out now called Unsung Hero and we wanted to revisit their episode when they gave us their lifestory and background on the film In 2023, they stopped by Bobby’s house fresh off their trip to the Grammys after earning a nomination with their friend, Hillary Scott of Lady A. Joel shares why he was depressed days after the trip. They share their amazing story of how their family moved from Australia with nothing to the United States and how they got by living in a house without furniture. They got their start touring with their famous sister Rebecca St. James and how they didn’t want anyone to know they were related when they became, For King and Country. They also share stories about their large family, what it’s like working as brothers, their new movie, and their perception as Christian artists.

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Speaker 1 (00:03):
In case you missed it, for King and Country stop by.
And the reason I'm bringing this back up is because
I want you to hear their life story as told
by them. They came by right off their trip to
the Grammys. But what's happening here is they have a
movie coming out about their life, but I guess mostly
about their parents' life. Yeah you saw it? Yeah, and
not only that, Joel plays his dad. He does Okay,

got it? So Joel's playing his dad. Does he look
like his dad? Yeah? I mean yeah, he looks like him.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I mean he's a good looking guy.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:33):

Speaker 1 (00:33):
They're both like athletic and good looking, and it's annoying.
They're also great. But I saw Joel and placed it.
My wife and I go on the weekends for like
a lunch thing, and I only saw him from behind
at first, and I was like, man, that dude dress
is really nice to a couple like on a Sunday,
like full stop. And he was like Bobby. I was like, ah, yes,
he was like classic Hollywood.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah he does look like that.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah. So how'd you go to the movie. I got
a screening for it. Oh they sent it to you.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, Oh cool.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Did you feel like you learned anything about them? Was
it how hollywooded up? Was it?

Speaker 4 (01:07):

Speaker 1 (01:07):
What was the deal?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Honestly, Like, this isn't a movie I typically sit down
and watch, and then I was kind of surprised of
just how good it was.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
I wasn't gonna ask you if it was good or not,
because I want you to have to lie.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
No, the same thing I'm going into it. It's a
faith based film, and sometimes they're a little bit overly cheesy,
or even music based films I have a problem with
because they focus so much on like, ah.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Here's how they had their rise.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
But this one was so good about just telling their
family story, in particularly their mom and how much she
was just the glue of the entire family. So it
was all about their struggles, and then they kind of
sprinkled in all the music stuff. And then Freaking and
Country isn't even at the forefront of it, Like them
becoming a duo isn't really a part of the story.
It's like, all right, we're gonna tell a story of
our parents, of our mom, and then our sixthchool.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
This is the prequel of Freaking and Country's life.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, you just see them as kids, and it's like, oh,
it doesn't even like make references like, oh, they're going
to go on and do something.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Freaking your country. By the way, if you're not familiar,
you can listen to this. But they're so good. I
knew know how good they were because I'd never seen
them perform live. I don'tly ever talk to them. They
performed in the studio. Holy crap, one of the best
live performances we've ever had, even on this tiny stage.
But they're so good. The movie is called Unsung Hero,
and he's playing his dad, and they even talk about
in this how they didn't say for a long time

that their sister was Rebecca Saint James, who's also wildly popular,
wildly successful in the Christian music scene. So you liked it, huh. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Joel does a really good job playing his dad.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I think there's like a part of the movie where
he like really shows how good of an actor he is.
Of like, like there's one part where his dad just
kind of like snaps and like, oh, man, like where
did he go to in his brain to get that?

Speaker 1 (02:38):
For King of Country has won five Grammy Awards. Yeah, dang,
I was trying to count them here I think five. Okay, well,
enjoy this getting to know them. I really like him.
I hope you really like them. And I was not
gonna ask if the movie was good. That's good because
I knew you wouldn't lie. And I also just wanted
to promote it was out there and I know that. Yeah,

face movies can sometimes be way cheesy if they choose
to use that as the absolute central element because it
gets a bit preachy.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, because it's more about their struggles and it just
happens to be based in their faith.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, and I feel like you can learn regardless. I
just want to play the interview. Yeah, unsung hero, here
it is. That's the movie. Here's for King and Country
right here on the Bobby cast. Gentlemen, good to see you.
Good to see you.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Man from LA to nash Vegas.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
And I wouldn't say this, but I was just with
you guys like I'm fried because this is the time
jump constantly, and I'm sure you guys have to be too,
did you, guys? I didn't stay for the show. As
soon as I was done working, I flew right home.
I had to get on the air the next morning.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
No, yeah, you didn't even get the benefit of the payoff.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I was gonna ask how the show. I'm assuming you
guys went, yeah, we did. How what I mean, Luke
did idly? Why didn't go at all? I mean, like.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Just so the grabmy, you know, the academy I stayed.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
So let's we're gonna approach this a couple of different ways.
One we'll approach it because a lot of folks that
are hearing this will be introduced to you for the
first time. You know, I think we're both in a
world of we have built what we've built in our
place and it feels great, but everything is so fractured.
We're reaching new people all the time. It almost don't
matter how big you get it, you just haven't. There's

just so much out there. And so we'll approach it
is people have never heard of you. But we'll also
approach it as we've kind of known each other at
this rate for a little bit and we've just spent
a couple a couple hours together. Sort of sort of
feels good to see you guys though, because I'm just
not that long for you. It's like a warm to

wish to all of you.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Don't know us, but you know, and love Bobby. It
was awesome to see him in that environment because yes,
he all the things, he owned it. He was Bobby,
he was himself. But there was this thing of like,
I'm amazed that you'll hear right now, like I'm amazed
that you actually you did that thing.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Are you saying that to me? Or I was saying
that to you?

Speaker 3 (05:00):
No, I'm saying it to you.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh got it? Yeah? Thanks. I mean, it was good
to see you guys, because I don't do well in
Hollywood and I have a whole and I don't know,
maybe you guys could speak on this in a different way,
but fame, how we grew up is not fame now.
Everything is very fractured. You could be wildly popular and
one certain section of this entertainment world crazily popular, and

you could go somewhere else and nobody knows who you are.
Or you can get all these crazy benefits, which I
got all my clothes for free, which is crazy to me,
and when I was poor, I got nothing for free.
And so then there's this guilt, but then there's this
awesomeness and you don't know which parts like a drug.
I just it's weird for me because I had nothing
ever happened till later in my career, and now everything now,
everything's like happening, and yet there's still all these failures

that you don't talk about, and so I constantly go
through a lot of these these struggles and wellness checks
on myself.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
And that is why we have podcasts. Everyone.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, no, this is great.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
You know, I'm being serious. This is the only forum left.
I think that you can actually digest some of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
I agree, and you can sit down in it, right
and with you guys, I like, look at your shows,
meaning I'll see video or pictures not even that you post,
and it is They're massive. It's massive, I mean, and
people that have seen you guys are passionate and they
love you and you're selling out. But again, I would
imagine that in Los Angeles you walk around there and

people are like, who the crap are you?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
We felt awesome. We felt awesome on Sunday because we
had Hillary Scott from Later. She helped us out. Every
time we're like the Redheaded STEPSHOWD usually grab me.

Speaker 5 (06:35):
Usually we start walking down that red coping room. Before
we went on there, we were talking about how long
it is. It's the longest one I ever seen. It's
a very very long ago. And usually we walk down
there and people are like.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
Well cool, I'll just keep so to the listeners, this
is what happens to the view, that's what happens. So
you have a publicist with you and they go out
in front of you and it's basically to free for all.
This sort of tests the waters.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Like embarrassing for me when I have to do that.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Do you want it to go to these people?

Speaker 1 (07:00):
But every want to talk to me.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
And and most of the time we've been we've been
a duo for a better part of a decade now,
about a decade, and most of the time it's like so.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
You see, get rejected for a year and then the
canary dies most times. But but I thought about you guys,
is that they are all of these Hollywood celebrities that
people know, but you guys are out selling them. They
just have no idea. That's what was crazy to me,
because because we spend a few minutes together and you
won't say this, you don't have to say this, and

but it's my whole like theory on fame and fractured
fame and success and for me trying to just find
my own flfilment and what I enjoy, and I have
to do that now. I can't compare it to what
it used to be. I can't compare it to what
I thought it would used to be, what my goals
used to be ten years ago. But I would see
you guys, and I would go, Man, if people had
any idea how successful and popular and how many tickets

these guys sell like, they would be going crazy to
know that you were just walking down that carpet. And
so that was my thought when I saw you guys. Oh, man,
you are welcome face.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, you're a friendly face. Friendly face.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I don't like LA. I don't like it. No, I
think what you're saying, I don't like it. Yeah, I
think what you're saying is well spot on.

Speaker 5 (08:12):
LA is about putting on the way that you want
to be perceived, right, And so everybody there is posturing
at some level.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Oh, the people watching when it's good.

Speaker 5 (08:23):
Oh, I'll tell you this story. So we were walking down.
We were walking down, my wife and I, Courtney. We
were walking down to our seats and it was a
madhouse because everybody shows up late. So obviously the show
started at five and it's very tense, and so you've
got traffic issues. So we're like five fifteen and the
show's already been going and there's like hundreds of people
trying to go down this one aisle. I'm like, why

are we sitting there? This is insane. I had to
wait in the car.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
It off for a long time. Fifteen by the way,
seven fifteenth Central. Just people know it's back two hours,
that's right.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
So we're waiting for it, and there was like this
pressure behind us that I'm like, guys, I mean, we
can't go any further and show enough. There was a
security gund on his I've got Megan Fox here and
machine gun killing and I've got to get them down there,
but I can't get them down there, and she's having
a panic attack while we're here. This is the mean

So saw that this is the level of intensity and
what you realize, Man, my heart broke for a lot
of people in LA.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
That's what I felt me too. And I never thought
I would feel that way until I got close to it.
I always felt jealous of it until I would see
it and go, I don't know that that's real. I
don't know that if I was around that all the
time because it's a constant competition.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Right, I think it would kill us, man, I think so.
I think you and I to him from the same cloth. Well,
we sat right on the edge so in the crypto
dot com arena now, which i'm but you know, it
was sort of the main acts and so on, we're
in the middle at these tables and then we were

just just on the side about five or six rows back,
so we had like this per effect. Bird's eye view
was amazing. And there it's a it's a fish bowl, man.
People don't want to get in the fish bowl.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
And you guys maybe are more mature than I am.
But don't you get a lot of resentful that you're
not in the seats with the said you've had.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
I said to my sister.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
You won by the way you won too, I believe
did you win? You didn't win. Thanks, I expect you.
Thanks for taking the s a little bit deeper, Bobby,
Thank you. Who did you guys lose to having city? Okay,
I could just assume you guys win everything it was.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
It was, it was there, it was the moment.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
It's good for them, for them. I don't want to
get but.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
It's a strange thing. I turned. I turned to my
sister and I said, uh, Beka, I just like it's
just you just feel you feel like an outsider. But
then at some point you realize that that's actually a
fish bowl that they're in, Like this's literally in the arena.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
You've got all these people, now right, what happened? What
happened with just like so bored? I mean it was
like the greatest performances, you know what.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
I could see it from the side, like the hip
hop performance. Everyone was losing their mind and you had
been precariously right in the middle, just like I don't
know what.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
To do, Like what do I do with my hands?
Kind of type thing, except this whole body rate. Well,
the congratulations on all the success, and I just assumed
you guys want did you guys win it last year
with Hillary? Is that why? I thought that? Not that
either too? All right, well, moving on before all right, Yeah,
how many fool Then you can't be if you've won

four Grammys you're like Beyonce, then you can't be massed.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
You always gotta get more, man.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I hear for three days too long.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
I love this fractured fame idea.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
I mean, you go to TikTok and there's somebody. I'll
give you an example. There's a guy as a kid,
his name is Brew and he got popular on TikTok.
He just did ready on Detroit. But I like him
a lot, young kid, but he just found a funny
thing to do and he got to talk famous and
he has millions of followers. And I was talking to
him for a while, and some of the guys in
the industry were kind of hate on him because just because

they couldn't figure how to do it, he did, and
I was like, dude, screw him. You figured out somebody
something that nobody else could. And they're upset about it.
But a lot of people know who he is. But
he's very TikTok famous. But if you went to Walmart
and Chesapeake, Virginia, is probably not going to get stopped.
If he's in LA he may get If I walk
in in Nashville and having dinner, people record me eating.

If I go to Los Angeles, nobody gives a crap
at all. Right, So it's so fractured where I go
and one night, but that's I like that because for
the most part, people don't care.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
I think that's where we land. Ultimately, I'm with you
on the like you can get stuck. If I was
in LA, I think I'd be sort of a jittery
mess and like sort of I would drink the kool
aid if I could show a moment of self awareness.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
I agree this would I would have drank the kool aid.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
But and it probably would have killed us both. We've
met each other, you know, bind off the street, you know, but.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
From each other confused past.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
But Nashville has been great for us because we often say,
like if New York's the business and LA is the entertainment,
like Nashville is the heartbeat of the art. So Nashville
has been amazing. And family doing it with family. I'm
so proud. I was so excited he you married, because
that's been the other part of it. It's like just
the grounding of marriage in this whole, Like you're just

trying to figure out right side up from upside down
in this thing. And we actually love now. Luke is
like six foot thirteen, so he's a bit inconspecraus it.
I know that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
I'm sorry, six foot five ish, that's so cool.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
If he slouches us four but he's that's so cool.
But but so he's a bit hard to but I
put a ball cap on and.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
It's away from all that. I was proud to see
you guys there, and I just thought if everybody else
knew how actually one awesome and successful you were, they
just had no idea. It was just like you were
just like this, you know, corn walking around and there
with such success and they had no idea. And I
was like, you guys, thank you got something going on.
Look at these dudes. It's great. By the way, you
look great. Your suit was awesome. Youres are pretty good,
but here's awesome. Like I was, I remember just going

be like, dude, what are you wearing? Not as for
like TV, I don't like doing red carpets. I didn't
try to apply to do that job. They came to
me and said, we need somebody to do this that
knows a little bit about all formats. So if it
was like Grandmaster Flash was there, I could talk to
him Bonnie Ray. So that's why I was there, and
I just but I don't know anything about fashion, and
I'd be like, you're pretty like that's not what you say.

I'd be like, well, but okay, then what do you wear?
Then I was like, what's what you got there? What's
that sit? He's like, I don't know, man, And so
there it was. But congratulations on all of that. I
digress from that. Let's go back to the very beginning.
Your accents are obviously from Texas or something.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
Definitely, Yeah, Boston.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Boston, from Australia.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
What part born in Sydney, lived in Brisbane?

Speaker 1 (14:58):
What's the difference?

Speaker 5 (15:01):
They're different cities, Bobby, uh, Sydney is about a thousand
kilometers south of Brisbane.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
So they're not even close. No, okay, so I've been
to Sydney. No, yep, A wonderful place, right, I loved it. Yeah,
it's amazing place. Haven't been to Brisbane. But I say,
what's the difference in culturally? Because you can say that
about America right in Boston and Austin.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
I mean Sydney's, Sydney's New York and Nashville is Brisbane?

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah? Probably Brisbane have a culture like a music. I
wouldn't say it Melbourne.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
I wouldn't say it does Melbourne.

Speaker 5 (15:35):
You know, Brisbane is interesting because it's it's kind of
locked behind an island that makes all the beaches not
so cool. So it's a little bit more business iron it.
It's a it's a younger city compared to you know,
Melbourne is a huge city.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Sydney is a huge city. Sydney is a huge city.
So you were born in.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
Sydney in a little town, a suburb of Sydney called WARUNGA.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
True story, true story, that's our passports.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, so you're born near Sydney and you end up
leaving to go to Nasbane for a few years. Why
Brisbane though, was at school? Was it your parents?

Speaker 3 (16:12):
No, we had family up there.

Speaker 5 (16:14):
My dad was a concert promoter in Australia and he
lost a lot of money on a tour, a single tour,
and amy grant to a yeah, and so he went
up to We had we had family up in Brisbane,
and it was kind of like, hey, well we had
to sell a house and had to do that whole thing.
And so we went up to Brisbane as kind of
a holding pattern to kind of see what was next.

And then parents made a decision to move to Nashville, Tennessee,
and we went along.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
There was six of us at the time, six kids.
So when he makes that decision or they made that decision.
You know, the unit was Nashville. Was it because of
the industry and the opportunity to have a shot at
what his skill set already was.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
He was forty six, kids went on the way, well,
my mum was pregnant with our little sister Libby, and
literally Bobby packed sixteen suitcases, moved halfway around the world
plane train and automobile, literally like flew in, got into LA,
got on a train from LA to like Memphis, and
actually ran over a bloke on the train.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Wait, all of you together, he's all of us together?
Night train?

Speaker 3 (17:20):
No, No, we all went together.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
How old do you remember this? Yeah, you do, so
you're a distinct memory. Okay, keep going.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
And then got to Memphis and got in a taxi
from Memphis to Nashville to Union Station, like three miles
from here. We stayed there for two weeks. Two months
later Dad lost his job.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
He had a job here though that he had advance he.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Was going to be a manager. Got fired. Sleeping on beds,
man out of clothes, no car, nowhere to get home.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Where are you sleeping on these beds? In Brentwood Lipscomb Drive.
So it was like a rental like you.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
Yeah, we showed up and obviously, you know, there's no furniture,
and so we lived in a furniture this house for
what it was months.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
It was months, and we had the best time of
the world. I was going to ask if that feels
like a loving time, like if it feels like as kids. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (18:12):
No, that's what's actually funny about. You know, I got
my wife and I we got four kiddos ourselves. And
it's interesting what kids pick up on because obviously this
had to have been and was a tense time for
my parents, but for us, we're playing cricket inside.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
You never allowed to do that, you know.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
You you were able to make special memories because you
felt loved and you knew you were loved. You didn't
care if you had a couch or not. You didn't
care if you had a bed or not. I mean,
I just distinctly remember the sheet, trying to put the
sheet around making my bed, putting the sheet around clothes,
and you're trying to get the clothes to kind of
hang to to give you.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
A corner of your bed.

Speaker 5 (18:48):
And I remember my mom coming in helping me make
that bed. And I never thought anything of it.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
It was just this kind of adventure. Yeah, we rate leaves,
mode lawns, cleaned houses, so all of the money went
back into the family.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
So there's your mom and your dad, there's you two.
Who's older of you two? What do you think?

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah, he's looking deep into the well.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
You've grown taller. Yeah, maybe it would take more time
to do that.

Speaker 5 (19:14):
However, I really thinking about this, but who would be older?

Speaker 1 (19:20):

Speaker 3 (19:23):
You have to at least take a guess. It's it's okay, now,
I know you have a fifty chance of being right.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
I know, but probably probably Joel, are you older?

Speaker 3 (19:33):
I am? No one ever gets.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
People do the same thing as it's not. It's a
it's a leader thing. Sometimes you grab the role of
I am gonna I'm just the big.

Speaker 5 (19:46):
It's actually funny speaking of that. I think that's actually
helped us in music is because I've knownly I've said
this to Joel Fia that I will knowingly give you
the answer to the first question, the first moment in
the room every time, because I younger brother.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
So that's how it always was. It's always been that way. Okay,
But where do you guys rank in the all the siblings.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
I'm the deprived middle child.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
It explains a lot. And are you the youngest of all?

Speaker 5 (20:11):
No, I'm the third youngest thing. I got a little
brother and a little sister.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Wow. Okay, So in little house there is you two,
your two parents, there's two other six. There's six other
kids or five other kids, so seven total.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
That's why five boys, two girls, two parents.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Flow in your mind all across the world. You get
to flu all the way across the world together. Ye,
So he gets here and loses his job. So then
what I don't know? Then?

Speaker 3 (20:36):
What we well, like I said, we we were like
literally raking leaves. We found some lawn equipment of the house.
We were raking leaves one day and someone came by
and said, hey, would you help now, because we moved
in the fall or the awesomnest we'd call it. And
so we started doing jobs for folks. Not long after,

it was Thanksgiving and and and so we'd been going
to a local church and they'd sort of we really
stuck out like a sore thumb, you.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Know, because you're actually.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Because accents, there's there's seven kids all under the edge
of fourteen. You know, we weren't dressed and we were
going to a Baptist church. So everyone in that era,
like the Baptist church was you know, the suits and
the holding, and we just we had no clothes. So
we just sort of rag tag, like two parents and
seven little ducklings into the church. And the church really

was kind of school class in the church really rallied
around us and and.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Us away, and we.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Prayed for for everything. We prayed for food, We prayed
for our bills to be covered.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Was that a big because for me it was if
it wasn't for my youth director in church, and it
wasn't for different different seasons of my life in church.
But we'ven't had food Christmas presents, you know, exactly same
and so and I don't want it. I'm asking that
question by going, that's my story and so for your story,
please share it too. But I mean I remember once

the only gift I got was one of those color
By paint sets and it was from these and the
church brought me wanted. I'm just happy to have a gift.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, it was so the first Christmas we were here
because we loved Santa growing up. I mean, we were
homeschool as well, so I probably believed in Santa for
about five years too many.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
He was like fifteen.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
But and I remember mum coming because.

Speaker 5 (22:22):
A dangerous conversation in Australia podcast Yeah Block Gil Children's.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah we can do that, where she said, you know,
because in Australia were the big thing about Santa, and
Sandra was awesome in Australia and we came over here.
It was like, hey, guys, Santa's only able to bring
you things from the dollar shop this year. And I
was like, what are you talking about, Like, Sander's not
impacted by our financial situation. He's coming and she was like, well,

he might not know where we live. We're like, how
did she? Of course he knows. It's Santa like and
underknown to us. A first grade school class found out
that we won't be able to give each other gifts
and they sponsored our Christmas with Santa, and we had
more gifts that year. It was just such an iron
ironic moment. Barely anything in our house. We had the

most gifts we'd ever gotten, and just more gifts than ever.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Did you guys feel shame? Man?

Speaker 5 (23:16):
I don't know if I you know what, that's probably
a better question for my parents, because I'm sure they did.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I'm sure my dad did. Actually it's still I think
a wound.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah, he did for us.

Speaker 5 (23:26):
Man, my parents did a pretty good job of like
teaching us like, man, it doesn't really matter what what
everybody else thinks. And we were odd because obviously we
you know, my accent has been very compromised now, but
very Australian we were. There was a bunch of us,
we were young, and so you had all these the
grannies coming up.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Oh they're so cute and all, you know, So you know,
we were used to sticking out. And but I don't
think I ever felt any shame.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
And part of it was it's funny because we still
work together with family, real, real close, and I think
that if we hadn't have moved, our family friendships would
be much more, to use a word that we've used before, fractured.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Right. But because you come to a new place, you speak,
you know, even.

Speaker 5 (24:05):
Though culturally and together, even though culturally Australia and America
are fairly similar, it's still totally different, if that makes sense.
And so you're experiencing things that make you feel a
little unsafe. So who do you turn to you turn
to your older brother, you turn to your younger brother,
you're talking to you, You're leaning on your older siblings.
And I think because of that, family has become such

a strong nuculus for us that otherwise I don't think
makes a lot of sense in the Western world, but
for us, that's all we had. And so what happened
was is you grew up with it, and so now yeah,
we still work really really closely.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
So the end of the stories, our sister started traveling
and she older, yes, oldest okay, and so managed her.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
And so is that kind of his path? Then did
he did he go? And did you know she had talent?

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, she was in like the rock band at school
in Australia.

Speaker 5 (24:56):
She'd done some demos and things in Australia, and so
there was she'd opened.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
For which by your sister is Rebecca Saint James.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
And so in Australia she kind of already had.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I mean, man, she was six, she was fifteen, sixteen.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
She was fourteen when we came.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yeah, fifteen, I think when she signed sixteen, when she
released her first album. He he took around every label.
No one want to have anything to do with her.
It took her to Four Front Records with editor Gamo
and Dan Brock and Greg Ham, and they said we'll
sign her because ironically they thought she could be the
next Amy Grant, which Amy Grant was the reason we
were here in the first place, because he lost all
the money on the emmigrant to her. So it was

sort of this bizarre full circle moment. And then we
all traveled together. So we jumped in like a four
to fifteen passenger van.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
So you went with your dad and sister kind of roadies,
almost because.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Dad needed cheap labor. He looked around and Story had
five sons, and we all became their own.

Speaker 5 (25:49):
First Our first jobs were I was a spotlight operator,
I think at nine crazy Stories, child label laws broken
be broken. I mean, Joel was a stage manager at like,
you know, twelve thirty. I became a lighting director at
like fourteen fifteen. I mean, just crazy things. I mean
I remember going.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Up to these festivals and it was good that I
was speaking of being tall.

Speaker 5 (26:08):
I would go up to these festivals and I have
these Union guys and Eveion guys are tough cookies, right,
and they would look at me and they thought, maybe
he's sixteen you know, maybe it's legal, you know, because
he's that tall, and I was like this young guy,
and she would be performing in front of thousands of
people as a Grammy Award winner and.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I was the lighting guy. I mean, none of it
made sense. But you know here we.

Speaker 4 (26:27):
Were hang tight. The Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow,
and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Did she have an un I don't know if unfair
is the word. Did she have a pressure on her
though as a fifteen six year old, because now here
she is she's huh, what do you think? I mean
a thousand percent yah as a kid, and it's all
on her now. I don't know where. I've never met
your sister before, but I just think about that. I mean,
she he is now the sun in that she's she's

with dad. I just wonder what she what she felt
like then, if she was able to be a kid
at all, or.

Speaker 5 (27:12):
I wouldn't say not much, you know. And now Beck
was always mature, well beyond her years. She was always
a third mom, that's right, But you I mean maybe
it's just maybe as for me, as I'm getting older
and I've got young kids, you start to realize that
there's pros and constant absolutely everything in life.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
And she was always super mature.

Speaker 5 (27:33):
But if you if you kind of skip a few
steps in life, there's gonna be some ramifications to that, right,
and Beck's done amazing. But I think that she would
come on, if she was able to come here, she'd
probably say, yeah, there was a difficult There were some
difficult days because you don't get to live out childhood
in some cases, you don't get to make some some

mistakes without even.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
The teenagehood and young adulthood.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, all that just it all rests on her, or
did for a while a long time. So you guys
are traveling around and then is everybody doing music in
your family at some point? Though in some way obviously
you're working making sure that the bit, But does everybody
know something?

Speaker 5 (28:12):
Kind of?

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah? So like not like our youngest brother is our
general manager? Kid?

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Though does the does your mom and dad say everybody
you have to learn how to play?

Speaker 3 (28:26):
We were not down, We were not.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
All in down with musical really.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Okay, don't get Josh in here to sing, it'll be upset.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
But could he play if he needed none? Okay?

Speaker 3 (28:38):
So he's the business guy?

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Was that always his thing. Even as a kid, he
was the merchandise.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
He was the merchandise kid. What's been cool is like
mom really felt a promise when because she was terrified.
Mom our mom, who's a hero. She had just had
three brothers, all in the education system in Australia. They're
all like principles, and she pulled our kids out of
school and then homeschool all of them.

Speaker 5 (29:01):
Which and you're also talking around you know, twenty something
years ago where.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Home homes going is not cooling. I mean it's still
maybe not cool, but everyone homeschool during COVID, so it
became much more publicly accessible, you know. But but so
she takes not only out of school, takes them on
the road and she's terrified, like they're not getting a
proper education. She really sends to God say don't worry
else teaching what they need to know. And what's crazy
is you fast forward, you go down the list. We're

all still working in the roles that we learned. Like
so our brother is an awfully successful lighting designer and director.
He just you know does like the chick fil a
Summits and all the rest of our brother. Ben's a filmmaker,
we're in the band together, you know, Josh is a
general manager, Libby's an artist, our younger sister in a Questrian,
our older sister Rebecca, so that we're all still doing
the same thing.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
It sounds to me like your mom's kind of the
unsung because as we talk about everybody's stories here, your
dad and him, but it sounds like your mom was
just such a fundamental at times unheralded.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Like pillar, I love what you're going to say. You're
gonna say, unsung hero.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
I was, I don't know where. Yeah, are your parent
Are they still alive? By the way, Yeah, mom and dad? Okay,
your mom sounds strong. Yeah, I mean that that's regardless
that she just sounds strong. Here's the thing.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
You know, it's interesting because, and I would say this
with my dad in the room.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
My dad was the he's the full runner.

Speaker 5 (30:24):
You know, he's the he's the entrepreneur, he's he's he's
you know, a big personality. But he's nothing without my mom.
And I think for us, you know, even someone asked
me the other day a little bit like, hey, how
was it raised being raised in your family?

Speaker 1 (30:40):
And I said, you know what, it's interesting. No parents
are ever perfect.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
We all know that.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Everybody knows that.

Speaker 5 (30:45):
But my mom handled the big moments perfectly. There was
never a big moment for me where it was like,
cause I got I told my acl in high school
and I had, you know, some issue even being doing
the job out on the road. I struggled with it
a little bit, you know at times, and was mom
handled those moments, those ones where you come and you're like,
I've got a little bit of a crisis going here,

those conversations, the moments that transpired after that, she nailed
it. It was like she knew the right things to say
when I needed the right things to hear them, to
absorb them, to grow from them.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
She told them to me.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
It's just as we were telling these stories, I just
felt hints of your mom at all times that work pillar.
That's that again. I don't know her could be wrong,
but I felt like that that was the case. And
when you talk about her being her family, being in
the school system and she's like, I feel like this
is the right thing to do. Didn't sound like the
most popular thing that she could have done, the most

conventional thing that she could have done.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
She had her mom calling Nana just like, well, then, please,
why didn't she come home? This is awful? What is
your husband doing this.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
To your children? You know that stuff?

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Yeah, yeah, you know it's crazy, Bobby you here's a
pair of them. Yeah, it's uh, we literally just came
from this is a true story. We just we've been
working for about two two and a half years on
telling our mum and Dad's my creation story, the literally
from mum's perspective, because she is sort of our unsung hero.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
What do you mean, been telling it? Working on telling it?

Speaker 3 (32:18):
We've been working on a film, got it? So we've
been working on a on an independent six million dollar
feature film. And we just literally hopped in the car
and came from watching the first thirty minutes of it.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
So, well, isn't that kind of wild how we got there?
Because we didn't I have all these notes. I've been
looked at a single note on you guys, because we
just started talking and we were here.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
I haven't really talked. I haven't really even announced the
film that much yet because it doesn't come out till
later in the year.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Well, what an organic way to even bring it up.
They don't even announce it now.

Speaker 5 (32:50):
Well, what's funny? Is you Actually you were using the
word unsung hero. That's what you want?

Speaker 1 (32:56):
That is what literally I was about to say that,
and I thought I'm not going to say I want.
It didn't matter, but I did almost standsung hero. That's right. Yeah,
that's funny. Well look she is. That's awesome. I can't
wait to hear more about it when you guys are
ready to talk about it. Just back to the Los Angele.
When did you guys get back? I got back yesterday evening, yeah,
last night. And you're like, you're good, you have energy,

not tired.

Speaker 5 (33:19):
I mean, like, what are you doing when I've done
We've done worse, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
You know, it's a little bit of weariness. I get
slightly depressed. I got a bit depressed from well, it
was a bigger week for me because so we flew
out we did this Chick fil A summer in San
Diego the beginning of the week, and then I went
into a bunch of like and had some great meetings
and whatnot about the film and just different entities and people,
and then went straight out of that into the the

Grammy thing and then straight at that to home. And
my wife's been away three weeks too. She's in Spain
working on a project, and so I just don't feel
speaking of grounding. I just I just got home last
night and I was like, just need to check in
with myself for a moment. There's something too about like
Hillary Scott, who you love. We love like she's just

a joy.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
I guess a human being. Yeah obviously, lady, yes, but
like Hillary has a humor thing just amazing, awesome.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
She's an incredible vocalist, but she's an even better person.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
And I felt it.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
We just I just felt attle bit of sadness, like
she featured on this song with us and flown her
out there and had this moment and it was still beautiful,
but I just had this You sort of feel like
a bit of a parent in that.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I feel like you owed it to her to win.
Is that what you're saying. I don't think you subconsciously
are saying that.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Maybe yeah, yeah, it's just you know, don't you believed
in us absolutely?

Speaker 1 (34:38):
But let me just flip it around a little bit.
I'll just be Hillary for a second. I feel like
I owed it to you guys that I can see
her putting the same pressure on herself and they have yeah,
and I would if I mean, if it were me
and you were like, do this song and I'm like, ah, y,
I come on, and we don't win. I hope you
don't put that burden on you because I think in

the same way, she's probably doing that to her off
in the same way, and it is not fair. I
can tell you one thing about the Grammys and you're
on the board and you don't have you don't need
to comment on this. It's just run a different way
because I know that I vote, and sometimes even with
all the votes from my perspective, from what I have learned,
not you guys. There are people that can sit in
the room and go, you know what, I don't know

if that we're gonna go with the we're gonna as
a board just picked this one instead, and that was
an issue for a while. They got some. So you
shouldn't feel that way. And I'm I'm absolutely bananas when
it comes. I am in my head all the time,
anxious about stuff constant, and I tell you, I think
there's a lot of us the ways that we're similar.

She's probably going dang, I feel like I let them down.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah, no, I think, And it's it's funny. It's a
good life moment to just going. I mean, look, I
wasn't contemplating passing to the next life or anything. But
I just got home last night, and again it was
empty home. It was like six days away, and I'd
been like, I've been going that whole it came home.
I've been going pretty hard that whole time, and I
was like, oh, it's a bit sad because I literally

had this lonely boy sat out on the balcony last night,
just looking out in the distance, like on my own.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Do you do that? When I would do that would
be after a show. Now I didn't have a wife
or family, right, and I would go out and do
stand up and have a really good show.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
I think that's probably that was the proverbial end of
show for me.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
And now I go I go back to a hotel
and be just lonely as crap. I get all this
love out on stage, and I'll go back and just
be sad, because what do you do. You turn on
the fresh prints on the on the TV and sit
there alone and wait for the next show.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Last night, I had a bath and I listened to Bono.
Here's that book Surrender which is a marvelous book. By
the way, I just put the so no No speaker on
the bar like Bono comfort me, and it was great.
Bono comforted me in the shower.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
In the bath, I was fully closed and sometimes no,
you weren't. You weren't fully but I get that feeling
of like rush, but your wife's also gone, yeah, so
that's not helping things. But also you're not me for
a grammy. It's like I have to check myself sometimes too,
and I'm.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Like, well, but but that's the shame. That's the shame part,
because then you go from like oh gee, and then
and then you swing back to this, like you like
the life I said to Rebecca and our system when
we're out there, I was like, the life that we're
like that we've been. We went from like literally beds
man out of clothes and I was like, Beck, isn't
this amazing that we're literally in La together going to

like looking at this celebrating music's biggest night together And
we've devoted our lives to music. So it's like yeah,
And so then shame creeps in. It's it's just a
weird it's a weird cycle.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Soir and if we weren't crazy creative, I'll just use
the alliteration there, we wouldn't be in this business anyway.
But it just goes hand in hand with how we
have to judge and juggle our emotions as a creative
like it's going to happen or yeah, I mean we
got into this being like this, so why would we
not be like this once we're in it? And so
you guys are a therapy at all I.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Have I do. Let me know, you'll let me know
your bloke or Sheila not now.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
They call you guys called Sheila's. Is that? Is that
a woman in Australia? You guys do z or z
z z. That's weirder than all of every That's the
weirdest thing. So a conversation is you know what, you
know what the weirdest thing? You guys in America say
h it's h h.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
You say Henry, You don't you say for Henry?

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah? Yeah, I'm I can't justify the English language for many, many,
many reasons, the American version of it, because it's if
I had to not learn a language, it'd be the
American version of English because we got it's everywhere all
the time.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
You're just doing the most. America is just doing the
most all the time. Your rs how like Car, it's
so hard to say, Car, hey man, how are you today?
It's great to be here on the Bobby Bones Show.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Like that.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
My mouth is tired.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Do you have different accents in Australia? Are you kidding?
What do you mean? Like you know, like, al, you're good,
I'm right here you go. I just figure that was
more Australian. I didn't know it was a different accent
in Australia. I just figured that was like deep, more
in the middle or something. I mean, if you're in
Australia and you hear a Boston accent, no, you can
hear it when you hear the American different, yes, okay,

all I hear is a thicker Australian accent. I don't
hear different accent.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
Adelaide, Adelaide, you know, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney all different in
the the outback of Australia. Those guys, man, it's a
whole other language.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah I have. Yeah, you know some of those guys
in there, they get real yeah. I mean I just
thought it was more Australian. Honestly, I wouldn't be able
to tell me. I mean, I was like, well, they're
really Australia.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
You call them bogans, so you have I suppose you
call them rednecks here we have bogans.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Like the bush is what I would learn. Like that's
like the country and this was the rabbit trail of
all rabbit trails. That's just podcast. Like you said, you
you can do this, you can do this. You are
your sister is her success? When when do you think
it hit Not that she's not still at peak, but
when did it first hit the peak for her? And

where were you guys then when that was happening for her,
were you still working with her? Did you have aspirations
to do that? Were you doing music around her? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (40:16):
So we grew up so we were roadies and then
Joe started doing background vocals for Abackground. Okay, it was
a disasre and it was as some good footage of
that you should find somewhere.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
The trouble is when you make it when you when
you have kids who do not have the grounding of
school and then they travel and then you put them
in front of thousands of people. It's just a recipe
for like a homeschool of fourteen year old kids to
think he's awesome and have no right. So it's just crazy.

Speaker 5 (40:42):
Still getting to travel and do some of the things
that's different education.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Were you jealous of her success as a kid, she was.

Speaker 5 (40:51):
I don't think that we ever really. I mean for me,
you know, I grew up with melodies in my head.
I've always grown up with thoughts in my head, you
know that could become songs. But I actually never thought
that I would do music until probably when I was
eighteen nineteen.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Really so all the time on the road working in music, yeah,
and actually so close to it then, yeah, I think so.
I just thought that I was going to be there
to help her along.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
I always felt like I worked for my sister and
it was kind of a nice thing, you know, and
it was like there was no ego attached to it.
And it wasn't until you know, kind of Joel came
along and was like, hey, man, what do you think
about writing some songs and singing on some demos. That
we got to a point of kind of considering it,
and I said yes. In some cases because A I
didn't have anything else going. But two I think that

I knew that there was something I heard these things,
you know I heard. You know, I used to listen
to music and go, why did they do that with
that melody? They should have changed it to this. So
when you around music most of your life, I mean
you joked about it being traveling was our education. Music
was our education. That is a thousand percent true. And
I didn't grow up I grew up playing a little

bit of drums, but I didn't grow up writing, you know,
working on chords or working on songwriting until I was
about nineteen.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Okay, so you did you do you graduate? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, quote un quote, we graduated high school.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
So you have your high school great diploma you both do. Yeah,
did you finish like a year before? Is it like
standard school. Here's a funny story for you.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
When I when I got my diploma sent to me
in the mail, my mom my mom was.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Like, Luke, here's your high school diploma. And I was like, oh,
that's good.

Speaker 5 (42:29):
And she looked at me and said, you're the only
one in the entire family that has graduated high school
on time. Everybody else, I don't know, a year or
too late. Been a year or too late. Yeah, there's
a lot of josh Aye.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
There's a gray area with home school. I think Mom
was like, all right, Luke, you're dumb. Here's your diploma.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
So did you.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
You played basketball though?

Speaker 5 (42:54):

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, he's modest, but he was actually a baller.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
And I know this is true. You mentioned the ACL injury,
which was held you back or stopped you stop? Yeah,
but how did you play ball?

Speaker 5 (43:07):
If so, here's so you know, if we want to
go there, we can. It's a podcast.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
We can do this. So I started.

Speaker 5 (43:12):
I didn't stop playing basketball until my freshman year of
high school. It was the first time I'd ever played
basketball in the league, and I did well, Like I
got Player of the Year that year. The Greater Yeah,
I was pretty taking.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Were you athletic? Yeah? Tall?

Speaker 5 (43:25):
So I grew up playing sports, but because we were
traveling all the time, I didn't get to play in
the leagues and all the types of things. So anyway,
I my sophomore year, I tried to balance traveling with
my sister and playing basketball, and because of that, I'd
misspractices obviously, and so the coaches are like, we can't
stop you if you're literally here, like two thirds of
the time, you're either here or.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Not, so I started coming off the bench and I
didn't have a great year.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
You know, you start to realize, like sports, you have
to really dedicate your life to it. So anyway, I
finished that year, don't have as good of a year,
and I kind of went to Mom and Dad. I
was like, I just wanted the last two years ofhigh school.
I want to give everything to basketball and just see
what happens. And so I go through that, I get
I get prepared for my junior year playing sports. And
the very first game my junior year of high school,

I told my a cl and so in some cases
when it comes to freak taar or fall like hard fall,
just a freakdaar, I just cut and boom and I'll
never forget.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
They called the time out.

Speaker 5 (44:23):
I came out and the coach looked at me and
he's like, so you're good now, right, And I was
like yeah, because I didn't know what was going on.
And I get back in and this guy just came
driving down the lane. I went to defend him and
my leg just went and I was like, I'm done.
But it just gum, this is this jello feeling. It
is a terrible feeling. Got on the bench and he's like,
he said, what's going on? I said I And I
looked at him and I was like, I think I'm

really hurt, and he gave me the weird I'll just
never forget that look in his eyes. His eyes were
huge and he walked back and he kept coaching the
rest of the game. I called my mom and I said, hey, Mama,
and that was when it hit me.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
It's when I called mom, So do you repair it?
And does it? Yeah? So you go, yeah, you have
surgery a year later.

Speaker 5 (45:04):
Yeah, I went and played a year later, but I
knew it was like, man, it's literally, I mean, it's
what you realize with.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
These professional athletes.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
It's it's amazing when they come back and really contribute
a year later, like if the there are those stories
out there, because it's a very it's kind of like
relearning how to do everything. I mean even I went
through all the practices, never thought of my knee, and
in the first game I played my senior year, all
of a sudden, I was super aware of my knee.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Like I don't want to jump in confidence. I don't
I don't want evidence. Yeah, just messes with you.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
So these professional athletes that come back and really are
good a year after turning their aco. You know, my
hat's off. It's it's it takes a bit.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
So you're seventeen or eighteen and Joel you're a couple
of years. How much old are you there?

Speaker 3 (45:45):
Two and half years?

Speaker 1 (45:46):
So if you're twenty, what are you doing when he's
doing this.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
I had had an Australian one of the dad's actually
old Australian mates when I was about sixteen. It's like
he said to Dad. I remember we were on an
RV because we rented these RVs for Rebecca on the
road instead of two buses that were cheaper, and he said, hey, David,
you should your son should do music, and and it
was I don't know, Dad, it was a middle child.

I don't know what it was, but it was never
really a consideration for him. So from about sixteen on
what I started writing and just sort of exploring music,
and periodically between sixteen and twenty one, Dad had come
and said, hey, I think you know, you should, you know,
you should do music with you your little brother.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
And I was like, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
I don't want to mess with that. Yeah, he can
play drums, because he's a good drummer, and he was like, no,
I think you should try writing with him. So, almost
to sort of shut dad up, I was like, all right,
and Luke at twenty's ACL so I felt really sorry
for him.

Speaker 5 (46:41):
Of course, that maybe an elaboration story, but the than
I think your.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Dad wanted you to to actually do music because he
saw something that could be completed, or do you think
he wanted you to to do something together because you
were brothers and you both were kind of just finding
try I think.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
I actually think I think he actually saw something. I
think he knew there was a there was a First
of all, Dad's a smart cookie, so he looked at
the marketplace and at that point there were no duos.
Duos so he's like, oh h Jewo's Jesus. So he's like, uh,
you know, this is a good idea of marketing wise,
but he's like, there's something actually between you guys, personality

wise and voices that sort of blends.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby cast.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
So personality wise, on stage, are you do you have
the same dynamic? Are you A? And are you? And
I mean this like type A because my comedy partner.
We do music, Eddie. He's such a type be and
it's awesome. It fits me perfectly because he there has
never been a more stable, straight guy and it makes me.

He makes me funnier because he's freaking so and everybody's like,
Bobby so good funny. But it's like it was ready,
I want to be able to knock you.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
That is your baseline. Just but he's so like your foundation.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Is that dynamic with you two the same as it
was as brothers? Are you the foundation? Are you since
you're the older? How does that work? On stage? On
stage is a little bit different, right because and is
it different than the creative?

Speaker 3 (48:20):
He does some really flamboyant moves on stage that I'm like, man,
I'm flamboyant, but I don't even think I could do that.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
I mean, you know what's funny? Yeah, so anyway off stage,
off stage absolutely, because I haven't been to a show.
Yeah I can't. Four tickets I did, Okay, you.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Know it's a bit bombastic on stage, but off stage,
which is sort of the bit that probably counts the most.
It's so like there's the there's the yin and the yang,
you know, like I'm out, He's okay with me taking
the lead at points, and and and it's really it's
actually music which we didn't get on when we were teenagers.

It's like he got taller than me. It's a bit
of sportsman. All the things that shouldn't happen for a
younger sibling happened like with him, and so I resented
him for him better singer, you know. And it was
actually music that kind of brought us back together, but man,
I gave him a hard time.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Was there a moment musically though, where you guys went,
oh wow, okay, maybe like whether you can think back
and maybe not an exact moment there a song that
you wrote or a you know. We had Dallas Smith then,
who's a Canadian singer songwriter, and he never sang. And
he practiced once with like his two boys, and he
then he went it was in default. They were this
massive rock they had a massive pop song, and he

was like, I don't even know what else to do,
Like I just went and sang. And I was like,
oh gosh, I'm pretty it.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Was a slope then it was I think it was
The Jay Leno Show twenty thirteen January tenth, twenty thirteen.
We was our first late night show.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Wait, I'm talking about before, I'm talking about just as brother. Yeah,
I don't. I just think it was a slog man.

Speaker 5 (49:55):
If people were to do like this and they had
the footage, because they don't, But if they were to
do like a documentary of the six years of Joel
and I developing, it wouldn't be very interesting because it.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Was all the it's just the grind.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
It was never so natural.

Speaker 5 (50:09):
But what's funny is, you know, what do they say?
You know, you practice really hard, so it looks effortless.
You know, in some cases it's all the songwriting sessions
where he pissed me off and I pissed it. You know,
like all of those things are the things that shape
you together and and and you know your humor has.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Developed, the moment actually comes, you're actually something. You're fortified,
you fortied, and I think we didn't have a story.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
But we don't.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
We don't have a Yeah, we don't have like a
It was this moment. I've always said that King Country
has just always kind of been like this.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
It's just we've always had.

Speaker 5 (50:42):
Just enough to keep going, and it just keeps getting
a little bit better. And I think even like probably
how we work together because we are in some.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Cases an unlikely likely pair.

Speaker 5 (50:50):
And what I mean by that is you're unlikely because
of how different the personalities are, but you're likely because
you are so different. And that actually, if you have
two people vying for the same spot, it'll never work.
I mean, if there was two Bobbies, you guys would
kill each other. And so it's you have to have
some of that. And I don't think we probably realized
it until those those years. It was kind of like

now I can appreciate it because when I get up
on stage, I can I can sit there and I go, man,
we we we work well together.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Like this this works.

Speaker 5 (51:20):
But when you're when it's undefined and nobody you know,
you've you've you've not signed a record deal and you
don't have a publishing deal. You don't have these things
where other people are coming and saying I recognize something
inside of you. In some cases you're just wandering in
the dark.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Well, and then you layer on the Rebecca component like
you're always in that shadow, like that's just it's cute.
They're just Rebecca and James little brothers. Look at you.
You still you're still doing that little duo thing. N.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, that's tough. And I guess I knew you before
I knew her, right because she won a Grammy.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
We kept pretty we kept it pretty underwrapped so initially
because we.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
We ah, is that a thing like you just didn't
talk about it about it ever. And I guess that's
why I'm not even I never even thought about not
approaching it because I just knew you guys first, because
I had I saw a Carmen in concert, I saw
you know, I had my stage of when I But
I mean, you guys are so good. I think you could.

I think sometimes you know, I'm gonna just pivot and
get back to it. I think sometimes you guys get
unfairly pigeonholed in a way that limits your growth because
some people maybe think there are there ares we don't
want them to beat other in more mainstream areas. I
don't know if that's a fair because you're Christians, you're

Christian artists. But I think what you guys do and
how you do it is is I don't want to
say bigger, but I think it could reach more people
even that weren't looking for a specific message, but more
of a generalized musical positive message. Like when I watch
you guys videos, I go and the guys are good.
I mean, that's it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter

that you're Christian artist, doesn't matter that you're metal artists,
is that you're not metal artists. But there's just something
about good music that transcends. And you guys have that,
and and country music does it too, where they go,
we're locking this down. It's ours and anything else, and
they don't need to be trying to go outside of
country music and that you don't need to be coming

over here and getting It's always controversial when someone does it,
and I feel like, and I hope that doesn't happen
to you guys where but you are so good and
I'm like.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Man, man, we try not to pay attention. I think
so because because it goes both ways. It's like you
have the grammar red compet and you're like, hi everyone,
we're here, and you want your publishers walk up, you know,
and then the flip side, maybe maybe not, but but
of people sort of wanted to claim you, which we

all do that, like this is my person.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
We're tribal for tribal but country music is the same way,
and I say that speaking from the same spot or
country music does it to its artists too. I do
you guys feel that that at all has happened where
there's a certain select group that's like, we don't want
to see you guys go outside because we're so proud
of you. We don't want anybody else to heck you
are your are nights.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
You know, it's funny, you know that there's I understand
the perspective that that comes from, right And you've said
very nice, encouraging things, and I thank you for that.
I would say one of the things somebody said to
me years ago that I've kind of taken to hot
and that is, you know, there's there's two genres of music.
There's good music and there's bad music. And at the

end of the day, there are some boundary mackers and
and there are occasionally some walls, but you're still allowed
to write great music. And you never know in some
cases when you start to think of things as I'm
just boxed in, I just have to write these songs.
The magic of and the brilliance of songwriting and the

power of a song. It's is destroyed, it's it's it's
a been blown up. But the truth is, man, it
is not to say that, you know, if if it
as Christians, right, we should be making the greatest art
in the history of the world. If we're in touch
with the creator of the world. I mean, this is
a good thing, right, This is an amazing thing. And

so in some cases when we say, well, you're actually
good at what you do and these other guys aren't,
it's like, man, well, what if we are all to
raise our game.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
What if we're all to do a little bit better?

Speaker 5 (55:26):
You know what if we're we are to write a
song that we call it crossover or whatever. I'm never
gonna leave these group of people over here, and who knows,
maybe there's a chance I can go see these people
over here. But the moment that I try to feel
like I'm actually boxed in with the way that I
construct my life or my songs on my writing, I
feel like they actually won, you know, the other people

actually won.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Where my goal is man to write inspired music from
the heart.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
That's always It's always been what it is, and who
knows the magic of music can take it all around
the world.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
And I agree with you instead, it completely sugg just
when you get a word attached to you like they're
a Christian artists, you are Christian artists. You're artists, You're
a Christian, you're a Christian. But but some people just
won't even give you a shot because and I guess
at that point you say, well, I guess I gotta
be and I guess, And that's frustrating to me for you.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
But but you know what, Bobby, there, this is where
you're powerful. Like it's really meaningful to both we followed
you for a time and moving fans. You know, there
have been people like yourself that are confident enough in
their own skin and bold enough. Dolly put was one

of them as well. So I don't care. This is
good and and for folks, for a pair of us
who are trying to, I think, break stereotypes and and
break boundaries and and come into wider conversations, because I
think that's the beauty of music, is this free thing
that we all get to be a part of, and

it can meet us on any religious or irreligious level.
And you know, it's the universal language that there's people
like you that actually raise the flag and go I'm
in like, sign me up for that. And I hope
our story has not been completed yet as musicians, I
hope that that storyline continues, that people start keep breaking

down the walls.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
What do you usion like best about each other now
as adults?

Speaker 3 (57:49):
That's a good question, that's a great question.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
Yeah, you know, I'm not jealous of Joel and I
can see who he is as a younger brother. I'm
actually proud, you know, I'm not competing with him, and
I love that and I and that's not necessarily saying
about him. But to my point, I can say that
Joel's a better leader than me. We have different leadership styles.

I can still lead, but he has a God given
ability of Like he gets into.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
A room, people want to follow him. Well, why am
I going to compete with compete with that? Can?

Speaker 5 (58:22):
Can I offer him a tremendous amount of support in
life in my role? Of course I can't, but it's
one of that he's got. He's got drive that I
don't have, you know, and I and I love to
celebrate that in him. I don't want to compete with that.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
It's like, no, I don't need to sit there and say, oh,
I'm all, don't forget about me. No, man, I'm I'm
proud of him.

Speaker 5 (58:41):
I'm proud of him as a brother, proud of him
as a leader, and I'm proud of what we've been
able to, you know, some of these things that we're
able to do and and if it wasn't for him,
many of which we would not be doing.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Joel adult version. What do he love about him?

Speaker 3 (58:55):
I'm well, I love that he put up with me
es Su a long time. You know, I think you
and I have probably taken snapshots of our younger selves
and just sort of politely and kindly and lovingly sort
of shaken our heads at our younger selves. And man,
I put him through the ringer in those early days
because he hadn't written a song. He was as green
as the grass on a lush spring day playing and

so I sort of loaded that over him for a
long period of time. It actually was when he got
really ill early in our public career that it really
kind of reset a lot, and even down to the
last year there was another reset. But I'm so I'm
proud of him. For just staying in it, and I'm
proud of him for digging in. I think part of
what Luke's type of personality, the peacemaker can just be

like if I don't if I don't exert myself, then
I never quite fail. But if I don't exert myself,
then you never quite We're neither. And he's really he's
dug in deep on not only our relationship, he's dug
in deep on music. And then I'm really, I'm really,
I'm not a dad yet. He's a father of four.
Proud of him as a dad, like I'm proud of
proud of the way he loves his wife. But he's

just a good he's just a good dad. Like he
brings his brings, my god children and his kids around
a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Yeah, what's the hardest thing about working with your brother
all the time? You kind of know each other's tricks.

Speaker 5 (01:00:23):
You know, he knows when I'm you know, feeling one
way or you know, in some cases going back off
what he said.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
I'm a good pitch man, but I'm a crap pitch
man with he knows renegotiate, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:38):
The tricks you can't you can't, you know, he knows,
you know. Even there's been times where there's been sensitive
decisions that have to be made and I'm kind of
dancing around some things and he goes, you know, tell
me what it really is, you know, because I know
you don't want to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Because of X, Y Z. And sometimes they're difficult things
to then discuss, but it must be discussed.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
It's those types.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Of things where you you know, you know each other
so very well.

Speaker 5 (01:01:03):
It's like playing It would be like playing yourself in
a sports match.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
You know what you're going to try and do to
the other.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
Person, right, and you've just got to and but I
think it's probably good, you know. That's one of the
things I actually like about working with family is like
at the end of the day with friends at times.
And obviously work well with friends, but if they if
you make them mad enough, they're just like peace.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
With family.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
You've still got to do Thanksgiving together, you've still got
to do Christmas, and you've got to so in some
cases you're forced to reconcile.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
I don't think that's a bad discipline. Mm hm, that's interesting.
Do you feel like love is a discipline?

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
Well, you could get you're always given the choice of
loving and hating. You know, so in some cases, you
know you have the discipline of love. Is I think
that's something that Isn't that humanity? Isn't that life? Isn't
that what we're trying to do with life?

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Sure, I asked, I mean I was. I've been estranged
from different before my mom died, and she had a
lot of issues and we got to the point with
her addiction that he got to the point where we
got a strange for a while. My sister for a
while until she got she's completely clean now. But I
always dealt with is this a choice?

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Do I get to?

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Am I a giving? I don't know. It's just good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
It's a good question, I think with that specific ingredients.
You know, It's funny. I talked it back on the
plane about yesterday. There's a lot of these really cool
like biblical parables. It's just stories basically, but the parable
the prodigal son, it's like we always focus on the
kid and like, this's a bit of an idiot, but

the dad, Like the dad not only did he give
him all the stuff, but the dad waited, like he
didn't go and enable him. He didn't go. He might
have died in the pig pen. But he didn't go
to the foreign land. He didn't go get in the
pig He literally actively waited for his son to return.
So I think man loves all of it, loves an action,
loves waiting, loves a boundary point, you know. But it's

it's but. But I think the where we get tangled up,
at least where I've gotten tangled up, is like love.
Parts of love can be a feeling, but it is
in my experience it is.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
I think it's your example, man, Addiction is a tough
one to navigate when it comes to you. Am I
hurting or am I helping right now? But if your
accountenance of when given the opportunity, do you forgive?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
That's love.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
Doesn't mean this, don't mean it's all gonna be perfect.
But let's say something changes. Are you Are you going
to be there?

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
I forgive?

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):

Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
Is there any greater love than forgiveness When you've been
actively wronged and you're going to give that person the
opportunity to forgive them.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
That's a big one. I feel like you guys have
to be nice to everybody all the time because you're
quote unquote Christian artists that will be hard.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Yeah, I don't mind.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
It's an unfair I think it's and I try to
be nice to everybody all the time anyway, but still
I can. And I'll give you an example of when
I'm in a room, I feel like I'm a wall.
I'm so introverted until I'm extroverted. I'm not an extrovert
in any way whatsoever until it's time to perform. And
that's where it sounds. It's all of it, right. And
so if I'm somewhere, just like in line at Chipotle,

I don't I keep my head down. I don't want
to bother anybody. But somebody like, hey, we saw bibles Chipotle.
He talked to a single person. What a jerk? Now,
But I don't have And that's just me being.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Well, you're not you're not representing this this.

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
Right to make this a spiritual analogy just for a
second like he did. I always found it funny when
it would talk about all the stories of Jesus, when
he would go and heal all these people, right, that
means that he passed by thousands upon thousands of people,
never heal them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
He wasn't nice. Historically, he would have based on the
locations he was in, he would have just possed so.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
And the other thing is is how many times did
he say and he went away to be alone by himself,
actively saying no to the people that are like chasing him.
So we should do the same at times. We can't
be all things to all people's that's that's you know.
But my goal is to be generous. My goal is
to be to be kind, you know, the best of
our ability. I think that's the way we meant to live.

But there are times when I go to Chipotle and
I kind of keep my head down and I go
and order my food and I'm with my kids, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Just feel like it's a pressure that you guys don't
deserve because of And I've kept you beyond time. But
we did a lot of the data stuff before you
guys came in. We know you're wildly famous, you got
all the number one singles, you got all the shows,
and you know, I just wanted to use this time
that we had together so people get to know so
good man, the folks. I mean, that's what it is.

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
I think the best interviews you talked about it before.
The best interviews is when you don't have to listen
to the notes where you don't have to lie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Yeah, I mean I have all the I didn't really
even go to it because I'm just interested in perspective mostly,
and as we own with yours.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
And I will say this just probably as far as
perspective like you, I think it's because you're so ranged
in the people that the genres and the people that
you sort of touch on, and as far as interviewing
and and and doing life with and holding up. It's
a very unique perspective that you have, and it's an
important one because you're actually you're a bridge builder, I think,

in between different people. And and this is this is
like the last frontier of a format that we can
actually sit round and really digest some of this stuff.
Like not give you a bit of candy to get
your sugar levels up, but like let's digest these these ideas.
We feel very very seen. So thank you, well, let's

do this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Whenever you guys do announce your movie and do announce
the project come back. I could do another hour, but
honestly got my trainers out in the front yard ready
for me right now with Eddie.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Probably it is out there taking your time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Waiting on me. At this point.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
We're doing squats right now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Man, maybe you're just getting out of it. Man, this
is good. There's no getting out of it, no getting
out of it. But I I just I enjoy you guys.
I know women, I've been watching you guys the same way,
mostly just because your signs will pop up all over
when I'm driving to work and I'm like, those guys
are both better looking at me, and I would be jealous,
and then I would listen to the music and go,
I'm inspired, and probably not for the same reasons they

think everybody else is inspired, the same reason that they're
being told. I just listen and am motivated by the music,
and then I would see clips and you guys, you're
just really good. And in the end, it's the most
simple thing I could say, is that what you guys do,
the elementary version, is you just really good at it.
And what it is isn't really able to be defined

because do you sound good? Sure, do you have a
good but do you see your instrument lives? Yeah? Yeah,
but everybody does. But also it's just good all the
elements people can do really well individually, but there's just
something about you guys. Man, I don't know, and if
I could define it, I would and you can't. But
it's there and you don't need my little pep talk here.

But I'm just I'm a believer and so keep it up.
You're killing it. I love to see it. I'm proud
of you guys. Thanks man, And that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
Mike, don't don't edit that last bit out of the.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
We're gonna beat it all, just like I'm gonna take that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
And I'm gonna like just play that just anytime I
have a depression night. I'm in the barthleto there's his
clothes off.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
There are a few artists that actually moved me. I'm jaded.
I'll end with this. I'm Jada. We all get a
bit Jada because we're around the best of the best
all the time. We're to town. We're the giants, a
land of giants. Everybody's good here. I'm moved by you guys,
and I don't and it's it could be one of
many things, but I love it. Thank you for spending
over an hour with me, and we talked about it.
But you guys go check it out. The twenty twenty

three Spring Tour what we're waiting for starts March ninth,
all the way to the end of May for King
and Country dot com. And I'm gonna go work out.
You guys are gonna go. Best of luck to you.
Sit in the bathtub and your son left. He was
in and Mike told him about the pool. He's probably
like the pool. Mike lives here. Mike lovely, good to

see you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.

Speaker 5 (01:09:10):
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