Ashley Wahler on The Hills, Addiction Recovery, & Shooting Her Shot with Keith Urban

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good cast up thing, little food for yourself.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh it's pretty, but hey it's pretty beautiful thing beautiful.
That's a little mousing.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
City. Your kick in with four with Amy Brown, Happy Thursday,
four things. Amy here, and I've got Ashley Waller as
my guest. And Ashley and I met through well hair, Yeah,
because you're a hair colorist? What is that what you
call it?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Because it's so funny because at the salon, I'm a
hair colorist, but then on set all style and I
only really cut my kid's hair and one other person
that's it.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
But at the salon, yes, colorist only through and through.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
And so on set that means working like on the
set of a music video or I mean it's Nashville.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
And then speaking of being on set, you know what
I was doing the other day to just prepare, I
was watching some old episodes of The Hills.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
We're oh my gosh. You know it's on Paramount Plus now.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Well yeah, yeah, I had to like go, yeah, I
think that's how I got there to watch it. The
Hill's New Beginnings.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yes, I just feel about that.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
I thought it was awesome, especially because I watched Hills
back in the day, but I didn't watch the New Beginnings,
and then I thought, oh, I didn't realize how yeah,
you and Jason were part of that, and that was
where y'all started to share the journey of Jason's recovery. Yes,
because Jason Waller, who was on the original Hills way
back when.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Was looking at a beach like, oh yeah, two thousand
and six, and then he went from Luna Beach, was
with Lauren Conrad for a really long time and then
they went to the Hills and so then he was
on the Hills for like years.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
And so whenever he was like doing all of that,
I guess they've openly discussed how a lot of it
was sort of fake. But like when you meet him,
did you watch the Hills, They're like you meeting him
as like, oh, I feel like I kind of know
you're from the Hills. But then when you're like, well,
who knows if any of that's even kind of real?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
It's so weird because he describes it differently. Because I
think when Kristen and Hidie and all of them were
talking about the Hills later on in the seasons, I
think things had to be a little bit more soft
scripted so that there would be, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
A scene set.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Not necessarily that things were meant to happen, but I
think because it was doing so well, they wanted to
make sure that the show continued to do well. So
even having little text messages of what to talk about
instead of it just being run on film and dialogue,
they wanted to make sure they got the shots that
they needed and then continued to move on. But as
far as Jason describes, like he always says that a
lot of the things that happened were legitimate. I mean,

(02:52):
he definitely dated Lauren, they were together for a long time,
like all of those things. He definitely was drinking a
lot on camera and was struggling a lot with the
day during that time. But those moments. It's so funny
because we went back and watched Luna Beach together on
Netflix when it came out. We started watching it last
year and we were crying, laughing the whole time because
I'm like, God, you're such a dick, you know, well.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
A teenager, Like, Okay, thank goodness, you've changed a lot,
I assume at the.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Time, And could you imagine being filmed at that age. No,
It's why I wasn't.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
I mean, thank goodness, Like there was no social media
when I was that age, Like there's no documentation other
than disposable cameras. Yeah, so you know, we were going
to Walgreens and getting them developed and then we were like, well,
trash that trash that exactly that.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
You didn't have to live with that. So it's so
interesting to kind of look back. But yeah, as far
as like scripted, he never really felt like things were
scripted necessarily, So it's it's interesting. I think everybody has
a different perspective depending on how they were perceived on
the show.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
So going back to the Hill's new beginnings, did y'all
decide that as a couple, like, hey, we're going to
go back and do this, and this will be a
good opportunity to talk about Jason's recovery, which you're heavily
involved in, and even at this point now other people's
recovery and really caring about people getting well the care

(04:16):
that they need.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yes, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
So it was really interesting because when we were asked
to do the show, it was a very hesitant situation.
I think also a little bit ptsc for my husband
because it's like, does he really want to get back involved.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
He knows how intense this environment.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Can be being back in the entertainment industry and kind
of the cycle that it led him down. But then
he realized, you know, this could be a really big
opportunity after talking to a lot of his mentors, to
shed light about addiction and really portray who he truly is,
because I do think addiction crumbles you and portrays you
as something that you're really not. It's the disease that
shows you in a totally different light. So for him

(04:55):
to actually show who he truly was as a human
and the man that I told really fell in love with,
I think he was really excited to show people what
his life is like.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Now let's rewind a little bit and talk about how
did you meet Jason and when did you know that
he was someone you want to spend the rest of
your life with as this incredible man.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Okay, So it's funny.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
We met at a club Los Palmas in LA and
I remember I was with my girlfriend and she had
recognized him from the show. And this was back I
was twenty maybe twenty one, and where are you from?

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Was twenty one?

Speaker 2 (05:29):
We all lived in La so she was born and raised.
I was born and raised in California. Okay, Yeah, So
he was out and he was just finishing up the
Hills and I think he was going to go on
to celebrity rehab eventually after that. So he was done
doing the Hills and my girlfriend was like, oh, that's
Jason from the Hills. Let's go like hang out at
his table and drink free alcohol, you know. So I

(05:49):
was like, okay, in our cute little mini dresses because
back then we would dress up for the club. You know,
everyone wears like sneakers and stuff. Now at the club
it's so different.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
But we actually, I don't know, no, tell me more
because I don't go to the club now.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Back I don't know, twenty years ago, when we'd go
to the club, you would get like dressed up like
cocktail attire, high heels, tiny dresses, the bandage skirts. Like
back in the early two thousands there were these like
bandage skirts and neon.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
You were like a little tank. It was all big deal.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
So you go out and I remember we were hanging
out with him at his table and we had connected
then and that was the first time it wasn't like
we didn't have a connection. I just think it was
like a club environment. And then we totally lost track
of each other for about a year after we'd hung
out that one night, and I worked at a place
called Geisha House, and then he started coming into Geisha.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
House with a water bottle.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
I had noticed because some of his friends had owned
part of Geisha House.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
And what is Geisha House? Okay, so Geisha House was
like a hit restaurant.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
So you know how you guys have Broadway, Well, we
had Hollywood Boulevard and there was a restaurant on the
corner on Hollywood Boulevard called Geisha House, and Ashton Kutcher
and the people that only do and stuff, the Dual
Chi group, I guess you call it.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
They owned Geisha House.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
And one of my girlfriends had said, did you hear
that Jason Waller is getting sober? He's going to go
on celebrity rehab? And I said, yeah, right, there's no
way that guy's getting sober. Like we just parted with
him a month ago, and we ended up reconnecting. Cut
to almost a year later, he was living with one
of my friends in Orange County's boyfriend, and we had

(07:23):
reached out and reconnected through social media. It was Facebook
at the time because there wasn't really Instagram when I
had met him, and he kept asking me to go
on a date, and I was I was going to
fit him at the time and graduating college and I
just didn't really have the time.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
And then we finally reconnected.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
When on our first date, real date, and he had
explained to me that he was sober almost a year
and his sobriety meant everything to him, and without his sobriety,
he was nothing, and that was the most important thing
to him. So he kind of like laid it all
out on the first date and we ended up going
out on a group haying because at this time, this time,
it's so funny because he was so it's so different

(07:56):
because celebrities then, paparazzi every thing else. It was such
a big thing because you didn't have the inside look
at people's lives. We didn't have Instagram then, you know.
So his whole thing was, you know, he had a
lot of people that really liked him because of the Hills,
and girls that he would think would just date him
for who he was, and so he wanted to make

(08:18):
sure that in case I was weird, or a creeper,
that he could leave me with some of his friends
and then he wouldn't feel so bad if he had
to go and be like, sorry, I got a dodge,
you know. But we ended up leaving all the friends
and we laughed the whole entire night, and I just knew,
like in that moment, there was a sense of feeling
like one I had known of my whole life, not

(08:39):
because he was on a television show, but there was
a sense of like home when I had met him
that I had never felt before with anybody in my life.
And I just felt like that was it. We had
just been together NonStop ever since that one date, and
we got engaged within a year and a half, got
married eleven months later, and you know, we've been together

(08:59):
fourteen years this year.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
I've been married in eleven years.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Gosh, okay, yeah, so that's yeah, quite the journey. Meeting
him well at a club, drinking with him, and then
seeing him sober, h like, well you don't really know,
but he's drinking water and you're like, what's up? And
so I didn't realize he went on celebrity rehab.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Oh yeah, with Doctor Drew. That's why him and Drew
are so close.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Okay, does he work with is it amen?

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Doctor Amen?

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Doctor Amen? Okay, I see. Speaking of Instagram, I just
follow him and I don't I guess you just see
the account. I don't really hear people say his name. Yes,
so doctor Amen, and some of his stuff is really fascinating, amazing,
just that's the brain, and he's.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Like the most fascinating human and he's like ten years
in front of what medicine's doing.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
I feel like he's really changing.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
The trajectory about how we look at mental health. He
likes to talk about it as brain health, because when
you have a heart attack or any cardiovascular incident, you
go to a cardiologist. When you have a broken ankle,
you go to an orthopedist. Like there's certain doctors that
you see for certain thing with mental health, they just
kind of put you on medication without looking at the

(10:04):
organ itself. And so I think that that's really changing
the way that people are understanding mental health is instead
of being like, oh, I have a mental health disorder,
it's like, hey, let's just take care of our brains.
Like our brains are blood that is flowing through our head,
and it's so important that we're getting the right and
proper blood flow to make sure that we don't get
Alzheimer's in ten years, you know what I mean, Or
that we don't get early dementia, and what does that

(10:24):
look like?

Speaker 1 (10:25):
So it's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
You know, he's a good follow if people aren't following
him already. Yeah, And I think sometimes it is hard
for people to get what he's saying or it might
seem a little bit off because, like you said, he's
ahead of it, so it seems like, wait, what what
is it.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
We're talking about right now?

Speaker 3 (10:41):
For you and being the partner of somebody that's in recovery,
what does that look like for anybody that could potentially
be in your shoes at some point or maybe is,
and they're trying to figure out the best way to
navigate it and be the best type of support that
they can be.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
I think it's really interesting because when I first met
Jason for ten years ago, addiction was not something that
was talked about. It was a very like stigma oriented,
shameful thing in a sense, very judgmental. I feel like
now sober curious or anything like that, that's become more
of a I would say trend or people that are
talking about being sober. With all these non alcoholic brands

(11:18):
and everything else, it's less of a stigma than it
used to be so back then. Growing up, I grew
up in an Italian family, so alcohol for me was
always around my environment, and I thought alcoholism was a choice, like, well,
you just have bad choices, you don't know your limit.
That's an immaturity thing, rather than it being a disease thing,
which now, of course one hundred percent it's a disease.

(11:40):
But when I first was dating Jason and being with him,
he was sober, so I knew him for the first
couple of years of our marriage as this like wonderful human.
I didn't understand addiction at all until it completely robbed
us of everything and I realized, I'm like way in
over my head.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
I don't have a support group.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
I am so codependent in a way where addicts when
they're in the disease, it's a very manipulative, destructive environment
where you love this person, Like for me, I loved
my husband so much, but I had no tools to
help him with what he was going through because I
had no education about alcoholism. So until I really started

(12:21):
going to meetings which I went to Alan On meetings
for a long time, and understanding what addiction is as
a disease, then I finally was able to viewhere my
feed are and have a backbone and understand who I
was and what I was dealing with because I think
a lot of times people say like, oh, you know,

(12:42):
how do I fix my husband? And it's like, it's
not about that, it's how do I fix myself? So
I can see addiction in a different light, like how
do I change my behaviors to help support the addict
in for what they need? Because there's three things that
we know we can't cure an addict, We can't change
an addict, and we didn't the addiction. So in that sense,

(13:02):
what are things that we can do for ourselves to
look at? And I'll give an example because people are
probably like, well, what are you even talking about?

Speaker 1 (13:08):
I feel that way, but I don't know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, for instance, I was enabling my husband when he
was in his depths of his disease because when he
was sick, laying in bed and I didn't know if
he was going to honestly live for the next day,
I would text his boss and tell.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
His boss he was sick, he has the flu. He
can't come in today.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
And that was me enabling him when he should have
gotten fired. But I was so terrified that if I
told anybody about his addiction then we would lose everything.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
But we lost everything.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
I mean, in the time that he had his addiction,
we ended up having to sell our home because, you know,
with my husband's addiction and included gambling, addiction, addiction to
adderall which led to you know, he was originally addicted
to addicted to cocaine and alcohol, but it all encompassed
this like dark secret and my husband he was not

(13:57):
the kind of person that was out at a club partying.
He would the kind of guy that when he was
using and drinking, it was because he hated himself so
much that he wanted to die. And that's what I
think people don't realize is that it's a very isolating,
lonely place when someone's in the depths of their disease,
and when you're seeing somebody like that from the outside,
you feel so helpless that you can get into their

(14:19):
dark cloud themselves. You know, I lost who I was.
I didn't know what color I liked. I just felt
so depressed and soulless because I was living with somebody
in the depths of their disease and I didn't have
any tools to help me through it.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
You know you mentioned earlier of like someone I'd be like, well,
how do I fix my husband? And some of that,
I'm sure before you got the tools like through alan On,
which is for the families like you hear of AA
all the time for the attics, and then alan On
is for the families and loved ones, friends that are
close anybody that's close to an attict that might need
support in tools. But that fixing thing that stands out

(14:58):
to me because that's literally the codependent behavior because there's
not anything you can do. And maybe you don't have
an addict in your life, or maybe it's not something,
but you're trying to control any situation. Anytime you're doing that,
that's codevendent behavior and it's not a fun way to live.
And it's almost like once the veil is lifted and
you see that and you're like, oh, okay, ah, it
is freeing to just let go. It's hard because not

(15:20):
texting his boss and him having to suffer the consequences
of his actions. That's hard for you because you love him,
but yeah, it's like not your place to control the
situation and text the boss.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
No. I also think I was so I was so
young when my husband and I first were dating and together,
and I loved him so much, and I loved him
to be like the man of the household in a sense,
and I liked being that role of wife. So I
always really looked up to him. And during this time
when my husband had relapsed, I mean it was like

(15:52):
three or four years, like we first had had to
sell our home because my husband had had a gambling
addiction and so we had kind of lost the house
that we had built together in our marriage, so that
was falling apart. And then, you know, I felt like
there were so many promises because my husband was severely
in his depths of his addiction, that it was like,
if we sell the house, I'll get sober. So of
course I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, if we sell

(16:12):
the house, he'll get sober. That's like the positive out
of the negative that was really happening. The reality was
there that things were crumbling, but it was like, oh, well,
the manipulation was there, So we ended up moving to
another house, and then I thought, well, if I get pregnant,
maybe he'll get sober for the baby. And that did
not happen, you know, I mean, he was so sick.

(16:33):
And I didn't really tell anybody even at that time
that my husband was struggling with addiction, because he was
so good. He was the best addict I know. He
was working with doctors that had no idea. He knew
how to take the right amount of add or all
and drink the right amount just so that he could
be like even keel and then he'd come home and
then everything would kind of unravel behind the scenes. But

(16:54):
that was so crazy about addiction. It's like some people
can be living through their addiction throughout the day. Some
people that know them would never even know that they're
really struggling.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
As the partner that was seeing the version of him
at home that was unraveling, did you feel like if
you were to say something to other loved ones in
your life, or maybe his family or his best friends
or something. I mean, I guess since they already knew
he was in recovery, I suppose they would believe you.
But I would imagine for some people that are seeing
the version at home. If nobody else is aware of

(17:25):
anybody's addiction that you're like, well, if I say something
to them and they'll be like, what are you talking about?
Because they're high functioning, they act normal, and it's like,
but I feel like, you know, I don't know. I
just bring that up as encouragement to still speak up
and say something to loved ones and don't feel like
this fear that nobody's going to believe you, because the
truth is they may not. But it's better to say

(17:47):
something and try to give yourself the support you need
than to just live in sort of.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Well.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
I think remembering too, that a lot of people surrounding
addiction are unhealthy, Like we don't realize that until we
get healthy ourselves, and we're like, oh no, wonder why
they don't believe me, because they're just as good abended.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
As I am, you know, in one big denial exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
So I think that that was a lot of it too.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
I also think I really didn't know about addiction, so
I just thought whatever he's telling me is got to
be legit. He works in the field, like he's the professional.
I mean, if he tells me he's gonna do this,
or if he tells me if we sell the househo'd
do this. I just believe him, you know. But that's
why I was so sick, because I just didn't I think,
I didn't want to believe that my life was really

(18:34):
how it was. And in a sense, I was a
big victim in a lot of my situations, and I
chose to be that way because I was depressed and
I was upset at what I felt like God had
handed me and dealt with me these cards, and I
didn't think I had a choice, But I had a
choice the whole time, and a lot of in a
lot of the instances that put me in a place
where I was, I just didn't choose to realize my

(18:58):
own reality, and I didn't choose to tell somebody. I
didn't choose to go and get the help or get
the tools that I needed until it got to the
point where I was like, okay, like my husband's holding
my six month old daughter and I'm nervous he's going
to drop her because he's drinking. That was the biggest
fear for me, and that was something that motivated me, honestly,
because I don't know if you've ever heard my story

(19:19):
about how my husband was very sick and when I
had to lie like he was actually in DTOs at
the same hospital. So he was on the first floor
in detox and I was on the fourth floor in triage,
and so I had to pull him out of detox.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
And I'll never forget the guy that I called.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
I had called them when I put them in detox,
and I had said, you know, I'm having a baby
any day, and I want to make sure that my
husband is at least coherent for the birth of our
first child, like this is so important to me. And
I remember I was on the fourth floor and I
called them. I said, I'm in labor, and the guy's like,
do you think you could let him sleep a little
bit longer? He's just still like not all there, he
just needs a couple more hours of rest.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
And I was like, are you kidding me?

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Like I'm having a baby, Like no, get his ass
upstairs and he needs to be here. So in a sense,
it's it was a very devastating time. But even at
that moment, Amy, even at that moment where I'm had
my husband's in dee talks and I'm having baby on
the fourth floor. I believe my husband was gonna be okay.
He didn't arrest the disease, he didn't go to treatment,
he stabilized. He went to dtox to kind of stabilize

(20:18):
himself and get clean for that moment. But within a week,
I mean, he was already drinking again.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
And So when was the moment for you where it
was like, this is unacceptable. Because there's that moment, everything's like, okay.
You can make plenty of excuses over and over. You
can have all different kinds of stories. You can believe.
There are stories which is just total gaslighting anyway and manipulation.
But at what point was your moment of okay, this
is unacceptable.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yes, When Delilah was six months old, I remember somedays
in the middle of the night, he like kind a
night walk and I didn't really know what was going on.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
I was exhausted.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
My daughter was collicky and she didn't sleep through the
night till she was two. I remember him walking around
in the middle of the night and I thought, oh
my god, this is like unsafe. If he picks her
up and he trips, or he and she, heaven forbid,
hits her head or something I could never live with
myself for not doing something. So that was my motivation
to say, hey, I called his family, we got him

(21:10):
into treatment.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Like that was it.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
That was the moment where I just said, I got
to get him some help. This is the best thing, too,
is I knew who he was when he was sober,
and I was holding onto that for dear life, like
this human over here that's on all kinds of adderall
and alcohol is not my person. And I kept yearning
like I want my person back, like God, please give
me the human that I married back.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
And so in that moment, he went to detox.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
He went to rehab for like thirty days, and then
he came out and he had had like a slip
or two after rehab, and that's why he finally his
sobriety date was like a year or so after that
when he really got sober sober, I would say, which
was in December. So he's celebrating four years this year.
So funny because I used to be so psycho about counting,

(21:57):
and I'm like, that's not my thing, it's your thing.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
But did you go when like he got his year chip,
did you go?

Speaker 1 (22:02):
I didn't? Okay, No, I didn't, but I threw.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Him a ready I have to, but I mean people do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
I was so proud of him when he hit a year.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
It was honestly like the most incredible moment of my
life when he hit a year, and like just every
year gets better. And I'm so grateful that I stuck
it out when we've been on the other side because
I had a lot of work myself that I had
to do.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
And the Family Recovery Foundation is something that y'all have
out of this, something that comes up a lot here
as the what does this make possible? Do you know
Donald Miller, he's a local author and he's came on
the podcast once a couple of years ago. My listeners
know this, but in case anybody's new and for you,
and it stuck with me because it's so perfect. You know.

(22:43):
He said that he likes to ask himself, what does
this make possible? When facing something hard? Because it doesn't
ignore what's happening. It doesn't minimize the pain or the
suffering or whatever is going on, but it just helps you. Okay,
I'm not ignoring that, but I'm also going to look
at this, so what does this make possible? And I
feel like the work that y'all been able to do

(23:03):
the last four years and the way you've been able
to show up for other people, that's part of what
does this make possible? So I'll just ask you that question,
is what has been possible for y'all since you made
that hard decision to be like this is unacceptable. You
need to go get help. What has been possible for

(23:33):
y'all since you made that hard decision to be like
this is unacceptable, you need to go get help.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
I think like being able one to be able to
utilize the popform of the Hill's New Beginnings and share
what recovery is like, not from the addicts perspective, but
from the family member's perspective was so eye opening for
people because I feel like, here's an addict, and here's
the five people surrounding him. There are so many more
people affected by the disease of addiction and or mental

(24:01):
health then there are.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Of the addict or the person struggling.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
So being able to be a voice for those people
was so important to me and to give people hope,
you know, I want people to know like life is
truly incredible and possible when you can have the tools
and do things for yourself to be the best wife
in your marriage, to be the best mom that you
can be. But that has to be that you come first,

(24:27):
not anything else.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
And that goes with my husband.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
He has to put himself first in his recovery to
be able to be a good father and a good
husband to us.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
So yeah, would you say, now that's one of your
non negotiables, like.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Taking care of myself not negotiable?

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, like one percent, because when I don't, I continue
and I'm I'm a recovering codependent. So like, if I
fall short and I'm not doing the things to take
care of myself, immediately, I'll go into anxiety mode spiraling.
And that just is for me something that I like,
the gym is non negotiable for me. I have to

(25:02):
at least go to the gym three times a week.
It just helps me have a moment for myself. And
the fact that we've been able to back to your
thing about what can I make possible?

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Can I make it possible?

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
The Family Recovery Foundation, I mean that was something that
was so near and dear to my heart, sending my
husband to treatment and how he's been working in treatment
for so long and seeing the addicts get so much
support and so much help and the family members get nothing,
and they're left with having to pick up all these pieces.
Like when my husband went to rehab. Yes he was struggling,

(25:33):
he was detoxing, but he was getting tools to help him.
I was left at home with a brand new baby,
dealing with PTSD, dealing with trauma, dealing with all of
these emotions that I had to just sit and figure
out how to go through them and then have this
person come back home now sober and expect me to just.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Say, Okay, you're healed.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yay, what hug you know, because there's so many things
that go into it that you have to work through
and try and recover together. And that's why I do
think Family Recovery Foundation recovery.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's a family disease.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
So if I can help people and support them, then
that means everything to me. And for those of you
that don't know, the Family Recovery Foundation offers a free
zoom meetings with a licensed therapist two days a week
or family members that are affected by the disease of addiction,
and it's free to the public, so anybody can go.
This is not an alan on meeting. This is a
cross talk situation. There is no anonymity, Like you are

(26:28):
in the meeting, learning about the disease of addiction, learning
about codependency, learning about boundaries, depending on the topic of
the week, and then you can chat with a therapist
and say like, hey, this is happening at my house
and I need help, Like what should I do?

Speaker 1 (26:41):
What do you suggest for me?

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (26:43):
I think sometimes it's as simple as like being on
that call and maybe being able to ask, like, hey,
so I'm starting to draw lines on my spouse's liquor
bottle to see if there's any alcohol missing.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
And maybe you're not supposed to tell anybody that will
Oh no, I mean that's a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
It's a lot of people. And I think that, like
that sounds like very normal. Well, obviously you should do
that because you need to know. And then you can
have someone look at you point blank and say that
is codependent behavior and you don't need to be doing that.
I just feel like people hearing your story and knowing
like what you went through and that you're back home

(27:23):
and I don't know where Jason Winter rehab, but I
would imagine it's probably really a nice place.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Sure, rehab at the hospital.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Oh he's at the hospital. He was Okay, Well, so
some people go these really fancy, amazing places with beautiful
views and whatnot in amenities. Yeah, and then yeah, the
loved ones are back home holding everything together. And it
is quite frustrating because I feel like you could have
easily been like, wait, I need thirty days away. Yeah,

(27:52):
like I need forty five days away where I'm doing
nothing but getting to and it is hard. We're not
discounting that, but yeah, they're there. Has to be support
for the family members, is my point, and y'all are
offering that resource. And I think that it's a beautiful thing.
What encouragement do you have for people that, whatever the
situation is, they're sort of living life like I'm just

(28:13):
waiting for the next shoe to drop, Like everything's great
right now. And I mean, I think that they're going
to be sober this time or they're not going to relapse,
but like they can't get over waiting for the next
shoe to drop.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
I think the biggest thing is it is absolutely impossible
to struggle alone, Like you have got to find a
support group or at least a person that you can
speak in confidence to about what's going on. I think
it's really important to vocalize and seek that professional help
because being in that isolation alone and constantly thinking that

(28:47):
things are going to change without having some sort of
not necessarily outside opinion.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
But I just feel like.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's a really, really, really lonely place to be when
you are in the depths of somebody struggling with addiction.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
And I think, as soon as you can.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Tell somebody because your secrets make you so sick and
they can really hurt your life.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Did you have to do some sort of an intervention?

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Oh yeah, it's okay?

Speaker 3 (29:13):
And what did that process collect for you? Because I
know for everybody it's a little bit different. But if
anybody's new to it, like you said, you'd never dealt
with addiction before, and so because he had been there before,
maybe he worked in that space, maybe he sort of
knew who to call. But I can imagine if someone's
never been through it all, it's whatever, it's like, Wait,
who do I even ask about where to start and

(29:36):
how to start or do this whole intervention thing? Because
you just see it on TV. You see like, oh,
do I call everybody? And we gather together in the
living room. But it's it's case by case on how
it needs to be fo.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, I think everybody's situation is different. For us, it
was like the moment when the vulnerability is there and
the person is at their low. So a lot of times,
like there'll be these really big waves through addiction when
people are struggling and it's at that moment where they
hit that low where they're very vulnerable and they're like,
I don't want to do this anymore. You know, that's

(30:08):
the moment. That's the moment that.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
You're like, we got to get everybody together, we got to.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Send them off and get them to go, and that's
just it's non negotiable, and they just they go. So
for instance, when we had the interventional my husband to
send him to treatment, it was his parents. I contacted
his parents immediately because they love him, they had been
through this with him for so many years and understood
kind of what he was going through. I don't even
think they at the time really knew exactly who to call.

(30:34):
But my husband did have a sponsor from previously being sober,
and we had a lot of friends in the recovery industry.
Because my husband had clearly worked in the recovery industry
and so we called his old sponsor and so he
had helped a lot facilitate everything.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
What did the forgiveness process look like for you?

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Therapy was really important.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
My husband and I went to couple therapy for literally
every single week for a whole year. We also did
individual therapy along with our meeting, so like aa alan
on Family Recovery Foundation. But it was a really long
process because there was so much mistrust that had happened

(31:13):
during that time and a lot of resentment, and it
took me a lot of tools and actions. I think
once there was more time of him being sober, it
really helped just realize that.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Things were changing.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
You know. The action was really big for me because
the words really didn't matter at this point, and that's
what made it really challenging. So once I saw that
time was passing and the actions of his I would say,
emotional maturity was changing, That's when I was like, Okay,
this is helping me so much. Just have forgiveness and
just I think any sort of therapy is so beneficial

(31:48):
in life no matter what, because it helps so much.
But couple's therapy together too was really important for us
and it helped us a lot.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Do you feel like there were days that you definitely
just did not want to be there or you were
like shut down and it it was like, well, this
is like a huge waste of time, and then how
would you pull yourself out of that.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
It's so interesting because I feel like I never, ever,
even through all of this and everything that we had
ever been through, like the divorce word never hit my
mind ever. Like I just was like, it's just a
non negotiable, like we're not getting divorced ever in our
whole entire lives, Like you're gonna just get better, Like
we're just gonna figure out ways to get you better,
and then we're gonna be together forever. Because I strongly

(32:32):
believed so much that this man that I fell in
love with was still there underneath all of this destruction
and turmoil.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
So I don't know if I ever wasn't willing.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
I think at times I was more shut off because
I was just exhausted then necessarily like I just was
unhopeful because I think the hope was always there. I
never really gave up on him and my hope for him,
which is good I mean a lot of people, I
think in times they just they get to the point
where like the hope just gets lost and then they

(33:04):
just have no that's it for them. But luckily I
still always had that, which is I think what helped
a lot with our relationship and what helps today. You know,
as we always we want to be together forever. We
want to be the best version of ourselves for each other.
So that's why we work so hard at taking care
of ourselves.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
I love that. Well, thank you for sharing some of that,
because I know that it's sometimes really difficult to even revisit.
But I guess since you've made it part of your story,
part of your mission, part of your what does this
make possible? Then it feels good to talk about it
because it's giving purpose to what you went through. And
I'll shift gears like a little bit because it's like,

(33:42):
how do you make a transition talking about you know,
addiction and recovery to So what kind of shampooshould we
be seeing?

Speaker 1 (33:49):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
We do work as a hair colorist and a hair stylist,
and I see you do these product reviews on Instagram,
and I highly appreciate them because there was some hair
dry you posted about the other day that you said
is amazing, and I need to go back and look
at it because I almost do for a new hair dryer,
and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the one
you posted about.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Okay, it's amazing, and I think it'd be great for
your hair, because yes, I do color Amy's hair.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Too, Yes, And I need to come back because since
I've seen you, I got a color analysis and.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
She touches the little piece of your hair and like
decides what it is or.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
It's more your underlying skin tone, and so she goes
with what colors are going to look best with your
underlying tone, okay, eye color and you whatnot. And I've
always gravitated towards, yes, the ombray, like the darker on top,
lighter on bottom, but I always wanted these warm undertones,
Like I wanted the darker part to be sort of chestnutty,

(34:46):
and I wanted the blonder part to be honey and warm.
And apparently I need to be cools and I don't.
You'll probably know what that means as a colorist, she said,
like ashy and cool. So like still, I can do
the blonde, but I need cooler tones. And so anyway,
I definitely am excited to count and get some cool

(35:07):
tones because I haven't done anything with my hair since
I had the color analysis.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
So that's so interesting.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Yeah, it's like what types of makeup you should be
wearing to what color of clothes that's amazing? Maybe something
you have on Bavy too matched today, So that's me
at my next appointment with you. But when it comes
to that hair dryer, yes, we need to know what it.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Is, okay. So it's so funny.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
I've been using this hair dryer for many, many moons
working as a stylist, the Parlux. It's an Italian brand,
So I like Italian cars. I like Italian blow dryers.
They last long and they're fast, very efficient. A my
ble dryer that I've had over ten years, okay, and
it has not broken, by the way, and they have
a great warranty program so if it does break, you

(35:50):
can send it back and they'll send it back.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
So what's the price point? Are we talking here? Like
two fifty okay, so two hundred fty dollars but you've
had it for ten years? Yea worth hasn't broken?

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Worth it?

Speaker 3 (35:58):
And it blow drys really fast, and I assume it's
healthier for our hair.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Very fast, very efficient.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
I have very coarse, wavy hair, and so for me,
that is the number one.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Like I was saying, more than the dce In. I'm
not as big of a fan of the dice In,
but I definitely think it's fine for some people. But
the Parlux is just next level and it's half the price.
So I just feel like it's consistency through and through.
A lot of hairstylists use the Parlux and they love it.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
Okay, how often should we be washing our hair?

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Okay, this is interesting because a lot of people used
to think they shouldn't wash their hair very often. But
here's my take on it. I really think clean hair
is important for scalpelf and scalp health is going to
make your hair better, fuller, shinier, all the things. So
I think a couple of years ago we got into
let's not wash our hair every day and let's use

(36:51):
dry shampoo, which I think is a really bad idea
because it can clog the pores and the follicles. I
don't love it. I think that it's knock for your hair.
I think it can make your hair thinner, And some
people will disagree with me on that, but imagine it.
Your head, where you have your hair, is skin. So
think about if you're putting makeup on your skin all

(37:12):
the time instead of washing it, will you get breakouts?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Will your pores clog? That's what happens.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
So imagine putting that on your scalp and then your
pores clog, and then that follicle that used to come
out of that hair is now clogged and cannot come out.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
So now you're thinning your hair.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Cool. Cool. I was just putting directioning out my hair yesterday.
So now, I mean, this is good information though, because
I had never been told that and I never looked
at it that way. But at what you're saying absolutely
makes sense. And I was proud of myself because I've
trained my hair to go now at least seven eight days.
I feel like it took a process to of course, my.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Oil on your scalp changes, but.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
You're probably about to tell me, but oil is good,
and I think.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Oil is great.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
I think if you have a boar bristle brush like
a Mason Pearson the Abeza brushes, and you brush your
hair every day, the oil is going to be evenly
distributed through the hair, so you're actually gonna make your
hair shiny. It helps give your hair a little bit
of stimulation at the scalp, and then that way your
hair is actually you know, you have blood flow in
your brain, you're stimulating the cells in your scalp so
that you're producing a little bit stronger hair.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
But last time I saw.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
You speaking of strong hair, I got the heat protectant, yes, right,
or whatever, And there's times where I've been out of that,
so I'm like, whatever, how important could it be. I
don't need any heat protectant. You can say what you said.
Do you remember what you said?

Speaker 2 (38:28):
It's the condom for your hair. It is the condom
for the shaft of your hair. Yes, I am not
trying to be vulgar. This is the truth. And if
you do not use it, you will get babies lit ends.
So that's the best way to describe it. And people
are like, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense.
But you're literally coating the individual little shaft of hair
with something that is protecting. And if you look at
the back of something, ingredients they protect it to four

(38:49):
and fifty degrees. So it's like, why would you not
do that for your hair and make sure you're protecting it?

Speaker 3 (38:54):
Which is my next question because on my hair tools
there's always the temperature and I never know what to
set it at. So what is the ideal temperature?

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Well, I always set mine really high because I know
how to use it. If you use the Parlux, I'd
probably blow dry at medium, not max heat level. You
can blow dry the air at MAX, but the heat
level I would probably do medium on you.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Just to make sure it's an amateur because I don't know,
because like by you saying you know what you're doing
is like you're not going to ever keep it on
too long to.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Exactly damage exactly.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
And as far as curling iron, heat really depends on
the kind of hair. I crank my nut because I
have such thick, coarse hair, but I do feel like
if you have finer to medium hair, I would say
like three point fifty would be probably max, which is
like one hundred degrees less than what I use.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
And what about products, like what's it go to Like
if you could only have one hair product for the
rest of your life, what would it be?

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Caristoslis or oil? What is that?

Speaker 2 (39:53):
So it's an oil that actually penetrates into the cuticle.
It makes your hair softer, shinier. I've been using that
product for as long as i've been doing hair, so
thirteen years, and I love it. It's one of the
only hair oils. But there's a lot of different heroils.
There's so many, but it's one that doesn't make your
hair feel super way down.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
You can use it on wet or dry.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
You can actually take the kerostos oil and pump it
into a hair mask, then put it on in the
shower and then it acts as a deep conditioning masks.
There's so many uses for it and it's just a
great It's a great hair oil.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
And so that's the one that I've seen. The bottle
is that the bottle that starts with the K. Yeah,
it's the say aristace keristas. I never know how to
say that. Yes, it's sort of like Alexa oil Keristas.
People always call like Kerastasi or something like, sort of
like ae until you have to say It's like they're.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Like, bill by bilage, can I have the bilage? I'm like,
you mean the bolliage. So hair masks.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
I'm glad you said that, because how often should we
be doing a hair mask because I don't ever.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
It's so interesting because nowadays hair masks are like universal.
They basically it's like a shampoo and a hair mask.
Those are things you can buy with dabinas. It's like
a shampoo, and the conditioning masks are like these big tubs,
so it feels like you can use them, which you can.
You can use them every single day if you want.
But if you're using like a deep conditioning mask that
you want to leave on for ten minutes, you can
do it once a week.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
That's what we should do, or we could do.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Because I should do a mask every week.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Okay, my week just got a little bit zero. I'm
not trying to wash my hair once a week. But
I have noticed, especially with age, my hair it's falling out.
And I have extensions, so that helps, but I want
my hair help, so I try to, you know, take
all the props of nutrients and supplements to keep my
the hair that is mine strong, and it has been

(41:40):
growing like in fact, the last time I had my
extensions like swapped out, I was like, oh, my natural
hair has caught up. It's long because I had cut
it off a couple of years ago and it's caught
up and it feels thick, and I'm like, oh, maybe
I could get rid of the extensions that you kind
of get used to that field. But anyway, my point is,
I feel like a lot of my hair comes out
every time my brush air and I shower. I see,

(42:01):
like all of this hair normal. But it's very normal,
very normal. But as we age, it is a problem.
It is getting thinner and doing things in a routine
as annoying as it is, just these simple steps can
just prevent more hair loss down the line.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And remember, you shed like one hundred and fifty hairs
a day, so don't let that freak you out. Okay,
that's a totally normal thing.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Now my brain is curious if I were to get
all the hair that comes out, and I'm like, one, why,
I want to see if I'm am I normal? Or
is this because this looks like a small animal.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
And it's interesting because seasonal changes, like depending on when
weather changes, you might shed more or less like a dog.
I know that sounds crazy, but it's the same thing
as animals.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, similar to our lashes shedding and our skin shedding,
and our eyebrows shed too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Interesting, never realize that, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Okay, well I want to know how you even got
into hair to begin with, because you have all this
knowledge and you were out in LA Like what were
your career girls growing up? Did you like know, hey,
I'm really good at hair and this is what I'm
gonna do, or did you fall into it somehow?

Speaker 2 (43:17):
It's so funny because I knew from like the moment
I was four years old. I used to foil my
doll's hair everything. I wanted to be a hairstylist. And
when I was gonna go off to college, my mom
was kind of like.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I don't know, maybe that should be a plan. B.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
You should go to college and get your business degree
and blah blah blah, and I'm like, oh, okay, fine.
So then I ended up going to school for a
few years and I just never really it never really
like clicked for me. I ended up going to fit
them for a little bit, which was like one of
the best things that I did before because I got
my merchandise marketing degree and I think that that helped
me a lot with my business itself. And we did

(43:52):
a lot of color theory, which was amazing because when
I ended up going to hair school after college because
I didn't first go to hair school. So when I
went to hair school after college, I realized, wow, like
this is amazing.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
I love it. I went to the Aveda Institute. My
great grandfather.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
From Italy was a hairstylist, so it's definitely in my blood.
He used to work at Bullocks in La up the
street for those of you that don't know, and I
know people like Bullocks.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
I remember books.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
It was like a Robinson's may or something like that
at big department store. So he used to do hair
for a bunch of women there around the corner from
where I went to school, which is crazy. And then
my sister and I in high school we started doing
updues and we churched thirty five dollars and we would
be booked out solid during all the proms and homecomings
and stuff.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
So I just always loved it.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
I was always experimenting putting extensions in my friend's hair,
or sewing in clipping WEFs or anything like that. I
just felt like I loved being creative. I performed a
lot in high school, so I think it kind of
gave me like another outlet of like performing and creating
and so I just loved it and then started thirteen
fourteen years ago, immediately walked into a salon. I knew

(45:00):
I wanted to work out after I went to hair
school and I worked from the ground up, worked at
the front desk, worked under a guy James Morrison, who's
like the co creator of bad Head Products.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
I mean, that's career device too, of like you just
kind of got to I mean, Morgan's here right now
and on the Bobby Bone she she started as an intern,
and then she moved to phone girl, and then she
moved to producer, and then she ended up leaving that
part of the Bobby Bones world. But now she's on
Bobby's management team and then the podcast network and that
that's the ground up.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
It's so true, though, and that's what's so important. I
think for now people that are getting into careers. It
takes a lot of work to get to where you
want to be. It's not like an instant gratification thing.
You don't all of a sudden just decide you're going
to do something one day and then just be successful.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
It took me a.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Really long time and a lot of learning and failing
to be where I am now in my career and
a lot of pivoting, you know, like I thought being
an Orange County and doing hair was what I was
going to do forever. And then taking the opportunity to
do the Hill's New Beginnings and seeing what doors that
opened for me. Being able to share my life while

(46:06):
also doing a career, I feel like is really cool because.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
I'm with people all day long. I share a lot about.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Myself anyway to people, But to be able to connect
with people now on that really deep level, it has
been amazing and opened a lot of doors for me.
And moving here, you know, like deciding, Hey, I think
we're going to pack up and move to Nashville and
just start doing here in Nashville, And what.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
An amazing opportunity.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
If I never moved here, I wouldn't you know, I
couldn't even imagine the things that I would be doing.
And now I'm doing the most amazing people in the
industry that I never thought i'd even be.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Able to do.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Yeah, and I'm sure some people may look at your
Instagram and may think like, oh, okay, well how did
she get there? I want to do that, and overnight,
like maybe you know she's doing Keith or Vince Hare
or something. But it's been a long road for you,
for sure.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
It's been a long road.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
And there's certain instances where it's like, I mean, even
working with Keith, you know, I think they had called
me is manager because I had done Nicole's hair before
and they had said, you know, do you know anybody
that can do Keith's hair? And I thought to myself, like,
I don't know, it's kind of out of my comfort zone.
I don't know if I should really do it. And
I just said, why don't I try and see if
you guys like me? And if it works, it works.

(47:13):
And now I was with him all day yesterday on
my birthday shooting a music video. So it's just like
it's you just never know by saying yes, even in
circumstances that you're not really sure about, what doors and
opportunities can really open up for you.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
So I think, if that feeling inside of you is like.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Should I do it?

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Should I not do it?

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I'm nervous, I'm uncomfortable, like do it because even if
it doesn't work out, what's the worst that can happen?

Speaker 1 (47:36):
They don't like you, Okay, so you tried it.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yeah, it's not like you like did something terrible. They'll
just go on and move on to the next person
and not really have the thought about you, which is fine.
It's fine, you know, unless you massively do something to
cause them to think that. But that's normally not going
to be the case, and I think that that's good
advice for sure is to yeah, if you if you're
not even sure, sometimes it's just like you'll figure it out.

(47:59):
I'll figure it out, like say shoot your shot now. Yeah,
like get in there, get your foot in the door.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yes, I love that story. Thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
When it comes to other non negotiables at your house,
do you have like a journaling practice, a gratitude practice,
or like, what's something that you do to stay centered
and grounded.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
So my biggest thing people think I'm crazy about. I
wake up at four thirty every single morning. I didn't
this morning because I went to the gym already four
times this week, but I go to burn boot camp.
I'm a big believer in physical and mental health and
how much it really takes a toll on you, and
so getting myself to the gym at that five o'clock
class by myself when nobody's awake It is my time

(48:40):
because when I come home, I'm in mom mode, and
then I'm in work mode, and then I'm back in
mom mode, and then.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'm in wife mood.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
So you know, all of those different kinds of faces
that I and hats that I have to wear throughout
the day.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
This is my time that I get to have for myself.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
And sometimes people don't want to carve out that time
for themselves because they think, oh, I don't want to have.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
To wake up that.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Really, well, that's what I have to do to be
able to allocate time for myself. So I want to
do that. It's important to me. I love reading my
Jesus Calling daily devotional. I think it's just really inspiring
for me. I go to Church of the City and
so right now we're not doing the morning that's rights
you do.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Oh my gosh, I love it. I just got baptized
two weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
There.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I saw your photos.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
It was amazing. I felt like I'm gonna be thirty five.
God was speaking to me, and it was an amazing thing.
They're daily morning prayers that they do where they read.
I don't know what they're they're daily devotionals. I guess
you would call it too, But I used to listen
to those every single morning, and they're not doing them
right now through Lent.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
So normally I go to the gym and I listen
to them on the way home.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Digital Detalks, Digital Dtalks, Yes, So that's just one of
the things that's like a non negotiable for me that
helps me a lot.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Well, I'm going to have you do some gratitude right now.
I'll just have you share four things that you were
grateful for today, big or small.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
I was so grateful this morning.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
It was so sweet because it was my birthday yesterday
and the girls from the salon came in with all
these cupcake singing to me. So that just made me
feel so grateful to be in the space that I
am at Volume two in Nashville, because I just feel
like the girls that I get to surround myself with
are just wonderful like my did amazing humans, and so
I love that grateful for that, grateful I get to

(50:16):
be here on the podcast seeing you because I haven't
seen you for a minute, so it's been really nice
and giving me the opportunity to just tell my story
and hopefully it connects with one person and they feel
less alone, or they learn a hairtip, so you know.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
It's or both or both, that would be great.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
I'm so incredibly grateful for my husband and my kids.
I guess that's the three and four because I literally
do not know what I would do without my family.
They mean everything to me, and that's why I work
so hard. That's why I do the things that I do.
That's why I talk so openly about addiction and mental
health in my experience, because I want my daughter to

(50:55):
know our story and have her understand what mental health
is and be a support for her in the years
that she's growing up. She's six, I mean the high
school years. I don't have a high schooler yet. But
being able to just be open with her and honest
about feelings and being okay with getting therapy and help
in times when you don't have the tools. I hope

(51:17):
that's inspiring to her one day. Yeah, my son, I mean,
you can't forget about my son, but he's too so
I'm thinking ahead a little bit with her going into
high school. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
I think that's so beautiful because it's releasing any shame
that's around what you've gone through, what Jason went through,
and your kids feeling like a safe place, like if
they mess up in certain ways, they'll be like, oh,
I don't even have a shame about this. I can
go to mom and dad and I can talk to
them about it, like it sucks them. In this situation,
I'm terrified. I don't want to go to them, but

(51:46):
at least they're likely not going to feel shamed by you.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
That would be like the greatest parenting gift ever.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
I think that's the best thing we can do as
parents sometimes. I mean, obviously there has to be boundaries
around it and age appropriate of what kids know and
what they don't know. But I don't know, I just
grew up in a time, you know, growing up in
the eighties and the nineties, our parents just they were
from a different time, and then their parents from a
different time, like people just didn't talk about things. And again,
you know, you can decide together what you're going to say,

(52:13):
what you're not going to say. But I feel like
the more open and honest we can be with our
kids about things, it's just creating a safe space juxta
a safe space. So yeah, I think it's beautiful, And
I guess I'll close with this final question, since you
know you mentioned your non negotiable waking up at four thirty,
and how do you and Jason provide that support for

(52:35):
each other because obviously kind of the ying to the yang,
he needs things too, and so is that something like
y'all sat down and planned, like, hey, look this is
what I need and this is what I need. I
just feel like some homes need that advice and just
hearing how other people operate is helpful to see how
your needs are met and his needs are met. In
that way, I.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Think one of the most important things for couples is
our therapist always telled us, like, when you go on
a date, decide it's going to be a date or
a business meeting, because a lot of times when you're
with your significant other, you can talk about all the
things about the kids and the planning and everything else,
but it's so important to date your partner and recreation
and hobbies like those things, talking about the things that

(53:17):
you like, relearning about each other. That is what keeps
us really tight, checking in with each other even at
the end of the day, even if things are so
crazy and chaotic, taking the time to like look each
other in the face, give each other the biggest kiss
and just hold each other for those five minutes to
help support each other like.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
We did out all the time.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
We're very affectionate towards one another, and I feel like
that came with time because of you know, through the
addiction process there can be resentments and sometimes it could
have been hard at times to want to hug my
partner in those moments. But now it's like really being
affectionate and loving and showing our children that is really
important to me too, So I just.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Yeah, thank you being intentional about that, and yes, being
sometimes it seems so unromantic, could be like, hey, we
kind of need to have a business meeting date, but
those are necessary too because then that's how everybody gets
their schedule and order and their needs get met. So yes,
all right, Ashley Waller, where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (54:09):
You can find me on Instagram at Ashley Waller. And
I just started doing TikTok, but I'm like literally one
of the oldest preval on TikTok because.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
I don't even know how to use it. No how
old are you? You just turned thirty.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Five, but I'm on there and I'm forty. I'm about
to turn forty three.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
So I'm like, you know, like the rookie on TikTok
though I'm learning how to use it.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
So at Ashley Waller on TikTok also.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Okay, awesome. And then what about the foundation? Where can
people find information? The Family Recovery Foundation. It's called TFR
Foundation dot org. TFR Foundation dot org

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