January 25, 2024 • 24 mins
Amy’s friend, Ally Fallon, joins the show today! Ally is an author, public speaker, writing coach and host of the podcast “Write Your Story” which is also the title of her upcoming book!
Amy & Ally talk:
-Dealing with shame & guilt so you can have more fun in your life!!
-Dating with curiosity.
-What is Wintering???
-Learning to adult after divorce
Plus, “The Bear”, guilt over not making elaborate dinners, and the recipes Amy & Ally are loving right now!
Ally’s suggested journal prompt for feelings of embarrassment / shame / guilt / regret:
- Identify what you're feeling or how it feels in your body
- Identify stories or moments in your life where you remember feeling this way
Quote from Bill Crawford: “Regret acknowledges that I made a mistake, shame says I am a mistake and guilt is what others use to try to make us feel ashamed.”
Listen to Ally’s Write Your Story episode about the concept of wintering: “What’s Happening When It Feels Like Nothing Is Happening”.
HOST:
Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
GUEST:
Allison Fallon // writeyourstory.com/ // @AllyFallon
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Cass up little food for yoursel life. Oh it's pretty,
but hey, it's pretty beautiful, beautiful that for a little more
said he You're kicking with four.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
With Amy Brown, Happy Thursday.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Four Things Amy here and my friend Ali Fallon is
here with me and we're going to talk about how
our lives are more fun when we're not consumed with
shame and guilt. And Ali's been on the podcast before.
She's an author of public speaker, writing coach, and host
of her own podcast called Write Your Story, which is
also the title of your new book, Ali, your fourth
(00:53):
book that's coming out.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
And what is Right your Story going to do for us?
It will help you write your story. It helps you
take an experience from your life and turn it into
a story. But it's really about so much more than that.
I mean, obviously, if you've always wanted to write your story,
then this is the book for you. But I want
it to do more than just help you get the
words on the page. It's also about seeing your life
(01:15):
through the lens of narrative storytelling, personal storytelling in order
to see what your life is trying to show you.
Because I firmly believe that our life is always speaking
to us, and a lot of times, just because we
move so fast, we're missing what it's saying. And when
you start to put your experiences on the page, either
in a journal or in an Instagram post, or in
(01:37):
a book or whatever, you start to see the threads
that are there and the themes that show up, and
you see that your life is giving you a message,
teaching you something that then you can pass on to
the others around you.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, you know, something that you learned a lot about
and passed on to others is how you dealt with
feelings of shame when your first marriage, you know, the
one you thought you were going to be in for
the rest of your life ended. I know that I've
benefited from you sharing about so many of the things
that came up for you because of how unhealthy the
relationship was and your decision to end it.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I left a really toxic marriage where there was a
lot of control and abuse happening, and I fully played
into the abuse cycle and was part of the toxic relationship.
But one of the consequences of that dynamic playing out
in my marriage was that I left the relationship almost
(02:32):
like a ten year old, feeling like I didn't know
how to make decisions for myself or trust my own
choices about even small things. I wrote about this and Indestructible,
which is my second book, But in Indestructible I talk
about trying to go buy a car, and even the
decision of buying a new car, it was like I
was completely flooded and felt like I couldn't trust myself
(02:53):
to make this decision. Whatever decision I made was going
to be the wrong decision. I had so much guilt
and shame and couldn't fully differentiate between what was guilt
and what was shame and what was regret and any
of that. And so so even something as small as
buying a car felt impossible for me, let alone picking
a partner or deciding where I was going to live
(03:14):
or buying a house or you know, some of those
bigger decisions. And so I had to work through a
lot of that while I was in that season of
my life and really babystep it like I had to
learn how to just you know, make a choice, knowing
that there was no such thing as a writer or
wrong answer. It was just make a choice that feels
right to you in this moment, and then to allow
(03:36):
yourself to sit with that and be present with it
and notice what comes up for you, and maybe some
guilt comes up, maybe some shame comes up, maybe some
regret comes up. For me, it was about learning how
to tolerate those sensations and notice them and be aware
of them and process through them, rather than organizing my
life in such a way where I wanted to make
(03:57):
a decision so that I never felt guilt, or make
a decision so I never felt shame. It's like, you
can make a choice and feel regret. That's okay. You
can be like, wow, if I had known back then
what I know now, I wouldn't have made that choice.
That's just information.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
There's a quote that says, regret acknowledges that I made
a mistake. Shame says I am a mistake, and guilt
is what others use to try to make us feel ashamed.
That quote is from Bill Crawford, by the way, and
I like that he says, regret acknowledges that I made
a mistake. And I like that you just said that regret,
(04:34):
you know the mistake. That's information. Gathering information from your
regrets ultimately leads to more fun in life and I'll
use me dipping my toes into the dating world now
as an example, because I thought I had worked through
any and all shame that I felt around being divorced,
but having to make that known to someone on a
(04:55):
dating app, and the fear that has popped into my
mind about potential rejection because as I've been divorced, the
fear of feelings are basically leading to shame feelings because
I'm worried that I'm not good enough, that I'm a failure,
that something is wrong with me. And I know that
these things aren't true, So I'm glad I've caught these
thoughts before they take up more permanent resonance in my mind.
(05:19):
But if I listen to them, I would miss out
on the fun of dating and meeting new people, having
new experiences. And then if I go into it knowing
that I don't have to make decisions that I never
will feel regret or shame for, then there's more room
for fun. And even if there is regret again, I
will see it as information and it won't keep me
locked up in my house for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You're going on a date through the lens of whatever happens.
I need to not feel regret about this, or need
to not feel shame about this. Then there's no space
for play or fun or just getting to know someone
or curiosity or any of that. It's like the only
thing you can focus on is avoiding the shame. Whereas
(06:00):
if you go on a date and you're just like,
who knows what's going to happen, But we're going to
I'm going to get to know this person. I'm going
to be curious about them. I'm going to be curious
about maybe what kind of chemistry may or may not
be here. I may gather some funny stories and we'll see.
Then there's just so much more space for possibility. Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I like that you mentioned curiosity because curiosity is where
we have such an opportunity to grow and learn and
find new relationships and opportunities and all the things. And
you also mentioned if I had known back then what
I know now, I wouldn't have made that decision. Being
able to say that to yourself and see that you
(06:37):
learned from your regret with information instead of just living
in it, just totally stuck in it is so good.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And it teaches you to trust yourself so you can
go Wow. If I had known back then what I
know now, I would have made a different choice. So
now I'm equipped with that information to make a different
choice next time.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Every time we practice saying that around any regret, we're
exercising that muscle, and ultimately we'll get better at dealing
with regret and shame.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But there's also times that we may be dealing.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
With guilt, you know, And that quote that I shared,
the last part of it says, guilt is what others
use to try to make us feel ashamed. You were
sharing with me when you know we were just catching
up as friends before we started recording. That you had
some framework around dating, and we'll just stick with the
dating example. Others listening might have other regret, shame, guilt
(07:29):
categories in their life or circumstances that they're dealing with.
But I think that your framework will apply to a
lot of situations. So can you repeat what you told
me earlier.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I'm not going to let myself get stuck in shame
because shame is not productive to help me learn what
I need to learn about myself or move forward or
create a relationship with someone. So I'm allowed to feel guilt.
I'm allowed to feel regret. I'm allowed to say I
would never do that again if I had it to
do over again. I'm also allowed to feel like that
was fun. I could feel like hearted about it, like
(08:00):
that was fun, fun date, you know, not a match,
not for me, moving on, And it doesn't have to
be so serious. I think this is more than we
need to get into. But just the way that I
was raised around dating was so I was raised in
the kis Dating Goodbye era, so it was just so
serious and so like you got to find your husband.
(08:22):
And I feel like between my two marriages, I really
needed a time to just go out, have fun, see
what happens, play, be curious, like just kind of test
the waters and see what unfolds from there. And it
was really good for me, And I was explaining it
to you like it's like it cleared the pipes of
the toxic dynamic with me and my ex too. I
(08:43):
needed to just see that I could create that with
another person, Like we could have a fun time together,
we could have a silly dynamic, we could play.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
You could be vulnerable, I could be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I could connect with someone. There could be chemistry there
and it doesn't have to be my forever person. But
there could be chemistry there and that could be fine.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
You know, something that just popped in my head as
I sit here thinking about having another person in my
life in that manner is that they would see things
that others don't really get to see, Like they would
see that I'm not really an adult or I have
no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And maybe there's a lot of adults that feel this way.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
But I learned how to log into my bank account
last year because Ben always handled our finances. I've talked
about that multiple times. I'm a pro at it now,
which feels good. But you know, take the snowstorm that
we just had in Nashville for an example. Like my
I didn't know how to drive and that type of
weather because Ben would always drive, and I didn't know
how to put salt on my walkway. I mean, there's
(09:40):
certain things that, yeah, you just pull it up on
YouTube and it's not that hard, but I just wish
I knew these things, Like I cut my finger to
change the alarm battery the other day because I'd never
done it before, and it's way more complicated than you
would think, and I don't understand proper tire pressure, like
I know when my car tells me I need it,
but I want to understand the numbers my elf, like
(10:00):
without a warning from my car. And those are definitely
small examples that are just top of mind. But there's
other things that are bigger, like insurance that I had
to get late last year. I had no idea what
I was doing, not a clue, And these are just
things that embarrass me that at forty two years old,
I don't know how to do them. So one of
(10:22):
my goals for this year is just to learn more
adult things, especially around my house, and then also to
teach my kids these things, like they'll learn as I learn,
and I know that I can do it all because
you know, I was terrified of the bank account stuff
and I've totally got that down now.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And I feel like there's two ways you can approach
those kinds of things too. You could approach it from
the shame of oh, I should know how to do this,
or you could approach it from I just want to
learn this so that I know it, so I can
teach it to my kids and so I can take
good care of myself. And it sounds like you're definitely
doing the latter, which I think is a really healthy
way to approach it. And it may be that for
(11:03):
a period of time in your life there's a steep
learning curve because there were all these things that he
took care of that now you have to learn how
to do, like the bank account and assaulting and the
driving and all those things. But like you said, in
a year from now, you'll look back and be like, oh, actually,
it was a steep learning curve, but I learned all
of that and now I can handle it. And also,
there may be another partner in your life someday you
(11:24):
get to pass that stuff off to again, the stuff
that's just really not fun for you that comes easily
for them.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
So yeah, maybe, I mean that would be nice. And
I don't know why I'm embarrassed about all the ways
that I don't feel like an adult. There's clearly some
things I need to work through when it comes to that.
You know, I'm thinking, since you're the queen of writing
and journaling prompts, do you have a prompt for us
if we're feeling embarrassed about something or shame, guilt, regret.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, to me, there's two steps to the prompt if
you were going to use it as a writing prompt,
except one would be to identify what you're feeling. And
sometimes you don't have the word for it, but I
find it can be really helpful to just describe how
it feels in your body. So maybe you don't know
if what you're feeling is shame or guilt or regret
or remorse, but you can journal just this is what
(12:11):
is happening in my body. I feel a heaviness in
my chest, I feel not in my stomach, I feel
my hands are sweaty. You know, my heart is raising.
And as you describe what's happening in your body, it
may give you more clarity about what the emotion is.
And you don't even need to know. You don't have
to have the name for the emotion. But if you
begin to pay close attention to what's happening in your body,
that's a really great first step. And then the second
(12:33):
step would be and you kind of touched on this,
but identifying some stories from your life, the moments when
you also remember feeling this way. So if you are
feeling these knots in your stomach and it's just so tight,
you know you feel like it's closed off, nothing can
get through. It just feels so dark in there, it
feels so tight. Maybe you go, oh, I remember this
(12:55):
other time in my life when I felt like this
and this is what was going on, and you could
journal about that. I remember another time in my life
when I felt this way and this is what was
going on. Maybe it was during finals week, or maybe
it was another time when my bank account was low
or whatever. And writing out those stories can be a
really helpful tool to show you the pattern of when
(13:16):
this emotion shows up in your life. And as you
begin to write those stories, those patterns and the themes
and the threads start to show you where you have
room to grow or what this feeling is here to
teach you. So writing out those stories can be a
really helpful part of the tool.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And that's why you're the host of Write your Story podcast.
Your tools, steps, prompts, they're always so helpful and putting
pen to paper. I'm very curious about a topic that
you're covering on your podcast right now. You're dedicating two
episodes to something called wintering.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I'm very curious about a topic that you're covering on
your podcast right now you're dedicating two episodes to something
called wintering.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
What is that? Wintering is a season or a period
of time in your life when you choose to go
inward and reflect on yourself your life rather than to
go external, to go outward. So if you think of
like the metaphor of the seasons, that summer is a
season where everyone comes out of their houses and spends
(14:28):
time in the sun, and you go on vacation and
you go out into the world, and wintering is a
season where all of the growth and all of the
progress is happening inside. It's happening, you know, under the surface,
under the soil. And so a wintering season is about
going internal. It's about you know, maybe not seeing as
many people, not making as many plans, spending more time
(14:50):
in the actual physical darkness, journaling, you know, staying in
your pjs, drinking hot beverages, watching movies, staying in bed
for longer, getting more sleep, ge rest, those kinds of things.
So just this idea that it can be really healthy
for a season to slow down and go inward and
spend some time reflecting on yourself and on your life.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
You had one go up this week, and you have
another one going up next week.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yes, so when I went up on Tuesday and episode
two go up next week, Okay on Tuesday again.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Ali's podcast is called Write Your Story, and I can
get on board with wintering for sure. I feel like
I've been wintering as I've been binge watching The Bear.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Oh such a good show.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I realized that way back when it came out and
everyone was raving about it, raving about it. I started
it and then I realized I never finished it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I could you know why? This is my theory? The
first three episodes are so stressful. Uh huh. Yeah, It's
like hard on your nervous system. And I feel like
when I started it before, I was like, Nope, can't
do it, turn it off. But I made it through
this time. Yeah, and it's really good.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I'm all in now and almost done with the first
season and then I'll get to roll into the second.
But I've been wanting to cook more love it and
made hamburgers the other night that I was trying to
mimic a hamburger that I love in Town that's like
a smash burger that in between the two patties has
a layer of parmesan.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think that's the cheese they're using.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I'm not sure, but I highly recommend smash burgers.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
So the really thin two.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Patties on one sandwich in between, a sharp parmesan and
then a pepper jelly on each side of the buns.
I did fresh sour dough bread from a bakery here.
I want to bake my own, but I'm not quite
there yet. I never did that during Okay, I get there.
(16:42):
Some people have started this week because they've been having
to stay home again, at least in this part of
the country. But something about the parmesan and the pepper
jelly and the meat and the I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
It sounds like so I'm coming over for dinner.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Sure, yes, chef. Come.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
So I feel like when we're in the kitchen or like, yes, chef,
and then when you come up behind someone like yeah,
even with my kids, I was doing it. I'm like
behind and you walk behind and then corner corner around.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
So that's been kind of fun to cook more with
the kids. And they're not watching the show, but they
get it now because it's.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
What I'm talking about in the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
So I did the hamburger thing, and then I also
did like a pan fried chicken where I marinated it
and milk. I think buttermilk is the preferred method. My
dad used to do buttermilk, but I didn't have that.
I just had whole milk, so it seemed to do
the same, but it makes the meat really tender. And
so marinated it for several hours in the fridge in
milk and then got it out and patted it dry.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't know, I'm like googling all this stuff because
you know I'm a chef.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, yes, chef.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So then I've patted it dry, and then I got
flour and I just dusted it on both sides and
I put like garlic, salt, pepper or whatever, smoke paprika
in the flour, just a little bit to season it.
And then I got my irons cast iron skillet and
I filled it up with some avocado oil, like a
mixture of avocado because high heat point okay with that,
(18:06):
and then a little bit of olive oil like mixed in,
and then I just did about four minutes on each side.
I mean I got the oil really hot and I
dropped them in four minutes east side, flip flip, and
it was so good.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Chef Amy in the house.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, but I only did that because I've been watching
the Bear and not even that they're they're making chicken.
It's a beef restaurant, but it's inspired me. So who
knows what I'm gonna whip up tonight. We'll see how
long it lasts. But I'm I'm here for.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Hey, you're on a good run. Yeah, might as well
go with it.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
What have you been making anything?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
My specialty right now is crockpot dinners. So I did
a curry in the crockpot the other day that was really,
really tasty, and I've been doing pot roast in the crockpot.
I mean, it's hard because I have two little kids
and so they don't give me much time in the
kitchen to prepare foods. My sister does a great job.
She is, I mean, her kids are a little older now,
but she has three kids and she has a set
(19:00):
of twins, and she always had like littles at her feet,
you know, making elaborate dinners. And I'm like, I don't
know how you do that, because I can hardly make
them macaroni and cheese without them.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
We shouldn't feel any around them.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I don't Okay, yeah, maybe I should process.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Through that well, because I feel you on that. My sister,
she's older than me, amazing cook, has four kids, and
she always had home cooked meals most every weeknight around
the table. I just haven't done that, and I feel
like I'm failing my children. Yeah, and while we may
sit around the bar together, not all around the table,
(19:35):
and maybe it is takeout. Still, yeah, five minutes we
sat there for a second, and I just have to
be like, okay, yeah, I'm different than my sister and
that's okay totally.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And I have this conversation with myself a lot too,
where I'm like, different kids get different parents, different parents
get different kids, So I'm like, this is the parent
they got. And honestly, I like cooking, but what I
don't like is cooking in the midst of chaos. The
chaos is so grating on my nervous system that with
like kids screaming and running around, like the cooking loses
its luster for me. So I'm like, in the mornings,
(20:06):
I try to get up before my kids. They're usually
up by like six or six thirty, so I try
to be up by five and I'll throw things in
a crock pot, and I kind of enjoy I enjoy
that first hour of the morning.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I want to know more about the curry chicken, because.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, it's it's just curry powder and coconut milk and
tomatoes and tomato paste and a bay leaf and a
bunch of spices and chicken all in a crockpot. You
literally just throw it in.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Oh shread the chicken and serve it of a rice
or something.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah. Yeah, and sweet potatoes in there too. Oh yeah,
but you can kind of kind of kitchen sink recipe,
like you just throw anything in whatever. And same with
the pot roast. It's like whatever veggies you have sitting around,
just toss them in there with a chuck roast and
some beef broth. And I've always put potatoes in there
and a couple of bay leaves and whatever spices I
(20:54):
don't know. I usually put like garlic, salt, onion powder.
They usually yeah, all the stuff. Did you know that
spices can expire? Yes? I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Well, I'm the people don't check those. I saw this
story the other day.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
He's like, some people don't check that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I often don't.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
But this is a story that reminded me of was
in the news last week of this mom that made
her famous, like apple Pie, and her kids are like, Mom,
this is something's off. This doesn't taste right, And they
went to her spice rack and her nutmeg had expired
twenty four years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And I do think that.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
It's okay to use it a certain amount of time
after the expiration date. Who knows, maybe even a year
or two. Who cares? Yeah, I say, who cares? I
don't know, not the FDA, But I do think you
can go past the exploration on most things, especially pantry kids.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I went through my pantry the other day and got
rid of all the spices and our medications that were expired,
because with the medications, I'm like, I'm not going to
mess with this if I'm giving stuff to my kids.
There were some allergy medications and stuff in there that
were a few months expired, so I just threw everything away.
And I was like, wow, I think a few months
you could still, I'm sure, but I felt like since
it was metas and I was like, I don't want
to mess with it, and also I needed to clear
(22:03):
out some space, so.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Okay, I'm like ring it over here. Okay, I'll take it.
I'll take a your expire, I'll pay great, yea, you
can take. I think it's just that the potency or sure,
maybe it's just not strong, but it's not going to
be harmful.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
But yeah, I fit your kids. I totally understand that.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
But yeah, I think sometimes we overlook the spices just
because we don't think to look at the often. Yeah,
and you might end up with a nasty apple pie.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So s heads up.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I mean, I was like, well on twenty four years.
But I mean, honestly, if you live in the same house,
it's not hard to do it. It's not like a
spice back there.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Really.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I actually I made scrambled eggs the other morning and
then realized that I had put a little half and
half in, which I don't use half and a half
a lot in my house, but I'd put a little
half and half in the scrambled eggs. And then Matt
was like, did you put this in the eggs? I'm
like yeah, He's like, it expired on December seventh, and
I was like, oh, I'm like, the kids are eating
the eggs. I'm like, just not doll them. It's fine.
I mean I smelled it. It smelled fine.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I don't know, Dear it happened. Half is like, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I love because I was like worried about the medicine.
But then I'm like, just let them keep eating the
eggs because they were eating eggs.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Expired half and half from over a month ago.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
It's cool.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
But had it been opened or was it the first
time you opened it? First time I opened it?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Then I think you're fine.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Okay, right, because it hasn't been exposed okay to air,
because I think it's once you open something, well.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
How much passed the can you take it if you
don't open it?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
No shame, okay, no shame. No shame in you.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Feeding your kids? Yeah, expired half and half?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, and there they're fine. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I still think that you're a good parent and you
should still feel good about that in yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Thank you. I paked them for breakfast. I mean that's
a big deal.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
You don't need to carry that around with you.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Well, we hope y'all are having the day that you
need to have and whatever it is that you may
be processing, working through feeling any guilt, shame, remorse, regret
about There's a lot of reading online that'll tell you
the difference between all of those, and that way you
can pinpoint. Maybe if you have a better understanding of
exactly what it is your feeling, then you can pinpoint
(24:05):
you know exactly what's causing it and then how you
want to move forward from it, because all of those
things are different, and maybe the roots of them would
even be different too, if you were able to differentiate.
All right, we all can find Ali on Instagram. She's
at Ali fallon a L L y F A L
O N. And then your website is rightourstory dot com correct,
And then that's the same as the podcast, Write your Story.
(24:27):
Check it out. She's got episodes that come out every Tuesday. Yeah,
thanks Ali, Thanks Amy. Bye,
Cass up little food for yoursel life. Oh it's pretty,
but hey, it's pretty beautiful, beautiful that for a little more
said he You're kicking with four.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
With Amy Brown, Happy Thursday.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Four Things Amy here and my friend Ali Fallon is
here with me and we're going to talk about how
our lives are more fun when we're not consumed with
shame and guilt. And Ali's been on the podcast before.
She's an author of public speaker, writing coach, and host
of her own podcast called Write Your Story, which is
also the title of your new book, Ali, your fourth
(00:53):
book that's coming out.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
And what is Right your Story going to do for us?
It will help you write your story. It helps you
take an experience from your life and turn it into
a story. But it's really about so much more than that.
I mean, obviously, if you've always wanted to write your story,
then this is the book for you. But I want
it to do more than just help you get the
words on the page. It's also about seeing your life
(01:15):
through the lens of narrative storytelling, personal storytelling in order
to see what your life is trying to show you.
Because I firmly believe that our life is always speaking
to us, and a lot of times, just because we
move so fast, we're missing what it's saying. And when
you start to put your experiences on the page, either
in a journal or in an Instagram post, or in
(01:37):
a book or whatever, you start to see the threads
that are there and the themes that show up, and
you see that your life is giving you a message,
teaching you something that then you can pass on to
the others around you.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, you know, something that you learned a lot about
and passed on to others is how you dealt with
feelings of shame when your first marriage, you know, the
one you thought you were going to be in for
the rest of your life ended. I know that I've
benefited from you sharing about so many of the things
that came up for you because of how unhealthy the
relationship was and your decision to end it.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I left a really toxic marriage where there was a
lot of control and abuse happening, and I fully played
into the abuse cycle and was part of the toxic relationship.
But one of the consequences of that dynamic playing out
in my marriage was that I left the relationship almost
(02:32):
like a ten year old, feeling like I didn't know
how to make decisions for myself or trust my own
choices about even small things. I wrote about this and Indestructible,
which is my second book, But in Indestructible I talk
about trying to go buy a car, and even the
decision of buying a new car, it was like I
was completely flooded and felt like I couldn't trust myself
(02:53):
to make this decision. Whatever decision I made was going
to be the wrong decision. I had so much guilt
and shame and couldn't fully differentiate between what was guilt
and what was shame and what was regret and any
of that. And so so even something as small as
buying a car felt impossible for me, let alone picking
a partner or deciding where I was going to live
(03:14):
or buying a house or you know, some of those
bigger decisions. And so I had to work through a
lot of that while I was in that season of
my life and really babystep it like I had to
learn how to just you know, make a choice, knowing
that there was no such thing as a writer or
wrong answer. It was just make a choice that feels
right to you in this moment, and then to allow
(03:36):
yourself to sit with that and be present with it
and notice what comes up for you, and maybe some
guilt comes up, maybe some shame comes up, maybe some
regret comes up. For me, it was about learning how
to tolerate those sensations and notice them and be aware
of them and process through them, rather than organizing my
life in such a way where I wanted to make
(03:57):
a decision so that I never felt guilt, or make
a decision so I never felt shame. It's like, you
can make a choice and feel regret. That's okay. You
can be like, wow, if I had known back then
what I know now, I wouldn't have made that choice.
That's just information.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
There's a quote that says, regret acknowledges that I made
a mistake. Shame says I am a mistake, and guilt
is what others use to try to make us feel ashamed.
That quote is from Bill Crawford, by the way, and
I like that he says, regret acknowledges that I made
a mistake. And I like that you just said that regret,
(04:34):
you know the mistake. That's information. Gathering information from your
regrets ultimately leads to more fun in life and I'll
use me dipping my toes into the dating world now
as an example, because I thought I had worked through
any and all shame that I felt around being divorced,
but having to make that known to someone on a
(04:55):
dating app, and the fear that has popped into my
mind about potential rejection because as I've been divorced, the
fear of feelings are basically leading to shame feelings because
I'm worried that I'm not good enough, that I'm a failure,
that something is wrong with me. And I know that
these things aren't true, So I'm glad I've caught these
thoughts before they take up more permanent resonance in my mind.
(05:19):
But if I listen to them, I would miss out
on the fun of dating and meeting new people, having
new experiences. And then if I go into it knowing
that I don't have to make decisions that I never
will feel regret or shame for, then there's more room
for fun. And even if there is regret again, I
will see it as information and it won't keep me
locked up in my house for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You're going on a date through the lens of whatever happens.
I need to not feel regret about this, or need
to not feel shame about this. Then there's no space
for play or fun or just getting to know someone
or curiosity or any of that. It's like the only
thing you can focus on is avoiding the shame. Whereas
(06:00):
if you go on a date and you're just like,
who knows what's going to happen, But we're going to
I'm going to get to know this person. I'm going
to be curious about them. I'm going to be curious
about maybe what kind of chemistry may or may not
be here. I may gather some funny stories and we'll see.
Then there's just so much more space for possibility. Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I like that you mentioned curiosity because curiosity is where
we have such an opportunity to grow and learn and
find new relationships and opportunities and all the things. And
you also mentioned if I had known back then what
I know now, I wouldn't have made that decision. Being
able to say that to yourself and see that you
(06:37):
learned from your regret with information instead of just living
in it, just totally stuck in it is so good.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And it teaches you to trust yourself so you can
go Wow. If I had known back then what I
know now, I would have made a different choice. So
now I'm equipped with that information to make a different
choice next time.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Every time we practice saying that around any regret, we're
exercising that muscle, and ultimately we'll get better at dealing
with regret and shame.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But there's also times that we may be dealing.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
With guilt, you know, And that quote that I shared,
the last part of it says, guilt is what others
use to try to make us feel ashamed. You were
sharing with me when you know we were just catching
up as friends before we started recording. That you had
some framework around dating, and we'll just stick with the
dating example. Others listening might have other regret, shame, guilt
(07:29):
categories in their life or circumstances that they're dealing with.
But I think that your framework will apply to a
lot of situations. So can you repeat what you told
me earlier.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I'm not going to let myself get stuck in shame
because shame is not productive to help me learn what
I need to learn about myself or move forward or
create a relationship with someone. So I'm allowed to feel guilt.
I'm allowed to feel regret. I'm allowed to say I
would never do that again if I had it to
do over again. I'm also allowed to feel like that
was fun. I could feel like hearted about it, like
(08:00):
that was fun, fun date, you know, not a match,
not for me, moving on, And it doesn't have to
be so serious. I think this is more than we
need to get into. But just the way that I
was raised around dating was so I was raised in
the kis Dating Goodbye era, so it was just so
serious and so like you got to find your husband.
(08:22):
And I feel like between my two marriages, I really
needed a time to just go out, have fun, see
what happens, play, be curious, like just kind of test
the waters and see what unfolds from there. And it
was really good for me, And I was explaining it
to you like it's like it cleared the pipes of
the toxic dynamic with me and my ex too. I
(08:43):
needed to just see that I could create that with
another person, Like we could have a fun time together,
we could have a silly dynamic, we could play.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
You could be vulnerable, I could be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I could connect with someone. There could be chemistry there
and it doesn't have to be my forever person. But
there could be chemistry there and that could be fine.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
You know, something that just popped in my head as
I sit here thinking about having another person in my
life in that manner is that they would see things
that others don't really get to see, Like they would
see that I'm not really an adult or I have
no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And maybe there's a lot of adults that feel this way.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
But I learned how to log into my bank account
last year because Ben always handled our finances. I've talked
about that multiple times. I'm a pro at it now,
which feels good. But you know, take the snowstorm that
we just had in Nashville for an example. Like my
I didn't know how to drive and that type of
weather because Ben would always drive, and I didn't know
how to put salt on my walkway. I mean, there's
(09:40):
certain things that, yeah, you just pull it up on
YouTube and it's not that hard, but I just wish
I knew these things, Like I cut my finger to
change the alarm battery the other day because I'd never
done it before, and it's way more complicated than you
would think, and I don't understand proper tire pressure, like
I know when my car tells me I need it,
but I want to understand the numbers my elf, like
(10:00):
without a warning from my car. And those are definitely
small examples that are just top of mind. But there's
other things that are bigger, like insurance that I had
to get late last year. I had no idea what
I was doing, not a clue, And these are just
things that embarrass me that at forty two years old,
I don't know how to do them. So one of
(10:22):
my goals for this year is just to learn more
adult things, especially around my house, and then also to
teach my kids these things, like they'll learn as I learn,
and I know that I can do it all because
you know, I was terrified of the bank account stuff
and I've totally got that down now.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And I feel like there's two ways you can approach
those kinds of things too. You could approach it from
the shame of oh, I should know how to do this,
or you could approach it from I just want to
learn this so that I know it, so I can
teach it to my kids and so I can take
good care of myself. And it sounds like you're definitely
doing the latter, which I think is a really healthy
way to approach it. And it may be that for
(11:03):
a period of time in your life there's a steep
learning curve because there were all these things that he
took care of that now you have to learn how
to do, like the bank account and assaulting and the
driving and all those things. But like you said, in
a year from now, you'll look back and be like, oh, actually,
it was a steep learning curve, but I learned all
of that and now I can handle it. And also,
there may be another partner in your life someday you
(11:24):
get to pass that stuff off to again, the stuff
that's just really not fun for you that comes easily
for them.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
So yeah, maybe, I mean that would be nice. And
I don't know why I'm embarrassed about all the ways
that I don't feel like an adult. There's clearly some
things I need to work through when it comes to that.
You know, I'm thinking, since you're the queen of writing
and journaling prompts, do you have a prompt for us
if we're feeling embarrassed about something or shame, guilt, regret.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, to me, there's two steps to the prompt if
you were going to use it as a writing prompt,
except one would be to identify what you're feeling. And
sometimes you don't have the word for it, but I
find it can be really helpful to just describe how
it feels in your body. So maybe you don't know
if what you're feeling is shame or guilt or regret
or remorse, but you can journal just this is what
(12:11):
is happening in my body. I feel a heaviness in
my chest, I feel not in my stomach, I feel
my hands are sweaty. You know, my heart is raising.
And as you describe what's happening in your body, it
may give you more clarity about what the emotion is.
And you don't even need to know. You don't have
to have the name for the emotion. But if you
begin to pay close attention to what's happening in your body,
that's a really great first step. And then the second
(12:33):
step would be and you kind of touched on this,
but identifying some stories from your life, the moments when
you also remember feeling this way. So if you are
feeling these knots in your stomach and it's just so tight,
you know you feel like it's closed off, nothing can
get through. It just feels so dark in there, it
feels so tight. Maybe you go, oh, I remember this
(12:55):
other time in my life when I felt like this
and this is what was going on, and you could
journal about that. I remember another time in my life
when I felt this way and this is what was
going on. Maybe it was during finals week, or maybe
it was another time when my bank account was low
or whatever. And writing out those stories can be a
really helpful tool to show you the pattern of when
(13:16):
this emotion shows up in your life. And as you
begin to write those stories, those patterns and the themes
and the threads start to show you where you have
room to grow or what this feeling is here to
teach you. So writing out those stories can be a
really helpful part of the tool.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And that's why you're the host of Write your Story podcast.
Your tools, steps, prompts, they're always so helpful and putting
pen to paper. I'm very curious about a topic that
you're covering on your podcast right now. You're dedicating two
episodes to something called wintering.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I'm very curious about a topic that you're covering on
your podcast right now you're dedicating two episodes to something
called wintering.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
What is that? Wintering is a season or a period
of time in your life when you choose to go
inward and reflect on yourself your life rather than to
go external, to go outward. So if you think of
like the metaphor of the seasons, that summer is a
season where everyone comes out of their houses and spends
(14:28):
time in the sun, and you go on vacation and
you go out into the world, and wintering is a
season where all of the growth and all of the
progress is happening inside. It's happening, you know, under the surface,
under the soil. And so a wintering season is about
going internal. It's about you know, maybe not seeing as
many people, not making as many plans, spending more time
(14:50):
in the actual physical darkness, journaling, you know, staying in
your pjs, drinking hot beverages, watching movies, staying in bed
for longer, getting more sleep, ge rest, those kinds of things.
So just this idea that it can be really healthy
for a season to slow down and go inward and
spend some time reflecting on yourself and on your life.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
You had one go up this week, and you have
another one going up next week.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yes, so when I went up on Tuesday and episode
two go up next week, Okay on Tuesday again.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Ali's podcast is called Write Your Story, and I can
get on board with wintering for sure. I feel like
I've been wintering as I've been binge watching The Bear.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Oh such a good show.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I realized that way back when it came out and
everyone was raving about it, raving about it. I started
it and then I realized I never finished it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I could you know why? This is my theory? The
first three episodes are so stressful. Uh huh. Yeah, It's
like hard on your nervous system. And I feel like
when I started it before, I was like, Nope, can't
do it, turn it off. But I made it through
this time. Yeah, and it's really good.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I'm all in now and almost done with the first
season and then I'll get to roll into the second.
But I've been wanting to cook more love it and
made hamburgers the other night that I was trying to
mimic a hamburger that I love in Town that's like
a smash burger that in between the two patties has
a layer of parmesan.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think that's the cheese they're using.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I'm not sure, but I highly recommend smash burgers.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
So the really thin two.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Patties on one sandwich in between, a sharp parmesan and
then a pepper jelly on each side of the buns.
I did fresh sour dough bread from a bakery here.
I want to bake my own, but I'm not quite
there yet. I never did that during Okay, I get there.
(16:42):
Some people have started this week because they've been having
to stay home again, at least in this part of
the country. But something about the parmesan and the pepper
jelly and the meat and the I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
It sounds like so I'm coming over for dinner.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Sure, yes, chef. Come.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
So I feel like when we're in the kitchen or like, yes, chef,
and then when you come up behind someone like yeah,
even with my kids, I was doing it. I'm like
behind and you walk behind and then corner corner around.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
So that's been kind of fun to cook more with
the kids. And they're not watching the show, but they
get it now because it's.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
What I'm talking about in the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
So I did the hamburger thing, and then I also
did like a pan fried chicken where I marinated it
and milk. I think buttermilk is the preferred method. My
dad used to do buttermilk, but I didn't have that.
I just had whole milk, so it seemed to do
the same, but it makes the meat really tender. And
so marinated it for several hours in the fridge in
milk and then got it out and patted it dry.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't know, I'm like googling all this stuff because
you know I'm a chef.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, yes, chef.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So then I've patted it dry, and then I got
flour and I just dusted it on both sides and
I put like garlic, salt, pepper or whatever, smoke paprika
in the flour, just a little bit to season it.
And then I got my irons cast iron skillet and
I filled it up with some avocado oil, like a
mixture of avocado because high heat point okay with that,
(18:06):
and then a little bit of olive oil like mixed in,
and then I just did about four minutes on each side.
I mean I got the oil really hot and I
dropped them in four minutes east side, flip flip, and
it was so good.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Chef Amy in the house.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, but I only did that because I've been watching
the Bear and not even that they're they're making chicken.
It's a beef restaurant, but it's inspired me. So who
knows what I'm gonna whip up tonight. We'll see how
long it lasts. But I'm I'm here for.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Hey, you're on a good run. Yeah, might as well
go with it.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
What have you been making anything?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
My specialty right now is crockpot dinners. So I did
a curry in the crockpot the other day that was really,
really tasty, and I've been doing pot roast in the crockpot.
I mean, it's hard because I have two little kids
and so they don't give me much time in the
kitchen to prepare foods. My sister does a great job.
She is, I mean, her kids are a little older now,
but she has three kids and she has a set
(19:00):
of twins, and she always had like littles at her feet,
you know, making elaborate dinners. And I'm like, I don't
know how you do that, because I can hardly make
them macaroni and cheese without them.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
We shouldn't feel any around them.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I don't Okay, yeah, maybe I should process.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Through that well, because I feel you on that. My sister,
she's older than me, amazing cook, has four kids, and
she always had home cooked meals most every weeknight around
the table. I just haven't done that, and I feel
like I'm failing my children. Yeah, and while we may
sit around the bar together, not all around the table,
(19:35):
and maybe it is takeout. Still, yeah, five minutes we
sat there for a second, and I just have to
be like, okay, yeah, I'm different than my sister and
that's okay totally.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And I have this conversation with myself a lot too,
where I'm like, different kids get different parents, different parents
get different kids, So I'm like, this is the parent
they got. And honestly, I like cooking, but what I
don't like is cooking in the midst of chaos. The
chaos is so grating on my nervous system that with
like kids screaming and running around, like the cooking loses
its luster for me. So I'm like, in the mornings,
(20:06):
I try to get up before my kids. They're usually
up by like six or six thirty, so I try
to be up by five and I'll throw things in
a crock pot, and I kind of enjoy I enjoy
that first hour of the morning.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I want to know more about the curry chicken, because.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, it's it's just curry powder and coconut milk and
tomatoes and tomato paste and a bay leaf and a
bunch of spices and chicken all in a crockpot. You
literally just throw it in.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Oh shread the chicken and serve it of a rice
or something.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah. Yeah, and sweet potatoes in there too. Oh yeah,
but you can kind of kind of kitchen sink recipe,
like you just throw anything in whatever. And same with
the pot roast. It's like whatever veggies you have sitting around,
just toss them in there with a chuck roast and
some beef broth. And I've always put potatoes in there
and a couple of bay leaves and whatever spices I
(20:54):
don't know. I usually put like garlic, salt, onion powder.
They usually yeah, all the stuff. Did you know that
spices can expire? Yes? I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Well, I'm the people don't check those. I saw this
story the other day.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
He's like, some people don't check that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I often don't.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
But this is a story that reminded me of was
in the news last week of this mom that made
her famous, like apple Pie, and her kids are like, Mom,
this is something's off. This doesn't taste right, And they
went to her spice rack and her nutmeg had expired
twenty four years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And I do think that.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
It's okay to use it a certain amount of time
after the expiration date. Who knows, maybe even a year
or two. Who cares? Yeah, I say, who cares? I
don't know, not the FDA, But I do think you
can go past the exploration on most things, especially pantry kids.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I went through my pantry the other day and got
rid of all the spices and our medications that were expired,
because with the medications, I'm like, I'm not going to
mess with this if I'm giving stuff to my kids.
There were some allergy medications and stuff in there that
were a few months expired, so I just threw everything away.
And I was like, wow, I think a few months
you could still, I'm sure, but I felt like since
it was metas and I was like, I don't want
to mess with it, and also I needed to clear
(22:03):
out some space, so.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Okay, I'm like ring it over here. Okay, I'll take it.
I'll take a your expire, I'll pay great, yea, you
can take. I think it's just that the potency or sure,
maybe it's just not strong, but it's not going to
be harmful.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
But yeah, I fit your kids. I totally understand that.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
But yeah, I think sometimes we overlook the spices just
because we don't think to look at the often. Yeah,
and you might end up with a nasty apple pie.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So s heads up.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I mean, I was like, well on twenty four years.
But I mean, honestly, if you live in the same house,
it's not hard to do it. It's not like a
spice back there.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Really.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I actually I made scrambled eggs the other morning and
then realized that I had put a little half and
half in, which I don't use half and a half
a lot in my house, but I'd put a little
half and half in the scrambled eggs. And then Matt
was like, did you put this in the eggs? I'm
like yeah, He's like, it expired on December seventh, and
I was like, oh, I'm like, the kids are eating
the eggs. I'm like, just not doll them. It's fine.
I mean I smelled it. It smelled fine.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I don't know, Dear it happened. Half is like, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I love because I was like worried about the medicine.
But then I'm like, just let them keep eating the
eggs because they were eating eggs.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Expired half and half from over a month ago.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
It's cool.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
But had it been opened or was it the first
time you opened it? First time I opened it?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Then I think you're fine.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Okay, right, because it hasn't been exposed okay to air,
because I think it's once you open something, well.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
How much passed the can you take it if you
don't open it?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
No shame, okay, no shame. No shame in you.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Feeding your kids? Yeah, expired half and half?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, and there they're fine. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I still think that you're a good parent and you
should still feel good about that in yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Thank you. I paked them for breakfast. I mean that's
a big deal.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
You don't need to carry that around with you.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Well, we hope y'all are having the day that you
need to have and whatever it is that you may
be processing, working through feeling any guilt, shame, remorse, regret
about There's a lot of reading online that'll tell you
the difference between all of those, and that way you
can pinpoint. Maybe if you have a better understanding of
exactly what it is your feeling, then you can pinpoint
(24:05):
you know exactly what's causing it and then how you
want to move forward from it, because all of those
things are different, and maybe the roots of them would
even be different too, if you were able to differentiate.
All right, we all can find Ali on Instagram. She's
at Ali fallon a L L y F A L
O N. And then your website is rightourstory dot com correct,
And then that's the same as the podcast, Write your Story.
(24:27):
Check it out. She's got episodes that come out every Tuesday. Yeah,
thanks Ali, Thanks Amy. Bye,
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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