August 30, 2022 • 28 mins
Welcome to the '5th Thing' with Amy & Kat!! Today’s quote is from an IG post that @GabbyBernstein put up about seeing obstacles in life as detours in the right direction (when you choose to see life this way “you can begin to find a deeper meaning and personal growth amidst the discomfort.”) This reminded Amy of a book she read a couple of years ago called ‘Obstacle Is The Way’ that she highly recommends!
Kat introduces us to ‘The Friendship Deck’ in this episode!! “If you are craving more realness and authenticity in your friendships, but don’t know where to start, the Friendship Deck is for you.” She went through some of the cards with Amy to show what it’s like to use these cards to learn more about your friends and feel more connected!!
THE FRIENDSHIP DECK:
https://www.blakeblankenbecler.com/thefriendshipdeck
Thank you licensed therapist, Kat Defatta, for joining us with her wisdom. You can find her on Instagram: @Kat.Defatta + @YouNeedTherapyPodcast.
Best places to find more about Amy: RadioAmy.com + @RadioAmy
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing. I'm Amy and
I'm Cat and our quote today is actually an Instagram
story that I threw my phone and into the microphone
from Gabby Bernstein. My friend Amy who does my lashes,
sent this to me and I just thought it was
really good and someone else might need to hear it.
(00:26):
But it's about turning obstacles into opportunities, and it reminded
me of one of my favorite books that I read
year last year was The Year Before Maybe called Obstacle
is the Way. Such a good book, and this is
basically the same thinking. If you could see the obstacle
of a divorce as an opportunity to start loving yourself more,
(00:48):
What if you could see the obstacle of losing a
job as the opportunity of moving down a career path
that is more elevating and fulfilling for you. What would
happen if you decided to pursue seeve your scary diagnosis
as a detour in the right direction to getting healthier,
to getting more deeply connected to your faith. How different
(01:10):
would your life be if you made the commitment to
see your obstacles as opportunities. The the only one that
stuck out to me was if I was diagnosed with
something and suddenly I'm like okay. But then it's that
way of thinking of you know, even my mom was
diagnosed with cancer, she's like, to quote our boy Donald Miller,
in a way, she what made possible for her was
(01:31):
to use the opportunity to spread joy to others and
to create happiness within her family. She said, I just
want to laugh, and if she was stuck wallowing in
her diagnosis, she would have no space for connection and laughter. Now,
we did have hard days. We weren't in denial of
the heartache that we were facing at times, and there
(01:54):
were real hard days were honestly we were like, okay,
screw joy, this is stupid. But I think because we
leaned into those, we were able to have way more
joyful days. Well, you're having both. I think even that quote,
I liked it, and like, losing your job sucks, and
it could be an opportunity to move you down a
better career path. Getting a diagnosis sucks, and it might
(02:16):
bring you closely to your faith or something like that.
So I like the idea of both. It doesn't have
to be all horrible. Again, two things can be true
the same time at the same time. It's so simple
and obviously, even more than two things can be true
at the same time. There could be a number of
things that are true at the same time. But sometimes
we only want to live in the black and white
(02:38):
and we don't have to. You don't have to. We
don't have to, which has a fun game for us
that we're gonna play. So why don't you talk about
what you brought up here with you today? It feels
like I'm doing show and tell. I brought something to
show you guys. Okay, So I did a episode a
couple of weeks ago on you Neique Therapy with a
fellow therapist. Her name as Blake, Blank and Beckler. Say
(03:02):
that name Blake, Blake, Glen Becker, Blake, Blake and Beckler.
That is a really cool name. She was famous. That'd
be like a really like you know what I mean,
she's the name of Standard. Probably just call her baby Baby. Yeah, Okay, anyway,
so she's a therapist. I met her a while ago.
She used to live in Nashville and we worked at
the same place, and she reached out because she just
launched this new product. It's out now. It's called the
(03:25):
Friendship Deck, and it kind of reminded me of concrete conversations,
except this game is specifically designed by a therapist to
help groups of people create like deeper friendships. So I
had her on you Need Therapy, and we talked about
the myths that were taught about friendship and why it's
important to see the other side of those. So if
(03:45):
you want to learn about that, you can go listen
to that. However, she mailed me one of the friendship decks,
and first of all, this is so cute, just the
packaging and like the cards. I'm a sucker for good packaging. Like,
that's so cute, the vibe, it's yeah, she did a
great job. And in the box that she sent me,
(04:05):
I'm not sure if this is part of the game,
but in the box she sent me this card and
it is health of Friendship check in, and I thought
we could go through it. Okay, but this is I
guess pertaining to us. Okay, hit me. Are you open? Yeah?
I mean I met you because you emailed into the shelves,
but you're a stalker. Just kidding. That has nothing to
(04:27):
do with our friendship. That was over to That was
two and a half years ago. If obviously, if we
weren't going to become friends, we wouldn't have evolved. But
if I really was a stalker, but you're not, and
I've met your family, it's very clear to me that
or not a stalker. Sometimes people can't believe that I
met Mary on Twitter. It's like, Okay, she's very normal,
and yeah, it's not always going to work out that way,
(04:50):
but occasionally you get really lucky with a friend on
social media. I met Lisa on Instagram. Do you have
any friends that you didn't meet on the internet. Let
me see Andrew invest room from high school. It's been
a while, my cousin. I'm saying friends like okay, but
(05:13):
that this is the future. Yeah, Hey, who met their
boyfriend online? Not me? Yeah you did, Yeah we did. Okay,
it's the future. Okay, So can we do the friendship check?
Go ahead, and then if we have time, we can
do some of these cards. Okay, we're gonna start with this.
So number one, what three words? What do you use
(05:34):
to describe the quality of your friendship right now? Accountability, humor,
chicken sausa, speaking of we're about to have Yes, that's
what we're having for dinner. I feel like I can
smell it. Okay. Number two, share time. You don't do
(05:56):
it too, I have to do it too. I don't know.
I'll do it accountability, humor, and check off. Okay, fine,
I'll just do it. But these are good Like this
is things you can do with a partner. You can
do it with a friend, you can do it with
a family member, like I think you can insert any
kind of relationship into the word friendship in these things.
I did this with a client today with her relationship
(06:17):
with her husband. Did the checklist? Okay, So if you're
listening to this and you're not driving, then you could
either drop these down on your phone or write them down,
or maybe even in the moment stuff I've done before
when I'm listening to a podcast or if something resonates
with me from a book or something and I want
to share it, I just text that person right away
(06:38):
as it's in my head. And so it could be
something where you just randomly text your friend out of nowhere,
what three things to find our relationship right now? Hey,
it could be it's a conversation starter. It's a conversation starter,
or your to your husband or your wife or your boyfriend.
This is a cool thing to like because it's a
check in, and we need to do checkens every once
(06:58):
in a while. This is a cool thing to do,
like every six months with somebody who's close in your
life that you're trying to work on a relationship if
both people are open. So Number two, share a time
over the last year where you felt really connected to
your friend in a time where you felt disconnected from them. Okay,
I felt connected to you when we came to your
(07:19):
lake house because I got to meet all of your
family and and yes, that was my first time meeting
Patrick in person. I'd seen him on FaceTime. But your
mom is so lovely and kind and thoughtful and just
seeing your dynamic of how you grew up with your family,
(07:39):
and so that is connection, right. And then disconnected probably
the other day when we were supposed to get together
and then we didn't get to see each other in person,
and I saw you we had to work over zoom. Honestly,
I should have just come because I didn't have internet
and I forgot. Yeah, sometimes when you give me the
option to do zoom, I need you to not give
me that option, Okay, because I probably could have come well, no,
(08:03):
but you had a lot going you were moving into
your new house and there was a lot going on.
And I can understand that feeling, but obviously I think
it is better when we're in person. It's much better.
Okay number three. Also, I just want to say this
kind of stuff is hard, like really sitting down with
somebody and being like this is when I felt disconnected.
(08:23):
Maybe it was a time when that person hurt, your
feelings were ignored something or that's hard to say to somebody.
And also it's important because that's how we actually learned
to be better friends. Yeah, any downs f Downs was
on my podcast for the third time the other day,
and I look at her is she's probably like the
perfect friend and she doesn't ever do anything wrong because
(08:46):
she's so wise and smart and she's all about fun.
And she shared a story about how a friend reached
out to her to share how hey just heads up, like,
do you have a second because this happened and this
is how it made me feel. And Annie had no idea,
and so I think sometimes too being able to communicate
(09:07):
in a healthy way. But Annie owned up to it,
but she had no idea. She'd even hurt her friends.
So she was thankful to know that her friend was
hurting so that she could make it right, right, And
so then there's not resentment that is built right. But
I think, why are we so scared? Me included, because
I've hurt people and I know maybe they haven't wanted
to say something to me. Actually, just reconnected with a
(09:30):
friend that I was friends was for a very very
long time. All the details don't matter here as to
what happened, but we definitely drifted apart, and she had
some resentment in the beginning, but then she was able
to let it go. But we've reconnected and we've had
several good talks since then. But I saw her the
(09:50):
other day and she gave me a handwritten note. It
was about two pages long of paragraphs, and she give
it to me along with like a cute little journal
with a Florida lee because we were both kappas we're
in the same storty. But anyway, I appreciated the note
so much, and I know it took a lot for
(10:11):
her to sit down and write out her thoughts from
the last handful of years, and it was probably very
therapeutic for her to do that and it was her
expressing appreciation for some things that I owned up to,
but it's also her owning up to some stuff, and
I just thought it was a really mature way of
(10:35):
handling it. I have had the thought before of writing
long notes to people, and then I thought, well, what
if they get them and they're like, what is this like?
But I can't control it, they think. If that's what
they think, that is not on me, That is not
for me, if my heart is in the right place
sending it. But anyway, it's just shout out to my
friend for for doing that and sharing her heart and
(10:57):
that to me. I can tell how much we've grow
because we were friends as kids, Like we grew up together,
so we've been through a lot, and we weren't as
mature and I didn't know how to handle certain things,
so I didn't know how to be there for her,
and in my not knowing, I just also kind of disappeared. Yeah,
I feel like that is an example of emotional maturity,
(11:18):
and a lot of people, myself included, I didn't grow
up being able to sit in discomfort and uncomfortable, uncomfortable
conversations like if something happened, we would like I would
give the silent treatment and then we would get over
it and then we would just like never talk about it,
like the sweeper under the rug. So I didn't learn
how to have an ability to sit in all of that.
(11:40):
It just was all or nothing. Any kind of conflict
feels so achy and scary in my body, and it
feels bad and wrong, so I don't want to do it.
So as an adult, it's really hard for me. It
would be really hard for me to sit down and
do this with some of my friends. Yeah, that's why
you don't want to answer them right now? To me,
here's me answered them. I can answer them just getting
Maybe I'm joking, but was I bringing up any f
(12:03):
downs for I think because she was saying that she
had to own up to things, and it was really
helpful that you were saying things could be good for
friends to do a check in, because it's like, yeah,
sometimes it's friends. You don't know that you've hurt the
other person. You have no idea, or maybe you think
silent treatment is happening, but the other person is just busy,
but then you don't realize it and there was no
communication and then if you're mad. Yeah, so all have
(12:27):
to say. This is a practice, So the first time
you do it, you might not go all the way
in and say what you really want to say, but
you have If you are somebody that does not do
this kind of stuff, you don't have to spill out
every single thing the first time you do something like this,
you can walk your way through it. And that's why
I like this game that she made, because the questions
are levels, kind of like concrete conversations, where the first
(12:49):
questions ease you into getting vulnerable. Number three, are there
things that you've wanted to share with your friend, hurts, insecurities,
et cetera that you haven't shared that you'd like to
(13:09):
share now? I don't think so. I feel like you
kind of know at all that I'm willing to talk
about here on the podcast. Well, and it also doesn't
have to be like hurts or insecurities that I've caused
as a friend. It's like in your life. Oh no,
I was thinking that in my life. I'm like, I'm
pretty sure I've say on error all the time what
my insecurities are. Ish, yeah, okay, some of them. Okay.
(13:32):
So it does open up opportunity if somebody wants to
talk what they're scared to do it. And then number four,
the most supportive thing a friend can do for you
in this season of life is what? So, what's the
most supportive thing a friend of yours can do in
this season? Not judge me? Okay, why are you judging
me right now? With your eyeballs? I don't have friends
(13:54):
that currently are, but I would just appreciate in this
season of I need grace. I think we all need it,
and I hope that I extend it. That being said,
I think I'm just in a season where I'm worrying
a little bit too much about what other people are
going to think based on some stuff that's happening. I
(14:14):
know that there's going to be some judgment, but I
definitely don't want it from my friends, So that'd be
helpful things like if it's strangers on the internet, that's
one thing. And I think also in that with the
note don't judge me, because that's hard because sometimes judgments
are like automatic. In that too, I think in that
same vein is know that what is best for one
(14:37):
person and what one person might do isn't always best
for everybody. And so even if we're like, oh, we
wouldn't do that, or I wouldn't handle it that way. Hey,
guess what it works for you to handle it this way.
And that's okay, that makes sense totally. I feel like
I had that with the friend that wrote me the note,
Like there's some stuff from like, oh, I don't know
that I would do it this way at all, but
it is literally not not your life, my life at all.
(15:00):
So she's she needs to do that and I have
to be okay with that, and it's cool and it's cool.
You don't have to like it, but I can. I
can support somebody. Yeah, I agree, And I'm sure there's
friends that haven't agreed or supported certain decisions I've made.
But as long you can still you don't, you can
still support, right, got it? Okay, this is the last one.
(15:20):
She every feels meaningful about your friendship and a firm
qualities you appreciate in your friend. Okay, I think that
you are thoughtful and smart and reliable and funny. Okay,
you can stop too much now, I feel like you
and you're like, I don't want to read these emails.
I didn't mean this turned into tell me about tell
(15:41):
me how much you appreciate me as a friend and
all of the good things, and I didn't mean it
to be that. Well, what Cat is referring to I
don't want to read these emails is sometimes I'm reading
emails that you'll send in and there are paragraphs where
I have gratitude for it, but you're gushing about the
podcast in a way to where if I'm reading get Back,
it feels very weird. Look how great everybody thinks? I am? Right?
(16:05):
And part of this is because I know I'm not
that great. Stop it. No, No, I'm not even not
even self self deprecation. I'm not trying to be self deprecating.
I'm just being like, uh, okay, do you ever do
you ever experience this putting your life on a podcast
in a way, or like I have the Bobby Bones
(16:25):
Show and I have this sometimes how I show up
is really how I want to show up, or I
wish I showed up, but some people in my life
haven't had me show up that way, so then they
might listen and she's right or that was not my
experience with her, and then I feel this weird guilt
(16:46):
about it. We're not guilt, but I hear what you're saying.
I guess I don't. I don't have that because I
very much in the podcast and the stuff I talk about,
I don't do all the things that I talked about perfectly,
like I struggle with a lot of it too. But
that's how I experience you of Like you talk about
stuff and like talk about like working on friendships and
stuff like that, but you also talk about how you're
(17:08):
imperfect in all those things too. So I don't have
this expectation of you that you're going to be a
certain way. I feel like you're cool, bars that low, awesome.
That's not what I said. No, no, I said, I don't.
I don't have an expectation. I don't think that you're
putting a persona out in my experience that you are
(17:30):
this awesome, amazing person. And then I get a different version.
I feel like I do get I get a deeper level.
I think then what I might hear if I'm just
listening to the podcast. I don't know the Bobby Bones show.
I don't listen to it in a long time. Yeah,
well that's okay, I get what you're saying. I guess
I'm just talking through right now. It's just the thought
that I don't know that I've ever shared at but
(17:51):
I was just sharing why sometimes it's uncomfortable for me
to read those things because I also don't want it
to come across the kind of like, oh, listen to
these nice words this person is saying about me, which
words of affirmation are my love language, So you can
still include them in the email, but she doesn't always
read that. I'm just not going to read it out loud.
Maybe I might skip over that part. Is that Okay, yeah,
(18:13):
I think it's fine if you want to keep part
of it, but sometimes you need to, I think. But again,
I'm not going to judge you so too it ever
feels right for you, But I think sometimes it's helpful
for you to be able to say, like, hey, like
I do a good job at this, and I help
people feel included and like they belong and they're not alone,
and people are giving me affirmation that I'm doing a
good job of that. They're not saying you're perfect. Remember
(18:35):
that one email said that she liked you faults and all,
oh yeah, you did get an email that did say that.
So before we end this episode, we're going to do
one of these questions. Okay, maybe too so this is
the first thing we did was a check in from
the friendship deck, and then now we're doing questions. So
here's the confusing party. I don't know if this check
(18:55):
in comes with the friendship deck. She sent it in
the box, so I don't if it's part of the game.
The game is just three sets of questions in different
levels of vulnerability. Gotcha help? Friends? You can do it
as a group. This would be great for that. Maybe
not for your neighborhood friends yet, because you guys are
just getting to know what I did concrete conversation, but
(19:16):
I just did level one. Okay, this would be great
for that because there's group questions in here too. This
is a group question, so maybe we can both answer it.
How did you learn about the birds and the bees?
I don't remember. You don't know. My parents did not
talk to me about it well minded either. For one
time I saw them and I can't yes, I no, no,
(19:37):
And this is before they got divorced. But I do.
And it was a Sunday, because I know, we went
to church, and then after church we were sitting in
the living room. My mom said something about if I
had any questions about what I saw and I was like, nope,
because I think it was probably eight or nine years old.
And did you just close the door and walk out? Yeah, yep, Okay,
(20:02):
did you have any questions? No? I didn't ask her
any and I probably I don't know a friend church.
My mom didn't talk to me about anything. She didn't
teach me how to put a tampon in. My friend
in seventh grade had to teach me. Well, I didn't
start in seventh grade. I think I started in ninth grade.
But my friend that I met in seventh grade, who
thankfully was still my friend in ninth grade, showed me.
(20:24):
Thank god, Yeah, go ahead, Well how did you learn? Well? So,
my parents didn't talk about it either. I had a
friend of mine it was in middle school, I think
it was in sixth grade, on the way to a
field trip to the Renaissance Festival. He told me everything,
and I remember sitting there and I literally I looked
(20:45):
at him and I said, why would anybody want to
do that? I just didn't understand it, and shout out Daniel,
that was him. Then I had I had a crush
on him too. I didn't want to do the Birds
and the Bees with him. Now, Okay, what's the best
way to show that you care when you're going through
a hard time? So what's the best way I can
show that I care about you when you're going through
(21:06):
a hard time? Crumble cookies? Yes, honestly, that's my answer.
You know, I knew that that's what you would say,
because those are amazing. But I sometimes retreat. I'm weird,
So I'm going back to weird. I either retreat and
want to be alone, or I want to be with
(21:27):
someone and maybe just watching something, or maybe I want
to walk and talk. It really just depends on what
it is. But what can we do to show that
we care? Is it just check in with you? Is
it text you even if you're not being responsive, send
me multiple choice? Hey, would you a okay? No, that's good,
like too. If you want to crawl into your red
(21:47):
right now and not talk to anybody, that's fine. Be
you want to go on a walk and we can
talk about whatever. See, I want some cookies. D I
want to just watch something and act like nothing none
of this is even happening. Okay, I am not a
I'm so all over the place, So I don't know
(22:08):
going through a hard time to one you might want
something in a different hard time, but also when you're
going through a hard time, it's overwhelming when people are like,
what can I do for you? And you're like, I
don't know. I don't know what I need, and so
if we give you a list, you're like, oh, that
sounds nice. Okay, what about you crumble cookies. But also
when I'm going through a hard time, I don't know
that I show all the time when I'm going through
(22:31):
a hard time, if it's a noticeable hard time, though
I can think of a few Oh yeah, when I
was crying, Yeah that's fine, But now you did You
called me and you just listen to me, and you
were like, okay, you can cry interesting times. I think
that I need people too, Just text me maybe the
(22:51):
same thing. I don't always want to depend on what
it is, but I always don't want to be around people.
And I like talking about things, but then I don't
want to talk about anymore. Okay, next question? What was
your absolute favorite food in middle school? Do you ever
still eat it? Little Debbie swirl cakes? No? What was
like a weird food you used to eat as a
(23:12):
kid Mac and cheese with ketchup? But I still like
that quite honestly. I don't make it as much though,
But I Kraft macaroni and cheese with ketchup inside so good.
Hot pockets, the bagel bites, those are all still delicious,
yeah right, but I don't eat them anymore. I don't
know the last time I had a hot pocket, which
(23:33):
maybe I need to go get one. I actually don't
really want a hot pocket. Those don't sound appetizing. Bagel bites, yes, However,
a food that I ate that was weird. My mom
would pack me bologna and ketchup sandwiches and that sounds disgusting.
Well you must have liked them. I did, but I
would never eat that now it sounds gross. But if
you like it, go for it. Should we go to
(23:54):
a higher level or should we stay with this? Stayed low,
have a good time. Feel like these loans are still
kind of heavy? Last question? What type of texture are you?
Do you tend to overthink when someone has a different
texting style or responsiveness level. If you're friends with Amy,
you might want to listen up what your texting style
(24:16):
might help them understand you more. Oh, I don't know.
Do you ever get overwhelmed? If you're texting with me. No,
your texting style is You've talked about this on the
show before. I feel like when you have your phone
your responsive responsive, and then you put your phone down,
you like put it down, so you might be in
a conversation and you're like, oh blah blah blah, and
then and then stop responding. Two. But it's not personal.
(24:39):
It's just that you put your phone down, and you
do when when you want to get something done you
but then sometimes they can fade away. That happens especially
if I'm if I'm texting during the Bobby Bone Show
or text come in and then it's a song break,
and I have a minute and I start replying, replying, applying,
and then I might go a full another hour with
(25:00):
looking at my computer on my phone because we're doing
stuff and I can't be distracted by my computer on
my phone. But then other text messages come through are
different things, and then that pushes other ones to the bottom.
You're also a big voice memo gal, and I stopped that.
I feel I could potentially be annoying to people, but well,
you can't keep you can't go back, and if you
(25:21):
look at them, that's unless you save them. I appreciate it.
I always can't voice them a bat because I'm in
a place where I don't want to say what I'm
saying out loud. But I actually appreciate it when you're
like driving or some things you're not texting and driving,
and sometimes the things you want to say are long
and it doesn't work as well, or if it's funny,
(25:43):
it just sounds better if it's a quick I like that.
I just need to speak. There's times where I've started
voice memos for people or voice text and then I
record the whole thing and I looked down and it's
like two minutes, and I think, honestly, because then you
have to keep refreshing your phones because then you have
just over if you stop it, it's a whole thing. Okay, Well, um,
I challenge myself to do better, and I shut it
(26:05):
off and I sent it again and it was like
one minute and twenty still too long. Seconds is like
a long voice meno. But I'm not going to judge you,
and whatever works for you, thank you for that. But
I will also work on keeping voice text super short
if I use them. I'm glad we had this conversation. Okay, well,
(26:28):
I love the friendship deck. I think that this is
something super special and people will appreciate it is a gift.
This is a cool gift, I think. Or if you
just get it for relationships in your life, um, and
you can use it at your next girl's night or whatever,
that's fun. We'll have to keep doing the questions and
questions For my favorite part, I didn't so much love
to check in, so we won't check in anymore. Let's
(26:50):
do more questions and as our friendship develops, we can
move to the higher levels. Yeah. I also think if
you are something that works in mental health as a
therapist or something like that, this it's a cool thing
to have in your office to do with clients to
warm them up to getting vulnerable with other people. That's
one of the things I did with my client is
we practice these together and I was like, see it's
(27:10):
not so hard to answer some of these. You can
talk about it. I love it. Okay, Well, we hope
you'll have a great day night, day, morning, have the
day you need to have whenever you're listening to this
and Cat, where can people find you? You can find
me on Instagram at Cat dot de fata and Also,
you can follow the podcast that I have as well
at You Need Therapy podcast, and you can listen to
(27:33):
You Need Therapy wherever you listen to podcasts. So you
have episodes that go up every Monday and Wednesday, right
right right, And then she's here with me for the
fifth thing on Tuesdays. I've got four things on Thursdays,
and Outweigh a podcast dedicated to eating a sort of
recovery on Saturdays. All right, I hope you all are, Yeah,
(27:53):
having the day you need to have already said that. Okay,
gotta go find me on Instagram. Bye,
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing. I'm Amy and
I'm Cat and our quote today is actually an Instagram
story that I threw my phone and into the microphone
from Gabby Bernstein. My friend Amy who does my lashes,
sent this to me and I just thought it was
really good and someone else might need to hear it.
(00:26):
But it's about turning obstacles into opportunities, and it reminded
me of one of my favorite books that I read
year last year was The Year Before Maybe called Obstacle
is the Way. Such a good book, and this is
basically the same thinking. If you could see the obstacle
of a divorce as an opportunity to start loving yourself more,
(00:48):
What if you could see the obstacle of losing a
job as the opportunity of moving down a career path
that is more elevating and fulfilling for you. What would
happen if you decided to pursue seeve your scary diagnosis
as a detour in the right direction to getting healthier,
to getting more deeply connected to your faith. How different
(01:10):
would your life be if you made the commitment to
see your obstacles as opportunities. The the only one that
stuck out to me was if I was diagnosed with
something and suddenly I'm like okay. But then it's that
way of thinking of you know, even my mom was
diagnosed with cancer, she's like, to quote our boy Donald Miller,
in a way, she what made possible for her was
(01:31):
to use the opportunity to spread joy to others and
to create happiness within her family. She said, I just
want to laugh, and if she was stuck wallowing in
her diagnosis, she would have no space for connection and laughter. Now,
we did have hard days. We weren't in denial of
the heartache that we were facing at times, and there
(01:54):
were real hard days were honestly we were like, okay,
screw joy, this is stupid. But I think because we
leaned into those, we were able to have way more
joyful days. Well, you're having both. I think even that quote,
I liked it, and like, losing your job sucks, and
it could be an opportunity to move you down a
better career path. Getting a diagnosis sucks, and it might
(02:16):
bring you closely to your faith or something like that.
So I like the idea of both. It doesn't have
to be all horrible. Again, two things can be true
the same time at the same time. It's so simple
and obviously, even more than two things can be true
at the same time. There could be a number of
things that are true at the same time. But sometimes
we only want to live in the black and white
(02:38):
and we don't have to. You don't have to. We
don't have to, which has a fun game for us
that we're gonna play. So why don't you talk about
what you brought up here with you today? It feels
like I'm doing show and tell. I brought something to
show you guys. Okay, So I did a episode a
couple of weeks ago on you Neique Therapy with a
fellow therapist. Her name as Blake, Blank and Beckler. Say
(03:02):
that name Blake, Blake, Glen Becker, Blake, Blake and Beckler.
That is a really cool name. She was famous. That'd
be like a really like you know what I mean,
she's the name of Standard. Probably just call her baby Baby. Yeah, Okay, anyway,
so she's a therapist. I met her a while ago.
She used to live in Nashville and we worked at
the same place, and she reached out because she just
launched this new product. It's out now. It's called the
(03:25):
Friendship Deck, and it kind of reminded me of concrete conversations,
except this game is specifically designed by a therapist to
help groups of people create like deeper friendships. So I
had her on you Need Therapy, and we talked about
the myths that were taught about friendship and why it's
important to see the other side of those. So if
(03:45):
you want to learn about that, you can go listen
to that. However, she mailed me one of the friendship decks,
and first of all, this is so cute, just the
packaging and like the cards. I'm a sucker for good packaging. Like,
that's so cute, the vibe, it's yeah, she did a
great job. And in the box that she sent me,
(04:05):
I'm not sure if this is part of the game,
but in the box she sent me this card and
it is health of Friendship check in, and I thought
we could go through it. Okay, but this is I
guess pertaining to us. Okay, hit me. Are you open? Yeah?
I mean I met you because you emailed into the shelves,
but you're a stalker. Just kidding. That has nothing to
(04:27):
do with our friendship. That was over to That was
two and a half years ago. If obviously, if we
weren't going to become friends, we wouldn't have evolved. But
if I really was a stalker, but you're not, and
I've met your family, it's very clear to me that
or not a stalker. Sometimes people can't believe that I
met Mary on Twitter. It's like, Okay, she's very normal,
and yeah, it's not always going to work out that way,
(04:50):
but occasionally you get really lucky with a friend on
social media. I met Lisa on Instagram. Do you have
any friends that you didn't meet on the internet. Let
me see Andrew invest room from high school. It's been
a while, my cousin. I'm saying friends like okay, but
(05:13):
that this is the future. Yeah, Hey, who met their
boyfriend online? Not me? Yeah you did, Yeah we did. Okay,
it's the future. Okay, So can we do the friendship check?
Go ahead, and then if we have time, we can
do some of these cards. Okay, we're gonna start with this.
So number one, what three words? What do you use
(05:34):
to describe the quality of your friendship right now? Accountability, humor,
chicken sausa, speaking of we're about to have Yes, that's
what we're having for dinner. I feel like I can
smell it. Okay. Number two, share time. You don't do
(05:56):
it too, I have to do it too. I don't know.
I'll do it accountability, humor, and check off. Okay, fine,
I'll just do it. But these are good Like this
is things you can do with a partner. You can
do it with a friend, you can do it with
a family member, like I think you can insert any
kind of relationship into the word friendship in these things.
I did this with a client today with her relationship
(06:17):
with her husband. Did the checklist? Okay, So if you're
listening to this and you're not driving, then you could
either drop these down on your phone or write them down,
or maybe even in the moment stuff I've done before
when I'm listening to a podcast or if something resonates
with me from a book or something and I want
to share it, I just text that person right away
(06:38):
as it's in my head. And so it could be
something where you just randomly text your friend out of nowhere,
what three things to find our relationship right now? Hey,
it could be it's a conversation starter. It's a conversation starter,
or your to your husband or your wife or your boyfriend.
This is a cool thing to like because it's a
check in, and we need to do checkens every once
(06:58):
in a while. This is a cool thing to do,
like every six months with somebody who's close in your
life that you're trying to work on a relationship if
both people are open. So Number two, share a time
over the last year where you felt really connected to
your friend in a time where you felt disconnected from them. Okay,
I felt connected to you when we came to your
(07:19):
lake house because I got to meet all of your
family and and yes, that was my first time meeting
Patrick in person. I'd seen him on FaceTime. But your
mom is so lovely and kind and thoughtful and just
seeing your dynamic of how you grew up with your family,
(07:39):
and so that is connection, right. And then disconnected probably
the other day when we were supposed to get together
and then we didn't get to see each other in person,
and I saw you we had to work over zoom. Honestly,
I should have just come because I didn't have internet
and I forgot. Yeah, sometimes when you give me the
option to do zoom, I need you to not give
me that option, Okay, because I probably could have come well, no,
(08:03):
but you had a lot going you were moving into
your new house and there was a lot going on.
And I can understand that feeling, but obviously I think
it is better when we're in person. It's much better.
Okay number three. Also, I just want to say this
kind of stuff is hard, like really sitting down with
somebody and being like this is when I felt disconnected.
(08:23):
Maybe it was a time when that person hurt, your
feelings were ignored something or that's hard to say to somebody.
And also it's important because that's how we actually learned
to be better friends. Yeah, any downs f Downs was
on my podcast for the third time the other day,
and I look at her is she's probably like the
perfect friend and she doesn't ever do anything wrong because
(08:46):
she's so wise and smart and she's all about fun.
And she shared a story about how a friend reached
out to her to share how hey just heads up, like,
do you have a second because this happened and this
is how it made me feel. And Annie had no idea,
and so I think sometimes too being able to communicate
(09:07):
in a healthy way. But Annie owned up to it,
but she had no idea. She'd even hurt her friends.
So she was thankful to know that her friend was
hurting so that she could make it right, right, And
so then there's not resentment that is built right. But
I think, why are we so scared? Me included, because
I've hurt people and I know maybe they haven't wanted
to say something to me. Actually, just reconnected with a
(09:30):
friend that I was friends was for a very very
long time. All the details don't matter here as to
what happened, but we definitely drifted apart, and she had
some resentment in the beginning, but then she was able
to let it go. But we've reconnected and we've had
several good talks since then. But I saw her the
(09:50):
other day and she gave me a handwritten note. It
was about two pages long of paragraphs, and she give
it to me along with like a cute little journal
with a Florida lee because we were both kappas we're
in the same storty. But anyway, I appreciated the note
so much, and I know it took a lot for
(10:11):
her to sit down and write out her thoughts from
the last handful of years, and it was probably very
therapeutic for her to do that and it was her
expressing appreciation for some things that I owned up to,
but it's also her owning up to some stuff, and
I just thought it was a really mature way of
(10:35):
handling it. I have had the thought before of writing
long notes to people, and then I thought, well, what
if they get them and they're like, what is this like?
But I can't control it, they think. If that's what
they think, that is not on me, That is not
for me, if my heart is in the right place
sending it. But anyway, it's just shout out to my
friend for for doing that and sharing her heart and
(10:57):
that to me. I can tell how much we've grow
because we were friends as kids, Like we grew up together,
so we've been through a lot, and we weren't as
mature and I didn't know how to handle certain things,
so I didn't know how to be there for her,
and in my not knowing, I just also kind of disappeared. Yeah,
I feel like that is an example of emotional maturity,
(11:18):
and a lot of people, myself included, I didn't grow
up being able to sit in discomfort and uncomfortable, uncomfortable
conversations like if something happened, we would like I would
give the silent treatment and then we would get over
it and then we would just like never talk about it,
like the sweeper under the rug. So I didn't learn
how to have an ability to sit in all of that.
(11:40):
It just was all or nothing. Any kind of conflict
feels so achy and scary in my body, and it
feels bad and wrong, so I don't want to do it.
So as an adult, it's really hard for me. It
would be really hard for me to sit down and
do this with some of my friends. Yeah, that's why
you don't want to answer them right now? To me,
here's me answered them. I can answer them just getting
Maybe I'm joking, but was I bringing up any f
(12:03):
downs for I think because she was saying that she
had to own up to things, and it was really
helpful that you were saying things could be good for
friends to do a check in, because it's like, yeah,
sometimes it's friends. You don't know that you've hurt the
other person. You have no idea, or maybe you think
silent treatment is happening, but the other person is just busy,
but then you don't realize it and there was no
communication and then if you're mad. Yeah, so all have
(12:27):
to say. This is a practice, So the first time
you do it, you might not go all the way
in and say what you really want to say, but
you have If you are somebody that does not do
this kind of stuff, you don't have to spill out
every single thing the first time you do something like this,
you can walk your way through it. And that's why
I like this game that she made, because the questions
are levels, kind of like concrete conversations, where the first
(12:49):
questions ease you into getting vulnerable. Number three, are there
things that you've wanted to share with your friend, hurts, insecurities,
et cetera that you haven't shared that you'd like to
(13:09):
share now? I don't think so. I feel like you
kind of know at all that I'm willing to talk
about here on the podcast. Well, and it also doesn't
have to be like hurts or insecurities that I've caused
as a friend. It's like in your life. Oh no,
I was thinking that in my life. I'm like, I'm
pretty sure I've say on error all the time what
my insecurities are. Ish, yeah, okay, some of them. Okay.
(13:32):
So it does open up opportunity if somebody wants to
talk what they're scared to do it. And then number four,
the most supportive thing a friend can do for you
in this season of life is what? So, what's the
most supportive thing a friend of yours can do in
this season? Not judge me? Okay, why are you judging
me right now? With your eyeballs? I don't have friends
(13:54):
that currently are, but I would just appreciate in this
season of I need grace. I think we all need it,
and I hope that I extend it. That being said,
I think I'm just in a season where I'm worrying
a little bit too much about what other people are
going to think based on some stuff that's happening. I
(14:14):
know that there's going to be some judgment, but I
definitely don't want it from my friends, So that'd be
helpful things like if it's strangers on the internet, that's
one thing. And I think also in that with the
note don't judge me, because that's hard because sometimes judgments
are like automatic. In that too, I think in that
same vein is know that what is best for one
(14:37):
person and what one person might do isn't always best
for everybody. And so even if we're like, oh, we
wouldn't do that, or I wouldn't handle it that way. Hey,
guess what it works for you to handle it this way.
And that's okay, that makes sense totally. I feel like
I had that with the friend that wrote me the note,
Like there's some stuff from like, oh, I don't know
that I would do it this way at all, but
it is literally not not your life, my life at all.
(15:00):
So she's she needs to do that and I have
to be okay with that, and it's cool and it's cool.
You don't have to like it, but I can. I
can support somebody. Yeah, I agree, And I'm sure there's
friends that haven't agreed or supported certain decisions I've made.
But as long you can still you don't, you can
still support, right, got it? Okay, this is the last one.
(15:20):
She every feels meaningful about your friendship and a firm
qualities you appreciate in your friend. Okay, I think that
you are thoughtful and smart and reliable and funny. Okay,
you can stop too much now, I feel like you
and you're like, I don't want to read these emails.
I didn't mean this turned into tell me about tell
(15:41):
me how much you appreciate me as a friend and
all of the good things, and I didn't mean it
to be that. Well, what Cat is referring to I
don't want to read these emails is sometimes I'm reading
emails that you'll send in and there are paragraphs where
I have gratitude for it, but you're gushing about the
podcast in a way to where if I'm reading get Back,
it feels very weird. Look how great everybody thinks? I am? Right?
(16:05):
And part of this is because I know I'm not
that great. Stop it. No, No, I'm not even not
even self self deprecation. I'm not trying to be self deprecating.
I'm just being like, uh, okay, do you ever do
you ever experience this putting your life on a podcast
in a way, or like I have the Bobby Bones
(16:25):
Show and I have this sometimes how I show up
is really how I want to show up, or I
wish I showed up, but some people in my life
haven't had me show up that way, so then they
might listen and she's right or that was not my
experience with her, and then I feel this weird guilt
(16:46):
about it. We're not guilt, but I hear what you're saying.
I guess I don't. I don't have that because I
very much in the podcast and the stuff I talk about,
I don't do all the things that I talked about perfectly,
like I struggle with a lot of it too. But
that's how I experience you of Like you talk about
stuff and like talk about like working on friendships and
stuff like that, but you also talk about how you're
(17:08):
imperfect in all those things too. So I don't have
this expectation of you that you're going to be a
certain way. I feel like you're cool, bars that low, awesome.
That's not what I said. No, no, I said, I don't.
I don't have an expectation. I don't think that you're
putting a persona out in my experience that you are
(17:30):
this awesome, amazing person. And then I get a different version.
I feel like I do get I get a deeper level.
I think then what I might hear if I'm just
listening to the podcast. I don't know the Bobby Bones show.
I don't listen to it in a long time. Yeah,
well that's okay, I get what you're saying. I guess
I'm just talking through right now. It's just the thought
that I don't know that I've ever shared at but
(17:51):
I was just sharing why sometimes it's uncomfortable for me
to read those things because I also don't want it
to come across the kind of like, oh, listen to
these nice words this person is saying about me, which
words of affirmation are my love language, So you can
still include them in the email, but she doesn't always
read that. I'm just not going to read it out loud.
Maybe I might skip over that part. Is that Okay, yeah,
(18:13):
I think it's fine if you want to keep part
of it, but sometimes you need to, I think. But again,
I'm not going to judge you so too it ever
feels right for you, But I think sometimes it's helpful
for you to be able to say, like, hey, like
I do a good job at this, and I help
people feel included and like they belong and they're not alone,
and people are giving me affirmation that I'm doing a
good job of that. They're not saying you're perfect. Remember
(18:35):
that one email said that she liked you faults and all,
oh yeah, you did get an email that did say that.
So before we end this episode, we're going to do
one of these questions. Okay, maybe too so this is
the first thing we did was a check in from
the friendship deck, and then now we're doing questions. So
here's the confusing party. I don't know if this check
(18:55):
in comes with the friendship deck. She sent it in
the box, so I don't if it's part of the game.
The game is just three sets of questions in different
levels of vulnerability. Gotcha help? Friends? You can do it
as a group. This would be great for that. Maybe
not for your neighborhood friends yet, because you guys are
just getting to know what I did concrete conversation, but
(19:16):
I just did level one. Okay, this would be great
for that because there's group questions in here too. This
is a group question, so maybe we can both answer it.
How did you learn about the birds and the bees?
I don't remember. You don't know. My parents did not
talk to me about it well minded either. For one
time I saw them and I can't yes, I no, no,
(19:37):
And this is before they got divorced. But I do.
And it was a Sunday, because I know, we went
to church, and then after church we were sitting in
the living room. My mom said something about if I
had any questions about what I saw and I was like, nope,
because I think it was probably eight or nine years old.
And did you just close the door and walk out? Yeah, yep, Okay,
(20:02):
did you have any questions? No? I didn't ask her
any and I probably I don't know a friend church.
My mom didn't talk to me about anything. She didn't
teach me how to put a tampon in. My friend
in seventh grade had to teach me. Well, I didn't
start in seventh grade. I think I started in ninth grade.
But my friend that I met in seventh grade, who
thankfully was still my friend in ninth grade, showed me.
(20:24):
Thank god, Yeah, go ahead, Well how did you learn? Well? So,
my parents didn't talk about it either. I had a
friend of mine it was in middle school, I think
it was in sixth grade, on the way to a
field trip to the Renaissance Festival. He told me everything,
and I remember sitting there and I literally I looked
(20:45):
at him and I said, why would anybody want to
do that? I just didn't understand it, and shout out Daniel,
that was him. Then I had I had a crush
on him too. I didn't want to do the Birds
and the Bees with him. Now, Okay, what's the best
way to show that you care when you're going through
a hard time? So what's the best way I can
show that I care about you when you're going through
(21:06):
a hard time? Crumble cookies? Yes, honestly, that's my answer.
You know, I knew that that's what you would say,
because those are amazing. But I sometimes retreat. I'm weird,
So I'm going back to weird. I either retreat and
want to be alone, or I want to be with
(21:27):
someone and maybe just watching something, or maybe I want
to walk and talk. It really just depends on what
it is. But what can we do to show that
we care? Is it just check in with you? Is
it text you even if you're not being responsive, send
me multiple choice? Hey, would you a okay? No, that's good,
like too. If you want to crawl into your red
(21:47):
right now and not talk to anybody, that's fine. Be
you want to go on a walk and we can
talk about whatever. See, I want some cookies. D I
want to just watch something and act like nothing none
of this is even happening. Okay, I am not a
I'm so all over the place, So I don't know
(22:08):
going through a hard time to one you might want
something in a different hard time, but also when you're
going through a hard time, it's overwhelming when people are like,
what can I do for you? And you're like, I
don't know. I don't know what I need, and so
if we give you a list, you're like, oh, that
sounds nice. Okay, what about you crumble cookies. But also
when I'm going through a hard time, I don't know
that I show all the time when I'm going through
(22:31):
a hard time, if it's a noticeable hard time, though
I can think of a few Oh yeah, when I
was crying, Yeah that's fine, But now you did You
called me and you just listen to me, and you
were like, okay, you can cry interesting times. I think
that I need people too, Just text me maybe the
(22:51):
same thing. I don't always want to depend on what
it is, but I always don't want to be around people.
And I like talking about things, but then I don't
want to talk about anymore. Okay, next question? What was
your absolute favorite food in middle school? Do you ever
still eat it? Little Debbie swirl cakes? No? What was
like a weird food you used to eat as a
(23:12):
kid Mac and cheese with ketchup? But I still like
that quite honestly. I don't make it as much though,
But I Kraft macaroni and cheese with ketchup inside so good.
Hot pockets, the bagel bites, those are all still delicious,
yeah right, but I don't eat them anymore. I don't
know the last time I had a hot pocket, which
(23:33):
maybe I need to go get one. I actually don't
really want a hot pocket. Those don't sound appetizing. Bagel bites, yes, However,
a food that I ate that was weird. My mom
would pack me bologna and ketchup sandwiches and that sounds disgusting.
Well you must have liked them. I did, but I
would never eat that now it sounds gross. But if
you like it, go for it. Should we go to
(23:54):
a higher level or should we stay with this? Stayed low,
have a good time. Feel like these loans are still
kind of heavy? Last question? What type of texture are you?
Do you tend to overthink when someone has a different
texting style or responsiveness level. If you're friends with Amy,
you might want to listen up what your texting style
(24:16):
might help them understand you more. Oh, I don't know.
Do you ever get overwhelmed? If you're texting with me. No,
your texting style is You've talked about this on the
show before. I feel like when you have your phone
your responsive responsive, and then you put your phone down,
you like put it down, so you might be in
a conversation and you're like, oh blah blah blah, and
then and then stop responding. Two. But it's not personal.
(24:39):
It's just that you put your phone down, and you
do when when you want to get something done you
but then sometimes they can fade away. That happens especially
if I'm if I'm texting during the Bobby Bone Show
or text come in and then it's a song break,
and I have a minute and I start replying, replying, applying,
and then I might go a full another hour with
(25:00):
looking at my computer on my phone because we're doing
stuff and I can't be distracted by my computer on
my phone. But then other text messages come through are
different things, and then that pushes other ones to the bottom.
You're also a big voice memo gal, and I stopped that.
I feel I could potentially be annoying to people, but well,
you can't keep you can't go back, and if you
(25:21):
look at them, that's unless you save them. I appreciate it.
I always can't voice them a bat because I'm in
a place where I don't want to say what I'm
saying out loud. But I actually appreciate it when you're
like driving or some things you're not texting and driving,
and sometimes the things you want to say are long
and it doesn't work as well, or if it's funny,
(25:43):
it just sounds better if it's a quick I like that.
I just need to speak. There's times where I've started
voice memos for people or voice text and then I
record the whole thing and I looked down and it's
like two minutes, and I think, honestly, because then you
have to keep refreshing your phones because then you have
just over if you stop it, it's a whole thing. Okay, Well, um,
I challenge myself to do better, and I shut it
(26:05):
off and I sent it again and it was like
one minute and twenty still too long. Seconds is like
a long voice meno. But I'm not going to judge you,
and whatever works for you, thank you for that. But
I will also work on keeping voice text super short
if I use them. I'm glad we had this conversation. Okay, well,
(26:28):
I love the friendship deck. I think that this is
something super special and people will appreciate it is a gift.
This is a cool gift, I think. Or if you
just get it for relationships in your life, um, and
you can use it at your next girl's night or whatever,
that's fun. We'll have to keep doing the questions and
questions For my favorite part, I didn't so much love
to check in, so we won't check in anymore. Let's
(26:50):
do more questions and as our friendship develops, we can
move to the higher levels. Yeah. I also think if
you are something that works in mental health as a
therapist or something like that, this it's a cool thing
to have in your office to do with clients to
warm them up to getting vulnerable with other people. That's
one of the things I did with my client is
we practice these together and I was like, see it's
(27:10):
not so hard to answer some of these. You can
talk about it. I love it. Okay, Well, we hope
you'll have a great day night, day, morning, have the
day you need to have whenever you're listening to this
and Cat, where can people find you? You can find
me on Instagram at Cat dot de fata and Also,
you can follow the podcast that I have as well
at You Need Therapy podcast, and you can listen to
(27:33):
You Need Therapy wherever you listen to podcasts. So you
have episodes that go up every Monday and Wednesday, right
right right, And then she's here with me for the
fifth thing on Tuesdays. I've got four things on Thursdays,
and Outweigh a podcast dedicated to eating a sort of
recovery on Saturdays. All right, I hope you all are, Yeah,
(27:53):
having the day you need to have already said that. Okay,
gotta go find me on Instagram. Bye,
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