May 11, 2023 • 50 mins
This week on GET REAL Podcast...MICHAEL KAYE!
MICHAEL is the Head of Global Communications for OK CUPID, one of largest dating apps in the world and the ONLY dating app that matches through in-app questions. OK CUPID helps you find matches based on WHO you are and what you LOVE.
IN THIS EPISODE, we talk:
• The current climate of the DATING WORLD
• Dating through a DATING APP
• How to optimize your dating game on OK CUPID
• The BEST dating/relationship ICEBREAKERS
• The value of SOUL CONNECTIONS
You can download OkCupid, HERE!
Listen to MICHAEL KAYE on GET REAL Podcast...NOW!
Connect with MICHAEL:
Michael Kaye - InstagramMichael Kaye - Twitter
OkCupid - Instagram
OkCupid - Facebook
OkCupid - Twitter
OkCupid - TikTok
OkCupid - Website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
At cary Lone. She's a queen of the talking Hey
a song. You know, she's getting really not afraid to
feel taxis so just let it flow.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
No one can do we qud cary Lone is sounding calne.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I'm pretty excited about this interview with Michael Hey, who
is the head of Gulf Goook below bull communications with okay.
Cupid like one of the largest dating apps in the world,
and y'all's app is the only one that like faces
your matches based off like tons of questions that are asked.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You like, do a big survey ahead of time? Is
that right?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I have?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I've always been obsessed with love in dating and I'm
so far out of the loop now because I've been
married forever, but like I cannot wait to hear about
what is happening there.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yeah, so we were the only dating app that matches
you on what matters through in app questions and there's thousands.
They've also been answered more than five hundred million times
last year alone.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Wait, okay, so break that down.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
So when you download a cub it, you have to
answer at least fifteen of our in app questions.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And to answer that.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Okay, so tell me what those questions are, Like, what
are those kind of questions that you're asking?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
How are we setting this stage here?
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Yeah, so the beginning questions are pretty standard. Are you,
how religious are you? What are you looking for in
a partner? Sort of those like really basic questions that
you would expect, how long you want your next relationship
to last, choose a better romantic activity, things like that.
(01:49):
But most people go on to answer dozens and dozens more.
So that's how we connect people. And the more questions
you answer, the more com hatible your matches are going
to be. Because whenever we show you another user on Okaycupid,
you're actually going to see a match percentage with them,
and if you click that match percentage, which is like
(02:10):
my favorite part of the app, you get to see
where you agree and disagree. Because there are certain things
that aren't really that important, like I love coffee and
horror movies, my boyfriend does not. We're going on nine years.
It's pretty much okay. However, there are deal breakers, especially
when it comes to politics and some of the bigger
(02:31):
issues face we're facing today, like climate change, on Black
Lives Matter, and marriage equality. Certain deal breakers for people,
So you get to see what you agree on and
what you disagree on. You also get to rank how
important a question is to you.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh my god, this.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Is another like layer of it that's kind.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Of awesome because they're just saving yourself the trouble. I
feel like this is where dating app would be so helpful,
Like if I was like right before dating apps hit,
but I feel like dating apps would be so help
because now it's not like embarrassing to be on a
dating app.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
It's kind of like the way to date. And now
it's like.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So effective because you can go ahead and just see
the big points that you know are going to be
deal breakers for you. And instead of like going on
three days and trying to like slowly get to know
someone and like tell your story and what matters to you,
you can just see, Okay, let's just skip to the
heart of the matter here. Do we even have anything
in common in the first place, And if we have
these massive things that are deal breakers, let's not even
(03:28):
like start this process one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
And honestly, like some of those questions are a little
bit divisive and honestly sometimes boring, So we want to
make sure that before you even get to drinks or
coffee or a walk in the park. Whenever y'all are doing.
We give you enough information about the person that you
can make a decision ahead of time whether you want
to meet with them or not. So we kind of
like strip that part of the date away for you. Yeah,
(03:54):
they're also busy, like we don't want to waste our time.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I want to go through some of these questions. You
sent me this on some of the questions and maybe
you know them that are the most important questions for
like the people dating right now, and they were so great.
So here's some of these questions that people are asking
on the dating app, which I think is so cool
and ten billion responses to okay cupids in app.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So people are all about y'all. Are y'all the biggest
dating up out there?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
We are not, but we're one of the ogs. I mean,
we've been around for almost twenty years at this.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Okay, So y'all got something working. Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So here's the questions in twenty two that were the
most answered new questions.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Okay, So who comes up with these questions? Do you
come up with these questions?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yours truly? So I am sitting at my desks, pretending
to work but really just having fun adding in new questions. Basically,
if I'm talking about something with my friends or my
coworkers or I don't know whomver, it's probably something daters
want to talk about. So that's what really inspires our questions.
(04:58):
We want them to be conver station starters, we want
them to be deal breakers. We want we use them
actually to make the experience like so much better. So
it's real people in their twenties thirties who are like
asking all these questions or adding all these questions to
the app, which is really fun.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
But okay, Michael, Like, do you realize the impact you're
having on people like you coming up with these questions
that ten billion people are answering or I don't know
how many the number is whatever, Like so many people
on the app are answering these questions, Like you are
helping to shape so many relationships, and you're putting such
thoughtful questions out into the app, which is awesome, Like,
(05:36):
I this is so cool. Like I hope you know
how influential you are. Okay, so the questions are are
you sensitive? Love that? Like?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
These are the top questions answered on that are you sentimental.
So people are wanting to be sensitive and sentimental like
they're wanting. They don't want just like some hot stud
or beautiful woman.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
They want their people are after the heart of the
matter here.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Absolutely, and again I mean there obviously has to be
mutual physical attraction that's never really going to go away.
But when I've been at the brand for almost four
years at this point, and when I first joined in
twenty nineteen, I looked at some of the most popular
questions from that year, like what questions that year were
people answering the most, and a lot of them were
(06:20):
around if you like coffee dates, if you like cuddling,
like really high level things. Then we got slammed with
the global pandemic and everyone took a moment to take
a step back, take a break from dating, learn more
about themselves, and figure out like what's important to them,
and we saw a huge shift in the most popular questions.
(06:44):
So one of the things that I looked into at
the beginning of this year in twenty twenty three was
and this was around the fiftieth anniversary of Robi Wade,
but I wanted to know what questions were women asking
or answering the most this year, what's really top of
mind for them from the past year. And those questions
were not about coffee dates. They were should the government
(07:07):
defund planned parenthood? Are you pro choice? Is mental health
as important as physical health? They were answering questions about
self love and global warming and you know, discussing mental
health with a partner. So we've seen a big shift
in dating behaviors over the years, and I think a
(07:28):
shift in a in a really positive direction too.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
It's almost like this new generation of dating is so
much more intentional, Like it's like they've seen like the
sex drug rock and roll, getting drunk dating, hooking up,
not really getting deep with all the information right off
the back kind of play out, and it's.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Like they're sort of like evolved beyond.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
It feels like, do you feel that like this new generation,
like it's so much more than just that instant attraction.
It's like, no, it is so much There are so
many other things lay which obviously that all shakes out
when you get into a relationship, but you realize all
these other things at play. But it just feels like
this new generation is a lot smarter to go ahead,
and they know what they believe in a lot younger.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It feels like maybe.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
You I think what people are looking for has changed,
what they're prioritizing has changed, what they're talking about has changed.
So in one thing we've seen, which I actually really love,
is that discussions around mental health had become a huge
turn on for daters. We're seeing that more than nine
to ten daters on okay keep its say they're sensitive,
(08:34):
and this is really paying off for people, especially men.
So historically this was not something men were and probably
straight men were really interested in talking about. But last year,
men who said they are sensitive on okaykeep It received
one hundred and seven percent more likes and eighty six
percent more matches. They also had one hundred and thirteen
(08:57):
percent more conversations than men who we're an admitting that
they were sensitive at all. So this is something that historically,
I would argue was seen as a weakness in men
when we look at traditional gender roles. Now is one
of the most attractive traits in men.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Do you think people are players on okay keep it?
Like once a guy figures out that his like percent
and just go way up once he says he's sensitive
and has all this like heartfelt stuff, but really he's
just an asshole, like trying to like trick girls. I'm
just kidding.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
No, we're we an't have good daters, I of course,
like of absolutely. The good news is only you and
I are looking at that data, so they can't see
that on the app. Okay, okay, we have to keep
that between us.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Okay, well y'all listening. Don't tell anybody. Okay, this is
just so fascinating. So how do people like to date?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Now?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And it's also like talking about like cooking up? Are
people like cooking up right away? And you're saying people
like to do like walking dates, like people aren't spending
the money. There's a lot more sober dating, like what
is the climate of a date now? Like how do
people go on a date? Like how do you take
it from the dating app to the date?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
What?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And how does it advance? Like how do can you
date more than one person at a time? I know
you're saying too like people are a lot more open
with having like open ethically open relationships, Like what does
that mean?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
The kind of tell me? Like what happens next?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Like you get on this app, you match up, you
have you can really determine what you have in common.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But then like, how do you how does dating look?
What's the what's the steps?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
There's so much to unpack there.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I know.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Sorry, I'm going to go through like I'm just gonna
like walk myself through the life stage. So first, when
you're like on a dating app, you can probably assume
at this point we're very data driven and Okaycupan, no surprise.
We were actually founded by four math majors at Harvard,
so we've always been very data driven. And one thing
(10:57):
we started asking our dats recently was what is the
best icebreaker? What do you want someone to open up
with on a dating app? Because that's a question I
get all the time, is like I don't want to
say hey or hi. So if we look first at
the first conversation you have on a dating app, we
asked what the best icebreaker was, and we had about
(11:18):
four and a half million to respond to this question already,
so it's not a small sample size. Thirty percent said
they really prefer when a data opens up with a
simple introduction, So tell them a little bit more about yourself.
You don't have to open with paragraphs and paragraphs of
information and overwhelm them. But you have to put more
effort into hay or high and just on that note
(11:39):
and opening up with hey or hello or hi actually
has like a seventy or eighty percent rate of being ignored.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So yeah, I feel like that someone because even if,
like on Instagram, if someone writes the message and it's
like hey, it's like I have no desire whatever you
want to talk about, not interested.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
It's nothing to feed off of another thirty percent, like
when people ask the question twenty percent. Like when you
open with a joke, I think this is so subjective
because like what if you don't have the same humor,
So like that one honestly makes me nervous, But it's
the data. That's what the data shows, right, God.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Opening with a joke on a dating app like what
a joke goes wrong?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
So literally the dating you're dating on the app first,
But you really have to put your full effort into
dating because like right when dating apps took off, before
I got out of the dating world, like it was
still people are kind. I'm not in a dating app.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I'm too cool for dating app all that stuff, But
now that's not it. So it's like people give their
full effort right away, Like, you need to take this
app seriously. People take it seriously because this is how
you date now, Like, really, it's totally work. Yeah, you
really got to give it your best shot all the time.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
You absolutely and eight percent of people like when you
mentioned something on their profile. But to what you just said, work,
Like I people are a little bit shocked when I
say this because I think they expect me to say
online dating is super easy. You can do it in
your sleep. That's not the case. It's I like to
think of it as a part time job. What you
(13:12):
put into apt like okaycup it or Hinge or Tinder,
whatever your app of choice is, that's exactly what you're
going to get out of it. If you were not engaged,
if you are disinterested, you're going to attract people who
are not taking datings seriously, who are not really feeling it.
I also tell people, if you're not a mindset to date,
take a break. Either just don't open your app, or
(13:34):
write in your bio that you're taking a quick break,
or delete the app altogether. You have to have to
be in the mindset to start dating.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Man, that's so interesting, and this just goes back to
the law of attraction in general, and it just applies everywhere,
even on a dating app, Like you have to you
get back what you put in.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
If you are really looking to have a relationship and
you really want to have someone that you align with
and you really have core values that you know are
important to you, like, you can go out there and
find it on the app.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
If you work hard enough and like you like you know,
and you find other people who are working hard to
match because they really want to be with someone, You're
gonna at least get good interactions. You know, You're going
to at least meet with people that you can like,
have a good conversation with, and then if you do
that enough, you'll probably land on someone that you really
dee with. You know, is okay keepid is it like
(14:25):
cause I know, like Tinder or Hinde or something of
like I don't know, grinder with like the hookup app
or something like what are y'all known for? Because like
some people are like, oh, you just get on a
grinder if you want to like hook up?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Like what if people say about okay, keupid? What is
y'alls like? Vibe? Get on okay? Keep it? If you
want to get.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Married, So we definitely bring in a higher inten dator
and our product is designed to do that. So you
can't just download our app and upload a photo and
throw in your name and start seeing people. We really
make you put in work. You have to add multiple photos,
you have to respond to multiple proms, you have to
answer at least fifteen of our questions. We want to
(15:02):
make sure that it takes you a bit of time
to set up your profile, so that you're being more mindful,
and that the people coming into the app usually are
people who are going to take dating more seriously. They're
not you know, whatever you want to do, whether that's
like Saturday night or Saturday night for the rest of
your life, that's fine with us. But we do want
to bring in a dater that's a bit more mindful,
(15:23):
that is taking dating and relationships a bit more seriously.
So that's how our app is designed. It's definitely not
the easiest to just like download and start dating.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Okay, I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Okay, So let's go back to unpacking that giant, big
ball question I asked you earlier.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Oh yes, yeah, So one of the things you mentioned
which I find so interesting and something we recently looked
into is how much people are spending on a date.
So we're seeing that the economy is definitely having an
impact on how people are dating. They're definitely still dating,
but about four and ten of our daters are saying
(16:03):
globally that, you know, what's happening in the economy, they're
definitely feeling it. And we're seeing that a majority of
people actually want to spend less than fifty dollars on
a first date, and women are fifty seven percent more
likely to want to spend less than fifty dollars on
a first date. I actually don't think this is a
bad thing. I don't think this is people being cheap.
(16:25):
I say this as an opportunity for you to be
really creative. Dinner, drinks, shore, fun, movie dates like that's
an inexpensive date. Wouldn't recommend that for a first date
because there's not a lot of conversation that's happening.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
And a little awkward because then you should have to sit
there in silence next to someone.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's like, do we kind of hold hands? Do we not?
I don't know. You know, you need to have some
interaction on the first few dates. I feel like you
need to be moving.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I actually really like going for a walk or something.
It's less pressure.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
You don't have to get dress up, and you don't
have to eat in front of someone like I feel
like I remember like when I was dating, I always
thould be so awkward eating in front of someone in
the beginning. You know, like you don't want to have
to be like because I really want need to cheeseburger
with Rise and get a little messy with it. But
like you're not going to do that on a first date, you.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Know, no, you I mean, you can't have anything that's
like too saucy. You can't have anything that's like going
to get stuck in your teeth. There's like too many worlds.
But I also, I'm like very into like a low
pressure first date. So if you go on a walk,
like I live in New York City, so I'm thinking
Central Park right now, and you're not feeling it and
(17:30):
you're like, eh, I'm ready for this to be over.
You have the easiest out. You can just say, hey,
I'm walking this way. It was great catching up, great
meeting you, so great pressure.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
That is a wonderful first date because yeah, you're stretching
your legs. You're kind of seeing how someone moves, like honestly,
how someone physically moves and interacts with the world like
you have. You kind of have to like vibe with that,
you know. So there's so much so and then you
can get out if you want. You need to have
an escape plan for sure.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Totally. I mean, and that like a walking date is
something that's completely sober. And we're seeing that young dators
are really causing an increase in so dating. In twenty twelve,
so about ten years ago, eighty four percent of singles
on Okay Keep It said they were open to dating
someone who doesn't drink alcohol, but that actually jumped really
(18:23):
high to ninety six percent of respondents in twenty twenty two.
So we are definitely seeing this becoming a trend, and
it's really driven by millennials and gen Zers, but specifically
gen z. They're the ones saying, I don't need to
be drinking on a date. I want to do something
that doesn't involve alcohol. So that's like one of the
(18:45):
trends we're seeing that generation drive. We're also seeing them
drive a trend in not being in such a rush
to sleep around. And this was actually something that I
found really interesting when we were looking at the data
that gen zers or gen z daters were the generation
(19:06):
that was most likely to want to get to know
someone first, and they were taking more time than millennials
to move the relationship into a physical space more quickly.
So that was something nice to see as well and interesting.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
The new generation doesn't just want to sleep around, doesn't
just want to get drunk, doesn't just want to be
physically attracted to someone and have adventures.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
They actually want to have a connection.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
They want to talk about mental health, They want to
align with someone mentally, physically, spiritually, and like in their
beliefs in the world, and they want it to be
like a real full connection more than before.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
It feels like that's a top priority.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And because of dating app you really can do that
more quickly. It can use the apps to their highest
and best advantage, which you can with something like Okay KEEPID.
You really can set yourself up for good dates and
it might not be like I was kind of saying earlier,
it might not be like one, but like you can
(20:14):
set yourself up to have an enjoyable date with someone
that you at least you know you're aligning with on
a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah, people, I think people are looking you said this earlier,
like there's people are being more intentional about their dating
and they're kind of they're not deep prioritizing, you know,
that physical attraction, but they really are prioritizing compatibility. They're
certain things that are just deal breakers or deal makers
(20:42):
for people, and they're that's what's like top of their
list right now.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
That that makes me feel inspired and hopeful, and that
makes me feel like we're getting a little bit over
the hump of this, the big surge of technology like
Instagram and dating apps and all this connection to everyone.
Like when it all came out in the beginning, it
was so much and people didn't quite know how to
handle it.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
But I feel like maybe now people are realizing how
to use how the good way to utilize all these
apps in the negative way. You know.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
It's like you can use a dating app to really
have a great experience, or you can use it because
you just want to hook up and sleep around and
do whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And that's fine.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
But it's like people are now it's saying thing on
like Instagram, like it used to be like a comparison
hole and like TikTok, and like you would feel bad
about yourself. But now it's like people are actually making
useful videos and people you can learn stuff and you
can like teach people things and it can be elevating
at the same time, you know, I feel like now
maybe it's like sifting.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Out enough where it's not like, oh my god, this
is just all bad or this is just all good.
It's like, oh, okay, you can actually have a really
healthy experience here.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
One hundred percent. There's definitely a culture shift. We've obviously
seen it on okaycup It, but to your point, I'm
seeing that on Instagram, I'm seeing it on LinkedIn, I'm
definitely seeing it on TikTok. The type of content that
I saw on all those platforms three years ago is
completely different than what I'm seeing today. Even LinkedIn, I
(22:10):
see such vulnerability and emotion in everyone's posts and it's
really uplifting. So a lot of these platforms, which I
think got a really bad rap and you know, they're
called toxic at times, they've been really helpful and I
think people are building communities on all these different platforms
(22:31):
and were I mean, we're saying that I'm Okay, keep
it as well.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I think it's just it's like with anything with a
pendulum swing, you just it takes a little time to
like figure it out and to figure out how to
like use.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It to the best way that you can.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
But like I'm sitting here listening to what you're saying
and thinking about how I was when I was dating.
Oh my god, Michael, I was a freaking tornado. Like
I was just like trying to make out with everybody
that I had a connection with, and like I wanted
to fall so deeply in life, but like I didn't
even know how to get to those big questions right away.
And then it's just like it was like a mess,
(23:05):
which I was just like it was just a disaster.
I mean it was fun, but like I think I
could have really done a better job with And I
love my husband and I'm so thankful I ended up
where I did and he's the best and we're it's amazing,
thank God, Like we found each other through the.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Mess of dating. But like I feel like, Okay, Cupid.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Really could help you clean it up a little bit,
like and just not have to be a dumpster fire
of ating dedating dating disaster. Maybe I mean, you still can,
and I'm sure dating is still hard no matter how
you slice it. But I feel like the app is
the way to go. Like, if you're not on an
app at this day and age, you're really missing out.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I think you you definitely have to be on an app.
That's where most people are really going to be meeting another,
you know, a romantic partner. I also think it's important
to choose the right app for you. Yeah, there's going
to be people who come to Okay Cupan and say,
I'm not really getting what I want out of this.
There a disconnect, just like we're going to see people
turn to Tinder and say the same thing or hand.
(24:04):
So figure out before you go on any of these apps.
Figure out what you're looking for in a partner, what
you're looking for in a relationship, and then find that
app that is going to really match that match your
values and your beliefs. There are so many dating apps
out there you can find the one for you, and
most people are on multiple at a time, So try
a few different ones out.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
What do you love about Okay keep It? What do
you love about working there?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
What do you love about the company, Like, what has
you been there a long time, right.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Yeah, almost four years. I would say the brand itself
is so aligned with my personal values.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Can talk to me about your values, talk to me
about the values of okaykeepit, which are yours?
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, so Okaycupid has well I identify as gay for
anyone who has not figured that out yet spoiler alert.
But I am also on the board of the Human
Rights Campaign, so I am part of the community. I
advocate for my own community. Okay keep It has been
introducing features specifically designed for LGBTQ plus users for years
(25:11):
and it's still the small, like a very moll cohort
of people who are on our app. But it's so
important to the company, which I think tells a lot
about the brand too, that they're saying, you know what,
this isn't going to serve ninety eight percent of our users,
but we're going to do this anyway because the people
that it does serve, it's going to make such a
strong impact. So Okay keep It was the first to
(25:32):
expand gender and orientation options, the first I add a
pronouner to profile they have in app. I talked about
our questions all the time. We actually have questions specifically
for LGBTQ plus people that were written by queer people,
and even within our own community, we're not all the same.
So there are questions for bisexual people, questions for gay people,
(25:56):
and that's something I, you know, I have always loved about.
And you know, a few months ago, I thought, Okay,
when's the first time they actually added a question for
a queer person?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
You know?
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Was it when it became a trending topic? And it
was actually two thousand and four, the year the company
launched the app. So like that, just like further made
me love this company that much more. And from a
product perspective, I love that it's designed in a way
that tailors the experience to people all around the world.
(26:28):
So and again we do that with our question. So
if you're dating in Nashville or New York City or
San Francisco, questions you see are going to be different
than if you're dating in London or Tel Aviv or
Mumbai or whatever city you're in around the world because
we have localized questions in over thirty countries, because we
(26:48):
know every culture is different.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Wow, So y'all really put in some time to set
people up for success.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
We yes, like we don't want you to be on
the app forever. No one wants to get on a
dating app where they don't know anybody who's meant on it.
So we want you to find success. We want to
give you all the tools that you that is going
to make your experience better. I mean, we even have
something called iqpid that is personal to you. So you
(27:17):
see it. You see this dashboard. No one else is
going to see your dashboard, and it gives you tips
on how to optimize the app to get a better experience. So,
like one of those tips is filling out every detail
on your profile.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Oh, let's do how to Let's do how to Okay?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
How to optimize your dating experience on okay Cupid. How
do you go on okay Cupid and set yourself up
for the most success to win the dating game.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Well, first is filling out everything we tell you too
on your profile, because once you do that, people who
have a complete profile get two hundred percent more matches
than people who are leaving things blank.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
So take it seriously, do the work.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
There's other tips and tricks like the amount of photos
you should include, which are at least five to six,
the amount of like characters, that you should include in
your summary section. But one tip that I'll give that
actually works for any dating app, so whether that's Hinge
or Tinder or Match or okaycup it. And I found
this fascinating. I learned it from our data science team
(28:23):
when I first joined the company. So it's an insider trick.
Every three to four weeks, so about once a month,
you need to change things on your profile. Delete one
or two photos and add one or two new ones,
and change a few of the responses the prompts that
you're answering. So if you're on Hinge and you're answering
(28:44):
a few prompts, change some of those. Same with okaycup It.
What's going to happen is the app is actually going
to get confused and it's going to see all this
activity happening on your profile, and it's going to say, oh,
this is a brand new user, and it's going to
boost you and show you to even more profiles. So
(29:04):
that's a trick I always tell friends to do, like
once a month.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Oh okay, so insider trick. Okay, So then answer answer
all the prompts, which I love that you guys ask
all the things like are you sensitive you talk about
like politics, beliefs, all of it, the big topics, y'all
ask the big questions. So answer all the questions, change
it up, and then how do you stay Like how
(29:31):
do you stay moving on it? How do you stay
getting the good people come in your way? Like how
do you like how do you interact? You need to
be writing people like is it good to reach out
to people first? And you were saying earlier like don't
reach out with just a hey, reach out with like
a joke, oh, which would freak me out, But like
you know, just like reach out, have a good have
a good entry point to like talk to some like
how do you like make the first move?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Like how do you take it to the next step?
Like how do you keep it going?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Well, first, be really mindful about what you're putting into
your profile. Well, that's actually the most important piece because
it's your first impression. That's when people learn about you
before they even start talking with you. So the one
tip I have, or one of the tips I have
for that is always be positive with anything you write
a profile proms, I'll open friends dating apps with them,
(30:17):
and I'll scroll past profiles with them. And the biggest
turn off I see is someone saying swipe left if
and it's just so negative. I think it's really important
that we all have those things that are important to us.
But instead of focusing on your deal breakers, I have
to tell people to highlight their deal makers.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
So it's just.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
About repositioning what you're putting out there in a more
positive way. And then also make lists when you're filling
out your profile and you're responding to different prompts, list
books that you're reading, or restaurants you want to go to,
vacations you want to go on, songs on your Spotify list.
What this is going to do is it's going to
give someone something that they can respond to. And you
(31:02):
want to do this with your photos too, Like you
don't want to upload five different selfies. You want to
upload a photo of you at the Taylor Swift concert
or running a marathon or on vacation. That's going to
give someone a conversation starter in a really easy way,
because people need help with that opening message. So those
are like the profile tips that I love to get people.
(31:25):
And then also kind of have a.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Well rounded picture, like not like what about like bikini pictures.
I feel like that was the thing, is that still cool?
Do you want to put your body up there?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Is it more like put your full experience, not just
that you got you know, some nice boods.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
I mean, if you're comfortable with that, I say absolutely,
go and do it. But make sure there's a diverse
mix of photos, because again, being attractive, having someone who's
attracted to you, that's definitely going to draw them in
maybe for the first half a second, but after that
there needs to be substance. There needs to be something
(32:00):
that's going to keep them hooked and interested. So even
if it's you in a bikini, what are you doing?
Are you on vacation? You know, give a little bit
more color to what you're interested in.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, I have a point to Okay, So that's great
with the profile picture, in the in the profile tagline.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Then what's next.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
When it comes to messaging them for the first time.
We talked about like the icebreakers that are resonating well
with people. But one thing I just want to add
to that is women should definitely feel comfortable making the
first move, and we have data that backs up that
it's more successful for them. So one thing we saw
(32:38):
during the pandemic was that on okay Cupid, women were
sending the first message more than they ever were in
our eighteen year history. I think they said, you know
f it, I'm at home, I'm on a couch, I
know what I'm looking for, and I'm not going to
wait for a princh charming to come and knock on
my door or message me on a dating app. If
(33:00):
I want to talk to someone, I'm going to go
talk to them.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
And yes, I love that.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Conversations that are initiated by women last significantly longer on
Okaycuepan than conversations that are started by men. So go
out there, put yourself out there and send that first message.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Oh I love that, Okay, And like you said, is
there a specific kind of message to send?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Some people do a joke.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Some people say, hey, I saw your prope, I saw
your picture. I like that you are love to go
to the beach. Like is it just like you just
kind of start with something obvious.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I would say, start with anything that's like a conversation starter.
So give a little bit more about yourself or kind
of what you're looking for, think about why you're on
the dating app, and you can open up with that
as well. I like to I think questions are the
best way to start. Maybe like add an opening sentence
to that question, But I think questions are a great
(33:53):
conversation starter because before they're even going to dissect your
question or panic about what to say, the most natural
thing is going to be respond to that question, and
then you have a conversation starting.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
H I love that, Okay, And then talked to you
about the metaverse. What's happening? Will people date on the metaverse?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
What is? What does that mean? So?
Speaker 4 (34:15):
I think the jury is still out with that. Is
it that like gen z are most interested in exploring
the metaverse compared to millennials, compared to Gen xers. But basically,
how you would date in the metaverse is going to
a platform which you put.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
On like a you put on like a headset.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yes, or you don't actually don't even have to do that.
You create an avatar, so like a character of yourself
or who you want to be. You go to another platform.
This is there's no metaverse on, Okay, keepit, but you
can go. I like to think of it as like gaming.
That's like the easiest way for me to think about it.
Character when you're gaming and you're interacting with with other people.
(35:01):
So just like you're interacting with other gamers, you can
interact with other dats not for me, not my jam.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
So people will go in there and create an avatar?
And can does it have to be a human? Can
it be like a superhuman?
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Could be a superhuman man?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
This is wild? God gosh, I'm getting old.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I'm really starting to get old because I'm like, what
is all this stuff that young people are doing?
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Like, my head can't grasp it. My brain's not like
my bandwidth isn't big enough to understand it.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
I'm with you, honestly, I was like, what is TikTok
at the being of the pandemic?
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I know?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
But now you're probably like the TikTok king, aren't you?
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Maybe the TikTok watching king. I'm not cool enough to
be posting.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
But you understand stuff because like for you understand, I
feel like you understand trends, you understand what's happening, You
understand climate and culture, Like are you just taking stuff in?
Is that? Do you kind of just gather information all
the time.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
I feel like I'm constantly digesting what's happening in pop culture,
in society, in I have to pay attention to like
politics and the economy, and because everything that's around us
that winds up inspiring the questions we ask on our app.
So I have to understand and what's top of mind
for people in general in the US and in the
(36:19):
UK and Israel and Germany and all these different markets
that we're marketing in.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
So you have to you have to understand it for
every market. Yeah, does that mean you go travel to
these other countries where okay Cupid is and like you like,
do case study or how do you get your information?
Do you just travel on TikTok?
Speaker 4 (36:37):
So? I haven't yet because most of the time that
I've been at Okaycupan has been during a pandemic. Fun
but I have amazing partners in each of these markets
on the ground. So every every week I'm talking talking
to partners who are Israeli, British, Australian, Turkish, German, and
(36:59):
we're collaborating on what we should be asking, what we
should be saying on social what content we should be creating.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
So okay, so your job role is creating the questions
in the app and then creating the content to let
people know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
In the app is that your you, just you are
the heart and the soul in expressed form of what
okay keep it stands for.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
I like to think of myself like the core pillar
of my job is basically storytelling. I'm telling stories and media.
We're telling stories on social working with influencers to help
tell stories. So storytelling is that like common thread through
everything that I do.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
What is inspiring you about dating these days and making
you feel discouraged about dating these days?
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Ooh, that's such a good question. I would say a
lot of the trends that we talked about are what's
inspiring me. Seeing how active and vocal our daters are
when it comes to Black Lives Matter and climate change
and LGBTQ plus rights and reproductive healthcare. That's just it's
(38:11):
so inspiring to see because we are, you know, seeing
how people are responding to questions about these topics. We're
the only dating app that introduced a Black Lives Matter
profile badge, the only dating app that introduced an I'm
pro choice badge in response to what we've seen happen
in the US. So our daters actually keep me really
(38:32):
inspired every single day. What's discouraging probably people complain about dating.
People love to complain about dating. I hear complaints every
single day about not just dating apps, but like dating
culture in general. That kind of just comes with the job.
(38:53):
And then anytime I hear a friend or maybe a
dater that DMS me about an experience. Anytime I hear
someone get ghosted, that's really discouraging because there's no reason
to do it. I like, you don't have to end
something with someone in person if you don't feel comfortable
after especially after first few dates, but you can just
(39:16):
text them or message them on the app and let
them know that you're not feeling it. So that's discouraging
because there's no reason for it, and it feels down
on the other side.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Okay, I love that. So where do you think dating
is going to be in the next like decade.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
I think we're probably going to build off a lot
of the trends we're seeing now in that tall, dark,
and handsome is going to be so far forgotten in
what people are looking for again. Still, I don't think
we'll ever lose that attraction piece, but it's not going
to be anywhere near the top of people's list, and
(39:53):
we're going to become even more mindful in how we're dating,
and that makes me hopeful too.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It's even like I have a three year old daughter,
and so we we're watching a lot of Disney movies
right now. Like I don't like playing the old Disney
movies like Sleeping Beauty and Snow White and Cinderella. It's
like all of those movies set up this maiden in
distress to be saved by the tall, dark and handsome prince,
(40:22):
and I'm like, oh, oh.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I can't do it. And I like love those movies
growing up, but I'm like the messaging is just not right.
So it's like the.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
New movies, like I feel like even seeing it in Disney,
it's changing, like how people are viewing their roles and
what a relationship is. Like with Encanto, it's like you
know and like uh mawana, and it's like women are
strong and capable and it's not all about having someone
save you and having like the.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Tall, dark and handsome prince ride in. It's like, no,
let's not do that anymore. Like yes, let's be attracted,
but we don't. No one needs to be saved.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
We all need to be like working together and healing
ourselves and then becoming a stronger team together. I feel
like it's shifting in general, Like the awareness of what
a relationship could and should be is elevating.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Absolutely. And those are also two of my favorite movies.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
In Conto and Mawana.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
Yeah, I'm like a child still me too.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I could watch them all the time.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
I'd literally all the New Disney movies I love and I.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Like watch the old oh good, but the old ones.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I don't know if you've watched the old ones. If
you watch the old ones in comparison to the new ones,
like the way the storylines are changing, it's it's huge,
It's like a drastic change.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Yeah. I haven't like, really rewatched the old ones for
quite some time, although there was literally a week during
the pandemic that I watched Mawana five times in one week.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
It's the best movie of all time. Yeah, my favorite.
Do you like that part with the crab is singing
and he's like, did you like my song? It's like myself,
I freaking love one. It's so good man, Michael, You're
so fun. What are you loving in life these days?
What's bringing you joy?
Speaker 4 (42:11):
Soul cycle? That's my therapy? Okay, I need. I need
to go like four or five times a week. It's
how I remain calm and grounded and collected. And then
also reading books like hardcover not tablets. I'm a big reader.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
What are you reading right now?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
I right now am reading Every Value Break by Peter Swanson,
So I'm really into like mysteries and thrillers.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Every Value Break Okay, okay.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
It's very good so far.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well, you're just so fun.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
What's it?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
And I have like two more questions than a wrap up?
What's it like to be living in New York? Like
you're in the city of all the action, but yet
now we've come out of this pandemic, everything's changed. I
feel like all the big cities don't quite have the
same like beautiful, glamorous vibe they used to have, but
still in my heart, I feel like they do.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I don't know what's it like to be a young, sophisticated,
in love guy in your prime in New York City
right now? What is that vibe?
Speaker 4 (43:16):
I think it's just as magical as pre pandemic. Because
I'm a New Yorker born and raised, so my parents
are Brooklyn born. I grew up right outside New York City.
I went to college in like the middle of New York,
and I've been working in New York City since twenty fourteen.
(43:37):
So New York will always be so incredibly special to me.
Even when I travel, I'm always so excited to come
back here.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
So the magic is still a full force.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Yeah, it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Has it changed since the pandemic or is it kind
of back to normal?
Speaker 4 (43:55):
I think it's back to normal. I would say probably
twenty twenty one actually is when it started to feel
more normal. But yeah, I think it's I don't feel
any like lingering impacts of the pandemic personally. Of course,
there's been businesses that I've shot, but there's also been
(44:17):
a ton of businesses that have emerged as well.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Right, Like the online world has like really blown up.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Yeah, so I think the magic's still here. Definitely encourage
people to come visit.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Okay, good, because that New York to me is like
one of the greatest cities ever. Just I mean even
just like going being able to go to a Broadway play,
you know, it's just like what you can do in
New York is so spectacular. I always wrap up with
one question and Michael, you are just such a fascinating
person to talk to. You have such like a pulse
on what's happening in the world. It's so easy to like,
(44:49):
I'm like, what, fifteen.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Years out of dating, so I'm kind of far out
of dating, but it's like so easy to like get
out of what's happening.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
And like, I literally look at all the young people
all the time, and I'm like, what, how are you
navigating this? What's going on out there?
Speaker 3 (45:03):
So like just to know from an insider perspective, like yourself,
what dating really is these days, how people are doing it,
how to succeed with it, how to use these apps
to the best of your advantage, and how not to
be like I mean, I guess people really aren't like
embarrassed of being online anymore on apps, Like that's like
a normal thing, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Although when I met my boyfriend, we met on Tinder
in twenty fourteen, and I had only known about Tinder
for maybe three months at that point, and I remember
the first time I heard it. I was away with
friends and one of my guy friends is meeting up
with a girl that he met on Tinder, and I
thought that is so weird. That you're meeting up with
(45:46):
a strainer in a new city that you met on
an app. And now it's so much more normalized that
I'll be out with friends or friends will go out
and let me know things that happened and they'll be like,
oh my god, this guy was so creepy out the
bar and I'm like, well, what happened And she's like, well,
I don't know him, and he came up and said
hi to me. So there's like such a like course.
(46:09):
Now I'm fascinating.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Because before the only way to talk to someone is
a random guy to come up and talk to you
at a bar, or not the only way, but that
was like one of the main ways. So now that's
actually considered kind of like invasive and gross.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah you see, like a swap that's so wild.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
So like the way that people used to do it
is now like a total turn off and disgusting. It's creepy.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
Yeah, so weird.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I always wrap up with leave your light. And it's
just a super open ended question, especially like with you
and dating and understanding all this and the culture. What
do you want people to know?
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Ooh, I want people to know something. I tell myself
that You are enough exactly how you are, and for
anything good that happens in your life, you deserve it.
You are not lucky, you earned it. So whether that's
having a seat at the table, being part of a
(47:10):
certain room, you are there for a reason. So you
are enough and you deserve all the good coming your way.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Love that love that so good.
Speaker 4 (47:22):
I'm so gay.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
You're the one behind all the questions for the dating
app because you have such a sweet, beautiful soul, Michael,
and I love that you're putting that out into the
world with the people trying to find their own love stories.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Yes, positive vibes.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
So where can everyone get involved with Okaycupid?
Speaker 3 (47:40):
If people want to follow along with you? Just what's
all the information we need to know to keep up
with this conversation?
Speaker 4 (47:45):
You can follow and keep up with okaycuep it at
Okaycupid on Instagram and Twitter and TikTok. And you can
find me at Michael kPr on Instagram and Twitter and
feel free to DM me with any dating questions you have,
advice you need or if you just want event. I
am there for you.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Oh my god, You're so nice.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
So you actually respond to people and will like take
their questions and answer them and give good feedback.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
Yes, I had one guy a couple months ago was
dming me like paragraphs for about forty minutes on my
commute to work, and we were going back and forth
about this experience. He it wasn't even a girl he
met on Okay Cupid. It was a woman he met
in his like town, but he just like needed to
talk to someone. So I'm there for you.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
So kind of generous of you to give your energy
that way. That is so nice.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Michael Okay, So y'all have questions, y'all hit Michael up.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
He said, doors are open. I love that you are
such a kind, amazing soul. This was so fun to
hear about this, and I appreciate you enlightening me because
I now am like, oh, I mean I really am.
I'm like old, Like I like the music I like.
Now I'm like all these new artists coming out, I'm like,
who are these? And like I was like, oh, I
will never become old like my parents, and they just
(49:04):
like don't stay hip with stuff, and I'm like, yeah,
it's just I'm out of the loop. I don't know
how to stay in the loop anymore. It's a big
loop to stay in.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
I'm in the same boat. I also teach. I teach
at New York University, and my students will talk about
things and I'm like, who is that? What is that trend?
So they keep me young too.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
But how does how do they all know about the
new person?
Speaker 4 (49:26):
Like?
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Are they how do they all have the same Are
they all like watching the same TikTok pages? Or like,
I just don't know how they all know the same stuff.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
We're old, We're old.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
That's it. That's what I finally accepted.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
I'm like, it's like a full time job to stay
current with who's out there, and I just don't have
that desire anymore.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Sadly, Oh but it's true. So thank you for updating
me on what's going on in the dating world, because
I've been curious about it, and I'm sure a lot
of people are and this was such interesting information.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
Of course, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Well, you have a wonderful day and a great weekend,
and maybe I'll see you out there in a wild
world one day.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yes, Okay, bye Michael.
Speaker 4 (50:05):
Bye.
At cary Lone. She's a queen of the talking Hey
a song. You know, she's getting really not afraid to
feel taxis so just let it flow.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
No one can do we qud cary Lone is sounding calne.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I'm pretty excited about this interview with Michael Hey, who
is the head of Gulf Goook below bull communications with okay.
Cupid like one of the largest dating apps in the world,
and y'all's app is the only one that like faces
your matches based off like tons of questions that are asked.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You like, do a big survey ahead of time? Is
that right?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I have?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I've always been obsessed with love in dating and I'm
so far out of the loop now because I've been
married forever, but like I cannot wait to hear about
what is happening there.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yeah, so we were the only dating app that matches
you on what matters through in app questions and there's thousands.
They've also been answered more than five hundred million times
last year alone.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Wait, okay, so break that down.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
So when you download a cub it, you have to
answer at least fifteen of our in app questions.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And to answer that.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Okay, so tell me what those questions are, Like, what
are those kind of questions that you're asking?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
How are we setting this stage here?
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Yeah, so the beginning questions are pretty standard. Are you,
how religious are you? What are you looking for in
a partner? Sort of those like really basic questions that
you would expect, how long you want your next relationship
to last, choose a better romantic activity, things like that.
(01:49):
But most people go on to answer dozens and dozens more.
So that's how we connect people. And the more questions
you answer, the more com hatible your matches are going
to be. Because whenever we show you another user on Okaycupid,
you're actually going to see a match percentage with them,
and if you click that match percentage, which is like
(02:10):
my favorite part of the app, you get to see
where you agree and disagree. Because there are certain things
that aren't really that important, like I love coffee and
horror movies, my boyfriend does not. We're going on nine years.
It's pretty much okay. However, there are deal breakers, especially
when it comes to politics and some of the bigger
(02:31):
issues face we're facing today, like climate change, on Black
Lives Matter, and marriage equality. Certain deal breakers for people,
So you get to see what you agree on and
what you disagree on. You also get to rank how
important a question is to you.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh my god, this.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Is another like layer of it that's kind.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Of awesome because they're just saving yourself the trouble. I
feel like this is where dating app would be so helpful,
Like if I was like right before dating apps hit,
but I feel like dating apps would be so help
because now it's not like embarrassing to be on a
dating app.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
It's kind of like the way to date. And now
it's like.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So effective because you can go ahead and just see
the big points that you know are going to be
deal breakers for you. And instead of like going on
three days and trying to like slowly get to know
someone and like tell your story and what matters to you,
you can just see, Okay, let's just skip to the
heart of the matter here. Do we even have anything
in common in the first place, And if we have
these massive things that are deal breakers, let's not even
(03:28):
like start this process one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
And honestly, like some of those questions are a little
bit divisive and honestly sometimes boring, So we want to
make sure that before you even get to drinks or
coffee or a walk in the park. Whenever y'all are doing.
We give you enough information about the person that you
can make a decision ahead of time whether you want
to meet with them or not. So we kind of
like strip that part of the date away for you. Yeah,
(03:54):
they're also busy, like we don't want to waste our time.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I want to go through some of these questions. You
sent me this on some of the questions and maybe
you know them that are the most important questions for
like the people dating right now, and they were so great.
So here's some of these questions that people are asking
on the dating app, which I think is so cool
and ten billion responses to okay cupids in app.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So people are all about y'all. Are y'all the biggest
dating up out there?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
We are not, but we're one of the ogs. I mean,
we've been around for almost twenty years at this.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Okay, So y'all got something working. Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So here's the questions in twenty two that were the
most answered new questions.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Okay, So who comes up with these questions? Do you
come up with these questions?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yours truly? So I am sitting at my desks, pretending
to work but really just having fun adding in new questions. Basically,
if I'm talking about something with my friends or my
coworkers or I don't know whomver, it's probably something daters
want to talk about. So that's what really inspires our questions.
(04:58):
We want them to be conver station starters, we want
them to be deal breakers. We want we use them
actually to make the experience like so much better. So
it's real people in their twenties thirties who are like
asking all these questions or adding all these questions to
the app, which is really fun.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
But okay, Michael, Like, do you realize the impact you're
having on people like you coming up with these questions
that ten billion people are answering or I don't know
how many the number is whatever, Like so many people
on the app are answering these questions, Like you are
helping to shape so many relationships, and you're putting such
thoughtful questions out into the app, which is awesome, Like,
(05:36):
I this is so cool. Like I hope you know
how influential you are. Okay, so the questions are are
you sensitive? Love that? Like?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
These are the top questions answered on that are you sentimental.
So people are wanting to be sensitive and sentimental like
they're wanting. They don't want just like some hot stud
or beautiful woman.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
They want their people are after the heart of the
matter here.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Absolutely, and again I mean there obviously has to be
mutual physical attraction that's never really going to go away.
But when I've been at the brand for almost four
years at this point, and when I first joined in
twenty nineteen, I looked at some of the most popular
questions from that year, like what questions that year were
people answering the most, and a lot of them were
(06:20):
around if you like coffee dates, if you like cuddling,
like really high level things. Then we got slammed with
the global pandemic and everyone took a moment to take
a step back, take a break from dating, learn more
about themselves, and figure out like what's important to them,
and we saw a huge shift in the most popular questions.
(06:44):
So one of the things that I looked into at
the beginning of this year in twenty twenty three was
and this was around the fiftieth anniversary of Robi Wade,
but I wanted to know what questions were women asking
or answering the most this year, what's really top of
mind for them from the past year. And those questions
were not about coffee dates. They were should the government
(07:07):
defund planned parenthood? Are you pro choice? Is mental health
as important as physical health? They were answering questions about
self love and global warming and you know, discussing mental
health with a partner. So we've seen a big shift
in dating behaviors over the years, and I think a
(07:28):
shift in a in a really positive direction too.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
It's almost like this new generation of dating is so
much more intentional, Like it's like they've seen like the
sex drug rock and roll, getting drunk dating, hooking up,
not really getting deep with all the information right off
the back kind of play out, and it's.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Like they're sort of like evolved beyond.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
It feels like, do you feel that like this new generation,
like it's so much more than just that instant attraction.
It's like, no, it is so much There are so
many other things lay which obviously that all shakes out
when you get into a relationship, but you realize all
these other things at play. But it just feels like
this new generation is a lot smarter to go ahead,
and they know what they believe in a lot younger.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It feels like maybe.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
You I think what people are looking for has changed,
what they're prioritizing has changed, what they're talking about has changed.
So in one thing we've seen, which I actually really love,
is that discussions around mental health had become a huge
turn on for daters. We're seeing that more than nine
to ten daters on okay keep its say they're sensitive,
(08:34):
and this is really paying off for people, especially men.
So historically this was not something men were and probably
straight men were really interested in talking about. But last year,
men who said they are sensitive on okaykeep It received
one hundred and seven percent more likes and eighty six
percent more matches. They also had one hundred and thirteen
(08:57):
percent more conversations than men who we're an admitting that
they were sensitive at all. So this is something that historically,
I would argue was seen as a weakness in men
when we look at traditional gender roles. Now is one
of the most attractive traits in men.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Do you think people are players on okay keep it?
Like once a guy figures out that his like percent
and just go way up once he says he's sensitive
and has all this like heartfelt stuff, but really he's
just an asshole, like trying to like trick girls. I'm
just kidding.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
No, we're we an't have good daters, I of course,
like of absolutely. The good news is only you and
I are looking at that data, so they can't see
that on the app. Okay, okay, we have to keep
that between us.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Okay, well y'all listening. Don't tell anybody. Okay, this is
just so fascinating. So how do people like to date?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Now?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And it's also like talking about like cooking up? Are
people like cooking up right away? And you're saying people
like to do like walking dates, like people aren't spending
the money. There's a lot more sober dating, like what
is the climate of a date now? Like how do
people go on a date? Like how do you take
it from the dating app to the date?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
What?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And how does it advance? Like how do can you
date more than one person at a time? I know
you're saying too like people are a lot more open
with having like open ethically open relationships, Like what does
that mean?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
The kind of tell me? Like what happens next?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Like you get on this app, you match up, you
have you can really determine what you have in common.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But then like, how do you how does dating look?
What's the what's the steps?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
There's so much to unpack there.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I know.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Sorry, I'm going to go through like I'm just gonna
like walk myself through the life stage. So first, when
you're like on a dating app, you can probably assume
at this point we're very data driven and Okaycupan, no surprise.
We were actually founded by four math majors at Harvard,
so we've always been very data driven. And one thing
(10:57):
we started asking our dats recently was what is the
best icebreaker? What do you want someone to open up
with on a dating app? Because that's a question I
get all the time, is like I don't want to
say hey or hi. So if we look first at
the first conversation you have on a dating app, we
asked what the best icebreaker was, and we had about
(11:18):
four and a half million to respond to this question already,
so it's not a small sample size. Thirty percent said
they really prefer when a data opens up with a
simple introduction, So tell them a little bit more about yourself.
You don't have to open with paragraphs and paragraphs of
information and overwhelm them. But you have to put more
effort into hay or high and just on that note
(11:39):
and opening up with hey or hello or hi actually
has like a seventy or eighty percent rate of being ignored.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So yeah, I feel like that someone because even if,
like on Instagram, if someone writes the message and it's
like hey, it's like I have no desire whatever you
want to talk about, not interested.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
It's nothing to feed off of another thirty percent, like
when people ask the question twenty percent. Like when you
open with a joke, I think this is so subjective
because like what if you don't have the same humor,
So like that one honestly makes me nervous, But it's
the data. That's what the data shows, right, God.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Opening with a joke on a dating app like what
a joke goes wrong?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
So literally the dating you're dating on the app first,
But you really have to put your full effort into
dating because like right when dating apps took off, before
I got out of the dating world, like it was
still people are kind. I'm not in a dating app.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I'm too cool for dating app all that stuff, But
now that's not it. So it's like people give their
full effort right away, Like, you need to take this
app seriously. People take it seriously because this is how
you date now, Like, really, it's totally work. Yeah, you
really got to give it your best shot all the time.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
You absolutely and eight percent of people like when you
mentioned something on their profile. But to what you just said, work,
Like I people are a little bit shocked when I
say this because I think they expect me to say
online dating is super easy. You can do it in
your sleep. That's not the case. It's I like to
think of it as a part time job. What you
(13:12):
put into apt like okaycup it or Hinge or Tinder,
whatever your app of choice is, that's exactly what you're
going to get out of it. If you were not engaged,
if you are disinterested, you're going to attract people who
are not taking datings seriously, who are not really feeling it.
I also tell people, if you're not a mindset to date,
take a break. Either just don't open your app, or
(13:34):
write in your bio that you're taking a quick break,
or delete the app altogether. You have to have to
be in the mindset to start dating.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Man, that's so interesting, and this just goes back to
the law of attraction in general, and it just applies everywhere,
even on a dating app, Like you have to you
get back what you put in.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
If you are really looking to have a relationship and
you really want to have someone that you align with
and you really have core values that you know are
important to you, like, you can go out there and
find it on the app.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
If you work hard enough and like you like you know,
and you find other people who are working hard to
match because they really want to be with someone, You're
gonna at least get good interactions. You know, You're going
to at least meet with people that you can like,
have a good conversation with, and then if you do
that enough, you'll probably land on someone that you really
dee with. You know, is okay keepid is it like
(14:25):
cause I know, like Tinder or Hinde or something of
like I don't know, grinder with like the hookup app
or something like what are y'all known for? Because like
some people are like, oh, you just get on a
grinder if you want to like hook up?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Like what if people say about okay, keupid? What is
y'alls like? Vibe? Get on okay? Keep it? If you
want to get.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Married, So we definitely bring in a higher inten dator
and our product is designed to do that. So you
can't just download our app and upload a photo and
throw in your name and start seeing people. We really
make you put in work. You have to add multiple photos,
you have to respond to multiple proms, you have to
answer at least fifteen of our questions. We want to
(15:02):
make sure that it takes you a bit of time
to set up your profile, so that you're being more mindful,
and that the people coming into the app usually are
people who are going to take dating more seriously. They're
not you know, whatever you want to do, whether that's
like Saturday night or Saturday night for the rest of
your life, that's fine with us. But we do want
to bring in a dater that's a bit more mindful,
(15:23):
that is taking dating and relationships a bit more seriously.
So that's how our app is designed. It's definitely not
the easiest to just like download and start dating.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Okay, I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Okay, So let's go back to unpacking that giant, big
ball question I asked you earlier.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Oh yes, yeah, So one of the things you mentioned
which I find so interesting and something we recently looked
into is how much people are spending on a date.
So we're seeing that the economy is definitely having an
impact on how people are dating. They're definitely still dating,
but about four and ten of our daters are saying
(16:03):
globally that, you know, what's happening in the economy, they're
definitely feeling it. And we're seeing that a majority of
people actually want to spend less than fifty dollars on
a first date, and women are fifty seven percent more
likely to want to spend less than fifty dollars on
a first date. I actually don't think this is a
bad thing. I don't think this is people being cheap.
(16:25):
I say this as an opportunity for you to be
really creative. Dinner, drinks, shore, fun, movie dates like that's
an inexpensive date. Wouldn't recommend that for a first date
because there's not a lot of conversation that's happening.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
And a little awkward because then you should have to sit
there in silence next to someone.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's like, do we kind of hold hands? Do we not?
I don't know. You know, you need to have some
interaction on the first few dates. I feel like you
need to be moving.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I actually really like going for a walk or something.
It's less pressure.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
You don't have to get dress up, and you don't
have to eat in front of someone like I feel
like I remember like when I was dating, I always
thould be so awkward eating in front of someone in
the beginning. You know, like you don't want to have
to be like because I really want need to cheeseburger
with Rise and get a little messy with it. But
like you're not going to do that on a first date, you.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Know, no, you I mean, you can't have anything that's
like too saucy. You can't have anything that's like going
to get stuck in your teeth. There's like too many worlds.
But I also, I'm like very into like a low
pressure first date. So if you go on a walk,
like I live in New York City, so I'm thinking
Central Park right now, and you're not feeling it and
(17:30):
you're like, eh, I'm ready for this to be over.
You have the easiest out. You can just say, hey,
I'm walking this way. It was great catching up, great
meeting you, so great pressure.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
That is a wonderful first date because yeah, you're stretching
your legs. You're kind of seeing how someone moves, like honestly,
how someone physically moves and interacts with the world like
you have. You kind of have to like vibe with that,
you know. So there's so much so and then you
can get out if you want. You need to have
an escape plan for sure.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Totally. I mean, and that like a walking date is
something that's completely sober. And we're seeing that young dators
are really causing an increase in so dating. In twenty twelve,
so about ten years ago, eighty four percent of singles
on Okay Keep It said they were open to dating
someone who doesn't drink alcohol, but that actually jumped really
(18:23):
high to ninety six percent of respondents in twenty twenty two.
So we are definitely seeing this becoming a trend, and
it's really driven by millennials and gen Zers, but specifically
gen z. They're the ones saying, I don't need to
be drinking on a date. I want to do something
that doesn't involve alcohol. So that's like one of the
(18:45):
trends we're seeing that generation drive. We're also seeing them
drive a trend in not being in such a rush
to sleep around. And this was actually something that I
found really interesting when we were looking at the data
that gen zers or gen z daters were the generation
(19:06):
that was most likely to want to get to know
someone first, and they were taking more time than millennials
to move the relationship into a physical space more quickly.
So that was something nice to see as well and interesting.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
The new generation doesn't just want to sleep around, doesn't
just want to get drunk, doesn't just want to be
physically attracted to someone and have adventures.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
They actually want to have a connection.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
They want to talk about mental health, They want to
align with someone mentally, physically, spiritually, and like in their
beliefs in the world, and they want it to be
like a real full connection more than before.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
It feels like that's a top priority.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And because of dating app you really can do that
more quickly. It can use the apps to their highest
and best advantage, which you can with something like Okay KEEPID.
You really can set yourself up for good dates and
it might not be like I was kind of saying earlier,
it might not be like one, but like you can
(20:14):
set yourself up to have an enjoyable date with someone
that you at least you know you're aligning with on
a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah, people, I think people are looking you said this earlier,
like there's people are being more intentional about their dating
and they're kind of they're not deep prioritizing, you know,
that physical attraction, but they really are prioritizing compatibility. They're
certain things that are just deal breakers or deal makers
(20:42):
for people, and they're that's what's like top of their
list right now.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
That that makes me feel inspired and hopeful, and that
makes me feel like we're getting a little bit over
the hump of this, the big surge of technology like
Instagram and dating apps and all this connection to everyone.
Like when it all came out in the beginning, it
was so much and people didn't quite know how to
handle it.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
But I feel like maybe now people are realizing how
to use how the good way to utilize all these
apps in the negative way. You know.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
It's like you can use a dating app to really
have a great experience, or you can use it because
you just want to hook up and sleep around and
do whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And that's fine.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
But it's like people are now it's saying thing on
like Instagram, like it used to be like a comparison
hole and like TikTok, and like you would feel bad
about yourself. But now it's like people are actually making
useful videos and people you can learn stuff and you
can like teach people things and it can be elevating
at the same time, you know, I feel like now
maybe it's like sifting.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Out enough where it's not like, oh my god, this
is just all bad or this is just all good.
It's like, oh, okay, you can actually have a really
healthy experience here.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
One hundred percent. There's definitely a culture shift. We've obviously
seen it on okaycup It, but to your point, I'm
seeing that on Instagram, I'm seeing it on LinkedIn, I'm
definitely seeing it on TikTok. The type of content that
I saw on all those platforms three years ago is
completely different than what I'm seeing today. Even LinkedIn, I
(22:10):
see such vulnerability and emotion in everyone's posts and it's
really uplifting. So a lot of these platforms, which I
think got a really bad rap and you know, they're
called toxic at times, they've been really helpful and I
think people are building communities on all these different platforms
(22:31):
and were I mean, we're saying that I'm Okay, keep
it as well.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I think it's just it's like with anything with a
pendulum swing, you just it takes a little time to
like figure it out and to figure out how to
like use.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It to the best way that you can.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
But like I'm sitting here listening to what you're saying
and thinking about how I was when I was dating.
Oh my god, Michael, I was a freaking tornado. Like
I was just like trying to make out with everybody
that I had a connection with, and like I wanted
to fall so deeply in life, but like I didn't
even know how to get to those big questions right away.
And then it's just like it was like a mess,
(23:05):
which I was just like it was just a disaster.
I mean it was fun, but like I think I
could have really done a better job with And I
love my husband and I'm so thankful I ended up
where I did and he's the best and we're it's amazing,
thank God, Like we found each other through the.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Mess of dating. But like I feel like, Okay, Cupid.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Really could help you clean it up a little bit,
like and just not have to be a dumpster fire
of ating dedating dating disaster. Maybe I mean, you still can,
and I'm sure dating is still hard no matter how
you slice it. But I feel like the app is
the way to go. Like, if you're not on an
app at this day and age, you're really missing out.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I think you you definitely have to be on an app.
That's where most people are really going to be meeting another,
you know, a romantic partner. I also think it's important
to choose the right app for you. Yeah, there's going
to be people who come to Okay Cupan and say,
I'm not really getting what I want out of this.
There a disconnect, just like we're going to see people
turn to Tinder and say the same thing or hand.
(24:04):
So figure out before you go on any of these apps.
Figure out what you're looking for in a partner, what
you're looking for in a relationship, and then find that
app that is going to really match that match your
values and your beliefs. There are so many dating apps
out there you can find the one for you, and
most people are on multiple at a time, So try
a few different ones out.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
What do you love about Okay keep It? What do
you love about working there?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
What do you love about the company, Like, what has
you been there a long time, right.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Yeah, almost four years. I would say the brand itself
is so aligned with my personal values.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Can talk to me about your values, talk to me
about the values of okaykeepit, which are yours?
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, so Okaycupid has well I identify as gay for
anyone who has not figured that out yet spoiler alert.
But I am also on the board of the Human
Rights Campaign, so I am part of the community. I
advocate for my own community. Okay keep It has been
introducing features specifically designed for LGBTQ plus users for years
(25:11):
and it's still the small, like a very moll cohort
of people who are on our app. But it's so
important to the company, which I think tells a lot
about the brand too, that they're saying, you know what,
this isn't going to serve ninety eight percent of our users,
but we're going to do this anyway because the people
that it does serve, it's going to make such a
strong impact. So Okay keep It was the first to
(25:32):
expand gender and orientation options, the first I add a
pronouner to profile they have in app. I talked about
our questions all the time. We actually have questions specifically
for LGBTQ plus people that were written by queer people,
and even within our own community, we're not all the same.
So there are questions for bisexual people, questions for gay people,
(25:56):
and that's something I, you know, I have always loved about.
And you know, a few months ago, I thought, Okay,
when's the first time they actually added a question for
a queer person?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
You know?
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Was it when it became a trending topic? And it
was actually two thousand and four, the year the company
launched the app. So like that, just like further made
me love this company that much more. And from a
product perspective, I love that it's designed in a way
that tailors the experience to people all around the world.
(26:28):
So and again we do that with our question. So
if you're dating in Nashville or New York City or
San Francisco, questions you see are going to be different
than if you're dating in London or Tel Aviv or
Mumbai or whatever city you're in around the world because
we have localized questions in over thirty countries, because we
(26:48):
know every culture is different.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Wow, So y'all really put in some time to set
people up for success.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
We yes, like we don't want you to be on
the app forever. No one wants to get on a
dating app where they don't know anybody who's meant on it.
So we want you to find success. We want to
give you all the tools that you that is going
to make your experience better. I mean, we even have
something called iqpid that is personal to you. So you
(27:17):
see it. You see this dashboard. No one else is
going to see your dashboard, and it gives you tips
on how to optimize the app to get a better experience. So,
like one of those tips is filling out every detail
on your profile.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Oh, let's do how to Let's do how to Okay?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
How to optimize your dating experience on okay Cupid. How
do you go on okay Cupid and set yourself up
for the most success to win the dating game.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Well, first is filling out everything we tell you too
on your profile, because once you do that, people who
have a complete profile get two hundred percent more matches
than people who are leaving things blank.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
So take it seriously, do the work.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
There's other tips and tricks like the amount of photos
you should include, which are at least five to six,
the amount of like characters, that you should include in
your summary section. But one tip that I'll give that
actually works for any dating app, so whether that's Hinge
or Tinder or Match or okaycup it. And I found
this fascinating. I learned it from our data science team
(28:23):
when I first joined the company. So it's an insider trick.
Every three to four weeks, so about once a month,
you need to change things on your profile. Delete one
or two photos and add one or two new ones,
and change a few of the responses the prompts that
you're answering. So if you're on Hinge and you're answering
(28:44):
a few prompts, change some of those. Same with okaycup It.
What's going to happen is the app is actually going
to get confused and it's going to see all this
activity happening on your profile, and it's going to say, oh,
this is a brand new user, and it's going to
boost you and show you to even more profiles. So
(29:04):
that's a trick I always tell friends to do, like
once a month.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Oh okay, so insider trick. Okay, So then answer answer
all the prompts, which I love that you guys ask
all the things like are you sensitive you talk about
like politics, beliefs, all of it, the big topics, y'all
ask the big questions. So answer all the questions, change
it up, and then how do you stay Like how
(29:31):
do you stay moving on it? How do you stay
getting the good people come in your way? Like how
do you like how do you interact? You need to
be writing people like is it good to reach out
to people first? And you were saying earlier like don't
reach out with just a hey, reach out with like
a joke, oh, which would freak me out, But like
you know, just like reach out, have a good have
a good entry point to like talk to some like
how do you like make the first move?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Like how do you take it to the next step?
Like how do you keep it going?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Well, first, be really mindful about what you're putting into
your profile. Well, that's actually the most important piece because
it's your first impression. That's when people learn about you
before they even start talking with you. So the one
tip I have, or one of the tips I have
for that is always be positive with anything you write
a profile proms, I'll open friends dating apps with them,
(30:17):
and I'll scroll past profiles with them. And the biggest
turn off I see is someone saying swipe left if
and it's just so negative. I think it's really important
that we all have those things that are important to us.
But instead of focusing on your deal breakers, I have
to tell people to highlight their deal makers.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
So it's just.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
About repositioning what you're putting out there in a more
positive way. And then also make lists when you're filling
out your profile and you're responding to different prompts, list
books that you're reading, or restaurants you want to go to,
vacations you want to go on, songs on your Spotify list.
What this is going to do is it's going to
give someone something that they can respond to. And you
(31:02):
want to do this with your photos too, Like you
don't want to upload five different selfies. You want to
upload a photo of you at the Taylor Swift concert
or running a marathon or on vacation. That's going to
give someone a conversation starter in a really easy way,
because people need help with that opening message. So those
are like the profile tips that I love to get people.
(31:25):
And then also kind of have a.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Well rounded picture, like not like what about like bikini pictures.
I feel like that was the thing, is that still cool?
Do you want to put your body up there?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Is it more like put your full experience, not just
that you got you know, some nice boods.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
I mean, if you're comfortable with that, I say absolutely,
go and do it. But make sure there's a diverse
mix of photos, because again, being attractive, having someone who's
attracted to you, that's definitely going to draw them in
maybe for the first half a second, but after that
there needs to be substance. There needs to be something
(32:00):
that's going to keep them hooked and interested. So even
if it's you in a bikini, what are you doing?
Are you on vacation? You know, give a little bit
more color to what you're interested in.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, I have a point to Okay, So that's great
with the profile picture, in the in the profile tagline.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Then what's next.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
When it comes to messaging them for the first time.
We talked about like the icebreakers that are resonating well
with people. But one thing I just want to add
to that is women should definitely feel comfortable making the
first move, and we have data that backs up that
it's more successful for them. So one thing we saw
(32:38):
during the pandemic was that on okay Cupid, women were
sending the first message more than they ever were in
our eighteen year history. I think they said, you know
f it, I'm at home, I'm on a couch, I
know what I'm looking for, and I'm not going to
wait for a princh charming to come and knock on
my door or message me on a dating app. If
(33:00):
I want to talk to someone, I'm going to go
talk to them.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
And yes, I love that.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Conversations that are initiated by women last significantly longer on
Okaycuepan than conversations that are started by men. So go
out there, put yourself out there and send that first message.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Oh I love that, Okay, And like you said, is
there a specific kind of message to send?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Some people do a joke.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Some people say, hey, I saw your prope, I saw
your picture. I like that you are love to go
to the beach. Like is it just like you just
kind of start with something obvious.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I would say, start with anything that's like a conversation starter.
So give a little bit more about yourself or kind
of what you're looking for, think about why you're on
the dating app, and you can open up with that
as well. I like to I think questions are the
best way to start. Maybe like add an opening sentence
to that question, But I think questions are a great
(33:53):
conversation starter because before they're even going to dissect your
question or panic about what to say, the most natural
thing is going to be respond to that question, and
then you have a conversation starting.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
H I love that, Okay, And then talked to you
about the metaverse. What's happening? Will people date on the metaverse?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
What is? What does that mean? So?
Speaker 4 (34:15):
I think the jury is still out with that. Is
it that like gen z are most interested in exploring
the metaverse compared to millennials, compared to Gen xers. But basically,
how you would date in the metaverse is going to
a platform which you put.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
On like a you put on like a headset.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yes, or you don't actually don't even have to do that.
You create an avatar, so like a character of yourself
or who you want to be. You go to another platform.
This is there's no metaverse on, Okay, keepit, but you
can go. I like to think of it as like gaming.
That's like the easiest way for me to think about it.
Character when you're gaming and you're interacting with with other people.
(35:01):
So just like you're interacting with other gamers, you can
interact with other dats not for me, not my jam.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
So people will go in there and create an avatar?
And can does it have to be a human? Can
it be like a superhuman?
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Could be a superhuman man?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
This is wild? God gosh, I'm getting old.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I'm really starting to get old because I'm like, what
is all this stuff that young people are doing?
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Like, my head can't grasp it. My brain's not like
my bandwidth isn't big enough to understand it.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
I'm with you, honestly, I was like, what is TikTok
at the being of the pandemic?
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I know?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
But now you're probably like the TikTok king, aren't you?
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Maybe the TikTok watching king. I'm not cool enough to
be posting.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
But you understand stuff because like for you understand, I
feel like you understand trends, you understand what's happening, You
understand climate and culture, Like are you just taking stuff in?
Is that? Do you kind of just gather information all
the time.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
I feel like I'm constantly digesting what's happening in pop culture,
in society, in I have to pay attention to like
politics and the economy, and because everything that's around us
that winds up inspiring the questions we ask on our app.
So I have to understand and what's top of mind
for people in general in the US and in the
(36:19):
UK and Israel and Germany and all these different markets
that we're marketing in.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
So you have to you have to understand it for
every market. Yeah, does that mean you go travel to
these other countries where okay Cupid is and like you like,
do case study or how do you get your information?
Do you just travel on TikTok?
Speaker 4 (36:37):
So? I haven't yet because most of the time that
I've been at Okaycupan has been during a pandemic. Fun
but I have amazing partners in each of these markets
on the ground. So every every week I'm talking talking
to partners who are Israeli, British, Australian, Turkish, German, and
(36:59):
we're collaborating on what we should be asking, what we
should be saying on social what content we should be creating.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
So okay, so your job role is creating the questions
in the app and then creating the content to let
people know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
In the app is that your you, just you are
the heart and the soul in expressed form of what
okay keep it stands for.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
I like to think of myself like the core pillar
of my job is basically storytelling. I'm telling stories and media.
We're telling stories on social working with influencers to help
tell stories. So storytelling is that like common thread through
everything that I do.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
What is inspiring you about dating these days and making
you feel discouraged about dating these days?
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Ooh, that's such a good question. I would say a
lot of the trends that we talked about are what's
inspiring me. Seeing how active and vocal our daters are
when it comes to Black Lives Matter and climate change
and LGBTQ plus rights and reproductive healthcare. That's just it's
(38:11):
so inspiring to see because we are, you know, seeing
how people are responding to questions about these topics. We're
the only dating app that introduced a Black Lives Matter
profile badge, the only dating app that introduced an I'm
pro choice badge in response to what we've seen happen
in the US. So our daters actually keep me really
(38:32):
inspired every single day. What's discouraging probably people complain about dating.
People love to complain about dating. I hear complaints every
single day about not just dating apps, but like dating
culture in general. That kind of just comes with the job.
(38:53):
And then anytime I hear a friend or maybe a
dater that DMS me about an experience. Anytime I hear
someone get ghosted, that's really discouraging because there's no reason
to do it. I like, you don't have to end
something with someone in person if you don't feel comfortable
after especially after first few dates, but you can just
(39:16):
text them or message them on the app and let
them know that you're not feeling it. So that's discouraging
because there's no reason for it, and it feels down
on the other side.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Okay, I love that. So where do you think dating
is going to be in the next like decade.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
I think we're probably going to build off a lot
of the trends we're seeing now in that tall, dark,
and handsome is going to be so far forgotten in
what people are looking for again. Still, I don't think
we'll ever lose that attraction piece, but it's not going
to be anywhere near the top of people's list, and
(39:53):
we're going to become even more mindful in how we're dating,
and that makes me hopeful too.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It's even like I have a three year old daughter,
and so we we're watching a lot of Disney movies
right now. Like I don't like playing the old Disney
movies like Sleeping Beauty and Snow White and Cinderella. It's
like all of those movies set up this maiden in
distress to be saved by the tall, dark and handsome prince,
(40:22):
and I'm like, oh, oh.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I can't do it. And I like love those movies
growing up, but I'm like the messaging is just not right.
So it's like the.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
New movies, like I feel like even seeing it in Disney,
it's changing, like how people are viewing their roles and
what a relationship is. Like with Encanto, it's like you
know and like uh mawana, and it's like women are
strong and capable and it's not all about having someone
save you and having like the.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Tall, dark and handsome prince ride in. It's like, no,
let's not do that anymore. Like yes, let's be attracted,
but we don't. No one needs to be saved.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
We all need to be like working together and healing
ourselves and then becoming a stronger team together. I feel
like it's shifting in general, Like the awareness of what
a relationship could and should be is elevating.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Absolutely. And those are also two of my favorite movies.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
In Conto and Mawana.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
Yeah, I'm like a child still me too.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I could watch them all the time.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
I'd literally all the New Disney movies I love and I.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Like watch the old oh good, but the old ones.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I don't know if you've watched the old ones. If
you watch the old ones in comparison to the new ones,
like the way the storylines are changing, it's it's huge,
It's like a drastic change.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Yeah. I haven't like, really rewatched the old ones for
quite some time, although there was literally a week during
the pandemic that I watched Mawana five times in one week.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
It's the best movie of all time. Yeah, my favorite.
Do you like that part with the crab is singing
and he's like, did you like my song? It's like myself,
I freaking love one. It's so good man, Michael, You're
so fun. What are you loving in life these days?
What's bringing you joy?
Speaker 4 (42:11):
Soul cycle? That's my therapy? Okay, I need. I need
to go like four or five times a week. It's
how I remain calm and grounded and collected. And then
also reading books like hardcover not tablets. I'm a big reader.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
What are you reading right now?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
I right now am reading Every Value Break by Peter Swanson,
So I'm really into like mysteries and thrillers.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Every Value Break Okay, okay.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
It's very good so far.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well, you're just so fun.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
What's it?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
And I have like two more questions than a wrap up?
What's it like to be living in New York? Like
you're in the city of all the action, but yet
now we've come out of this pandemic, everything's changed. I
feel like all the big cities don't quite have the
same like beautiful, glamorous vibe they used to have, but
still in my heart, I feel like they do.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I don't know what's it like to be a young, sophisticated,
in love guy in your prime in New York City
right now? What is that vibe?
Speaker 4 (43:16):
I think it's just as magical as pre pandemic. Because
I'm a New Yorker born and raised, so my parents
are Brooklyn born. I grew up right outside New York City.
I went to college in like the middle of New York,
and I've been working in New York City since twenty fourteen.
(43:37):
So New York will always be so incredibly special to me.
Even when I travel, I'm always so excited to come
back here.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
So the magic is still a full force.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Yeah, it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Has it changed since the pandemic or is it kind
of back to normal?
Speaker 4 (43:55):
I think it's back to normal. I would say probably
twenty twenty one actually is when it started to feel
more normal. But yeah, I think it's I don't feel
any like lingering impacts of the pandemic personally. Of course,
there's been businesses that I've shot, but there's also been
(44:17):
a ton of businesses that have emerged as well.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Right, Like the online world has like really blown up.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Yeah, so I think the magic's still here. Definitely encourage
people to come visit.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Okay, good, because that New York to me is like
one of the greatest cities ever. Just I mean even
just like going being able to go to a Broadway play,
you know, it's just like what you can do in
New York is so spectacular. I always wrap up with
one question and Michael, you are just such a fascinating
person to talk to. You have such like a pulse
on what's happening in the world. It's so easy to like,
(44:49):
I'm like, what, fifteen.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Years out of dating, so I'm kind of far out
of dating, but it's like so easy to like get
out of what's happening.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
And like, I literally look at all the young people
all the time, and I'm like, what, how are you
navigating this? What's going on out there?
Speaker 3 (45:03):
So like just to know from an insider perspective, like yourself,
what dating really is these days, how people are doing it,
how to succeed with it, how to use these apps
to the best of your advantage, and how not to
be like I mean, I guess people really aren't like
embarrassed of being online anymore on apps, Like that's like
a normal thing, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Although when I met my boyfriend, we met on Tinder
in twenty fourteen, and I had only known about Tinder
for maybe three months at that point, and I remember
the first time I heard it. I was away with
friends and one of my guy friends is meeting up
with a girl that he met on Tinder, and I
thought that is so weird. That you're meeting up with
(45:46):
a strainer in a new city that you met on
an app. And now it's so much more normalized that
I'll be out with friends or friends will go out
and let me know things that happened and they'll be like,
oh my god, this guy was so creepy out the
bar and I'm like, well, what happened And she's like, well,
I don't know him, and he came up and said
hi to me. So there's like such a like course.
(46:09):
Now I'm fascinating.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Because before the only way to talk to someone is
a random guy to come up and talk to you
at a bar, or not the only way, but that
was like one of the main ways. So now that's
actually considered kind of like invasive and gross.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah you see, like a swap that's so wild.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
So like the way that people used to do it
is now like a total turn off and disgusting. It's creepy.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
Yeah, so weird.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I always wrap up with leave your light. And it's
just a super open ended question, especially like with you
and dating and understanding all this and the culture. What
do you want people to know?
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Ooh, I want people to know something. I tell myself
that You are enough exactly how you are, and for
anything good that happens in your life, you deserve it.
You are not lucky, you earned it. So whether that's
having a seat at the table, being part of a
(47:10):
certain room, you are there for a reason. So you
are enough and you deserve all the good coming your way.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Love that love that so good.
Speaker 4 (47:22):
I'm so gay.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
You're the one behind all the questions for the dating
app because you have such a sweet, beautiful soul, Michael,
and I love that you're putting that out into the
world with the people trying to find their own love stories.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Yes, positive vibes.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
So where can everyone get involved with Okaycupid?
Speaker 3 (47:40):
If people want to follow along with you? Just what's
all the information we need to know to keep up
with this conversation?
Speaker 4 (47:45):
You can follow and keep up with okaycuep it at
Okaycupid on Instagram and Twitter and TikTok. And you can
find me at Michael kPr on Instagram and Twitter and
feel free to DM me with any dating questions you have,
advice you need or if you just want event. I
am there for you.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Oh my god, You're so nice.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
So you actually respond to people and will like take
their questions and answer them and give good feedback.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
Yes, I had one guy a couple months ago was
dming me like paragraphs for about forty minutes on my
commute to work, and we were going back and forth
about this experience. He it wasn't even a girl he
met on Okay Cupid. It was a woman he met
in his like town, but he just like needed to
talk to someone. So I'm there for you.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
So kind of generous of you to give your energy
that way. That is so nice.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Michael Okay, So y'all have questions, y'all hit Michael up.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
He said, doors are open. I love that you are
such a kind, amazing soul. This was so fun to
hear about this, and I appreciate you enlightening me because
I now am like, oh, I mean I really am.
I'm like old, Like I like the music I like.
Now I'm like all these new artists coming out, I'm like,
who are these? And like I was like, oh, I
will never become old like my parents, and they just
(49:04):
like don't stay hip with stuff, and I'm like, yeah,
it's just I'm out of the loop. I don't know
how to stay in the loop anymore. It's a big
loop to stay in.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
I'm in the same boat. I also teach. I teach
at New York University, and my students will talk about
things and I'm like, who is that? What is that trend?
So they keep me young too.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
But how does how do they all know about the
new person?
Speaker 4 (49:26):
Like?
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Are they how do they all have the same Are
they all like watching the same TikTok pages? Or like,
I just don't know how they all know the same stuff.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
We're old, We're old.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
That's it. That's what I finally accepted.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
I'm like, it's like a full time job to stay
current with who's out there, and I just don't have
that desire anymore.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Sadly, Oh but it's true. So thank you for updating
me on what's going on in the dating world, because
I've been curious about it, and I'm sure a lot
of people are and this was such interesting information.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
Of course, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Well, you have a wonderful day and a great weekend,
and maybe I'll see you out there in a wild
world one day.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yes, Okay, bye Michael.
Speaker 4 (50:05):
Bye.
Host
Caroline Hobby
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