October 26, 2023 • 18 mins
Mike and Kelsey give their spoiler version of Martin Scorsese’s Killer of the Flower Moon. They recap the film, best and worst moments and how changes were made from the book and how it altered the story. I repeat, ****CONTAINS SPOILERS****. Listen if you’ve seen the movie…or you don’t care about having it ruined for you.
New Episodes Every Monday!
Watch on YouTube: @MikeDeestro
Follow Mike on TikTok: @mikedeestro
Follow Mike on Instagram: @mikedeestro
Follow Mike on Threads: @mikedeestro
Follow Mike on Twitter: @mikedeestro
Email: MovieMikeD@gmail.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, let's get into it now. The spoiler version
of our Killers of the Flower Moon review. If you
are here, you have either watched the movie already or
you don't care about spoilers. But this is your final
warning because we're about to get into it all and.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm gonna spoil so much.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I want you to just to go off right now.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm just gonna give an entire synopsis. I'm sitting here
because you read the book from just buckle up people,
three hundred pages. I'm just going to read the whole book.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Do you read the book? I did not, so you
started off Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
First of all, I'm really bothered by the fact that
his brother's name was Byron in the movie and it's
Brian in the book. Why do we need to change that?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I don't know. Maybe I thought it was an accent thing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
No, it was larn Byron and in the book it's Brian. Okay,
the book. The biggest difference right off the bat is
that you know throughout the whole movie that Ernest and
his uncle are bad.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, so what happens in the movie is Leonardo DiCaprio
comes back for more. He was working as like somebody
who serves people meals.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, it was a cook, it was feeding them, and
he comes back.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
De Niro is his uncle and in the so the
difference is in the book you don't know the entire time,
but in the movie, right at the very beginning, they
devised the plan of him to marry Molly and try
to get.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
How did they describe it again, her head right.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So it's called a head right. So it's what each
O Sage member gets for like the oil money each year.
But some of them were deemed incompetent, meaning that like
a guardian would have to help take money out. But
the other thing is that Molly is a full blood
Osage and so what happens is and this is the
(01:44):
same in the book as it is in the movie.
Her sister Many dies of what they call wasting illness.
Her sister Anna disappears and is found shot. So that's
another thing that was different in the movie is that
they just like immediately go to finding Anna's body. She's
missing for about a week in the book and no
one can find her, and then they find her body
(02:05):
and then eventually Rita dies and then her or does
her mom die before Rita? I don't remember they follow
the right order in the movie of how the sisters die,
but the idea is that like then Molly's getting each
of their head rights and then She's left with all
of them. But you don't know who's after them the
(02:26):
whole time. And then you find out that William Hale,
the uncle, is responsible, and then you find out that Ernest,
Molly's husband has been working with him. So you yeah,
and the book it's so much more shocking.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
And I think that's what I wanted to get into
is after you told me that, I think that would
have made a better movie, because there are moments in
this film where these murders are happening that you don't
realize it's Leonardo DiCaprio at the time that he's there.
I think there was one instance where they go back
where they killed the detective and you don't see him
in his initial killing.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yes, and then you see him clear it up after
And I.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Think if they did a movie like this, or if
they just would have did the style where you find
it all out at the end of it and you
go back to all those murders and you see Leo
either there involved or him orchestrating it. I think that
would have been a great movie. The problem with that
it probably would have been an hour thirty an hour forty.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Five, Yeah, because it's very slow to get there.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You couldn't have kept that mystery going throughout the entire
movie of three and a half hours. So I thought
that was interesting to change that entirely and reveal that
plan at the very beginning that it's de Niro and
DiCaprio working together to devise this plan of essentially what
happens in this movie will do a real quick run through.
(03:41):
He marries Molli, they get they have some kids, and
they start killing off all of her sisters because if
they are able to kill everybody in the family and
then kill Molli.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
The head rights all go to Leo and then.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
It'll keep it in the family. De Niro gets money
and everybody's good good, So they devised this plan. They
hire people around the town to kill off each of her.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Sisters, and but then there's also other people that end
up dead. Is like collateral. There was Henry who was
good friends with the uncle who also have any Molly's
first husband from when they were very young. Yeah, they
basically went based on there were how do I say this.
(04:26):
There were a lot more people killed than just Molly's family. Yeah,
but it does center around the fact that, like her
whole family was killed off, but there were a lot
more killed off. And even in the movie they talk
about how many people died, they weren't investiating in the book,
they go into that they were like, there were so
many other murders. My other thing that I would have
loved to have seen more in the movie, but I
(04:47):
feel like it would have been too much of a
side plot was more of how the FBI was created
with kind of white Jesse Pleman's character, it just kind
of glosses over. He shows up and he's like, I'm
from the Bureau of Investigations.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So what happens is mall he gets sick, she gets
diabetes and she has to take insulin, which is just
created around this time, and then Leo's character, her husband
is poisoning her through the medication.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
With these doctors, these very shady doctors that were responsible
for a lot of help assistance with the murders. They
would sign off on insurance policies as well for people
because William the uncle would take out entrance policies on
people and he'd be like, oh, they're my friends, but
he was really like then plotting to murder them and
the would get the money the entrance policy. So yeah,
(05:32):
these doctors were so shady.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So she gets sick with diabetes, thinks she's taken insulin
to make her better, but she's getting more and more sick,
and there's one scene where she is so sick that
jesse Plemon's well, she gathers up the string before she's
terribly sick and goes to DC yes to tell the
president what is happening. That leads them to sending people
down who essentially are the first people in the FBI.
(05:55):
And that's when jesse Plemmon's character shows up to DiCaprio's
house and says he's there to investigate.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, it's actually and I got to tell you this,
but Tom White, who jesse Plemmons is playing, he was
a former Texas Ranger. His dad was like a Texas Ranger.
His dad was actually a ranger in Travis County in Austin,
which is really interesting. I might have gone, oh, he
mentioned the text, but yes, his dad was in Travis County,
which is the Austin area. But he like moves to Oklahoma,
(06:26):
moves his family because Jay Edgar Hoover, like who created
the FBI, wants him to lead it. And then he
brings in all these other people. One poses as like
an entrance salesman. One is a Native American, so he
blends right in. But yeah, there's a lot more details
about the work of the FBI in the book, which
I thought was really that was actually the act of
(06:48):
the book that I thought was the most fascinating was
how they discovered all of it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, I thought the movie was gonna deal with it more.
But at that point in the movie, everything is somewhat
going according to plan with their entire scheme to get
the money, aside from a couple deaths that have left
behind a little bit of a trail. And then from
there the investigation kind of starts. These members of the
(07:14):
FBI start questioning everybody. They start picking up on things
that if anybody had gone out there at any point
would have picked up on that clearly these people were
being murdered so they could take their money, and then
it leads to DiCaprio's character and the Nero's character going
to court. The part I didn't like was the ending
(07:34):
really too, which is also what I held against it
in my review.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, the ending was.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
The ending was weird because once it gets revealed, whenever
Molly finds out that her husband was the one poisoning her,
it just kind of ends. And then it goes to
this radio show telling all the details of the fallout.
And I didn't like that.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, that's where we have Jack White by Scorsese. It's
very random.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
It's a weird scene and a weird way to end
the movies. Orsese has a cameo there, and they essentially
just tell you instead of showing you everything that happens.
And I thought that was lame. I thought that was
such a weak ending for this entire movie. That didn't
even fit the style of the entire movie. It's just like,
all right, here's a live radio show of all the
fallout of it, and then it just kind of ends.
(08:22):
How was the ending of the book different as far
as Molly figuring that out? Was it still kind of
along the same lines because in the movie you don't
know anything that really happens.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Afterwards, we said she ended up divorcing him.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, she divorced him remarried. I think you they say
that in the movie and like the.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Live radio show Oh yeah, which was dumb, But I.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Feel like in the movie they like expressed she was
like a little more like still loving to earnest her husband,
but so she was in denial in the book and
then when she found out that it was true, left
his ass.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, I would have too, But I feel like still
even now that if it would have focused more on
the members of the Osage tribe, it would have been
a lot more impactful, because one of my favorite scenes
was probably in the third act where they go and
talk to everybody and there's a leader there telling them
(09:13):
that you know, back in the day, we would have
went and killed the people who were doing this to us,
but we don't know who the people are now, And
it just made me feel so bad for the O
Sah people and what they had to go through, and
the fact that these people around them wanted nothing to
do with them until they had the money. It just
feels so slimy and it feels so horrible. And like
(09:36):
you said that there was more death in the book
that showed you how much of a massacre it was.
That the movie didn't really show a whole lot of
that you do see murders throughout the film, but as
far as making the magnitude of what actually happened in
history come across more, they focused so much on Leonardo
DiCaprio and his uncle and their plot that it just
(09:59):
felt more like a crime epic than it did what
actually happened in history.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I was relooking through the book and I was finding
in part three when he talks about how many more
deaths there were, David Grant, the author does a little
bit more investigation of how many people had guardians, and
like how many of those guardians had other words are
what they were called. And he found that one guardian
(10:25):
around the time of all these deaths had eleven wards,
eight of whom died. Another guardian had thirteen wards, more
than half of whom had been listed as deceased. One
guardian had five wards, all of whom died, and so
on it went. The numbers were staggering and clearly defied
a natural death rate. And because most of these were
never investigated as impossible to determine how many deaths were suspicious,
(10:48):
that is crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
That is just crazy to think about, and it also,
in a weird way made me think about I'm glad
I was born in the time period I did, because, gosh,
just the fact that you could get away with this
so easily back then, and the fact that it seemed
like you didn't really have any security.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think about that often, but more from a public
health perspective of like having a medicine, yeah, tuberculosis, Oh well.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I just think of it like at any point, somebody
could just come to your house and be like I
want this house now and take your house, or burn
your house down, or just be brutally murdered somewhere. Not
that it can't happen now, but I feel like back
in the day there was just so much more fear
that I would have living my day to day life.
And to feel now like so secure and like there's
a normalcy to everything in an order. I don't know,
(11:37):
it's just a weird thing I had watching the movie
that made me grateful for being born in the time
period I did. The other part that excited me is
whenever they said the line from the trailer that I
keep repeating over and over.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Can you find the wolves in this picture?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And I think it's funny just because of all the
quotes for me, to stick out from this movie.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
That's that also was a very random plot point. It
wasn't even like a big It was from a book
that his uncle gave him to learn about the Osage,
and that's literally a line and a picture.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Can you find the wolves in this picture?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
But in the trailer it shows all the people there
at the end, whenever they're trying to get him not
to testify, I get it against his uncle and you
see all these people and you get like a big,
grand like old school portrait of these people, and you
have to pick out, like who was actually good here
and who was actually evil.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
That was another aspect I.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Liked about this movie, where all the photographs that were
taken throughout of the Osage people, and I like those
little moments of like them capturing that little small snapshot
of remembering it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I'm just in shock that. So this is our spoiler
of you if you're listening to our regular episode. We
forgot Brendan Fraser was in this film.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, I was about to get to hear which.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, there were so many people that I knew were
in it, but I forgot what characters they were going
to play. I found Brendan Fraser's character to be a
little bit comical because he was so over the top,
and that's probably how that person was meant to be portrayed.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh I'm sure, but in John Lithgow sorry.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Oh yeah, but in my head he was like George
at the Jungle acting in that moment John Lithgow was
in there.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
There was just so many random cameos.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
My favorite was Barry Corbyn playing the Undertaker, big one
Tree Hill fan.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
He was yeah, yeah, there there were so many people
in this movie. When yeah, and you have a three
and a half hour movie there, you're gonna be a
lot of cameos.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I wanted just more justice for the fact that Mollie
was duped by this man her.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, entire marriage, that's yeah, that's a hard thing to
think about.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
And he was had a hand in the brutally murdering
every single one of her family members. Because I don't
know if they talked about this in the movie either,
but her mom was poisoned. It wasn't a natural death.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Oh no, Yeah, they didn't mention that.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Well in the book Bill Smith, her brother in law
had a suspicion and they never investigated that. So, yeah,
all of them were. I think her sister Minnie's was
the only one that was natural causes, and that I
read the book like two weeks ago, and you all
know I've read like five more books. I think Mini's
death may have even been suspicious of the wasting illness.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
The sad part about the mom dying was whenever she
was realizing that she was starting to go, she sees
the owl, and that was kind of the symbol of
you're about to move on to the next life. And
then the part where Molly sees the owl, I was like, oh, no,
she's gonna die too. But then you realize that she's
being poisoned. During that investigation, they take her from the
(14:35):
home where Leonardo DiCaprio has kept her and they take
her to a hospital. When she gets better able to walk,
it's kind of a heroic moment of all the crap
that her character goes through, of losing all of her sisters,
all of her family, and then her at the point
at the brink of death and then comes back from it.
I wanted to see more of the rise of her
(14:56):
back because that's a major part, and I think sometimes Scorsese,
I don't think he does it on purpose, but he
kind of minimizes the female figures in his movies, Like
even though a lot of his female figures do have
this power that is understated and kind of at the
bottom of it all, you have these strong women. I
feel like you could have really brought her character, like
(15:17):
just showcased her a little bit more of all the
crack that she has gone through. At the end of it,
she should have had like this big triumphant, overarching like
I got out of this. But I guess if it
doesn't really line up with what happened in history, you
couldn't do that.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, I mean, also, I don't really think there was
I mean, she remarried, but she still died young, like
her whole family had been taken. Okay, I went back
to the part in the book.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
One thing I'll say before you get that.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I wish it would have had the Quentin Tarantino re
writing history and she killed Leonardo DiCaprio's character.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I guess that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Oh, that would have been good, like something.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
To wear like, Okay, she's been taking an advantage of
and lied to she kills him.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That would have been really good.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It would have made for a great movie, but again
probably not hystorically accurate anyway.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Good So, Yeah, her sister Many died like a couple
years before all of this started, but her death had
come with shocking speed, and Molly harbored doubts. Many had
only been twenty seven and had always been in perfect health.
And then another thing I found was like figure a
number about why they were considered the wealthiest people per
(16:23):
capita in the world. In nineteen twenty three alone, the
tribe took in more than thirty million, the equivalent today
of more than four hundred million. Good God, because of
all the oil. Yeah, they didn't really accurately state that either.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
They showed it with the amount of jewelry and nice
cars that they had and the fact they had drivers
taking them everywhere.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It was some of the largest oil deposits in the US,
and so certain that oil prospectors had to pay the
OSAH for leases and royalties.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Dang, that is crazy. That's why those people were so mad.
That is a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yep, Okay, And that's all I have about the book
before I read the whole thing on podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Anything else you felt about this?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Still a good job of casting. There are pictures in
the book.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Oh yeah, you're showing me that.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Real pictures of Molly and her family and Earnest and
Tom White, and I thought they did a really good job.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
So I feel like this is a movie that if
you go back and read the book, you learn a
whole lot more.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I think you can still read the book after.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I guess it's just different that you it spoils itself
because you already know that he is behind it.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
But you learn more how they figured it out. The
investigation process is cool. They use well, they have an informant,
but he's like double timing them.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Fact that the FBI wasn't created till the nineteen twenties, Yeah,
that's also bizarre.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It is really bizarre.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
But yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Still stand by my four out of five rating. You
stand by yours.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Four out of five for the movie, four point five
out of five for the book.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
That's it. That's all we have.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
All Right, we'll talk to you next time.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Until then, go out and watch good movies and I
will talk to you later.
All right, let's get into it now. The spoiler version
of our Killers of the Flower Moon review. If you
are here, you have either watched the movie already or
you don't care about spoilers. But this is your final
warning because we're about to get into it all and.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm gonna spoil so much.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I want you to just to go off right now.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm just gonna give an entire synopsis. I'm sitting here
because you read the book from just buckle up people,
three hundred pages. I'm just going to read the whole book.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Do you read the book? I did not, so you
started off Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
First of all, I'm really bothered by the fact that
his brother's name was Byron in the movie and it's
Brian in the book. Why do we need to change that?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I don't know. Maybe I thought it was an accent thing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
No, it was larn Byron and in the book it's Brian. Okay,
the book. The biggest difference right off the bat is
that you know throughout the whole movie that Ernest and
his uncle are bad.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, so what happens in the movie is Leonardo DiCaprio
comes back for more. He was working as like somebody
who serves people meals.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, it was a cook, it was feeding them, and
he comes back.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
De Niro is his uncle and in the so the
difference is in the book you don't know the entire time,
but in the movie, right at the very beginning, they
devised the plan of him to marry Molly and try
to get.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
How did they describe it again, her head right.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So it's called a head right. So it's what each
O Sage member gets for like the oil money each year.
But some of them were deemed incompetent, meaning that like
a guardian would have to help take money out. But
the other thing is that Molly is a full blood
Osage and so what happens is and this is the
(01:44):
same in the book as it is in the movie.
Her sister Many dies of what they call wasting illness.
Her sister Anna disappears and is found shot. So that's
another thing that was different in the movie is that
they just like immediately go to finding Anna's body. She's
missing for about a week in the book and no
one can find her, and then they find her body
(02:05):
and then eventually Rita dies and then her or does
her mom die before Rita? I don't remember they follow
the right order in the movie of how the sisters die,
but the idea is that like then Molly's getting each
of their head rights and then She's left with all
of them. But you don't know who's after them the
(02:26):
whole time. And then you find out that William Hale,
the uncle, is responsible, and then you find out that Ernest,
Molly's husband has been working with him. So you yeah,
and the book it's so much more shocking.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
And I think that's what I wanted to get into
is after you told me that, I think that would
have made a better movie, because there are moments in
this film where these murders are happening that you don't
realize it's Leonardo DiCaprio at the time that he's there.
I think there was one instance where they go back
where they killed the detective and you don't see him
in his initial killing.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yes, and then you see him clear it up after
And I.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Think if they did a movie like this, or if
they just would have did the style where you find
it all out at the end of it and you
go back to all those murders and you see Leo
either there involved or him orchestrating it. I think that
would have been a great movie. The problem with that
it probably would have been an hour thirty an hour forty.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Five, Yeah, because it's very slow to get there.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You couldn't have kept that mystery going throughout the entire
movie of three and a half hours. So I thought
that was interesting to change that entirely and reveal that
plan at the very beginning that it's de Niro and
DiCaprio working together to devise this plan of essentially what
happens in this movie will do a real quick run through.
(03:41):
He marries Molli, they get they have some kids, and
they start killing off all of her sisters because if
they are able to kill everybody in the family and
then kill Molli.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
The head rights all go to Leo and then.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
It'll keep it in the family. De Niro gets money
and everybody's good good, So they devised this plan. They
hire people around the town to kill off each of her.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Sisters, and but then there's also other people that end
up dead. Is like collateral. There was Henry who was
good friends with the uncle who also have any Molly's
first husband from when they were very young. Yeah, they
basically went based on there were how do I say this.
(04:26):
There were a lot more people killed than just Molly's family. Yeah,
but it does center around the fact that, like her
whole family was killed off, but there were a lot
more killed off. And even in the movie they talk
about how many people died, they weren't investiating in the book,
they go into that they were like, there were so
many other murders. My other thing that I would have
loved to have seen more in the movie, but I
(04:47):
feel like it would have been too much of a
side plot was more of how the FBI was created
with kind of white Jesse Pleman's character, it just kind
of glosses over. He shows up and he's like, I'm
from the Bureau of Investigations.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So what happens is mall he gets sick, she gets
diabetes and she has to take insulin, which is just
created around this time, and then Leo's character, her husband
is poisoning her through the medication.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
With these doctors, these very shady doctors that were responsible
for a lot of help assistance with the murders. They
would sign off on insurance policies as well for people
because William the uncle would take out entrance policies on
people and he'd be like, oh, they're my friends, but
he was really like then plotting to murder them and
the would get the money the entrance policy. So yeah,
(05:32):
these doctors were so shady.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So she gets sick with diabetes, thinks she's taken insulin
to make her better, but she's getting more and more sick,
and there's one scene where she is so sick that
jesse Plemon's well, she gathers up the string before she's
terribly sick and goes to DC yes to tell the
president what is happening. That leads them to sending people
down who essentially are the first people in the FBI.
(05:55):
And that's when jesse Plemmon's character shows up to DiCaprio's
house and says he's there to investigate.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, it's actually and I got to tell you this,
but Tom White, who jesse Plemmons is playing, he was
a former Texas Ranger. His dad was like a Texas Ranger.
His dad was actually a ranger in Travis County in Austin,
which is really interesting. I might have gone, oh, he
mentioned the text, but yes, his dad was in Travis County,
which is the Austin area. But he like moves to Oklahoma,
(06:26):
moves his family because Jay Edgar Hoover, like who created
the FBI, wants him to lead it. And then he
brings in all these other people. One poses as like
an entrance salesman. One is a Native American, so he
blends right in. But yeah, there's a lot more details
about the work of the FBI in the book, which
I thought was really that was actually the act of
(06:48):
the book that I thought was the most fascinating was
how they discovered all of it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, I thought the movie was gonna deal with it more.
But at that point in the movie, everything is somewhat
going according to plan with their entire scheme to get
the money, aside from a couple deaths that have left
behind a little bit of a trail. And then from
there the investigation kind of starts. These members of the
(07:14):
FBI start questioning everybody. They start picking up on things
that if anybody had gone out there at any point
would have picked up on that clearly these people were
being murdered so they could take their money, and then
it leads to DiCaprio's character and the Nero's character going
to court. The part I didn't like was the ending
(07:34):
really too, which is also what I held against it
in my review.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, the ending was.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
The ending was weird because once it gets revealed, whenever
Molly finds out that her husband was the one poisoning her,
it just kind of ends. And then it goes to
this radio show telling all the details of the fallout.
And I didn't like that.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, that's where we have Jack White by Scorsese. It's
very random.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
It's a weird scene and a weird way to end
the movies. Orsese has a cameo there, and they essentially
just tell you instead of showing you everything that happens.
And I thought that was lame. I thought that was
such a weak ending for this entire movie. That didn't
even fit the style of the entire movie. It's just like,
all right, here's a live radio show of all the
fallout of it, and then it just kind of ends.
(08:22):
How was the ending of the book different as far
as Molly figuring that out? Was it still kind of
along the same lines because in the movie you don't
know anything that really happens.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Afterwards, we said she ended up divorcing him.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, she divorced him remarried. I think you they say
that in the movie and like the.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Live radio show Oh yeah, which was dumb, But I.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Feel like in the movie they like expressed she was
like a little more like still loving to earnest her husband,
but so she was in denial in the book and
then when she found out that it was true, left
his ass.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, I would have too, But I feel like still
even now that if it would have focused more on
the members of the Osage tribe, it would have been
a lot more impactful, because one of my favorite scenes
was probably in the third act where they go and
talk to everybody and there's a leader there telling them
(09:13):
that you know, back in the day, we would have
went and killed the people who were doing this to us,
but we don't know who the people are now, And
it just made me feel so bad for the O
Sah people and what they had to go through, and
the fact that these people around them wanted nothing to
do with them until they had the money. It just
feels so slimy and it feels so horrible. And like
(09:36):
you said that there was more death in the book
that showed you how much of a massacre it was.
That the movie didn't really show a whole lot of
that you do see murders throughout the film, but as
far as making the magnitude of what actually happened in
history come across more, they focused so much on Leonardo
DiCaprio and his uncle and their plot that it just
(09:59):
felt more like a crime epic than it did what
actually happened in history.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I was relooking through the book and I was finding
in part three when he talks about how many more
deaths there were, David Grant, the author does a little
bit more investigation of how many people had guardians, and
like how many of those guardians had other words are
what they were called. And he found that one guardian
(10:25):
around the time of all these deaths had eleven wards,
eight of whom died. Another guardian had thirteen wards, more
than half of whom had been listed as deceased. One
guardian had five wards, all of whom died, and so
on it went. The numbers were staggering and clearly defied
a natural death rate. And because most of these were
never investigated as impossible to determine how many deaths were suspicious,
(10:48):
that is crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
That is just crazy to think about, and it also,
in a weird way made me think about I'm glad
I was born in the time period I did, because, gosh,
just the fact that you could get away with this
so easily back then, and the fact that it seemed
like you didn't really have any security.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think about that often, but more from a public
health perspective of like having a medicine, yeah, tuberculosis, Oh well.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I just think of it like at any point, somebody
could just come to your house and be like I
want this house now and take your house, or burn
your house down, or just be brutally murdered somewhere. Not
that it can't happen now, but I feel like back
in the day there was just so much more fear
that I would have living my day to day life.
And to feel now like so secure and like there's
a normalcy to everything in an order. I don't know,
(11:37):
it's just a weird thing I had watching the movie
that made me grateful for being born in the time
period I did. The other part that excited me is
whenever they said the line from the trailer that I
keep repeating over and over.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Can you find the wolves in this picture?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And I think it's funny just because of all the
quotes for me, to stick out from this movie.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
That's that also was a very random plot point. It
wasn't even like a big It was from a book
that his uncle gave him to learn about the Osage,
and that's literally a line and a picture.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Can you find the wolves in this picture?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
But in the trailer it shows all the people there
at the end, whenever they're trying to get him not
to testify, I get it against his uncle and you
see all these people and you get like a big,
grand like old school portrait of these people, and you
have to pick out, like who was actually good here
and who was actually evil.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
That was another aspect I.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Liked about this movie, where all the photographs that were
taken throughout of the Osage people, and I like those
little moments of like them capturing that little small snapshot
of remembering it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I'm just in shock that. So this is our spoiler
of you if you're listening to our regular episode. We
forgot Brendan Fraser was in this film.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, I was about to get to hear which.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, there were so many people that I knew were
in it, but I forgot what characters they were going
to play. I found Brendan Fraser's character to be a
little bit comical because he was so over the top,
and that's probably how that person was meant to be portrayed.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh I'm sure, but in John Lithgow sorry.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Oh yeah, but in my head he was like George
at the Jungle acting in that moment John Lithgow was
in there.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
There was just so many random cameos.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
My favorite was Barry Corbyn playing the Undertaker, big one
Tree Hill fan.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
He was yeah, yeah, there there were so many people
in this movie. When yeah, and you have a three
and a half hour movie there, you're gonna be a
lot of cameos.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I wanted just more justice for the fact that Mollie
was duped by this man her.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, entire marriage, that's yeah, that's a hard thing to
think about.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
And he was had a hand in the brutally murdering
every single one of her family members. Because I don't
know if they talked about this in the movie either,
but her mom was poisoned. It wasn't a natural death.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Oh no, Yeah, they didn't mention that.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Well in the book Bill Smith, her brother in law
had a suspicion and they never investigated that. So, yeah,
all of them were. I think her sister Minnie's was
the only one that was natural causes, and that I
read the book like two weeks ago, and you all
know I've read like five more books. I think Mini's
death may have even been suspicious of the wasting illness.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
The sad part about the mom dying was whenever she
was realizing that she was starting to go, she sees
the owl, and that was kind of the symbol of
you're about to move on to the next life. And
then the part where Molly sees the owl, I was like, oh, no,
she's gonna die too. But then you realize that she's
being poisoned. During that investigation, they take her from the
(14:35):
home where Leonardo DiCaprio has kept her and they take
her to a hospital. When she gets better able to walk,
it's kind of a heroic moment of all the crap
that her character goes through, of losing all of her sisters,
all of her family, and then her at the point
at the brink of death and then comes back from it.
I wanted to see more of the rise of her
(14:56):
back because that's a major part, and I think sometimes Scorsese,
I don't think he does it on purpose, but he
kind of minimizes the female figures in his movies, Like
even though a lot of his female figures do have
this power that is understated and kind of at the
bottom of it all, you have these strong women. I
feel like you could have really brought her character, like
(15:17):
just showcased her a little bit more of all the
crack that she has gone through. At the end of it,
she should have had like this big triumphant, overarching like
I got out of this. But I guess if it
doesn't really line up with what happened in history, you
couldn't do that.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, I mean, also, I don't really think there was
I mean, she remarried, but she still died young, like
her whole family had been taken. Okay, I went back
to the part in the book.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
One thing I'll say before you get that.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I wish it would have had the Quentin Tarantino re
writing history and she killed Leonardo DiCaprio's character.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I guess that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Oh, that would have been good, like something.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
To wear like, Okay, she's been taking an advantage of
and lied to she kills him.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That would have been really good.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It would have made for a great movie, but again
probably not hystorically accurate anyway.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Good So, Yeah, her sister Many died like a couple
years before all of this started, but her death had
come with shocking speed, and Molly harbored doubts. Many had
only been twenty seven and had always been in perfect health.
And then another thing I found was like figure a
number about why they were considered the wealthiest people per
(16:23):
capita in the world. In nineteen twenty three alone, the
tribe took in more than thirty million, the equivalent today
of more than four hundred million. Good God, because of
all the oil. Yeah, they didn't really accurately state that either.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
They showed it with the amount of jewelry and nice
cars that they had and the fact they had drivers
taking them everywhere.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It was some of the largest oil deposits in the US,
and so certain that oil prospectors had to pay the
OSAH for leases and royalties.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Dang, that is crazy. That's why those people were so mad.
That is a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yep, Okay, And that's all I have about the book
before I read the whole thing on podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Anything else you felt about this?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Still a good job of casting. There are pictures in
the book.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Oh yeah, you're showing me that.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Real pictures of Molly and her family and Earnest and
Tom White, and I thought they did a really good job.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
So I feel like this is a movie that if
you go back and read the book, you learn a
whole lot more.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I think you can still read the book after.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I guess it's just different that you it spoils itself
because you already know that he is behind it.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
But you learn more how they figured it out. The
investigation process is cool. They use well, they have an informant,
but he's like double timing them.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Fact that the FBI wasn't created till the nineteen twenties, Yeah,
that's also bizarre.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It is really bizarre.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
But yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Still stand by my four out of five rating. You
stand by yours.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Four out of five for the movie, four point five
out of five for the book.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
That's it. That's all we have.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
All Right, we'll talk to you next time.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Until then, go out and watch good movies and I
will talk to you later.
Popular Podcasts
1. The Podium
The Podium: An NBC Olympic and Paralympic podcast. Join us for insider coverage during the intense competition at the 2024 Paris Olympic and Paralympic Games. In the run-up to the Opening Ceremony, we’ll bring you deep into the stories and events that have you know and those you'll be hard-pressed to forget.
2. In The Village
In The Village will take you into the most exclusive areas of the 2024 Paris Olympic Games to explore the daily life of athletes, complete with all the funny, mundane and unexpected things you learn off the field of play. Join Elizabeth Beisel as she sits down with Olympians each day in Paris.
3. iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2024 Olympics.