March 19, 2025 • 42 mins
Ever notice how some people naturally draw others in, while others seem to push people away? What if the key to being more magnetic, successful, and fulfilled was as simple as shifting your energy?
In this episode, Kelly sits down with Dr. Harry Cohen, Ph.D., psychologist, executive coach, and author of Be The Sun, Not The Salt. His book is a short, powerful guide on how to uplift others, embody positive energy, and ultimately become happier and more effective in every aspect of life.
They dive into the Heliotropic Effect—the science behind why people naturally gravitate toward certain individuals—and how being a Positive Energizer can transform not only your relationships but also your own sense of well-being.
Topics include:
- What makes someone a people magnet and why authenticity is the ultimate attractor.
- How to bring out your best self in a way that benefits both you and the world around you.
- Three key strategies for keeping relationships strong and positive—even when challenges arise.
If you’re interested in how small shifts in your energy can improve your relationships and overall well-being, this episode is for you.
Check out Harry's Website HERE!
Find Harry's Book: Be The Sun, Not The Salt
Listen to his Podcast: Be The Sun, Not The Salt
HOST: Kelly Henderson // @velvetsedge // velvetsedge.com
Follow Velvet's Edge on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/velvetsedge/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Conversations on life, style, beauty and relationships. It's the Velvet's
Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Doctor Harry Cohen is here and before I give you
guys all his credentials, he and I were just having
a wonderful chat that I thought I need to bring
the listeners in on this because I was just having
this conversation with a friend recently and it was interesting
because we started talking about all of the constructs that
we found ourselves in and just how limited our thought
(00:32):
process was about I can do this, but I don't
can't do that. I'm stuck here. I'm stuck in this
city because of X, Y and Z. And my friend
literally said to me, but why why do we live
that way? And you were just telling me something very similar,
So can you kind of repeat what you just told
me in an overall sense for the listeners because you're
(00:54):
down in South Beach, live in a lovely life right now.
You're typically from Michigan, so we know it's called and
you were just telling me and describing how great it is,
So let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yes, So how great it is wherever you are and
what I was saying to you, and you said, Wow,
you seem to have life figured out. I said, yes,
I do. It took me this long. I'm seventy I
and I I'm actually not seventy until March eighteenth, but
I'm spending but I'm spending the month here, you know,
with friends and family coming to visit, because I know
(01:26):
how nutritious and delicious environment is. And I was saying
to you, curate your life, create your life to fill
it with nutritious and delicious nutrients like sunlight, like friendship,
like purpose, like exercise, like eating good food, like environments
(01:46):
that are healthy and good for you, like warm, beautiful settings.
And if you think you can't do it, it's your mindset.
Well there's nothing on this menu to eat. Yes there is.
You just have to look harder to find the really healthy,
really good for you stuff when it's not as a parent,
(02:08):
and so structure your life and mostly structure your minds,
like wait, what is getting in the way of living
a perfectly wonderful life. Whatever that is, well, then figure
it out. I was down on the beach just now
with a woman who she's in her forties. She's got
a nine year old and a five year old, and
(02:28):
her boyfriend was somewhere else. So she was doing kid
duty the whole time, and she said, you know, sometimes
I feel like I should have my head examined, you know,
being a single parent for these two kids Jesus so difficult.
And other times I just count my blessings and I
feel so lucky. I said to her. For the times
that you feel crappy, remember why you have those blessing
(02:51):
counting days, because that's that's what it's about, those two
beautiful kids. They're healthy and good, and she's doing a
great job being a mom to them. You know, NonStop
sells and you know stuff. But this work, this effort
of ours to live great lives, takes a little bit
of work, not a lot, a bit of work, a
(03:12):
little bit of work. If you're not having a great day,
well why not. You're in charge of your day?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, right right? Why do our minds immediately go to
the limiting belief? I know your background is in psychology,
So is there something to that that we just pick
up on? The limiting belief?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, it's our minds are wired
to see the glass half empty, okay, and it's designed
from an evolutionary point of view to keep you safe
when you hear When you hear something in the forest,
it immediately construe it is something negative to protect you
a saber tooth tiger. It's nothing. But that's just how
(03:54):
our minds are wired. Therefore, if you know that, you
know you have to do a little extra work to
see glass half full. Oh right, I was noticing my obstacles,
not my goal. Good, that's okay. Now move towards your goal.
In other words, if you have a goal with obstacles
(04:14):
in the way of it, you have to folks, you know, like,
oh damn it, the obstacles. That's okay, So go around them,
go through them, go over them, go under them, go
on a different road. But that's how our minds are wired.
Don't don't beat yourself up, don't think twice. Just know like,
oh right, I gotta work a little extra harden to
see the beauty in this magnificent life of ours.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It's almost like anything else, it seems, where once you
have the awareness and you can recognize it, you just
try to switch the narrative in your brain. Yeah, that
actually sounds as simple it is.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, by the way you can switch the narrative, there's
a lot of different things that you can do, and
you should do them all, but do whatever works for you.
Switch the narrative in your brain. Good, talk to a
different person who can help you good. Get into a
different environment physically. Nature is almost always resetting and healing
(05:12):
for most people. Go take a walk, you know, readjust
your perspective. Pick up Via the Sun and open up
to any page. They're all interchangeably good. Pick up any
book that you love and that you've underlined and highlighted,
and read something that uplifts you. Listen to music that
(05:35):
gets you out of your frame of mind, your negative
frame of mind. Do whatever you gotta do to get
you in the right frame of mind. And then take
an action. You know, this is really important to do something,
not just think differently. Act, Go say a kind word
(05:58):
to somebody, somebody a sweet text. Now I just rattled
off ten different things.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well I'm sure one of them spoke to each listener
in a different way. So, like you're saying, pick what
works for you and find find your own methods. As
I mentioned, you do have a background in psychology and
executive coaching, and you just mentioned your book Be the
Sun Not the Salt, which is rooted in the Is
it heliotropic, yes, oh, I say.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
That baleotropic effect, the heliotropic effect, the ileeotropic effects. Okay,
it is what happens to all living creatures when we're
drawn to positive energy, which is why a plant tilts
towards the sun. And the metaphor is be the sun
like the leaves on the plant, and not salt on
(06:50):
its roots, not salt of the earth. That's another way
of talking about good human beings. But the metaphors. Don't
salt someone's roots. Don't be a negative energy, critical, cynical, nasty, unconscious, disrespectful,
and on and on. Rather do the kind, nice, compassionate, grateful,
sweet thing for yourself and someone else. That's the filter
(07:14):
through which I look at the world. I wrote this
book so that it would be a timeless, timeless tool,
and thank god, it's turned out to be that way.
So I wrote it years ago and it's still in
the sales continue to increase as people discover it, which
is great. It hasn't changed. It's not like, oh, you
(07:35):
need a new message, No I don't. I just need
to practice this one more better, right, every you know,
just this past year, not this, not this not twenty five,
twenty four. I started every single day day of the month.
What day is it, Oh, it's the twelfth today? What chapter? Oh,
chapter twelve? What's that chapter? I wrote the book? I
(07:57):
couldn't tell you. The only reason I know today is
because I read it and I do this morning practice.
Takes me a minute to read the chapter, and I
think about how am I going to apply that for
myself today? To sit. Today's chapter is hold the salt.
That means don't say the narky thing that you think.
And so I think about, well, how can I apply
(08:18):
that today? Well, today I wrote this morning to one
hundred people while I'm on this podcast the velvet edge,
and I guess we're going to be talking about the
edge part of the velvet edge, because that smells like
salty behavior to me. I don't know what your podcast
is about, but when you said that everyone has a
velvet side and an edge side.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yeah, well I'm here to tell you that edge can cut, yes,
and we humans need to be extremely mindful to not inadvertently,
unintentionally and unconsciously cut someone else with that edge.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Jut, so we have to practice this. It's not like
I yet practice but I think snarky, sarcastic, nasty things
I just don't need to say right.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
The interesting thing I was going to say about this
book that I love is, first of all, I love
a tangible tool. That's my favorite thing to give listeners. Yes,
and so when I'm doing this podcast and any guest
that I have has a tangible tool that it's my
favorite thing, which this book is. I mean, I got
the book last night. I think your publisher shifted to me,
(09:33):
and I read it in an hour today. It's an
easy read. It's not anything that's going to take you
months and months and months. But I thought to myself,
I know all these principles, yep. But I love the
idea of reading one with the chapter of the month
or whatever it is, because the putting them into practice
is what I need. The reminders on.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Kelly me too, and I wrote the book.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah it's Kelly.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
It's no different. My hope and wish is that every
one of your listeners goes and gets it and then
gives it to somebody else, gives it to somebody else. Yeah,
get another one. I've been and I'd love for you
to share with your listeners, or you can text me
or call me, and he's like, ooh, I got a
great story to tell you. What great? Because let's spread
this to the world. It has helped me, it has
(10:16):
helped one thousand, thousands of people. That's helped some more
because it's easy, it's accessible. You don't have to do
anything other than oh right, ah right, I could do that.
And I am discovering new stuff. And I wrote the
book and still am discovering new stuff that I can
(10:40):
apply every single frickin' day. And I love that, Kelly.
It doesn't get old. And I can't tell you what
tomorrow's chapter is. I just know that it's thirteen, and
I'll look at it and go, oh nice, yeah, and
then let's see if I can practice it, because no,
I mean there's chapter and they're knowing, isn't doing Just
(11:01):
because we know this stuff doesn't mean we do it.
I'm married forty five years in August this year, and
I just figured out this sentence to say. Now, I
haven't been saying it because I'm not home and my
wife's back in Michigan, but I say, every morning, is
(11:21):
there anything you need for me to do for you today?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
What a simple sentence that could make such a big
change for.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Everybody for me. I mean, you know, she'll think about
it and say, well, actually, if you could, okay, I
had no problem, or no, I don't think so, but
if I do, you know, great okay, or yeah, you
know what if you could clean up that pilot debris
that's been sitting Yeah, okay, it's just great. And I
say that to say, how come I didn't know that before? Well, whatever,
(11:53):
I didn't, I'm open to learning more. I can't wait
to learn more new stuff like these are tools that
I use that we can help the world use that
makes everyone's life just this much better. And I can't
wait for people before I die if I can see it, like,
holy crap, Kelly, we did it. You helped me do it.
(12:14):
This is part of the zeitgeist of the culture where
people say I'm sorry I was a bit salty, and
then they do the next right thing, right, Okay, you
know there was no excuse for me doing that, and
I apologize for doing it. Awesome, How great would that be?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I totally agree, Kelly.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Let me just stop and appreciate you and say thank
you for reading the book. And I do these podcasts
because my publicists like you say, books me on them.
And I got to say, sometimes people don't take the
time to read the book, which takes less than an hour,
or even open it up and look at it. And
(12:59):
I so you for doing that. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Of course it actually helped me so much today. And
I wanted to comment on a couple things that you
just said because and I think we're doing it right
now as well with what you just said. But all
of the little statements that you mentioned as examples that
you could say to your wife, and you know they
sound so simple, right, but often we just don't do them.
And how connecting are those statements even just the question
(13:26):
asking the question? Like you said, there may not be
anything she needs, but immediately that's a connecting sequence between
you guys. And I'm wondering because I know we've talked
a little bit about I mean, the book is called
Be the Sun Not the Salt. You and I mentioned
you're down in South Beach, you're enjoying the sun, and
you encouraged me to do all the things that nourish me.
(13:48):
And all of that is about, you know, positive uplifting
behavior that we can incorporate into our lives. Becoming these
positive effective people. What I've learned about our society, though,
is people seem to operate best with a solution that
they think they need to a problem that they have.
So my question for you is, why do we need
(14:10):
to care about being a positive impact kind of person?
Why does our society need that? What are the benefits
that you think things like you wrote about in your
book could bring to our world right now?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
So, when human beings are their best selves, when we
are virtuous, kind, compassionate, good listeners, dependable, truthful, and on
and on. When we are like that, when we are
our best selves by being genuinely virtuous, authentic, and vulnerable
(14:53):
and all the rest. I say all the rest presuming
that people know what I mean, but we'll go into them.
If you want everybody benefits. First of all, you benefit.
You can show it in your blood pressure and in
your blood Other people just being around you, being in
your presence, feel the positive energy of your good living.
(15:18):
Why do I like that guy? Well, the answer is
because he listened to you, He cared about you, he
went out of his way for you. He showed you
that he was willing to do the extra work for
the desired result, all of those are kind of like yeah,
motherhood and apple pie. It's how all mothers and fathers
(15:40):
want to raise their children to be good human beings.
So an answer, well, what's the payoff? What's in it
for us? We feel better and people around us feel better? Period.
Now I can go on and say you're more effective
also as a leader, as a parent, as a friend.
(16:03):
Mainly people like to be around you and feel better
in your presence. Now, what the hell is there is
the downside of that? Right? There isn't any you know,
and so that's like, well, why should people care? Well,
they'll be happier, more fulfilled, and people around them will
(16:25):
want to be around them more. How's that like? If
that isn't enough you know some people, how's that going
to make me more money? Well, if you're in sales,
people are going to want to buy from you. Well
what if you're not in sales? Okay? I mean, you know,
if people want to know, what's the with them? What's
in it for me to practice being more heliotropic? We
(16:50):
can walk you through it, but it should be pretty
obvious in that when you are your best self, you
dig it and everybody around you anybody around you digs it.
So our job is to be our best self, not
somebody else more often, more frequently.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, it's so easy and so obvious and so good.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I don't want it to be more complicated. Like, well,
certain people aren't interested, Okay, I'm not just talking to them,
so be it. Whatever they got, I mean, their heads up,
their ass. I don't know, I can't imagine. I think
it's because people are, you know, in the Moslows hierarchy
of needs. They're just trying to survive and get by.
(17:39):
They're just trying to put food on the table. They're
just trying to get through the day. They can't think
of anything else other than getting through the day. And
for those people, it's still good.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
It's still good if they can refrain from snapping, if
when they get triggered they don't say the snarky, nasty thing.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
And yeah, that only patuates the problem, right.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
It only makes things worse. Like, so, what's the downside
of salty behavior? There's a million downsides, and they're all bad,
you know, like, well how bad, okay, from minor bad
to really major bad. You know, calling someone a nasty
name is bad. What do you mean by that? Okay,
(18:22):
I'm not going to explain it to you, but you know,
like you really need me to explain to you why
it's bad to call somebody a nasty name. I can
do that, but work with me here. Yeah, it's not good.
You want to be effective in life, you can't be
doing that. Yeah, And so we can be better human beings, period,
full stop. You just pick where you want to be
(18:45):
better and be better, period. And what I know, I'm
a good human being. Let's say ninety out of one
hundred times I do the right thing. Great, my job
is to go for ninety one out of one hundred.
And you say, well, what for nineties? Pretty damn good?
You're right me personally, I like the joy of working
(19:08):
it getting better. So ninety one is a goal for
someone else. Ninety is plenty good. They're fine being a
dick ten times out of one hundred, and I'm not
going to convince the otherwise.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, you know. Well, And like you say in the book,
I mean you've kind of mentioned this chapter as well,
but there's a whole chapter on apology that I thought
was so good because you talk about the different ways
that we just don't really seem to know how to apologize.
So for the ninety percent that you're good, that's great,
But then there is always going to be the ten
(19:43):
percent or whatever the percentage would be, because we are human, right, Yes,
these things will happen, and there's still a positive thing
you can take from that and go into repair if
you know how to apologize.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Exactly, and the repair can be better than the boogoo
even afterwards, which is for those people who aren't going
to get the book, you can get it an audible
for four bucks. But the apology is less words. Mean
what you say and express genuine regret and take responsibility.
(20:17):
I'm done, I'm sorry for being late to the meeting.
There's no excuse. It won't happen again.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I couldn't even really have anything to say back to that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Other than good, I accept your apology. Right. I had
a zoom earlier today and the guy was five minutes late,
and I wanted to make a point of saying, hey,
what happened, because it's not cool to be late to
a meeting for the first time with someone you don't know.
And we talked about it. It's some technical difficulties, I said, dude,
(20:51):
I completely understand. Thank you. Apology accepted. You apologize, I said,
apology accepted, I will. It is less than a molecule
or an atom. In my mind, it doesn't even exist.
But if it did, if you told me, oh, yeah,
I was rushing. I forgot I had this meeting, I
would have said to you, dude, don't do that again,
(21:13):
because people aren't going to experience it as okay. My
tip to you is, don't forget the meeting now. I
also have a pet peeve of being on time, and
when people are late, it bothers me, and I know
that I have to let that go because I just
cop an irritated attitude in a self justified, righteous bullshit way.
(21:37):
So I know that it's okay for people to be
late and me to get over it. Both can be
simultaneously true. It's not okay to be late. People should
apologize if they are, and if they are late, it's
no big deal, Harry, get over it.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah. Well, I love that you mentioned why people can
benefit even in the workplace, and I think that's obviously
a lot of your background as well as an executive coach.
You would go to these big corporations help them learn
how to communicate with each other and really kind of
incorporate a lot of the principles in the book into
just their daily lives. Once people would start incorporating these
(22:12):
kind of principles and the jobs that you were doing
with them, would you notice why people would start to
gravitate towards other people? And what's the energy behind that?
What's the purpose? Why does that happen?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
So people love being around positive energizers. That's the research
that I discovered, fell upon and said, oh my god,
So all the stuff that I teach and preach and
believe in and have read about for them. You mean
this is scientifically proven. Yes, it is. So people perform
better like to be around positive energizers in corporate America.
(22:45):
Holy alito.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Okay, so you can cuss on here. It's fine, My
listeners are used to it.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
O good. Holy shit. Then right, that means if people
perform better around positive leaders and positive energizers, let's help
more leaders be in positions of power and express all
these positive qualities and lo and behold, people do love
to work with and for and around them. The challenge
(23:14):
is that, because like you said, we are human, the
greatest leaders in the world are human too, and they
too can lose their cool, lose their temper, lose their shit,
and it's way worse than the average bear because they're
in the position, Oh my god, the chief cheese, you know,
was really disappointed with me. And you know, those those
(23:38):
salty expressions are more cutting and they last longer and
therefore more damaging and dangerous. So it's even more important
for leaders to be very mindful that they don't salt
other people's roots when they get triggered, when they get frustrated,
when they get disappointed, or whatever reasons they didn't have
(24:00):
a good night's sleep or whatever happened in the morning,
all those reasons are not okay for them to not
have a good day. Leaders need to always have a
good day. They can't be quote having a bad day.
What's up with that. You're responsible for all these people's lives.
You having a bad day is going to make them
(24:21):
have a bad day. So, in the answer to your question,
everybody wins when people deliberately try their best to be
their best selves or what we would call be the
sun and not the salt. And there will always be
times for them to lose it and then they can
do the next right thing, say they're human sa, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
There is so much more pressure on leaders. I've not
thought about it through that lens, but to not be
able to have a bad day feels almost inhumane, you know,
like it's just you're bad.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
That's get paid for.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
But that is what they get paid for. And I
love that you're bringing up the danger in not doing
that as a leader, because the power structure being off
goes back to us talking about like people's threat to security. Right,
So if the leader is coming down on you, it
threatens your security in a way that would be startling.
(25:18):
So then their behavior threatens your security, probably makes you
go off in all of these different tangents of negativity
and salt, which then spreads that out more because you're threatened, right,
and we as humans, when we're threatened, seem to act out.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
That's exactly right. And these are things that are unconscious
human nature habits. Right, That no big deal, Ferris Wheel.
You just go oh, yeah, yeah, I got yeah, I
have a tendency to do that. I gotta knock that off. Good,
that's it. Don't overthink this. Just make it really simple
for your listeners. Don't overthink it. Smile at a stranger
(25:55):
deliberately and watch what happens.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Oh that's so true. I totally believe yea.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Literally, the easiest thing to do is is smile and
know that you're going to uplift them with your with
your smile, or hold the door for someone deliberately that's
a little bit further down the street and they go,
oh my god, you're so kind that thank you so much.
You don't need to do that, I know it's okay.
Just do it deliberately, knowing that you're literally pouring some
(26:23):
on their leaves, and watch what happens. Your life will
be better and then you can look for more cool things.
The guy behind you in the Starbucks line, buy him coffee.
Let the guy merge wave. You know you're listening to
somebody bitch about somebody else, and you instead of saying, yeah,
you know what else I can't stand? Don't say anything
(26:43):
or walk away or say you know what, I it's
true about him, but you know what I do love
about him. Blah blah blah. Just be changing air to
be the force of goodness and love and light. Be that.
Remember remember that you have the power. We have the
power to make people. This is the Maya Angel quote.
(27:05):
We have the power to make people feel all kinds
of things. So knowing that we have that power.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Make them feel great, Yeah, deliberately like.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
It's your job, Like, well, what's my job? My job
is to make people feel great. If you're out to dinner,
server comes up to you, rather than just start in
just saying how's your day, nobody asks servers that.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Right, It's more about what can you do for me?
One of the overall messages I believe about when we're
operating from our best place is that is truly probably
our most authentic place. So I want to know why
(27:54):
is that so attractive? Why do you think authenticity is
such a big attractor? Because I'm seeing it on a
cultural level. We're so oversaturated and the things that seem
to be shining out differently are the things that are
the most authentic.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Authenticity is an attractor like many other virtuous qualities, and
the questions why are they all attractors? They stimulate different
parts of our being, probably from an evolutionary point of view,
to say that's good for you. Those berries will kill you,
Those berries are good for you. Okay, So vulnerability is
(28:30):
an attractor. Compassion is an attractor, Gratitude is an attractor.
Authenticity is an attractor. Love is an attractor. When you
feel genuine love from another human being, It's like, I
don't know why I feel that way. Well, that's why.
I don't know why specifically authenticity is, or specifically why
(28:52):
vulnerability or compassion or gratitude or generosity. But I know
these virtues are heliotrope. We like people who are this way.
All humans like people who are generous and authentic and
vulnerable and grateful. So huh what is that? It's like, well,
why does a flower, the fragrance of a flower generally
(29:17):
smell delightful to us humans? I don't know, but you
know they do, but it just does. Why does garbage
or putrid, putrid smells, rotting flesh smell, Well, it's from
an evolutionary perspective. Stay away from that, right, probably designed
(29:37):
to keep us alive. Don't go near putrid smell bad idea,
Go to fragrance, Go where the love is, right, go
where the juice is. And I think these qualities are
where the love is, where the juices, vulnerability, authenticity, gratitude, compassion, curiosity,
(30:04):
those are all qualities. They're like, ooh, I love that. Yeah,
so does everybody. So cultivate that. What we mean by
cultivate generosity, be generous. Hold the door is generous. Give
someone a blessing or a smile, that's generous. Buy somebody
a cup of coffee. Well, now you're talking money, Okay, okay,
don't so don't buy them a coffee, you know, yeah,
(30:27):
how do you? You know? Gratitude is such a lovely quality.
When someone says I really appreciate you, it's both nice,
thank you, but it also is it's nice that you
can appreciate Yeah, I know, and express it. So I
like universal truths and and I want to draft on
(30:51):
the back wheel of universal truths. What is it about enlightened, wonderful,
magnificent people that we are all attract to. Oh I
want to be like that?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah right, good?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Do that good.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It's just a positive effect again, all over again.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
All over again, uplifting goodness and the edge thing again,
I don't know what your your podcast is genuine. I
mean the velvet edge. I like the velvet. I'd put
the velvet over the edge just because I don't want
that edge part, which you're correct, about I heard this
great quote. We all everyone has a scar in the
(31:31):
exact shape of someone's words. You know that edge that
you speak of on your podcast. It can be nasty.
I want people to be very mindful of our edges
up plural, so that I don't cut you, I don't
make you bleed, I don't hurt you, even if it's inadvertently. Now,
(31:56):
the question often comes out, well, how do you hold
people accountable and how do you get your kids to
do X, Y and Z and idio. Well, you can
just you know, loving and demanding and straightforward and respectful
and direct.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I was just going to use that word. I have
actually found that the more direct and honest I am
in a kind way, the more people trust me. It's
so interesting how it all seems to work together, because
I think we walk on eggshells so many times, so
afraid to say our truth to people. But it's because
we only put the truth in this category of harshness,
(32:32):
and there are always ways to deliver it kindly.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Thank you the last sentence underline and hope your listeners
get which is well she said to be direct. She said,
there's ways to deliver a direct message kindly. Well, how
do you know whether you do that in the person
you're speaking to, they receive it and go all right, Okay,
(32:56):
I hear you. That's fair, Okay, I got it. Not
I love we told me. Someone might say thank you
for being that direct, good, You're welcome, and some might
just say got it. We're in the business of helping
people be better people, right, and I'm a people. I
want to be better people. It's not like I've got
it together. I'm I'm good. I want to be good.
I want to be gooder.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Right, It's a constant evolution. Okay, Well, so we're attracting
all these people because we're so positive and we're using
all these tools. Obviously, you are in relationship at that
point because you've got people around you everywhere, So whether
that's work, romantic friendship, all of that. I know that
you have three tips for keeping relationships cool, which we
kind of touched on. It's just some of them now.
(33:38):
But I need to know these tips because I think
my listeners are always wanting to learn how to be
better in relationship, and I just figure you might have
some really good ones.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Well, first of all, I don't know that I have
three Oh, I mean I.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Mean how many, however many.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Infinite infinite Okay. The way to think about all your relationships,
depending on who they are, there's so many ways to
pour into them goodness and not not pour into them
badness as salt, obnoxious comments or behaviors that make their
(34:20):
life worse. So anything that we can do that uplifts
and helps the other is fantastic. Do more of it.
So when you notice what you do with your relationships
that work out well that the other goes, wow, thank you, sweete.
I appreciate that. Kelly, you make a mental note ooh,
(34:42):
do more of that. I know what to do now,
and then just make a mental note of anything that
we do that makes the other person feel good or
say thank you. Go ooh. There's another one in the list,
and they're pretty basic. Do what you mean, what you say,
(35:02):
say what you mean, don't say it mean, don't say
anything cutting. Always look to be helpful. When something irritates you,
decide is this worth bringing up and talking about or
should I let it go? I don't know. You can
think about it and if it's worth bringing up, do
what you just did in a kind and direct way,
(35:24):
Say that doesn't work for me, and so the infinite ways,
and all you're interested in is getting that relationship more better,
improving it. You know, there's you know the you know
the love languages. Those are just five categories, right, gifts,
words of praise, acts of service, quality time.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
And physical touch.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
With physical touch, thank you so well, what kind of
physical you can do?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
A million?
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Physically? Can I give you a background? Can I give
you a foot? Rub, holding hand? Just just well, the
those are five different physical touches. What do you what
kind of acts of service? Let me? Let me?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Let me do the dishes, right, take the out, make
the budget whatever.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
They're infinite. Well, what kind of gifts they're infinite? Yeah,
and the words of praise, Oh my god, well, which
ones the ones that will make him or her say, oh,
thank you, that was so sweet? Oh that's really oh
you you don't need to say that. You don't need
to do that, you know, Yeah, of course you don't
(36:33):
need to. That's why you're doing it, not because you
need to. It's like looking at a plant and you go,
what does that plant need? It needs water, needs sunlight,
it needs fertilizer, It needs a steak so that it
doesn't fall over. It needs a bigger pot. Now, all
of those different things are because you look at the
plant and you go, what does it need? I think
(36:54):
it's pretty healthy, good water, regularly, give it a little fertilizer,
make sure you put it in the sun. Temperature okay,
how's the humidity whatever. No different for human beings, and
the tinier the better. Don't overthink. Just do the tiniest
sweet thing, like tell a loved one how much you
(37:18):
appreciate them and why. I mean, as long as you're
direct and kind and don't say you know you're a
lot better than you used to be.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Right, don't use it as a time to be passive
aggressed exactly.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I mean we say that like it's like everyone should
already know that, but some people. I once did an
exercise where you had to ask someone who knew you, well,
what are your unique wonderful qualities? Not as an ego boost,
but as a as a way of having someone else
articulate in absolute, specific terms the things that make you great.
(37:57):
And it's a wonderful exercise because you can then go, yeah, good,
I can I do that. One woman I asked my
podcast producer and she said, well, you invest in people's
vision in a really authentic way that makes them believe
that they can do it. I thought, that's a beautiful
thing to say, thank you. I do do that and
I appreciate she said that, but it made me realize
(38:18):
I could do that more. I could way do that more,
and it's great. So I asked once. This is many
years ago, I asked a person of one of my
great qualities, you know, what makes me great or something,
and this person took it as an opportunity to rip
me a new one. And it was like, holy what.
(38:41):
I realized in that moment that he had a lot
of baggage that he wanted to unload on me, right,
and this was a moment where he did. I only
bring this up because sometimes people are unaware of it
and like you say, we can be passive aggressive and
it's wrong on it every level. And if it happens,
(39:02):
you got to call it out, like like, hey, it
seems like you've got a lot of stuff there, buddy,
what's going on?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Like right direct behind see you just you did it exactly. Yeah.
I love that idea of do more. So you notice
the thing, you get the feedback that it's positive for
someone else, do it more. Just more. It's that simple.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
It's that simple. Yeah, that hard. I thought about writing
a thirty first chapter, which is this stuff is so easy,
it's easy to not do.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I agree with that. That'll be our thirty first chapter.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
It's going to be our thirty first chapter. You're going
to talk about this so that we can help more
people get it. Yeah, it is easy, and therefore it's
easy to not do. Yeah, and therefore you know people
can live great lives. This will make your life greater,
Like I live a great life. I like that this
has made my life greater. Yeah, I don't complain as much.
(40:00):
I am not as sarcastic and cutting. I don't gossip
about other people as much. I refrain, I refrain from
joining negative fray. I'm way better as a husband. I'm
a better friend. And I'm not saying that the brag.
I just know that I am just from I'm behaving
more better.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah. I'm sure you're getting the feedback that it's more
better as well.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, Well, the book is be the Sun not the Salt.
And I know you just mentioned your podcast producer. You
also have started a podcast under the same name. Can
you tell us a little bit about the podcast.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yes, the podcast Be the Sun Not the Salt. We
have guests on who are exemplars who embody these principles
and have interesting stories and hopefully we'll inspire and equip
and remind the listeners to be their best selves more often.
We also do five and ten minute little gentle nudges
(40:57):
sort of based on that, sort of based on the chapter,
like okay, let's do today's chapter hold the Salt. Here's
our take on what this means. I hope you find
this helpful, so short versions of the whole book so
that we can get more people, and maybe you can
be on our podcast.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Kellen, I would love that. Well, just to wrap it
up for the listeners, I am going to put the
link to the book, and I'm assuming the podcast can
be found wherever you listen to podcasts. Yes where else
could people keep up with you if they're interesting and
following you this son?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
I love that you asked Be the Sun Notothsalt dot com.
We've put lots of free videos and every podcast like
this on our website. There's lots of resources. We try
and create more ways to nudge and remind people. Merchandise,
(41:51):
little books and t shirts and coffee months and notebooks
to help people, and podcasts and videos and free tips
and newsletters, all to help us be our best selves
more often.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
I love it. I'm going to keep it by my
bed and read in the mornings. It's so yeah, it's
just tangible tips, like you guys know I always talk about.
So thank you so much for being here. It was
so lovely to meet you, and I'm very glad I
found your book.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Thank you, Kelly.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Thank you guys so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,
where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a
little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,
and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.
Conversations on life, style, beauty and relationships. It's the Velvet's
Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Doctor Harry Cohen is here and before I give you
guys all his credentials, he and I were just having
a wonderful chat that I thought I need to bring
the listeners in on this because I was just having
this conversation with a friend recently and it was interesting
because we started talking about all of the constructs that
we found ourselves in and just how limited our thought
(00:32):
process was about I can do this, but I don't
can't do that. I'm stuck here. I'm stuck in this
city because of X, Y and Z. And my friend
literally said to me, but why why do we live
that way? And you were just telling me something very similar,
So can you kind of repeat what you just told
me in an overall sense for the listeners because you're
(00:54):
down in South Beach, live in a lovely life right now.
You're typically from Michigan, so we know it's called and
you were just telling me and describing how great it is,
So let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yes, So how great it is wherever you are and
what I was saying to you, and you said, Wow,
you seem to have life figured out. I said, yes,
I do. It took me this long. I'm seventy I
and I I'm actually not seventy until March eighteenth, but
I'm spending but I'm spending the month here, you know,
with friends and family coming to visit, because I know
(01:26):
how nutritious and delicious environment is. And I was saying
to you, curate your life, create your life to fill
it with nutritious and delicious nutrients like sunlight, like friendship,
like purpose, like exercise, like eating good food, like environments
(01:46):
that are healthy and good for you, like warm, beautiful settings.
And if you think you can't do it, it's your mindset.
Well there's nothing on this menu to eat. Yes there is.
You just have to look harder to find the really healthy,
really good for you stuff when it's not as a parent,
(02:08):
and so structure your life and mostly structure your minds,
like wait, what is getting in the way of living
a perfectly wonderful life. Whatever that is, well, then figure
it out. I was down on the beach just now
with a woman who she's in her forties. She's got
a nine year old and a five year old, and
(02:28):
her boyfriend was somewhere else. So she was doing kid
duty the whole time, and she said, you know, sometimes
I feel like I should have my head examined, you know,
being a single parent for these two kids Jesus so difficult.
And other times I just count my blessings and I
feel so lucky. I said to her. For the times
that you feel crappy, remember why you have those blessing
(02:51):
counting days, because that's that's what it's about, those two
beautiful kids. They're healthy and good, and she's doing a
great job being a mom to them. You know, NonStop
sells and you know stuff. But this work, this effort
of ours to live great lives, takes a little bit
of work, not a lot, a bit of work, a
(03:12):
little bit of work. If you're not having a great day,
well why not. You're in charge of your day?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, right right? Why do our minds immediately go to
the limiting belief? I know your background is in psychology,
So is there something to that that we just pick
up on? The limiting belief?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, it's our minds are wired
to see the glass half empty, okay, and it's designed
from an evolutionary point of view to keep you safe
when you hear When you hear something in the forest,
it immediately construe it is something negative to protect you
a saber tooth tiger. It's nothing. But that's just how
(03:54):
our minds are wired. Therefore, if you know that, you
know you have to do a little extra work to
see glass half full. Oh right, I was noticing my obstacles,
not my goal. Good, that's okay. Now move towards your goal.
In other words, if you have a goal with obstacles
(04:14):
in the way of it, you have to folks, you know, like,
oh damn it, the obstacles. That's okay, So go around them,
go through them, go over them, go under them, go
on a different road. But that's how our minds are wired.
Don't don't beat yourself up, don't think twice. Just know like,
oh right, I gotta work a little extra harden to
see the beauty in this magnificent life of ours.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It's almost like anything else, it seems, where once you
have the awareness and you can recognize it, you just
try to switch the narrative in your brain. Yeah, that
actually sounds as simple it is.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, by the way you can switch the narrative, there's
a lot of different things that you can do, and
you should do them all, but do whatever works for you.
Switch the narrative in your brain. Good, talk to a
different person who can help you good. Get into a
different environment physically. Nature is almost always resetting and healing
(05:12):
for most people. Go take a walk, you know, readjust
your perspective. Pick up Via the Sun and open up
to any page. They're all interchangeably good. Pick up any
book that you love and that you've underlined and highlighted,
and read something that uplifts you. Listen to music that
(05:35):
gets you out of your frame of mind, your negative
frame of mind. Do whatever you gotta do to get
you in the right frame of mind. And then take
an action. You know, this is really important to do something,
not just think differently. Act, Go say a kind word
(05:58):
to somebody, somebody a sweet text. Now I just rattled
off ten different things.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well I'm sure one of them spoke to each listener
in a different way. So, like you're saying, pick what
works for you and find find your own methods. As
I mentioned, you do have a background in psychology and
executive coaching, and you just mentioned your book Be the
Sun Not the Salt, which is rooted in the Is
it heliotropic, yes, oh, I say.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
That baleotropic effect, the heliotropic effect, the ileeotropic effects. Okay,
it is what happens to all living creatures when we're
drawn to positive energy, which is why a plant tilts
towards the sun. And the metaphor is be the sun
like the leaves on the plant, and not salt on
(06:50):
its roots, not salt of the earth. That's another way
of talking about good human beings. But the metaphors. Don't
salt someone's roots. Don't be a negative energy, critical, cynical, nasty, unconscious, disrespectful,
and on and on. Rather do the kind, nice, compassionate, grateful,
sweet thing for yourself and someone else. That's the filter
(07:14):
through which I look at the world. I wrote this
book so that it would be a timeless, timeless tool,
and thank god, it's turned out to be that way.
So I wrote it years ago and it's still in
the sales continue to increase as people discover it, which
is great. It hasn't changed. It's not like, oh, you
(07:35):
need a new message, No I don't. I just need
to practice this one more better, right, every you know,
just this past year, not this, not this not twenty five,
twenty four. I started every single day day of the month.
What day is it, Oh, it's the twelfth today? What chapter? Oh,
chapter twelve? What's that chapter? I wrote the book? I
(07:57):
couldn't tell you. The only reason I know today is
because I read it and I do this morning practice.
Takes me a minute to read the chapter, and I
think about how am I going to apply that for
myself today? To sit. Today's chapter is hold the salt.
That means don't say the narky thing that you think.
And so I think about, well, how can I apply
(08:18):
that today? Well, today I wrote this morning to one
hundred people while I'm on this podcast the velvet edge,
and I guess we're going to be talking about the
edge part of the velvet edge, because that smells like
salty behavior to me. I don't know what your podcast
is about, but when you said that everyone has a
velvet side and an edge side.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yeah, well I'm here to tell you that edge can cut, yes,
and we humans need to be extremely mindful to not inadvertently,
unintentionally and unconsciously cut someone else with that edge.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Jut, so we have to practice this. It's not like
I yet practice but I think snarky, sarcastic, nasty things
I just don't need to say right.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
The interesting thing I was going to say about this
book that I love is, first of all, I love
a tangible tool. That's my favorite thing to give listeners. Yes,
and so when I'm doing this podcast and any guest
that I have has a tangible tool that it's my
favorite thing, which this book is. I mean, I got
the book last night. I think your publisher shifted to me,
(09:33):
and I read it in an hour today. It's an
easy read. It's not anything that's going to take you
months and months and months. But I thought to myself,
I know all these principles, yep. But I love the
idea of reading one with the chapter of the month
or whatever it is, because the putting them into practice
is what I need. The reminders on.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Kelly me too, and I wrote the book.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah it's Kelly.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
It's no different. My hope and wish is that every
one of your listeners goes and gets it and then
gives it to somebody else, gives it to somebody else. Yeah,
get another one. I've been and I'd love for you
to share with your listeners, or you can text me
or call me, and he's like, ooh, I got a
great story to tell you. What great? Because let's spread
this to the world. It has helped me, it has
(10:16):
helped one thousand, thousands of people. That's helped some more
because it's easy, it's accessible. You don't have to do
anything other than oh right, ah right, I could do that.
And I am discovering new stuff. And I wrote the
book and still am discovering new stuff that I can
(10:40):
apply every single frickin' day. And I love that, Kelly.
It doesn't get old. And I can't tell you what
tomorrow's chapter is. I just know that it's thirteen, and
I'll look at it and go, oh nice, yeah, and
then let's see if I can practice it, because no,
I mean there's chapter and they're knowing, isn't doing Just
(11:01):
because we know this stuff doesn't mean we do it.
I'm married forty five years in August this year, and
I just figured out this sentence to say. Now, I
haven't been saying it because I'm not home and my
wife's back in Michigan, but I say, every morning, is
(11:21):
there anything you need for me to do for you today?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
What a simple sentence that could make such a big
change for.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Everybody for me. I mean, you know, she'll think about
it and say, well, actually, if you could, okay, I
had no problem, or no, I don't think so, but
if I do, you know, great okay, or yeah, you
know what if you could clean up that pilot debris
that's been sitting Yeah, okay, it's just great. And I
say that to say, how come I didn't know that before? Well, whatever,
(11:53):
I didn't, I'm open to learning more. I can't wait
to learn more new stuff like these are tools that
I use that we can help the world use that
makes everyone's life just this much better. And I can't
wait for people before I die if I can see it, like,
holy crap, Kelly, we did it. You helped me do it.
(12:14):
This is part of the zeitgeist of the culture where
people say I'm sorry I was a bit salty, and
then they do the next right thing, right, Okay, you
know there was no excuse for me doing that, and
I apologize for doing it. Awesome, How great would that be?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I totally agree, Kelly.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Let me just stop and appreciate you and say thank
you for reading the book. And I do these podcasts
because my publicists like you say, books me on them.
And I got to say, sometimes people don't take the
time to read the book, which takes less than an hour,
or even open it up and look at it. And
(12:59):
I so you for doing that. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Of course it actually helped me so much today. And
I wanted to comment on a couple things that you
just said because and I think we're doing it right
now as well with what you just said. But all
of the little statements that you mentioned as examples that
you could say to your wife, and you know they
sound so simple, right, but often we just don't do them.
And how connecting are those statements even just the question
(13:26):
asking the question? Like you said, there may not be
anything she needs, but immediately that's a connecting sequence between
you guys. And I'm wondering because I know we've talked
a little bit about I mean, the book is called
Be the Sun Not the Salt. You and I mentioned
you're down in South Beach, you're enjoying the sun, and
you encouraged me to do all the things that nourish me.
(13:48):
And all of that is about, you know, positive uplifting
behavior that we can incorporate into our lives. Becoming these
positive effective people. What I've learned about our society, though,
is people seem to operate best with a solution that
they think they need to a problem that they have.
So my question for you is, why do we need
(14:10):
to care about being a positive impact kind of person?
Why does our society need that? What are the benefits
that you think things like you wrote about in your
book could bring to our world right now?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
So, when human beings are their best selves, when we
are virtuous, kind, compassionate, good listeners, dependable, truthful, and on
and on. When we are like that, when we are
our best selves by being genuinely virtuous, authentic, and vulnerable
(14:53):
and all the rest. I say all the rest presuming
that people know what I mean, but we'll go into them.
If you want everybody benefits. First of all, you benefit.
You can show it in your blood pressure and in
your blood Other people just being around you, being in
your presence, feel the positive energy of your good living.
(15:18):
Why do I like that guy? Well, the answer is
because he listened to you, He cared about you, he
went out of his way for you. He showed you
that he was willing to do the extra work for
the desired result, all of those are kind of like yeah,
motherhood and apple pie. It's how all mothers and fathers
(15:40):
want to raise their children to be good human beings.
So an answer, well, what's the payoff? What's in it
for us? We feel better and people around us feel better? Period.
Now I can go on and say you're more effective
also as a leader, as a parent, as a friend.
(16:03):
Mainly people like to be around you and feel better
in your presence. Now, what the hell is there is
the downside of that? Right? There isn't any you know,
and so that's like, well, why should people care? Well,
they'll be happier, more fulfilled, and people around them will
(16:25):
want to be around them more. How's that like? If
that isn't enough you know some people, how's that going
to make me more money? Well, if you're in sales,
people are going to want to buy from you. Well
what if you're not in sales? Okay? I mean, you know,
if people want to know, what's the with them? What's
in it for me to practice being more heliotropic? We
(16:50):
can walk you through it, but it should be pretty
obvious in that when you are your best self, you
dig it and everybody around you anybody around you digs it.
So our job is to be our best self, not
somebody else more often, more frequently.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, it's so easy and so obvious and so good.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I don't want it to be more complicated. Like, well,
certain people aren't interested, Okay, I'm not just talking to them,
so be it. Whatever they got, I mean, their heads up,
their ass. I don't know, I can't imagine. I think
it's because people are, you know, in the Moslows hierarchy
of needs. They're just trying to survive and get by.
(17:39):
They're just trying to put food on the table. They're
just trying to get through the day. They can't think
of anything else other than getting through the day. And
for those people, it's still good.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
It's still good if they can refrain from snapping, if
when they get triggered they don't say the snarky, nasty thing.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
And yeah, that only patuates the problem, right.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
It only makes things worse. Like, so, what's the downside
of salty behavior? There's a million downsides, and they're all bad,
you know, like, well how bad, okay, from minor bad
to really major bad. You know, calling someone a nasty
name is bad. What do you mean by that? Okay,
(18:22):
I'm not going to explain it to you, but you know,
like you really need me to explain to you why
it's bad to call somebody a nasty name. I can
do that, but work with me here. Yeah, it's not good.
You want to be effective in life, you can't be
doing that. Yeah, And so we can be better human beings, period,
full stop. You just pick where you want to be
(18:45):
better and be better, period. And what I know, I'm
a good human being. Let's say ninety out of one
hundred times I do the right thing. Great, my job
is to go for ninety one out of one hundred.
And you say, well, what for nineties? Pretty damn good?
You're right me personally, I like the joy of working
(19:08):
it getting better. So ninety one is a goal for
someone else. Ninety is plenty good. They're fine being a
dick ten times out of one hundred, and I'm not
going to convince the otherwise.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, you know. Well, And like you say in the book,
I mean you've kind of mentioned this chapter as well,
but there's a whole chapter on apology that I thought
was so good because you talk about the different ways
that we just don't really seem to know how to apologize.
So for the ninety percent that you're good, that's great,
But then there is always going to be the ten
(19:43):
percent or whatever the percentage would be, because we are human, right, Yes,
these things will happen, and there's still a positive thing
you can take from that and go into repair if
you know how to apologize.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Exactly, and the repair can be better than the boogoo
even afterwards, which is for those people who aren't going
to get the book, you can get it an audible
for four bucks. But the apology is less words. Mean
what you say and express genuine regret and take responsibility.
(20:17):
I'm done, I'm sorry for being late to the meeting.
There's no excuse. It won't happen again.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I couldn't even really have anything to say back to that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Other than good, I accept your apology. Right. I had
a zoom earlier today and the guy was five minutes late,
and I wanted to make a point of saying, hey,
what happened, because it's not cool to be late to
a meeting for the first time with someone you don't know.
And we talked about it. It's some technical difficulties, I said, dude,
(20:51):
I completely understand. Thank you. Apology accepted. You apologize, I said,
apology accepted, I will. It is less than a molecule
or an atom. In my mind, it doesn't even exist.
But if it did, if you told me, oh, yeah,
I was rushing. I forgot I had this meeting, I
would have said to you, dude, don't do that again,
(21:13):
because people aren't going to experience it as okay. My
tip to you is, don't forget the meeting now. I
also have a pet peeve of being on time, and
when people are late, it bothers me, and I know
that I have to let that go because I just
cop an irritated attitude in a self justified, righteous bullshit way.
(21:37):
So I know that it's okay for people to be
late and me to get over it. Both can be
simultaneously true. It's not okay to be late. People should
apologize if they are, and if they are late, it's
no big deal, Harry, get over it.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah. Well, I love that you mentioned why people can
benefit even in the workplace, and I think that's obviously
a lot of your background as well as an executive coach.
You would go to these big corporations help them learn
how to communicate with each other and really kind of
incorporate a lot of the principles in the book into
just their daily lives. Once people would start incorporating these
(22:12):
kind of principles and the jobs that you were doing
with them, would you notice why people would start to
gravitate towards other people? And what's the energy behind that?
What's the purpose? Why does that happen?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
So people love being around positive energizers. That's the research
that I discovered, fell upon and said, oh my god,
So all the stuff that I teach and preach and
believe in and have read about for them. You mean
this is scientifically proven. Yes, it is. So people perform
better like to be around positive energizers in corporate America.
(22:45):
Holy alito.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Okay, so you can cuss on here. It's fine, My
listeners are used to it.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
O good. Holy shit. Then right, that means if people
perform better around positive leaders and positive energizers, let's help
more leaders be in positions of power and express all
these positive qualities and lo and behold, people do love
to work with and for and around them. The challenge
(23:14):
is that, because like you said, we are human, the
greatest leaders in the world are human too, and they
too can lose their cool, lose their temper, lose their shit,
and it's way worse than the average bear because they're
in the position, Oh my god, the chief cheese, you know,
was really disappointed with me. And you know, those those
(23:38):
salty expressions are more cutting and they last longer and
therefore more damaging and dangerous. So it's even more important
for leaders to be very mindful that they don't salt
other people's roots when they get triggered, when they get frustrated,
when they get disappointed, or whatever reasons they didn't have
(24:00):
a good night's sleep or whatever happened in the morning,
all those reasons are not okay for them to not
have a good day. Leaders need to always have a
good day. They can't be quote having a bad day.
What's up with that. You're responsible for all these people's lives.
You having a bad day is going to make them
(24:21):
have a bad day. So, in the answer to your question,
everybody wins when people deliberately try their best to be
their best selves or what we would call be the
sun and not the salt. And there will always be
times for them to lose it and then they can
do the next right thing, say they're human sa, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
There is so much more pressure on leaders. I've not
thought about it through that lens, but to not be
able to have a bad day feels almost inhumane, you know,
like it's just you're bad.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
That's get paid for.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
But that is what they get paid for. And I
love that you're bringing up the danger in not doing
that as a leader, because the power structure being off
goes back to us talking about like people's threat to security. Right,
So if the leader is coming down on you, it
threatens your security in a way that would be startling.
(25:18):
So then their behavior threatens your security, probably makes you
go off in all of these different tangents of negativity
and salt, which then spreads that out more because you're threatened, right,
and we as humans, when we're threatened, seem to act out.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
That's exactly right. And these are things that are unconscious
human nature habits. Right, That no big deal, Ferris Wheel.
You just go oh, yeah, yeah, I got yeah, I
have a tendency to do that. I gotta knock that off. Good,
that's it. Don't overthink this. Just make it really simple
for your listeners. Don't overthink it. Smile at a stranger
(25:55):
deliberately and watch what happens.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Oh that's so true. I totally believe yea.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Literally, the easiest thing to do is is smile and
know that you're going to uplift them with your with
your smile, or hold the door for someone deliberately that's
a little bit further down the street and they go,
oh my god, you're so kind that thank you so much.
You don't need to do that, I know it's okay.
Just do it deliberately, knowing that you're literally pouring some
(26:23):
on their leaves, and watch what happens. Your life will
be better and then you can look for more cool things.
The guy behind you in the Starbucks line, buy him coffee.
Let the guy merge wave. You know you're listening to
somebody bitch about somebody else, and you instead of saying, yeah,
you know what else I can't stand? Don't say anything
(26:43):
or walk away or say you know what, I it's
true about him, but you know what I do love
about him. Blah blah blah. Just be changing air to
be the force of goodness and love and light. Be that.
Remember remember that you have the power. We have the
power to make people. This is the Maya Angel quote.
(27:05):
We have the power to make people feel all kinds
of things. So knowing that we have that power.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Make them feel great, Yeah, deliberately like.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
It's your job, Like, well, what's my job? My job
is to make people feel great. If you're out to dinner,
server comes up to you, rather than just start in
just saying how's your day, nobody asks servers that.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Right, It's more about what can you do for me?
One of the overall messages I believe about when we're
operating from our best place is that is truly probably
our most authentic place. So I want to know why
(27:54):
is that so attractive? Why do you think authenticity is
such a big attractor? Because I'm seeing it on a
cultural level. We're so oversaturated and the things that seem
to be shining out differently are the things that are
the most authentic.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Authenticity is an attractor like many other virtuous qualities, and
the questions why are they all attractors? They stimulate different
parts of our being, probably from an evolutionary point of view,
to say that's good for you. Those berries will kill you,
Those berries are good for you. Okay, So vulnerability is
(28:30):
an attractor. Compassion is an attractor, Gratitude is an attractor.
Authenticity is an attractor. Love is an attractor. When you
feel genuine love from another human being, It's like, I
don't know why I feel that way. Well, that's why.
I don't know why specifically authenticity is, or specifically why
(28:52):
vulnerability or compassion or gratitude or generosity. But I know
these virtues are heliotrope. We like people who are this way.
All humans like people who are generous and authentic and
vulnerable and grateful. So huh what is that? It's like, well,
why does a flower, the fragrance of a flower generally
(29:17):
smell delightful to us humans? I don't know, but you
know they do, but it just does. Why does garbage
or putrid, putrid smells, rotting flesh smell, Well, it's from
an evolutionary perspective. Stay away from that, right, probably designed
(29:37):
to keep us alive. Don't go near putrid smell bad idea,
Go to fragrance, Go where the love is, right, go
where the juice is. And I think these qualities are
where the love is, where the juices, vulnerability, authenticity, gratitude, compassion, curiosity,
(30:04):
those are all qualities. They're like, ooh, I love that. Yeah,
so does everybody. So cultivate that. What we mean by
cultivate generosity, be generous. Hold the door is generous. Give
someone a blessing or a smile, that's generous. Buy somebody
a cup of coffee. Well, now you're talking money, Okay, okay,
don't so don't buy them a coffee, you know, yeah,
(30:27):
how do you? You know? Gratitude is such a lovely quality.
When someone says I really appreciate you, it's both nice,
thank you, but it also is it's nice that you
can appreciate Yeah, I know, and express it. So I
like universal truths and and I want to draft on
(30:51):
the back wheel of universal truths. What is it about enlightened, wonderful,
magnificent people that we are all attract to. Oh I
want to be like that?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah right, good?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Do that good.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It's just a positive effect again, all over again.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
All over again, uplifting goodness and the edge thing again,
I don't know what your your podcast is genuine. I
mean the velvet edge. I like the velvet. I'd put
the velvet over the edge just because I don't want
that edge part, which you're correct, about I heard this
great quote. We all everyone has a scar in the
(31:31):
exact shape of someone's words. You know that edge that
you speak of on your podcast. It can be nasty.
I want people to be very mindful of our edges
up plural, so that I don't cut you, I don't
make you bleed, I don't hurt you, even if it's inadvertently. Now,
(31:56):
the question often comes out, well, how do you hold
people accountable and how do you get your kids to
do X, Y and Z and idio. Well, you can
just you know, loving and demanding and straightforward and respectful
and direct.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I was just going to use that word. I have
actually found that the more direct and honest I am
in a kind way, the more people trust me. It's
so interesting how it all seems to work together, because
I think we walk on eggshells so many times, so
afraid to say our truth to people. But it's because
we only put the truth in this category of harshness,
(32:32):
and there are always ways to deliver it kindly.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Thank you the last sentence underline and hope your listeners
get which is well she said to be direct. She said,
there's ways to deliver a direct message kindly. Well, how
do you know whether you do that in the person
you're speaking to, they receive it and go all right, Okay,
(32:56):
I hear you. That's fair, Okay, I got it. Not
I love we told me. Someone might say thank you
for being that direct, good, You're welcome, and some might
just say got it. We're in the business of helping
people be better people, right, and I'm a people. I
want to be better people. It's not like I've got
it together. I'm I'm good. I want to be good.
I want to be gooder.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Right, It's a constant evolution. Okay, Well, so we're attracting
all these people because we're so positive and we're using
all these tools. Obviously, you are in relationship at that
point because you've got people around you everywhere, So whether
that's work, romantic friendship, all of that. I know that
you have three tips for keeping relationships cool, which we
kind of touched on. It's just some of them now.
(33:38):
But I need to know these tips because I think
my listeners are always wanting to learn how to be
better in relationship, and I just figure you might have
some really good ones.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Well, first of all, I don't know that I have
three Oh, I mean I.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Mean how many, however many.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Infinite infinite Okay. The way to think about all your relationships,
depending on who they are, there's so many ways to
pour into them goodness and not not pour into them
badness as salt, obnoxious comments or behaviors that make their
(34:20):
life worse. So anything that we can do that uplifts
and helps the other is fantastic. Do more of it.
So when you notice what you do with your relationships
that work out well that the other goes, wow, thank you, sweete.
I appreciate that. Kelly, you make a mental note ooh,
(34:42):
do more of that. I know what to do now,
and then just make a mental note of anything that
we do that makes the other person feel good or
say thank you. Go ooh. There's another one in the list,
and they're pretty basic. Do what you mean, what you say,
(35:02):
say what you mean, don't say it mean, don't say
anything cutting. Always look to be helpful. When something irritates you,
decide is this worth bringing up and talking about or
should I let it go? I don't know. You can
think about it and if it's worth bringing up, do
what you just did in a kind and direct way,
(35:24):
Say that doesn't work for me, and so the infinite ways,
and all you're interested in is getting that relationship more better,
improving it. You know, there's you know the you know
the love languages. Those are just five categories, right, gifts,
words of praise, acts of service, quality time.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
And physical touch.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
With physical touch, thank you so well, what kind of
physical you can do?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
A million?
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Physically? Can I give you a background? Can I give
you a foot? Rub, holding hand? Just just well, the
those are five different physical touches. What do you what
kind of acts of service? Let me? Let me?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Let me do the dishes, right, take the out, make
the budget whatever.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
They're infinite. Well, what kind of gifts they're infinite? Yeah,
and the words of praise, Oh my god, well, which
ones the ones that will make him or her say, oh,
thank you, that was so sweet? Oh that's really oh
you you don't need to say that. You don't need
to do that, you know, Yeah, of course you don't
(36:33):
need to. That's why you're doing it, not because you
need to. It's like looking at a plant and you go,
what does that plant need? It needs water, needs sunlight,
it needs fertilizer, It needs a steak so that it
doesn't fall over. It needs a bigger pot. Now, all
of those different things are because you look at the
plant and you go, what does it need? I think
(36:54):
it's pretty healthy, good water, regularly, give it a little fertilizer,
make sure you put it in the sun. Temperature okay,
how's the humidity whatever. No different for human beings, and
the tinier the better. Don't overthink. Just do the tiniest
sweet thing, like tell a loved one how much you
(37:18):
appreciate them and why. I mean, as long as you're
direct and kind and don't say you know you're a
lot better than you used to be.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Right, don't use it as a time to be passive
aggressed exactly.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I mean we say that like it's like everyone should
already know that, but some people. I once did an
exercise where you had to ask someone who knew you, well,
what are your unique wonderful qualities? Not as an ego boost,
but as a as a way of having someone else
articulate in absolute, specific terms the things that make you great.
(37:57):
And it's a wonderful exercise because you can then go, yeah, good,
I can I do that. One woman I asked my
podcast producer and she said, well, you invest in people's
vision in a really authentic way that makes them believe
that they can do it. I thought, that's a beautiful
thing to say, thank you. I do do that and
I appreciate she said that, but it made me realize
(38:18):
I could do that more. I could way do that more,
and it's great. So I asked once. This is many
years ago, I asked a person of one of my
great qualities, you know, what makes me great or something,
and this person took it as an opportunity to rip
me a new one. And it was like, holy what.
(38:41):
I realized in that moment that he had a lot
of baggage that he wanted to unload on me, right,
and this was a moment where he did. I only
bring this up because sometimes people are unaware of it
and like you say, we can be passive aggressive and
it's wrong on it every level. And if it happens,
(39:02):
you got to call it out, like like, hey, it
seems like you've got a lot of stuff there, buddy,
what's going on?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Like right direct behind see you just you did it exactly. Yeah.
I love that idea of do more. So you notice
the thing, you get the feedback that it's positive for
someone else, do it more. Just more. It's that simple.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
It's that simple. Yeah, that hard. I thought about writing
a thirty first chapter, which is this stuff is so easy,
it's easy to not do.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I agree with that. That'll be our thirty first chapter.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
It's going to be our thirty first chapter. You're going
to talk about this so that we can help more
people get it. Yeah, it is easy, and therefore it's
easy to not do. Yeah, and therefore you know people
can live great lives. This will make your life greater,
Like I live a great life. I like that this
has made my life greater. Yeah, I don't complain as much.
(40:00):
I am not as sarcastic and cutting. I don't gossip
about other people as much. I refrain, I refrain from
joining negative fray. I'm way better as a husband. I'm
a better friend. And I'm not saying that the brag.
I just know that I am just from I'm behaving
more better.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah. I'm sure you're getting the feedback that it's more
better as well.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, Well, the book is be the Sun not the Salt.
And I know you just mentioned your podcast producer. You
also have started a podcast under the same name. Can
you tell us a little bit about the podcast.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Yes, the podcast Be the Sun Not the Salt. We
have guests on who are exemplars who embody these principles
and have interesting stories and hopefully we'll inspire and equip
and remind the listeners to be their best selves more often.
We also do five and ten minute little gentle nudges
(40:57):
sort of based on that, sort of based on the chapter,
like okay, let's do today's chapter hold the Salt. Here's
our take on what this means. I hope you find
this helpful, so short versions of the whole book so
that we can get more people, and maybe you can
be on our podcast.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Kellen, I would love that. Well, just to wrap it
up for the listeners, I am going to put the
link to the book, and I'm assuming the podcast can
be found wherever you listen to podcasts. Yes where else
could people keep up with you if they're interesting and
following you this son?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
I love that you asked Be the Sun Notothsalt dot com.
We've put lots of free videos and every podcast like
this on our website. There's lots of resources. We try
and create more ways to nudge and remind people. Merchandise,
(41:51):
little books and t shirts and coffee months and notebooks
to help people, and podcasts and videos and free tips
and newsletters, all to help us be our best selves
more often.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
I love it. I'm going to keep it by my
bed and read in the mornings. It's so yeah, it's
just tangible tips, like you guys know I always talk about.
So thank you so much for being here. It was
so lovely to meet you, and I'm very glad I
found your book.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Thank you, Kelly.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Thank you guys so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,
where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a
little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,
and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Kelly Henderson
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com