April 23, 2025 • 54 mins
Curious about what your Chiron placement means — and why it matters so much? In this episode, Kelly is joined by certified Evolutionary Astrologer Jill Brown to explore how Chiron (known as the “wounded healer”) reveals your soul’s deepest healing work and karmic patterns from past lives.
Jill breaks down the difference between evolutionary and traditional astrology, and shows how understanding placements like Chiron and rare aspects like a Yod (aka “the Finger of God”) can lead to real transformation. Using Kelly’s chart as a real-time example, she walks listeners through how to identify and work with these powerful placements in their own lives.
Whether you’re navigating a Saturn return, healing from shame, or just astrology-curious, this episode blends cosmic insight with practical tools — reminding us that deep healing can come with lightness, humor, and clarity.
Visit Jill's website: http://www.eightstars.co/
Follow Jill on Instagram: @eightstarsastrology
HOST: Kelly Henderson // @velvetsedge // velvetsedge.com
Follow Velvet's Edge on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/velvetsedge/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's
Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Jill Brown is here, And before I get into all
her credentials, I found the part of your story that
was so fascinating to me. You have a background in aeronautics,
you're a pilot, you worked at NASA, so you're a scientist.
And so many people say to me, is astrology really real?
And I'm like, no, I have the sciences here today,
(00:33):
she's here to tell us this is real. So how
did that background for you really play into you getting
into evolutionary astrology, which we'll explain in a minute too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So, I actually grew up in Alaska, and one in
forty five people in Alaska is a pilot. It's the
highest per capita pilots anywhere, I think in the world actually,
And so I grew up with all these friends whose
parents had planes, and a lot of Alaska isn't accessible
except for my airplane in the winter, but even like
the water freezes over the road system ends, et cetera.
So I grew up just hearing the sound of little
(01:07):
airplanes around all the time, and it just became fascinated
by aviation, and then, funny enough, I went and got
a degree in marketing and worked in Los Angeles for
almost a decade. I used to work at Walt Disney
Music Group and Disney Publishing, so I was in the
music group at Disney for a lot different Yeah, yeah, exactly,
very different world. I loved working at Disney. I loved
all the creative people there, and I love, love, love music,
(01:30):
so that was very cool. But I was spending all
of my salary on flying lessons and flying, but kind
of went maybe I should get into my passion, which
is aviation. So I went back to school and got
a master's degree in aeronautics and then got an internship
at NASA through grad school that ended up becoming in
a full time position, and so I worked in drones
(01:50):
and unmanned operating systems for a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, you have worked up in space, You've seen the planets,
you've seen the stars. How would you explain to someone
who's as is astrology real? Like? Where is that connection?
How do we make the scientific connection to help people
understand that astrology is basically a map for us.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I think the thing that was interesting for me is
and maybe you felt like this too. But I've always
kind of grew up feeling like I had two parts
of me, and one part of me was very logical
and like scientific and interested in that, and then there
was this other part of me that was very spiritual.
So I never felt like I was so spiritual or
religious that there was no space for science or fact
(02:30):
or you know, the kind of proven, factual world. But
I also never felt a part of like just the
straight scientific community where there was no space for magic
and there was no space for the unexplained, and there
was no space for that part. And so what I
found is astrology for me, really marries those two worlds
kind of beautifully because you have the proven astrophysics and
(02:51):
astronomy and aeronautical charts and things that we use to navigate.
Even celestial navigation is still used even in aeronautics today, right,
or space launches or whatever. We're still subject to the
forces of nature. I mean, one of the biggest things
with space launches is they'll scrap them because of weather, right,
which all of us are trying to predict but can't control.
So no matter how scientific we are, we are subjected
(03:13):
to this natural world. As well, and so astrology to
me is also a science and a study, and then
there's also space for intuition, and there's space for interpretation,
and there's space for things coming through in people's chart
that's maybe the chart behind the chart, and that's what
evolutionary astrology is is kind of the chart that's behind
(03:33):
the chart, and what's deeper, what's karmic, was actually happening
there beyond just the technical and so that's what attracted
me to it. And actually what attracted me was when
I had a reading, I found out I had a yod,
which you have and we'll talk about that in a second,
which I'm very excited about.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
We see a yod is called.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
The finger of Destiny or the finger of God. They're
very rare. It's a very very big placement. But it
also was speaking to me about chiron, and chiron is
a placement in many people's chart. If you're just sort
of you know, getting into astrology or new to astrology,
you may not have heard about, but it can be
a really deeply transformational place in people's chart. And so
(04:13):
I love chiron, and my chiron was part of my
yach and my focalizem and all this stuff in my
chart that was really important in my life at that time,
and this evolutionary astrologer read my chart and I was jokes,
she kind of read me for filth, but I was like,
who is this woman? She has my day of birth?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Wow, she's seeing me like this. Yes, yes, I.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Have not to go too into the weeds, but like
abuse in my childhood and some other things that had
never been talked about that were really just coming to
light from family members being courageous enough to speak about it.
And my chart and my chiron was all in the
fifth house, all in Taurus, all this conjunctions with the sun,
and all these very technical astrology aspects which are neither
(04:55):
here nor they're important to this conversation. But it felt
like being seen and added perfect time when I needed
to feel seen and validated. And it was like your
chart being like, no, this is real, this really happened
to you, and this is really your opportunity to transform
that and turn it into something really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
And that's so that's kind of where my my nerding
out on astrology.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Went, almost like therapy when it comes to that piece
of it, right, because you're seeing none of this happened
by mistake, and it's all here to help me grow,
which I know when I say that sometimes people, you know,
because when you look at the bad things in your life,
that can feel almost like a punishment if we look
at it that way, I feel like, like, oh, it
was supposed to help me grow. But I don't mean
(05:40):
it that way. I'm more so mean you know, these
things are mapped out in our lives, and then we're
given the chance to evolve from them or get closer
to ourselves, understand ourselves better, feel seen. All of that
comes from these big things that happen, and so astrology
for me has always just been a way to understand
that and get to know myself on a deeper level
(06:01):
so that I can go live out the purpose that
I'm here to live out. And I'm curious with the
evolutionary astrology piece you were kind of explaining to me before,
because I told you my listeners are really used to
talking about astrology because we have Marvin Wilkerson on here
every month, and we're talking more about the current transits
so that we can kind of navigate each month, know
(06:22):
the energy that's coming, and work with it in the
way that I'm just described as well. But what is
the difference, the main difference between what we're going to
talk about today and how you work with it and
that kind of astrology, like the transit type astrology.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Sure, so I think transits are very important and informative, right,
And I think of astrology like meteorology. Meteorology is a
science and we study and we map the environment, we
map the climate, and we map you know, hurricane trajectories
and other things based on scientific factors. But we can
never quite always predict the weather right right, And to
(06:59):
that's prology. It's giving us the cosmic forecast. These are
the energies at play, These are the planets that are moving,
These are the things that are happening out there in
the cosmos, and these are the energies that are likely
to show up in this forecast. But it's your interaction
with them that's going to determine what happens. And that's
two things. One is your birth chart, which evolutionary astrology
is really synthesizing your birth chart, and the other is
(07:21):
your interaction with it. So if I'm going to plant
a picnic this weekend, I would like to know what
the weather is going to be like to decide if
I need to do it indoors or outdoors. Astrology can
give me that kind of energetic forecast, but it's up
to me whether or not I'm going to have a
good picnic. Right, you can still have a great time
in the rain, you can have a bad time in
the sun. It's just your interaction with the forecast that's
going to determine what it is. So evolutionary astrology is
(07:45):
really looking at your specific birth chart. We use the
Placidus system. A lot of apps, a lot of astrology
apps will use whole house system. Nothing wrong with Oole's
House system, it's just different. So sometimes when I read
people's chart, they'll say, oh, well, I've always or my
you know, areas was in the sixth house. Why are
you saying it's in the seventh And I'm like, oh, well,
do you use one of the astrology apps? Yes, I do, Okay,
(08:07):
they use whole house astrology. And the reason for that
is it's very predictable. Right. It's like a lot easier
to segment a pie into twelve equal slices, okay, than
it is to segment it into these like individualized slices, right, Yeah,
so evolutionary astrology is just trying to put a little
bit finer point on it. Okay, And I think the
other difference with evolutionary astrology is we look at your nodes,
(08:28):
your seuth node in particular, and we look at the
self node as karmic implications from past lives, and the
idea is some type of unresolved karma that we came
into this life with that is part of our life's
journey to sort of master or to work out or
to come to sort of agreement with. That's all part
(08:51):
of evolutionary astrology.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, okay, So I've heard of placid is, but I
haven't personally worked with it A ton. I had a
friend and tell me some of my placements in a
Placidas chart and it was different. So I obviously operated
from this place of like, okay, I'm a cancer sign,
a Piscy's moon tourist rising, Like, yeah, I know all
of my whole sign or what is it called, whole house,
(09:16):
whole house astrology, whole house astrology. I know that chart
very well for me, but when it goes to placids,
if stuff changes, how do you then incorporate all that
knowing from the whole house chart into what you're learning
with placid is.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
So like I love Chowny Nichols and I have her app.
Yeah me too, but her app is whole house. So
someone might just if any of your planets are kind
of depending on their position, they might slide into a
new house, right, right, So it'll just change just a
little bit. So my advice to people is look at
it both ways, and you take what works and you
leave the rest.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Right, Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So when I do whole house astrology, my stellium shifts
into the sixth house, which is a house of service
and healing, which is a beautiful thing and actually kind
of speaks to some of the work I do. But
when I use placidic system, it's in the fifth house,
and that's the house of childhood and all of the
places where my past life karma came in. And that
(10:09):
felt a lot more authentic for me. Yeah, does that
make sense?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It does make sense. Okay, So it's I said it
wrong than the first time too, because I was mentioning
like cancer pilcis, it's your houses. It's just the houses
that are different in placidics.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, it should be the houses that land up differently.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So would you ever have a planet in a different sign?
I know you would have, don't You could have a
planet in a different house obviously in these two parts. Yeah,
would you ever have a house, I mean a planet
in a different sign?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I don't think so with the with the caveat of
your ascendant, right, because your snate is okay, like a
point on an ass house. So yeah, yes, yes, so
your ascendant could potentially shift. So that's pretty.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Interest right, Yeah, it seems like it would be.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, I could be a cap rising instead of you know,
so yeah, So just I think for people it's important
to look at it both ways and see which one resonates. Really,
I don't think any of them is wrong, it's just different,
a different lens of perspective. So I'm surprised that you
haven't heard about your yacht, because your yacht is.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
But is this been a placidest chart? Maybe this is
because I haven't really worked with that chart that much.
So this is where you go. But speaking of my yad, well,
I want you to explain to listeners what that is,
because I have heard this term, but I've actually never
really been explained all of the details of it, or
why you need it, why you would want to work
with it, or what it means or anything like that.
(11:36):
What I also want to say to you is we
brought up Chiron, and I know that that is like
a big piece of the yad for me, but it's
not for everyone. So which one should we start with with?
Explaining to people what they are, why we want to
work with these, what they taught you about yourself, and
things like that.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Let's start with the yacht because it's very fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So what is a yod.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So a yacht is just an aspect. I'm sure most
of your listeners have at least seen their chart once
and it's always laid out on a wheel, and so
all of your planets are all spread across that wheel,
and they're relating to each other in different ways, and
we call those relationships aspects. Right, So they're opposing one another,
that's the easiest one to understand. They're directly opposite one another.
(12:18):
That's just an aspect where there are ninety degrees apart
from one another. Okay, well there's another aspect. You know,
they're square each other. So when it gets to a yod,
it is just another aspect, it's three planets. It's a
yacht is a triangle, and it's three planets that are
interacting with each other in a really unique way. And
the biggest thing with a yacht if you look at
(12:39):
it in your chart, like I'll send you a copy
of your chart later, but it's like a very skinny,
skinny triangle. Yeah, and that is because your base is
being formed by two planets that are sixty degrees apart,
which is a kind of uncomfortable, little bit weird angle.
And then they're aspecting a planet that's actually at an
even more extreme angle. And so it's the extremity of
(13:01):
that angle that makes it a little uncomfortable. Because when
you have like a grand try and have you heard
of grand Trinds where it's a really beautiful equilateral triangle,
it's like, oh, these very comfortable, comfortable relationship with one another.
But your yod is it's making the three planets and
these three signs work in a way that's not necessarily
a place of comfort. Comfort, Okay, And we know that
(13:23):
growth comes from discomfort, right like I do my Jillian Michaels,
and she's always talking about get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, I'll do one more rep you know videos, Yes,
oh I've heard of that one.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
But it is my most like astrology based philosophy because
it's true that the growth comes from the discomfort, and
it's not always uncomfortable once we learn to integrate it.
But initial growth, initial change in my lived experience, is
always uncomfortable. And so odds are then called the finger
of destiny or the finger of God. And the idea
(13:56):
is the planet that is the point of that triangle
your chart is calling attention. It is pointing to that
specific location, that planet, that point, and it's saying, this
is your karmic route, this is your karmic destiny. Y
odds are usually about breaking generational patterns. I kind of
(14:18):
am adverse to the word trauma anymore because everybody has trauma. Yeah, trauma,
little tea trauma, right, Like, it's sort of been genericized.
But it's the idea that you're breaking a link in
a chain that has ancestrally been repeating itself, and your
attention is really being called to that place in your chart.
So there are some very well known people that have
(14:40):
y odds because they are uncommon. So the artist Prince
had a yad. In fact, he had two yods. You
think about the sort of creative genius there, and the
breaking away from traditional music and traditional gender, what gender
looks like, and like everything about Prince was so unique
and he really lived his yodds beautifully. Princess Diana had
(15:01):
a yod, and she was really about breaking generational things
in her lineage and in the you know, royal family,
at least from the outside looking in, right, Like, I'm
not in that world, but at least as an observer
and lover of Princess die Like, she was a very
different type of money, right, and her yod really spoke
to that. Interestingly, both of her sons have yodds. So
(15:23):
Prince William has a yod, Prince Harry has a yod.
They're not very common. I don't see them that often,
which is why, of course I nerded out when I
saw it. So I'm like, oh, yeah, then we talked her.
But they are rare, okay, And so they're here to
even more focalize your path and your journey.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So if we talk a little bit more specifically about
your yod, the base of your yad is your neptune okay.
And your pluto. Okay, so your Neptune is sitting at
twenty five degrees in Sage in the eighth house. This
is again the might sound unfamiliar.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well because it's in the ninth housan in the whole
house chart. Okay, yeah, it's in the eighth house, eighth house.
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Okay, So your eighth house Sage Neptune, and then your
Pluto is now sitting in a least in Placidus in
Libra in the sixth it's.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Still okay, that's the same. Okay, that's whole that's whole house. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And then your focalizer. Then the point of your triangle
where your finger of God or your finger of destiny
is pointing to is your chiron, and your chiron is
sitting in Taurus in the first house, I believe.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right, mm hmm yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah. So that's okay, okay, So when we talk about
your we'll start with I guess your pluto in the
in the sixth that'll feel more familiar in Libra. So, uh,
it's about liberation from anything that is an assumption in
any type of partnership. So that to me says you
(16:55):
are working on and doing authenticity and relationship. What do
I really need? Who am I really I'm not going
with cultural assumptions about what I'm supposed to be as
either a woman or a mother, or a partner or
any of those rules. I'm being authentic to what Kelly is,
what Kelly needs, and learning to speak up for that.
(17:16):
Libra can be very compromising, I would say, like when
does compromise become compromising? And so it's also learning to
stand up and be really authentic and speak up for
your needs and not compromise too much. Like compromise and
balance is beautiful until it compromises our authenticity and until
we subjugate ourselves and what we need in relationships. So
Pluto and Libra on the sixth, that's talking about really
(17:37):
liberating yourself from any of that type of energy. It's
about seeking sustainable passion a partnership and a partner that
a lot of partnerships grow stale and they get boring
and they lose their own and so it's like, no,
how do I find that partner and that partnership where
that growth continues to happen, where that pass and continues
(18:00):
to be infused in it, where we both keep really
authentically showing up for each other and making that the
sustainable paradigm instead of like this sleepy boringness that a
lot of relationships can like really like snooze fast fall into.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I'm just dying because if you knew the conversations I've
been having recently with my friends about what i want
in my relationship. Like we have a long distance relationship,
and I just had this programming one of us has
to move, you know, like one of us has to
be we have to do the thing so we can
live together. And recently, to exactly your point that you
(18:35):
just said, I have been going why like do I
have to do that? Do I want to do that?
Like if I want to do what, I want to
do it? But am I just doing that because I
think that's how our relationships are supposed to go? Like, yeah,
is there a world where I could split time and
he could split you know, like looking at all the
options basically, which is exactly what you just described, and
(18:56):
so yeah, you're nailing.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, well and consider your needs as well too,
write like I think so off it's starting to change more.
But I see so many women who are carrying the
load of compromise in relationships even still today, like for sure,
hand in the air, I'm still doing it too. Yeah,
where I'm going like, okay, what, no, right.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Why don't I have to sacrifice my career? Why do Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I got a lot of blowback when I got married finally,
because I really didn't want to get married the second time.
I was like, I don't even know why we have
to do this, but fine, I actu asked. We did it,
and I love him and I'm happy, but I didn't
want to take his last name. Yeah. So many people
gave me so much guff about that, and I just said,
I am a complete sovereign being. I have a degree
and a master's degree, patent and multiple publishings in my
(19:48):
name in this name. Yeah, why would I change my
last name? He can change his last name if he
first to me, Like, that's just no, And I still
get guff about it.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Just so interesting to me that we're still playing these
like roles so culturally conditioned upon us, and if they work, great,
Like I finally got to a place like marriage did
finally work and I was like, okay, that works now, yes,
only when I come into choice about it, right.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And only when you're asking yourself the question if it's
what you truly want or not. That's what I'm starting
to live by versus is this wait? Is this really
something I desire? Or is this just something that I've
seen my whole life? And so it feels comfortable and familiar.
So yeah, I'm doing that dance right now.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
The other thing though, with Pseudo and Libra and the
Sixth is that there's a shadowy aspect there that would
say that possibly in childhood you were hurt by a
lack of role models or there weren't like really good
role models. And sometimes that can be karmically in there too,
But it's the idea that like, in childhood, who do
(20:59):
I look up to? Who do I actually respect? And
were there good role models and good friendships and good
people for me to emulate? And sometimes that's in our
childhood and sometimes that's more past life related. But that's
kind of interesting sometimes because Pluto is always transformational and
Plato is always working on for me. When I have
(21:19):
seen Pluto and Eighth House, and you know now that
at least in Placidis, your your Neptunes and eighth House. Yeah,
it's really about boundary work.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Too well, that hits for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, eighth house and Scorpio is always like no boundaries
and everybody gets in and it's way the wrong ones
or then the like then the pendulum swings the other
way and it's like all boundaries and you have a career. Yeah,
drag out your trebouchet. You're not getting over these walls.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
So we're trying to figure out like who are we
who do we lower the drawbridge for? Who gets to
come through? Okay and who doesn't? So that could be
and then you know Libra partnership. So I think a
lot of that too. Is that transformational work about who
gets access to Kelly, who deserves access and the right
people do and the wrong people.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Just don't, right, And that's another thing I'm working through
right now. So that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, Okay, So then your neptune again this is evolutionary
astrology and plastics, but your neptune would move into then
Sagittarius and being in the eighth house. So this is
about living a soul quest for really authentic beliefs, and
it's the idea that I'm sorting and sifting through what
is meaningful and authentic to me and it may, in fact,
(22:34):
it probably will look different than how I was raised.
And it's not a rejection of how I was raised.
And I can be in conscious choice now about aspects
of that that was great, but I can also see
that it wasn't all great. And I have other things
that are very interesting to me, and so I'm kind
of sifting and sorting through this journey of learning about
(22:56):
other things out there in the world for my own
spirituality and my own growth, my own belief system. Eighth
House deep psychological work, deep inner work, deep willingness to
question yourself, to question your assumptions, to question conditioning, and
really be like, do I believe that? Or do I not?
(23:18):
Let me think about that. I think the really cool
thing too with Neptune and Sage in the ninth or
the eighth House is it also is about really deep
friendships too, so like friendships that feel like sole friendships,
or people that come into your life that probably feel
like kind of soul family as well.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Sure I definitely have those relationships.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
It's like karmic kind of you weren't biologically in my family,
but you feel that you like, yeah, like very much.
Yeah exactly. So those two actually play together pretty well
and complement each other. That's the easy part of the
odd Okay, okay. But what they're pointing at and trying
to help you unlock is that chirn And so in
(23:56):
order to talk about unlocking that chiron, we need to
talk about what chiron is. Yes, okay, So your.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Club transition that you just did for me, I'm just
gonna sit back here.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
I'm like, buckle up, Kelly, we're going on a ride.
I go, And you're your chiron has a lot of
really fascinating things happening. So your chiron is in Taurus
in the first and you said that's the same with
whole house.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yes, I'm a Taurus rising in whole house.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Okay, all right, So if we were to put together
I'm I'm a woman of a certain age who grew
up in the eighties and nineties with mad libs, So
I like mad libs. Put it into like archetypes. Yes,
So for that chiron signature, I would put together your
mad libs as I am a leader and a protector
(24:44):
who's working on healing security in my life in order
to unlock my truest self.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And when we synthesize all that together, we'd say Taurus
is all about stability and a sense of peace and resources.
And there's the financial tactile aspect of tourists, but there's
also this sense of like Taurus wants to feel at ease.
Taurus wants to feel some peace. The soul of Taurus
(25:14):
wants to just be like that deep exhalation of like,
oh yeah, that's very Taurus too. And so tourists done
right isn't just like money for money's sake. It's money
so you can be in choice, and it's money so
you can exhale. And it's money so that you have
some spaciousness, right, physical and mental and emotional spaciousness. That's
(25:35):
all that kind of tourist security to me when it's
done really beautifully. And then the first house is the
house of I am. It's the house of personality. It's
how we show up in the world, how we dress,
how we carry ourselves, how we present ourselves out to
the physical world. It's self actualization through our physical body
and our physical self. It's also about making choices and
(25:57):
taking stands, because if you're saying, like I am Jill,
what does that mean? What do I stand for? What
am I actually saying that I value? How am I
showing up in my life that proves I value those things?
And so you kind of have this beautiful synthesis with
Taurus in the first between like what I value and
who I am and how those are interplaying and marrying.
(26:19):
So if we look at you at your Chiron's signature here,
then well and let me back up for just a minute.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So what the heck is k right?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
What is chn So Kiron is interesting. It's a comet,
it's a meteorite, and it's a asteroid that meets all
the definitions of all three of those in astronomy.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
It was discovered in the nineteen seventies and it was
named Chirn, and it was given the glyph because every
sign in astrology has a glyph, right, So you know,
Mars is the little circle with the arrow, and it's
glyph looks like a key. It's a little k top
of the circle. Yeah, And so it's so interesting because
Kyn was named Chirn after the centaur Chiron, and in mythology,
(27:10):
Chiron the centaur was known as the wounded Healer. He
was a centaur who was born and his mother was
like so terrified of the fact that he was a centaur,
that she abandoned him at birth, And so his entire
story starts out as abandonment. He was abandoned at birth,
which is already like a big shame and trauma marking
(27:30):
of somebody to abandonment. But he was found by Apollo
and Diana, and he was raised to be kind and
intelligent and learned and all of these high aspirations of
like Apollo and Diana kind of energy. And so even
though all the other centaurs at the time were this raucous,
you know, crazy group, he became the sort of enlightened one.
(27:52):
And so all these parents would send their children, their
great warrior sons to Chiron to be raised and trained.
So he trained Achilles the Great Warrior, He trained Jason
from Jason and the Argonauts. He trained Hercules, all in
Greek mythology, because he was so learned and so wise
and so gentle. But on one of his expeditions, he
(28:15):
accidentally gets shot by a poison arrow. And because he
has this immortality from his father being a god and
his mother not being a god, he can't just shake
it off like he would if he was immortal, but
he also can't die, and so he is trapped in
this like never ending pain where he's got this poisonous
wound and it's hurting him and hurting him, but he
(28:37):
can't die, and he also can't heal. And that's kind
of where this so interesting that this astronomer or physicist
chose to name this comet chirn because it symbolizes in
our chart, where we carry a wound or a shame
that is hurting us, but we're not always cognizant of
the wound, We're not always cognizant of the hurt. And
(28:59):
if we can draw our attention to that place and
bring consciousness to it, we can heal it, and then
that allows us to move on and be like healed
from this pain. And so what Chiron did was he
went to Zeus, who had since overthrown his birth father Kranus,
and said, I can't take the pain anymore. And what
I've realized is I need to actually die to be
able to get out of this pain. So I will
(29:20):
exchange the part of me that's immortal to Prometheus so
that he can bring fire to the world, and the
world can have fire. And will you in exchange for
my immortal part, allow him to be released, and I'll die,
I'll be free from the wound. He'll be bringing light
and fire to mankind. And you know, Zeus agreed to
(29:41):
the deal, so he instantly becomes mortal. He instantly dies
with the poison, and then Zeus is so moved by
this move that he puts him up into the night
sky and he becomes a constellation. And so the mythology
of Chirn in our own charts is to say, when
we can bring attention to that deep core, when we
(30:01):
can let the ego death happen and be willing to
confront that part of us that is the most hurt,
like most scared parts and let it come to light
and bring it to light, then we're able to endure
that ego death. We're able to release that pain, and
we get to be a light for others who maybe
(30:22):
didn't have the courage to go there. We become the
celestial navigation that they get then right where the stars
in the sky that they get to navigate to. So
it's so beautiful I think with your podcast and your
willing us to be vulnerable, because you being so personal
and you being so authentic gives other people an opportunity
to have that same kind of courage in.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Their own life. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
So your Chiron then specifically, is about Kirn and Taurus
is about the wound of loss. It's a fear of
losing and that losing can be relationships, that losing can
be career, that losing can look like a lot of things.
But it is this wound of loss and a feeling
of insecurity that I don't want to lose these things
that matter to me. Yeah, and so we can really
(31:07):
fixate on like how do I hold close and hold
tight the things that matter the most to me. It's
about searching for safety and security and the authentic self
and the physical and the shadowy side of that is
we can tend to like poard or control or hang
on just a little too tight, or we can be
really strict because we need this to not go away.
(31:28):
And so where does that come from?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Then?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Well, usually with chiron in Taurus in the first it
comes from childhood, or it comes from a reflexive instinct
from your past life signature. And so there was a
huge impact of either perceived loss or abandonment or perceived
loss and lack or actual lack in childhood. So sometimes
(31:55):
that can look like a lack of resources, like we
grew up really poor, or it can be a lack
of parental figure, like yeah, I have both my parents,
but one parent was always gone or one parent actually
did physically leave, or yeah I had you know, siblings
that got all the attention because they were the star
athlete or something, and so I never they were physically there,
but like emotionally and spiritually, I was pretty much left
(32:17):
to be on my own, right, That's and so then
what do we do when we find that security in
things or in people. We tend to hold on really
tight because it's triggering that wound and that hurt place
from our chiron being in taurists. That's sort of that
fear of loss and that wound of loss and that
impact of loss.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, it's so interesting how this works though to me
looking at what you just said, because in my childhood
and I've talked about this a lot, But first of all,
when you were saying something about not having a role
a model, like my parents have taught me so much,
and so I was like, that's so interesting to think
about that, I wonder, But what I do talk about
a lot with my parents is that they were really
(32:58):
young when they had me, so like they were also kids,
you know. And we've talked about this a lot on
the podcast. My dad came on. He's a recovering alcoholic
and he's been sober since I was eight, But during
that period before he got sober, both of my parents
were very preoccupied with the addiction, you know. And it
doesn't just like overnight change, and so a lot of
(33:20):
my childhood was spent kind of in the throes of
the alcoholic family system, and so that does make sense. Also,
I think there's some past life I've had past life
readings where there was a lot of abandonment. So it's
interesting to me though, how they both can come into play.
But the reason I even know about those kind of
wounds within myself is because of how it played out
(33:42):
in my adult relationships, like with men, you know, And
so I would continue to pick men who were unavailable,
but it was just over and overproving that like abandonment
wound or making me confront it until I could get
to a place of really addressing that with them myself,
which is where I am now. But I think it's
(34:03):
probably like an ongoing process right throughout your life.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
It is. And it's so interesting because saturn in return
has been kind of the zeit geist lately, there's a
lot more awareness but astronomers and talk about satur return.
But you have a chiron return as well. Oh, I
don't think most people realize that. And your chiron return
will correspond with usually right around age fifty.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I find it's so fascinating, which the fact that we've
all lived with this idea of like a midlife crisis. Yeah,
and it seems to strike right around age fifty. And
then here is this astrology now that shows you have
a chiron return around age fifty. And with a chiron return,
what it's basically saying is if you haven't.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Dealt with it, it's going to come.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
The show is hell gonna now.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, there's no avoiding it. Yeah you can't.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah, it's like the Monica Geller closet, you know, yeah,
secret jump closet, Like no more is going to fit
in there, and it's going to spill all out and
all your hands are going to be out on the
floor and you're going to have to actually talk about
it and deal with it. And so again, if you
come from a place of consciousness, that's where a lot
of people will have a midlife crisis and like suddenly
become very spiritual or borning and Christian or whatever that
path looks like. Or they'll go have the affair and
(35:10):
buy the sports car and very unhealed response to like
midlife crisis kirro in return, Right, But what it's really
trying to get you to do is like dig deeper,
look deeper, bring awareness.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, what is ready to be healed? That's what I
always ask myself when I'm going through the hard things.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
And then the other piece there too is healed and shared.
And I love that part of cale.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, right, because it's.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Like when we heal, we have the opportunity to, like
I think, have more empathy for other people.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
For sure, So you have more concern for.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Other people to try to share our story because maybe
it'll help other people.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
So it's also that idea of like we heal ourselves
and we have we can be this you know pebble
in the ripple that goes out into humanity. That's like, ah,
like what else is possible?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah? This hurts? Look where it got Yeah, kind of
the path that I got you to to walk through.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
That absolutely, absolutely, so yeah, so it's interesting to hear
that I didn't know that about your parents. But yes,
it's like in your very young formative years usually like
five and under is kind of where that karmic Well,
then that will play out.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, so that would make total sense in my life.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, we talk about like then the
call is for youth and past life creating it also
to because of that wound of loss, sometimes we can
hyperfixate on like the physicality, and again that's part of
the first house thing, but like if I look like this,
I won't lose that, or if I present myself in
this way, then I won't lose that. And a lot
(36:39):
of times I see signatures like this where people will
sometimes develop like eating disorders or things that are physically
around lack of resources, because Taurus is resources and the
first house is that physicality. So even sometimes in severe cases,
it'll be people who have like eating disorders or extreme hoarding,
like actual physical hoarding, not just like I'm trying to
(37:00):
hoard relationships or hoard experiences. So it can play out
very dramatically sometimes in people's charts depending on how they
respond to the to the stimulus of their environment.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah. I always thought it was so interesting that I
had Taurus in my first house and my Chirra on there,
and I have a whole business. You know, I'm a
stylist as well, and so my whole business is around
external beauty basically and making things look a certain way,
which makes sense with Taurus. But it's also like, very
interesting how it could play into some of this stuff.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
I feel, well, you know what's beautiful about that, Kelly,
is your libra because you having that Pluto and Libra.
Anytime I see Libra, I'm like, oh, this person is
like either an interior designer or a styl because Libra
is about balance too.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Right, we're stellium, I think. I mean, I don't know
if it is platinum implacidus, but it is in whole house. Yeah,
very much Libra energy.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
And you and we say Stellium's by sign. You get
the superpowers of that sign. Okay, house, you get the challenges. Okay,
So you have like for for this, this would say
you have like obstacles. You face obstacles in the sixth house,
which again is like physicality, healing, diet and routine like
all that kind of stuff. But your superpowers are those
Libra superpowers where it's like I can look at an
(38:15):
environment and I can bring it into harmony. You can
see the things that create beauty. Libra needs beauty. It's
not vanity. It is like a need of the soul
to be in a beautiful, serene, harmonious place.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, like electetics, calm me down. It's a beautiful surrounding
that I'm in that makes me very peaceful and calm.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yes, a chaotic crazy room would actually have mental repercussions
for Libra. Yeah, really strong libor placements.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
So it's kind of cool because you're you're living out
your stellium without even knowing it with that Tourus. You know,
it's like these Libra and Taurus, but they're playing so
beautifully there, and it's really unlocking this very healing space
for you by being able to use that styling and
using that physicality and like really embracing that part of
your chart which is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
This is where astrology just gets so interesting to me
and where people are always like mah whatever, And I
think if they just had a real reading though, because
when you're getting a true reading. Like even the stuff
we're talking about right now, it's so spot on two
things that you would never even think about, and it
just makes everything makes sense to me.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah. And the thing too, I think, Kelly, is that
people think how they are is how everybody are it is,
and they take them for granted.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
So I'll talk to people all the time and they'll
be like, well, that's like how everyone is.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Like, no, no, it's not.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
This is uniquely you.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yes, you're uniquely doing you.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
It's not. I don't function in this way at all. Right,
So it's kind of amazing that we can live our
charts and have these pass forward and be uniquely ourselves.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Really, and so now that we are, we have it
all together and we understand the whise what is like,
what am I supposed to do with that?
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Now?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
So couple of things. You as an individual are on
a profound journey of spiritual exploit, exploration and healing, and
as you are doing that, you are sharing that and
it is vastly important for communities around you, some of
which are known to you, okay, and some of which
you will never know the implications.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I relate that to music. I love music, and there
are artists that I have heard their songs and they
have gotten me through times that have been so pivotal
in my life that I honestly feel like without some
of those songs or artists, I don't know how I
would have made it through. Yeah, and they will never
know me. Yeah, you never meet me. They will never
have any idea who the heck I am out here?
(40:52):
And the impact, but my god, the impact that is
your spiritual journey and transformation. Okay, and you using your
voice to amplify that. It makes you a leader in
your known community. But that's what I mean for people
outside listeners. You may never meet listeners who may never
comment all these feel like, yeah, God, all these one
(41:13):
hundred thousand, couple hundred thousand people do they even read that?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yes, that's how I feel all this not because anybody
out there.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
He hello, yeah, mueller, mueller.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, it must be into a that like what are y' all?
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Thing?
Speaker 2 (41:28):
But yeah, the trolls are typically louder than the people
who are resonating. And I say this to listeners all
the time too, and sometimes they'll pop in and be like,
just wanted you to know we are listening, like, because
you do sort of feel like, uh, is this helpful?
I don't know. I mean I love talking about it,
but I want to know it's resonating too, So yeah,
that's good to know. That's just a piece of the
puzzle for me.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
It is. It's vastly helpful for you, but it's also
unlocking things for people in ways that we'll both be
made a parent throughout your life and also have further
implication than this life that you'll ever even realize how
much they've impacted you.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Okay, yeah, very very big deal.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah, why not? It is about having discernment though in spirituality,
so you are sifting and sorting experiences and not all
of it will be for you and you and I
spoke a little bit about the great thing about astrology
being broader is a lot more people see what a
cool tool it can be. And it is just a
tool in the toolbox, right. I don't subscribe to astrology
(42:27):
being the only tool. Yeah, but it also gives rise
to Charlatan's in this information and click bait astrology, And
to me, the power of astrology is not like what
your best sex position is. I mean, that's cool. I'm
sort of more here for like, I mean, that is
really great.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yeah, I mean that's fun to know.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
But I'm here to be like, who am I? What
am I doing? How can my life have meaning?
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Is exactly?
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Yes, that is the astrology that we were talking about here,
and that is what your chart spirituality is asking you
to do and explore and so so cool that you're
doing that. It's also saying that you are the light, okay,
And as you embrace your vulnerability, you are that light
and that voice that's being amplified and that people are
(43:14):
learning from and resonating from, Okay. And I think that's
important because a lot of people, I think, when we
are successful or we're more in like a more public sphere,
you invoke criticism, you invoke polarity, and people have a
lot of commentary because it's a lot easier to comment
on your life and how we think you're messing it
(43:36):
up or doing it right than it is to go
live our own lives. And so I always think of
there's a really famous speech that Teddy Roosevelt gave about the.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yes. I love that one. I have it in my room.
I have to read it almost every day.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
I love that You're one of the only people I've
known that actually knows what I'm talking about. No, exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I guess we should tell the listeners what we're talking about.
Do you know the quote it's the in the arena
is do you know it by heart? I don't know
it by heart, but I.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Don't know it by heart. But the ethos is about
all credit goes to the man in the arena and
not the spectators on the side. Right.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Basically, unless you're in the arena, like, sit the fuck down,
is what I tell myself the morning, Like, unless you're
in the arena doing the work, stop, like, don't criticize it,
don't judge it, don't speak out against it, because unless
you're in there, you really don't know what you're up against.
That's correct, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
And you don't know the courage it takes to put
yourself out there, exactly. And it's funny because I have
that one, and then I have the one about success
as many parents failure as an orphan, and everybody wants
to say what an overnight success you are, and how
lucky you are and how blessed you are and how
and they don't know. And that is true, sure, And
they don't see how you know, bloodied and beaten and
(44:52):
how many times you had to pick yourself up to
get there. Yes, and so everyone wants to step in
when you're a success and say what a greaty hand
they had, how great you are, But when you're down,
everybody disappears. Like that's my reminder that like, no, I'm
the one in the arena, though, you're the one in
the arena putting yourself out there willing to subject yourself
to scrutiny and critical comments because you're willing to be
(45:15):
vulnerable and you're willing to live this life out loud,
and you're willing to live out your chart and like
do big things in a way that some people find intimidating,
and they choose to rather than rise to the occasion
of their own lives, criticize yours.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Ooh, do you know you don't know how much I
needed that today, but it is I'm curious about with
I know you mentioned that Uranus has been transiting Taurus,
and I don't know if I'm jumping a high with anything,
but because of some things that I've gone through, I
have retreated from being seen. I would say I've wanted
to go into hiding quite frankly, and it felt like
(45:52):
the only way to find safety was to be not
looked at and like don't talk, you know whatever, Just
don't don't make a fuss and nobody look at me
or whatever. I need to go away for a while.
But I knew somewhere inside me that wasn't really my path.
I just didn't. I couldn't quite get out of it.
And I think I'm just now starting to kind of
like feel comfortable, you know, dipping the toe back in,
(46:14):
like testing the water, seeing if it's okay. So is
that because of a transit? Like is there something happening
astrologically that that would make sense for or is it
a period of time if I don't put myself out there,
am I going against my yacht and like not living
out my purpose? Do you know what I mean? Do
you see where I'm going at this? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (46:33):
So.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
I think the call that you're having one, I think
you need to give yourself a lot of credit and
a lot of grace because sometimes we do just need
to pull the wool over ourselves and great for a minute,
right now, everybody can get beat up all day, every
day forever.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
No, and just take it right, we're all yemans.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yes, yes, Sometimes the safest course is to just be
like I'm going to take a real deep breath in
a step back for a minute. And that doesn't mean
that you're out of it forever. Rights right at that
place of safety for a moment. Now, my intuition would say,
you're hearing the call again because this uranus transit is
happening right over your chiron, which is the focalizer of
(47:10):
your yacht, And so Kiron is saying, Kelly, be authentic,
be vulnerable, share, let the ego death happen. Understand that
the you know, the criticism is not who you are.
That's a reflection of the criticizers, not of the criticized, right, Yeah,
that's their perspectives. Yeah, that is not who you don't
even know me, they don't know, So it's not representative
(47:35):
who you are. And you've taken that time and you've
had that little bit of retreat that you needed, and
now with that uranus sitting right because uranus is transitting
right now, it's like twenty six degrees I think, and
your chiron is a twenty sixth or less than a
degree apart, Yeah, less than a degree apart. So Uranus,
you're whimsy, you're weird, your uniqueness. I love your honest.
(47:58):
I always say it's our It's so literal in what
it is in the aspect of who we are. In astrology, right,
your honus is the planet that rolls. It doesn't orbit,
it doesn't rotate, it's orbit. It rolls, and it's orbit
only planet that does it. We all look at Mars
and we all say Mars, and we look at your
hous and we say, you're honest, Uranus Urinus, Right, you
don't even know it, right, it's true. It doesn't even
(48:20):
have consensus.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
In its name.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
Yeah, And it is that sense of us. That's our authenticity,
our whimsy, our weird is to be celebrated about what's unique.
And so that planet that's saying like, be extra amp up,
your extra be you, is right now coming right over
that chiron, which is your finger of God pointing to like,
this is your healing path. You being you, You, being
(48:44):
authentic is deeply healing and then also is helping other
people and it's unlocking resources for you, and it's unlocking
opportunity for you. And we do it for the spiritual work.
But often the side effect of that work ends up
being like career unlocks and relationship unlocks and kind of
(49:04):
all the things that we thought weren't important sort of
fall into place too. It's just really true.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah. I feel like when you're being your most authentic
self and you are working with your higher self or
whatever you want to call it, on these kind of paths,
you do start to one find what is more authentic
to you in relationship and work and all the things,
and so it just kind of all starts to fall
in line because of that foundation that you're planting. I agree.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
And the more what's saying, the most personal is the
most universal. You start realizing like, oh, we've all been
running around pretending like we don't feel these things or
oh yeah, and then you share your really personal and
everyone too you're like, oh, just a bunch of weirdos.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Why were we talking about this?
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Then yes, run around so and so. I think that's
just really cool and very important, and it is your
path in this lifetime more than anything else here. That
is so your path in this lifetime is this unlocking
of your authentic self, your authentic voice, your authentic spirituality,
(50:13):
and sharing that with the world. And sharing that with
a partner and sharing that you know is deeply healing
for you, and that is because of past life stuff.
And we'll do another one sometimes where we'll dig into
your past life because.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I mean, we have to now, yeah exactly, I definitely
I have so many questions about the past life stuff.
And I know if any of the listeners are familiar
with like their north and south note, I mean, is
that what you work with for that? Okay, yep, And
that is all very fascinating. I've tiptoed again a little
bit into that stuff. But and I can see the
south notes show up in my life sometimes now with
(50:46):
mine's and Capricorn, I believe, but it is. Yeah, so
there's definitely stuff that I can see, but I want
to know more. So we'll have to have you back
and do that because this is so fascinating. But I
know we talked about my chart a lot, but I
love to give you guys the example of how the
kind of work that you do, Jill can be done
and what it can help with. And so that's why
I always want to do that. If there are people
(51:08):
listening and they're like, wait, I want to do that.
I want to know what to do with my Chiron?
Do you work with people like this or how does
that go?
Speaker 3 (51:16):
Oh? Yeah, So Chiron has been, like I said, super
instrumental for me personally, just because it's discovery for myself,
Like I discovered it, yeah, for myself at a time
when I was really confronting abuse and trauma, and so
I became sort of iopically fixated on it for a while.
And so I have a Chiron worksheet on my website
for people if they're just curious again mad libs, like
(51:36):
you can enter yours on and your Chiron position and
it'll give you a little mad libs to kind of
unlock your Chiron and what it's trying to tell you
in your life. Okay, that's on my website And then yes,
I do. I do readings for people all the time still.
So it's like my greatest honor is when people trust
me with their chart because it's very personal. It is
very personal, deeply personal, and I appreciate people letting me
(51:57):
lend my expertise and my lens of perspective an intuition
to their charts. Yeah, really beautiful unlock for people. And
I think my hope is people feel seen when they
walk away.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
That's what it makes me feel. And I think I
said the comparison to therapy earlier, but I know it
can be intimidating to people, and I think the same
for therapy. It's like, before you do it, you're like, oh,
you know, making up all the bad scenarios. But the
reality is is we walk around this world just kind
of throwing different medicators at all these feelings that we have,
(52:27):
and we're holding all these feelings inside. And sometimes when
you do stuff like this, like even understanding yourself more
via your astrology chart, that feeling scene piece that you're
talking about, immediately lessons all the noises inside, like the anxiety,
the depression, all of that stuff, because you're seen and
that's what our soul really wants, I think. So that's
why it feels good to me. I think you're really
(52:47):
verbalizing that really well. But I will put your website
in the description of this podcast because I'm assuming that's
how people will book sessions with you as well, right, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, absolutely,
So if you guys are wanting to do what Jill
and I just did with your chart and just kind
of understand for me, it's just helpful to know where
I'm going and that I'm on the right track or
(53:08):
can be working with certain pieces of it. More. Go
check out her website and even put in the Chiron worksheet.
That would be a good place to start, I feel
for Yeah, it's all free, Okay, amazing, and we'll have
to have you back to do some past live talk
so we can understand this more. It was really interesting
to think through astrology and an evolutionary standpoint. I love that.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
Yeah, and it's probably again for most people seeing wholehouse astrology,
it's probably different lens of perspective too, to consus you
see your chart in a different system, right, Yeah, yeah,
totally kind of fun too.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here and
talking with us today.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Kelly.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Thanks for listening to the Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,
where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a
little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,
and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
Yes,
Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's
Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Jill Brown is here, And before I get into all
her credentials, I found the part of your story that
was so fascinating to me. You have a background in aeronautics,
you're a pilot, you worked at NASA, so you're a scientist.
And so many people say to me, is astrology really real?
And I'm like, no, I have the sciences here today,
(00:33):
she's here to tell us this is real. So how
did that background for you really play into you getting
into evolutionary astrology, which we'll explain in a minute too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So, I actually grew up in Alaska, and one in
forty five people in Alaska is a pilot. It's the
highest per capita pilots anywhere, I think in the world actually,
And so I grew up with all these friends whose
parents had planes, and a lot of Alaska isn't accessible
except for my airplane in the winter, but even like
the water freezes over the road system ends, et cetera.
So I grew up just hearing the sound of little
(01:07):
airplanes around all the time, and it just became fascinated
by aviation, and then, funny enough, I went and got
a degree in marketing and worked in Los Angeles for
almost a decade. I used to work at Walt Disney
Music Group and Disney Publishing, so I was in the
music group at Disney for a lot different Yeah, yeah, exactly,
very different world. I loved working at Disney. I loved
all the creative people there, and I love, love, love music,
(01:30):
so that was very cool. But I was spending all
of my salary on flying lessons and flying, but kind
of went maybe I should get into my passion, which
is aviation. So I went back to school and got
a master's degree in aeronautics and then got an internship
at NASA through grad school that ended up becoming in
a full time position, and so I worked in drones
(01:50):
and unmanned operating systems for a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, you have worked up in space, You've seen the planets,
you've seen the stars. How would you explain to someone
who's as is astrology real? Like? Where is that connection?
How do we make the scientific connection to help people
understand that astrology is basically a map for us.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I think the thing that was interesting for me is
and maybe you felt like this too. But I've always
kind of grew up feeling like I had two parts
of me, and one part of me was very logical
and like scientific and interested in that, and then there
was this other part of me that was very spiritual.
So I never felt like I was so spiritual or
religious that there was no space for science or fact
(02:30):
or you know, the kind of proven, factual world. But
I also never felt a part of like just the
straight scientific community where there was no space for magic
and there was no space for the unexplained, and there
was no space for that part. And so what I
found is astrology for me, really marries those two worlds
kind of beautifully because you have the proven astrophysics and
(02:51):
astronomy and aeronautical charts and things that we use to navigate.
Even celestial navigation is still used even in aeronautics today, right,
or space launches or whatever. We're still subject to the
forces of nature. I mean, one of the biggest things
with space launches is they'll scrap them because of weather, right,
which all of us are trying to predict but can't control.
So no matter how scientific we are, we are subjected
(03:13):
to this natural world. As well, and so astrology to
me is also a science and a study, and then
there's also space for intuition, and there's space for interpretation,
and there's space for things coming through in people's chart
that's maybe the chart behind the chart, and that's what
evolutionary astrology is is kind of the chart that's behind
(03:33):
the chart, and what's deeper, what's karmic, was actually happening
there beyond just the technical and so that's what attracted
me to it. And actually what attracted me was when
I had a reading, I found out I had a yod,
which you have and we'll talk about that in a second,
which I'm very excited about.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
We see a yod is called.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
The finger of Destiny or the finger of God. They're
very rare. It's a very very big placement. But it
also was speaking to me about chiron, and chiron is
a placement in many people's chart. If you're just sort
of you know, getting into astrology or new to astrology,
you may not have heard about, but it can be
a really deeply transformational place in people's chart. And so
(04:13):
I love chiron, and my chiron was part of my
yach and my focalizem and all this stuff in my
chart that was really important in my life at that time,
and this evolutionary astrologer read my chart and I was jokes,
she kind of read me for filth, but I was like,
who is this woman? She has my day of birth?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Wow, she's seeing me like this. Yes, yes, I.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Have not to go too into the weeds, but like
abuse in my childhood and some other things that had
never been talked about that were really just coming to
light from family members being courageous enough to speak about it.
And my chart and my chiron was all in the
fifth house, all in Taurus, all this conjunctions with the sun,
and all these very technical astrology aspects which are neither
(04:55):
here nor they're important to this conversation. But it felt
like being seen and added perfect time when I needed
to feel seen and validated. And it was like your
chart being like, no, this is real, this really happened
to you, and this is really your opportunity to transform
that and turn it into something really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
And that's so that's kind of where my my nerding
out on astrology.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Went, almost like therapy when it comes to that piece
of it, right, because you're seeing none of this happened
by mistake, and it's all here to help me grow,
which I know when I say that sometimes people, you know,
because when you look at the bad things in your life,
that can feel almost like a punishment if we look
at it that way, I feel like, like, oh, it
was supposed to help me grow. But I don't mean
(05:40):
it that way. I'm more so mean you know, these
things are mapped out in our lives, and then we're
given the chance to evolve from them or get closer
to ourselves, understand ourselves better, feel seen. All of that
comes from these big things that happen, and so astrology
for me has always just been a way to understand
that and get to know myself on a deeper level
(06:01):
so that I can go live out the purpose that
I'm here to live out. And I'm curious with the
evolutionary astrology piece you were kind of explaining to me before,
because I told you my listeners are really used to
talking about astrology because we have Marvin Wilkerson on here
every month, and we're talking more about the current transits
so that we can kind of navigate each month, know
(06:22):
the energy that's coming, and work with it in the
way that I'm just described as well. But what is
the difference, the main difference between what we're going to
talk about today and how you work with it and
that kind of astrology, like the transit type astrology.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Sure, so I think transits are very important and informative, right,
And I think of astrology like meteorology. Meteorology is a
science and we study and we map the environment, we
map the climate, and we map you know, hurricane trajectories
and other things based on scientific factors. But we can
never quite always predict the weather right right, And to
(06:59):
that's prology. It's giving us the cosmic forecast. These are
the energies at play, These are the planets that are moving,
These are the things that are happening out there in
the cosmos, and these are the energies that are likely
to show up in this forecast. But it's your interaction
with them that's going to determine what happens. And that's
two things. One is your birth chart, which evolutionary astrology
is really synthesizing your birth chart, and the other is
(07:21):
your interaction with it. So if I'm going to plant
a picnic this weekend, I would like to know what
the weather is going to be like to decide if
I need to do it indoors or outdoors. Astrology can
give me that kind of energetic forecast, but it's up
to me whether or not I'm going to have a
good picnic. Right, you can still have a great time
in the rain, you can have a bad time in
the sun. It's just your interaction with the forecast that's
going to determine what it is. So evolutionary astrology is
(07:45):
really looking at your specific birth chart. We use the
Placidus system. A lot of apps, a lot of astrology
apps will use whole house system. Nothing wrong with Oole's
House system, it's just different. So sometimes when I read
people's chart, they'll say, oh, well, I've always or my
you know, areas was in the sixth house. Why are
you saying it's in the seventh And I'm like, oh, well,
do you use one of the astrology apps? Yes, I do, Okay,
(08:07):
they use whole house astrology. And the reason for that
is it's very predictable. Right. It's like a lot easier
to segment a pie into twelve equal slices, okay, than
it is to segment it into these like individualized slices, right, Yeah,
so evolutionary astrology is just trying to put a little
bit finer point on it. Okay, And I think the
other difference with evolutionary astrology is we look at your nodes,
(08:28):
your seuth node in particular, and we look at the
self node as karmic implications from past lives, and the
idea is some type of unresolved karma that we came
into this life with that is part of our life's
journey to sort of master or to work out or
to come to sort of agreement with. That's all part
(08:51):
of evolutionary astrology.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, okay, So I've heard of placid is, but I
haven't personally worked with it A ton. I had a
friend and tell me some of my placements in a
Placidas chart and it was different. So I obviously operated
from this place of like, okay, I'm a cancer sign,
a Piscy's moon tourist rising, Like, yeah, I know all
of my whole sign or what is it called, whole house,
(09:16):
whole house astrology, whole house astrology. I know that chart
very well for me, but when it goes to placids,
if stuff changes, how do you then incorporate all that
knowing from the whole house chart into what you're learning
with placid is.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
So like I love Chowny Nichols and I have her app.
Yeah me too, but her app is whole house. So
someone might just if any of your planets are kind
of depending on their position, they might slide into a
new house, right, right, So it'll just change just a
little bit. So my advice to people is look at
it both ways, and you take what works and you
leave the rest.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Right, Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So when I do whole house astrology, my stellium shifts
into the sixth house, which is a house of service
and healing, which is a beautiful thing and actually kind
of speaks to some of the work I do. But
when I use placidic system, it's in the fifth house,
and that's the house of childhood and all of the
places where my past life karma came in. And that
(10:09):
felt a lot more authentic for me. Yeah, does that
make sense?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It does make sense. Okay, So it's I said it
wrong than the first time too, because I was mentioning
like cancer pilcis, it's your houses. It's just the houses
that are different in placidics.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, it should be the houses that land up differently.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So would you ever have a planet in a different sign?
I know you would have, don't You could have a
planet in a different house obviously in these two parts. Yeah,
would you ever have a house, I mean a planet
in a different sign?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I don't think so with the with the caveat of
your ascendant, right, because your snate is okay, like a
point on an ass house. So yeah, yes, yes, so
your ascendant could potentially shift. So that's pretty.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Interest right, Yeah, it seems like it would be.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, I could be a cap rising instead of you know,
so yeah, So just I think for people it's important
to look at it both ways and see which one resonates. Really,
I don't think any of them is wrong, it's just different,
a different lens of perspective. So I'm surprised that you
haven't heard about your yacht, because your yacht is.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
But is this been a placidest chart? Maybe this is
because I haven't really worked with that chart that much.
So this is where you go. But speaking of my yad, well,
I want you to explain to listeners what that is,
because I have heard this term, but I've actually never
really been explained all of the details of it, or
why you need it, why you would want to work
with it, or what it means or anything like that.
(11:36):
What I also want to say to you is we
brought up Chiron, and I know that that is like
a big piece of the yad for me, but it's
not for everyone. So which one should we start with with?
Explaining to people what they are, why we want to
work with these, what they taught you about yourself, and
things like that.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Let's start with the yacht because it's very fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So what is a yod.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So a yacht is just an aspect. I'm sure most
of your listeners have at least seen their chart once
and it's always laid out on a wheel, and so
all of your planets are all spread across that wheel,
and they're relating to each other in different ways, and
we call those relationships aspects. Right, So they're opposing one another,
that's the easiest one to understand. They're directly opposite one another.
(12:18):
That's just an aspect where there are ninety degrees apart
from one another. Okay, well there's another aspect. You know,
they're square each other. So when it gets to a yod,
it is just another aspect, it's three planets. It's a
yacht is a triangle, and it's three planets that are
interacting with each other in a really unique way. And
the biggest thing with a yacht if you look at
(12:39):
it in your chart, like I'll send you a copy
of your chart later, but it's like a very skinny,
skinny triangle. Yeah, and that is because your base is
being formed by two planets that are sixty degrees apart,
which is a kind of uncomfortable, little bit weird angle.
And then they're aspecting a planet that's actually at an
even more extreme angle. And so it's the extremity of
(13:01):
that angle that makes it a little uncomfortable. Because when
you have like a grand try and have you heard
of grand Trinds where it's a really beautiful equilateral triangle,
it's like, oh, these very comfortable, comfortable relationship with one another.
But your yod is it's making the three planets and
these three signs work in a way that's not necessarily
a place of comfort. Comfort, Okay, And we know that
(13:23):
growth comes from discomfort, right like I do my Jillian Michaels,
and she's always talking about get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, I'll do one more rep you know videos, Yes,
oh I've heard of that one.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
But it is my most like astrology based philosophy because
it's true that the growth comes from the discomfort, and
it's not always uncomfortable once we learn to integrate it.
But initial growth, initial change in my lived experience, is
always uncomfortable. And so odds are then called the finger
of destiny or the finger of God. And the idea
(13:56):
is the planet that is the point of that triangle
your chart is calling attention. It is pointing to that
specific location, that planet, that point, and it's saying, this
is your karmic route, this is your karmic destiny. Y
odds are usually about breaking generational patterns. I kind of
(14:18):
am adverse to the word trauma anymore because everybody has trauma. Yeah, trauma,
little tea trauma, right, Like, it's sort of been genericized.
But it's the idea that you're breaking a link in
a chain that has ancestrally been repeating itself, and your
attention is really being called to that place in your chart.
So there are some very well known people that have
(14:40):
y odds because they are uncommon. So the artist Prince
had a yad. In fact, he had two yods. You
think about the sort of creative genius there, and the
breaking away from traditional music and traditional gender, what gender
looks like, and like everything about Prince was so unique
and he really lived his yodds beautifully. Princess Diana had
(15:01):
a yod, and she was really about breaking generational things
in her lineage and in the you know, royal family,
at least from the outside looking in, right, Like, I'm
not in that world, but at least as an observer
and lover of Princess die Like, she was a very
different type of money, right, and her yod really spoke
to that. Interestingly, both of her sons have yodds. So
(15:23):
Prince William has a yod, Prince Harry has a yod.
They're not very common. I don't see them that often,
which is why, of course I nerded out when I
saw it. So I'm like, oh, yeah, then we talked her.
But they are rare, okay, And so they're here to
even more focalize your path and your journey.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So if we talk a little bit more specifically about
your yod, the base of your yad is your neptune okay.
And your pluto. Okay, so your Neptune is sitting at
twenty five degrees in Sage in the eighth house. This
is again the might sound unfamiliar.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well because it's in the ninth housan in the whole
house chart. Okay, yeah, it's in the eighth house, eighth house.
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Okay, So your eighth house Sage Neptune, and then your
Pluto is now sitting in a least in Placidus in
Libra in the sixth it's.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Still okay, that's the same. Okay, that's whole that's whole house. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And then your focalizer. Then the point of your triangle
where your finger of God or your finger of destiny
is pointing to is your chiron, and your chiron is
sitting in Taurus in the first house, I believe.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right, mm hmm yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah. So that's okay, okay, So when we talk about
your we'll start with I guess your pluto in the
in the sixth that'll feel more familiar in Libra. So, uh,
it's about liberation from anything that is an assumption in
any type of partnership. So that to me says you
(16:55):
are working on and doing authenticity and relationship. What do
I really need? Who am I really I'm not going
with cultural assumptions about what I'm supposed to be as
either a woman or a mother, or a partner or
any of those rules. I'm being authentic to what Kelly is,
what Kelly needs, and learning to speak up for that.
(17:16):
Libra can be very compromising, I would say, like when
does compromise become compromising? And so it's also learning to
stand up and be really authentic and speak up for
your needs and not compromise too much. Like compromise and
balance is beautiful until it compromises our authenticity and until
we subjugate ourselves and what we need in relationships. So
Pluto and Libra on the sixth, that's talking about really
(17:37):
liberating yourself from any of that type of energy. It's
about seeking sustainable passion a partnership and a partner that
a lot of partnerships grow stale and they get boring
and they lose their own and so it's like, no,
how do I find that partner and that partnership where
that growth continues to happen, where that pass and continues
(18:00):
to be infused in it, where we both keep really
authentically showing up for each other and making that the
sustainable paradigm instead of like this sleepy boringness that a
lot of relationships can like really like snooze fast fall into.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I'm just dying because if you knew the conversations I've
been having recently with my friends about what i want
in my relationship. Like we have a long distance relationship,
and I just had this programming one of us has
to move, you know, like one of us has to
be we have to do the thing so we can
live together. And recently, to exactly your point that you
(18:35):
just said, I have been going why like do I
have to do that? Do I want to do that?
Like if I want to do what, I want to
do it? But am I just doing that because I
think that's how our relationships are supposed to go? Like, yeah,
is there a world where I could split time and
he could split you know, like looking at all the
options basically, which is exactly what you just described, and
(18:56):
so yeah, you're nailing.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, well and consider your needs as well too,
write like I think so off it's starting to change more.
But I see so many women who are carrying the
load of compromise in relationships even still today, like for sure,
hand in the air, I'm still doing it too. Yeah,
where I'm going like, okay, what, no, right.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Why don't I have to sacrifice my career? Why do Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I got a lot of blowback when I got married finally,
because I really didn't want to get married the second time.
I was like, I don't even know why we have
to do this, but fine, I actu asked. We did it,
and I love him and I'm happy, but I didn't
want to take his last name. Yeah. So many people
gave me so much guff about that, and I just said,
I am a complete sovereign being. I have a degree
and a master's degree, patent and multiple publishings in my
(19:48):
name in this name. Yeah, why would I change my
last name? He can change his last name if he
first to me, Like, that's just no, And I still
get guff about it.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Just so interesting to me that we're still playing these
like roles so culturally conditioned upon us, and if they work, great,
Like I finally got to a place like marriage did
finally work and I was like, okay, that works now, yes,
only when I come into choice about it, right.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And only when you're asking yourself the question if it's
what you truly want or not. That's what I'm starting
to live by versus is this wait? Is this really
something I desire? Or is this just something that I've
seen my whole life? And so it feels comfortable and familiar.
So yeah, I'm doing that dance right now.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
The other thing though, with Pseudo and Libra and the
Sixth is that there's a shadowy aspect there that would
say that possibly in childhood you were hurt by a
lack of role models or there weren't like really good
role models. And sometimes that can be karmically in there too,
But it's the idea that like, in childhood, who do
(20:59):
I look up to? Who do I actually respect? And
were there good role models and good friendships and good
people for me to emulate? And sometimes that's in our
childhood and sometimes that's more past life related. But that's
kind of interesting sometimes because Pluto is always transformational and
Plato is always working on for me. When I have
(21:19):
seen Pluto and Eighth House, and you know now that
at least in Placidis, your your Neptunes and eighth House. Yeah,
it's really about boundary work.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Too well, that hits for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, eighth house and Scorpio is always like no boundaries
and everybody gets in and it's way the wrong ones
or then the like then the pendulum swings the other
way and it's like all boundaries and you have a career. Yeah,
drag out your trebouchet. You're not getting over these walls.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
So we're trying to figure out like who are we
who do we lower the drawbridge for? Who gets to
come through? Okay and who doesn't? So that could be
and then you know Libra partnership. So I think a
lot of that too. Is that transformational work about who
gets access to Kelly, who deserves access and the right
people do and the wrong people.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Just don't, right, And that's another thing I'm working through
right now. So that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, Okay, So then your neptune again this is evolutionary
astrology and plastics, but your neptune would move into then
Sagittarius and being in the eighth house. So this is
about living a soul quest for really authentic beliefs, and
it's the idea that I'm sorting and sifting through what
is meaningful and authentic to me and it may, in fact,
(22:34):
it probably will look different than how I was raised.
And it's not a rejection of how I was raised.
And I can be in conscious choice now about aspects
of that that was great, but I can also see
that it wasn't all great. And I have other things
that are very interesting to me, and so I'm kind
of sifting and sorting through this journey of learning about
(22:56):
other things out there in the world for my own
spirituality and my own growth, my own belief system. Eighth
House deep psychological work, deep inner work, deep willingness to
question yourself, to question your assumptions, to question conditioning, and
really be like, do I believe that? Or do I not?
(23:18):
Let me think about that. I think the really cool
thing too with Neptune and Sage in the ninth or
the eighth House is it also is about really deep
friendships too, so like friendships that feel like sole friendships,
or people that come into your life that probably feel
like kind of soul family as well.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Sure I definitely have those relationships.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
It's like karmic kind of you weren't biologically in my family,
but you feel that you like, yeah, like very much.
Yeah exactly. So those two actually play together pretty well
and complement each other. That's the easy part of the
odd Okay, okay. But what they're pointing at and trying
to help you unlock is that chirn And so in
(23:56):
order to talk about unlocking that chiron, we need to
talk about what chiron is. Yes, okay, So your.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Club transition that you just did for me, I'm just
gonna sit back here.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
I'm like, buckle up, Kelly, we're going on a ride.
I go, And you're your chiron has a lot of
really fascinating things happening. So your chiron is in Taurus
in the first and you said that's the same with
whole house.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yes, I'm a Taurus rising in whole house.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Okay, all right, So if we were to put together
I'm I'm a woman of a certain age who grew
up in the eighties and nineties with mad libs, So
I like mad libs. Put it into like archetypes. Yes,
So for that chiron signature, I would put together your
mad libs as I am a leader and a protector
(24:44):
who's working on healing security in my life in order
to unlock my truest self.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And when we synthesize all that together, we'd say Taurus
is all about stability and a sense of peace and resources.
And there's the financial tactile aspect of tourists, but there's
also this sense of like Taurus wants to feel at ease.
Taurus wants to feel some peace. The soul of Taurus
(25:14):
wants to just be like that deep exhalation of like,
oh yeah, that's very Taurus too. And so tourists done
right isn't just like money for money's sake. It's money
so you can be in choice, and it's money so
you can exhale. And it's money so that you have
some spaciousness, right, physical and mental and emotional spaciousness. That's
(25:35):
all that kind of tourist security to me when it's
done really beautifully. And then the first house is the
house of I am. It's the house of personality. It's
how we show up in the world, how we dress,
how we carry ourselves, how we present ourselves out to
the physical world. It's self actualization through our physical body
and our physical self. It's also about making choices and
(25:57):
taking stands, because if you're saying, like I am Jill,
what does that mean? What do I stand for? What
am I actually saying that I value? How am I
showing up in my life that proves I value those things?
And so you kind of have this beautiful synthesis with
Taurus in the first between like what I value and
who I am and how those are interplaying and marrying.
(26:19):
So if we look at you at your Chiron's signature here,
then well and let me back up for just a minute.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So what the heck is k right?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
What is chn So Kiron is interesting. It's a comet,
it's a meteorite, and it's a asteroid that meets all
the definitions of all three of those in astronomy.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
It was discovered in the nineteen seventies and it was
named Chirn, and it was given the glyph because every
sign in astrology has a glyph, right, So you know,
Mars is the little circle with the arrow, and it's
glyph looks like a key. It's a little k top
of the circle. Yeah, And so it's so interesting because
Kyn was named Chirn after the centaur Chiron, and in mythology,
(27:10):
Chiron the centaur was known as the wounded Healer. He
was a centaur who was born and his mother was
like so terrified of the fact that he was a centaur,
that she abandoned him at birth, And so his entire
story starts out as abandonment. He was abandoned at birth,
which is already like a big shame and trauma marking
(27:30):
of somebody to abandonment. But he was found by Apollo
and Diana, and he was raised to be kind and
intelligent and learned and all of these high aspirations of
like Apollo and Diana kind of energy. And so even
though all the other centaurs at the time were this raucous,
you know, crazy group, he became the sort of enlightened one.
(27:52):
And so all these parents would send their children, their
great warrior sons to Chiron to be raised and trained.
So he trained Achilles the Great Warrior, He trained Jason
from Jason and the Argonauts. He trained Hercules, all in
Greek mythology, because he was so learned and so wise
and so gentle. But on one of his expeditions, he
(28:15):
accidentally gets shot by a poison arrow. And because he
has this immortality from his father being a god and
his mother not being a god, he can't just shake
it off like he would if he was immortal, but
he also can't die, and so he is trapped in
this like never ending pain where he's got this poisonous
wound and it's hurting him and hurting him, but he
(28:37):
can't die, and he also can't heal. And that's kind
of where this so interesting that this astronomer or physicist
chose to name this comet chirn because it symbolizes in
our chart, where we carry a wound or a shame
that is hurting us, but we're not always cognizant of
the wound, We're not always cognizant of the hurt. And
(28:59):
if we can draw our attention to that place and
bring consciousness to it, we can heal it, and then
that allows us to move on and be like healed
from this pain. And so what Chiron did was he
went to Zeus, who had since overthrown his birth father Kranus,
and said, I can't take the pain anymore. And what
I've realized is I need to actually die to be
able to get out of this pain. So I will
(29:20):
exchange the part of me that's immortal to Prometheus so
that he can bring fire to the world, and the
world can have fire. And will you in exchange for
my immortal part, allow him to be released, and I'll die,
I'll be free from the wound. He'll be bringing light
and fire to mankind. And you know, Zeus agreed to
(29:41):
the deal, so he instantly becomes mortal. He instantly dies
with the poison, and then Zeus is so moved by
this move that he puts him up into the night
sky and he becomes a constellation. And so the mythology
of Chirn in our own charts is to say, when
we can bring attention to that deep core, when we
(30:01):
can let the ego death happen and be willing to
confront that part of us that is the most hurt,
like most scared parts and let it come to light
and bring it to light, then we're able to endure
that ego death. We're able to release that pain, and
we get to be a light for others who maybe
(30:22):
didn't have the courage to go there. We become the
celestial navigation that they get then right where the stars
in the sky that they get to navigate to. So
it's so beautiful I think with your podcast and your
willing us to be vulnerable, because you being so personal
and you being so authentic gives other people an opportunity
to have that same kind of courage in.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Their own life. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
So your Chiron then specifically, is about Kirn and Taurus
is about the wound of loss. It's a fear of
losing and that losing can be relationships, that losing can
be career, that losing can look like a lot of things.
But it is this wound of loss and a feeling
of insecurity that I don't want to lose these things
that matter to me. Yeah, and so we can really
(31:07):
fixate on like how do I hold close and hold
tight the things that matter the most to me. It's
about searching for safety and security and the authentic self
and the physical and the shadowy side of that is
we can tend to like poard or control or hang
on just a little too tight, or we can be
really strict because we need this to not go away.
(31:28):
And so where does that come from?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Then?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Well, usually with chiron in Taurus in the first it
comes from childhood, or it comes from a reflexive instinct
from your past life signature. And so there was a
huge impact of either perceived loss or abandonment or perceived
loss and lack or actual lack in childhood. So sometimes
(31:55):
that can look like a lack of resources, like we
grew up really poor, or it can be a lack
of parental figure, like yeah, I have both my parents,
but one parent was always gone or one parent actually
did physically leave, or yeah I had you know, siblings
that got all the attention because they were the star
athlete or something, and so I never they were physically there,
but like emotionally and spiritually, I was pretty much left
(32:17):
to be on my own, right, That's and so then
what do we do when we find that security in
things or in people. We tend to hold on really
tight because it's triggering that wound and that hurt place
from our chiron being in taurists. That's sort of that
fear of loss and that wound of loss and that
impact of loss.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, it's so interesting how this works though to me
looking at what you just said, because in my childhood
and I've talked about this a lot, But first of all,
when you were saying something about not having a role
a model, like my parents have taught me so much,
and so I was like, that's so interesting to think
about that, I wonder, But what I do talk about
a lot with my parents is that they were really
(32:58):
young when they had me, so like they were also kids,
you know. And we've talked about this a lot on
the podcast. My dad came on. He's a recovering alcoholic
and he's been sober since I was eight, But during
that period before he got sober, both of my parents
were very preoccupied with the addiction, you know. And it
doesn't just like overnight change, and so a lot of
(33:20):
my childhood was spent kind of in the throes of
the alcoholic family system, and so that does make sense. Also,
I think there's some past life I've had past life
readings where there was a lot of abandonment. So it's
interesting to me though, how they both can come into play.
But the reason I even know about those kind of
wounds within myself is because of how it played out
(33:42):
in my adult relationships, like with men, you know, And
so I would continue to pick men who were unavailable,
but it was just over and overproving that like abandonment
wound or making me confront it until I could get
to a place of really addressing that with them myself,
which is where I am now. But I think it's
(34:03):
probably like an ongoing process right throughout your life.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
It is. And it's so interesting because saturn in return
has been kind of the zeit geist lately, there's a
lot more awareness but astronomers and talk about satur return.
But you have a chiron return as well. Oh, I
don't think most people realize that. And your chiron return
will correspond with usually right around age fifty.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I find it's so fascinating, which the fact that we've
all lived with this idea of like a midlife crisis. Yeah,
and it seems to strike right around age fifty. And
then here is this astrology now that shows you have
a chiron return around age fifty. And with a chiron return,
what it's basically saying is if you haven't.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Dealt with it, it's going to come.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
The show is hell gonna now.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, there's no avoiding it. Yeah you can't.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah, it's like the Monica Geller closet, you know, yeah,
secret jump closet, Like no more is going to fit
in there, and it's going to spill all out and
all your hands are going to be out on the
floor and you're going to have to actually talk about
it and deal with it. And so again, if you
come from a place of consciousness, that's where a lot
of people will have a midlife crisis and like suddenly
become very spiritual or borning and Christian or whatever that
path looks like. Or they'll go have the affair and
(35:10):
buy the sports car and very unhealed response to like
midlife crisis kirro in return, Right, But what it's really
trying to get you to do is like dig deeper,
look deeper, bring awareness.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, what is ready to be healed? That's what I
always ask myself when I'm going through the hard things.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
And then the other piece there too is healed and shared.
And I love that part of cale.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, right, because it's.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Like when we heal, we have the opportunity to, like
I think, have more empathy for other people.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
For sure, So you have more concern for.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Other people to try to share our story because maybe
it'll help other people.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
So it's also that idea of like we heal ourselves
and we have we can be this you know pebble
in the ripple that goes out into humanity. That's like, ah,
like what else is possible?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah? This hurts? Look where it got Yeah, kind of
the path that I got you to to walk through.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
That absolutely, absolutely, so yeah, so it's interesting to hear
that I didn't know that about your parents. But yes,
it's like in your very young formative years usually like
five and under is kind of where that karmic Well,
then that will play out.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, so that would make total sense in my life.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, we talk about like then the
call is for youth and past life creating it also
to because of that wound of loss, sometimes we can
hyperfixate on like the physicality, and again that's part of
the first house thing, but like if I look like this,
I won't lose that, or if I present myself in
this way, then I won't lose that. And a lot
(36:39):
of times I see signatures like this where people will
sometimes develop like eating disorders or things that are physically
around lack of resources, because Taurus is resources and the
first house is that physicality. So even sometimes in severe cases,
it'll be people who have like eating disorders or extreme hoarding,
like actual physical hoarding, not just like I'm trying to
(37:00):
hoard relationships or hoard experiences. So it can play out
very dramatically sometimes in people's charts depending on how they
respond to the to the stimulus of their environment.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah. I always thought it was so interesting that I
had Taurus in my first house and my Chirra on there,
and I have a whole business. You know, I'm a
stylist as well, and so my whole business is around
external beauty basically and making things look a certain way,
which makes sense with Taurus. But it's also like, very
interesting how it could play into some of this stuff.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
I feel, well, you know what's beautiful about that, Kelly,
is your libra because you having that Pluto and Libra.
Anytime I see Libra, I'm like, oh, this person is
like either an interior designer or a styl because Libra
is about balance too.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Right, we're stellium, I think. I mean, I don't know
if it is platinum implacidus, but it is in whole house. Yeah,
very much Libra energy.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
And you and we say Stellium's by sign. You get
the superpowers of that sign. Okay, house, you get the challenges. Okay,
So you have like for for this, this would say
you have like obstacles. You face obstacles in the sixth house,
which again is like physicality, healing, diet and routine like
all that kind of stuff. But your superpowers are those
Libra superpowers where it's like I can look at an
(38:15):
environment and I can bring it into harmony. You can
see the things that create beauty. Libra needs beauty. It's
not vanity. It is like a need of the soul
to be in a beautiful, serene, harmonious place.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, like electetics, calm me down. It's a beautiful surrounding
that I'm in that makes me very peaceful and calm.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yes, a chaotic crazy room would actually have mental repercussions
for Libra. Yeah, really strong libor placements.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
So it's kind of cool because you're you're living out
your stellium without even knowing it with that Tourus. You know,
it's like these Libra and Taurus, but they're playing so
beautifully there, and it's really unlocking this very healing space
for you by being able to use that styling and
using that physicality and like really embracing that part of
your chart which is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
This is where astrology just gets so interesting to me
and where people are always like mah whatever, And I
think if they just had a real reading though, because
when you're getting a true reading. Like even the stuff
we're talking about right now, it's so spot on two
things that you would never even think about, and it
just makes everything makes sense to me.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah. And the thing too, I think, Kelly, is that
people think how they are is how everybody are it is,
and they take them for granted.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
So I'll talk to people all the time and they'll
be like, well, that's like how everyone is.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Like, no, no, it's not.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
This is uniquely you.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yes, you're uniquely doing you.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
It's not. I don't function in this way at all. Right,
So it's kind of amazing that we can live our
charts and have these pass forward and be uniquely ourselves.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Really, and so now that we are, we have it
all together and we understand the whise what is like,
what am I supposed to do with that?
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Now?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
So couple of things. You as an individual are on
a profound journey of spiritual exploit, exploration and healing, and
as you are doing that, you are sharing that and
it is vastly important for communities around you, some of
which are known to you, okay, and some of which
you will never know the implications.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I relate that to music. I love music, and there
are artists that I have heard their songs and they
have gotten me through times that have been so pivotal
in my life that I honestly feel like without some
of those songs or artists, I don't know how I
would have made it through. Yeah, and they will never
know me. Yeah, you never meet me. They will never
have any idea who the heck I am out here?
(40:52):
And the impact, but my god, the impact that is
your spiritual journey and transformation. Okay, and you using your
voice to amplify that. It makes you a leader in
your known community. But that's what I mean for people
outside listeners. You may never meet listeners who may never
comment all these feel like, yeah, God, all these one
(41:13):
hundred thousand, couple hundred thousand people do they even read that?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yes, that's how I feel all this not because anybody
out there.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
He hello, yeah, mueller, mueller.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, it must be into a that like what are y' all?
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Thing?
Speaker 2 (41:28):
But yeah, the trolls are typically louder than the people
who are resonating. And I say this to listeners all
the time too, and sometimes they'll pop in and be like,
just wanted you to know we are listening, like, because
you do sort of feel like, uh, is this helpful?
I don't know. I mean I love talking about it,
but I want to know it's resonating too, So yeah,
that's good to know. That's just a piece of the
puzzle for me.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
It is. It's vastly helpful for you, but it's also
unlocking things for people in ways that we'll both be
made a parent throughout your life and also have further
implication than this life that you'll ever even realize how
much they've impacted you.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Okay, yeah, very very big deal.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah, why not? It is about having discernment though in spirituality,
so you are sifting and sorting experiences and not all
of it will be for you and you and I
spoke a little bit about the great thing about astrology
being broader is a lot more people see what a
cool tool it can be. And it is just a
tool in the toolbox, right. I don't subscribe to astrology
(42:27):
being the only tool. Yeah, but it also gives rise
to Charlatan's in this information and click bait astrology, And
to me, the power of astrology is not like what
your best sex position is. I mean, that's cool. I'm
sort of more here for like, I mean, that is
really great.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yeah, I mean that's fun to know.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
But I'm here to be like, who am I? What
am I doing? How can my life have meaning?
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Is exactly?
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Yes, that is the astrology that we were talking about here,
and that is what your chart spirituality is asking you
to do and explore and so so cool that you're
doing that. It's also saying that you are the light, okay,
And as you embrace your vulnerability, you are that light
and that voice that's being amplified and that people are
(43:14):
learning from and resonating from, Okay. And I think that's
important because a lot of people, I think, when we
are successful or we're more in like a more public sphere,
you invoke criticism, you invoke polarity, and people have a
lot of commentary because it's a lot easier to comment
on your life and how we think you're messing it
(43:36):
up or doing it right than it is to go
live our own lives. And so I always think of
there's a really famous speech that Teddy Roosevelt gave about the.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yes. I love that one. I have it in my room.
I have to read it almost every day.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
I love that You're one of the only people I've
known that actually knows what I'm talking about. No, exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I guess we should tell the listeners what we're talking about.
Do you know the quote it's the in the arena
is do you know it by heart? I don't know
it by heart, but I.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Don't know it by heart. But the ethos is about
all credit goes to the man in the arena and
not the spectators on the side. Right.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Basically, unless you're in the arena, like, sit the fuck down,
is what I tell myself the morning, Like, unless you're
in the arena doing the work, stop, like, don't criticize it,
don't judge it, don't speak out against it, because unless
you're in there, you really don't know what you're up against.
That's correct, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
And you don't know the courage it takes to put
yourself out there, exactly. And it's funny because I have
that one, and then I have the one about success
as many parents failure as an orphan, and everybody wants
to say what an overnight success you are, and how
lucky you are and how blessed you are and how
and they don't know. And that is true, sure, And
they don't see how you know, bloodied and beaten and
(44:52):
how many times you had to pick yourself up to
get there. Yes, and so everyone wants to step in
when you're a success and say what a greaty hand
they had, how great you are, But when you're down,
everybody disappears. Like that's my reminder that like, no, I'm
the one in the arena, though, you're the one in
the arena putting yourself out there willing to subject yourself
to scrutiny and critical comments because you're willing to be
(45:15):
vulnerable and you're willing to live this life out loud,
and you're willing to live out your chart and like
do big things in a way that some people find intimidating,
and they choose to rather than rise to the occasion
of their own lives, criticize yours.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Ooh, do you know you don't know how much I
needed that today, but it is I'm curious about with
I know you mentioned that Uranus has been transiting Taurus,
and I don't know if I'm jumping a high with anything,
but because of some things that I've gone through, I
have retreated from being seen. I would say I've wanted
to go into hiding quite frankly, and it felt like
(45:52):
the only way to find safety was to be not
looked at and like don't talk, you know whatever, Just
don't don't make a fuss and nobody look at me
or whatever. I need to go away for a while.
But I knew somewhere inside me that wasn't really my path.
I just didn't. I couldn't quite get out of it.
And I think I'm just now starting to kind of
like feel comfortable, you know, dipping the toe back in,
(46:14):
like testing the water, seeing if it's okay. So is
that because of a transit? Like is there something happening
astrologically that that would make sense for or is it
a period of time if I don't put myself out there,
am I going against my yacht and like not living
out my purpose? Do you know what I mean? Do
you see where I'm going at this? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (46:33):
So.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
I think the call that you're having one, I think
you need to give yourself a lot of credit and
a lot of grace because sometimes we do just need
to pull the wool over ourselves and great for a minute,
right now, everybody can get beat up all day, every
day forever.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
No, and just take it right, we're all yemans.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yes, yes, Sometimes the safest course is to just be
like I'm going to take a real deep breath in
a step back for a minute. And that doesn't mean
that you're out of it forever. Rights right at that
place of safety for a moment. Now, my intuition would say,
you're hearing the call again because this uranus transit is
happening right over your chiron, which is the focalizer of
(47:10):
your yacht, And so Kiron is saying, Kelly, be authentic,
be vulnerable, share, let the ego death happen. Understand that
the you know, the criticism is not who you are.
That's a reflection of the criticizers, not of the criticized, right, Yeah,
that's their perspectives. Yeah, that is not who you don't
even know me, they don't know, So it's not representative
(47:35):
who you are. And you've taken that time and you've
had that little bit of retreat that you needed, and
now with that uranus sitting right because uranus is transitting
right now, it's like twenty six degrees I think, and
your chiron is a twenty sixth or less than a
degree apart, Yeah, less than a degree apart. So Uranus,
you're whimsy, you're weird, your uniqueness. I love your honest.
(47:58):
I always say it's our It's so literal in what
it is in the aspect of who we are. In astrology, right,
your honus is the planet that rolls. It doesn't orbit,
it doesn't rotate, it's orbit. It rolls, and it's orbit
only planet that does it. We all look at Mars
and we all say Mars, and we look at your
hous and we say, you're honest, Uranus Urinus, Right, you
don't even know it, right, it's true. It doesn't even
(48:20):
have consensus.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
In its name.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
Yeah, And it is that sense of us. That's our authenticity,
our whimsy, our weird is to be celebrated about what's unique.
And so that planet that's saying like, be extra amp up,
your extra be you, is right now coming right over
that chiron, which is your finger of God pointing to like,
this is your healing path. You being you, You, being
(48:44):
authentic is deeply healing and then also is helping other
people and it's unlocking resources for you, and it's unlocking
opportunity for you. And we do it for the spiritual work.
But often the side effect of that work ends up
being like career unlocks and relationship unlocks and kind of
(49:04):
all the things that we thought weren't important sort of
fall into place too. It's just really true.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah. I feel like when you're being your most authentic
self and you are working with your higher self or
whatever you want to call it, on these kind of paths,
you do start to one find what is more authentic
to you in relationship and work and all the things,
and so it just kind of all starts to fall
in line because of that foundation that you're planting. I agree.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
And the more what's saying, the most personal is the
most universal. You start realizing like, oh, we've all been
running around pretending like we don't feel these things or
oh yeah, and then you share your really personal and
everyone too you're like, oh, just a bunch of weirdos.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Why were we talking about this?
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Then yes, run around so and so. I think that's
just really cool and very important, and it is your
path in this lifetime more than anything else here. That
is so your path in this lifetime is this unlocking
of your authentic self, your authentic voice, your authentic spirituality,
(50:13):
and sharing that with the world. And sharing that with
a partner and sharing that you know is deeply healing
for you, and that is because of past life stuff.
And we'll do another one sometimes where we'll dig into
your past life because.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I mean, we have to now, yeah exactly, I definitely
I have so many questions about the past life stuff.
And I know if any of the listeners are familiar
with like their north and south note, I mean, is
that what you work with for that? Okay, yep, And
that is all very fascinating. I've tiptoed again a little
bit into that stuff. But and I can see the
south notes show up in my life sometimes now with
(50:46):
mine's and Capricorn, I believe, but it is. Yeah, so
there's definitely stuff that I can see, but I want
to know more. So we'll have to have you back
and do that because this is so fascinating. But I
know we talked about my chart a lot, but I
love to give you guys the example of how the
kind of work that you do, Jill can be done
and what it can help with. And so that's why
I always want to do that. If there are people
(51:08):
listening and they're like, wait, I want to do that.
I want to know what to do with my Chiron?
Do you work with people like this or how does
that go?
Speaker 3 (51:16):
Oh? Yeah, So Chiron has been, like I said, super
instrumental for me personally, just because it's discovery for myself,
Like I discovered it, yeah, for myself at a time
when I was really confronting abuse and trauma, and so
I became sort of iopically fixated on it for a while.
And so I have a Chiron worksheet on my website
for people if they're just curious again mad libs, like
(51:36):
you can enter yours on and your Chiron position and
it'll give you a little mad libs to kind of
unlock your Chiron and what it's trying to tell you
in your life. Okay, that's on my website And then yes,
I do. I do readings for people all the time still.
So it's like my greatest honor is when people trust
me with their chart because it's very personal. It is
very personal, deeply personal, and I appreciate people letting me
(51:57):
lend my expertise and my lens of perspective an intuition
to their charts. Yeah, really beautiful unlock for people. And
I think my hope is people feel seen when they
walk away.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
That's what it makes me feel. And I think I
said the comparison to therapy earlier, but I know it
can be intimidating to people, and I think the same
for therapy. It's like, before you do it, you're like, oh,
you know, making up all the bad scenarios. But the
reality is is we walk around this world just kind
of throwing different medicators at all these feelings that we have,
(52:27):
and we're holding all these feelings inside. And sometimes when
you do stuff like this, like even understanding yourself more
via your astrology chart, that feeling scene piece that you're
talking about, immediately lessons all the noises inside, like the anxiety,
the depression, all of that stuff, because you're seen and
that's what our soul really wants, I think. So that's
why it feels good to me. I think you're really
(52:47):
verbalizing that really well. But I will put your website
in the description of this podcast because I'm assuming that's
how people will book sessions with you as well, right, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, absolutely,
So if you guys are wanting to do what Jill
and I just did with your chart and just kind
of understand for me, it's just helpful to know where
I'm going and that I'm on the right track or
(53:08):
can be working with certain pieces of it. More. Go
check out her website and even put in the Chiron worksheet.
That would be a good place to start, I feel
for Yeah, it's all free, Okay, amazing, and we'll have
to have you back to do some past live talk
so we can understand this more. It was really interesting
to think through astrology and an evolutionary standpoint. I love that.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
Yeah, and it's probably again for most people seeing wholehouse astrology,
it's probably different lens of perspective too, to consus you
see your chart in a different system, right, Yeah, yeah,
totally kind of fun too.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here and
talking with us today.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Kelly.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Thanks for listening to the Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,
where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a
little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,
and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
Yes,
Host
Kelly Henderson
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