This week, couples therapist, coach, and author Carolyn Sharp joins Kelly to discuss her new book, Fire It Up: Four Secrets to Reigniting Intimacy and Joy in Your Relationships. Carolyn dives into why relationships get stale and shares her transformative four-step process to bring back love, connection, and vitality.
From understanding how relationships work to uncovering your unique needs and mastering the "communication dance," Carolyn offers practical tools to create a healthier emotional bond and a thriving relationship. She also reveals why conflict and repair are the most critical skills for lasting love and how building emotional intimacy is the key to reigniting passion.
Book: Fire It Up
Find Carolyn on Instagram: @secureconnectionscoaching
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HOST: Kelly Henderson // @velvetsedge // velvetsedge.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The couples therapist, coach and author Carolyn Sharpe is here.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Carolyn, Hey, Kelly, how are you. I'm doing well. Thank
you so much for being here. You and I were
just talking. You've written this amazing book for couples and
it's called Fired Up, and we're going to get to
all of that. But I loved the sentiment you just
said about why you even wanted to write this book,
because I completely agree with you. So can you repeat
that for the listeners?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Sure? I will try to do my best at repeating
what I said. So you know, part of my hope
and dream for this book is that it helped people
and help the world, because they think that a lot
of what is wrong in the world is a relationship problem.
Our inability to connect with others past our differences, to
find common ground, to really understand each other, I think
(00:59):
is really lacking. So I really hope and dream that
it can be of service to the world.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I mean, we're seeing that on such a big scale,
I think across the board, and everyone can probably understand
where we're coming from with that statement. But I agree
with you that it starts with the small relationships or
the day to day relationships. And that's what this book
is all about. Fired Up is about what to do
when your relationship gets stale. And I can't tell you.
(01:28):
I'm in my forties, so I can't tell you the
amount of conversation that I have with friends who have
been in long term relationships. I think I'm kind of
at that age where people are going, whoam I've been
in this relationship for a really long time. I love
this person, I have a family with this person, but
it is stale. So can you talk through why does
(01:51):
a relationship get stale?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
A relationship gets stale because we take our relationships for granted.
We think, and you know, this is maybe the fault
of Hollywood movies and fairy tales that once you meet
your prince or princess charming, things are good. You don't
need to work at it, and if it's meant to be,
it should be easy, and all of these sorts of ideas.
(02:15):
And so we get married or we make a commitment
to someone and then we sort of check that off
of the lists, like, all right, that area of my
life it's taken care of. I can focus on my career,
I can focus on my family, whatever it is, and
we just let our relationship go on autopilot, and relationships,
like anything else that matters to us, takes work, you know.
(02:38):
The thing worth doing is something we have to put
work into. And people are less intentional with their relationships
than they are with other areas of their life, and
so that's why it grows stale. We sort of take
our eye off the ball, to use a sports metaphor,
which I'm the least sporty person in terms of you know,
professional sports. But we take our off the ball and
(03:00):
focus on other things, and then a relationship goes to sleep.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Right you say in the book, you know life is
full of constant stress, and it is so we're being
pulled in a million different directions all the time, especially
nowadays you can just even get on your phone and
be pulled into a million different directions. And it's so
interesting to me though, because it's we complain about it
being stale, but it's almost as if the place that
we feel the safest, like you said, is the place
(03:26):
that we kind of disregard the most. Why does our
brain do that?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Well? I think it is an aspect of creating that
safety and knowing, okay, I've got my partner here, They're
gonna be here no matter what. We make that promise,
And so we take that promise at face value, like
it's it's good here, and so I can focus my
energy on other things. And and I say this to
(03:52):
my couples who have kids. You know, the kids rage
against us because they feel safe here. We've created a
capaner or they can rage against us. So it is
a beautiful thing in a way that our partner knows
that they can count on us to always be there.
But we need to not use that, you know, just
like we teach our kids. You know, just because I'm
(04:14):
safe doesn't mean you get to talk to me like that.
Just because our relationship is we have set the intention,
we have made the commitment to be together for the
rest of our lives, doesn't mean we can just you know,
take it for granted. Take it. I was about to
use another metaphor, take the hands off the wheel and
let it drive itself. I'm just going to use seven
different metaphors, all of it. I metaphor doesn't mean we
(04:38):
should stop paying attention to it. But you know, the
other reason I think that we do that is relationships
are hard. I think that they're the hardest thing we
do as adults. And you know, we're living as mirrors
of each other. We're seeing each other and living with
each other and seeing each other's flaws and having our
flaws reflected back to us. And that's uncomfortable, in particular
(05:00):
in the pandemic when we were in lockdown for as
long as we were couples. We're spending way too much
time together and we're avoiding all the hard conversations. And
I think that really became a habit where we're not
going to talk about the fact that you're on my nerves.
We're just going to turn to our phones and look
at TikTok for the time being. Whatever it becomes, we'll see,
(05:24):
we'll see. And it just became easier. It became a
new habit of avoiding having the real conversations that we
need to take care of our relationship.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
God, there's so many things in that statement than the
last paragraph that you just said that I want to
touch on. But you'd said one thing about our partners
on our nerves. Is there something more to understanding why
your partner is on your nerves?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, there's always more to understand, always, always, And the
more we understand in our relationship, the deeper and richer
they are. So you know that habit that is annoying.
This is a fun problems that I go through with couples,
a little bit of a game that I play of
understanding why does it drive my partner crazy that I
(06:07):
hang the toilet paper one way and they hang it
the other way? What is that really about? And that's
such a silly example.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
No, it's the perfect example because my boyfriend and I
have been in this exact archident. That's why I laughing
this second you said it. It is literally the thing
that we have been talking about the most. It's a
kind of a joke between us. But those are the
kind of things that come up, right, the main absolutelynny things.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yes, absolutely, And it's you know, when I do presentations
out in the community, I will get volunteers, whether it's
an actual couple or two strangers or two colleagues, will
come up with something stupid like that, so or something
small like that and have them act that out, and
(06:52):
always the richness of what's underneath that of because there's
two levels of communication, there's content and process, and content
is don't hang it this way, hang it that way.
That's the facts or the data of the situation process
is the deeper level of meaning, what it means to
you when I hang it the way I do, or
what you know, so on and so forth, And getting
(07:14):
to that meaning provides so much richness to the relationship.
To understand that when I hang it the way you
don't like it tells it means to you that I'm
not listening to you, that I don't value you, that
what's important to you isn't important to me. What you're
making that meaning out of me hanging the toilet paper
in the way I am, Well, yeah, because otherwise, if
(07:35):
it didn't mean something to you, you wouldn't get annoyed,
you wouldn't get upset. And so helping couples focus their
energy to why does this matter in the first place
is like a mind blowing experience for them. And this
can happen in our romantic relationships, it can happen in
our friendships with our siblings, whoever. And that's what I'm
(07:56):
you know, that's the way I'm trying to help people
in the world is to understand it, understand that person
that you have these great differences with that make you
so mad. If you could understand what it means to
that person, maybe you would help you connect with them.
You don't have to be best friends, you don't have
to agree, but you can connect in a way where
(08:16):
now you can be polite, you can be kind, you
could be compassionate to this person that has these differences.
But that is so hard right now, and I think
we're all losing as a result. Yeah, I did go
off on a tangenty No, that's.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I think that's all very, very important, And I was
just thinking as you were talking. I always say that
relationships are my greatest teachers, and I think that's true
for most of us if we're actually paying attention. But
the reason I say that they're they're my greatest teachers
is not because of necessarily what I learn about the
other person, but it's what I learned about me. And
(08:54):
I think that it's so important and it's a huge
piece that we miss and I think this is what
the book really touches on such a great way. But
whatever is coming up, like if I am bothered, it's
about me. That was the biggest statement I've had to
learn over the years. That's going Wait, if the toilet
paper roll is annoying me so much. Why the whys
(09:15):
behind it are so important? And that's what this book
really really touches on, and I think that is the
most helpful tool in a relationship ever. So you give
this whole four step process into really diving into the whys.
So I kind of want to talk through a little
bit of that without giving the book away fully for
the listeners though, to understand, let's get into this first step,
(09:40):
and a lot of it is understanding you, So can
you talk through a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, the first step in this is that foundational piece
of understanding the why of being in the relationship in
the first place. What is the purpose of us being together,
of us being friends or us being partners? Why? And
couples default too, it's love. You know, we're together for love,
and that's fantastic and that's beautiful. But anyone that's been
(10:08):
in a relationship that's lasted more than even a few
months knows that that love feeling, that love sentiment isn't constant.
If you live with another person, you especially have insight
into this that you love your partner, but you can
also hate your partner at the same time. So you
need a purpose beyond love to get you through those
(10:30):
hard moments when you want to run out the door
or throttle them or whatever. Not talking literally obviously, but
you know, through those moments you need to have that purpose,
that understanding of why are we together? What is what
are we doing here together? That is beyond just being
in love with each other. So that's the first part
that they think is so critical.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, so the foundation of the why of the whole
relationship in general on you's had some such an important
thing about those those butterfly feelings or whatever. Like we all,
if you've been in any sort of long term relationship,
you know that those are the things that die off,
which then in turn makes the relationship feel stale. So
if we're realizing that that is where we are, and
(11:14):
we're getting to the place of like we're really stale,
the foundation feels rocky, is it actually rocky or do
we how do we know that? Like, how do we
know if the relationship is not serving us anymore or
that it's just stale.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
The thing that I tell couples, any problem, any rockiness,
can be fixed in a relationship as long as it's
not abuse, as long as both people want it. So
if it's rocky, you can make it not rocky again.
If you both choose to, it stops serving you. If
either one or both of you have you decided I
(11:50):
don't want this anymore, that's the place where I can't
help anybody, and couples can't really be helped. If you've
decided to leave the relationship, you know, physically or psychically mentally,
then the relationship is over. It's really a decision that
you make where depth and growth comes from recommitting, choosing
(12:12):
again to reinvest in the relationship and decide to figure
out why are we having this rockiness, why are we
having this problem, why is this challenge here? And certainly again,
if there is abuse happening in the relationship, physical emotional,
then the relationship obviously needs to end. But beyond that
(12:32):
kind of mistreatment, real intentional mistreatment, anything can be fixed
as long as both people are invested in getting to
the other side and doing the work to get there.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
When you're doing therapy, I know you've done couples therapy
for years and coaching, how often are you seeing people
just come in and want to fight each other versus
actually get to the why.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I don't think I see people that want to fight
person that that is their intention of I'm gonna I
just want to fight with you. If they are seemingly
wanting to fight, it's because they're scared where they don't
feel safe. And I'm differentiating between that in the sense
that I don't feel safe to be myself, and so
(13:16):
I need to keep this armor up. I need to
keep focusing on what you're saying or how you're saying it.
I need to keep being loud or aggressive. And I
just mean in terms of tone or energy, not physical.
It's because I don't feel safe or because I'm scared.
If I let that guard down, I'm gonna be lost,
(13:38):
I'm going to be left, I'm going to be vulnerable,
or all that sort of stuff, which is a similar
vibe or a similar tone to not feeling safe, but
a little bit a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So this is where the next step would come in
of understanding all of these needs and all of these
things that are coming up within us. And I want
to talk a little bit about that because I feel
like you can go on your own journey of self exploration,
but until you get into a relationship, I'm not sure
(14:10):
you can go as deep like you can only get
so far by yourself. I guess it's my point. And
then you get into a relationship and like you mentioned earlier,
everything is mirrored back to us, whether that's the good
parts of us or the things that were coming up
feeling really defensive about like you just mentioned, where we
might not be feeling safe, and so we go into
(14:30):
attack or defend mode. So how important is it to
understand your own shit, your own background, your own like
childhood wounding and all of those pieces.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Well, I think it's critically important. I think together in
a relationship, you want to create understanding for both of you.
Usually the sort of safest way in is to have
partners focus on understanding their partner and then their partner
understands them, and by that you create a create an
environment of deep understanding and acceptance. That's what you're trying
(15:03):
to get to is accepting each other as people, not
accepting every annoying behavior or every difficult behavior, but accepting
the person underneath that and accepting that you know, really
every behavior has a cause, has that why of you know,
you're hanging the toilet paper for this reason, or you're
yelling for this other reason, or you're walking out of
(15:24):
the room for this third reason, and understanding that why
helps your partner know, Okay, I see what you're trying
to do, and let's together figure out a different way
to get that need met. So I think it's critically important,
and I think you spoke to it so beautifully. You know.
I've had people who've left a relationship and then they
(15:44):
come in to me as a therapist and they say,
I'm going to be single for a while because I
want to learn how to be in relationship, and I
chuckle lovingly, because you can't learn how to be in
a relationship by yourself. We learn relationships through relationships. That's
how it's done. That's how we started as infants, learning
(16:04):
about relationships from the relationships we had with our caregivers
and between our caregivers and in our family in general.
So through this relationship we learn the most about each other.
It is through those reflections and through those deep conversations
that we really learn about our shit. And it's through
creating that safety with each other to understand, Okay, this
(16:25):
is hard, this is messy, this makes me uncomfortable, but
we're committed to really creating a deep rich conversation, a
deep rich environment, and it's in that that you have
the most vibrant relationship when you have that understanding and
that acceptance.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
This whole podcast is basically me talking through different two
different facilitators, different therapists, a sort of person doing any
sort of soul seeking. And the reason I even got
on that journey is because my relationships weren't working. And
so when I'm having conversations sometimes outside of this podcast,
(17:12):
with friends, just people I meet, whatever, and there isn't
this understanding of that connection where it's like, if I
don't learn about me and learn how to communicate about me,
it will manifest in my relationships. And for me, it
was about the relationships I was choosing. It was how
I was interacting in them. Can you explain that to
(17:34):
listeners in a way or is digestible because sometimes I'm
not sure I'm communicating it properly.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Sure? Well, you know what you're speaking to is really
about attachment theory, and it's about an attachment theory to
be really simplistic, it's how we are trained to be
a relationship. We attached to our caregivers, to our parents.
We are dependent on them and Through that relationship, we
learn about the world and what's safe to do, what's
not safe to do, how we're supposed to feel, how
(18:01):
we're supposed to express or not express our feelings. We
are trained and given a style of relating based on
what we are taught is the right way to be,
the wrong way to be, the safe way to be,
the unsafe way to be. And then when we are adults,
we create new attachments somewhat with our friends, although those
are really sort of different because there isn't as much
(18:22):
writing on them as our our partnerships, our romantic partnerships.
And so in that choosing we are looking for and
then there's some research here that is super fascinating. When
we are sort of hooking up quote unquote, our brain
is looking for genetic difference because hooking up is about
(18:44):
spreading genetic seeds, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
So exciting to us.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That's why it's so exciting, because we are you know,
we've got all the passion, we've got all that stuff.
Because as a species, we're looking to spread, diversify the
genetic makeup of the species, because a healthy species is
a diverse species, because you know, cousins having sex with cousins.
You're going to have someone that's going to have some
(19:10):
pretty significant genetic challenges because there isn't enough to diversity
in that species. Well, you know, we're not supposed to
hook up with our brothers. Gross sorry, Adie, that's my
brother's name anyway. And so when we're hooking up, we're
looking for genetic difference. But then flip to six to
(19:33):
eighteen months later, which is when we make the switch
to pair bonding or mating for life, our brain switches
to look for genetic stimilarity, what feels and looks like
what we are used to. So then we're looking for
what we came to understand was normal in relationship. So
(19:54):
you would look for the dynamics. And this is where
the expression I married my mother or I married my
father's sort of thing comes from. Although it's not that
linear a connection. It's more about the dynamic you experienced
growing up. So if you grew up in a family
where performance was the norm, like you had to perform
and be the best in order to get acknowledgment, that's
(20:16):
what you would choose. In a dynamic in your relationship
or a high conflict environment where everybody you know, like
I grew up in New York State and sarcasm and direct,
blunt directness was the thing. And then I married someone
from southern California, where directness not the thing, and we
had to navigate that because my directness was a little
(20:38):
much for him. So on and so forth. But we
reenact the dynamic that we experience in childhood of you know,
my husband feeling criticized or like he had to perform,
and me feeling like I had to take care of myself.
You know, all of these things become re enacted, and
so that's why people choose you feel like they're you know,
(21:02):
they choose badly. You don't choose badly. You choose a
dynamic that is familiar and through in each relationship, getting
healthier working through with that partner. Alright, I think I'm
re enacting something helped me not do that anymore. You
evolve past that such that you're no longer looking for that.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
I love that explanation because I used to say my
picker is broken, and I quickly have realized that doesn't
help me at all to say it that way, And actually,
my picker is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing.
For me to heal. So it's it's literally picking the
person that's going to trigger me the most so that
(21:42):
I finally address what is still unhealed within me yep,
which was like mind blowing to realize, even though it
seems really simple. I thought, oh oh, And the more
I talk to myself in the way of like my
picker is broken, the worse it gets for me because
it's only making a shot at my self esteem and
making me feel like I'm so messed up beyond repair
(22:05):
that I shouldn't even be in relationships, Like your patients
said or your clients said, yeah, like I'm going to
go out and fix myself or something like we're something
to be fixed. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Right, And that to that question earlier of you know,
is there a point that the rockiness indicates that we
should move on? Yeah, we will regulate. Tell couples you
picked each other for a reason, right, because there's opportunity
for heal to heal. If you choose to leave this relationship,
chances are you're going to have this exact same dynamic
(22:36):
in your next relationship. And that's that's what happens over
and over and over again. Of like, oh, few, I'm
out of that relationship, I don't have to deal with addiction,
or I don't have to deal with yelling anymore, or
a high conflict, and then it shows up in the
next relationship. It looks a little different, but it's usually
the same experience in relationship of not feeling safe, not
(22:57):
feeling good enough, not feeling lovable, not feeling wanted, whatever
it is that you felt in that previous relationship. Unless
you figured out how to not do that anymore, chances
are it's going to come alive again for next relationship.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Right And for me, it was always actually a worse
like or bigger. The magnitude of how it was showing
up was bigger because it was trying to get my attention,
Like yes, the things inside of me were like, Okay,
we gotta really work this stuff out. It's time. And
so then I would pick someone else who, like you said,
looked very All of my partners have looked so different
(23:35):
on the outside. Like if you looked at my partners
from a physical perspective, you would say, she doesn't have
a type, but I have a type, or I had
a type, you know. And so until I was ready
to do the bigger healing, it was going to keep
showing up. I do think it's important. I know you
touched on this earlier. For me, I'm in a relationship
(23:57):
now with a partner who wants to do the work
himself and with me, and so it's been a beautiful experience.
I think we met each other at a time in
both of our lives where we were like, okay, jigs up,
like this is happening. We've done enough of our own
healing to know that there is this about me that
is ready to be worked out and so we can
work together. But then I've been in relationships in the
(24:19):
past where it was never going to be that because
the other person wasn't in that space. So it is
very important. I just want to say that for the listeners,
like and you can't force someone to be ready unless
they they want to themselves. I spent many years trying.
I'm just trying to save you guys, the time that
I wasted. It felt like, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
There's only one person we can change, and that's ourselves.
And the amount of time couples waste trying to get
their partner to function more like themselves or force them
to do the work. You can't do that. Mel Robbins
talks about this beautifully, you know, in the sort of
let them her new book, Let Them, you know, let
your partner be your part partner. It's critically important. That's
(25:02):
that acceptance piece. We can inspire our partner toward growth.
We can't force or arm wrestle them into it. It
is about recognizing okay, And usually this is true. I
haven't made it safe for my partner to want to
do the work with me because I'm implying, because usually
it's a you would really benefit from therapy, which translates
(25:25):
to the partner as my partner thinks I'm broken, My
partner thinks I'm a problem, and then they get defensive,
and then they don't feel invited and they don't feel accepted.
They feel shamed, and who feels shamed and then wants
to go open that up versus an invitation of I
really want to have a richer relationship with you. I
(25:45):
really feel like I could learn a lot through you.
Let's take on this journey together. That sounds different from
we need therapy and you have to do this with me,
or you need this program, or you need to read
this book. I don't recommend that for anybody.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I've done all of those.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, so earlier. Yeah, no, it never does, no, never is.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
The second piece of that one for me was always
when people show you who you are, believe them, because
I would be like, yeah, I don't really know, like
you know, I think maybe if we just have one
conversation that hits right, this person won't feel that way
or they'll change or whatever. And I was trying to
actually change who the person was. And that's no, it's
really again that was about me and my own stuff.
(26:40):
When you get into the next step, one of the
main pieces that I just genuinely think is so massively
important repair, so conflict and repair and relationships. So we're
getting so in the book, like if we're walking through
the steps a little bit, you decide what you know,
the foundation of the relationship comes up, why are we
in this? Then you really get to know your own stuff,
(27:01):
how that's impacting your relationship. Then you get to this
piece that's like, okay, well how do we work together?
And I don't think this has talked about enough in
our society, the importance of repair. The more I've learned
about it, the more I've experienced it, the more I'm like,
this is the most crucial piece to all of my
relationships ever, Like it is literally it, it's the thing.
(27:25):
So what does repair look like? Because I just genuinely
don't think anyone even knows conflict and to repair.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yep. Well, And the piece that I think is so
crucial to mention is we don't learn from everything going well.
We don't learn from comfort and things being perfect. We
learned from mistakes and failures. And mistakes and failures are
not what harm relationships. I mean, certainly, of course, there
(27:54):
are certain mistakes that are unequivocally harmful, but it is
not really the mistakes that harm a relationship. It's the
absence of repair. Because repair says to you, you're more
important to me than being right, You're more important to
me than being infallible. I want you to feel safe,
and so I'm going to take accountability and I'm going
(28:14):
to make sure you're oh okay as a result of
me doing that dumb thing, which we're all human. We
all do dumb shit every day. You know, we're bumbling
around through life and we're you know, stepping on each
other's toes all over the place when we share life together.
So it's not the mistakes that matter, it's the repair.
And repair is about and you know, I go through
(28:35):
and it's my editor's favorite part, the non repairs, the
non apologies that exist for us. But repair is about
taking accountability. Well, first, it's about understanding the impact the
harm had on the part on my partner. So for
me to hear I see that you're hurt, I want
to understand your experience of this hurt and taking the
(28:57):
time to really understand what is it about my action
that caused harm to you? Because we can rush through.
It's one of the things that happens is we rushed
through it because it's very vulnerable to make a repair,
well rush through it thinking all right, well it was
that I raised my voice at you. I'm sorry I
yelled at you, and before I take the time to
(29:18):
really understand, oh no, it wasn't. It wasn't you raising
your voice. It was you saying X to me that
really made me feel bad about myself. Oh I didn't.
I wouldn't have known that. So the first thing is
in really understanding what is it that I did that
was most impactful to you. Then it's taking accountability of
owning I did that, and couples get stuck here because
(29:43):
they will debate that content piece and is that what
I actually said, or is that what I meant? Or
it did I was I really late toward you know,
all that sort of stuff, and it's a waste of
time to debate that first piece of understanding. What is
it that hurts you? Will help you know how to
take accountability. I'm sorry I said that, or if if
(30:05):
you've really if your brain is really stuck on me,
that's not what I said or that's not how I
said it, Then just apologize for hurting the partner. Sorry
I hurt you, So take take accountability, and then check
in and make sure that does your partner feel better?
You've seen it. And the sort of metric I use
is your partner look better, same or worse? And if
(30:26):
it's better or same, all right, you're in the in
the right neighborhood. If if worse, all right, you got
to you got to take another swing at it to
make sure that your partner feels better. And so that's
that's the very quick and dirty sort of explanation of
what a repair takes. But the important piece to make
sure to mention is that a successful repair takes two people. Yes,
(30:48):
it takes both the person who's injured, who's made the mistake,
and it takes the receiver of the repair for it
to go well. Because there is a tendency and I
have seen this increase in the last four years, four
to six years to rub people's faces in the mistakes,
rub their face, the difference to say, yeah, you did
(31:09):
hurt me, You're a total jerky. Why did you do that?
You labbaye blah, you know, and that creates no safety. Yeah,
repair is the most powerful thing we can do in
relationship for all the reasons I mentioned before that it
creates safety, it creates healing. Because many of us did
(31:30):
not ever receive repair from our parents, because you know,
lots of generations before us were taught you know, children
are to be seen and not heard, and you know,
all that sort of stuff. So we didn't experience repair.
We didn't witness repair because lots of people, if they made,
lots of couples, if they make mistakes, don't do it
in front of their children. Then don't repair in front
(31:52):
of their children. So kids haven't seen it, so they
don't know what it feels like, and so it's incredibly
healing to receive a repair, and it also creates safety
to be imperfect in the relationship, which is what we
all need because nobody's perfect. We grow through mistakes. So
you want it to be safe in your relationship to
fuck up, excuse my language. And so you need your
(32:15):
partner to be safe to receive a repair. And so
the only appropriate response, the only appropriate response to a
genuine attempt at repair your partner genuinely means to make
it better. The only appropriate response is thank you. That's it,
not you're forgiven, because I don't want anybody forgiving anybody
(32:37):
before they actually feel healed. But you want to first
acknowledge the effort being made on your behalf, and it's
vulnerable to acknowledge. I screwed up and I hurt you
and I'm sorry. You want to make it safe for
your partner to do it because it's so important for
the two of you to be able to practice this.
You have to make it safe by saying thank you
for trying to heal this, yeah, Paul, and then talk
(33:01):
about it. The more of like, I still don't I'm
still hurt, I'm still upset. Can we talk about It's
more yes, but wait, first, applaud your partner for the
attempt well.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And that creates the safety right when you can see
that your partner is sitting there willing to hear you out.
I think a huge thing for all of us is
just we just want to be heard on most occasions.
And then the conflict probably came up because of two people,
something within what we've already touched on, like something from
the past, two different perspectives, seeing the world through two
(33:36):
completely different lenses. Like with two people, you're going to
have conflict. I don't think we talk about that enough either.
It's like two people are never going to see the
world exactly the same, They're never going to have exactly
the same needs you have to learn each other. But
these kind of situations where you're having a conflict doesn't
have to mean World War three. It's actually a time
(33:58):
to take their relationship even deeper and to do healing
from whatever this is you know, immediately coming from. And
I'm so glad that you brought up that it's gotten
worse in the last four to six years, because I
think that's what we're seeing on a macro level. It's
like we can't get over we can't come together on
anything politically, on anything whatever, because the second one person
(34:20):
says huh, or it's proven that maybe something wasn't the
full truth, the other side of whatever is just wanting
to rub everyone's face in it. Nobody's just going, hey,
let's just talk about this, like, let's figure out where
we went wrong or why this came up, or why
you thought this and I thought that. It's like literally,
(34:40):
ha ha ha told you so, over and over in
a cycle and a loop. And so we're never going
to get out of it if we don't stop doing that.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Mm hmmm. I won. I won. I want, I want
exactly and I will. I will use any ammunition. I
will use any information, whether it's valid or not information.
I will gather whatever data data quote un quote to
prove my point and to win over you. And it
is the saddest thing versus being curious and interested in
(35:09):
what other what people who are different than us think,
believe why they think, and believe that what that might
be coming from. There's so much power and benefit and
in doing that, and yet and you know it isn't
happening at home. You know, this is what I'm saying
with couples that they're not curious, they're not being interested
(35:31):
in what is causing this conflict. And the you know,
the the other truth that I would I would repeat
over and over again until I'm blue in the face.
Is every dynamic, Almost every dynamic, nearly every single one,
takes two people to exist. So any problem that exists
in a relationship, there are two people participating in that.
(35:54):
Certainly there are some exclusions, but almost all. And and
you know, when mistakes up, if you really pay attention
and are curious and interested, you can trace it back.
I'll have so many couples come in and go and
this came out of nowhere, all right. That fight that
you're saying just blew up out of nowhere actually started
like four days before when you didn't kiss your partner goodbye,
(36:16):
and then when you were on your phone when they
asked you a question. This adds up over time, and
so then yelling at you out of nowhere and calling
you a name or or using a tone isn't out
of nowhere. And if you trace it back, you can
find your part in the process as well. And that's
where the real growing and the deepening and the intimacy comes.
(36:39):
Is really looking at how could we make this better,
How could we make this healthier? How could we prevent
that fight from ever happening again? You can everybody? Can
you know?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I think you touched on something so brilliant at the
beginning of this that we think we can just get married.
We can build this life, this little fantasy, fairy time whatever,
white picket fence, that is what we have been taught
is the goal. And then it stops, or growing stops,
and my understanding of life has completely changed. And so
(37:11):
I wonder what you feel about this. But like, I
don't think we ever stop growing our learning, or if
we do, that is to a detriment of our life,
our relationships, everything, Like, the more you can stay open
to this is a constant, growing, evolving situation, then the
more your life will benefit. Do you feel that way.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
One hundred percent? I mean, it's it's science, it's everything
that you know. If you were a gym goer, you
don't stop going to the gym once you reach bench
pressing whatever two hundred pounds, You're not going to be
able to maintain that strength unless you work at it.
If you're a gardener, you know you plant a garden.
If you don't weed that garden, if you don't water
(37:54):
that garden, if you don't fertilize that garden, it will
stop producing, right And you know, after one season, you
have to we have to continually practice our skills to
keep growing. And as humans, we're continually changing every day
something different, whether it's you know, like I'm on the
I'm on the I'm on the slow downhill and you know,
(38:16):
in my fifties, so I'm you know, slowing down as
you know, working to keep up on the peloton so
that I don't slow down too fast. But you know,
everything is changing in my body, everything is changing, my
husband's body. We have to react to the changes that
go and the societal changes that are happening. My field
has changed as a result of you know, now mental
(38:39):
health care is largely online. You know, the majority of
therapies happening online now still happens in person. But it's
you know, that has evolved as we grow and learn
more about the human brain, that evolves, podcasts, you know,
social media. Everything is changing around of politics. You know,
(39:00):
oh good golly, all the things they're changing as a
result of the political climate in the US and beyond,
and so that impacts our relationship and impacts us individually
and impacts our relationship, and if we're not adapting to that,
our relationship goes to sleep.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah. Well, the fourth step gets to what I think
everyone would probably get into couple's therapy thinking was the
whole reason they were there. Yeah, and that's intimacy, sex,
the passion, And that is what my friends are coming
to me saying, like, oh, we haven't had sex and
however long, or the passion's dead, and our I think
(39:36):
quick response to that is maybe I need to get
a divorce, or maybe this relationship's over and people quit.
And actually, all of the little steps that we've talked
about up until now get to probably the deepest version
of that that you could ever desire. But it doesn't
look easy or pretty or any of that stuff. So
(39:57):
let's get into that a little bit. Are you seeing
people just want to skip the step and go, why
can't I have the sex I was having at the
beginning of this relationship? Like that died so like it
must be over right?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yep, yep, Yes, they absolutely want to skip the step,
and I drive everybody crazy by making them do the steps. Right,
you know, I'm always careful to acknowledge. Just because I'm
making you do the work doesn't mean you can't be
curious about, be interested in, and be introducing play and
fun and mystery into your relationship even if it's not
(40:30):
sexual way and fun, and in doing so, you may
wake that part of your relationship up. The best sex,
the best romance, the best intimacy is going to come
as a result of doing all of these things. And ps,
it's also those same components that help you have the
(40:50):
really rich, fun, amazing, mind blowing sex. You know, if
you feel accepted and understood sexually, if you are understood
about you, what you like, what feels good, what turns
you on, all of that sort of stuff, sex gets better.
And so many couples skip that step communication. Knowing how
(41:13):
to talk about that and and some of our puritanical
roots way back when to the country's beginning really monkey
with our ability to understand and our ability to make
safe acceptance for who we are sexually to one another.
That you know, your two consenting adults, really anything goes,
But how do we talk about it when we've been
(41:34):
trained that sex is only for making babies or you
shouldn't do X, Y or Z or that's dirty or
that's wrong or whatever. It really monkeys with our capacity
to understand ourselves sexually and understand each other, and so
really creating the safety and a bubble for the for
the two of you for your relationship really enhances that
(41:57):
where you can have way more fun than you've ever
been having. And also just accepting that things change over time.
You know, what, you do the same thing enough times,
it's no longer really all that fun or interest.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
So it gets boring, gets boring.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
And yet couples don't know how to acknowledge that or
talk about that, or make it safe to experiment or
try new things. And you know, in a fifty year
committed relationship, you run out of things to try if
you're not talking about.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
It, right, Isn't it the same step though in a way,
because with sex, it's like, if you don't understand your
own programming about sex or your own blocks, your own
things that came with you from the past, how could
you have conflict and repair about sex with your partner?
(42:49):
How could you like, we can't do any of it
without the other. I guess that's my point, yep, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
You have to understand yourself and you have to understand
your partner, and you have to create safety to be
fully yourself in the relationship. So you know, I mean
it's a uh. You know, with each new exercise you
do from fired up, with each new understanding you gain
your sex, the sex is going to get better. So
(43:17):
you don't have to wait to start playing in that area.
But the more you do from the earlier sections that
the better it's going to get in the later sections.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So, I mean the book is meant to be read sequentially,
but I'm imagining that many people are going to go
to the lamp dreft or read that first. Of course,
of course, you know that's that's human nature, right, we
want we want dessert.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
First, exactly. I want to skip the steps because the
steps are not that fun at the beginning of it.
I think that the more you do it, the more
benefit you see, and the more for me at least,
the more comfort in them I find. And so I
actually want to go to the steps first now because
I know the benefit that will come from it, you know,
(44:03):
as see the reward. I guess it's interesting though, because
I've had many sexual experts on this podcast, all of
them say sex gets better with age. We're missing it,
like it actually is better the more you're doing this
kind of stuff versus this like fairy I keep saying
fairy tale. It's not even that it's this fantasy that
we make up about that passionate beginning, because really, if
(44:26):
you get to the depth of sex with your partner,
with all of these pieces that we've talked about, it's
better than that rando crazy vacation sex you had with
you know, Pallo or whatever. I'm making up. But I
do think that's what people go to. And these are
the conversations I'm having with my friends where it's like, oh,
(44:47):
I just want to weakend tryst with blah blah blah,
and it's like, yeah, it's really not as satisfying as
I think people are making up in their heads.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Right, of course not. And there is something about a
stranger that allows us to be totally uninhibited. Is safety
in not knowing the person you're having sex with because
they don't see your you know whatever, crusty toothbrush on
the sink. They don't see you have to do your laundry,
(45:17):
all that sort of stuff. And estra Perel is wise
and wonderful and talking about a lot of this, and
so there is something in that fantasy of not being known.
But what we're really actually creating is being able to
be completely free and the richest sex is possible when
you have created safety with your partner to be your
(45:37):
messy self and have your partner be totally turned on
even though they do your laundry, even though they negotiate
the bills. It's about recognizing the challenges and creating those
workarounds that, Yeah, the sharing of life together is inherently
un sexy. There's nothing sexy about navigating bills or houseware,
(45:59):
cleaning toilets together. And we can still, you know, be sexy,
you know, be mysterious. We just have to work at it.
And that's the part that no one wants to do.
And the sort of cliche that I use is you
can either invest your time preventing problems or you can
(46:21):
invest time cleaning up the problems, and so you're spending
the time on your relationship. I'm just trying to have
people invest it wisely and with benefit. And I don't
do boring and I don't like I'm not here to
make people miserable. I'm here to have fun into play,
and so with the right spirit, any of this work
(46:42):
in the book is meant to be fun. It's meant
to be an exploration that can be silly and playful
and lighthearted, even as we're talking about painful stuff.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yes, I love that the whole point about you can
either do it now or later, And I think that's
one of the things we miss and relate to. Like
you said, the gem analogy is always a good one
to me. It's like, if you want to be in shape,
you have to go work out, and it's the same
with our relationships, with our inner work. It's all the same.
For some reason, we've just gotten We've been brought up
to believe you don't have to do work around this,
(47:15):
or you can stop doing work like these are continual processes,
just like everything else. You want the results, you have
to do the work.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yep. And people are like, well, you know, I'm going
to take the easy way out. I'm just going to
leave the relationship. It's not worth it to me to
do that work, so I'm going to leave. Leaving a
relationship ain't easy. We're covering from a relationship with getting
over a heartache or loss ain't easy. So there is
no you know, there's no cheating life. There's no really
(47:43):
getting around the work we have to do. We can
either do the work to have a better life, a
richer life, a deeper life, or we can do all
of this work to keep the skeletons in the closet,
you know, like we're like using all our weight to
keep them, keep them behind that door. And I want
everyone to have a richer, more connected life to themselves
(48:04):
and to others. Well.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
And it's like you said earlier, you can leave that
relationship unless it's abusive. There is always that stipulation, but
you can leave that relationship. And I used to have
a mentor say, well, wherever you go there you will
be exactly I'm going to find myself again in the
same probably exact patterns may be worse unless I do
this healing within myself. So anyway, I'm a huge fan
(48:27):
of the book. I love the message you're putting out there.
The other benefit, you guys, is she has all these
exercises in the back of the book, so it's like
it's just the guide to figuring it all out. It's wonderful.
It is out now. Like I said, I'll put the
link to this book in the description of this podcast.
But Carolyn, where else can people find you? If they
want to keep up with your work?
Speaker 2 (48:48):
They can find me at Secure Connections Coaching on Instagram
and Facebook, Secure Connections Coach on TikTok if TikTok is
still alive when this podcast stairs or Carolyn Sharp also
on face book and all of my contact information. If
people have questions or you want to chat about how
I might support their relationship or what their relationship needs.
(49:09):
I always love.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Talking to people amazing. Again, I'll put all of that
in the description of this podcast. Thank you so much
for being here and having this conversation with me.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Thanks Kelly, It's wonderful chatting with me.
The couples therapist, coach and author Carolyn Sharpe is here.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Carolyn, Hey, Kelly, how are you. I'm doing well. Thank
you so much for being here. You and I were
just talking. You've written this amazing book for couples and
it's called Fired Up, and we're going to get to
all of that. But I loved the sentiment you just
said about why you even wanted to write this book,
because I completely agree with you. So can you repeat
that for the listeners?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Sure? I will try to do my best at repeating
what I said. So you know, part of my hope
and dream for this book is that it helped people
and help the world, because they think that a lot
of what is wrong in the world is a relationship problem.
Our inability to connect with others past our differences, to
find common ground, to really understand each other, I think
(00:59):
is really lacking. So I really hope and dream that
it can be of service to the world.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I mean, we're seeing that on such a big scale,
I think across the board, and everyone can probably understand
where we're coming from with that statement. But I agree
with you that it starts with the small relationships or
the day to day relationships. And that's what this book
is all about. Fired Up is about what to do
when your relationship gets stale. And I can't tell you.
(01:28):
I'm in my forties, so I can't tell you the
amount of conversation that I have with friends who have
been in long term relationships. I think I'm kind of
at that age where people are going, whoam I've been
in this relationship for a really long time. I love
this person, I have a family with this person, but
it is stale. So can you talk through why does
(01:51):
a relationship get stale?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
A relationship gets stale because we take our relationships for granted.
We think, and you know, this is maybe the fault
of Hollywood movies and fairy tales that once you meet
your prince or princess charming, things are good. You don't
need to work at it, and if it's meant to be,
it should be easy, and all of these sorts of ideas.
(02:15):
And so we get married or we make a commitment
to someone and then we sort of check that off
of the lists, like, all right, that area of my
life it's taken care of. I can focus on my career,
I can focus on my family, whatever it is, and
we just let our relationship go on autopilot, and relationships,
like anything else that matters to us, takes work, you know.
(02:38):
The thing worth doing is something we have to put
work into. And people are less intentional with their relationships
than they are with other areas of their life, and
so that's why it grows stale. We sort of take
our eye off the ball, to use a sports metaphor,
which I'm the least sporty person in terms of you know,
professional sports. But we take our off the ball and
(03:00):
focus on other things, and then a relationship goes to sleep.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Right you say in the book, you know life is
full of constant stress, and it is so we're being
pulled in a million different directions all the time, especially
nowadays you can just even get on your phone and
be pulled into a million different directions. And it's so
interesting to me though, because it's we complain about it
being stale, but it's almost as if the place that
we feel the safest, like you said, is the place
(03:26):
that we kind of disregard the most. Why does our
brain do that?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Well? I think it is an aspect of creating that
safety and knowing, okay, I've got my partner here, They're
gonna be here no matter what. We make that promise,
And so we take that promise at face value, like
it's it's good here, and so I can focus my
energy on other things. And and I say this to
(03:52):
my couples who have kids. You know, the kids rage
against us because they feel safe here. We've created a
capaner or they can rage against us. So it is
a beautiful thing in a way that our partner knows
that they can count on us to always be there.
But we need to not use that, you know, just
like we teach our kids. You know, just because I'm
(04:14):
safe doesn't mean you get to talk to me like that.
Just because our relationship is we have set the intention,
we have made the commitment to be together for the
rest of our lives, doesn't mean we can just you know,
take it for granted. Take it. I was about to
use another metaphor, take the hands off the wheel and
let it drive itself. I'm just going to use seven
different metaphors, all of it. I metaphor doesn't mean we
(04:38):
should stop paying attention to it. But you know, the
other reason I think that we do that is relationships
are hard. I think that they're the hardest thing we
do as adults. And you know, we're living as mirrors
of each other. We're seeing each other and living with
each other and seeing each other's flaws and having our
flaws reflected back to us. And that's uncomfortable, in particular
(05:00):
in the pandemic when we were in lockdown for as
long as we were couples. We're spending way too much
time together and we're avoiding all the hard conversations. And
I think that really became a habit where we're not
going to talk about the fact that you're on my nerves.
We're just going to turn to our phones and look
at TikTok for the time being. Whatever it becomes, we'll see,
(05:24):
we'll see. And it just became easier. It became a
new habit of avoiding having the real conversations that we
need to take care of our relationship.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
God, there's so many things in that statement than the
last paragraph that you just said that I want to
touch on. But you'd said one thing about our partners
on our nerves. Is there something more to understanding why
your partner is on your nerves?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, there's always more to understand, always, always, And the
more we understand in our relationship, the deeper and richer
they are. So you know that habit that is annoying.
This is a fun problems that I go through with couples,
a little bit of a game that I play of
understanding why does it drive my partner crazy that I
(06:07):
hang the toilet paper one way and they hang it
the other way? What is that really about? And that's
such a silly example.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
No, it's the perfect example because my boyfriend and I
have been in this exact archident. That's why I laughing
this second you said it. It is literally the thing
that we have been talking about the most. It's a
kind of a joke between us. But those are the
kind of things that come up, right, the main absolutelynny things.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yes, absolutely, And it's you know, when I do presentations
out in the community, I will get volunteers, whether it's
an actual couple or two strangers or two colleagues, will
come up with something stupid like that, so or something
small like that and have them act that out, and
(06:52):
always the richness of what's underneath that of because there's
two levels of communication, there's content and process, and content
is don't hang it this way, hang it that way.
That's the facts or the data of the situation process
is the deeper level of meaning, what it means to
you when I hang it the way I do, or
what you know, so on and so forth, And getting
(07:14):
to that meaning provides so much richness to the relationship.
To understand that when I hang it the way you
don't like it tells it means to you that I'm
not listening to you, that I don't value you, that
what's important to you isn't important to me. What you're
making that meaning out of me hanging the toilet paper
in the way I am, Well, yeah, because otherwise, if
(07:35):
it didn't mean something to you, you wouldn't get annoyed,
you wouldn't get upset. And so helping couples focus their
energy to why does this matter in the first place
is like a mind blowing experience for them. And this
can happen in our romantic relationships, it can happen in
our friendships with our siblings, whoever. And that's what I'm
(07:56):
you know, that's the way I'm trying to help people
in the world is to understand it, understand that person
that you have these great differences with that make you
so mad. If you could understand what it means to
that person, maybe you would help you connect with them.
You don't have to be best friends, you don't have
to agree, but you can connect in a way where
(08:16):
now you can be polite, you can be kind, you
could be compassionate to this person that has these differences.
But that is so hard right now, and I think
we're all losing as a result. Yeah, I did go
off on a tangenty No, that's.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I think that's all very, very important, And I was
just thinking as you were talking. I always say that
relationships are my greatest teachers, and I think that's true
for most of us if we're actually paying attention. But
the reason I say that they're they're my greatest teachers
is not because of necessarily what I learn about the
other person, but it's what I learned about me. And
(08:54):
I think that it's so important and it's a huge
piece that we miss and I think this is what
the book really touches on such a great way. But
whatever is coming up, like if I am bothered, it's
about me. That was the biggest statement I've had to
learn over the years. That's going Wait, if the toilet
paper roll is annoying me so much. Why the whys
(09:15):
behind it are so important? And that's what this book
really really touches on, and I think that is the
most helpful tool in a relationship ever. So you give
this whole four step process into really diving into the whys.
So I kind of want to talk through a little
bit of that without giving the book away fully for
the listeners though, to understand, let's get into this first step,
(09:40):
and a lot of it is understanding you, So can
you talk through a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, the first step in this is that foundational piece
of understanding the why of being in the relationship in
the first place. What is the purpose of us being together,
of us being friends or us being partners? Why? And
couples default too, it's love. You know, we're together for love,
and that's fantastic and that's beautiful. But anyone that's been
(10:08):
in a relationship that's lasted more than even a few
months knows that that love feeling, that love sentiment isn't constant.
If you live with another person, you especially have insight
into this that you love your partner, but you can
also hate your partner at the same time. So you
need a purpose beyond love to get you through those
(10:30):
hard moments when you want to run out the door
or throttle them or whatever. Not talking literally obviously, but
you know, through those moments you need to have that purpose,
that understanding of why are we together? What is what
are we doing here together? That is beyond just being
in love with each other. So that's the first part
that they think is so critical.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, so the foundation of the why of the whole
relationship in general on you's had some such an important
thing about those those butterfly feelings or whatever. Like we all,
if you've been in any sort of long term relationship,
you know that those are the things that die off,
which then in turn makes the relationship feel stale. So
if we're realizing that that is where we are, and
(11:14):
we're getting to the place of like we're really stale,
the foundation feels rocky, is it actually rocky or do
we how do we know that? Like, how do we
know if the relationship is not serving us anymore or
that it's just stale.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
The thing that I tell couples, any problem, any rockiness,
can be fixed in a relationship as long as it's
not abuse, as long as both people want it. So
if it's rocky, you can make it not rocky again.
If you both choose to, it stops serving you. If
either one or both of you have you decided I
(11:50):
don't want this anymore, that's the place where I can't
help anybody, and couples can't really be helped. If you've
decided to leave the relationship, you know, physically or psychically mentally,
then the relationship is over. It's really a decision that
you make where depth and growth comes from recommitting, choosing
(12:12):
again to reinvest in the relationship and decide to figure
out why are we having this rockiness, why are we
having this problem, why is this challenge here? And certainly again,
if there is abuse happening in the relationship, physical emotional,
then the relationship obviously needs to end. But beyond that
(12:32):
kind of mistreatment, real intentional mistreatment, anything can be fixed
as long as both people are invested in getting to
the other side and doing the work to get there.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
When you're doing therapy, I know you've done couples therapy
for years and coaching, how often are you seeing people
just come in and want to fight each other versus
actually get to the why.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I don't think I see people that want to fight
person that that is their intention of I'm gonna I
just want to fight with you. If they are seemingly
wanting to fight, it's because they're scared where they don't
feel safe. And I'm differentiating between that in the sense
that I don't feel safe to be myself, and so
(13:16):
I need to keep this armor up. I need to
keep focusing on what you're saying or how you're saying it.
I need to keep being loud or aggressive. And I
just mean in terms of tone or energy, not physical.
It's because I don't feel safe or because I'm scared.
If I let that guard down, I'm gonna be lost,
(13:38):
I'm going to be left, I'm going to be vulnerable,
or all that sort of stuff, which is a similar
vibe or a similar tone to not feeling safe, but
a little bit a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So this is where the next step would come in
of understanding all of these needs and all of these
things that are coming up within us. And I want
to talk a little bit about that because I feel
like you can go on your own journey of self exploration,
but until you get into a relationship, I'm not sure
(14:10):
you can go as deep like you can only get
so far by yourself. I guess it's my point. And
then you get into a relationship and like you mentioned earlier,
everything is mirrored back to us, whether that's the good
parts of us or the things that were coming up
feeling really defensive about like you just mentioned, where we
might not be feeling safe, and so we go into
(14:30):
attack or defend mode. So how important is it to
understand your own shit, your own background, your own like
childhood wounding and all of those pieces.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Well, I think it's critically important. I think together in
a relationship, you want to create understanding for both of you.
Usually the sort of safest way in is to have
partners focus on understanding their partner and then their partner
understands them, and by that you create a create an
environment of deep understanding and acceptance. That's what you're trying
(15:03):
to get to is accepting each other as people, not
accepting every annoying behavior or every difficult behavior, but accepting
the person underneath that and accepting that you know, really
every behavior has a cause, has that why of you know,
you're hanging the toilet paper for this reason, or you're
yelling for this other reason, or you're walking out of
(15:24):
the room for this third reason, and understanding that why
helps your partner know, Okay, I see what you're trying
to do, and let's together figure out a different way
to get that need met. So I think it's critically important,
and I think you spoke to it so beautifully. You know.
I've had people who've left a relationship and then they
(15:44):
come in to me as a therapist and they say,
I'm going to be single for a while because I
want to learn how to be in relationship, and I
chuckle lovingly, because you can't learn how to be in
a relationship by yourself. We learn relationships through relationships. That's
how it's done. That's how we started as infants, learning
(16:04):
about relationships from the relationships we had with our caregivers
and between our caregivers and in our family in general.
So through this relationship we learn the most about each other.
It is through those reflections and through those deep conversations
that we really learn about our shit. And it's through
creating that safety with each other to understand, Okay, this
(16:25):
is hard, this is messy, this makes me uncomfortable, but
we're committed to really creating a deep rich conversation, a
deep rich environment, and it's in that that you have
the most vibrant relationship when you have that understanding and
that acceptance.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
This whole podcast is basically me talking through different two
different facilitators, different therapists, a sort of person doing any
sort of soul seeking. And the reason I even got
on that journey is because my relationships weren't working. And
so when I'm having conversations sometimes outside of this podcast,
(17:12):
with friends, just people I meet, whatever, and there isn't
this understanding of that connection where it's like, if I
don't learn about me and learn how to communicate about me,
it will manifest in my relationships. And for me, it
was about the relationships I was choosing. It was how
I was interacting in them. Can you explain that to
(17:34):
listeners in a way or is digestible because sometimes I'm
not sure I'm communicating it properly.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Sure? Well, you know what you're speaking to is really
about attachment theory, and it's about an attachment theory to
be really simplistic, it's how we are trained to be
a relationship. We attached to our caregivers, to our parents.
We are dependent on them and Through that relationship, we
learn about the world and what's safe to do, what's
not safe to do, how we're supposed to feel, how
(18:01):
we're supposed to express or not express our feelings. We
are trained and given a style of relating based on
what we are taught is the right way to be,
the wrong way to be, the safe way to be,
the unsafe way to be. And then when we are adults,
we create new attachments somewhat with our friends, although those
are really sort of different because there isn't as much
(18:22):
writing on them as our our partnerships, our romantic partnerships.
And so in that choosing we are looking for and
then there's some research here that is super fascinating. When
we are sort of hooking up quote unquote, our brain
is looking for genetic difference because hooking up is about
(18:44):
spreading genetic seeds, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
So exciting to us.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That's why it's so exciting, because we are you know,
we've got all the passion, we've got all that stuff.
Because as a species, we're looking to spread, diversify the
genetic makeup of the species, because a healthy species is
a diverse species, because you know, cousins having sex with cousins.
You're going to have someone that's going to have some
(19:10):
pretty significant genetic challenges because there isn't enough to diversity
in that species. Well, you know, we're not supposed to
hook up with our brothers. Gross sorry, Adie, that's my
brother's name anyway. And so when we're hooking up, we're
looking for genetic difference. But then flip to six to
(19:33):
eighteen months later, which is when we make the switch
to pair bonding or mating for life, our brain switches
to look for genetic stimilarity, what feels and looks like
what we are used to. So then we're looking for
what we came to understand was normal in relationship. So
(19:54):
you would look for the dynamics. And this is where
the expression I married my mother or I married my
father's sort of thing comes from. Although it's not that
linear a connection. It's more about the dynamic you experienced
growing up. So if you grew up in a family
where performance was the norm, like you had to perform
and be the best in order to get acknowledgment, that's
(20:16):
what you would choose. In a dynamic in your relationship
or a high conflict environment where everybody you know, like
I grew up in New York State and sarcasm and direct,
blunt directness was the thing. And then I married someone
from southern California, where directness not the thing, and we
had to navigate that because my directness was a little
(20:38):
much for him. So on and so forth. But we
reenact the dynamic that we experience in childhood of you know,
my husband feeling criticized or like he had to perform,
and me feeling like I had to take care of myself.
You know, all of these things become re enacted, and
so that's why people choose you feel like they're you know,
(21:02):
they choose badly. You don't choose badly. You choose a
dynamic that is familiar and through in each relationship, getting
healthier working through with that partner. Alright, I think I'm
re enacting something helped me not do that anymore. You
evolve past that such that you're no longer looking for that.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
I love that explanation because I used to say my
picker is broken, and I quickly have realized that doesn't
help me at all to say it that way, And actually,
my picker is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing.
For me to heal. So it's it's literally picking the
person that's going to trigger me the most so that
(21:42):
I finally address what is still unhealed within me yep,
which was like mind blowing to realize, even though it
seems really simple. I thought, oh oh, And the more
I talk to myself in the way of like my
picker is broken, the worse it gets for me because
it's only making a shot at my self esteem and
making me feel like I'm so messed up beyond repair
(22:05):
that I shouldn't even be in relationships, Like your patients
said or your clients said, yeah, like I'm going to
go out and fix myself or something like we're something
to be fixed. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Right, And that to that question earlier of you know,
is there a point that the rockiness indicates that we
should move on? Yeah, we will regulate. Tell couples you
picked each other for a reason, right, because there's opportunity
for heal to heal. If you choose to leave this relationship,
chances are you're going to have this exact same dynamic
(22:36):
in your next relationship. And that's that's what happens over
and over and over again. Of like, oh, few, I'm
out of that relationship, I don't have to deal with addiction,
or I don't have to deal with yelling anymore, or
a high conflict, and then it shows up in the
next relationship. It looks a little different, but it's usually
the same experience in relationship of not feeling safe, not
(22:57):
feeling good enough, not feeling lovable, not feeling wanted, whatever
it is that you felt in that previous relationship. Unless
you figured out how to not do that anymore, chances
are it's going to come alive again for next relationship.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Right And for me, it was always actually a worse
like or bigger. The magnitude of how it was showing
up was bigger because it was trying to get my attention,
Like yes, the things inside of me were like, Okay,
we gotta really work this stuff out. It's time. And
so then I would pick someone else who, like you said,
looked very All of my partners have looked so different
(23:35):
on the outside. Like if you looked at my partners
from a physical perspective, you would say, she doesn't have
a type, but I have a type, or I had
a type, you know. And so until I was ready
to do the bigger healing, it was going to keep
showing up. I do think it's important. I know you
touched on this earlier. For me, I'm in a relationship
(23:57):
now with a partner who wants to do the work
himself and with me, and so it's been a beautiful experience.
I think we met each other at a time in
both of our lives where we were like, okay, jigs up,
like this is happening. We've done enough of our own
healing to know that there is this about me that
is ready to be worked out and so we can
work together. But then I've been in relationships in the
(24:19):
past where it was never going to be that because
the other person wasn't in that space. So it is
very important. I just want to say that for the listeners,
like and you can't force someone to be ready unless
they they want to themselves. I spent many years trying.
I'm just trying to save you guys, the time that
I wasted. It felt like, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
There's only one person we can change, and that's ourselves.
And the amount of time couples waste trying to get
their partner to function more like themselves or force them
to do the work. You can't do that. Mel Robbins
talks about this beautifully, you know, in the sort of
let them her new book, Let Them, you know, let
your partner be your part partner. It's critically important. That's
(25:02):
that acceptance piece. We can inspire our partner toward growth.
We can't force or arm wrestle them into it. It
is about recognizing okay, And usually this is true. I
haven't made it safe for my partner to want to
do the work with me because I'm implying, because usually
it's a you would really benefit from therapy, which translates
(25:25):
to the partner as my partner thinks I'm broken, My
partner thinks I'm a problem, and then they get defensive,
and then they don't feel invited and they don't feel accepted.
They feel shamed, and who feels shamed and then wants
to go open that up versus an invitation of I
really want to have a richer relationship with you. I
(25:45):
really feel like I could learn a lot through you.
Let's take on this journey together. That sounds different from
we need therapy and you have to do this with me,
or you need this program, or you need to read
this book. I don't recommend that for anybody.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I've done all of those.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, so earlier. Yeah, no, it never does, no, never is.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
The second piece of that one for me was always
when people show you who you are, believe them, because
I would be like, yeah, I don't really know, like
you know, I think maybe if we just have one
conversation that hits right, this person won't feel that way
or they'll change or whatever. And I was trying to
actually change who the person was. And that's no, it's
really again that was about me and my own stuff.
(26:40):
When you get into the next step, one of the
main pieces that I just genuinely think is so massively
important repair, so conflict and repair and relationships. So we're
getting so in the book, like if we're walking through
the steps a little bit, you decide what you know,
the foundation of the relationship comes up, why are we
in this? Then you really get to know your own stuff,
(27:01):
how that's impacting your relationship. Then you get to this
piece that's like, okay, well how do we work together?
And I don't think this has talked about enough in
our society, the importance of repair. The more I've learned
about it, the more I've experienced it, the more I'm like,
this is the most crucial piece to all of my
relationships ever, Like it is literally it, it's the thing.
(27:25):
So what does repair look like? Because I just genuinely
don't think anyone even knows conflict and to repair.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yep. Well, And the piece that I think is so
crucial to mention is we don't learn from everything going well.
We don't learn from comfort and things being perfect. We
learned from mistakes and failures. And mistakes and failures are
not what harm relationships. I mean, certainly, of course, there
(27:54):
are certain mistakes that are unequivocally harmful, but it is
not really the mistakes that harm a relationship. It's the
absence of repair. Because repair says to you, you're more
important to me than being right, You're more important to
me than being infallible. I want you to feel safe,
and so I'm going to take accountability and I'm going
(28:14):
to make sure you're oh okay as a result of
me doing that dumb thing, which we're all human. We
all do dumb shit every day. You know, we're bumbling
around through life and we're you know, stepping on each
other's toes all over the place when we share life together.
So it's not the mistakes that matter, it's the repair.
And repair is about and you know, I go through
(28:35):
and it's my editor's favorite part, the non repairs, the
non apologies that exist for us. But repair is about
taking accountability. Well, first, it's about understanding the impact the
harm had on the part on my partner. So for
me to hear I see that you're hurt, I want
to understand your experience of this hurt and taking the
(28:57):
time to really understand what is it about my action
that caused harm to you? Because we can rush through.
It's one of the things that happens is we rushed
through it because it's very vulnerable to make a repair,
well rush through it thinking all right, well it was
that I raised my voice at you. I'm sorry I
yelled at you, and before I take the time to
(29:18):
really understand, oh no, it wasn't. It wasn't you raising
your voice. It was you saying X to me that
really made me feel bad about myself. Oh I didn't.
I wouldn't have known that. So the first thing is
in really understanding what is it that I did that
was most impactful to you. Then it's taking accountability of
owning I did that, and couples get stuck here because
(29:43):
they will debate that content piece and is that what
I actually said, or is that what I meant? Or
it did I was I really late toward you know,
all that sort of stuff, and it's a waste of
time to debate that first piece of understanding. What is
it that hurts you? Will help you know how to
take accountability. I'm sorry I said that, or if if
(30:05):
you've really if your brain is really stuck on me,
that's not what I said or that's not how I
said it, Then just apologize for hurting the partner. Sorry
I hurt you, So take take accountability, and then check
in and make sure that does your partner feel better?
You've seen it. And the sort of metric I use
is your partner look better, same or worse? And if
(30:26):
it's better or same, all right, you're in the in
the right neighborhood. If if worse, all right, you got
to you got to take another swing at it to
make sure that your partner feels better. And so that's
that's the very quick and dirty sort of explanation of
what a repair takes. But the important piece to make
sure to mention is that a successful repair takes two people. Yes,
(30:48):
it takes both the person who's injured, who's made the mistake,
and it takes the receiver of the repair for it
to go well. Because there is a tendency and I
have seen this increase in the last four years, four
to six years to rub people's faces in the mistakes,
rub their face, the difference to say, yeah, you did
(31:09):
hurt me, You're a total jerky. Why did you do that?
You labbaye blah, you know, and that creates no safety. Yeah,
repair is the most powerful thing we can do in
relationship for all the reasons I mentioned before that it
creates safety, it creates healing. Because many of us did
(31:30):
not ever receive repair from our parents, because you know,
lots of generations before us were taught you know, children
are to be seen and not heard, and you know,
all that sort of stuff. So we didn't experience repair.
We didn't witness repair because lots of people, if they made,
lots of couples, if they make mistakes, don't do it
in front of their children. Then don't repair in front
(31:52):
of their children. So kids haven't seen it, so they
don't know what it feels like, and so it's incredibly
healing to receive a repair, and it also creates safety
to be imperfect in the relationship, which is what we
all need because nobody's perfect. We grow through mistakes. So
you want it to be safe in your relationship to
fuck up, excuse my language. And so you need your
(32:15):
partner to be safe to receive a repair. And so
the only appropriate response, the only appropriate response to a
genuine attempt at repair your partner genuinely means to make
it better. The only appropriate response is thank you. That's it,
not you're forgiven, because I don't want anybody forgiving anybody
(32:37):
before they actually feel healed. But you want to first
acknowledge the effort being made on your behalf, and it's
vulnerable to acknowledge. I screwed up and I hurt you
and I'm sorry. You want to make it safe for
your partner to do it because it's so important for
the two of you to be able to practice this.
You have to make it safe by saying thank you
for trying to heal this, yeah, Paul, and then talk
(33:01):
about it. The more of like, I still don't I'm
still hurt, I'm still upset. Can we talk about It's
more yes, but wait, first, applaud your partner for the
attempt well.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And that creates the safety right when you can see
that your partner is sitting there willing to hear you out.
I think a huge thing for all of us is
just we just want to be heard on most occasions.
And then the conflict probably came up because of two people,
something within what we've already touched on, like something from
the past, two different perspectives, seeing the world through two
(33:36):
completely different lenses. Like with two people, you're going to
have conflict. I don't think we talk about that enough either.
It's like two people are never going to see the
world exactly the same, They're never going to have exactly
the same needs you have to learn each other. But
these kind of situations where you're having a conflict doesn't
have to mean World War three. It's actually a time
(33:58):
to take their relationship even deeper and to do healing
from whatever this is you know, immediately coming from. And
I'm so glad that you brought up that it's gotten
worse in the last four to six years, because I
think that's what we're seeing on a macro level. It's
like we can't get over we can't come together on
anything politically, on anything whatever, because the second one person
(34:20):
says huh, or it's proven that maybe something wasn't the
full truth, the other side of whatever is just wanting
to rub everyone's face in it. Nobody's just going, hey,
let's just talk about this, like, let's figure out where
we went wrong or why this came up, or why
you thought this and I thought that. It's like literally,
(34:40):
ha ha ha told you so, over and over in
a cycle and a loop. And so we're never going
to get out of it if we don't stop doing that.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Mm hmmm. I won. I won. I want, I want
exactly and I will. I will use any ammunition. I
will use any information, whether it's valid or not information.
I will gather whatever data data quote un quote to
prove my point and to win over you. And it
is the saddest thing versus being curious and interested in
(35:09):
what other what people who are different than us think,
believe why they think, and believe that what that might
be coming from. There's so much power and benefit and
in doing that, and yet and you know it isn't
happening at home. You know, this is what I'm saying
with couples that they're not curious, they're not being interested
(35:31):
in what is causing this conflict. And the you know,
the the other truth that I would I would repeat
over and over again until I'm blue in the face.
Is every dynamic, Almost every dynamic, nearly every single one,
takes two people to exist. So any problem that exists
in a relationship, there are two people participating in that.
(35:54):
Certainly there are some exclusions, but almost all. And and
you know, when mistakes up, if you really pay attention
and are curious and interested, you can trace it back.
I'll have so many couples come in and go and
this came out of nowhere, all right. That fight that
you're saying just blew up out of nowhere actually started
like four days before when you didn't kiss your partner goodbye,
(36:16):
and then when you were on your phone when they
asked you a question. This adds up over time, and
so then yelling at you out of nowhere and calling
you a name or or using a tone isn't out
of nowhere. And if you trace it back, you can
find your part in the process as well. And that's
where the real growing and the deepening and the intimacy comes.
(36:39):
Is really looking at how could we make this better,
How could we make this healthier? How could we prevent
that fight from ever happening again? You can everybody? Can
you know?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I think you touched on something so brilliant at the
beginning of this that we think we can just get married.
We can build this life, this little fantasy, fairy time whatever,
white picket fence, that is what we have been taught
is the goal. And then it stops, or growing stops,
and my understanding of life has completely changed. And so
(37:11):
I wonder what you feel about this. But like, I
don't think we ever stop growing our learning, or if
we do, that is to a detriment of our life,
our relationships, everything, Like, the more you can stay open
to this is a constant, growing, evolving situation, then the
more your life will benefit. Do you feel that way.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
One hundred percent? I mean, it's it's science, it's everything
that you know. If you were a gym goer, you
don't stop going to the gym once you reach bench
pressing whatever two hundred pounds, You're not going to be
able to maintain that strength unless you work at it.
If you're a gardener, you know you plant a garden.
If you don't weed that garden, if you don't water
(37:54):
that garden, if you don't fertilize that garden, it will
stop producing, right And you know, after one season, you
have to we have to continually practice our skills to
keep growing. And as humans, we're continually changing every day
something different, whether it's you know, like I'm on the
I'm on the I'm on the slow downhill and you know,
(38:16):
in my fifties, so I'm you know, slowing down as
you know, working to keep up on the peloton so
that I don't slow down too fast. But you know,
everything is changing in my body, everything is changing, my
husband's body. We have to react to the changes that
go and the societal changes that are happening. My field
has changed as a result of you know, now mental
(38:39):
health care is largely online. You know, the majority of
therapies happening online now still happens in person. But it's
you know, that has evolved as we grow and learn
more about the human brain, that evolves, podcasts, you know,
social media. Everything is changing around of politics. You know,
(39:00):
oh good golly, all the things they're changing as a
result of the political climate in the US and beyond,
and so that impacts our relationship and impacts us individually
and impacts our relationship, and if we're not adapting to that,
our relationship goes to sleep.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah. Well, the fourth step gets to what I think
everyone would probably get into couple's therapy thinking was the
whole reason they were there. Yeah, and that's intimacy, sex,
the passion, And that is what my friends are coming
to me saying, like, oh, we haven't had sex and
however long, or the passion's dead, and our I think
(39:36):
quick response to that is maybe I need to get
a divorce, or maybe this relationship's over and people quit.
And actually, all of the little steps that we've talked
about up until now get to probably the deepest version
of that that you could ever desire. But it doesn't
look easy or pretty or any of that stuff. So
(39:57):
let's get into that a little bit. Are you seeing
people just want to skip the step and go, why
can't I have the sex I was having at the
beginning of this relationship? Like that died so like it
must be over right?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yep, yep, Yes, they absolutely want to skip the step,
and I drive everybody crazy by making them do the steps. Right,
you know, I'm always careful to acknowledge. Just because I'm
making you do the work doesn't mean you can't be
curious about, be interested in, and be introducing play and
fun and mystery into your relationship even if it's not
(40:30):
sexual way and fun, and in doing so, you may
wake that part of your relationship up. The best sex,
the best romance, the best intimacy is going to come
as a result of doing all of these things. And ps,
it's also those same components that help you have the
(40:50):
really rich, fun, amazing, mind blowing sex. You know, if
you feel accepted and understood sexually, if you are understood
about you, what you like, what feels good, what turns
you on, all of that sort of stuff, sex gets better.
And so many couples skip that step communication. Knowing how
(41:13):
to talk about that and and some of our puritanical
roots way back when to the country's beginning really monkey
with our ability to understand and our ability to make
safe acceptance for who we are sexually to one another.
That you know, your two consenting adults, really anything goes,
But how do we talk about it when we've been
(41:34):
trained that sex is only for making babies or you
shouldn't do X, Y or Z or that's dirty or
that's wrong or whatever. It really monkeys with our capacity
to understand ourselves sexually and understand each other, and so
really creating the safety and a bubble for the for
the two of you for your relationship really enhances that
(41:57):
where you can have way more fun than you've ever
been having. And also just accepting that things change over time.
You know, what, you do the same thing enough times,
it's no longer really all that fun or interest.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
So it gets boring, gets boring.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
And yet couples don't know how to acknowledge that or
talk about that, or make it safe to experiment or
try new things. And you know, in a fifty year
committed relationship, you run out of things to try if
you're not talking about.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
It, right, Isn't it the same step though in a way,
because with sex, it's like, if you don't understand your
own programming about sex or your own blocks, your own
things that came with you from the past, how could
you have conflict and repair about sex with your partner?
(42:49):
How could you like, we can't do any of it
without the other. I guess that's my point, yep, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
You have to understand yourself and you have to understand
your partner, and you have to create safety to be
fully yourself in the relationship. So you know, I mean
it's a uh. You know, with each new exercise you
do from fired up, with each new understanding you gain
your sex, the sex is going to get better. So
(43:17):
you don't have to wait to start playing in that area.
But the more you do from the earlier sections that
the better it's going to get in the later sections.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So, I mean the book is meant to be read sequentially,
but I'm imagining that many people are going to go
to the lamp dreft or read that first. Of course,
of course, you know that's that's human nature, right, we
want we want dessert.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
First, exactly. I want to skip the steps because the
steps are not that fun at the beginning of it.
I think that the more you do it, the more
benefit you see, and the more for me at least,
the more comfort in them I find. And so I
actually want to go to the steps first now because
I know the benefit that will come from it, you know,
(44:03):
as see the reward. I guess it's interesting though, because
I've had many sexual experts on this podcast, all of
them say sex gets better with age. We're missing it,
like it actually is better the more you're doing this
kind of stuff versus this like fairy I keep saying
fairy tale. It's not even that it's this fantasy that
we make up about that passionate beginning, because really, if
(44:26):
you get to the depth of sex with your partner,
with all of these pieces that we've talked about, it's
better than that rando crazy vacation sex you had with
you know, Pallo or whatever. I'm making up. But I
do think that's what people go to. And these are
the conversations I'm having with my friends where it's like, oh,
(44:47):
I just want to weakend tryst with blah blah blah,
and it's like, yeah, it's really not as satisfying as
I think people are making up in their heads.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Right, of course not. And there is something about a
stranger that allows us to be totally uninhibited. Is safety
in not knowing the person you're having sex with because
they don't see your you know whatever, crusty toothbrush on
the sink. They don't see you have to do your laundry,
(45:17):
all that sort of stuff. And estra Perel is wise
and wonderful and talking about a lot of this, and
so there is something in that fantasy of not being known.
But what we're really actually creating is being able to
be completely free and the richest sex is possible when
you have created safety with your partner to be your
(45:37):
messy self and have your partner be totally turned on
even though they do your laundry, even though they negotiate
the bills. It's about recognizing the challenges and creating those
workarounds that, Yeah, the sharing of life together is inherently
un sexy. There's nothing sexy about navigating bills or houseware,
(45:59):
cleaning toilets together. And we can still, you know, be sexy,
you know, be mysterious. We just have to work at it.
And that's the part that no one wants to do.
And the sort of cliche that I use is you
can either invest your time preventing problems or you can
(46:21):
invest time cleaning up the problems, and so you're spending
the time on your relationship. I'm just trying to have
people invest it wisely and with benefit. And I don't
do boring and I don't like I'm not here to
make people miserable. I'm here to have fun into play,
and so with the right spirit, any of this work
(46:42):
in the book is meant to be fun. It's meant
to be an exploration that can be silly and playful
and lighthearted, even as we're talking about painful stuff.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yes, I love that the whole point about you can
either do it now or later, And I think that's
one of the things we miss and relate to. Like
you said, the gem analogy is always a good one
to me. It's like, if you want to be in shape,
you have to go work out, and it's the same
with our relationships, with our inner work. It's all the same.
For some reason, we've just gotten We've been brought up
to believe you don't have to do work around this,
(47:15):
or you can stop doing work like these are continual processes,
just like everything else. You want the results, you have
to do the work.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yep. And people are like, well, you know, I'm going
to take the easy way out. I'm just going to
leave the relationship. It's not worth it to me to
do that work, so I'm going to leave. Leaving a
relationship ain't easy. We're covering from a relationship with getting
over a heartache or loss ain't easy. So there is
no you know, there's no cheating life. There's no really
(47:43):
getting around the work we have to do. We can
either do the work to have a better life, a
richer life, a deeper life, or we can do all
of this work to keep the skeletons in the closet,
you know, like we're like using all our weight to
keep them, keep them behind that door. And I want
everyone to have a richer, more connected life to themselves
(48:04):
and to others. Well.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
And it's like you said earlier, you can leave that
relationship unless it's abusive. There is always that stipulation, but
you can leave that relationship. And I used to have
a mentor say, well, wherever you go there you will
be exactly I'm going to find myself again in the
same probably exact patterns may be worse unless I do
this healing within myself. So anyway, I'm a huge fan
(48:27):
of the book. I love the message you're putting out there.
The other benefit, you guys, is she has all these
exercises in the back of the book, so it's like
it's just the guide to figuring it all out. It's wonderful.
It is out now. Like I said, I'll put the
link to this book in the description of this podcast.
But Carolyn, where else can people find you? If they
want to keep up with your work?
Speaker 2 (48:48):
They can find me at Secure Connections Coaching on Instagram
and Facebook, Secure Connections Coach on TikTok if TikTok is
still alive when this podcast stairs or Carolyn Sharp also
on face book and all of my contact information. If
people have questions or you want to chat about how
I might support their relationship or what their relationship needs.
(49:09):
I always love.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Talking to people amazing. Again, I'll put all of that
in the description of this podcast. Thank you so much
for being here and having this conversation with me.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Thanks Kelly, It's wonderful chatting with me.
Host
Kelly Henderson
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