November 21, 2025 • 34 mins
After Kelly’s conversation with money expert Shannah Game, Chip and Kelly sit down to unpack what it made each of them realize about their own relationship with money — the habits they inherited, the patterns they repeat, and how all of it shows up in dating.
They dive into why we spend the way we do, why we often date people with completely different money experiences, and the deeper “why” underneath our financial behavior. It’s honest, funny, and painfully relatable for anyone trying to understand their own money story.
SHANNAH'S FREE WORKBOOK: https://heyshannah.com/rewrite/
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HOSTS:
Kelly Henderson // @velvetsedge // velvetsedge.com
Chip Dorsch // @chipdorsch
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Well you're still in the office. I see severance, baby,
So what are we going to do about this? I
told you, I just think you need to start living
in this office as your background.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I mean, it doesn't matter what I change it to.
The like weird effects of my microphone disappearing is going
to do it.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
So if anyone has any experience in this, please email
us at the Edge at Velvetsige dot com. Chip is
so sad to be stuck in this office on his headide.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I cannot get the virtual background off, and I know
everyone's going to send me the obvious simple instructions and
what I can tell you, I've done a deep dive.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
They don't work.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
None of it works.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And I restarted my computer thinking that would do it,
and it didn't work. I deleted Zoom didn't work. So
Merchery is our cury is in retrograde. It actually is
a mercury.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Did you know that for real? It'd be funny because
it actually is. It was very serious retrograde.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
If this, if this shit stops after Mercury's and done
being in retrograde, I'm like full on in on astrology.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, well, Universe, you heard him here first go ahead
and teach him a lesson and let's get this thing
back working after mercury retrograde. Well, you've been traveling, I've
been traveling. We've had so much going on, and so
we're both a little bit like, look at us right now.
If you guys are watching on YouTube, apologies, Yeah, I
got our best look. This is not our best look,
(01:38):
but we are here. And I told you I was like,
I actually really loved the guests on Wednesdays. I don't
want to not do our do justice to our Friday
podcast about this because the topic itself and the way
she's delivering it, we're so helpful to me personally that
I didn't want to miss that. So if you guys
didn't listen yet to the Wednesday podcast, Shana Game, who
(02:00):
is a financial planner, a financial trauma specialist, and the
author of a new book, Unraveling Your Relationship with Money,
was on and I love her approach and it's like
no mistake obviously that we found each other because our astrology,
speaking of astrology, is very aligned and so we have
very similar like wirings. So I think it's like we
(02:21):
think the same way about things. And I said to you,
she is doing money and the Money Talks in a
way I've never heard anyone do it. Like I've had
financial people come on the podcast before. I've worked with
financial people myself, and it always kind of gets like
mumbo jumbo in my brain because they start with like
numbers and budgets and let's analyze this and that, and
(02:44):
it's so overwhelming. It's probably how you feel with astrology.
I'm like, wah wah wah wah. Right, yeah, my brain
just does not work that way. So what was interesting
to me about Shauna is she came on and she
was like, you got to unpack your like feelings, your
emotion and your trauma around money before you get to
budgets or how you spend or any sort of number
conversation or why yeah yeah, And I'm like, why haven't
(03:07):
I thought of that?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Because we do that, she said.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
She said, money is emotions, not numbers.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yes, money, because money is energy and people always say
that to me, but I've never really been able to
connect the dots on that. It just kind of like,
was this dumb, like duh moment to me because we
do that with every other topic on this podcast, like
we analyze the whys behind sex and the way we
move with that, the whyse behind relationships and why we
(03:36):
get in that. I mean the week before we were
talking about kids and fertility and you know, being on
your own journey and not trying to compare yourself to
other people. But for some reason, I haven't connected the
dots to the whys and the root causes of money
and spending and financial trauma and even put that together
that that was a real thing. So it was really
(03:56):
interesting to me to have her on the podcast. I
like downloaded this worksheet thing that she put in. I
put in the description of the podcast for you guys,
it's a free worksheet, And I'm doing it for myself
because I really want to like get to someone. I
want to be conscious with what I'm doing with my
money and how I'm moving with money and then how
I make money and say for the future and things
(04:18):
like that. But it hasn't worked for me to just
fully focus on the numbers. I'm really excited to like
dive into the whys behind it.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know, when I started thinking about like my relationship
with money, yeah, I mean the root of it is
how my mother.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Really always talked about it and Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I mean that's at the like the core of it,
and it's you know, I'm now that I'm an adult,
I still see the patterns of how she talks about
people and how they have money and those the haves
and have nots, And she always groups herself in the
like poor people thing, And we were like firmly middle class.
There was very little that we didn't have that we wanted,
but like she definitely grew up with some people that
(04:55):
had a lot more money. But you know, I also
think we now live in such an exp world where
it's about instant gratification and putting on a show. And
I mean she talks about the media of it all,
like we are served things all the time.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Ads spend, spend, spend.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And there is shame that comes along with not being
able to fit in with the crowd. And but I
also think it's so funny, like how many times have
you heard, like you'll meet this person that like literally
drives a raggedy ass car and they're like thrifting clothes
and they leave their room and you're like, you'll never
believe how much money that person you know, like, and
it's like, to me, that's the fucking goal in life
(05:31):
because they like are seemingly happy and the money isn't
driving it, Like they're living their life. And I know,
you know, some of those comforts come with not having
to ever worry about money. So if you have money,
if you were born into money, like, I think there
are different types of trauma, Like you know, you might
be a soul that doesn't want to care about money,
but it's all the family cares about. So you know,
(05:54):
I think that it's a really important distinction to be
to understand that, Like it doesn't matter if you're rich, poor,
or middle class. There is some sort of trauma around
money that affects the way that you see it. And
I don't know what the word for, like good trauma is.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Like what do you mean good trauma? I think trauma
is innately like.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Right, right, Like what is the opposite of trauma?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Like you can have a there are people that actually
have figured it out and have a good relationship with mine.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Well, I think is like using even the trauma that
you've been through and like turning your pain into purpose,
like finding power within it, evolving past it, all of
those things we try to do with any other trauma
that we have as well.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, that's kind of the point that I was making.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
But also, like I do think there are people that
like innately just had a healthy relationship with money, like
they didn't care about.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
It or whatever.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So it's like the opposite of being traumatized by it.
It's like the zero fux of it all, which is
obviously a lot easier when you have a safety net
and there is money.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
But I also think that there are plenty of people
that like.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Don't have a lot of money, and they have a
family that they love and a life that they love,
and they're not influenced by the external that makes them
feel like they need more and more and more. They
just are happy with life.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Well that's the point, right, is to evaluate your relationship
with money. So, like, trauma is such a big word,
and I think maybe not everybody, just like you're saying,
maybe not everybody relates to that. However, there are probably
some messages that you got in your childhood that defined
your relationship with money, whatever that looks like, whether that's
that could even be like a secure relationship with money
(07:29):
like you're describing, But it's like everything else, right, she said,
By the time we're seven we've basically formed our opinions
or we've formed the way that we're going to move
with money later in life because of what was happening
to us at that age. And that's the same as
why you pick the people you pick to date, or
why you work as hard as you do or not
(07:52):
as hard as you do. Like there's it's the same
thing as everything else we literally talk about on this podcast.
We just have not discussed it in terms of money
and how we spend and that literally, like Opra calls
on Maha moments, whatever, I felt like my brain was
going to pop off my body. It was that, you know,
however you want to say it. It was like a
(08:12):
moment of like, oh my god, why have I not
thought about this? Because it is true, like what you're
saying about your mom's relationship with money, it impacted the
way you think about money because he taught you that
it's an inherited belief, you know. And so now all
this is asking us to do is go, what do
I actually think about money? And like how am I
(08:34):
spending my money? How am I saving my money? Am
I getting paid enough? Like am I actually being compensated
for the work that I'm doing like all of these
kind of things that I think are driving probably more
than we think about, Like I know they are for me,
and they can be so tied to messages of shame
or unworthiness or things that you and I were talking
(08:55):
about before the podcast. But like, if you don't dive
into it, it's this unconscious driver, Whereas if you just
kind of sit back and ask yourself these questions, you
can be consciously working with it and building the life
you want with the money you want or don't want
or whatever it is, like whatever your journey is, you know, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I mean money.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I'll admit, like I have a very funny relationship with money.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Like, well, so talk let's talk about that. Let's maybe
just some of the things that we took away from
the podcast, because I know it definitely made me think
about a lot about my own self. Well, what were
some of your things?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I can find happiness kind of and in any situation,
whether it's like a boozy's just bougie situation or the
most dive bar like ratchet situation, Like I can find
fun anywhere. So I'm like one of those like interesting
people that it does. Like when I say that money
doesn't matter to me. Like that sounds so flippant, but
it doesn't. Like if I'm with people that I love
(09:54):
and I can laugh, then it's a great moment, you know.
But I also love to travel and I love I
love things, and I you know, my life is not cheap,
and I could I adjust, probably, you know, I could
spend a lot less money. But because I don't care
about money in the same way, I'm not like it
(10:16):
has good and bad impacts, Like I'm terrible at saving
because I've been really fortunate in my life that money
shows up in times when I need it, like in ways.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
That like you can't predict.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
But I also know that I work really hard and
I deserve to be paid well, and.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But I also don't know how to fight for it.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Like money is a very uncomfortable thing for me to
talk about because suddenly, if you ask for more money
that you don't get, like, is it a reflection on
your your like own self worth, like if you just
stand for it. And I'm constantly around people that make
a shit ton of money, and some of them are
(10:54):
really great about saving, some of them aren't aren't. So
it's like I I in my own life.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I see.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I'm able to see the spectrum of it all and
see like what life can be like if you if
you do money right, and what life can.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Be like if you don't.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
But I'm also I've got plenty of people around me
that like money is not like a ruling thing in
their life, Like they have enough of it to like
do what they want to do, but it's not what
drives them at all. And I just for me, it
is definitely not the driver of things. But I fear
not having it there. I just have like a and
(11:29):
I'm my family. I never like, yeah, I have a
scarcity mindset, and my family like we never like there
was never food insecurity. There was never any of those
moments where we were like, all right, we got to
batten down the hatches, like this is gonna be a
rough year. Like I never had a parent that was
like out of work suddenly, Like never never any of
(11:50):
those scares. It was more we don't talk about money.
We don't talk about like we just didn't talk about it.
But my mom talked about it a lot and still does.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
In her mind.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
She's a pulper compared to a lot of her friends,
you know, and she thinks she equates having a lot
of money to having an easier life, which is not true.
I know plenty of people that have lots of money
that are not happy, ug or struggle with a lot
of things in their life. And my mom would be like,
you know, money doesn't buy happiness, and I was like, well,
it can buy some happierness, you know, like you can
(12:22):
buy a little bit of it, but it doesn't make
It's not like the answer to everything, which is a
really tough thing to grapple with because the world that
we live in, yeah, I mean us Right now, we're
having a conversation about money, and I want to be
clear on this, Like my goal is not to tell
anybody to go out there and try and make as
much money as you can, like go get rich. Like
(12:44):
that is not the point of my conversation. The point
of my conversation, because I can only speak for myself,
is that, like I do think that life would be
easier with a healthier relationship to money, and I know
(13:06):
it's something that I need to work on. And listening
to is Shanna what's her name, Sha Shawna listening to Shauna, Like,
I want to like explore some of the like the
workbook stuff that she has, Like these things that seem
to like really open up people's minds, because I've tried
the financial planner thing too, and it just doesn't work
for me. Like it seems overwhelming. It seems like I'm
(13:28):
going to be giving away everything that I'm saving. Like
it I just can't wrap my head around it. But
what I know is that I need to change because
I'm not saving properly. And that can be humiliating because
I have a lot of friends that are really great
at saving, and my mom was actually really great at saving,
but I just didn't get that gene.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
It's such a catch twenty two though, because then it's
also like we're also taught the messages of well, you
can't take it with you. I think, you know, it's
like this weird mixed messages thing that happens in our society,
and like you mentioned, like we live in a capitalist society.
Like it's very much about consumerism and the haves and
the have nots and keeping up with the joneses and
(14:08):
what that means about you and what that means about
your success. And like, I just think that's the really
interesting piece about what Shauna is bringing to the conversation,
is is that really true? Or are we attaching these
mentalities to the way we spend, to the way we
like the things that we buy unconsciously and not actually
asking ourselves is this true for me? Is this what
(14:30):
I want? Does this make me happy? Am I doing
right by myself? Like as far as saving goes, like
you're talking about, and we just don't really ask those things,
you know. I think we ask like numbers questions, and
for people like you and me who are creatives, that
is like wait, what right? I was always bad at math,
Like I had to have a math tutor, and like
I'm a smart person, so it's just like my brain
(14:53):
just does not think that way, you know. So I
found it really interesting. One of the things that came
up for me during the podcast was like she's I
can't remember exactly what she said that made me go here,
but one of the things that I noticed that I
do is she had o because she had mentioned for
women it can be hormonal for us, like our spending,
and I never thought about that, but it makes so
(15:15):
much sense because I'm a creature of comfort for sure,
and like I want to be comfortable and so I'm
doing things usually in my life to you know, make
my house feel cozy, to make sure I'm doing things
that will be the most comfortable for me all in
all ways. Like that's just very important to me. It's
a high priority. And so like during certain times of
(15:37):
the month, you know, like I have lower energy, I
don't feel as good. So it's very easy for me
to want to buy things to fix that thing, you know,
that problem, which is fine, like she talked about that.
She was like, that would be fine if you know
that's a time of the month that you're probably going
to want to order out more or whatever it is.
(16:00):
It's like I can't set the money, Yeah, just start
setting aside the money. And I was like, oh, right,
Like we don't have to shame ourselves for what we
need or what makes us feel good in our lives
or what makes us happy. It's just more about being
conscious about that and honest with ourselves and then if
it is something that we want to keep doing, like
(16:21):
preparing ourselves for it. It's just being more responsible in
that way we were saying before the podcast, like that,
I mean, the creature of comfort thing is so real
for me, so it's certain times of month, and then
it's just like like if I'm sick or whatever. So
I do need to have like a separate fund for
these times where it's like, Okay, you know, when you're
super busy, you're not gonna want to cook, so you'll
(16:43):
probably postmates a lot or whatever. And that shit adds up.
Like when I go to the Quesses every year, I
get so like, oh my god, because I order groceries.
I do that, you know, it was just like that
stuff adds up way faster than I think it does. Yeah,
I'm doing it, yeah, but I don't. I don't want to.
You know. I've tried doing the thing. Like you said,
I could probably cut back on ways this amount of money.
(17:05):
And I have to just be honest with myself. I
am a creature of comfort. I'm always gonna want some
ease in certain times of the month, in certain periods
of my life, in certain phases. So I just need
to prepare for that and be honest and like true
to myself with it, like not try to be somebody
I'm not, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Totally Yeah, And I think sometimes the planning ahead even
will put up the guardrail. So It's like if you've
only put one hundred dollars in your like fun money
tank or whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
To call it, Like you're like, well, I only have
one hundred dollars, so it's.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Like, you know, I'm going to get a pizza that
will last me all weekend, you know. I mean, obviously
that's a different situation for you. But like I think
if you.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Have gluten and dairy umi, right.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
But like or you know, it's you order a big
old thing a chicken.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Little soup and one order versus, right.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
And that can create care of you.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
But if if you know that, like you've got the
reward system in place because you saved one hundred dollars
over here for this, right, then the shame and the
guilt of really willy nilly wasting money is out the
window exactly, and it can still have its limitations.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
So it checks both boxes.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You're still you're saving, you're doing the right thing, but
you're satisfying that like not having.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
To cook, right, Because what my spiral is is like
so say, for instance, like I'll go do my taxes
and then I'm looking at, oh my god, look at
this spending on this and that and that and because
it was these unconscious decisions that I was making in
the time to make myself more comfortable, it comes with shame,
and then it comes with this like beating myself up
(18:41):
of well, you better book another job, or you better
take on another client or whatever. So it's like this
spiral that I'll go in about that I need to
work harder to make more money to then blah blah blah,
you know, like and it's just this vicious hamster wheel
that I can get on, but that you know, that
hamster will leads me to exhaustion and then out, and
then I don't want to work at all. And then
it's like it's just like that doesn't that's probably not
(19:04):
the best solution either. That's just kind of what I've
always done is just go make more, go, do more, go,
you know whatever. And I'm at this age now where
I'm like my body is saying no, no, no, no no,
and so I need to listen. But also looking at
where does that scarcity even come from? Like where did
I develop that I won't have enough? And you know,
(19:27):
going back into childhood stuff for all of us. So
it's like it's like a both and situation it's like
how we're moving now looking at the whys and how
we got some of the we attached to some of
the narratives, and then being true to ourselves about like
what are your patterns and like are they things that
you should be working on? Are they just like part
of who you are? Like I'm never not going to
(19:47):
be a creature of comfort.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
That's just me Like.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Sales, yeah, jigs up.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, jigs up. You know it's funny.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
A bad habit of mine too, is I will think
of things like, you know, based on my salary. I
know what I make per per hour, you know, Okay,
so I'll think like, oh, you know, that's not that bad.
That's only like three hours of work. I'm gonna go
ahead and get it, you know what I mean, Like
rather than asking myself do I really want it?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Do I need it?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
This year, I've actually tried to be a lot better
about just willing illy buying things. But like, you know me,
like a costume idea comes up, I'm gonna order that ship.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Like the fact that the thing that you just brought
up is like the thing that's killing you about your
money is that you know me? If a costume mind comes,
that's the thing, Like.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I want to do it
exactly the way I want to do it and not
be this thing in my closet and do this blah
blah blah. Although I can be pretty like crafty, very crafty,
but I like, don't miss an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
To like, you're not going to miss fun. This is interesting.
I'm like, good God, a man that knows the way
to my heart. He sent me this whole breakdown of
each Enneagram number with money and the motivators behind like
how we spend, and I first of all loved it,
of course duh. But you're a type seven, so like
(21:17):
you love it SI, you're always looking for fun. That's
what I think of with sevens. They look for fun,
and that can make you a bit impulsive too, because
you don't it's like the fomo feeling, you know, like
you don't want to miss out. So that's something for
you to really consenter with money like mine was very
true too. Emotional spender values uniqueness like are you kidding?
(21:38):
Like yeah, home me story about myself, But emotional spender,
that's so true. So that's why certain times of the
month I am going to be like, oh, you deserve
to go shopping or you you know, like if I've
been working really hard, I come home and I'm like,
before even analyzing my money situation, i just want to
buy clothes or do something that's going to make me
feel good because I've been doing stuff for everyone else.
(22:00):
That's okay. Again, I think it's all okay. It's just
about being conscious of our patterns and the wise and
like is this really gonna be the like do you
really want that? Are you just exhausted and you need
to go take a warm bath and like do something
nice for yourself that, you know, like self care kind
of stuff versus like spending. Right, if I am probably
(22:21):
a very emotional spender, Like if I'm really down, I remember,
I'll never forget this story I was going through. That's
when I was canceling my wedding and my mom was
like coming in to like help me. It was the
day that it happened. I like called her and my
mom was like, do you I want to get on
a plane. I was like yes, you know, I'm like
a disaster. And then I was like I don't want
to say it really because I couldn't. I lived with
(22:42):
my partner and I was like, I can't stay at
this house. I had to get the hell out of there,
right And I said, I don't want to stay at
a shitty hotel though, like.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
This's so bad.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Even in my like darkest day, I was like, what
I will not do is like get cheated on, cancel
a wedding and go stay at a shitty and stay at
some shitty hotel. And my mom still brings it up
to this day because it's just that's so good, but
it's so me, Like it literally that sums me up.
So if I know that's me and I can accept
(23:13):
myself for who I am, I need to have a
fund for my emotional space. Yeah, you also brought it
up in terms of relationships with that, which I thought
was really really interesting to think about. And I think
that's probably a whole nother conversation. But what made you
even bring that goal.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
My last boyfriend, he was a couple of years older
than me, and his goal was like, I'm retiring by
fifty five, even if it means I have to have
a job at like Costco or something like something that
gets me out of the house, keeps me human, keeps
me interacting with people make you make a little bit
of money, and that's like your fun spending money, you know.
(23:58):
And he owned his house, said he lived in and
he had another like townhouse in town that he was
a rental property. And I think he had probably just
saved better, like he wasn't he didn't travel, He hadn't
traveled as much as me in life, and all the things,
you know, like that eat into my bank account. And
it's suddenly like I was like, didn't everyone have the
(24:20):
conversation because I don't know, like his finances sound like
everything was like perfectly in order, and I'm like, oh,
am mine a little.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Bit of a mess.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, you know, like I'm definitely not retiring at fifty
five unless the lottery fairy comes knocking on my door.
But so there comes to shame with that, and it's
like the idea of having to then unpack all of
the why like why is he in this position and
why am I in this one? And there's a million reasons.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
It's so interesting to hear you talk because it's just
like we were talking about last week about everyone is
on their own journey, right, we all need to make
the life that we're for us, and this is no
different than that because you could easily argue, like listening
to you, I'm like, those are just two different types
of lives, like not there's not necessarily like one right
(25:13):
or wrong in that because you've had all these experiences
that he probably hadn't had and like visited all these places,
and some might say they value that more more. Yeah,
you know, so it's like tit for tat like half
a dozen? What can't you sick seven? As the kids say,
you know, I still don't even really know what that means. Well,
(25:37):
it's just like it's the same thing as I would
say with the kids. I do believe we have created
this like one size fits all conversation about money that
just isn't gonna work because we're all so individual and
different and we have different personalities and mindsets and jobs.
And I was saying to you earlier, like we're both creatives.
I feel like a lot of creatives would identify with this,
(25:59):
Like we're a little bit more like late bloomer ish
if you're looking at like a timeline than some people
who like your ex, who was more of a nine
to five corporate type guy. And it's just like that's fine.
There's no like the timeline is made up, that's not real. Like,
of course you want to have goals and you want
to have like you want to take care of yourself,
(26:19):
but there shouldn't be shame attached to it. Ever. I
don't think it's more like do you want to make
changes in your life?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Then?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Like did that bring up, hey, I want to start
saving more, or or you know, I want to do
better about planning for retirement, or did it just make
you want to go travel more? I don't know, like
only yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Mean honestly, I do think there was I was a
little inspired to like start to save a little bit
better and consider, you know, how I was spending my money.
I don't think it got to any of my whys,
you know, like sure, right, it just was eye opening
in some ways and it just shows that again everyone,
we're all on different paths and but that that is
(26:58):
scary though when you're in a relationship, if there is
a big sort of if there is a valley between
you guys financially, it can make or break a relationship too,
because especially if you're going down the path towards marriage,
where finances will start to become very gray and you're
taking on whatever someone else has right, and there can
(27:18):
be the you know, it makes for a very uncomfortable conversation,
like even when you start talking about people that have
plenty of money, you know, like the prenups of it all.
Like I can't imagine being in a position where you
have to tell someone that you are like you are
my favorite person on earth. I want to marry you.
I want to be with you for the rest of
my life. But if something goes wrong, you ain't getting
(27:38):
my money, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
It's like it's a.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Really like it is a double edged sword, like what
do you believe? You know, Like if you're on the
receiving end of that, you're like, wait a minute, do
you love me or do you love your money?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
But I mean but I also understand it to because
there's that I.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Have worked really hard for it. You don't know what's
going to happen in life, or it's.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Family and you've got your mom in your ear being
like you better not give them all the family money away, right, Yeah,
So money makes people do weird shits.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Money. It's a hard one and it's a hard conversation,
like you mentioned earlier, like it's a hard topic. We
didn't really talk about it growing up either. It's just
like I do think people are getting more open about
all conversations now, like in general, and money being one
of them. But like our parents didn't come from a
world where you talk about money. That wasn't discussed, you know,
and it's that's kind of it wasn't even just my parents,
(28:30):
it was everyone around me. It was just sort of like, oh,
you just don't like hush hush about it, and it's like, yeah, no,
we needed just like sex, like these are parts of
our lives and we are living a human experience right now,
so like we need to talk about these things and
we need.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
To comes from that, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Like the secret of it.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Well, also to.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
On your podcast wednesday, it was mentioned that, you know,
women used to not be able to get loans from
the bank. They could get credit cards until nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Every time I hear that, because I like forget, but
when you hear it, I mean I was born in
eighty two, Like yeah, right after that, that's wild.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
So you know women like it was, it was probably
very strict at a certain point, Like we don't talk
about money like that's what men were saying to women
because the men were controlling all of the money anyway,
so they didn't want the women to know what they
had or didn't have, which, you know, maybe in several
generations the conversation will be very different and people will
(29:32):
be able to talk about money, you know, more openly
and not I don't mean like I don't need to
know all your money secrets, but talk about it in
a way that is helps people have a more like
honest relationship with it. Because to me, what I walked
away from with my parents and the way that my
mom still talks about money.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Is like their shame on both sides.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Like I know that my mom is a penny pincher
because my us said things about like I solve this
much in our checking account, and I was like, Claudia,
we got to put this in a mutual account blah blah.
So I know that she's like really good at saving,
but she also wants to believe that she is, you know,
one paycheck away from like being.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Destitute financial rule, and she.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Casts this like evilness toward people that have money, like
there's a jealous there's a rage in there that comes
along with that, like she's just jealous of it and
but says it in a way like she doesn't care
about money. But I'm like, bitch, it's all you talk about.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, you know. I used to have more of those
mentalities of just kind of like what you said earlier,
thinking people that had tons of money, like what an
easy life, you know whatever, And then because of our job,
like you said earlier, I'm around people with like boatloads
of money and some are really happy and some are not.
And it does actually in some ways create all these
(30:57):
other problems that if you're just a regular Joshma and
you know, live a normal life or middle class or
whatever it is that you don't have like and not
to be like, oh, poor billionaires or things like that.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
But it's just like I think it is important for
us to say there's just where there's people, there's problems,
there's not like this, you know, just because I think
not having money stress is very helpful. And I know
money stress in my life has been one of a
big burdens as an adult of like of weight and
(31:31):
as you know, as a single girl and things like that.
But I do I have seen like, oh, it's not
going to actually just fix fix human problems, Like sure,
does it make it easier to go get help if
you need it or.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Go get anny.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
If you need you know, like things like that. Yes,
those things are definitely there, but it doesn't solve any
of the other problems that we talk about on this podcast.
For you, it's not like this quick fix. So that
was an interesting experience in my life that maybe your
mom hasn't fully had, but that helped me to kind
of let go of some of that. Well, they have
a bunch of money, life is he right? It's like, right,
(32:09):
they have a bunch of money and life is still life.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Well, I think the an interesting point to this whole
topic that just occurred to me is if you are
struggling financially, yeah, and that is your mentality, it makes
you think that money is going to solve the problems
rather than dealing with what's really going.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
On in your life the wise, like the why, about
the drivers, the emotions, all the things that Shawna talks about. Right, anyway,
I'm going to link that work she'd again in the
description of this podcast for you guys, it's free. I
just think it's like a really good starter and then
obviously I'll put the links to her books too. I'm
super pumped about her, like I just was really excited
(32:49):
to connect and maybe we'll even have her on to
do a deeper dive. But check all of that out.
Look at your emotions behind the way you spend money,
the whys, like the root causes everything we always talk
about on this podcast. Just do it with money.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
So with money.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And remember, send money to me on my Venmo for
my destitute mother. You know she said, damn broke, or
I'll just keep it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Oh lord, if.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I started giving my venmo instead of my Instagram, you
can follow me on venmo at chip dash doorsh There's.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
A guy I follow on Instagram who gives therapy advice.
He's like, here's six months, here's things I learned it
in three years of therapy. In five minutes, and then
at the end he goes, now, been on me five
dollars and it's this VIMO And I was like, the
actually's plating, actually brilliant, fucking money.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
So brilliant. I think you sent me that dude before.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, I probably have. All Right, Well, you guys go
check out Shauna again. I will put all of her
info inscription this podcast. You can always email me and
Chip at the Edge at velvet edge dot com. I
am also on Instagram at Velvet's Edge Chip.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I'm at Chip doorsh at Chip d O R S
C H.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
And our joint insta for the podcast is at Velvet
Edge podcast and we post there a lot, so go
check it all out. As you guys go into the
weekend and you're living on the edge, I hope you
always remember.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
To act casual.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Bye bye.
Well you're still in the office. I see severance, baby,
So what are we going to do about this? I
told you, I just think you need to start living
in this office as your background.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I mean, it doesn't matter what I change it to.
The like weird effects of my microphone disappearing is going
to do it.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
So if anyone has any experience in this, please email
us at the Edge at Velvetsige dot com. Chip is
so sad to be stuck in this office on his headide.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I cannot get the virtual background off, and I know
everyone's going to send me the obvious simple instructions and
what I can tell you, I've done a deep dive.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
They don't work.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
None of it works.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And I restarted my computer thinking that would do it,
and it didn't work. I deleted Zoom didn't work. So
Merchery is our cury is in retrograde. It actually is
a mercury.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Did you know that for real? It'd be funny because
it actually is. It was very serious retrograde.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
If this, if this shit stops after Mercury's and done
being in retrograde, I'm like full on in on astrology.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, well, Universe, you heard him here first go ahead
and teach him a lesson and let's get this thing
back working after mercury retrograde. Well, you've been traveling, I've
been traveling. We've had so much going on, and so
we're both a little bit like, look at us right now.
If you guys are watching on YouTube, apologies, Yeah, I
got our best look. This is not our best look,
(01:38):
but we are here. And I told you I was like,
I actually really loved the guests on Wednesdays. I don't
want to not do our do justice to our Friday
podcast about this because the topic itself and the way
she's delivering it, we're so helpful to me personally that
I didn't want to miss that. So if you guys
didn't listen yet to the Wednesday podcast, Shana Game, who
(02:00):
is a financial planner, a financial trauma specialist, and the
author of a new book, Unraveling Your Relationship with Money,
was on and I love her approach and it's like
no mistake obviously that we found each other because our astrology,
speaking of astrology, is very aligned and so we have
very similar like wirings. So I think it's like we
(02:21):
think the same way about things. And I said to you,
she is doing money and the Money Talks in a
way I've never heard anyone do it. Like I've had
financial people come on the podcast before. I've worked with
financial people myself, and it always kind of gets like
mumbo jumbo in my brain because they start with like
numbers and budgets and let's analyze this and that, and
(02:44):
it's so overwhelming. It's probably how you feel with astrology.
I'm like, wah wah wah wah. Right, yeah, my brain
just does not work that way. So what was interesting
to me about Shauna is she came on and she
was like, you got to unpack your like feelings, your
emotion and your trauma around money before you get to
budgets or how you spend or any sort of number
conversation or why yeah yeah, And I'm like, why haven't
(03:07):
I thought of that?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Because we do that, she said.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
She said, money is emotions, not numbers.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yes, money, because money is energy and people always say
that to me, but I've never really been able to
connect the dots on that. It just kind of like,
was this dumb, like duh moment to me because we
do that with every other topic on this podcast, like
we analyze the whys behind sex and the way we
move with that, the whyse behind relationships and why we
(03:36):
get in that. I mean the week before we were
talking about kids and fertility and you know, being on
your own journey and not trying to compare yourself to
other people. But for some reason, I haven't connected the
dots to the whys and the root causes of money
and spending and financial trauma and even put that together
that that was a real thing. So it was really
(03:56):
interesting to me to have her on the podcast. I
like downloaded this worksheet thing that she put in. I
put in the description of the podcast for you guys,
it's a free worksheet, And I'm doing it for myself
because I really want to like get to someone. I
want to be conscious with what I'm doing with my
money and how I'm moving with money and then how
I make money and say for the future and things
(04:18):
like that. But it hasn't worked for me to just
fully focus on the numbers. I'm really excited to like
dive into the whys behind it.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know, when I started thinking about like my relationship
with money, yeah, I mean the root of it is
how my mother.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Really always talked about it and Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I mean that's at the like the core of it,
and it's you know, I'm now that I'm an adult,
I still see the patterns of how she talks about
people and how they have money and those the haves
and have nots, And she always groups herself in the
like poor people thing, And we were like firmly middle class.
There was very little that we didn't have that we wanted,
but like she definitely grew up with some people that
(04:55):
had a lot more money. But you know, I also
think we now live in such an exp world where
it's about instant gratification and putting on a show. And
I mean she talks about the media of it all,
like we are served things all the time.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Ads spend, spend, spend.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And there is shame that comes along with not being
able to fit in with the crowd. And but I
also think it's so funny, like how many times have
you heard, like you'll meet this person that like literally
drives a raggedy ass car and they're like thrifting clothes
and they leave their room and you're like, you'll never
believe how much money that person you know, like, and
it's like, to me, that's the fucking goal in life
(05:31):
because they like are seemingly happy and the money isn't
driving it, Like they're living their life. And I know,
you know, some of those comforts come with not having
to ever worry about money. So if you have money,
if you were born into money, like, I think there
are different types of trauma, Like you know, you might
be a soul that doesn't want to care about money,
but it's all the family cares about. So you know,
(05:54):
I think that it's a really important distinction to be
to understand that, Like it doesn't matter if you're rich, poor,
or middle class. There is some sort of trauma around
money that affects the way that you see it. And
I don't know what the word for, like good trauma is.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Like what do you mean good trauma? I think trauma
is innately like.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Right, right, Like what is the opposite of trauma?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Like you can have a there are people that actually
have figured it out and have a good relationship with mine.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Well, I think is like using even the trauma that
you've been through and like turning your pain into purpose,
like finding power within it, evolving past it, all of
those things we try to do with any other trauma
that we have as well.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, that's kind of the point that I was making.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
But also, like I do think there are people that
like innately just had a healthy relationship with money, like
they didn't care about.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
It or whatever.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So it's like the opposite of being traumatized by it.
It's like the zero fux of it all, which is
obviously a lot easier when you have a safety net
and there is money.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
But I also think that there are plenty of people
that like.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Don't have a lot of money, and they have a
family that they love and a life that they love,
and they're not influenced by the external that makes them
feel like they need more and more and more. They
just are happy with life.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Well that's the point, right, is to evaluate your relationship
with money. So, like, trauma is such a big word,
and I think maybe not everybody, just like you're saying,
maybe not everybody relates to that. However, there are probably
some messages that you got in your childhood that defined
your relationship with money, whatever that looks like, whether that's
that could even be like a secure relationship with money
(07:29):
like you're describing, But it's like everything else, right, she said,
By the time we're seven we've basically formed our opinions
or we've formed the way that we're going to move
with money later in life because of what was happening
to us at that age. And that's the same as
why you pick the people you pick to date, or
why you work as hard as you do or not
(07:52):
as hard as you do. Like there's it's the same
thing as everything else we literally talk about on this podcast.
We just have not discussed it in terms of money
and how we spend and that literally, like Opra calls
on Maha moments, whatever, I felt like my brain was
going to pop off my body. It was that, you know,
however you want to say it. It was like a
(08:12):
moment of like, oh my god, why have I not
thought about this? Because it is true, like what you're
saying about your mom's relationship with money, it impacted the
way you think about money because he taught you that
it's an inherited belief, you know. And so now all
this is asking us to do is go, what do
I actually think about money? And like how am I
(08:34):
spending my money? How am I saving my money? Am
I getting paid enough? Like am I actually being compensated
for the work that I'm doing like all of these
kind of things that I think are driving probably more
than we think about, Like I know they are for me,
and they can be so tied to messages of shame
or unworthiness or things that you and I were talking
(08:55):
about before the podcast. But like, if you don't dive
into it, it's this unconscious driver, Whereas if you just
kind of sit back and ask yourself these questions, you
can be consciously working with it and building the life
you want with the money you want or don't want
or whatever it is, like whatever your journey is, you know, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I mean money.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I'll admit, like I have a very funny relationship with money.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Like, well, so talk let's talk about that. Let's maybe
just some of the things that we took away from
the podcast, because I know it definitely made me think
about a lot about my own self. Well, what were
some of your things?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I can find happiness kind of and in any situation,
whether it's like a boozy's just bougie situation or the
most dive bar like ratchet situation, Like I can find
fun anywhere. So I'm like one of those like interesting
people that it does. Like when I say that money
doesn't matter to me. Like that sounds so flippant, but
it doesn't. Like if I'm with people that I love
(09:54):
and I can laugh, then it's a great moment, you know.
But I also love to travel and I love I
love things, and I you know, my life is not cheap,
and I could I adjust, probably, you know, I could
spend a lot less money. But because I don't care
about money in the same way, I'm not like it
(10:16):
has good and bad impacts, Like I'm terrible at saving
because I've been really fortunate in my life that money
shows up in times when I need it, like in ways.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
That like you can't predict.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
But I also know that I work really hard and
I deserve to be paid well, and.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But I also don't know how to fight for it.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Like money is a very uncomfortable thing for me to
talk about because suddenly, if you ask for more money
that you don't get, like, is it a reflection on
your your like own self worth, like if you just
stand for it. And I'm constantly around people that make
a shit ton of money, and some of them are
(10:54):
really great about saving, some of them aren't aren't. So
it's like I I in my own life.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I see.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I'm able to see the spectrum of it all and
see like what life can be like if you if
you do money right, and what life can.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Be like if you don't.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
But I'm also I've got plenty of people around me
that like money is not like a ruling thing in
their life, Like they have enough of it to like
do what they want to do, but it's not what
drives them at all. And I just for me, it
is definitely not the driver of things. But I fear
not having it there. I just have like a and
(11:29):
I'm my family. I never like, yeah, I have a
scarcity mindset, and my family like we never like there
was never food insecurity. There was never any of those
moments where we were like, all right, we got to
batten down the hatches, like this is gonna be a
rough year. Like I never had a parent that was
like out of work suddenly, Like never never any of
(11:50):
those scares. It was more we don't talk about money.
We don't talk about like we just didn't talk about it.
But my mom talked about it a lot and still does.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
In her mind.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
She's a pulper compared to a lot of her friends,
you know, and she thinks she equates having a lot
of money to having an easier life, which is not true.
I know plenty of people that have lots of money
that are not happy, ug or struggle with a lot
of things in their life. And my mom would be like,
you know, money doesn't buy happiness, and I was like, well,
it can buy some happierness, you know, like you can
(12:22):
buy a little bit of it, but it doesn't make
It's not like the answer to everything, which is a
really tough thing to grapple with because the world that
we live in, yeah, I mean us Right now, we're
having a conversation about money, and I want to be
clear on this, Like my goal is not to tell
anybody to go out there and try and make as
much money as you can, like go get rich. Like
(12:44):
that is not the point of my conversation. The point
of my conversation, because I can only speak for myself,
is that, like I do think that life would be
easier with a healthier relationship to money, and I know
(13:06):
it's something that I need to work on. And listening
to is Shanna what's her name, Sha Shawna listening to Shauna, Like,
I want to like explore some of the like the
workbook stuff that she has, Like these things that seem
to like really open up people's minds, because I've tried
the financial planner thing too, and it just doesn't work
for me. Like it seems overwhelming. It seems like I'm
(13:28):
going to be giving away everything that I'm saving. Like
it I just can't wrap my head around it. But
what I know is that I need to change because
I'm not saving properly. And that can be humiliating because
I have a lot of friends that are really great
at saving, and my mom was actually really great at saving,
but I just didn't get that gene.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
It's such a catch twenty two though, because then it's
also like we're also taught the messages of well, you
can't take it with you. I think, you know, it's
like this weird mixed messages thing that happens in our society,
and like you mentioned, like we live in a capitalist society.
Like it's very much about consumerism and the haves and
the have nots and keeping up with the joneses and
(14:08):
what that means about you and what that means about
your success. And like, I just think that's the really
interesting piece about what Shauna is bringing to the conversation,
is is that really true? Or are we attaching these
mentalities to the way we spend, to the way we
like the things that we buy unconsciously and not actually
asking ourselves is this true for me? Is this what
(14:30):
I want? Does this make me happy? Am I doing
right by myself? Like as far as saving goes, like
you're talking about, and we just don't really ask those things,
you know. I think we ask like numbers questions, and
for people like you and me who are creatives, that
is like wait, what right? I was always bad at math,
Like I had to have a math tutor, and like
I'm a smart person, so it's just like my brain
(14:53):
just does not think that way, you know. So I
found it really interesting. One of the things that came
up for me during the podcast was like she's I
can't remember exactly what she said that made me go here,
but one of the things that I noticed that I
do is she had o because she had mentioned for
women it can be hormonal for us, like our spending,
and I never thought about that, but it makes so
(15:15):
much sense because I'm a creature of comfort for sure,
and like I want to be comfortable and so I'm
doing things usually in my life to you know, make
my house feel cozy, to make sure I'm doing things
that will be the most comfortable for me all in
all ways. Like that's just very important to me. It's
a high priority. And so like during certain times of
(15:37):
the month, you know, like I have lower energy, I
don't feel as good. So it's very easy for me
to want to buy things to fix that thing, you know,
that problem, which is fine, like she talked about that.
She was like, that would be fine if you know
that's a time of the month that you're probably going
to want to order out more or whatever it is.
(16:00):
It's like I can't set the money, Yeah, just start
setting aside the money. And I was like, oh, right,
Like we don't have to shame ourselves for what we
need or what makes us feel good in our lives
or what makes us happy. It's just more about being
conscious about that and honest with ourselves and then if
it is something that we want to keep doing, like
(16:21):
preparing ourselves for it. It's just being more responsible in
that way we were saying before the podcast, like that,
I mean, the creature of comfort thing is so real
for me, so it's certain times of month, and then
it's just like like if I'm sick or whatever. So
I do need to have like a separate fund for
these times where it's like, Okay, you know, when you're
super busy, you're not gonna want to cook, so you'll
(16:43):
probably postmates a lot or whatever. And that shit adds up.
Like when I go to the Quesses every year, I
get so like, oh my god, because I order groceries.
I do that, you know, it was just like that
stuff adds up way faster than I think it does. Yeah,
I'm doing it, yeah, but I don't. I don't want to.
You know. I've tried doing the thing. Like you said,
I could probably cut back on ways this amount of money.
(17:05):
And I have to just be honest with myself. I
am a creature of comfort. I'm always gonna want some
ease in certain times of the month, in certain periods
of my life, in certain phases. So I just need
to prepare for that and be honest and like true
to myself with it, like not try to be somebody
I'm not, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Totally Yeah, And I think sometimes the planning ahead even
will put up the guardrail. So It's like if you've
only put one hundred dollars in your like fun money
tank or whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
To call it, Like you're like, well, I only have
one hundred dollars, so it's.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Like, you know, I'm going to get a pizza that
will last me all weekend, you know. I mean, obviously
that's a different situation for you. But like I think
if you.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Have gluten and dairy umi, right.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
But like or you know, it's you order a big
old thing a chicken.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Little soup and one order versus, right.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
And that can create care of you.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
But if if you know that, like you've got the
reward system in place because you saved one hundred dollars
over here for this, right, then the shame and the
guilt of really willy nilly wasting money is out the
window exactly, and it can still have its limitations.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
So it checks both boxes.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You're still you're saving, you're doing the right thing, but
you're satisfying that like not having.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
To cook, right, Because what my spiral is is like
so say, for instance, like I'll go do my taxes
and then I'm looking at, oh my god, look at
this spending on this and that and that and because
it was these unconscious decisions that I was making in
the time to make myself more comfortable, it comes with shame,
and then it comes with this like beating myself up
(18:41):
of well, you better book another job, or you better
take on another client or whatever. So it's like this
spiral that I'll go in about that I need to
work harder to make more money to then blah blah blah,
you know, like and it's just this vicious hamster wheel
that I can get on, but that you know, that
hamster will leads me to exhaustion and then out, and
then I don't want to work at all. And then
it's like it's just like that doesn't that's probably not
(19:04):
the best solution either. That's just kind of what I've
always done is just go make more, go, do more, go,
you know whatever. And I'm at this age now where
I'm like my body is saying no, no, no, no no,
and so I need to listen. But also looking at
where does that scarcity even come from? Like where did
I develop that I won't have enough? And you know,
(19:27):
going back into childhood stuff for all of us. So
it's like it's like a both and situation it's like
how we're moving now looking at the whys and how
we got some of the we attached to some of
the narratives, and then being true to ourselves about like
what are your patterns and like are they things that
you should be working on? Are they just like part
of who you are? Like I'm never not going to
(19:47):
be a creature of comfort.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
That's just me Like.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Sales, yeah, jigs up.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, jigs up. You know it's funny.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
A bad habit of mine too, is I will think
of things like, you know, based on my salary. I
know what I make per per hour, you know, Okay,
so I'll think like, oh, you know, that's not that bad.
That's only like three hours of work. I'm gonna go
ahead and get it, you know what I mean, Like
rather than asking myself do I really want it?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Do I need it?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
This year, I've actually tried to be a lot better
about just willing illy buying things. But like, you know me,
like a costume idea comes up, I'm gonna order that ship.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Like the fact that the thing that you just brought
up is like the thing that's killing you about your
money is that you know me? If a costume mind comes,
that's the thing, Like.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I want to do it
exactly the way I want to do it and not
be this thing in my closet and do this blah
blah blah. Although I can be pretty like crafty, very crafty,
but I like, don't miss an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
To like, you're not going to miss fun. This is interesting.
I'm like, good God, a man that knows the way
to my heart. He sent me this whole breakdown of
each Enneagram number with money and the motivators behind like
how we spend, and I first of all loved it,
of course duh. But you're a type seven, so like
(21:17):
you love it SI, you're always looking for fun. That's
what I think of with sevens. They look for fun,
and that can make you a bit impulsive too, because
you don't it's like the fomo feeling, you know, like
you don't want to miss out. So that's something for
you to really consenter with money like mine was very
true too. Emotional spender values uniqueness like are you kidding?
(21:38):
Like yeah, home me story about myself, But emotional spender,
that's so true. So that's why certain times of the
month I am going to be like, oh, you deserve
to go shopping or you you know, like if I've
been working really hard, I come home and I'm like,
before even analyzing my money situation, i just want to
buy clothes or do something that's going to make me
feel good because I've been doing stuff for everyone else.
(22:00):
That's okay. Again, I think it's all okay. It's just
about being conscious of our patterns and the wise and
like is this really gonna be the like do you
really want that? Are you just exhausted and you need
to go take a warm bath and like do something
nice for yourself that, you know, like self care kind
of stuff versus like spending. Right, if I am probably
(22:21):
a very emotional spender, Like if I'm really down, I remember,
I'll never forget this story I was going through. That's
when I was canceling my wedding and my mom was
like coming in to like help me. It was the
day that it happened. I like called her and my
mom was like, do you I want to get on
a plane. I was like yes, you know, I'm like
a disaster. And then I was like I don't want
to say it really because I couldn't. I lived with
(22:42):
my partner and I was like, I can't stay at
this house. I had to get the hell out of there,
right And I said, I don't want to stay at
a shitty hotel though, like.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
This's so bad.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Even in my like darkest day, I was like, what
I will not do is like get cheated on, cancel
a wedding and go stay at a shitty and stay at
some shitty hotel. And my mom still brings it up
to this day because it's just that's so good, but
it's so me, Like it literally that sums me up.
So if I know that's me and I can accept
(23:13):
myself for who I am, I need to have a
fund for my emotional space. Yeah, you also brought it
up in terms of relationships with that, which I thought
was really really interesting to think about. And I think
that's probably a whole nother conversation. But what made you
even bring that goal.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
My last boyfriend, he was a couple of years older
than me, and his goal was like, I'm retiring by
fifty five, even if it means I have to have
a job at like Costco or something like something that
gets me out of the house, keeps me human, keeps
me interacting with people make you make a little bit
of money, and that's like your fun spending money, you know.
(23:58):
And he owned his house, said he lived in and
he had another like townhouse in town that he was
a rental property. And I think he had probably just
saved better, like he wasn't he didn't travel, He hadn't
traveled as much as me in life, and all the things,
you know, like that eat into my bank account. And
it's suddenly like I was like, didn't everyone have the
(24:20):
conversation because I don't know, like his finances sound like
everything was like perfectly in order, and I'm like, oh,
am mine a little.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Bit of a mess.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, you know, like I'm definitely not retiring at fifty
five unless the lottery fairy comes knocking on my door.
But so there comes to shame with that, and it's
like the idea of having to then unpack all of
the why like why is he in this position and
why am I in this one? And there's a million reasons.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
It's so interesting to hear you talk because it's just
like we were talking about last week about everyone is
on their own journey, right, we all need to make
the life that we're for us, and this is no
different than that because you could easily argue, like listening
to you, I'm like, those are just two different types
of lives, like not there's not necessarily like one right
(25:13):
or wrong in that because you've had all these experiences
that he probably hadn't had and like visited all these places,
and some might say they value that more more. Yeah,
you know, so it's like tit for tat like half
a dozen? What can't you sick seven? As the kids say,
you know, I still don't even really know what that means. Well,
(25:37):
it's just like it's the same thing as I would
say with the kids. I do believe we have created
this like one size fits all conversation about money that
just isn't gonna work because we're all so individual and
different and we have different personalities and mindsets and jobs.
And I was saying to you earlier, like we're both creatives.
I feel like a lot of creatives would identify with this,
(25:59):
Like we're a little bit more like late bloomer ish
if you're looking at like a timeline than some people
who like your ex, who was more of a nine
to five corporate type guy. And it's just like that's fine.
There's no like the timeline is made up, that's not real. Like,
of course you want to have goals and you want
to have like you want to take care of yourself,
(26:19):
but there shouldn't be shame attached to it. Ever. I
don't think it's more like do you want to make
changes in your life?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Then?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Like did that bring up, hey, I want to start
saving more, or or you know, I want to do
better about planning for retirement, or did it just make
you want to go travel more? I don't know, like
only yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Mean honestly, I do think there was I was a
little inspired to like start to save a little bit
better and consider, you know, how I was spending my money.
I don't think it got to any of my whys,
you know, like sure, right, it just was eye opening
in some ways and it just shows that again everyone,
we're all on different paths and but that that is
(26:58):
scary though when you're in a relationship, if there is
a big sort of if there is a valley between
you guys financially, it can make or break a relationship too,
because especially if you're going down the path towards marriage,
where finances will start to become very gray and you're
taking on whatever someone else has right, and there can
(27:18):
be the you know, it makes for a very uncomfortable conversation,
like even when you start talking about people that have
plenty of money, you know, like the prenups of it all.
Like I can't imagine being in a position where you
have to tell someone that you are like you are
my favorite person on earth. I want to marry you.
I want to be with you for the rest of
my life. But if something goes wrong, you ain't getting
(27:38):
my money, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
It's like it's a.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Really like it is a double edged sword, like what
do you believe? You know, Like if you're on the
receiving end of that, you're like, wait a minute, do
you love me or do you love your money?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
But I mean but I also understand it to because
there's that I.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Have worked really hard for it. You don't know what's
going to happen in life, or it's.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Family and you've got your mom in your ear being
like you better not give them all the family money away, right, Yeah,
So money makes people do weird shits.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Money. It's a hard one and it's a hard conversation,
like you mentioned earlier, like it's a hard topic. We
didn't really talk about it growing up either. It's just
like I do think people are getting more open about
all conversations now, like in general, and money being one
of them. But like our parents didn't come from a
world where you talk about money. That wasn't discussed, you know,
and it's that's kind of it wasn't even just my parents,
(28:30):
it was everyone around me. It was just sort of like, oh,
you just don't like hush hush about it, and it's like, yeah, no,
we needed just like sex, like these are parts of
our lives and we are living a human experience right now,
so like we need to talk about these things and
we need.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
To comes from that, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Like the secret of it.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Well, also to.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
On your podcast wednesday, it was mentioned that, you know,
women used to not be able to get loans from
the bank. They could get credit cards until nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Every time I hear that, because I like forget, but
when you hear it, I mean I was born in
eighty two, Like yeah, right after that, that's wild.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
So you know women like it was, it was probably
very strict at a certain point, Like we don't talk
about money like that's what men were saying to women
because the men were controlling all of the money anyway,
so they didn't want the women to know what they
had or didn't have, which, you know, maybe in several
generations the conversation will be very different and people will
(29:32):
be able to talk about money, you know, more openly
and not I don't mean like I don't need to
know all your money secrets, but talk about it in
a way that is helps people have a more like
honest relationship with it. Because to me, what I walked
away from with my parents and the way that my
mom still talks about money.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Is like their shame on both sides.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Like I know that my mom is a penny pincher
because my us said things about like I solve this
much in our checking account, and I was like, Claudia,
we got to put this in a mutual account blah blah.
So I know that she's like really good at saving,
but she also wants to believe that she is, you know,
one paycheck away from like being.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Destitute financial rule, and she.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Casts this like evilness toward people that have money, like
there's a jealous there's a rage in there that comes
along with that, like she's just jealous of it and
but says it in a way like she doesn't care
about money. But I'm like, bitch, it's all you talk about.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, you know. I used to have more of those
mentalities of just kind of like what you said earlier,
thinking people that had tons of money, like what an
easy life, you know whatever, And then because of our job,
like you said earlier, I'm around people with like boatloads
of money and some are really happy and some are not.
And it does actually in some ways create all these
(30:57):
other problems that if you're just a regular Joshma and
you know, live a normal life or middle class or
whatever it is that you don't have like and not
to be like, oh, poor billionaires or things like that.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
But it's just like I think it is important for
us to say there's just where there's people, there's problems,
there's not like this, you know, just because I think
not having money stress is very helpful. And I know
money stress in my life has been one of a
big burdens as an adult of like of weight and
(31:31):
as you know, as a single girl and things like that.
But I do I have seen like, oh, it's not
going to actually just fix fix human problems, Like sure,
does it make it easier to go get help if
you need it or.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Go get anny.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
If you need you know, like things like that. Yes,
those things are definitely there, but it doesn't solve any
of the other problems that we talk about on this podcast.
For you, it's not like this quick fix. So that
was an interesting experience in my life that maybe your
mom hasn't fully had, but that helped me to kind
of let go of some of that. Well, they have
a bunch of money, life is he right? It's like, right,
(32:09):
they have a bunch of money and life is still life.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Well, I think the an interesting point to this whole
topic that just occurred to me is if you are
struggling financially, yeah, and that is your mentality, it makes
you think that money is going to solve the problems
rather than dealing with what's really going.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
On in your life the wise, like the why, about
the drivers, the emotions, all the things that Shawna talks about. Right, anyway,
I'm going to link that work she'd again in the
description of this podcast for you guys, it's free. I
just think it's like a really good starter and then
obviously I'll put the links to her books too. I'm
super pumped about her, like I just was really excited
(32:49):
to connect and maybe we'll even have her on to
do a deeper dive. But check all of that out.
Look at your emotions behind the way you spend money,
the whys, like the root causes everything we always talk
about on this podcast. Just do it with money.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
So with money.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And remember, send money to me on my Venmo for
my destitute mother. You know she said, damn broke, or
I'll just keep it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Oh lord, if.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I started giving my venmo instead of my Instagram, you
can follow me on venmo at chip dash doorsh There's.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
A guy I follow on Instagram who gives therapy advice.
He's like, here's six months, here's things I learned it
in three years of therapy. In five minutes, and then
at the end he goes, now, been on me five
dollars and it's this VIMO And I was like, the
actually's plating, actually brilliant, fucking money.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
So brilliant. I think you sent me that dude before.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, I probably have. All Right, Well, you guys go
check out Shauna again. I will put all of her
info inscription this podcast. You can always email me and
Chip at the Edge at velvet edge dot com. I
am also on Instagram at Velvet's Edge Chip.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I'm at Chip doorsh at Chip d O R S
C H.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
And our joint insta for the podcast is at Velvet
Edge podcast and we post there a lot, so go
check it all out. As you guys go into the
weekend and you're living on the edge, I hope you
always remember.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
To act casual.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Bye bye.
Host
Kelly Henderson
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